Hi, Catherine, greetings from Portugal.
Hi, how are you?
Hi? Am good, how are you doing.
I'm doing fantastic.
I am just taking the day off of work today, actually after this, so it's for this.
I just drove two and a half hours with my cousin, her lover and their daughter who had diarrhea.
On the side of the road by a free We took us about forty seven minutes to get all of our luggage in the trunk.
My tour European tour officially ended last night. I did my last show in Libs. In Libs in Lisbon, I developed the lisp. I had my last show in lis Boa is liz Boa. That's how they say it there, liz Boa in Lisbon.
And I was very tipsy on stage last night because we were celebrating all day.
We were walking.
We'd stop and we got Moscow mules, and then we had sang Gria, and then by the time we got to the show, things are the reals. The wheels really came off. So it was a perfect way to end my tour. We had the best time and the audiences in Europe. I'm so appreciative of everybody who came out. It was such a fucking blast. And I've never walked so much in my life.
And did you think that you'd be going on tour with a toddler?
I mean, was that I did not? She wanted she had to come on stage last night too.
She always wants to come on stage, and so we told her if she came on stage and said you're a fucking bitch, that she could come on stage. But so she was practicing backstage, but then she wouldn't do it when she got on stage, which is probably for the best.
Yeah, it's a lot, it's a lot.
But she loves it.
She loves She's like every night when she goes to sleep, she's like, is there a show tonight? Can I go on stage? She They joined us like halfway through the tour. So yeah, it was pretty it was pretty funny. I'm just so glad I don't have children.
Do you know what I mean?
Yes, you get like little bites, you know, little taste.
Amount of times I mean, the patience that's required, the amount of times you hear the word mommy. In one hour, it's like nine hundred times mommy, mommy, mommy, mommy. I'm like, oh my god, oh my god, I can't believe I understand why people lose their fucking shit.
Yeah, and also like daddy's there too, so it could be daddy daddy too, but nope, it's always Mommy.
It's always Yeah, she's even. She's like her my niece is like in a relationship with her father. They're like they're like a couple.
And then Molly comes in and like sports every Molly comes in and just shames everybody about everything.
Everyone got sick at some point except for me. Luckily, knock on my gun. That was good. The two of them were very.
Hungover this morning, and I was at the gym like I always am. She's like, wow, you really are an alcoholic. She's like, you can survive anything. I'm like, you just need to shoot up what I'm shooting up? Okay, I take all these peptides I'm taking because I can handle almost anything.
Yes, So do you get to have a little vacation now?
Yes?
Now I'm in Portugal.
I'm at my friend's fiftieth birthday weekend. So I'm here for about four or five days. And I've never been here before. The all Golf Coast. I've been a Portugal a bunch, but never here, so we'll see what happens. I mean, any possible anything.
It's great.
Get you have earned it. It's time for some time off and you.
Get to just hill a little bit. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Okay, So who do we have coming up today?
Well, today we have the lovely Maren Morris, who has a new album called Dreamsickle.
Yes.
I love Mary Morris and I bumped into her on a television show. So this is perfect timing that we had her on I like and when she said fuck you to country music for to not being accepting or for well, there was a bevy of reasons, but it was basically directed at their sexism, misogyny and you know, homophobia.
Yeah.
No, she is cute, she's smart, she is fun, she knows her mind.
She was a great guest, So okay, bring her on. Welcome to Morris. Everybody is hi, Marin. I'm happy to see you. I'm good. How are you doing?
Long time?
No?
See, well we just ran into each other at one of those shows. I don't want to say the wrong one though, So I'm scared. Is it access Hollywood or is it to I think I access Hollywood? I mean I should know because I know the girls there as whenever I roam through there, so I don't want to insult them by saying the wrong show. So if I do whatever, it's on me, Maarn, It's all on me, you know what.
It was fun.
I was so happy to see you because I met you years and years ago, as we discussed, when Maren was opening for Keith Urban and I was doing my Netflix show, so that was probably like almost ten years ago.
I interviewed you on a tour bus.
Yeah, and you were a little baby and you didn't have a baby yet, and now you have a baby and you're not a baby anymore. But what I really have respected about you is how outspoken you are. It really is amazing to see when you said basically fuck you to country music. And I know you weren't saying fuck you to country music, but you were saying fuck you to really the industry of country music.
Yeah.
I think mostly just like the pillars of establishment, where it's these pockets of like MAGA infiltration since twenty sixteen, which is truly like when I guess we met, it's just taken the a nose dives and it's not everyone in that world like there's tons of people. I live in Nashville, so I mean, I haven't like become an expat of every facet of this.
I love living here, but yeah, I.
Mean it's certainly just tough to sort of want to make music you love and then deliver it to a space that feels safe and inclusive and you know, celebratory. So I think I just had to sort of go back to the drying board and figure out like what I truly wanted to do.
And how did you come to that decision?
Was that just your own Like did you have to discuss this with anybody in your life before you were public about it? Or is this something that you just felt so passionately about that you had to say something.
I mean, I think it was becoming more galvanized, as you know, the pandemic was stretching on, and we were just trying to figure out how to tour again and a safe way. And I think it just really like opened up a lot of blind spots of like people I worked with and just the community here and most of it is so like supportive and loving, but I did I did have to kind of figure out, like
what do I want to do going forward? Musically, which you know, I think I've always been a blurred genre line kind of artist because I'm just more about like the songwriting element and like it comes out how it comes out. But yeah, I think just making some like intentional decisions on where I like send this music to. And you know, the thing is is like I'm always going to.
Love country music.
It's so tied into my DNA of how I listen to music, how I write music. It's all through this like portal of like the Nashville way of right songs, co writing, lyrical structure, the like abab of it all. That's I can't like, I don't want to get rid of that part of myself. I love country music's honesty and like telling real people's stories. But I always go back to this interview in like the late eighties of
the Highwaymen. So it's like Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson, Christofferson Waylan and they're all talking about like funding public education over you know, excessive military spending, and you know, just giving back to the poor and the elderly, like these icons these outlaws, which a lot of these people will wear on a T shirt like they don't remember what these dudes were fucking talking about.
From day one.
And that's country music to me, which is like writing for the oppressed and writing about those stories.
Yeah, I feel like that's analogous to like how I feel about America, you know what I mean, Like the integrity with which it was founded or with the ideals of what it was always meant to become is probably you can say the same about country music, Like nobody's nothing is founded on hate and bigotry and exclusivity. Things are founded on love and spreading joy and messaging and inclusivity.
And yet somehow we get miired, you know.
Like industries can get miired in this way of thinking and then they can become dominated by that. And like that's how it feels like in our country. Even though I don't feel like we're being dominated by hate, there's enough out there that it feels that way. I always want to err on the side of love and believe that there are more good than there are bad people. So I'm just going to choose to continue to think that way for the time being.
Yeah, I mean, I think I will always have this like intrinsic hope and ambition that I mean, humankind is truly just wanting to feel listened to and connected to one another. I think, yeah, when other like ulterior motives get cropped in, it's just I mean, music and the
arts are a mirror of society. And so when I saw what was going on within the establishment of like mainstream country music, not so much like Outlaw or Americana, it was like a lot of these rich guys caused playing as cowboys with like six thousand dollars ya sell boots that have never touched dirt.
It's like, what's the saying where it's like those boys are.
All hat and no cattle. That's like, that's kind of what was happening. And I mean, like it's just interesting because I feel like at the end of the day, we're all just trying to like live and let live. And I think there's a nationalistic element to America and parts of country music where it's like this is ours, not theirs, and that's just not a vibe I want to be a part of. I want to be like inclusive, and that only makes for better music also when you invite inclusivity and diversity into it.
Because some of my.
Favorite collaborations over like the decades have been those out of left fields duets, like when Willie and rach Charles did their collap together, it was just like so refreshing and it just opened up for better music to come in and Russian and so I think the same with like love. It's like you have to scare yourself and be uncomfortable and hear someone else's point of view or walk of life in order to expand as a human. And you know, writing is just like my extension of that.
But yeah, anyways, this is getting very very existential.
Well, but it's about who cares a shit.
I mean, that is beautiful, Like we all want to grow in love and expand, but some people it's like the people that are limited and the people that are closed off are not thinking that way. They're thinking about
it's a narrow way of thinking. And when you go through different enough difficult stuff and you're a smart person, you eventually understand and maybe not eventually, maybe right away the benefits of expansion and the benefits of growing and open mindedness and actually going towards something that you think you might fear and learning from it. You have a huge new album called Dreamsicle. She's going on tour everybody. She's going on to the US, Europe, UK, everywhere. Tickets
are available at Marenmorris dot com. The tour begins July twelfth. So I've listened to part of this in the in the gym this morning.
It's really beautiful. It's very soulful.
I mean, it's I don't even know how I would describe it in one word because it's there's a lot of different stuff in there. But I'm really just blown away at a And I think this is demonstrative of what so many women experience.
You came out of a marriage, you came out.
Of you know, quote unquote country music, and you had a huge growth spurt from what I can tell. Can you talk a little bit about that. You also had a baby, so I mean that'll do it. Yeah.
I think just literally everything that could change in your life happen and in like five years for me, and you know, it was a slow burn of events like unfolding, and I I think I was just hoping and waiting that someone would reach into my life and tell me how to fix everything. And when you realize on some of those like more isolated nights of just like not being able to sleep and because you just your body
is in fight or flight almost. I think I just had to buck up and be like, no, bitch, it's you, Like you're the one that has to make that decision and figure out like where you go from here.
It's not going to be anyone else. Like I mean, I think you go into.
This like inner child mode of like how do I get out of this? Like who can help me? Like my mom or my dad? But I think, yeah, I just I realized I was expanding and growing at a really fast pace. I think from twenty twenty on, and yes you could you could throw motherhood and the postpartum thing learning about myself not being able to work in that moment. There were a lot of like identity crises going on. But I realized, like I can't look back
and slow down for people anymore. I want to set my own pace and I will sacrifice my comfort and like loneliness or feeling not lonely to move at the pace that I have worked really hard to move at. And I think it's not like a fun decision. It's not a fun aftermath or fall out of a decision like that. But I think now that I'm a little bit more on the other side of it, I do feel like no part of me ever wakes up at three in the morning and it's like I've made a
huge mistake. Like I feel like I sleep better because my body can finally relax and knows that it made the tough but right decision. It's hard to know what day occurred that it all started to shift, but maybe circumstantially, it doesn't to me feel like, oh, let's throw the baby out with the bathwater, like and change everything about my life. It just happened organically to have, you know, all occur at once. But yeah, personal life, professional, all
the shit was just like a tornado. And I was like, I swear to God, if I can like white knuckle myself through this and survive, this is probably the hardest thing, Like I'll endure and I'll be okay if I get through this part.
I think it's so interesting that you say that, because it's so true, Like I know, through some of my difficult moments in life, you are kind of waiting for someone, Like whether it's your agent or your manager, or your sister or your father, you're waiting for somebody to bail you out, to come and say I'll take care of you.
And like I've had so many When I was younger, I had so many of those like kind of tantr me moments like somebody needs to fix this, somebody needs to fix this, and it's like there's only so much anybody else can do about you and your state of mind, which is the first ingredient you need is to have clarity and to have focus in order to lift yourself out of anything.
Yeah, I think I was just maintaining a level of stress and thinking that because I'm used to this level of stress, it's comfortable, and the alternative to that is so in the dark that it's frightening. And now that I've removed that sort of perpetual level of holding the fucking plates up and spinning them no matter the cost to myself and my mental health.
Now that I've removed that, I just see.
How much I was carrying and that was so unnecessary and so unfair to me. So yeah, I think, like the whole rip the band aid off thing is easier said than done. But I do think even if you're operating at a level of like just okay or good ish, you don't know what great is because you've never allowed yourself the space to experience great and I feel like now I can. And I'm like, you have to be like really okay with your own company, and I am. I think that was always like the case was, you know,
since I was a kid. I can internalize and go and hear, and that's probably why I'm a songwriter. But yeah, it's just, yeah, extremely daunting to make those choices. But you know, I just turned thirty five, and I do feel like I'm glad I didn't wait any longer.
It just would have been such a like waste to myself.
Absolutely, And I think there are so many, so many of the people that listen to this podcast are always calling in about that very question, like how do you take a leap?
How do you move in the right direction? Like what is the first step?
And I always think it's just take a step in that direction, you know, and then the second one will follow. But you have to intentionally be like, this is the first thing I'm going to do to change my life and to head into direction that I'm more comfortable with and passionate about.
Yeah, and you more people should talk about like even the little baby step in the correct direction or whatever is nauseating it is you are fighting every safety inside your body to make those choices, whether it's to leave a job or a relationship or severtise with a friend or a family, those decisions, at least for me, because I just feel so much like empathy and I want I never want to let people down.
People.
Please are it feels like you're going to vomit, Like every time you even take the tiniest step to someone else, Like it's huge to your brain and you're functioning.
How did you deal with any of the backlash you got from the country country music industry after you came out publicly?
Came out, No, like against that I came out, got it? Well, I mean too well that you're right right.
Of course that too, but not who cares about that.
About we're all a little gay?
Yeah, exactly so.
And if we're not gay yet, you will be okay by the end of this By the end of this administration, you'll all be gay.
Yeah.
Just date one more man, and I promise you you'll be gay totally.
Somebody tried to I was coming to New York. I'm in New York right now, and somebody's like, I have this guy I want you to set you up with. I'm like, I can't even think about men right now. Okay, just get away from me. I have no interest in a man right now. I have other things to think about. And like, when I get to Europe, I'll be in a different zone.
Yeah, yeah, maybe it's better, you'll fear better over there.
But I mean, I.
Mean, there's there's backlash with like anything that you do that's not normal.
So I think I also, like remember very clearly the chicks backlash of like the two thousand and three Bush era, you know, Iraq war stuff, So like that's like my touchstone of how an industry can black volume or snuff you out or attempt to. And I think, you know, it's slightly better now because of social media and more people can be like exposed to what you're saying and have the context of what.
You're saying and and.
Just yeah, but I was kind of surprised at like how many people reached out to me pately or publicly in support and just being like the courage that it would take to do this or just change up your plans this way. And I wasn't really doing it in the hopes that these people would think that I'm like Joan of Arc or some bullshit. It's like, I'm just attempting to like be happy and I'm going to have to make some major changes for that to be.
A reality, honest, being an honest I mean, you didn't have to say that publicly.
You could have said that privately. There's a real power.
I mean, anytime someone says something like that and it's loud about that in a righteous way, you are paving the way for so many other people that you will never even know about, you know, and not to mention all of the gay country artists that we've learned about since making that announcement.
So like, kudos to you for doing that.
That takes a lot of balls and a lot of guts, because I'm sure there was a part of you that was scared or it was fractured of you that was like, oh my god, what's the backlash going to be like? And I'm all for that because you're helping so many people that you'll never even meet.
Oh well, thank you.
I mean, I think I've always been a loudmouth, and I think it's just from kind of growing up in Texas in this very red state, you know, lots of conservative family and you know, being so mentally online for like post nine to eleven, the chick stuff, things that were happening within the South and in country music on a public level with the war, I mean, the age of millennial that I am is like that's when people really started paying attention because we had to.
It was on our TVs.
And I think it just instilled in me this like kind of rebellious spirit of like where how do I build community in a place which is so red, And like even back then it felt very quaint.
Like people post Trump, it's a little.
Bit different, but I think even back then it didn't feel quite so adversarial. But it's just grown as I've grown my audience. And I think also like I have so many women that work for me and with me, and people of color, people.
In the queer community.
So like that's my backstage and on stage, and then I'm looking at my crowd and it's like each album, each like year even it's diversifying. And I remember the first time I ever played like New York City, it was like the Bowery, I think, and I just I'd never had like gay fans, and so seeing on my first like EP and you're in like the biggest city, so you're like, Okay, this is what you know the city crowd's going to look like. And I was just
obsessed and I just wanted more of that. I wanted people to come to my show and feel like they were safe to do so, and they would make friends at my shows and the crowd. And I've seen this happen like over the last like nine years.
Yeah, So I.
Think part and part soul of building that is letting people know where you stand on almost everything.
Like I think there are some.
Things that I don't blame or shame my peers for not speaking up on because you know, it's fucking hard doing this. But I think in the long run, and I've lost fans along the way, and that's going to happen, is you have like a longer career, you're going to lose people. Like the more that you exist and aren't just like cookie cut and you're a fully formed human being, I think you're going to lose.
People and that's okay. I think that's healthy.
But you're going to like remain with the people that have been there from the jump, that always understood you and you understand them and then like attract the people that you want over time.
Do you feel at thirty five years old? This is a weird question. It's not a weird question, but it's direct. Do you feel like a woman?
Yeah?
I do?
Now.
I thought you were going to say, like, do you feel old? Because I do? Most is but I yeah, I do because.
I think I started doing this so young. I think we talked about this the last time we spoke, you know, in an interview for Matt It was like, I've been touring since I was twelve, So and you lovey.
She loves it.
She loves it, she loves being on the road. I just love the I love the show. Like the energy I get from that. It just feels like a healthy version of like the churches I grew up in. And I think that connection to an energy like that is just it's addictive, yes, but it's also like extremely therapeutic. And so yes, I love the road. But yeah, I'm thirty five now, I have a five year old I've been divorced. Now, Yeah, I feel like a woman. What are the boxes I'm ticking?
I love living alone?
Yeah, like I love having my space. Is that's very sacred. I think, just like not sharing a closet with someone or a bathroom counter, I can have all my shit everywhere. Yeah, I mean that feels very womanly to me. It's just like the liberation of home, like space in your house.
Yeah, it's so nice to be alone, isn't it.
It's so nice to have your own space and be alone anytime I have a boyfriend or share or we go on vacation together. Because I won't live with anyone again. I hope I never do until I'm in a facility, and then I'll live with my and then i'll live with my boyfriend who will be twenty years younger, taking care of me for a fee my mail nurse that
I'm totally happy to pay as a transaction. But I didn't start feeling and I think I guess motherhood also plays a very strong component, because I think once you have a baby, there is a sense of womanhood that comes on. But I didn't start to feel like a real woman until I was in my forties. I always felt like this little girl energy, like you know, Punky Brewster esque, Like, oh you know.
I'm still not really responsible.
I have all of these things, and I have all these people that help me do all these things, but even though I'm running the whole thing, I don't feel like a woman. And so I think it's interesting to find out what ages women do start to feel that way.
Yeah, I mean, I totally get what you're saying, because I do still have this like zest and like energizer bunny esqueness to me, but or maybe on the sort of negative space of that is like again the people pleasing thing or just like the former in me and every element of my life, like it's exhausting, but it's just so hard to break that pattern of myself and like even in relationships, like romantic relationships, feeling like they need the best version of me, like especially off the bat,
like no flaws, no downsides, like everything's peachy, and then you're like, oh my god, like they're gonna fucking ruin it anyways, So just show them all your cards, explore healthy detachment. But I yeah, I mean I feel like a woman. But also like I bet when I turned forty in a couple of years, I'll be like that one was an idiot, like the thirty five version.
So no, I'll be proud at any milestone.
But I do think like there is something yeah with motherhood, but also just like anything like divorce, where it's a failure of the promise and the plan that was made initially, but it's it's also like a success. And I don't want to like sugarcoat it, like it's not fun to go through this. And like also in a public way, have like friends and family that you haven't spoken to in years, like reaching out to you about something in TMZ that feels so private, but like shit happens. It's
part of the job. I just think I've earned my stripes through that.
Yeah, and you can also divorce in a very successful way. So it is a success by many stand and by many measures without referring, you know, to the end of a marriage that in and of itself could be a success when it's not a healthy marriage. So yeah, our whole language around all of it should just be flipped and flip it and reverse it.
That's so true.
I think also because we're over a year out now, like my ex and I and we obviously have our son to co parent, like we get along now and have.
Moved past a lot of it.
But we're neighbors and I'm just so fortunate that we like have put our son above each other's shit and like can truly and it's better for the two of us if we're getting along obviously as well as like co parenting our son. But yeah, I mean, I'm lucky that, you know, we love each other so much still and we have like the highest respect. But also there is that like devastation that like two people that love each other that much they can't make it work in the
real world. It's always going to be multifaceted. But I think ultimately, like we both knew it was probably going to be better this way, which is a success, totally.
Absolutely. I'm not No, we're going to take a break and we'll be right back with Maren Morris.
And we're back with Maren Morris, who has a new album called Dreams to Call and then she's touring all over.
So go to Maremorris dot com to get tickets.
Okay, we have some callers, Maren, are you ready, Catherine, are you ready?
Yes?
Well, this first one is just an email, but Jess says, dear Chelsea, I've been friends with this girl, let's call her Molly, for fourish years now. We met through mutual friends while I was in grad school, and our partners get along very well too. We've stayed in touch a lot, with bi annual trips to see each other.
After I moved out of the town where we met. Fast forward to two years ago.
She's getting married and wants to do a big bachelorette trip out of state. I took it upon myself to essentially plan the entire thing. She was relieved to have the help. The trip went very well, followed by travel to their wedding later that year. All that to say, I spent a lot of time, money, and energy on her wedding. It was a big weekend for me too. The day after her wedding, my fiance popped the question. He planned a little trip and it was just the two of us.
He did get.
Permission from the groom in advance.
When I got engaged, Molly was happy for me, but did not express any explicit interest in the details of my wedding planning. The next time I saw her was on a friend's trip six months later. She did not ask to see my ring, nor did she ask any details about my engagement, which is crazy to me. If I care about some one, I'm curious about a big moment like that. She in fact expressed some annoyance at the timing of the engagement, possibly taking away from the
quote unquote specialness of her weekend. About a week after that trip, she said she could not arrive at my wedding a day early for a bachelorette celebration as she couldn't get the time off work. Then today I receive a text with her essentially saying they might not make it to the wedding due to finances. I'm frustrated and confused. She has a great job as a lawyer, so it's not really adding up without a firm RSVP. How do I know whether I should plan the tables and a
meal for her and her husband? And it's a lot of money to waste if they don't end up coming. Should I address it with her or not? Even bother? Sincerely, Jess.
Wait, so the proposal took place right the day after the.
Day was the wedding, but like in a totally different place, Like it wasn't like at the post wedding brunch sort of thing.
It was far away. Oh okay, And he cleared it with the groom, which I don't think he should have had to do by. Why did he do so?
Yeah, that was the first mistake, clearing it with the groom. I thought it was on the grounds like the brunchiest.
I clarified that with her and she was like, no, no, it was like hours away and just.
I mean, you could ignore it, but I would go at it directly head on and just send her an email going it's clear that you're clear that you're annoyed. You've showed that you've been annoyed with me for getting engaged after your wedding.
I did not plan this proposal. My husband did. Okay, so hey, these are the facts.
B I went above and beyond for your wedding, as I would do again. Like you know, you say, say all of this with as much gentleness and love as you can because you're talking to somebody who's basically having a little bit of a tantrum. And I would do it again. I was happy to be there. I was happy to throw your engate, your bachelorette weekend or whatever she threw for herr shower. Yeah however she wants to call it or whatever it was.
Yeah, bachelorette, Yeah you got it, and I was there. I was happy for you.
It's really disheartening to see you being wawfully about my wedding when you know that the costs that go into a wedding. You understand when somebody isn't going to be there. The fact that you're not coming in for my bachelor weekend after I threw you one hurts. The fact that you're not sure if you can come to my wedding hurts again.
I did not.
Propose to my husband. He proposed to me. It wasn't at your wedding, it was after your wedding. Like, these are things that are not going to matter in six months. I would just be very direct so that you can get you know, really, just call her on her shit and get a direct response so that you don't have to worry about it. Just let me know either way, if you can't come to the wedding, Okay, that's disappointing too, but please let me know so I can save the money,
you know. And I really hope one day you can get past this, because I find this to be very silly. We were all there for your wedding, we were all present, and now I feel like I'm being punished for being proposed to.
That's a good line.
That's how it feels. What do you think, Maren, It's just so weird that all this happened planned her whole bachelorette showed up and like celebrated her, and then they didn't see each other for six months. That feels weird.
Too, because they don't live in the same town.
Oh got it, got it? Yeah, they live a little bit farther apart.
Yeah, I mean's right.
I think just approaching it directly, even though it's gonna suck to hit send because it's like, oh god, like I'm really coming out her a little bit assortibly. But it does cost money when people know show on a wedding and the table setting and like the food and drink, and it's like just out of courtesy even that alone, even if she hadn't planned the bachelorette, it's like you
are SVP no right and whatever. But yeah, I think, just like be direct and she might think that you're like attacking her, but I don't think.
I don't think any of us do. So just clear your mind.
No and say it with love. Start it with like, hey, this is coming from love.
I definitely feel some tension between us, and this is what I'm deducing. You know, you can say as softly as you want to. I'm saying it directly, but you can actually make it much softer. But why not if she's not going to be your friend, find out now? And if if she's ever gonna get caught. People need to be called out on their silly behavior. She's acting like a child. If she's really upset about that, you know,
which she probably won't. She may not admit, she may pretend it's about something else, you know what I mean, because it is embarrassing to admit you're upset about something.
So so what's the word I'm thinking of? Trifle?
No?
Is that a truffle?
Trifling?
Silly fling, silly, stupid truffles? Truffles? I don't know whatever I feel like.
Also, if she still is waffling after you directly ask her like, hey, I need an RSVP and she's like, well, we'd like I think I would say like a no, is okay if we'd love to have you there, but if you really can't, please just let me know, and like we'll assume that you're not gonna come.
Let's just plan on you.
You could do it that and just like yeah, you could also frame it only like that, like listen, it's obvious that you have some issue with me, and not even get into the details and say it's obviously there's some issue here. I'm assuming you're upset about the proposal date, but whether that's really not in my control, that I didn't have any control over that, and you're waffling back and forth about even coming to my wedding. While that's really hurtful. I think what you're trying to say to me,
you're not coming. You know, you could do it that way and like make it more of a closed dooring, and.
You can even blame it on like the wedding planner, Like the wedding planner needs a firm RSVP one way or the other, So like let me know by X date, especially if it's after the actual RSVP date. Well, our next color is Mike, he says. Dear Chelsea. I followed Chelsea from back in the Gray Goose Days to Belvedere. I really respect your point of view on things, and you being a girl's girl is pretty cool. I'm a trans man, which I'm not usually comfortable saying or even
typing out loud. I've always identified as a straight guy. I'm forty four, and back in my day, it was all about being stealth. The world is different these days. I've been with my wife for eighteen years, married together for twenty five. We have an eight year old, and now the two of us are in the process of a divorce. She's been running on emotions, making it legally hard for me financially too, and adding extra stress with our son. I never would have thought we'd be here.
I took my veowl seriously, thinking I was protecting my son and me. I have an attorney, but I'm scared shitless to see what's to come. Do you have anything to to help me maintain focus to get through this with my son? Yet positive enough to not let all this negativity affect my well being. I see it taking over, but I'm getting through. Best wishes, Mike.
Hi, Mike, Hey, how are you doing? Chelsea?
Hi?
This is our special guest Maaron Morris, who joins us today.
How how are you doing.
I'm doing. I'm happy to be here and I'm you know, looking forward to hear what you know? Where you have to welfare? I'm sorry it out.
Okay, no, no, no, So you're you're it's an acrimonious divorce.
I take it.
Yeah, I kind of like neither one of us really did anything, you know, so to speak, that that really it was like, oh my god, you know you cheated
or anything like that that really broke us. I think we've been together since we were young, and we didn't really have proper guidance, and we went through a lot, you know, like there was a lot of death, guilt, a lot of things that I don't think I appropriately dealt with or neither Itchy and I think we were both a little emotionally irresponsible as well as financially, and I think it kind of caught up to us and it was a lot of stuff we never dealt with
coming to a head, and you know, unfortunately, you know, this is where we are, and it's just like I don't even know what to do or how to handle it. I realized I'm very upset and how things are proceeding,
but I'm trying not to get angry. I've related to you for many years, like you've like helped me through a lot of this stuff, and I went through it like it was just like your show Finding You was kind of just awesome, like you know, I would just kind of veg out and watch it, and you know, it was a instruction from life, and at that time, it was just like a long time ago at this point really like work stuff, you know, just regular life.
And then like I started realizing, like I started like not appreciating the little things, and I think a lot of it just came to my head. And when I was ready to deal with that, she wasn't. And now I don't know who she's become. You know, it's scary.
Have you been able to have a conversation with her. Are you able to have a conversation with her about how you're feeling and about moving forward in like a loving way for the benefit of your son and accepting that the relationship is over, but also understanding that there can be a new relationship moving forward so that you can honor the family unit that you had.
I try, you know, and it's like I've tried like several different approaches because I used to, you know, I know, like where I did my wrong short of speakers, not taking care of myself and I went through a lot of loss. And I had mentioned that I'm a trans guy. I don't think like you know, like I always know she accepted that, but there was a lot of things that I don't think I really accepted, you know. And when I was younger, I came out as like a
trans guy. I was part of this community and the city, and I would go on talks and really encourage people. And then like it was like I found this beautiful girl in Long Island who was really straight, you know, and it was like all about being stealth, and she fell in love with me and accepted me. And I just can't believe twenty five years later, like going through all this stuff, like we're here, you know, and our
son is the most precious thing in the world. He's non verbal, he's autistic, and he really needs us more than most little guys and girls, you know, and it is a shame, and I don't know, you know, I needed to become humble and how I relate to you as well as there are things that I felt like were so important to say and I needed to be heard, and I needed to take a lot of steps back, and I think I kind of took him too late. You know.
That's okay, though, That's okay. Everything's it's okay. All of these things that you're saying, are okay. It's part of your life and it's part of how you deal with it. Do you have a therapist?
I do, and it's it's been great to have that and to see that that help and the self reflection is amazing. And I mean, like I have a lot of work to do, don't get me wrong, but even like stepping out, what encourage me to email you is I would and saw you by myself. That's something I never would have done. I would a ticket to see you in King's Theater. My english was messed in that emails, like compleaning it up Catherine, because I was just so excited that I was doing it, and I was like,
you know, it's good. I'm going to reach out and just let her know it, you know. Like so just like that alone was a huge step for me to just humble, be humble, like to be able to walk in there humble but confident. You know, I lost both and I think that was part of what she fell in love with me. And I want us to kind of kind of regroup, like I even heard of like co parenting counseling, Like all right, we accept, you know, marriage is over. We're gonna, you know, live apart, but
like there are so many resources. I even brought her a rage room, you know, and maybe we have like anger or resentment, like banging out, you know, hit some stuff like you know, you just like I don't even know how to navigate this at all, you.
Know, And Okay, well it's one step at a time. First of all, you have to take it one step at a time. How old were you when you transitioned?
So is interesting, That's an interesting question. I think I always knew. By the first time I introduced myself, I was very lucky. I was going I was probably like ten to eleven going into sixth grade. I was so lucky. I was in the movie seeing Terminator two, whatever year that was about, and I saw a girl that I liked, and she assumed, you know, like I got my haircut short. And I was very, very fortunate transition wise. But now later in life, I almost feel too fortunate.
If that's weird or not, well, it sounds to me like what you're missing is like there's a lot of delayed grief that's coming up that sounds like it's probably related to your transition and not getting the appropriate therapy going through that transition, like you saying you were lucky to go through that. What the experience you're talking about would also kind of masks like, Okay, okay, I can do this, I can do this, it was not no
big deal. And when it is a big deal, when there are feelings that you need to digest and you need to understand about yourself, there's going to be a lot of emotion around that that you haven't experienced yet that is necessary to go through otherwise it will tear you apart.
I think you're right, like even crying like this is new for me.
That's good.
Though, it's good that you're crying. It's absolutely wonderful, Like that's what you need to do more of is cry.
It gets it out of your body.
There's a grieving process that comes with transitioning, and if it's not handled properly, this is the kind of thing that can happen. And while it may seem like it's your relationship and maybe it is, there's a lot of stuff that creeps up on us from our younger years when we don't address them. So I would really encourage you to really speak with your therapist in a candid way about all of this.
I would also.
Encourage you to write down as much as you can whenever you can, you know, really start journaling about how you're feeling, and you're going to I feel like you're going to realize that a lot these emotions are very much tied to your emotions from being a younger person and that haven't been fully examined. And while that may not sound like a fun thing to do, it's a necessary thing to do for your future and for moving through this divorce in.
A more amicable way.
And if you can approach your wife in a way that is really loving. Do you think you can or have you about moving forward in a more amicable way in the name of your son.
I've tried, but I think my communication is just like off, yeah, off, exactly.
Okay.
I don't think I'm approaching it at all the right way and I just don't know how.
Okay, Well, can't you have your therapist? Can you have a session with your therapist and your wife and have her address the communication for both of you.
Wow?
Like I keep thinking wow, like this is you know what I mean? Like this is incredible? Like I always keep thinking it has to be like co parenting or these couples like cat like something together. But I never even thought of that. That is an amazing thing. And I think you're right. My third is she's super supportive. And I bet you yes, of one session just to kind of get that communication.
Maybe more than one though, maybe more than one, and also frame it to your wife, like, hey, listen, I'm having I think I have a lot, a lot of work to do on my communication, so I'm seeing a therapist. It would really mean the world to me if you could come in for a session and we can discuss moving forward in the name of our child for the purpose of co parenting in the future. I have accepted that this relationship doesn't work for you.
I we'm not going to fight you.
About that, and then you have to make that promise that you're not going to try and like get her back. And that's not what this is about. This is all for the sanity and safety of your son.
Yeah, completely right. I try to open my home to her, like even Easter Sunday, you know, Like it's like, even if we could just spend an evening together, we could let him see the Easter. It is what two holidays a month that we celebrate Christmas and Easter. A kid, you can't get that together, you know, Like I try and encourage that, but then if we're not communicating right and really being withridiculous, like he feels that. You know, he's nonverbal too, so it's a little bit.
More of you probably know, nonverbal kids know more than verbal kids anyway because their senses are so heightened. Yeah.
Have you listened to that podcast Telepathy Tapes?
Yeah, yeah, absolutely about nonverbal Yeah, it's.
Incredible, And it's like, I just know how many questions and even you are some of your like the questions I add, you know, like imagine what's going through his head. And it's like there are just so many things that we just need to get on board on, like even his therapies and schedules and whatever. It is, like we just gotta gotta be hands on decade.
Yeah, And the way to get there is to get yourself in a healthy place. So you have to double down on your therapy, double down on your journaling, start meditating for about ten minutes a day just to get yourself centered. Just get a download to Deepak Choprah's app, download Headspace, download whatever.
Ten percent happier there's a million.
They'll guide your meditation, they will tell you what to think about, what to focus on, and and just get yourself into It's okay to have these emotions. It's important that you go through this grief. But it's really important that you don't take this out on anyone else.
Like that.
You take your wife to your couple's therapist, and if she wants to go to one of hers, that's fine too.
If she'd rather go to someone she knows, great, whatever.
This is all in the name of better communication, and your communication is going to get better if that's what you choose to focus on in therapy and with your wife. So that's your first step. And then I want you to call us in about six weeks and give us an update.
Oh gosh, all right, Homeorks, Yeah, you got it.
You have homework. This is serious.
Yeah, this is really serious. And it's six weeks definitely. That's that hits us right on the head too. I'm gonna be going back to court and uh trying not to cry.
It's okay, it's okay to right.
And it's and I know she's good in there and so am I. And it just sucks, like, how do you like just separate that emotion, put the proper boundaries up to move for you know, and I think I had never thought of that to that's huge. To even suggest that to my therapist, that's a huge step. Like, hey, just come you know, she knows that I've been with my therapist for a long time now, Like just come on in and just have it communicate and child in the proper way. That's a huge step.
Yeah, that's huge.
I appreciate that advice because you're just looking in and getting me set straight right now. That's what I needed from me. I need you to get me focused.
Maren shares custody with her acts for her child. So Maren, do you have any words of encouragement for him?
I mean, it's so clear that you both care about your son so deeply, and that's like going to be the thing that saves you through all of this grief, and like the car crash that is divorced, it's like the worst thing you can go through, and it's it's
a death. Now that I'm kind of on the other side of it, and we are great co parents and we've sort of let each other go in that romantic sense, even though we still have so much love and history and now a child to like, you know, be there for I think I think I was saying earlier it's like the person you marry is not the person that you divorce on both ends, Like she might be thinking that as well, and it's just that's like the hardest
part is knowing that it's not the same. But for your son, I think the therapy idea, and obviously it's your therapist, so she might come in feeling a little bit like
ganged up on. So I think the suggestion of if it's someone she's more comfortable with, I think just as long as there's a third party who's a professional in the room being like holding you too accountable and giving you tools on how to talk to each other, you just fuel all of that self care and love and like respect for yourself that is going to be so apparent to her and your son this time, Like give yourself the time to like be you know, a little
bit of a mess. It's grief, be sad, cry, journal,
meditate all the things. But I think, yeah, logistically, of course, like get a session on the books where it's the three of you, and I think that's just an amazing way to go forward it, especially like if it's before the court date and the judge, at least in Tennessee ends up like telling you how to split the co parenting schedule, and I will say, like, that's very bizarre, but also gives me comfort to know that, Like, and I think my ex husband as well, Like the state
has given us this split and we have to abide by it. So there's no like, well do you get easter or do I Like it's in writing and that kind of just it takes us and our emotions out of it, which is really helpful for both of us.
Now.
It's like I won't say easy, and we do co parents super well now, but like you just have to allow yourself that time to feel all the feelings and know that this is like a lot of probably residual stuff coming up from like your transition and as time it was so brave to do so, like before we had all the resources and talks about trans people like you were so ahead of that, Like and being a
champion for your community and yourself. I think like rekindling that as well, like go out there with your community again, like go do those talks again.
I think that'll bring you so much like empowerment.
You hit that on the head. So I recently started joining some trans groups again and I was actually just you know, so that starts actually.
Next week and amazing, Yeah, so.
You actually hit you guys are hitting air out of the head. It's like a lot of that did come up, I think because I felt like a lot and maybe even put that pressure on her if she and I can even get to that on her like that. She accepted that and I put a lot of that on her and I put her on a pedestal that way. And now having a child, like like kind of what you said, I realized one conditional love is not just with the child with another person and kind of like
which is almost like a choice, but it is. It is a choice and it isn't at the same time like when you realized I'm conditional love. It's incredible and I know deep Balncey has that for me. It's just like what you guys are saying. You guys hitting it on the head, and I appreciate it, like getting through some of that residual resentment or whatever that we just
never dealt with. We never dealt with it. We just we just I think got together very young and just kind of kept shelling stuff and you know, getting through having fun through it or distractions. It's not dealing with it, you know.
Yeah, Well, Mike, will you check in with us in about six weeks?
I sure will. I appreciate that. Thank you for that accountability.
Yeah, absolutely, take care of Mike.
All right, So fanculady so much. I really appreciate everything it really, I'm really going to take it serious.
Good thanks, Mike, appreciate you. That was a very heavy phone call. Well done everyone, well done.
But amazing too, Like you could just tell he knew a lot of this already and is so self aware. But also sometimes, like we were saying earlier, just someone tell me what to.
Do next, Yes, exactly.
Well.
Our next question comes from Ali.
She is twenty two. Dear Chelsea, my name is Ali. I'm just starting out in music. I have the urge to rush everything. I'm writing music whenever it comes to me, and all I want to do is post it on my Instagram to quote unquote prove something.
I know.
I have nothing to prove. Really, I know I can do it. I'm currently looking to get back into school since I had to take some time off from college for mental health treatment. Music has been so amazing at helping me process things and start to feel like myself again. I wrote a lot of poetry and treatment that I want to set to music, so that's a big motivator. I'm starting piano lessons in June, and I'm studying music theory till then. Any advice, what else should I study
to help better myself. I've flown the rainbow of different self love practices, but how can I practice the art of patients? Sincerely, Ali, Hi, Alio, it's good to see you.
This is Maren Morris, our special guest today. Perfect timing for your question.
Yeah, I mean a great question because I think patience is the hardest thing for me to deal with, because I'm just so type A when it becomes about like my decision making and like how do I get here? Let's bring into action just like the thought of waiting on something is so frustrating. But I think it's amazing that, like at this age, you've discovered these new lanes of
like creativity and therapy. Also, I mean I cannot play the piano, I can barely play the guitar, but like if I didn't have that tool to write songs too. I know there are people that can write songs without playing an instrument, but I just find it so helpful and like really liberating to not have to rely on someone else to play the music for you. So I think it's amazing that you like you have lessons planned. Yeah, and the music theory thing is also like so helpful,
especially if you're getting into piano. Music theory will really help you with that I'm like more ear trained with. But yeah, I mean, I think it's wonderful. But I think when I give advice, like to songwriters, the word patience is always the first thing I say. It is because there's so many people. I don't know if you're wanting to do this like professionally or like just have
it for your own tool of healing. But yeah, I just think like giving yourself the time to experience life and be able to write through it, and also like give yourself those days where like allow yourself to write something terrible like that is so important is to like tell yourself, this is not a reflection of my talent. Some days I will write something that is so unlistenable to anyone but me, and that's okay. Like I got it out of the of the pipe, but like something
greater is behind it, hopefully. So yeah, like dare to suck write a bad song, write like a shit piece of poetry and just be like, Okay, that's off, onto the next one.
I also think on the subject of patients, I have no patience either. I have to work very, very hard at my patients. But I understand that impulse to want to share something that you think is great. But as a twenty two year old artist, you have so much room to grow. And I know that's not what you want to hear because you think you're great now, right,
But you're only going to get greater. You're only going to get better at your craft as you age, and as you experience more and more songwriting and you sing more, and you learn the piano and you learn and you get to know yourself in a better way as an artist. So when you're holding, when you have that impulse to share, I have to put this on social. I have to put this on social. Sometimes you should, and sometimes if you just wait a day, wait like twenty four hours,
like start to train your brain. This is going to be a big favorite to you as you get older as an artist, wait a minute and digest it and then listen to it again then the next day and think, is this really something I want to put out there? Because you're only going to get better at what you do, so why not wait and make sure that it's as good as it can get before you share everything that's happening.
Yeah. I think that's really important because we do live in this culture of like, if I made something, I have to put it out there for everyone to see, and especially as you're this baby artist, like that can be intimidating to say the very least of you know, putting something in front of people. And I think there's power in allowing it to be for yourself for a little while and nurture yourself and let yourself grow.
Yeah.
I love all those sentiments I have with the urges. It's like this urge to like show the process and.
Like how much I've improved, but really, like I like what you were saying about like sitting on it and then also writing the bad music, like it's all like a part of the process.
It is, and you should write that down, just write wait on a nice like index card or piece of paper. I put it on your mirror and then really think it through. Don't do things like listen. I am a very impulsive person, but I've learned over the years, and it took me a long time to learn this.
So you're twenty two.
So if you can take this advice and really stick with it, you're gonna be even more successful than you would have been had you not taken advice.
But wait, whenever you have an.
Impulse, just seriously sleep on it, look at it again in the morning, and if you feel the same way, then sure, put it out. But just don't do things by like the seat of your pants. It's just not as productive as people think it is.
Yeah, and Ali, Ali, Like, I will tell you a quick story about how I have auditioned for every single talent show that's on television. Like when I was a teenager, my mom dragged me to American Idol Star Search, America's Got Talent, The Voice. They all said no, And I moved to Nashville when I was twenty three just to
write songs for other artists. And I didn't get a record deal until I was twenty six, So like, thank god, I didn't make it onto any of those shows because I was so corny and not ready, like not ready to be seen on a public level by any means, and I just wouldn't have handled it well. But by the time I was like twenty five is twenty six, I was like, Okay, I know what my sound is.
And that's after also like fifteen years of touring that I was like, it took me a second to learn from other writers in Nashville, like how to write songs and how to collaborate. So yeah, just like that was my patient's lesson was thank god all these shows said absolutely not to me, because now I think I'd be I'd be cringing and like trying to scrub it from the internet.
So it happens when it happens.
Yeah, yeah, I'm really reallyeved to hear that because like I kind of am sitting on that too, because like I have urages to like sign up for like try you know those shows they were talking about.
It's I just.
Want to wait like till I am like feeling fully confident.
Yes, wait for that. It's coming. It's coming your way, I promise.
And Mary, you bring up a really good point about collaboration too. I would love to see you ali as you're getting started in this, like find yourself a community of musicians, find one or two other people who you can like a jam with, like run things by because it is such a collaborative process.
And as far as.
Posting stuff, like it's not to say you can't be recording, because I think that's a great idea to be recording your progress as you go, but like, don't feel pressure to post right now.
Thank you.
That's really good to hear.
Oh well, good luck with everything. Thanks for calling in.
Thank you for giving all the experience.
Yeah, of course.
We'll check in with you in six months.
Okay, Okay, thank you so much.
Awesome Sally.
You guys, I would review that as an A plus call call and deliver great, great advice from an actual musician, a successful musician, and me. Okay, we're going to take a break. We're going to take a break and come
back and say goodbye to Maren Morris. Please tag me for the special because I get so many tags about my books, but I'm not getting as many about my special, and my Special is the newest thing out, so I want to make sure all my ardent fans are watching it and tagging me, and I'll repost you and yes it's called the Feeling, and we're back with Maren Morris. I want to just read a quote before we say
goodbye to Maren. This is with her new album Dreamsicle Is comes out May ninth on all platforms, and this is an album quote from Maren that I want to read. Dreamsicle takes place in the aftermath of loosening my grip on my personal and professional life, sweeping through the pits of grief but never staying too long, and finding the joy in knowing that at my core, I'm still who
I am and that's pretty fucking great. No monster in the mirror, no shame laid in decade or unraveling what happened, just acceptance, release, and the reclaiming of how strong I've always been, with no need to dim or water down its essence any longer. Dreams the Call became less about the hard lessons and more about enjoying the bumpy ride and finding people who genuinely want to be on.
It with you because they love you.
It's about appreciating and respecting the beauty and nuances of life while it's happening, not after it's too late. That's really beautiful and I wanted to share that with all of our listeners.
Oh, thank you the spirit the spirit of your album.
Yeah, I would say so.
And I wrote that like three months ago, so I'm like, I'm glad I still feel this way.
Yeah.
I think it's just it's so tough to like put work out and be like, is this like your magnum opus, Like you just can't think about that. You just have to write what you're going through and have the stones to put it out and be received and loved and
critiqued and hated and all the shit. But it's like you have to get it out of your body and your mind, and I think, yeah, there is such a release in that and not feeling like tethered to the past or the like practice of nostalgia and just truly being able to enjoy something while you're still in it.
Yeah.
I mean, let's circle back when I'm forty and I'll revisit that quote. But I feel proud of it.
You should feel proud of it. I'm proud of you.
And I don't even I don't say that in a patronizing mother maternal way.
I just mean, from woman to woman, I'm proud.
Well, same.
I'm going to try and catch you on tour.
The tour starts July twelfth and shows she's doing US, Europe and UK. So get your tickets at Marenmarris dot com. And I'm going to come find you, Maren and come to one of your shows.
Yes, yes, I know you saw me at the Pink Show, but yes, this will be our stage.
Yeah for sure. Yeah, we'll be back. So nice speaking with you today.
Thank you, yeah, thank you for having me.
Have a great day y'all too. Bye, every buy.
Okay, my remaining dates for Vegas. There are remaining dates for this year. Summertime is coming and I will be in Vegas at the Cosmo doing my residency on July fifth. We will be the next date that I'm there July fifth, August thirtieth.
And then November one and twenty ninth.
November one and November twenty ninth, I will be in Las Vegas at the Cosmo performing Inside Myself at the Chelsea.
It's called Chelsea at the Chelsea for a reason. Okay, thank you.
Do you want advice from Chelsea? Right into Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com. Find full video episodes of Dear Chelsea on YouTube by searching at Dear Chelsea pod.
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