Brutality of Behaviour (with Carson Gross)
Summary
Jared interviews Carson Gross, creator of HTMX, discussing Locality of Behavior (LoB) as an alternative principle to Separation of Concerns (SoC) in web development. Carson explains how HTMX leverages hypermedia for simpler, more maintainable front-ends, critiquing traditional approaches that lead to "spooky action at a distance." They explore trade-offs with principles like DRY and the importance of pragmatic software design, advocating for deeper modules and simpler APIs.Episode description
In this episode of Dead Code, Jared interviews Carson Gross, creator of HTMX, about the principle of Locality of Behavior (LoB) and its role in web development. Carson explains that HTMX enhances HTML rather than replacing it like modern JavaScript frameworks, offering a simpler, hypermedia-driven approach ideal for use cases like e-commerce. He critiques the traditional emphasis on Separation of Concerns, arguing that keeping behavior close to markup improves maintainability and avoids “spooky action at a distance.” Carson acknowledges trade-offs between LoB, DRY, and SoC, emphasizing the importance of context-based decision-making. He and Jared also discuss broader software trends, advocating for deeper modules, simpler APIs, and a pragmatic, less ideological approach to coding as the industry evolves.
Links:
HTMX Essays (especially Locality of Behavior and When to Use Hypermedia)
Richard Gabriel’s “Worse Is Better” Essay
Mozilla Developer Network (MDN)
John Ousterhout’s A Philosophy of Software Design
The Uncle Bob vs. John Ousterhout Argument
Big Sky Software (Carson’s Company)
Dead Code Podcast Links:
Jared’s Links:
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