Hi, Catherine, Hi Chelsea.
I am in parenting mode. I have so many things. I have so many children. I have the two Bopsy twins, Jesse and Katie, my two sixteen year old twins that I am the father too. And I now with Doug, we have a family of six again. Kelly and I have four children. Doug is making Bernice play, which is so cute.
I was gonna say, how is she adjusting?
She's not interested in Doug. She's not interested in much. But he needs to exercise, he needs to expend his energy because he is a fucking lunatic. But he's not driving me crazy. I love it because he's patty trained. The only really thing I can't deal with is not being housebroken, because I can't clean up urine effectively. I just get new carpets, and that is expensive after a while.
But he doesn't come in the bed because Bernice and I sleep together and he knows that that's not his and she'll go in on him if he tries to get in. And we were at the dog park the other day and there was a huge dog and Doug is running like Doug runs, and and then he ran on the dock and the lake is frozen, but not completely frozen because it's been a pretty lame winter. So I was like, oh my god, and I'm running to get him because if he falls in the lake, like
it's over. And I start running and a running, and all of a sudden, you know, he comes back to me.
Finally.
He's not great at listening, but I don't ever think any of my dogs will become great at listening. And Bernice had run after me, after him, and I turned around and she I haven't seen her run in years, and she was running towards me.
I mean, I ran to you.
Honestly, my heart just bursts open every time I look at her little face. She is the sweetest and she's good and so oh. So then there was this big dog and Dug is running back and forth the dog, and then the dog just kind of pounced on Bernice and she looked at him with like the biggest fuck you eyes I'd ever seen. She was like, get the fuck away from me, asshole. And I was like, that is my daughter, yea, that is my daughter. I raised her to be that have that attitude, and I love it to see it.
We love her just the way she is for having that attitude.
She's so cute. I mean, she is transitioning into the next part of her life, which is heaven, well, the next part of her afterlife. But it's okay because I'm just we're so bonded now.
Now.
She puts her paws on my bed when she wants me to pick her up because she can't jump, so she puts her paws on my bed frame.
And I mean every.
Time she does it, I'm like, oh God, come here. She's so sweet. I had no idea I was missing out on all this love with her because Bert stole me from her. Yeah, full body.
You know, some dogs are just bossy like that, like we are, little Lottie. She anytime I go to give Mimsy are older dog some love, she like busts in front of her.
She's very bossing.
Yeah, yeah, dog is doing that too. But I just tell Doug to fuck off that. Bernie is my number one. Bert is the past, Bernice is the present, and Doug is the future. Oh hell, lovely, that's what Jesse said yesterday. Yeah, because I was like yeah, and I was like very eloquist sort of Okay, So today we have a very exciting guest. She's a very old friend of mine, and she wrote.
A new book.
Her book is called Think You'll Be Happy, Moving through Grief with grit, grace, and gratitude. Her next project is six Triple Eight, the true story of a black, all female battalion in World War Two, starring Kerrie Washington, coming to Netflix this year. So welcome to the podcast, Nicole a Vant.
Thank you. I'm happy to be here.
Very happy to have you because you wrote a very beautiful book. Among other other things that you've accomplished in your life, which are many. Recently, you published a beautiful book called Think You'll Be Happy, which is about grief and specifically your own grief related to your mother dying very unexpectedly in recent years. So I want to talk to you about a how did you feel that you were ready to even write a book about something like that so soon after the injury.
So I was already writing a book after I had done a documentary on my father called The Black Godfather, and the publisher at the time kept saying, you should pick the themes of the Black Godfather and maybe we can turn this into a book, which I thought was a great idea. So we picked the themes that my parents kind of live by, which were grit and grace
and gratitude. Those were like the through line themes. And then my mom tragically dies and she's killed, and I said, immediately to your point, how the fuck am I going to write a book? How am I going to put this book out on grit, grace and gratitude. It doesn't feel right and I don't feel like writing, by the way, I don't feel like finishing. But my father came to live with me.
After your mother was killed.
After my mother was killed, my father came to live with me, and he knew I was writing a book, and he kept saying, where's a book? And I said, Dad, one thing at a time. Here mom was just killed. And he said, but you have to write about Jackie. You can't stop writing. You can't let this man take away your life, my life, And I said, okay, but
you know he's of that generation. And it wasn't like immediately, but he was saying, I think it would help heal you, and I think it's going to help heal your heart because he saw that I was just shattered. We were all shattered. And so I kept writing. And then her last text to me, the last words happened to be think you'll be happy, And I thought, you know, of course she left me would think you'll be happy. Of course she did. So that's how it came to be.
And it was very cathartic and hard, but it definitely helped me heal to the point where I could sit and talk to you for sure, Like I don't know if I didn't put the book out, if I could talk about it the way I'm talking about it.
Yeah, I think you look at grief. First of all, you don't expect things like this to happen in your life. For our listeners who are not yet familiar with the book, and Nicole's mother was murdered in her own house by a burglar or it was a burglary, and presumably she surprised him and she was eighty one years old, is that right?
One?
Yeah, And I think the opening of the book, I think really resonated with me because in the face of grief and in the face of terror and all of the nightmare things that can happen and do happen in everyone's life, at some point, you were able to get that call in the middle of the night from your husband's ed and get up and use all of the tools that your mother had blessed you with your entire life to face the reality of what needed to be
done instead of freezing or ineptitude paralysis. And I love when you talk about getting up, feeding the dogs, making sure they got their food, and letting them out, and then going to the hospital, right.
You know, it's interesting. I love that you love that part because a lot of people are like, how could you even think of feeding the dogs? But they're seriously looking at me, and I think when you're in a state of shock, it's still to your point. You know, my mom always had to saying of you can't make believe it didn't happen. Whatever it was. She would always say, you can't make believe that it didn't happen. You have
to face the reality. And again, at that moment, moment, they didn't tell me if she was shot in the hand, if it was like she found. No one told me there was a burglary, No one told me anything. Get to the hospital. Your mom's in surgery. So that's why I was able to, Okay, what would mom do? I'm looking at these two helpless animals, not even knowing when I'm ever going to come home or what's going on.
I ran downstairs, fed them and I left, and I was in that mode of whatever is happening, I need to trust somehow that I'm going to get through this and I'm gonna be okay, Like I needed to decide to be able to overcome whatever was going to face me. I'm going to overcome this. Didn't mean it was going to be easy. Didn't mean I was sugarcoating it like, oh, I'll be fine, but it was Life is not stopping for me, Life is not stopping for my family. Life
doesn't stop for anybody. So I wanted to be as courageous as possible and as sane as possible to take care of whatever was going to happen, especially knowing that my ninety one year old father was at the hospital waiting.
I think, in the face of this, it's always a miracle how we are able to level up, and I don't know that everybody feels as able to do that. I think there is a level of strength, and we have this inner reservoir of strength that we talk about on the podcast all the time that when it's time, it's like a soul elevation. We have to step up to the plate because now we're in charge of a situation.
It's not a desirable situation. It's horrible, not only for you, but for you know, all of the thousands of people whose lives she's touched. So I think it's interesting to discuss how you have that strength and how you knew to tap into that strength, because you talk in the book a lot about your mother kind of infecting you with the idea throughout your childhood that you have to see the best in everybody, and you have to do
your best, and you have to be well rounded. And so let's talk a little bit about that impact that she had on you, because I know from my mother dying, the lessons she gave me became louder and louder the longer she was gone.
One hundred percent. I think it's you know, my mom was a realist, and my mom would always say she lived from an eternal perspective. So my mom's whole point is, listen, life is great and it's also tough. Life is beautiful and it's also messy. You know, she never sugarcoated life for me, and her whole point to me growing up was part of the circle of life that everyone talks about. No one wants to talk about the other part of the circle, which is death, and it is coming and
you don't know when and you don't know how. No no one does. And you know, my dad, you know, always talked about the dash. What are you going to do with your dash? She would always say, you come in with a number and you end with a number. It's the in between the numbers that make the difference in everyone's life. And everyone has to decide, gets to decide. I should say, also, how are you going to show up? How do you want to show up? Who do you
want to be in that moment? And my mom, my mom said, you know, my mom knew from a very young age. She's like, you know, she loved history so much, Chelsea, to the point where she was like, so many people sacrificed of all colors, of all religions, people have sacrificed for years and years for us, for Americans especially, to be where we were at that time. She's like, so
this is not a joke. You know, people in my dad's family hit in the face, you know, bricks thrown at them, sitting in a sit in you know, marching for civil rights. My Auntie's punched in the face by mobs of people chased in the streets. Like my mom always wanted me to remember, you stand on very strong shoulders and tall shoulders. And Andrew Goodman, by the way, you know, young Jewish man in New York when he went to Mississippi and he was murdered by the klan.
My mom said she and her friends were traumatized by that. She didn't know Andrew, she didn't need to know Andrew. She didn't need to know James, she needs to know Michael. She didn't need to know those three. But what she did know was people are actually going out and dying for other people to have civil rights. That people are going out and sacrificing their lives. So the least we can do is show up and live, you know. That was her whole motto was show up and live this
life that we've been given. And freedom isn't easy and you shouldn't take it for granted. So my mom raised me with this idea of use your freedom wisely, use the freedom that you've been given. By the way, if you choose not to do shit with your life, yeah, you're lucky. Someone died for you to have that choice too, you know, And she said, and I would hate to see you waste your life. I would hate to see
you not appreciate the blessings that you've been bestowed. So that I think, and to your point about this strength and this reservoir of strength, I think it's like the story of the mom pulling out a child from under a car. It's that same strength that we all read about of some accident and the mother runs out and she's able to overturn a car. It's an energy and a soul force that comes through I think, especially women,
that it's there. But I think my mom, to your point, infecting me with it and filling me up with this sense of being tenacious and grateful and responsible definitely gave me the energy to show up at the hospital that morning and get the news that she didn't make it through surgery.
Yeah.
You talk about energy in the book, and you talk about energy being joy Yeah. Yeah, so, And I love that because that is true, because it is a you know, we're always it's output. It's like, do you want to be joyful? Do you want to spread joy? Do you want to illuminate people around you? You know what kind of energy field are you leaving when you leave a situation? And I think that energy and joy are just like
so beautifully interwoven. And I haven't ever read about it the way you wrote about it in the book.
Oh Thank You. I think that we are all towers of energy, and we can put out whatever we decide. So if we want to put out joy, if you want to put out light, if you want to put out you know, laughter, all of it go ahead. If you want to put out misery and you want to be a victim, and you want to put out negativity, And everyone has free will. And I'm a big believer in when when when you are grateful for everything you have,
And I'm talking everything that you know. You know, our kids, Tony and Sarah, and every day I was.
I diviginized her son, her steps on Tony. I just want all of our listeners to know that I mounted him one night at Ted Nichole's house and he became a man after that. So i'd i'd like to go on the record with that, thank you.
I would remind them even the fact that you're turning on the water, we have indoor plumbing, which again my dad didn't have indoor plumbing, heat, anything, food, nothing like zero, didn't have a pot to pisson. So I think when you are joyous and grateful and positive for everything in your life, the fact that you could walk and talk here and see anything, you have children, dogs, at all
of it. The more I noticed, the more I'll tell you this, when I don't focus on what I'm grateful for, Chelsea, and I don't become on purpose about my energy, it's all over the place, and it's very easy to become negative if you're not focused on what you want to put out.
Absolutely, I think also to being grateful for the things that don't go well, so because that is that there's always a lesson in everything, even in as horrible as it sounds. In death, the acceptance of someone moving on and the idea which is so comforting, you know. And you talk about religion a lot, and you quote a lot of verses from different books in the Bible, and I think it's religion is such a good tool for death, right, It's a good tool for a plethora of things, but
for death specifically. Yeah, it can give you hope in the emptiness you know that you feel because when you're knowledgeable and in touch with the idea that yes they're not physically here, but no one is ever really gone.
Energy doesn't ever die. That our mothers and whomever we love that we've lost, it's an honor to have been with them and spend that time with them, and they have injected that energy, injected and infected in the most positive way into us, and it is our light to carry on and shine on for them and in honor of them.
Yes, in honor of them. That is what helped me get through this the most, which is it's like an energetic baton. The batons are passed, the energy is passed on to us. And what am I gonna do with my baton? What am I going to do? Of course I want to carry on my mother's legacy. Of course I want to share her life and her lessons and her love. But to your point, that's what it is. And I think the greatest way to honor people who are no longer with us physically is to make the
best out of our lives. I know my mom is really happy right now watching a because she, you know, love being the center of attention. So believe me, my mom loves the positive attention she's getting, but in the best way, because I know she feels Oh thank god, none of this went to waste, you know, like I put a lot of good out into the universe. And yes, something tragic happens, and it was in three minutes, like I was struck by lightning. But look at the good
and the ripple effect of the goodness. I can't tell you the letters and the notes Chelsea that I received from people around the world about how much me sharing my story has helped them get up, not be you know, I had one guy who at me, he goes, I haven't even you know, really gone out of my house almost for two years. I mean, just so crippled by grief to the point where you can't even function. And
I think our parents bring us here. We come through them, our mothers, we come through them, and it's our job to really to Our job is to live the failures in the quote unquote bad things that happen to all of us, or any negativity that comes in, they are also gifts. I agree with you. When the doors closed, Yeah, sometimes you know, sometimes that relationship is not going to work. Great, take the lesson and the blessing and move the fuck on.
And be grateful it's over. Be great, yeah, and show grace, like if a relationship ends, be graceful about it, that's okay. Like not everyone is meant to be here your entire life.
That's not Ever. My mom used to say, everyone has to get off the train. At some point. Some people are going to ask you to get off their train. We're going to ask people to get off your train. But do it gracefully to your point and be grateful for whatever, take whatever lesson and whatever blessing. And for me, for example, I had to learn a lesson. I got at a very bad relationship, very emotionally abusive a long
time ago. And the greatest lesson was what the hell would I think that I'm worthy of just that shit? Thank you very much for showing me that I'm actually worth something. What your pain gave me, you know it. It was a lot of grief and a lot of questioning myself, but I had to. I used to ask myself, like, you know, am why am I attracting these kind of people into my life? And then I switched the question and I asked myself, now, why am I attracted to
this type of person? What in me is attracted to this kind of behavior, so what always comes back to me? I'm like, no, this energy doesn't align with me. So I'm gonna and I still grieve about it. I still grieved about it, and then I got Ted. Do you know what I mean? I would have never met Ted and I would have never accepted Ted and loved him the way I do had I not gone through people who were completely opposite of Ted.
Right, So let me pivot a little bit because I know your father recently passed away, Clarence Avont, who was a very well known music mogul. So how do you square that? Because I know I bumped it to you. We kind of briefly touched upon it about you know, your dad and your mom being back together, which is the way I like to look at things. And how did how did this impact you knowing that you were losing him but he was returning to her.
You know, Chelsea, I every single day I prayed that he would have the most peaceful transition because I thought, I don't know if I can handle another tread. You know,
let's he's here with me. I pray it's as peaceful as possible, which it was, thank God, and the fact that he was able to pass away in our home, which was which became his home, but he was surrounded by his things and you know, close family members, best friends were able to come by and kind of say their goodbyes as he was just slowly, quietly fading away. Cancer didn't take it. Nothing took him. It's like it just it was old age and time to go was twenty months after my mom and he was so trying
to hang on about the book. He's like, when's the book coming out? And he read the galleys, like I need, I need to watch the book, and I knew. I just knew. I was like, I know he's going to go before the book, but at least he read it. He read the galley and I have to say it was It gave me peace knowing that it was peaceful, quiet, beautiful at home and that he was going to be with my mom energetically they would be reconnected, and that gave me. That actually gave me joy. And I was
so proud of his soul. That's what I kept telling him as he was leaving. I go, look at the fucking life that you've lived. This is thirty lifetimes in one life. You had no rights, you had no family, you had nothing. You were on your own since you were fifteen. And look what you did with your energy, and look at the lives that you've changed. And I was so happy that I was able to tell him that. Yeah.
You know, it's interesting because you know, when you have someone die so tragically and in such a traumatizing way as your mother did, it's almost like the next death you're so ready for it. It's like it's almost like when my brother died on unexpectedly tragically, it was like anything after that was okay. Like my mom dying, I was like, I'll help you. I remember showing up to the hospital and my mom saw me come in and was like, thank god you're here. I just want to die. Please.
They're trying to keep me alive. I know you'll help me die. And I was like, no problem, I got you, like I will, I will help you. And I was like, I remember the contrast of the two things. I was like, I could take.
Anything, anything on one hundred percent. I can deal with anything. Right. The dad, you know, before he passed away in our home, he had had a stroke. I'm the one who found him. I found him and I was like, bringing up, I can handle this because I've already been through the worst freaking thing ever. And then I made a decision, Oh Dad, you know what. I don't know how long you have after this, but I promise you, I'm going to help you make the greatest transition ever. I promise you. I'm
not leaving your side. I'm going to make you comfortable. Whatever for drugs they give you and they allow me to give you, bring it on, like this is gonna be painless for you, and I'm gonna walk you. I'm gonna walk you over, you know. And it was Ted who actually I left the room and I knew he was leaving, and I it was so heavy for me. It was that death rattle. I don't know if you heard that, but it was this horrible uff that's the worst, and it's kept scaring me. And I knew I was
making my dad anxious. And Ted freaking stepped in and I said, Okay, I have a feeling he's going and I have said everything, and you need to have your time with him. And Ted freakin walked, took him to the other side, held his hand, you know, did whatever he needed to do in the room, He goes, I don't know every old Catholic prayer that I knew as
a child kept coming out of my mouth. But you know what was great is that they had that moment and my dad went out listening to Frank Sinatra, Duke Ellington, Louie Armstrong, all the music that he brought into the world, Bill Withers. We just we sent him out in the best way.
Okay, on that note, we're going to take a break. We're going to come back and we're going to talk to some callers. Nicole, Okay, okay, all right, and we're back.
We're back.
Our first caller is Akronefa.
And she related to Aquafina. She is not, but she's real cute.
She's real cute.
Let me just preface this with she wrote in about a year after her mom had died, and at that time she was struggling with a lot of daily stuff like making sure that she was getting exercise and feeding herself right and all that kind of stuff. So she says she's back on track with that, but wrote in about finding her creative side again. You're Chelsea. I'm thirty three years old, and in September of twenty twenty one. After just a three week battle with pancreatic cancer, my
dear world of a mother passed away. It's been over two years and I have stabilized myself. I have a full time job in higher ed and I go to therapy weekly and all my essential physical needs are met. However, I feel like my spirit is unrecognizable from what it was before. I'm a musician. I play the flute, piano, bass, guitar,
produce and write songs. Ever since my mom passed, I haven't been able to write any songs, and instead of practicing music, I found myself disassociating, wasting time binging YouTube videos. Sometimes I feel like I can create music, but if I can't share it with my mom and watch her eyes light up and make her proud, what's the point. I feel a call to live out my dream to create music, but I don't know how to push past the immense grief. Any words of wisdom on how to
get back to myself? Akronefa hikati hi.
Hi.
This is our special guest, Nicole a Vant, and we both have mothers that have passed away. So you're talking to the right group of people.
Yeah, I know, and I think we're all pisces.
Oh yeah, fun. When's your birthday?
March third?
Oh?
Perfect, Nicole, when's yours March six? Okay, great, aren't you yes? February A. Yeah, Well, I'm so sorry that you lost your mother, and we both know what that feels like.
It's a big, big void. But I'm going to start by saying that you have to know and believe and feel, like when you close your eyes and you center yourself and you really just let yourself feel, you're gonna know that your mother is still with you, and you're postponing all the joyfulness that you can experience knowing that she is with you, sharing that like if you're not happy, she's not happy, and all of this, Like you know, my mother will never hear this music. Yes, your mother
will hear this music. You have to believe that your mother is with you and watching you, because none of our mothers are just off and running up in heaven like you know, having a keger. They're here to guide us. Like I truly believe in This wasn't my belief system for a very long time, but I've seen proof of it in my life and in other people's lives. They are there, to guide us once they leave us. Your mother is never going to abandon you. You know, they
couldn't if they wanted to. It's just impossibly, like physiologically, there's too strong of a bond. And so I really think you need to turn that thought process just on its head and really just every morning, wake up and say to your mother, Okay, this is what we're doing today. Like act like she is with you every single moment, and you're going to start to feel that, and you need to believe that because that's what's going to motivate you.
She would never want you just wasting away and to be mourning for this long and to just be depressed and scrolling through YouTube. That's not what she wants for you.
I agree with Chelsea. I would say that your mom. You know, sometimes I had to ask. I had to pretend as if my mom was sitting next to me, and I would say, Okay, what do you want from me today? What do you want from me? And you'll get it immediately. Your mom, of course, she gave you life, and she gave you a beautiful energy to live, and you're obviously a creative person. Your job or your next step is to like Chelsea said, accept what it is, but also, you know, decide to honor your mom. Decide
to honor her, decide to what made her happy. By the way, I'm just asking you what did make her happy besides your mean Like for me, for example, I had to think about, Okay, one of the movies my mom loved watching, and I started watching those movies. What's the music? Oh, she loved Johnny Mathis, she loved Lionel Ritchie. So I would play it over and over and over
again just to kind of feel her energy. And I think Chelsea's right, like the thing that your mom wants, you can't see her physically, but energetically she is always with you. And I know for myself, the greatest gift I could have can give my mom every day is to live my life to the fullest that I can and be as creative as possible and joyous as possible. And it doesn't mean it's easy. It's not, but you do have to make the decision. Once you make the decision,
your energy follows your decision. Oh remember that your energy follows whatever decision you're going to make. If you want to be miserable, your energy says Okay, if you want to feel like a victim, your energy will say okay. But if you say I want to be victorious, I want to honor my mom. I don't know how, but I want it, the energy will follow.
And Pisces have big energy. Yes, yes, So you have to be very mindful about your energy because when it's negative, it's real negative, and when it's positive, it's real positive.
Yeah.
Yeah, Nikicole.
You talk in your book about getting grounded before having to do something that's difficult or you know, as you were going through this process, a couple of different friends pointed out, like, you need to get grounded right now at different points. Can you talk a little bit about that and what's specifically to do to ground yourself.
Yeah, that's a great point. One thing that I did was my friend walk me out on the grass, you know, take off your shoes, get to any piece of grass anywhere. It doesn't have to be at your house anywhere, and just walk in the park. But it helps you feel grounded because when you're connected to nature and when you're connected to the earth, and if you're not outside, meditate, you know, ground yourself. Sit. There's a million gazillion guided
meditations that are free everywhere. I mean, the access we all have to help and energy and grounding ourselves is there sometimes, you know, for me, I get in the bathtub, I want to meditate, I want to pray. I want to ask for you know, light and love and purpose or whatever it is to put my intention out. There were days where I thought, I don't even want to get out of bed. I don't want to function, I don't want to look at anybody. I want to scroll
on Instagram. But I'm choosing and deciding to bring in a different energy and call on something bigger than you. By the way, because believe me, life is much bigger than all of us. But you have to work with the energy of the universe and it's free, but you have to work with it and your music. If you're a musician, that means you already worked with it.
Yeah, you, and you didn't answer. I don't think we got to get an answer to your question about what did your mom really enjoy? Like what made her happy?
She loved gardening, and it's okay that you still do. She was a dancer and used to teach African dance classes. She actually was also a musician and toured with a Ghanian artist when she was younger, so she always was obviously very supportive of my music. I did I say she liked to cook. She loved to cook, and she was always very curious about foods from other countries, especially
African foods from other countries in Africa. And cooking is actually something that I've just been able to get back into in terms of taking care of myself and because it was something that we really like to do together and share and compare recipes. I'm so sorry I didn't realize.
No, don't apologize, it's okay. Yeah, these are all Listen, everything you're saying is a gift. You have all of these gifts from your mother that you can honor her with. You can cook with her, and you can cook with her in mind, and the music that you're making is with her in mind, something that she would love to dance to, something that she would love to sing along to. All you have to do is reframe the way that
you're looking at this death. You know, instead of it being a void, you can fill that void up with all of these things that you mentioned, between gardening and cooking and traveling and different African cuisine, all of This is such a gift that she's given you, and now it's your turn to show her and honor her with all of those things. And you're gonna be okay, you know what I mean. You're here because you're you've gotten yourself this far. You're here because of you. Yeah, and
you're not alone. So many people, I mean almost you know, everyone at a certain time in their life, almost everybody has a parent die, and so that has to give you some sort of comfort to know that this you're surviving, right, and you're going to get through it, and it's going to get easier and better for you.
Yeah, you're going through your human experience. And I'm sorry that you're in so much pain. But to Chelsea's point, to go out and garden with your mom and cook with your mom, and dance with your mom and making music with your mom. It helps fill that emptiness that you're feeling. And Chelsea's right, it does get easier. But I believe me, I feel your pain right now. I'm watching you and I feel it and I understand it and don't feel bad about it either. By the way,
move through your grief, but just move through it. That's the only way out.
Is through yes. And also you know, like when you find yourself, I would say, in these moments where you feel like you're cruising the internet or you're doing something that isn't really stimulating, that's just kind of word. I would urge you to take that time recognize, Okay, this isn't a good use of my time, and then go do one of those activities that you shared with your mother. Use that time to reconnect with her. And also when you feel overwhelmed and you are emotional, sit down and
be that way. Sit down and I and once you sit with anything that you're going through, it will release and you'll give yourself ten minutes or thirty minutes, and you'll be surprised that once you really honor those feelings, they don't last forever. You know, they happen, it'll keep
coming up, but they don't last forever. So it's up to you to kind of just reframe your whole life in the way that you're operating around this grief and embrace it and also go towards your mother, like with all of these activities, and you're going to feel better and you're going to feel her presence. I promise you.
Thank you God bless thank you.
Take some time for yourself right now when we get off the line. It take some time and just be where you're at.
Okay, all right, Okay, sending you a lot of love, honey, Thank you.
I really appreciate it.
Yeah, bye bye.
You know, something that both of you said made me think. You know, we think of like when someone crosses over there in the Great Beyond or they're in heaven and it's way out there. But I think a lot of spiritual thinkers and how you to relate to your mother's is no, they're right here. And a lot of spiritual thinkers talk.
About the veil. You know, there's just a veil that's right here.
And it's even biblical like in the Bible to talk about the Kingdom of God is at hand, and some people interpret that to mean it's right here, heaven, whatever you want to call it is just beyond our vision basically, And you can talk to your loved one that has passed.
On, Nicole, do you feel like you do you feel this same presence of your mom that you do with your dad since he's passed on, because I don't feel my dad anywhere. Yeah, don't I think he's paying for all of his wrongdoings and is in some sort of purgatory used car dealership situation trying to figure out why it was such a fucking asshole. And that's but I never feel my father.
Ever interesting, I feel I feel them both. My mom came in a few times early and then it felt like she went away. But I started to feel her more in the music, like you know what I mean, or or like this certain hummingbird would just come at me every single day, and the dragonfly which I'm wearing one,
they would they're hovering around me all the time. And she and every piece of her stationary has a dragonfly, and her whole thing was a dragon And she used to say, that's what I'm gonna I'll always be something for you, and I asked her to be. I was very specific on everything. And my dad I feel differently in a different way and not as strong yet as my mom, but but I can. He's just started to come in more recently, and it's more of I could feel him because he's such a doer. Now what are
you doing next? What's what's the next thing? And what I'm like, Dad, just give me one minute, just there's a lot that's been going on, but it's so his energy of what's next, Let's go, let's go, keep going, like let's go. My mom is very graceful and gentle, and so I feel him differently. Someone will send me a quote like thanks mom, got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got it. Yeah yeah, that's funny.
Our next caller is James. He is in Ohio and recently had to move home after losing his sister. So he says, Dear Chelsea, I found your podcast a while back and have been listening to Dear Chelsea every day while I'm driving.
I love hearing your advice.
And would love to get your input on a situation I'm experiencing. Last year, I lost my sister suddenly when she was killed in a car crash. It was the most difficult loss I've ever experienced. It got to a point where I wasn't eating or sleeping, and if I had any sort of joy, it was immediately followed by immense guilt. After a couple months of this, I ended up seeing a grief specialized therapist and it has been
tremendously helpful. My mother asked me to move home to help her and my other sister take care of my deceased sister's kids. I wanted to help out. So here I am, and I'm struggling. I've got a new job here, but it's not what I'm used to and it's harder to get by. Moreover, I'm afraid that by coming back to my small town in Ohio, I'll get trapped. Will I stay for one year?
Two ten?
I want to put my family first, but I don't want to lose myself and my own endeavors in the process.
James, Wow, Hi Jane, Hi James, this is n call our special guests today.
Wow.
That's a huge responsibility.
Yeah, no, it's it's it's hard, but I just I feel like anyone would do the same in my situation.
Yes, I mean, yeah, there's kids, so it's like how.
Old are they and how and how many are there?
Well, to give you, like some background on my family, I have a twin sister.
She has two kids that are seven and six.
And then I had my older sister, she had a six year old, five year old, four year old, and then she was also pregnant at the time.
And so your twin sister is still with you, where does she live?
Yes, she lives in the town I'm in now, So we're all together now good?
And you are this primary caretaker or are you guys collectively taking care?
No?
So right now, right now, my mom is the primary caretaker. The dad is not around like at all, maybe a day out of the month, so it's primarily my mom. I'm like, I'm kind of here as like I'll take them to like appointments, or I'll pick them up from school if they need to be picked up. I try to do like fun like uncle things when I can. But my mom is the primary caretaker right now.
And so are you? How are the kids mentally and emotionally right now? How long ago did this happen?
This is November of twenty twenty two, so over a year ago. I mean they're all still so young. They really don't understand. They like bring it up so nonchalantly though, like that they don't have a mom.
I mean, it sounds like you would benefit from having a therapist. Now. It's a big responsibility. What you're doing. It is a big gift that you have been given, even though it may not feel like one. You're giving a gift to your sister, You're giving a gift to these children, and you're gifting your mother and your other sister by chipping in. And there really is nothing more important than showing up in a time like this for
your family. And it doesn't have to be forever. And you may, you know, you may want it to be at some point, you may change your mind from where you are right now. But I would say what you're doing is so honorable. Remember this every you know, every morning when you wake up, you know that you are doing something so like a valor. It's just and there's nothing I don't think in the world that is more important than showing up for your family in a time
like this. So I understand that you don't want to you're not really that psyched about Is it that you don't really want to be staying in that town for very long? Is that how you're feeling.
Yeah, Like, as soon as I thin eighteen, I was like, I'm leaving a town. I'm doing my own thing.
I'm like, God, I'm wanted to travel, I want to like explore, I want to grow. I mean, there's nothing in this town other than my family, but there's no room for growth. It feels like in this town so that's I mean, that's why I always wanted to see where life can take me. But yeah, now that I'm back here, and like I mean, I'm just used some big cities and now like I'm looking like outside, and I see a field and I see another field and
there's just nothing. There's a deserted town right now. But I want to be here from my family.
But it's like how long, right, and how long has it been?
I've been here for about seven months now?
Okay, Well, I think you should give yourself some just time frame, you know what I mean to just and also be very vocal with your mother and discuss it with her, like what do you think a fair amount of time is? Because she doesn't want you to give your life away, And there's a way that you can move somewhere to a city that's close by that has more action and actually remain having like a presence at home with your niece and nephew and with your family.
And I think you know, and that's why it would be helpful for you to talk to someone too about what that timeframe is. What is a reasonable amount of time? Like is it another five months to make it a full year? Do you want it to be two years. I think you have to be very overly communicative instead of under communicative, because that way there's no surprises. You know, you can have you expressed your mother your desire to not stay here permanently.
I haven't.
She's retiring next year, so I was gonna stay until then and kind of like assess the situation then, like does she need me, does she want me here?
Do the kids? I mean, I'm I'm just trying to see what she wants, because I mean, you.
Should be talking to her about these things. You need to talk to her about it so that the conversation can grow and evolve so that you're not you know, it's then it's not a decision like I'm moving in a week, you know what I mean, It's no one could communicate enough. You know your feelings. You have every right to have your own life. You have every right like you're here at a very important time in everyone's lives,
and that is great. But you don't have to sacrifice your life for the you know, for all of it. You still have to make a contribution to your family.
My mom and my sister, my twin sister, are like sacrificing their lives.
So I just feel like it should be like an equal, like a people thing.
You were in a big city in the same state, correct, Yeah, so if you're close enough by, you know, I think one of the biggest things that someone who is in a primary caregiving role can have is a little bit of respite and a little bit of rest. Like your mom is in this primary caregiving role. So maybe it's not, hey, you're there all the time, but maybe it's, hey, one weekend a month, she gets to have the weekend off from the kids, and you have them come and stay with the fun uncle in the big city.
You know.
I know that's what my nieces and nephews love to do, is like, come stay with me for a weekend.
Yeah.
I was definitely going to reassess the situation, Like once my mom retires, I was going to like see, like I should maybe consider like moving away.
But I wanted to like address that once that happens.
I mean, I think you should do it. I don't think you have to do it today, but I think you should do it. I don't think you should wait until that. I think it's better everyone needs. It's better when everyone has the information. You know that you're thinking of to just share it with her, just even now. That's a great time to be like, Hey, I'm just
thinking this. I'm thinking maybe when you retire, I might move to a bigger city and still remain obviously a big role in these kids' lives and I can offer up, you know, taking them once a month, a week and a month or these are the things I'm thinking. Let me know what you're thinking, and then it becomes a conversation rather than an announcement. Nicole, what do you think now?
I agree completely, and I think that the more communication the better, so that there are no surprises. And I think that especially since it's your mom and it doesn't have to be today or tomorrow, but sooner than later. I agree with Chelsea. There's nothing better than anyone friend's family, anyone just showing up for people in need. It's the greatest human thing I think we can give to each other is to show up. That's what people want. And
your perspective, you know, even change your perspective. You're the hero in their life for right now. Doesn't mean that you have to be in this role forever, but right now, in this moment, I know that life throw you a curveball, and it sucked and it's painful, but you are their hero in the moment. You've been chosen in this moment to show up kind of with a cape or not and bring healing and bring restoration and bring a sense of stability because they're young and they need it. But
you also do have a life and you don't. You're looking like, am I going to have to sacrifice my needs and my wants and my desires for the rest of my life? And the answer is no. But there is a process, and I think that the sooner you all get on the same page probably the better for you.
But if you look at it as we've all been chosen for different things, and we don't know what life is going to throw at us, and we all have trials, and we all have tribulations, and we all have challenges, and then our job is to show up in whatever it gives us as the strongest person we can be physically, emotionally and spiritually. Our job is to just show up. As I mean, I'm telling you, when my mom was killed,
I had no idea what to do, but I chose. Okay, I didn't expect my ninety one year old father to move in with me. I didn't expect to become a.
Caregiver exactly, you know, seriously.
But I then created new habits for myself and just once I accepted, oh, okay, this is what life gave to me in this moment, and in this moment, I'm going to be the hero that is needed in the moment. Doesn't mean forever. And I'm a completely different situation. You have young children you're talking about. I had a ninety one year old, so I knew I was going to be sacrificing for hand in hand unch amount of time.
But you have and I like the idea of you going and visiting your big city, you know, and also there will be I promise you. I know you don't see it, but even though you're in a small town, I promise you, there are little diamonds somewhere, and yes there's something there. I promise you. It's not gonna look shine, it's not going to be big, it's not going to be pretty, but it doesn't mean the diamond isn't there. It's there.
No, it's when I was living in like the big city, I was like just living a care free life, just doing whatever I wanted to and now like this, it's just it's a lot different now and I appreciated of it. I'm actually back in school now because I was like, if I'm going to be in this town, at least I need.
To grow somehow.
Back in school good.
And I'm like, I am kind of thinking like maybe I can like change the view of the city, help the city grow.
I don't know, but yeah, that's awesome.
Yes, there you run with that.
That's that's injecting something into something instead of looking at something and having this narrow viewpoint like, oh, this city sucks. Not no, it doesn't. Your attitude about it kind of sucks. Just you got to make us. You have the ability to make anything fun. Wherever I go, it's a good time, you know what I mean. So you need to remember, like you we all have the power to do that. Yes,
and you can make Yeah. I love what you just said, Like you could change the city, you could help the city, you could do something creative. You're going back to school, that's awesome. And yeah, you just needed a little pep talk and you.
Change your perspective in two that you change your perspective. And how we both responded, Oh, there you go because you change your perspective and how you were gonna look at.
It, Like, what are your ideas? What do you mean by that? Like do you have anything in mind?
I do have something in mind.
One of my niece or nephews has autism, like a developmental disability, and there's no resources here for that.
Perfect, perfect, perfect, perfect.
This is great.
So I want to look into that.
Actually, I only have one more class left for my degree, which for it's like a social work degree, But I want to look into that.
Great, amazing the process is on that.
But because there is like kids with autism or any developmental disability, there's there's nothing resources here.
So I'm going to I'm going to look into that.
Yeah, because maybe that's why you're there. By the way, now you're going to be the miracle for a lot of other people.
Yeah, listen, you're going to be fine. You're doing a great thing. You're doing an amazing thing. Like focus on the task at hand and then do everything you can in your schooling in your free time to actually make something, make the situation there better. And what you just said is perfect. I mean, go for it and keep us posted.
Oh I well know.
That you guys are also like influential and inspirational people, so it's really nice to hear this advice.
Yeah, yeah, you just need a little boost.
Yeah.
And every time you think like you're just like I hate this place, just think of me kicking you in the ass.
Okay, that's the pose of reinforcement.
I need see what diamonds you can find. Okay, James, Okay, thanks, take care.
Thank you guys so much.
You're so welcome.
Good luck by by.
Oh we turned that beat around you guys. Way to go, team go.
James go.
Well, let's take our last little break and we'll end on a little bit of a lighter note.
Okay, and we're back.
So our last question. Both of you talk a lot about this meditations Loving Kindness, Maggie says, Dear Chelsea, I've been binging episodes lately, so I thought i'd write in. I'm having trouble with a coworker. She's routinely been annoying and even occasionally unkind to me, and recently snagged a
promotion I was up for. I can't help but feel jealousy toward her and a sourness about my higher ups making a decision that I think was wrong, But I think I need to opt for forgiveness toward all of them, or I'm just going to start hating my job. How do I create a sense of loving kindness for someone I don't like?
Maggie, Okay, well we've said this before, but there is a loving kindness meditation that you do for people that you don't like or you feel have wronged you, and you do it for twenty eight days. Google it. You send out peace, love, joy to someone you love, to someone who's neutral, to someone you don't love, and to someone you actively dislike. And it's a very good practice because you do not want to harbor that. You don't want to be in work. You don't want to be
a victim. You don't want to be angry that someone got something that you didn't. If anything that is meant for you will not pass you. So if that was promotion wasn't yours, something is going to happen down the line that is going to be better suited and probably even better than that promotion, whether it's a different job
eventually or whatever. That's the way the world works, and especially when you can be graceful about not getting what you wanted and I think meditation is just too powerful, too not You know, everyone wants to meditate and they want immediate results, and that's just not how it works. You have to keep putting marbles in the marble jar, and then all of a sudden, your meditation you feel it, and you feel it every day and you're like, oh, this is right, this is the feeling I was after.
And our brains really are plastic, like they can change, they can morph. And you talk in your book about sometimes it feels like you're tricking your brain into seeing the positive side.
Can you talk a little bit about that.
As you literally are. I mean, your subconscious mind doesn't know the difference. But to what Telsea was saying before, you have to first of all, you can't create when you're negative. It's a very difficult place to start when you're in negativity and bitterness and anger. Oh but let me create a really good job for myself. It's not going to work. They're releasing and letting go and forgiveness. By the way, when I say it's never condonement, you're
not condoning a behavior. You're not condoning bad behavior. You're not condoning the bitchiness or negativity or the betrayal or any of it. But when you do those meditations and you bless someone, I had to do it. I bless you with love and I release you in peace. I had to do this to enemies in my life all throughout my life. I bless you with love, and I
release you in peace. I don't even want to think about you, but I also don't want to harbor all of the negativity that I feel towards that person or the situation. And then once you release all that toxic energy from you, then you get into a space of creation. And that's when you visualize, and that's when you see yourself in the end, and that's when you see yourself having what you have. But I promise you I've tried it,
and it doesn't work. You can't have the poison and the negativity and the anger and the bitterness and try to create greatness. It's just it's like you're sweating upstream constantly of Oh, I hate this person. I can't believe this person. I can't you know. My dad always used to say to me, it is what it is, what are you going to do about it? I'd never grasped and what he was saying was you have to accept
the energy that showed up. Just accept it. You don't have to like it, but you have to own that it's here. And then you decide what am I going to do about it? So it becomes your responsibility to shift the energy and shift yourself. And if it's leaving a job or getting better at the job or whatever it is, but it is what it is, what you're going to do about it. It's we all have to ask ourselves that all of the time. And I think that that's the way you shift your energy because the
brain will follow where you tell it to go. The subconscious, I should say, will do that. That's why affirmations work. That's why your energy shifts with affirmations. It's not a joke. There's nothing WOOO about it. It's science and every religion talks about it.
Amen, I love it.
Thank you so much, Nichole. This episode's gonna bring a lot of light to a lot of people.
And I yes, and everyone and who hasn't read the book think you'll be happy. Please pick it up because it is a very beautiful way to look at the world, to look at death, to look at grief, and to rise to the occasion rather than letting the occasion topple you.
I love that.
I just thought that up, guys.
I love that. Thank you.
Okay, Nicole, I love you so nice to.
Talk with you, Hoks so much, sweetheart.
Okay, So show dates coming up Canadian show dates. These are for Canadians, guys. I'm coming February ninth. I'll be in Winnipeg, Victoria, BC is March eighth. Then I will be in Salt Lake City April fourth, and Denver April fifth. I'm coming to Arizona at Maricopa April twelfth. April thirteen, I'll be in Brooks, California at the Cash Creek Casino, and then I'm going to be in Santa Rosa Sunday, April fourteenth. I'm coming to Richmond, Virginia, Baltimore, Maryland on
April twentieth, Gary, Indiana, Prior Lake, Minnesota. Coming to Oklahoma, Norman, Oklahoma on May third and May fourth. I will be in Thackerville, Oklahoma for my rescheduled Windstar World Casino date. And I want to make sure that I give a shout out to our show for Netflix. As a joke festival, I put together a show with some of my favorite comics. It's May eleventh at the YouTube Theater Downtown, which I've
never performed in, so that's going to be fun. It's a pretty big I have Beteo Lane, I have Fortune Themester performing, I have Sam Jays on the show and Vanessa Gonzale. So we it is called a Jew two Mexicans, No a Jew, two gays at a Mexican. No a Jew, three gays at a Mexican. So it's political correctness that
it's finest. And then I will be in Verona, New York on May twenty sixth, and then I'm coming to Australia in July and New Zealand July fifth, Auckland and I'm coming to Wellington, New Zealand, Melbourne, Brisbane, Sydney and then Thursday, August first, which is a long way away and a date I am just seeing that I am not ready to announce. Okay, So those are all my dates for that are up and available, so get your tickets. I can't wait to see you. Uh yeah, that's it.
If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and be sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert executive producer Catherine Law and be sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot com