The Norma Jean Years with Bruce Bozzi

I'm excited for my folks. They're like going to a steak dinner and we sent them fifty flowers for fifty years. That's pretty well. Congratulations, that's sweet. Thanks. I will pass it along. But how are you doing? What's going on? Well, I'm in Whistler. I mean when this air is I'll be hosting the Daily Show this week that it airs, but we're taping this in advance. I'm up here. The

snow is just not cooperating right now. So I went to go visit my girlfriend in Park City for a four A's Whisky Deer Valley, and there was so much snow there it was heaven. I was like oh my god. And then I came here and I'm just hanging out writing a book, writing new material. Also, I'm going back on tour. Everybody, I have a new tour. It's called a little Big Bitch because I'm a little big bitch and I always have been. Well now I'm a big

little bit. No, I'm still a little big bitch. Whatever. Anyway, I'm going back on tour. I'm gonna be at Zany's Nashville March twenty nine through Sunday April six, and then Irvine Improv and then I have theater dates everywhere from Peoria, Illinois, Carmel, Calamazoo, Spokane, Washington, Boys, Idaho, Vegas, Highland, California, Tulsa, Oklahoma, and more and more and more. So go to chel Sadler dot com for tickets. And that starts in April.

So I'm very excited. Catherine. Yeah, amazing. I have family in Peoria, Illinois. They might fell too square though to come see you. Well, now they can see me. They just we shouldn't interact, right exactly. Yeah, you are a wild woman, like you just finished a tour and they're like surprised. Here's another I know, I know it doesn't make any sense. I'm like, why am I going right back on tour. They're like, because you just put out a special, now you go on tour. I'm like, wait,

what so confusing all of it? I thought you were just like ready to raid. So many responsibilities. I mean, I don't know which way to turn, no wonder. I want to stay in bed all day when I'm home. Yesterday I was like, I got up, I wrote from like five am to eight am, and then I smoked a joint and everything went to ship. Oh my gosh. Yeah, I have like a three hour burst of creativity first thing in the morning. And then I wasn't gonna go skiing because it was so crappy out. I was like,

what's the point? But it was cozy. I just want to be in bed and watched bad TV. Not even bad TV. I really want to watch good TV. But I think I've exhausted all television shows. Yeah, I mean, it's slim pickants out there right now, even though there are one thousand shows. Well, I know, which makes no sense with the volume of of options. But I know you also like to be in bed with a good book. And actually we've had a bunch of people asking for

book recommendations. Oh, yes, we have Lessons in Chemistry is really good. I'm reading that right now. There's another book that's someone left in my house and I'm also reading, but I don't remember the name of that, The Great Alone. Did we talk about The Great Alone yet? Oh? By Kristin Hannah. That is a great book. And every yes, that book is about homesteadying in Alaska, which is a subject matter that I couldn't be less interested in. And I that book that was a page turner. I mean

I could not get enough of it. And it's a big book. It's like six hundred pages, but it flies by. I think I read it into plane rides or onto plane rides. I love that. The Great Alone is great. I read The Paper Palace. I mean that wasn't one of my favorite books. I read that pretty quickly too, so it's kind of a page turner. And then oh, I read this cute little nightstand book, Gallatea by Madeline Miller.

What's that about? She wrote cirk or cercy. I don't even know what the proper pronunciation is for it, but I think it's cirk. Yeah. I look at that every time, and I'm like, I don't know how to say that. It's such a good book. I wish I could reread books, but I mean, there's too many books to read to have time to reread any Yeah, this is a podcast recommendation, but it has one of the greatest names I think

I've ever heard. There is a new podcast that is about the kind of throwaway books that we all get at airports, and it is called If Books Could Kill I guess to put it at the way they would. They describe this podcast as a podcast about the books that captured our hearts and ruined our minds. So it's a lot of debunking. It's a lot of funny commentary and like unpacking the culture of what we believed at

a certain point when this book was popular. They sort of break down like Malcolm Gladwell and The Secret and all these different books, and it's great. So it tells you which books are worth reading and which ones aren't. Yeah, and like some of them are sort of teasing about them because there may be like a couple of decades old and they're like, remember what we believed at the time, and you how this fit into the culture and what this did to us all what we all believed in.

But it's a fantastic listen. It's very funny. I just love the name if Books Could Kill. I also want to make a couple of recommendations of some of my favorite books. I think House of Mirth by Edith Wharton is an old classic. That's fucking awesome. That's a real commentary on society then and now, like not much has changed. And then The Red Tent is a really good book. I have always heard about The Red Tent and I need to read it. Yeah, that's a classic book too.

That's beautiful. I mean, I love the way, you know when books just take you to a place that you would never go, like homesteading in Alaska. I'm never doing that and never catching my own food. If you know, that's not gonna happen. Even if I tried, it wouldn't happen. So for some reason, I always conflate The Red Tent with Pillars of the Earth, even though I read Pillars of the Earth and loved it. For some reason, I always think those are the same kind of Stuff's funny

I always conflate. I always put them together. The Red Tent and Memoirs of a Geisha because I just think both of books are really important reading, are great reading at the very at the very least, Yes, especially for women, especially for woman. Well, I'm going to have to get on the red tent because it's just been too long.

Did you get the clip I sent you of me talking about you and your hard boiled eggs on Alex Cooper's podcast and about Brad Like the fact that Brad has remained He's an victim, he's gang he's getting egged to every day, victim of your abuse. Oh my gosh, I loved that. Thank you for thank you for bringing me very stoned to Alex Cooper. Oh my god, my eyes were closed and she could not stop giggling. It was my favorite. I was like, this is a fucking

mass this interview. That was so much fun. But I think people loved it because they're just like, this is what we want to see from Chelsea Hammer and I think Alex Cooper, I think that's what they're there for. Okay, So we have a guest today. He is a gay man, and that is an identifier. You're not supposed to do that. Okay. He's a great guy and he I've known him for a long time. And I did his podcast which is called Table for Two, and then he elbowed his way

onto this podcast. So please welcome Bruce Buzzy. Hi Bruce. How are you good? Chelsea? How are you? Can you hear me? I can see you and I can hear you. This is Katherine, my partner in crime. Hello, how are you? Bruce? I'm good? Are those all your Grammy's behind you? Yeah? My grammy's my oscars my. Yeah. I didn't know you were such an award winning performer. Thank you, Chelsea. But you know you learned something new every day. Maybe you'll

win an award for your podcast. Aren't there a podcast awards? The Webbies? Oh really Yeah? We were at Webby Honoree this year and honoree. I thought we were a nominee. What's an honoree? We were a nominee and then we were at honoree. It's like that when I first set of podcasts, you were way to cut it and a half. By the way, who you Who did you just have on your podcast that was so good? Was it Scarlett Johansson?

Thank you? Yeah, we had Scarlett. Yeah, she kind of kicked it off and Octavia Spencer just dropped and you're coming up. Oh, this is very exciting. I can't wait to see what headlines this brings. Every time I say something, I have to stop. I'm like, oh, I'm glad I'm out of the country, as if you can't access the news when you're in a different country. I was just on a podcast with a girlfriend and I was like, I don't want to comment on this because it will

become a headline. And sure enough, there was like fifteen articles the next day with that headline. So anyway, I'm just going to be mute from now on because I can't express myself. The world would be a lesser place if you, I know. I want to talk about your long storied career, pivoting careers. We've curated today's calls, hopefully to suit something that you have some area of expertise in, which is the restaurant business. For instance, you're kind of

in the Hollywood business. You have been a fixture on Hollywood scene forever. So, but that's also do you think that's by way of the restaurant business, you know, yeah, I mean the so the restaurant business. Obviously, thirty year career, ninety at the Palm restaurant, which my great grandfather co founded in I got involved doing summer jobs through college

and then just it became my career. It's just like a calling for me, which kind of made sense because it was in the d n A. And I think to answer that question, I think the Palm really sort of was the intro to my sort of Hollywood relationships because I moved to l A and I was ringing checks in the West Hollywood Palm as I was also trying to do commercials and be an actor, but I was a really bad actor. But it was like my early twenties and I was out in l A. So

I met a lot of people. Then I call it my sort of normal gene trying to become Marilyn and Row years. Well, yeah, okay, great, exactly who you remind me of? Norma Jean? Thank you? Gee. I wish it was Marilyn and Wrow, but I'll take Normachine. Yeah right, It's more normal Jane for me than Marilyn Monroe. I appreciate that. So then so, yeah, so that happened. Then I moved back to New York, opened up the restaurant in Times Square, and a lot of my friends were

like they were all actors. It seemed I was friends with Sarah, Jessica Parker and Andy Collen's always everyone was like in the same little tribe. And I was in the restaurant bis. So I wasn't in show business. I just was a part of their world and loved everything about show biz and then fell in love with Brian Lord and that kind of through a whole different Oh yeah, so Brian Lord is your partner husband you guys have

been who's a Who's a partner at ci A correct? Yes, exactly and one of the biggest agents, if not the biggest in Hollywood. So does has he seen you act? No, he has never seen me act. I think my big my last well in the early nineties I did it was nine O two one oh, and it was all those kind of shows that you would be like sent

out for, never got one. The commercials I got were all commercials that I had to strip down, like, I had to dance in a bathing suit around rubber made garbage cans, or I had to like isn't it funny that that has only happened to women and gay men. No straight men have had to dance around like that for an audition. It was all objectrification. It was all like okay, hey, can you say your name? Could you give me your profiles? And can you take off your clothes?

And I was like okay, and then he hasn't but he never saw me at the last I moved back to New York. I did a Caligula in the East Village. When the East Village was bad, I mean Orchard and Stanton. There were drug addicts. The theater was called House of Candles. Oh that sounds tragic. House of Candles. It is tragic. And I was so bad. I was freezing. And I don't know if you remember a guy named Sandy Gallen, Yeah, of course, big manager and he became a good friend.

And when I was in l A, he would run sides with me and he was like, you were the worst actor ever scene in my life. But I was having fun and in actuality, what I was doing was kind of discovering myself, getting comfortable with my sexuality. It came from an Italian New York family, so it wasn't

the easiest. The mafia exactly. I didn't want to hit taken out on me, Catherine, because I was a game boy, you know, so that that was the purpose of those years became of real good foundation and great friendships, and so that's kind of the hollywe And Okay, so how did you and Brian fall in love? Because Brian was married to Carry Fisher, right, they weren't actually legally married, but you know that didn't happen, but they had it.

They were in love, and then they had Billy. So I had baby Billy Lord, his daughter, Billy Lord, who some of you have seen. She's been in a bunch of stuff American horror story most most of you maybe, So around two that marriage ended and Brian kind of came out. That was his realization that he was in the wrong place. And so then I met Barry. So Hollywood, so bougie, Chelsea, I'm so bougie. I met Barry at

Barry Diller and Dion von Furstenberg's wedding. And I had met Barry in my normal Janie years here in l A, so then I had gotten to know Dion. And so I was in this wedding and I see this guy and he's so sexy, and I'm like, whoa, and but

nothing happens. And because I'm living in New York at the time, and he's living in l A. And we'd see each other like I'd always crash Andy Cohen and I would come out here and we would crash every party there was during Oscar time, because we were just horrors and hookers for a good time and a movie star and fun. So I started to get to know Brian a little bit more and I decided to become a dad when I was forty. I realized, you know what,

this is something that I want to do. When I started the process as a single guy, and really quite honestly, on an airplane coming to l A for one night to have a facilitated meeting with my surrogate. Potential surrogate, a mutual friend was on the plane. She was staying with Brian. She asked if I could take her back to his home, dropped her off. It was Christmas time. He asked, why are you coming to California for a day. So I said, I'm doing this thing. It's obviously a

huge thing. And he said, come back tomorrow before you take the red eyeback. So I was here for quite four hours and I did, and in that moment, in the house that I now live in, we kind of just we're honest with each other, and that kind of led to us being in a relationship. I said, I have very strong feelings for you, he said, I do for you. We're old. I was forty at the time,

he was forty six. Looking back now as I'm about to turn fifty seven, I'm like, that was not old, by the way, and began, you know, a really great sixteen years. We're like, we just passed sixteen years together, married, like five lovely. So when you revealed to him that you were planning on becoming a father, he was on board with that right away. He was on board with that right away. And now he says, I got pregnant and trapped him. That's a cute story. I'm glad you

guys found each other. Brian so fucking sexy, all right, I mean yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean he's landed the guy. He's sexy to everybody. Yeah, he really is. He's universally sexy and a good guy. So the kids now fifteen, Yeah, what what is your kid's name? Eva? A v A. I kind of was inspired because you know, I'm a gay guy by Ava Gardner, who I just thought it was just gorgeous, strong woman, Bossie Lord. He legally adopted her a couple of years ago when we were getting married,

and all made sense. Yeah, that's sweet. I love gay parents. I'll have a daughter that's lovely. Isn't it the best gay parenting? Yeah? Gay parenting is interesting because like for me, Chelsea, I was going full throttle my twenties, my thirties, New York Palm, restaurant, working in the restaurant, staying out late. And it just because you're not married to a woman who's her body is changing, so you're slowing up naturally.

It's like all of a sudden, you're like the next day, it's like, excuse me, can you get to the hospital? Your your life's about to be over. Yeah, I know. It's a kind of like it takes your lifestyle to a grinding halt. Like that's how I felt when Andy Cohen had a kid. I was like, wait a second, this is gonna change a lot. And then he had another one. I'm like, wait what So Yeah, it's funny, I mean, I guess because nine months is there to

prepare you. Although nine months is never enough to prepare anybody, you know, when you're when you're carrying a baby, I mean, I had a friend who just had a baby a couple of days ago and almost died during the delivery. She had the worst was she lost so much blood and she's her heart was leaking, and I was like, oh my god, Like you think it's such an everyday easy thing, and it's like, no, this used to kill people. Yeah, yeah, No.

Billy just had her second baby, and I gotta say she was so committed to making sure everything was you know, the nine months, she took such great care of herself. But the actuality, you know, it was a difficult. There were difficulties and Brian was a mess and he was like, can this please, Like, can we not have any more babies? It's like you said, it's not to be taken for granted.

How difficult to have a kid come out of your vagina? Pikachu? Yeah, yeah, you should start saying Pikachu too, because you're never ever going to have to deal with a vagina and Pikachu such a It's just such a nice other way to say it, right, vagina sounds like, I don't know, there's a hammer coming down at the end of it or something. Tell us about parenting with your daughter, what's her situation at fifteen. Is she manageable or is she about to

you know, does she hate you? She manageable? That's how I think of children. Are they manageable? I thought of you today because I drive her to school, which is irritating, and I thought to myself, you know what, Chelsea doesn't have to get up before ten am. No, but for some reason, I get up at fucking five every single day. I should be sleeping till ten am. Yeah, you should. I go to bed at like nine, So I've just completely switched my clock. Me too. I actually couldn't keep

my eyes open last night. But she is still into building these massively complicated lego things that like I could never do. She got that kind of brain. She's definitely bitchy to me, Like I asked her a question, like you have to like sneer at me when I asked you the question, can you just answer nicely? We're in that phase. She's not going to the parties. That's not where her mind is at. So you know, I don't

want her going to those parties. Yeah, but I don't think what we did at those parties is happening with this generation of people. I think they're much more scared of drugs. They're not partying like we partied, and they should be scared of drugs because they're everything is so screwed up out there with fent at all and stuff like that. But I feel like fifteen year olds are much smarter than we were. They have access to so much more information than we did. We didn't have the

Internet when we were fifteen. No, you're so white, and they actually kind of tell you what they want to do, and like they have a plan. Yeah, you had a plan to get in a first class ticket. I do have fucking plants. Who knows what they are, but they're just inside of my head until I expel them and then watch out and then watch out duck. So that's the kid thing. What were your roles with you and Brian as parents? Who's the softie and who's the kind

of rule enforcer? I'm sure of the primary caretaker. So I'm the one who's like, wake up, let's get breakfast, let's do this, like, oh, you gotta go to the dentist. You know, when Brian, when we when we began this journey together, Billy was already like fourteen. I was like, you don't have to do that. You know, if she gets up blah blah blah. She considers him the smart one. So all homeworks, she's like, you know, I want to go through this project, so can I talk to you

about it? As I'm sitting there and I'm like, hello, because you funked up from homework so badly, looked up our homework so badly. And then and they're a little bit like snotty towards me, Brian, and they look at me like and then I'm like, fine, I'll go in my office. I'll go and hang out and have a glass of wine and binge. I don't need you guys either. Get out. That's a spirit there, you go. Okay, So we're gonna take a quick bit. We're gonna take a

quick bake, and we're gonna be right back. And we're back. We're back, We're back. You're someplace very glamorous. Oh I'm in Whistler, Canada. That's your place, your happy place. Yeah. But the snow is no bueno. It's not happening. Really, it's just wet and damp and there's no snow. It hasn't snowed in like two weeks. Surprising with all this weather snow patterns around the world. Well, I think when it hits America, it doesn't hit Canada and vice versa.

So Canada has been pretty lucky the last few years, and now it's probably back to America's turn. We got all the precipitation and then maybe throwing a little little pinch of climate change and then you see what happens. Yeah, a tad Okay, So what's going on there, toy. Katherine's gonna take us through what we can expect because we're going to talk to live callers, So you better get

your fucking a game on, Bruce. Okay, Bruce, I read in People Magazine that you said one of your favorite moments on your podcast Table for Two was your conversation with Chelsea we have fun lunch. Chelsea didn't have a fun lunch, I know, but we didn't even have a drink. I regret that it's all Chelsea's orders an iced tea. And then at the end, Chelsea, you go, we could have had a drink and I was like yeah, She's like, well, I didn't realize we were having lunch. You know, I

don't ever really look at my calendar. I just show up where I'm supposed to be. So I could be showing up for a lunch or I could be showing up for a podcast. I don't really know until I get there. And when I got there, I thought, oh, this is a podcast. And then we ordered food and then I was like, wait a second, I should have had a drink in this situation. Was there a lot of chewing into Mike's That's my only question, because we

turned it off. Well, I don't know what we did. No, No, we were actually people do complain about the chomp and we were not chopping. We were like, very gracious. Listen, just so you know, this is a woman who carries hard boiled eggs on planes, and so if she wants to talk about or complain about chomping, you need to back the duck up, you know what. I flip listen to it. I heard that episode and I was like, oh,

and I've been bullying her ever since. Please for the first kind, you know what, I think I may have to change my ways. Maybe we'll just have them to the airport to an egg an meeting where people admit to terrible things they've done with eggs. Although you know what they do sell those like little double bag of eggs now at the airport? I feel slightly, I know, but that's just they're just trying to taunt you. Don't give in, do not. It's her victims like you. You know,

Yeah you cannot Yeah no, no, no no buyo. Well, Bruce, I have some questions that I think are right up your alley. We are very excited for you to be joining us. You ready to answer some questions? I am ready well. Our first email comes from d D, says Dear Chelsea. I'm a thirty one year old gay man living in Canada. I've been with my partner for just over three years. We've been exploring with other people in the bedroom for about two years now. Recently, we had

a threesome with another guy on vacation. We ended up spending almost four days with him. We were on a high from it and it was an amazing experience. However, since coming home from this vacation, things have taken a turn. I bet we're both very much hung up on this guy and it's starting to affect our relationship. We haven't always had the easiest sex life, and this experience is making us both question our compatibility in the bedroom and in other areas of our relation. Chip looking for some

advice or a hard dose of reality. Cheers D Bruce. You need to take that as a gay man, because I know that the rules feel slightly different for heterosexual and homosexual relationships. Yeah, D, I would say they are different. And you so okay with no judgment with how people want to live their lives, which means we're judging you no judgment. Get a fucking grip. Yeah, keep it, um. I think it's always a very slippery slope when you have sex, when you bring somebody in to enhance your

sex life, if you're in a relationship. From personal experience in my early twenties, I did have an experience where it turned out unexpectedly. I was brought to someone's house and I was really into this guy that I was dating. The next thing I know, there was like two other people there, and we were getting a tour of their house and we've got to their bed room and he starts like rubbing my chest and I was like, Oh, this doesn't normally happen in the tour part of the house.

And then I realized it just was not my speed, and I exited the situation sat in the living room left, So that's being very just personal. But so for D, I think you know, someone's always going to be favored. If you have a three way and you're with your partner and all of a sudden the person likes your partner more, it's just not good. The fact that they made it like a four day Yeah, it sounds like

a kidnapping. Like kidnapping. Yeah. I think part of being in the relationship is you know, it's not always fun to have sex with the same person, and it's not easy and it does get a little bit like okay, but it's just a very tricky I would say D, this relationship probably doesn't not gonna last. And because it's just not gonna last, so you both like have this thing for him, where does he fit in? Like someone's

gonna end up with this guy? And I don't know if it's going to be team, but it sounds like it's somebody who's like in another country somewhere or some other location. But they can all they can all regroup or one of them could regroup with him. And but I also think listen, if you're having those feelings, you had that experience with this guy for four days, you

come home and your relationship is not right. That's a good sign that you just got that your relationship isn't right and that your sexual compatibility may not be sustainable. So that's a good thing to find out that you're not compatible with somebody sooner than later. And so look

at it like that. I feel like sexual compatibility like when that's gone or if it's that's not there, that's like the most fundamental thing that you need to be attracted to the other person that you want to fuck them. You know, if you don't want to suck them, or you have trouble fucking them or it's awkward, then that's not compatible. Because there's people out there that you're gonna have in incredible chemistry with. Yeah, I agree, the chemistry

that's the foundation for the relationship. And if that's not there in the beginning, you're not gonna have a long term relationship because at the end of the day that does change. But you do have to reinvent and I always want to like have sex with them, but and I think to your points else, you're right, better to

learn early. And also it makes you questionable kind of relationship you want to have like, maybe you don't want to have a long term monogamous relationship where you or maybe you want to call the guy from your vacation and get together with him. Yeah, maybe it's a refle situation. Maybe that's the relationship you're supposed to be in. Yeah,

and just I tend to agree with you both. But just to play devil's advocate, you know, when you open up your relationship, you are giving yourself the sort of room to play sexually. And maybe part of your relationship not working sexually is Hey, that's why we have this open thing, so we can go like have fun elsewhere we come back together. But yeah, what do you think

about that? I mean, just to play devil's advocate, the opening up of the marriage could have been the solve to the sex life, but it sounds like it's creating too many problems. I don't know relationships that it solves it. Yeah. I know another friend that's kind of experiencing going through something similar and they have an open relationship and now the boyfriend is really into the other person. Yeah, you know, and this is bringing up all sorts of feelings for

this guy. So I don't know, but I feel like I can't comment on it because I'm a straight woman, and so my opinions of it are like, no, I don't want an open relationship. I mean, I don't mind sucking around with the third party, but I don't want to be dating other people when on relationship. I mean, I think there's there's a big distinction there. And I do think you have no matter what your sexual hetero, straight,

you know, gay, it's the same thing. If you were in a relationship and you opened it up and all sudden there's like another woman this relationship with you, and this scot your guy, You're going to be like after a while, this this isn't working. You know, I don't know how many fumbles that work. And I think it's um. I also think gay guys and this is a generalization, there's just an issue with long term sex commitment and it's kind of built into the d n A and

men are pigs and this is what we do. I mean, you have it, everybody, Men are pigs. You heard it here first, and no one will be surprised to hear that they heard it on my podcast, except it didn't come out of my mouth, did it. Well. I think we sort of solved that one. Yeah tell DA, let us know what goes down, because I want to hear yeah D. Please keep us posted. I will also say, if you do decide to give your relationship a try, like a real college try after this, there are therapists

that specialize in open relationships, polyamory, all that stuff. So since the majority of our relationship has been polyamorous, open, that might be a good thing to try. There you go, that's good advice that I didn't even think about that. That's what I'm gonna I'm gonna get certified as a polyamorous therapist. Oh my god, I would go to r O one one more thing to add to my repertoire. It's also the advice I gave to two of my friends and they opened up their marriage and blew it

up in spectacular fashion. And she ran off with his best friend and now he dates guys. So it's great. Sounds like a home run. It all works out in the air. Yes, I mean opening it up and including your best friend. That's not so I know, at least these guys did it on vacation. But also opening it up though, and finding out that you're into the same sex and you start dating the same sex, Like, you're freeing both people up to actually pursue what they really want,

you know what I mean. So that's a good thing too. It's not such a bad thing when people separate, especially if both people even if they go in complete opposite directions, like if both people are fulfilled. Greatgre Wow. Well. Our next question comes from Amanda. She is calling in here and she is a chef in Ohio. Hello, Chelsea. I'm a freelance chef and I've been working my ass off all my adult life. Over the last six and a

half years. One of my jobs has been working part time as a private chef amongst a group of full time chefs. My boss, who exhibits extreme narcissistic traits, only takes note of things that will benefit him. He took an interest in a healthy cookie I was making for guests and would ask about the recipe. I had been carefully developing this recipe over the course of eight years and had loose plans to market it. This sent off a red flag in my head, and I became guarded

about giving the recipe to him. The last time he asked for the recipe, he said he wanted to make it in one of the guests homes and would give me credit for the recipe. I politely asked him instead if I could critique the current method he was using

and avoided giving my recipe to him. Fast forward a few months, as it was working next to him, one morning, he revealed to me that he and his pastry chef wife have developed their own healthy cookie and that they are going to take it to market with the help of his wealthy clients. I was so furious I shut down and ran to the office to cry. This is a corporate environment in which if you show signs of

distress or confrontation, you are the problem. If he mentions it in front of me again, I'm not sure how I'll react. My gut tells me to be direct with him to help break his unchallenged ways of narcissism and possibly build a future where others aren't taken advantage of. But another coworker thinks my confrontation would only lead to an uncomfortable work environment. I certainly don't want to lose my job. What would you do, Amanda? Oh wow, Hi Amanda, Hi,

Hi hire. We have our guest today, Bruce Bozzi. Say hi to Bruce. Hi, Bruce, Hi, Amanda, how are you good? How's it going good? Excellent? Thank you. So Bruce is a restaurant guy through and through, and that's why I

thought he'd have some good wisdom on this for you. Sure, I think this is like even beyond just the restaurant piece, and so people will steal a good idea and there, you know, and and restaurant business, you know, create a dish, create a special Someone then takes that special over and they try they want credit. So I feel she could be direct with him. She could say, you know, hey, that sucks. I gave you this idea, I mean, and

you kind of took it. I guess. Was she planning on bringing him into offer to their guests and he then him making a business of it? Is just like a stab, you know what I mean? And I think it happens in all business show business, and you know you you say you're working on something, and all of a sudden, somebody has good funds with you, they go for the part. They She learned a hard lesson here and her feeling she's never really going to get past that.

She just gotta now just develop her own cookie. And she's gotta. I think, make that a business plan be motivated by That would be my advice to her. I mean, this doesn't preclude you from pursuing the avenue that you were pursuing previous to him revealing that, right, you can still do your thing. Yeah, I mean I'm a freelancer. I have a lot of different things going on. This is kind of like on the back burner. I think the bigger thing for me, I think I'm over the emotional,

all gut reaction to it. It's more of like how do I respond if this gets brought up in the workplace again? How do I keep myself calm and collected? And how do I effectively communicate with him? As like an extreme narcissist. I feel like, honestly, with an extreme narcissist, there's no point in revealing how you feel. It's not going to have any impact. I think with him, it's like just look the other way, Like he's on his

own planet, you know. I mean, if you feel compelled to say something to him, I honestly feel like it will fall on deaf ears. Yeah, going and looking at him is the hard part. And to sort of like being in a work environment that you find joyous and you want to be creative and you want to bring something to the table. Now you there's a lack of trust there so and all narcissists just deny what you're saying anyway, like they deny their own behavior. They have

no accountability. Yeah, it's just it's hard for me to understand that mindset. I tend to be empathetic and try to understand, you know, why people do things, But it's more of me just being able to cope in that environment someone like that. And really, when I talk to my coworkers, they all kind of come to the same conclusion, is that this is just kind of how it is. Is he senior to you in any way? Uh yeah, I mean he's been there longer than me, but he's

not your boss. I mean I could talk to someone in like HR above him, but usually that just creates a whole mess and a lot of times when you know, things don't get resolved because he's kind of the head of our department. Well, also, HR is not going to resolve this. It's not a human resources thing, right, I mean, I guess the person above him that's in charge of our department, I should say me coming from the corporate

environment that I do knows these things. Oh man, it's funny that you use this cookie thing because I know someone who's created a cookie. It's really great. And she refuses to give anybody the recipe. She just hasn't. And it's like, okay, yeah, good on you for not giving him the recipe. By the way, that's good. Yeah, I think you know karma comes into play here. I'm sorry,

just believe in it. And I also think that that so the hard part for you is how do I work with this person because you took my idea and and that's difficult, and I think you just have to sort of. I actually do feel, even though he's a narcissiist, is room to have a conversation and communications say hey, you know, this was something I shared and in my fall on deaf yours, I think to Chelsea's point, which then could even leave you less fulfilled in the conversation.

It's very tricky. I would just continue with your projects. Don't even give him the time of day. Let it be like water off a ducts back. Seriously, just he's not important enough to you. He's not going to prevent you from succeeding in your life when he's stealing ideas from people, that says at all. So it's not even

worth your aggravation. And so I think you just have to think of it your yourself as like on a different level than him, and it's not even worth interacting or engaging unless he really disrespects you in a very blatant way. Than of course you can defend yourself and speak up for yourself, but on this matter, like it's just not worth it. That's true. I just I can just foresee an issue similar to this coming up again, and it's just more about maintaining composure and just knowing

how to handle it. Yeah, I think maybe you should just you know, maintaining composure. What my therapist Dan always used to say is that there's like your reaction plus time is a response. So like as soon as you're reacting in real time, that's not a response. That's like a jerk guttural thing. So in any instance where he does provoke you in any way, if that happens, you just have to take a real calm, deep breath or a few and be like, I won't be spoken to

like this. This feels very disrespectful because then it's about what it feels like to you. You're not accusing him of anything. It's like this is you know, you don't want to be emotional, you want to just be direct and confident. I feel disrespected in this moment. There's nothing that anybody can argue with about that statement, right, Yeah, And he can only take from you what you give him.

There is sort of an energy boundary that I think that you can set for yourself, Like Chelsea's said, water off a ducks back, where you know what your bubble is. He doesn't get access to that, he doesn't get access to your creative ideas. You know, I have a relationship of someone in my life who will always be in my life, and several years ago I was like, you know what, I can't tell this person stuff that's really

personal to me because it'll get used against me. But now I have a great relationship with that person because I keep it light, I keep it civil. We chat about the weather, We chat about stuff like that, and it's really improved things. So, you know, maintaining them talking about the weather, that's a great way to keep your cool. Yeah, but give yourself a boundary where You're like, you know, he can't get in here. Yeah. Yeah, that's a smart

thing to do. And it also might be time to get your own wealthy clients to market that cookie because eight years, I bet it tastes pretty good. Yeah, good idea. All right, Amanda, let us know what happens. Okay, thanks a lot, and send us some cookies. Yeah, I would love it, so yeah, yeah, send us some cookies. Yeah, I'll be in touch with you, Catherine. Awesome, Thanks Amanda, Amanda. I well, I'm such a ding like Amanda, pops up.

I don't realize that the man is the one. No ship, You're like, she she, I'm like, she's sitting right here, and I know, you know, what are you staring at yourself on the screen because I do that all the time where you don't look at the other person and I'm looking at myself. So I apologize, Amanda. I literally was like, that's who we're talking to. Yes, that's a man. Well, our next question is sort of an industry question, so I thought you would both have some good insight into this.

Our next caller is Caroline. She is thirty six, she's a PhD student, and she's also ex military Dear Chelsea, I'm a PhD student and not in the industry quote unquote, However, I met an older man in a networking event and he showed interest in a book I published, Fairly Smooth Operator. We're both military veterans, and he wants to produce a short film of one of the chapters, a chapter that tells the story of sexual harassment issues I encountered that

still exists in the military. The problem is, when we finally met in person, he took the conversation in the direction of asking me about my dating life. I don't think he crossed a line, and he didn't ask me out. I don't know if this is just what people in l A talk about, or if this is inappropriate and he's trying to shoot his shot. Why can't I network

with men without being subject to potentially dating them. I feel like I'm being asked to sign away my rights to a book with someone who has connections that would be helpful. However, there's a murkiness now around his intentions. What should I say to make the line clear or should I not work with him at all? Is this why you only work with women? Chelsea? Thanks for your help. Caroline Hi, Caroline, Hi, Hi, thanks for having me. Hi. This is Bruce Bozzy. He's our guest today and he

is embedded in the Hollywood industry. I have a stronghold in it. No, I don't, but yes, I familiar with it. I actually have something that I feel. But I think Chelsea, you should lead with this. Well. I just think absolutely not, Like, do not work with that is so out of style and so passe, and men asking you about your dating life when you're on a business meeting is unacceptable period,

That's not what you're there for. So I would just cut ties with him and continue to send your script out and network and just you're going to find somebody that's gonna want to do it for you, and it's

probably going to be a woman. Yeah. And I think also people reveal themselves so quickly, So if you're paying attention and you choose to look past that because you want to get the project done, you're going to find out, oh, that was actually who they are and he revealed himself and you felt it and trust your instincts in your gut, and I would say, he's not the guy, okay, And then what's the best that I'm going to run into

him again at these networking meetings. So do I make an excuse, do I confront it, or do you think is the best way to do that? I would I would confront it, because men like that needs to be called out. I would be like, hey, listen, it's inappropriate for you to be asking me about my dating life. And he'll you know, minimize it and say, oh, well, no, I was just trying to get to know you. It's like,

it's not We're not in that era anymore. We're in present day, modern times and there's been enough information in the last five years for you to understand that, especially in this industry, you need to behave yourself and act above board, like you're serious about your work, and you showing him that you're serious about your work is going to have a longer and bigger impact than you continuing to work with him. Is there anything in the moment with that that you would say, you know, I was

kind of shocked at the moment and not prepared for that. Well, yeah, I would go, really, are you asking me about my personal life? Do you know what year it is? It's twenty twenty, what year is it? Whatever? Right? Okay? Three? I don't Why am I expected to know what year it is. It's also fucking confusing. You need to like react to it in a way that's like you can't

possibly be thinking that's appropriate. It's like somebody fartay when you sit down to meet with them, it's like, no, I mean, parting is obviously less offensive than asking you about your dating life, but still inappropriate, but also normal not to know what to say in that moment because some things settle, like you kind of take it back. You're we're all taught to be respectful and to be good people and to you know, and you're in the

room and you're talking business. So when the time goes away, you know, the next day, you always like, god, I should have said that, or now you'll for the next time, or when you see him again, you're gonna like hear it much quicker and be able to be like, hey, hey, you're crossing the line here, And I think Chelsea is completely right. Yeah. A softer version of that is I wasn't comfortable with that. I was, you know, it made

me uncomfortable. I'm going to go in a different direction. Thanks, but no thanks, But I think I totally agree your gut is telling you it wasn't just like an innocent question of like shooting the breeze. It's great, and you're also like protecting future people and you know that he's going to interact with so think about it that way. He needs to know that he can't be just like asking women about their personal lives, right, Okay, Yeah. I feel like he kind of used this leg veteran bond

to make it seem like we're just being friendly. But yeah, especially with the topic, I just felt like, oh, now this is feeling exploit exploitative, exploited, I exploited. Well, especially when you're talking about, like the theme is sexual harassment and he's like, so you like to go out like what was your dating life? You're like, what, this is

not appropriate? Yeah? Yeah, well keep us posted and the next time you run into him and what happens with that, and we hope you'll find an awesome woman who wants to help you tell your story as well. Awesome. Thank you so much for the reassurance to appreciate it. Awesome, Thanks Caroline, Thanks by man are pigs? Well, that doesn't get us anywhere, does it? No? But it's like so but not all men are pigs. I mean, that's just

not true. A lot of men are. I mean, I'm not a pig, but I know a lot of good guys too. But I feel like these stories, we hear them so much, and you're right, we're not a whole different times think monogamy is really just too much pressure on too many people. I also think that we have to restructure it. It doesn't make sense with monogamy. I feel like you can make a choice to say, hey, I love you, I want to be with you, but every now and then I might want to sleep with

somebody else. You can have like a sort of don't ask, don't tell policy, But it's not a relationship. You're not forming a relationship. You just might have a moment. You might be like in Whistler and be like, oh, so and So's here. I feel like there's a lot of ways to live a full life and have multi sexual partners and not just immediately when you're like in lockdown with one person. Well, yeah, it also depends at what

age you meet that person. You know, like, when I meet my person, it's I'm going to be basically in my late forties or fifty seven right now, and I feel like that's enough time for me not to fucking want to kill because I'm not twenty and meeting them or thirty or forty. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I will say in my because obvious in my early forties, but later I meet my person this shorter time, amount of times

you want to martyr them, take them out. I actually think it's really healthy to meet people in your forties and yeah, well you're smart. I mean you're more yourself than you were in your thirties for sure, so that's

a benefit as well. Definitely. Yeah, if someone's you know, down with your personality, if someone's down with your personality, yeah, but you think meeting somebody in your forties and fifties other conversely, it's you know, you kind of like know who you are and like your routine and like your stuff. It's not so easy to be like yeah, yeah, Well there's lots of ups and downs to all ages, so just keep that in mind. Yeah, well, let's take a quick break and we'll be right back to wrap up

with Bruce and Chelsea. And we're back. We sure are well, Bruce, I wanted to ask if there's any advice you'd like to ask Chelsea Chelsea. Yeah, I would. So if there was one question that you would have appreciated being asked at fifteen at age, what would that have been? Oh? God, I was so selfish when I was fifteen. I mean I didn't think even my parents existed. You know, it was like, why aren't they here to serve me? I

just couldn't And I was so angst written too. You know what a great question would be is how can we do a better job of parenting you? Or how can I do a better job as a parent? Dangerous? Dangerous? But it really actually opens up the conversation in a way that you feel like your partners rather than necessarily parented child. And I feel like the more you read about parenting, and and I do read about parenting ironically, because I'm always interested and curious about the ownership parents

feel over their child. They think they own the person, when it's not that you don't own your kids. You're guiding them. And the idea is that when they grow up, they go out into the world and you've prepared them with enough information, you know, in their arsenal to navigate a life for themselves that is fulfilling. Yeah, but a lot of parents are just so controlling of their children, even when those kids are adults. They think that their

opinion is more important than their child's opinion. And I don't think that that's true when you're talking about two human beings. I find it very interesting that there's just so much ownership, Like you don't own a person. You're there in this life with a person, and it's a

two way street. I think you're like me. It's a great question for me to ask her because when I think about it now, you know, quite honestly, we have about three years left and then if I've done my job right, there's a strong person now that's going to have a life of their own. And I agree this weird sense of ownership of children. It's like, I know

you're your own person from the minute you're here. But that is the way for us to sort of navigate the next three years, which I think a really important for her to really know that I'm a support for her to pursue what she wants. That's the way to do it because it can avoid the frustrations and the arguments because you know, as you read about kids, the chapters changed, so when you have a small kid, you

have to like micro manage them. And so I will ask for that question, and I will see what she says, and then see if she asks you the question back, how can I be a better daughter? I bet you she won't. That's what she won't. But it's that's that's a really good question. That's a good conversation to have. I mean, I get three minutes at dinner, she's in and out, bam, she's being in a room. Yeah, it's just I remember my father being like on the father

I decide. I'm like, no, it's for how long? Like, are you serious? Because that doesn't make me to you seriously, you deciding everything doesn't make me respect you. It makes me think you're foolish. Yeah, that's funny. Again your head, I was like in the box of child parent relationship, like, no, you can't do this, this is what you should do. So like I didn't know I actually had the voice too. So much later and the later you that happens. You

have to go through the steps of life. You know you wanna you don't want to be doing what you should have done in your teens in your late twenties, absolutely, yeah, and there we have it. You guys Parenting Hot Hot parenting Tips one oh one. That's what we'll call this episode. Hot parenting Tips from Chelsea Hammler, delivered straight to Bruce Bozzy's Lap any day welcomed. Thank you Bruce for today that was really fun and love you. I love you too,

Thank you, Catherine, Thank you soon, Bye bye. Don't forget to watch my special on Netflix. You guys revolution. It's a revolution. So if you like advice from Chelsea, just send us an email at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com. Dear Chelsea is a production of I Heart Radio. Executive produced by Nick Stuff, produced by Catherine Law, and edited and engineered by Brad Dickert.