Tarot, Cults + Body Counts with Christina Ricci

Hi Catherine, Hi, oh everyone.

This is our first episode that we're recording since the election.

So that didn't really go the way we wanted it to.

No, it did not come and people are very, very down, and I have have been sifting through my dms with lots of messages of fear and defeat and people who want to give up, and that's kind of just what they want, you know, they want us to give up.

Even though this feels very very dark. I'm with you.

I just spent the whole weekend doing stand up which thank god I had to do that because it served.

As not only a reprieve for hopefully my audience.

But for me I mean, it made me forget about all of this for at least an hour. And I'm with you. I understand how dark it is and how it can feel hopeless, but that energy doesn't get us anywhere. Hopelessness and giving up and defeatism doesn't get us anywhere.

So we really have to work.

Together in community, knowing that there is half of this country that feels the same way we do. There is half this country that wants to protect all of these rights, and probably more than half. You know, a lot of people just voted because of their They voted because of their pocketbooks, and some people are voting for their fucking lives. So it would be nice if everyone was on board

Theories out there.

It's just so gross and uneducated and stupid.

Yeah, and the algorithms are so dangerous.

Sense.

It's like I've seen people that I love who are brilliant, who are discerning, who are politically savvy, and even they are getting like sucked down these weird YouTube rabbit holes. And I'm like, where are you getting this rhetoric from?

I know, and it's they're everywhere. It's permeating everywhere. And that's Russia for sure, because that's what they and that's what Elon Musk did you know when he bought Twitter, that was with this intention to do this, which is exactly you know, he was victorious. So it's like we have to you know, we have to not lie down and.

Let this roll over on us.

So I don't know what the answers are.

I feel everyone's pain, and I've responded to probably thousands of dms, but I will continue to go through them and respond to more, just trying to convey some sort of comfort and understanding that we can't be paralyzed by this.

Yeah. I saw so many people saying, you know, this week, we're going to take our time to more and we're going to take our time to wallow, and like next week we get up and we start fighting. And I think like we've taken our time and now we get brave, you know, we start getting active too.

Yeah, And if you're in Texas and you're feeling lonely and dispirited, I will be coming through there this week to Austin, Houston, Dallas, going to sugar Land Friday, Saturday, Sunday, actually, so I'll see you guys there and I'll pump you up for the night and and we'll just take it one day at a time, you know. But just remember, whoever you are and however hopeless you feel, you are not alone. There are so many millions of people that

Oh my gosh, I'm really excited to be here.

I've been such a fan of yours and we've never I've never community.

Yet, I said earlier. I'm like, I don't think i've met you, But then again, I don't remember, because sometimes I've interviewed somebody and completely forgotten. Yeah, you have no reason for.

Do people get really upset when you've interviewed them.

I forgot. Typically it's not a great it's not a great look. But I'd rather be honest. And I mean, I've been to you like fifty thousand people.

It's true.

I mean, it's justifying to understanding.

But now as I'm looking at your face, I'm like, oh, because obviously I've known you for as long as everybody else in this world has. I'm older than you, I'm five years older than you, and so I grew up with you, and so you are a familiar face to me. But as I'm looking at you in person, I realize.

I've never met you.

Yeah, we haven't met No.

But first of all, this is the most exciting part, well, not the most exciting part, but one of the most exciting part is that Christina is here today because she is releasing a tarot card collection, which is very unexpected but also kind of right on track for your brand.

Yeah, and it's weird for me too, because I love Taro. I've always thought it was.

I'm not one of those people who like fully buys into anything, really like, I don't really believe in anything, So I don't believe in the like mystical aspects of this, but I really love it for like self expiration, it postes lots of questions, So it's a funny thing for me to put out because you would think, like I'm putting out a tarot deck, I must believe in fate, which.

Yes, and I really don't.

I believe more like we're totally in control of ourselves. If we ask ourselves the right questions, we can you know, see situations fully and understand where we're going. And that's really what Tara is. You know.

Well, I'm glad you said that pre amble because sometimes when people think you were talking about tarot cards.

They think you're like out to lunch.

Yes, I used to Barley Nobles.

I would ask for the crazy Lady section when I was going to get my you know, birthday book. Remember, you'd have to like immediately go find out what his birthday was.

And they're like, you gotta get the birthday book.

And then you start by by the way, when you go to the birthday book and you look at the guy that you're dating, and you look at you, and then you go to any random guy, any other birthday, and it also aligns like they never once said this is a bad match.

There's always too many.

There are a few, but.

I think this tarot I'm looking through the tarot cards now, now did you design these?

No?

So it was so my husband and I came up with this idea and he's the creative director.

Well here's the idea. The idea basically is that they're all me just like.

An individual has a million different facets and potentialities and versions of themselves. So my husband's creative directing it. And we found this amazing artist, Felipe Flores, and he did all the artwork and came up like all the cards have little like two sentenced stories, backstories for the characters that then are metaphors for the theme or question that's being posed.

This is very good for Christmas, you guys. This is good for your family Christmas.

So west em One too with a collectible set that comes with like a tray and a muss smudging thing and candles smudging.

What kind of smudging that we're talking about.

I had to smudge your house.

Energy just smudge my house once a week. It's called Cat Full of Spiders.

It's a tarot deck with a guidebook, you guys, and it's from Christian to Ricci because you know what, I was looking at your history of all of the movies that you've ever been in, and most of them are pretty scary, like most of them, well not scary, but you are.

Yeah, you play spooky like that's kind of You're.

The ones that have stood out. I've made a lot of ones and nobody ever paid anything.

I mean, there was not scary.

Well like Mermaid wasn't scary, that was not but a lot of your roles are spooky scary, and I was like, yeah, that's interesting for a woman.

Yeah, I mean, you know, I've always been somebody who I just like, can't be normal.

So I can't be in romantic comedies.

Why do you think you can't be normal?

If I say I love you on camera, it's not believable. It is not you don't believe me for a second. I also can't be in horror films where I have to be afraid, Like I don't. I'm not convincingly fearful.

Even though I spend my life in fear. For some reason, I can't convey that on screen.

So do you know that though?

Have you tried to get scared on cass?

I've done horror.

I remember I did this one and I went to see it with my boyfriend at the time, and he was just like very I don't know, wasn't it a lot there?

But he was like, wow, you should never do a horror movie again. And I was like, no, you're right.

He's like, you just seemed like you didn't really care about anything.

That's pretty funny, what a great review. You're like, thank you for coming with me.

Yeah, I I guess I brought my apathy to that performance.

Yeah, but I mean at some point you would. I mean, it's not like you can hit a home run every single movie or job that you get. It's like a doctor. Doctor's not hitting it out of the park every single time.

I'm unfortunately unfortunately it's true.

That is so true, And I'm really glad you said that, because I think it's fine to admit that you weren't very good in certain things. Yeah, it's also it's always so horrified and I'm like, no, I'm terrible in that movie.

I'm glad you like it, but I'm not good, right, That's okay. Because I was twelve.

My friend has a number one movie that's on Netflix right now, and she's like, oh, I put the least amount of effort into this movie, and I didn't.

Even like my perform, not the least amount of effort.

She said. I was very dissatisfied with the outcome, and it ends up being the biggest movie I've ever done. And I'm like, there you go.

You never know it's gonna hit.

But it's so true, though, because I can relate to that because I in my work experiences, even though I'm not an actress per se, I have done not per se. I'm not I know why I'm saying it that way, but we're all actresses exactly. I have definitely performed at higher levels and lower levels depending on what the fuck is going on in my life and how grounded I am. And I would imagine with your career that's about what. Yeah, I mean, you've been acting since you.

Were a five, no, seven, oh well so.

Much older song.

But it is my first movie till I was nine, so I never know whether it's seven or nine, so in that area.

So at some point along the way between seven and forty five, I'm sure that you were not batting a thousand every single time.

Uhuh No, it's been a rough road, so occasionally the performances have suffered your great.

Yeah, well that's to be expected.

And I think this is a very refreshing conversation actually to be having about acting, because some people take acting very seriously and the idea that.

You can never have made mistakes or you're not talented because you once made a bad choice, or you know what I mean, right, or there are things that like I think it's okay for me as an actress to be like I can't do romance, Like I just can't, right, right, right.

Oh yeah, exactly, I know.

And I'm like, that's not happy fire, I'm being objective.

Okay.

Yeah.

So was there ever a point in your career where you had a lull where you didn't know if you were going to continue acting? Yes, so I just can't doing something for that many years that's your whole life, Yeah it is, Yes, I like, you never wanted to be a secretary or anything I did.

I wanted to be all those stereotypical things that actresses want to be, a therapist or interior decorator, so I like, you know, tooy around with those things. And then when I went to high school, I was sort of like, I already have this thing, and if I just do this thing, I don't have to do any more homework.

Yeah, so I'll never have to study again, so le'tll just do this.

My end of my twenties, I really wasn't working very much, and then I did a TV show pan Am, and then when that was canceled, I really didn't work very I mean I worked, but not the level I wanted to work at.

And so were you able to afford to like live financially?

Yeah?

I thought I was able to support myself, but by doing things that like, you know, I like watching Lifetime movies. I don't really want to be in them, right, but you know that is one way that I supported myself during that lull, and.

There's you know, there are other things.

Well.

It's also nice also be able to come out of that low and now look back and be like wow, because some people would have too much pride to do something like that. Oh not that Lifetime is the bottom of the barrel, because I also enjoy watching Lifetime movies.

I mean that's what.

Dreams in bed were made of. You know, like Sunday days before we had all of these streamers, that's what you did on a Sunday was watch one Lifetime movie after another.

But I hear you about not wanting to be in.

Them, you know, ye, not your hurt's desire.

No, no, no, So But then this TV show I'm on now, yellow Jackets, really changed that for me.

Yeah. Of course, huge hit Yellow Jackets, which is on Showtime with Melanie Lynsky.

I mean you have such a great cast.

Yes, anybody's so incredible.

That's the other thing.

You've worked with so many incredible women, from Winona Rider to Share to this whole cast of Yellow Jackets. Talk to me about that those relationships, Like, is there someone who's had a huge impact on you that you only spend a short amount of time with.

Well, I think that all of the women I worked with when I was very young, you know, Like my first movie was with Share, my second movie was with Angelica Houston. I worked with Ellen Burston in between those movies, Like, I worked with a lot of older women at the time that were just so self possessed and powerful without being dickheads and smart and just educated me in so many ways. And I think that that was really helpful for me to see as a little girl.

Yeah, well, because it sometimes I think when you have experiences with people like that that are like huge, kind of almost figureheads, it's not even about them necessarily teaching you. It's about watching them do their thing exactly and learning from them, right. Yeah, because Share is such a force, and I think I heard you talk about her once that she was like kind of you know took care of you on set since you were such a young kid.

She would hide me in the back of her trailer when they had production meetings because she didn't want me to ever feel like I didn't know what was happening, and it made me feel nervous.

Oh wow.

Yeah.

So, and she was like, I know they're not going to like going to think I'm crazy if I want you to be in the production meeting, So you just sit in the back so you can hear what's going on.

Oh that's very cool.

Yeah.

And there was also I didn't realize it at the time, but we were well I did realize this.

We were changing.

The director was being replaced, and one of the reasons he was replaced was because he really didn't like my performance. And I think that she was afraid that somehow I would hear that, like some little bit of that, and then turn it into something bigger. So she wanted me to hear the actual production meetings.

Yeah.

Yah.

So when you have a career that that is this long, right and successful, even though you've had some lows, which is to be expected. I don't know anybody who hasn't. What is your relationship to your work and to your career.

Well, it took me a really long time to consider myself an artist, really, not until I was in my thirties. Uh yeah, like late thirties, like after all the opportunities had passed, and I was like, I was an artist I never appreciated.

You know.

That was when I really came to terms of it and finally accepted myself.

But I feel very strongly now about my work, whereas in the past I didn't.

Really.

I had a very sort of nihilistic attitude towards many things, and one of them was my work. But now I feel very connected. I feel very passionate about it. I feel very protective of it. And I think I used to view all that stuff as someone being pretentious, and so as I've gotten older, I've gotten more comfortable with like, that's not pretentious. It's just somebody who you know, is treating their talent or skill the way it should be treated.

It's kind of how you feel when you're in a situation when it's mostly like male dominated, like in most every industry basically, and you want to be like the girl that gets along with everybody, you know. Like I've had that experience where I want to be the girl that's like the cool girl. But you don't realize in doing that, you're sublimating what you need. And then you're also sublimating the women around you because you're trying to

You're not difficult, you're fun. You get the joke. You know you guys can be dirty around me.

I get it, I get it, And you don't realize how damaging that is until you are older.

And realize that that's false.

You're basically feeding into this whole male domination by acting like that instead of congregating with the women. Yeah, so I would imagine that's how you feel about like how many people feel about their craft too. It's like what makes you a strong actor? Like you saying that you thought that was pretentious is actually empowering, right to know what your skill set is, yes.

And standing up for yourself and you know, being able to come and say, you know, I do my best work when this is what I need, but also like being willing to reciprocate that for other people. And yeah, and what I've noticed too, is like the more you stand up for yourself, it inspires people around to sort of set their boundaries and their needs, which is kind of put in line with what you're saying as well. You know, it's beneficial to everybody.

Because it's like you've saw the example of people like Sharon Ellen Burston, Angelica Houston, and then you want to set that example also for the younger people that you're going to be working with.

Yeah, and it's easier for other people to stand up for themselves when someone else is doing it right next to them, you know what I mean. When especially on a cast with many actors, like if one actor agrees to like sit on the side of the road in between.

Setups, then everybody has to sit on the side of the road, you know what I mean.

But like, the more people stand up and say like, no, actually, I'm going to go to my negotiated place to sit down until you're ready for you know, the more other people stand up for themselves, the more everybody can't know.

Okay, and you're a mom, that's right, you have two children, I do.

I have a ten year old and a two Oh wow, she's almost three years old.

Okay, and so how is that being a mother? It's good.

I mean, I love being a mother.

I love my kids, but I think, just like most mothers, sometimes it's absolutely awful.

What are the awful It's.

Just like fighting with your kid to do homework, school, anything school related to a nightmak's.

Worse in these towns than it is everywhere else in the world. New York and LA like, for school is a nightmare on multiple levels for children and the work, but also because of the parrying to get into schools and having to like, you know, basically submitted like a.

College admission time.

Yeah, when you're when you're six months pregnant, it's really scary.

Stuff is scary.

And then when you have a child that turns into like a wolverine feral creature anytime you're like, do your thirty minutes of reading, Wow, and that's your ten year old, Like it's yeah, it's that partly don't enjoy.

But there's lots of fun stuff too.

Yeah, obviously, obviously I just always like to focus on the negative.

I did do, though, and then I end up sounding like such a jerk.

No, no, okay, well tell us your favorite parts too, So we don't only have that in the interview.

Of being a mother. Mom like what, they're very snugly.

It's snugly, but think about them all.

I want you to, like think about a moment that really made you go, oh my god, Like this is magic.

I think.

Well, I spend a lot of time with my son and we travel together, and the last couple of flights we've taken, Like, he's just it's it's just fun to see.

Them learn and grow.

And like now the way he travels is exactly the way I travel. I like he knows everything and like how even to ask for things and how we do it and where we line up and how early we need to be at the gate because mommy's crazy, and.

It's just it's just really it's just fun to see it.

You know.

Yeah, And have you been married or is that Yeah?

I've been married twice. This is my I'm on my second marriage.

Oh you're on your second marriage. Well, congratulations, so exciting.

I got through that first one.

That's great.

That's a practice marriage exactly exactly.

And how did you two meet?

Well, he has been doing hair in for fashion for god like twenty years and I met him on a photo shoot, but I was still married, so I didn't really meet him until after I was separated, like two years later.

And did you get married when you were young your first marriage?

No, I was thirty one.

Oh okay, so you know, well it's not his day because you have your son from that, So there you go. That's your net gain. Yes, yes, right, did you find I mean I wonder what it's like because you weren't married to a famous person, right, So what did you feel like? How did you feel about that dynamic when one person is famous and the other person is it?

I mean, it's not great all the time, you know.

I wonder what it would be like though to I mean two famous people? Is that better or is that worse?

I don't know.

I have never dated anyone famous. Yeah, so I don't know. Yeah, I don't know.

I don't.

You know, it's it's weird, like people defer to you a lot of times, don't acknowledge the other person totally.

Things like that that just aren't nice.

You become a plus one, yeah, person becomes a.

Plus one, and you know, I'm not comfortable with that, but you know, it's just human nature.

Yeah, it is human nature. And some people are okay in that role? You know, that's saying there's a gardener and there's a flower. Like, there's a flower and there's a gardener. I love that because like I want to be the flower and I want my person to be the gardener. Yes, I'd like to, but that sometimes you have two flowers and you're like, where's the fucking gardener?

Now there's no water, just like.

And that's a really hard I think, Yeah, dynamic.

I can't even imagine.

And do you think it keeps you more grounded because you seem fairly normal and this short time we've spent together, you seem fairly normal.

You know.

I don't actually like attention.

I don't like attention, and I just find that interesting when actors say that.

I know it's weird. I don't like my picture taken. I don't like attention. I love being in like the outside of the room and watching people. I'm not overly friendly, but my husband is like incredibly like carrious and warm and takes.

Care of everyone in the room.

So it really works with Mark because even if somebody would were to treat us as me with a plus one and he's my plus one, well, the plus one's the only one talking to you, so you know, so he actually becomes the guest.

You know, great, it works.

That's cute.

And who what about your so your daughter's too with Mark?

Right?

And what's her personality?

Like, she's amazing.

She looks exactly like you. I would imagine you have very strong, dominant features.

She looks a lot like me. I think we have the same eyes.

And then my son has my eyes but they're bright blue, which is pretty amazing. He's really quite gorgeous. And she's so beautiful and adorable. But she's like a feral creature and she's very she has a lot of boundaries and she's very strong. And I was like, my son was just like attached to me, needed me all the time. And you have to ask her permission to kiss.

Her, like Cleo, Momy's gonna kiss you good bye now, and she's like, no, Mommy, not today.

That's funny.

I was actual this trigger treating thing for my nieces and refews on. My assistant Karen has a daughter, Willow, who's three, and she kisses everyone on the lips. Everyone was like, you have to meet Willow, She'll kiss you on the lips. I'm like, I'm coming over. I want to kiss on the lips from a little fat nugget. She's such a nugget. And of course I didn't get one, you know, but I was like, what are you guys going to do when you send her to school?

She can't just go around kissing everybody on the lips like she'll grow.

But when I'm like to learn about.

Strangers, I kiss everybody on the lips. But I like having boundaries at three. That's pretty funny.

Yeah, she's amazing. She just she will say no.

She will say no touching right now, please, And I need some space. Wow, I frustrated.

I need some space.

And then I'm like, okay, cool, go take your space. And yeah, she's just very willful, very strong. She's big, very tall, which is surprising because I'm not very tall. But yeah, she's she has like a cat like personality. So when she finally does that completely melt just is all over you. It feels really good because you feel like it's really based on something.

Yeah, like with cats.

That's an interesting way to describe your relationship with your daughter.

I think that's intriguing.

I have a lot of respect for her.

That's great.

I have respect her too, just a.

You also respect her. She really commands a lot of respects.

Okay, so we're gonna take a break and we'll be right back with Christina Ricci. And we're back with Christina Ricci.

Well.

Our first email comes from Rebecca. She says, Dear Chelsea, I'm a twenty eight year old codependent millennial who was in a controlling relationship. I finally sought professional help, and therapy and medicine helped me begin healing. In my journey of healing, rediscovery and homecoming, I met a man who helped me become a better version of myself. We met a little over a year ago and have been together ever since. It's the partnership I want in my life.

Wow.

Yeah, and he.

Doesn't like that.

I'm surprised, but I knew his body count. But I'm just surprised he's upset about this, right, seems so trivial.

If he's so as.

Great, Yeah it's not over fifteen, but it's more than eight.

Oh, for God's sakes.

The only it's the only contentious point in our relationship and the only thing we argue about. I fear this will never be resolved.

That is so stupid. I mean, this is so stupid.

Yeah, that's what I was going to say.

You're fine.

I do you have a time.

I tried to count how many people I've had sex with, you know, when you're in your twenties, and you're like one, two, and then I can't even And then three days later you were like, I remember three more guys I had?

Like I had? I actually wrote them down at one point and then found the list and was adding.

To it forget.

Well, yeah, as you remember, and now do you have more counters? Absolutely?

But it should be limit. I mean, who gives a shit how many people anyone had sex with?

Agreed, The more the merrier, as far as I'm concerned.

Right, And she says, you know, she doesn't want to keep arguing about this, but you know, one of the qualities he wants in a girl someone with a lower body count.

Maybe he needs to do some work on himself and his insecurities.

I think that's true.

You can't.

This is the beginning of it.

Like that is it somebody who's hiding their jealousy and they're hiding their controlling like behavior, and that is going to come out because anyone who cares what you did in your past before you met them, Like, everyone has had sex with lots of people. Some people have had sex with fewer people. But that can't be a stipulation. So if the answer is above the number he feels comfortable with, then what then you're broken up? What does he want her to do?

Yeah, there's no way changes exactly.

But so but he thinks she's lying.

Yeah, he thinks it's more than what she's saying.

I would just say that this is a harbinger of things to come, not a good sign.

Yeah, if you're seeing these little controlling things come out now and you were previously in a controlling relationship, that should be a big red flag that maybe this is more of a controlling relationship than he's let on.

Like you said, absolutely, because I had a relationship with somebody who tried to pretend like he wasn't controlling, that wasn't Oh I love the way you are. I love that you're so free, I love that you ski topless. Blah blah blah. Guess what he didn't like any of those things that I didn't come out until about seven months into our relationship, and I was like, oh, you were pretending that you were okay with my personality, and you're not okay with my personality. So yeah, I would

Yeah. His deal breaker should be your deal break.

Because it's judgment also, and you're not why are you judging the person that you are in love with? Like, why would you judge them?

It has no impact on your current relationship.

No, it has no impact at all.

Yeah right, so goodbye guy.

Yeah the whistle and get out of there.

Yeah yeah, your emotional whistle.

Emotionally unsafe whistle.

Oh I wanted to one really badly. I could be in any situation just like and then like my protective troll like come out from somewhere and be like, oh, what have you done again?

Like pick me up and take me to.

Side, Like I feel emotionally unsafe, right, now.

Well, our next question comes from Dolly, and she'll a Dolly parton.

Didn't we try to get Dolly on the podcast?

Did?

And we're still trying.

She better come on, Dolly, come please? Oh look at this cutie.

Yeah, Dolly, says dear Chelsea. I've been listening to the pod since the beginning. I feel excited to finally have an issue that I feel is worthy of input. My brother in law and sister in law are both thirty six. Let's call them Victor and Kathy. They've been married for almost ten years and have two kids in elementary school. My husband and I have been marginally privy to their ongoing fights, tit for tat, jabs, revenge spending, and recurring

This is our special guest, Christina Ricci today.

Hi.

Oh my gosh, how cool?

I know, right?

Okay, So she just started going to therapy.

She was supposed to this week, and I haven't heard any progress on that, so I'm not sure if that has actually been or not.

But so, what kind of like, how do these fights escalate?

What happens? They scream and yell.

What I've seen is it's more like passive aggressive comments, and then it sort of escalates into them talking poorly about each other in front of the kids, in front of other people. And then it's always alcohol involved too, so you know that always kind of escalates emotions and people aren't acting like their best selves. And yeah, I mean, it just really depends on the situation of what triggers them. It's not like one thing necessarily right.

And what Have you ever had a conversation with your sister in law?

I have, Yeah, and it always kind of gets cut short in a way. It's like a sensitive subject and if I try to bring it up, it will be shut down pretty quick. So that's also a sticking point because it doesn't feel like she's really receptive to anything that I have to say.

Well, she's probably not because they're stuck in this kind of like bad cycle of behavior. So they're probably not very open to hearing any criticism about it because they're both just kind of like swimming, you know, trying to stay afloat. So what are you and your husband thinking about doing? Has he spoken to his brother?

Yeah, we both have talked to the same gender partner, you know, spouse. But yeah, we've really encouraged therapy and going individually and as a couple, and it just has always met with like, we don't have time the kids this, and then we offer to watch the kids and there's like no follow up for them asking for help either.

So I don't know.

I feel like at a loss of not really knowing what to do because I feel that we've both encouraged what we think they should do.

I just think you can't make somebody force people to like go work on their marriage. It's nice that you care and that you're thinking about them and you're observing it. The only thing you can really do is have like a meaningful conversation that is very pointed to say, listen, I see that you're like are you happy? Do you feel happy in this relationship? Like I want to know, because if you do feel happy, then fine, then that's it.

Pretty conflict averse or anti confrontation. So it's more just conversations if it comes up naturally with her, and then I'll give my thoughts on things, but I'm not ever the one that's driving the conversation, if that makes sense, But it's always kind of lingering back there.

When the next fide doesn't happen.

Would you describe their behavior towards each other as like abusive?

I mean, I haven't seen it, but from their personal accounts of things, yes, there is some abusive like verbal abuse, some physical intimidation, some yeah of that other stuff going on too. So that's also why I feel like a push against like I need to do something because of the kids, and like it's impacting their whole household. How old are the kids their elementary age.

Yeah, it's really bad for them.

I mean, if anything, I would say, just really be there for those kids, you know. But I think having an honest conversation with the parents about what this sort of stuff actually does to children's brains, right, how negatively it affects them, Like it can change a child's brain and development, and.

In what kind of partner they choose.

Yes, yes, it.

Has incredibly negative impacts. Fighting in front of children and if it's abusive in nature, then they could already have PTSD and you know what I mean, like really be traumatized. So I think that's the conversation to have. Like, you, guys, you're grown ups. You get to make all your choices, but there's two little kids here who have no say,

Is there any scenario that you could imagine where you and your husband sit down with him and his wife together and have this kind of conversation.

I think so, yeah, because.

Maybe that's a different tact that's serious.

You know, if you're sitting down and you're like, listen, we're here because we're seeing the impact of your relationship and the impact it's having on the children, and we want to support you in whatever way we can. But there is a discussion to be had and all the things that Christina's talking about, like there's all these books to support I mean.

The deal research.

Bring some facts exactly, and bring some and be like, you know, this has such a deleterious impact on kids' brains growing up with that, And you know, you might not think of anything because you guys are used to talking to each other like this, But then you're creating a situation where your kid grows up thinking that's the way you talk to other people, and then they're going to find themselves in a similar relationship or it could have an even more serious impact on them.

You know.

I think you like you show up armed with stuff.

And and in the most loving way obviously to be there for them, But you should make it all about the kids, so that it's that's the focus.

Then they have they're both motivated to do something right.

Yeah, they can be heroes instead of being to blame.

Right, you know, right, And one thing that might be a little bit less confrontational for you or feel a little less confrontational is to ask questions like, is this how you guys want to be behaving in front of your kids? You guys don't want to be fighting, do you? And another thing is I think people think and a lot of times it doesn't, but people think that like

You know.

For example, when Brad and I were first married, we went to a couple's counselor for like two years, and it was great because it gave us these tools, like, for example, if you're kind of arguing about the same thing for more than like half an hour, you just stop, especially late at night, especially if you've been drinking. So it's like actual practical tools that they can get to like disrupt these patterns that they've developed.

And if they shouldn't be together, a couple's therapist will help them become more comfortable with the idea of separating.

Right, And I think you should like present you present yourselves as a support system, like we're, you know, in essence, the closest people to you because we're related to you, so we want to help you. We want to be here for you. We would hope you would do the same thing for us. And this isn't a judgment, it's just it's a little you know, dysfunctional. So like, do you want to help yourselves, because we want to help you.

Yeah, for sure, Yeah, thank you.

Your husband will be down with that, right.

Oh definitely. We're on the same page of everything, so it will be an easy set.

And you know, there is a chance it'll all blow up in your face because they're not going to want to hear the truth, but you have to be prepared for that.

Yeah, And I guess that's also why I'm cautious, because I value the relationship that we have. But yeah, I think that it's worthy.

I think so too.

I think it is very worthy.

What I find to be very disgrestling or I find myself very annoyed by is when people do not.

I'm an interloper.

I like to get involved in people's problems and it doesn't always go well, believe me. But it takes a lot to say something to somebody that is uncomfortable, especially when you're a conflict averse like it an. It's an effort. It's not like you enjoy telling people, Hi, this is unhealthy and this dynamic is unhealthy. No one likes that.

Yeah, you wouldn't be doing it unless you love them really deeply, and that's obviously where this is coming from.

Yeah.

Sure, yeah, you want to follow up with us. If you guys have this conversation, I'll let us know how it goes, for sure.

I will.

Okay, cool, best of luck, dollly bye, Dolly, thanks for calling it.

Thank you.

Well.

That was very she was sweet.

Yeah, no, I know. I hope that all kind of work.

I mean, it's just so interesting because sometimes are you are you an interloper at all.

Do you get involved with like if.

I know, but I don't really have I have a few. Well, actually I have a few, very few close friendships where I would, but I have in the past been like yeah with certain girlfriends.

Time to cool it or get your shit together.

Yeah, but it's very difficult.

It is very difficult. Yeah, especially if somebody would can't hear anything you're saying. Yes, you know, but most people can't. In my experience, most people are like, oh my god, thank you so much. And when people have interfered in my life and told me like, hey, you're a little bit off the rails right now, I have never been more grateful.

And I love it I experienced. Yes, feedback means people care about you, exactly. Yeah, it's take it.

It's so it's effortful to actually have that uncomfortable conversation.

So you have to know it's coming from love.

It's not like people want to like, what would be the motivation otherwise.

Right, right, exactly. Well, our next question comes from Beth. She says, Dear Chelsea, I'm at thirty three year old female that is sick of my familial bullshit. I'm a middle child of four, and we grew up in a church cult and were raised by emotionally neglectful parents, one with alcoholism and the other a shopaholic. I was the happy child who has all turned out so well for people. Yes, Elias right always is a good story. I was the happy child who was always eager to please and stay

Look at you your standing while you're sitting, and you're alive, and you survived a cult.

Look at you.

I did it was you know, a lot of speaking in tongues and weekend retreats for church. But here we are a blessed non believer.

Christina just said she was born into a mini cult.

Yeah, but mine had no religious not mine, my father's, not my faults, had no religious affiliations. It was pure therapy based therapy. It was called the Center for Emotional re Education, and it started with he had a primal scream therapy group that then became his Wow, hecolytes.

But why does it that doesn't sound I mean, cults have a very negative connotation. They're not positive.

Really, No, because yeah, because the whole one person wanting to control everybody else is right, doesn't always want normal impulse. No, So that's usually a man healthy, yes, usually genuinely nefarious, not.

A man who's having sex with everyone. Yeah.

Probably.

I'm of the notion I think when you have exhausted all possibilities, like I understand families, family. I'm very close to my family. I think highly of remaining trying as hard as you can to be close with your family. But when you're dealing with that situation, it's so irrational, you know. And I'm a fan of just saying enough is enough and moving on so that you can enjoy yourself and enjoy your life and be happy with your partner.

Yeah, I hadn't seen my father since I was fifteen when he died. I was like thirty eight for context, But mus you died, Yeah, and don't I don't speak to one of my siblings, And it is you know, you do have. I've experienced a lot of guilts over the years about it. But at the same time, it's those are negative influences on me. They were toxic. It was not healthy for me. So you need to protect yourself.

You do. And like the idea, like the toxicity that these people have, like the impact it has on you is really never Like you can't overstate that enough that the impact that having that kind of negativity around you will yield in your life. You really you're choosing, like this is your opportunity. You didn't get to choose whether or not you were born into a cult. Now you get to choose what your future is going to look like, and so you have every right to just say enough

How many siblings do you have?

I have three siblings, and I'm really close with my sister and my oldest brother, and then I'm close with my mother. But you know, my father was a crazy person, and unfortunately one of my brothers was. You know, it's not his fault because he was an abusive situation, but it resulted in behavior that was not safe for the other children around, right, and.

When it's a big and when that happens, then there is it doesn't of course, it's no one's fault of the circumstances they're born into. But that kid doesn't mean that you're allowed to be around them like that. You have to allow yourself to you know, allow them to be around you or what have you.

Yeah, there's just so many outside opinions, and I was just so curious to hear thoughts from you gals of you know what that looks like? Of you know, well, you should be thankful your parents are alive. And it's like, well, when everything they say is a judgmental comment or something you know coming at you that isn't loving and accepting. Should I You know, I don't think so. With my own maternal mother, it's it's never been accepting and loving. There's always been judgment.

Yeah. I mean, you get to choose now as an adult, how you want to be treated and who you want around you. And families should be held in almost the same standards as friends, you know. If they don't, Yeah, if you don't enhance each other's lives, then what's the point. We can all feel bad enough on our own.

Why are you in it exactly?

Don't need like an extra person to make you feel worse.

Yeah, it's just something that's always felt, Like, you know, it's a guilt that I haven't been able to let go of of. Well, they're alive and they're there, so why don't you keep trying. We'll both parties have to try, and it's just been such a hard thing to try to let go of of. Yeah, they're alive, but they're just kind of shitty. It's just not healthy.

Yeah. I think one thing I would encourage you to do, Like, if you are making this decision to go no contact, like for forever or for an extended period of time is to maybe this is through meditation, maybe this is through therapy, but find a way for yourself to sort of release some negativity around it.

And the guilts.

The guilt can be a real killer, you know, like it's it's I used to wake up in the middle of the night.

That's my biggest problem is the guilt. Because right now I'm doing so well on my mental health space, but when I'm not, that guilt seeps back in and it's like, you know, you're a bad daughter, You're a bad child, you know, whatever the case, and it's like, but no, I'm not.

I think the more you do I don't know, just from personal experience, the more I did work on feeling like I was the most important person to myself, you know, then you feel less guilt or viewing yourself as your own child in a way, you're protecting you, you know, you little you from things you couldn't protect yourself from before. Just there are different ways that you'll learn in therapy to view the situation or from doing research or reading that will help you feel less guilty.

I guess, yeah, I think the guilt is a big thing for everybody because you can always go back to that.

But I love what she just said.

Christina just said about acting like it's your own child, Like, would you allow your child to be treated this way? Would you allow your child to be in a relationship where they're constantly being judged and made to feel bad, and then the partner, the person that they chose, is also you know, being judged. No, you're setting yourself up

You, right exactly. Yeah. The biggest revelation I had this year was I have a couple family members who have had children, and you know, they're getting to an age where now I had those memories as a child, and my mom said to me, and I'm like, I would never say that to my nephew and my niece ever and my own mother, you know, and dad did that, and it's like, I would never do that, you know, as their aunt who loves them. Why would you?

Ever?

It's are your.

Parents still in the cult?

Did you say?

Or are they out of it?

No? But they're still avid Christians and love to use that guilt against.

You, which is stupid. Yeah.

All religion, you know, like just it's insane. Is the root of all discord in our world? You know, yes, it all comes down to religion.

Like yeah, And what's crazy is so yes, they're avid Christians, but so were my in laws, the most loving and accepting humans who know I don't believe in God, but couldn't care less, you.

Know, with them, Go be with them, you know, that's where the light is. Go towards the light.

Yeah, I'm swimming towards it.

Okay, great, you can swim, walk, you know, rollerblade however you want to get whatever? Yeah, yeah, girl, get after it. Well, that's good. I'm glad. Do you feel better now?

My only question, I guess would be because right now I am so good mentally what I've worked on throughout this year. When I am in my darkest places, in my depression and anxiety, and that guilt comes in. You know, what would be your biggest advice there to try to talk myself out of that. That's where I struggle the most, is when I'm not doing okay mentally.

Well, that's where everyone struggles the most, and so well, you know a good example of this is that book Letting Go. You should pick up that.

I just started listening to it.

You did, Oh yeah.

Then there you go.

It's there's a whole section about guilt and it's really quite beautiful. And I actually tried this the other night. I was stoned. So I just want to put that out there because that helps me get to a little like more of a meditative place when I'm trying to be in touch with myself. But I had I was having all these kind of like negative emotions and I hadn't for a couple of weeks. I was feeling pretty high and vibing pretty high, right, and I had read Letting Go, and I just just.

Set me straight.

I read it every couple of years. It's this book by David Hawkings. Have you ever heard of it?

I have?

Okay, And I was sitting there and I was like, okay, the negative feelings you can't repress or suppress. You have to acknowledge, and guilt is one of those feelings. So you acknowledge that it's there, and you kind of think about where it is in your body. You know, when you're feeling anxious or uneasy, it's usually in your stomach, or it can be in your chest, and sometimes it's in your head, right, like you feel pressure.

And so I.

Remember I was lying in bed, I smoked a little bowl, and I was like, I wonder where these feelings are coming from. What is the motion behind it? Just like the book says like am I feeling insecure? Am I feeling fearful? Do I feel scarcity? Like where is this coming from? And I was like, don't try to figure out what it is, just acknowledge that the feeling is there.

And you make terrible choices, right, And I didn't behavior just leave it to let me tell you.

Yeah, yeah, so you seem awesome and you seem, you know, like a beautiful person, and I don't want you to feel like, you know, hampered by your family or this obligation to them. You know they've worn out there welcome and you don't have to write them off forever. But when they want to come around in a loving, positive way, then you will welcome them with open arms.

Yeah, that makes complete sense. I'm looking forward to that chapter, just a couple of chapters in not there yet.

Okay, good, you'll see what I'm talking about.

That's wonderful.

Thank you, Thank you so much, Beth.

Thanks everyone, have a good day.

Do you guys have any idea what I'm talking about when I say that you.

Describing, I had no idea that you could, that you would ever be able to have that experience in such a tangible way. I mean, neither felt like letting things go to me is always felt like a metaphor yea, not just like.

It right right, but it is book. They tell you exactly what to do, like you know, to sit with these feelings that are uncomfortable and then surrender like Okay, I feel I feel envy or whatever the feeling, because but.

Do you engage with thoughts like do you like delve in and you're like, great, so I feel envious. I'm going to really experience how jealous I am of.

No, No, it's not like I feel envy.

I accept it. It's here, Okay, okay, it's here, like I'm not in denial because you know, sometimes if I felt envy in the past, I would go I'd push it away, like oh no, no, I just don't like that person. It's like, no, no, you're envious. You don't not like this person, You're.

Just being you know.

I would just just completely ignore what's behind all those thoughts. So that was a pretty metaphysical thing that happened to me the other night, and I was like, oh, and it's a constant, like you don't just surrender that and then the feeling is gone forever. It can come back and then you have to do the same thing again. But now I know that I actually felt it, like moved through my system.

That's crazy. I want to try that.

Yeah.

It's like the min body connection, like when you when you start to be able to feel okay, I have this emotion, but where is it physically? And then you realize like, oh yeah, it's in my stomach or it's here, or it's here, it's here, and then you kind of process it a little bit more.

Yeah, yeah, well all right, we got to share that today.

Yeah, well, let's take a quick break and we'll do a little QUICKI sister drama.

Oh I love it.

Okay, we're gonna take a break and we're going to come back and wrap up with Christina Riccie.

And we're back.

We are back. So our last email comes from Missy. Her subject line is my sister got pregnant to compete with me here, Chelsea, I've had a long history of my two years older sister trying to take every milestone in my life and turn it into a traumatic event in her life. When I got engaged years ago, she faked a cry for help suicide attempt. I've always had her back, despite her obvious hatred of me. She's married now with a four year old son, and she's told everyone,

What do you think?

It's a tricky want?

It's tricky because I do think that a lot of this has to do with.

Perspective, you know what I mean?

Well, like she's it outside of in another context.

All of this could just be coincidence, yeah.

And like people living their lives and things happening at unfortunate times. But if you're a person who's been in the relationship and knows that it's more loaded than that, then there's that element too. But I think in situations like this, I always feel like the only power I have is to not is to choose to not.

Be affected by it.

Yeah, like, why does it lessen your pregnancy any to have someone else get pregnant?

Also, yeah, I would say that you're you're actively being You're part of the problem because of your reaction to your sister. And if if your sister really is doing these things to get a rise out of you, or that is part of her agenda, it's working. So you actually have to like retreat and actually figure out that your life doesn't have to be impacted so negatively by her. And I know that you're probably going, but you don't understand what she's done, all the things she's done to me.

Yeah, and I think especially since you are going through fertility stuff, like it makes everything feel so much more heightened.

Yeah, just in general, this is a very difficult time. Yeah, we're dealing with this a major election, We're dealing with women's rights being rolled back. You're dealing with that IVF, which is a total dipsy doodle on your brain, chemistry and everything. So you have to also just like sometimes take your emotions out of the situation and look at

Yeah, I also feel like she may be doing stuff to intentionally hurtful, But there's also a world in which it's possible that she's just so self involved and like thoughtless, that she doesn't think about how it's impacting you at all, and the result is the same hurt and everything, and the what you need to do as far as like freeing yourself from this is the same. But she may also just be like not thinking about anybody but herself, right, yeah, yeah, right.

Okay, Well, on that note, Christina, how would you rate your advice giving today?

I mean, I think I'm not bad. I need to learn a few more words.

I need to increase my vocabulary and perhaps my confidence, but I think.

I did Okay, Actually I would give you an a.

But I do think that we should make emotionally unsafe whistles.

Yeah, well maybe that's what we'll name this episode, emotionally unsafe whistles.

That's not a bad idea. Do you have a whistle?

No?

I don't.

Okay, I'm going to get your I'm going to get that. Such my next offering to oh yes, a great holiday present, great Valentine's Day present.

Great all of the things that are coming up.

It's cat full of Spiders, Tarot deck and guidebook Christina Reachie's Personal Guidebooks. So this is going to be really fun for your family members and your friends and all of the things that we have coming up in the world. So please get yourself a copy. I'm going to take this to Whistler and play this with my friends. Not that you play tarot cards.

I say that to you sometimes I keep making my son, ten year old son sit through readings.

What is your BITI so what is your favorite like thing to add?

Like when do you go to tarot cards when you have a question about your life? Do you go?

I have trouble focusing in on the issue at hand many times in my life, So sometimes I'll just kind of shuffle and draw a card, and that theme or question allows me to like approach whatever sort of confusion I'm going through from a different perspective, like just the idea that like, sometimes you're asking yourselves the wrong questions and so this is a way of bringing in different questions and ideas to what you're going through. So a lot of times I'll draw a card and just be like, well,

Okay, well great.

I love it. You were so fun.

I love me.

He was really happy to be on. I've been a huge hand of your so.

Oh my god, why weren't you ever on Chelsea lately?

I don't know why wasn't I I was during my drive, I was during my dry spell when I couldn't get couldn't get it.

You're like that has been you could have at least been on the round table. All right, thank you, Christina.

We'll see you next week. Okay, guys, stand up shows that I have coming up, I am going to Texas this weekend.

I'm going to Houston.

I'm going to Austin, Houston and then Sugarland, Texas. Then I have my Specials taping in Montclair, New Jersey. Those are all sold out. I have San Diego on eleven twenty nine that has tickets available.

Oh.

I'm coming to Vegas on November thirtieth, right after Thanksgiving, and there are tickets available for that. And then I'll be in Des Moines, Iowa December fifth, December sixth is Omaha, and then December twenty eighth, I'm coming to New Orleans right before New Years, and then I'll be in Atlanta, Georgia on December twenty ninth.

And those are the rest of my stand updates for this year. It's over New Tour New Year.

If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and be sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert executive producer Catherine Law and be sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot com