82. Parenting the Hard Stuff: Technology

And I do feel like in the school year , where kids are back in sports and activities and they're with their classmates , some of these topics come up and you're like , oh my gosh , I forgot . Like we're back to real life .

So we invited some of our best friends , cole and Caitlin Zick , to be with us today because , honestly , they do an incredible job in this arena . And , um , today we're talking specifically about technology . So parenting the hard stuff , technology with cole and caitlin jury's still out if we do a good job .

This is about to be a funny it's gonna be a good time , fun conversation .

So the Zicks , let me just say really fast they are pastors of Risen King Church here in Redding California senior pastors , um , just down the road from us , and but they spent about six or seven years directing a nonprofit called Moral Revolution and so they actually have a lot of exposure to the arena of like moral ethics in general from a Christian perspective

and a lot of how they raise their kids , a lot of how they've helped other people learn how to raise their kids . It's with a lot of wisdom and a lot of research in their background , and this topic specifically .

I love talking about this with the Zicks because I do feel like they're doing an incredible job and , even though we will see future results later as their kids age , I'm like how they handle it now and how their kids are handling it with them . I'm always really impressed . So thanks for coming on and chatting , guys .

People do feel overwhelmed very easily by the topic , so I'm glad you guys are diving into it this is one of those topics that it's a .

You know that you can access the internet . Kids who are young . If you don't let your kids watch a lot of screen time , you know you're an outlier . And I think the big wrestle that parents have , which is why we're doing this , is one how , how , how bad is it ? How do we get away from going to that ? How do we parent this in a way that brings health ?

With technology today , you almost can't like . When we were kids , it was so common to just show up for me , just show up at my friend's house . I mean , that's what we did . We rode our scooters to our friend's house . Or if you didn't meet up in the morning , you had to find your friends .

You need a nap . Everyone needs a nap . Give them an iPad .

So I think number one is remembering we have a godly mandate to train , and , and that alone creates a perspective through which we have to view this .

And so I think , understanding that number one , that that is our job and our calling , yeah , and then I think , really understanding and teaching ourselves and diving into some of the data out there on what the impact is Right .

So , to give you a little bit of , from our perspective , we're not no screen family and diving into some of the data out there on what the impact is right . So , to give you a little bit from our perspective , we're not no-screen family , but we are very and I wouldn't even say that we're controlled .

The language we use with our kids is we trust you . Here's how you build trust Make good choices , or , when you make poor choices , let us hear it from you .

Because if you have trust with me , I'm going to let you in a lot of settings and situations that I maybe wouldn't have let you in if I didn't trust you . I'll let you be around friends that I may be .

Maybe I don't trust the friend , but I trust you , so I'm willing to let you hang out with that person at the football game or whatever it is , whatever the situation is .

But I think the big thing to me is reminding parents that we're , that it's our job to train , not necessarily be friends right now , and we have to do a good job training , because if we don't , they're going to be trained by the internet if we don't train them on purpose yeah and and so you don't get .

We don't really get the luxury of you buddy-buddy and giving them what they want . It's right to create restrictions . It's right to create . I was like Caleb . Our 14-year-old just got an Xbox for the first time two weeks ago and he has begged us for years .

And he had to buy it with his own money and the TV that he was going to use broke and so now he has to go find a way to buy a TV because we're not letting him , we're not supplying , we're not supplying this stuff . And I told him I go the moment . I say get off of it , and you don't , it goes in my closet .

I'm not saying in a minute , I'm not saying I got to finish the game . I'm not saying I'm saying Caleb , come do this and he's done a really good job . I mean he's , you know , he's kind of fallen in line because we've set the standard and we're really open with him Like kiddo . We trust you , we don't trust them . Here's what addiction does .

Here's where your mind is at . Your mind's not going to be fully developed till your mid twenties . Like we unpack all of that stuff with our kids .

It doesn't mean look at the parents around you and think this is what's acceptable and normal , like make your own standards , yeah . Like for us , it actually was looking at them to realize I never want to do that because , it from a young age . Some of our friends kids had their own personal ipads with their colorful cases , so you think it's like kiddish .

But they would wake up and get on them just like it's their own phone , like it was like , wake up , go straight to it facetime , play games , go on youtube . You're like it's starting the addiction at such a young age .

And I think our kids have even seen that to where he's seen friends get addicted to Xbox or want to do screens instead of come hang out and he's like that's lame . So they've gotten the front row seat to saying like I don't want to live addicted to a screen .

Now they are Like that's not going to go away , they're going to get into , they're going to get later in high school , they're going to get into college , and so it is definitely that balance of , hey , we need to teach him to manage it . That's also why , okay , he's 14 . He really wants to get an Xbox .

Okay , we're going to let you you've got the money to do it , buddy , go for it . But we're still going to help create the parameters and , and , honestly , we give him quite a bit of freedom because he's managed himself well . One of the things we were talking about last week is he was talking about how much time he spends .

I go , I'm not actually as concerned about the amount of time you're playing it as I am . Are you still responsible in the areas that matter ? Are you still doing the right things ? Are you still focused on the right stuff ? Are you still prioritizing your relationship with the Lord , going to youth group , wanting to be a part of that ?

Are you still doing well in school ? Are you like Caleb ? All of my kids are into sports . Are you still prioritizing your teams as long as the things that matter are happening I'm not micromanaging , we're not sitting there with a clock . Is our approach with it right Like we're teaching you to manage your life well ?

And if that's your decompressing moment , that's totally good , as long as decompression doesn't become addiction . Yeah yeah .

Um , are you throwing away things that you previously prioritize that are healthy , because you want to be doing that ? Right , like , are you choosing to not go hang out with friends when before you would have ? Are you not doing your chores because you're you won't leave the the screen ? Are you right ? Like , those are the things I'm looking for ?

And I've actually watched him not change much . Yeah , like , he's been playing pickleball , literally been playing pickleball like two hours , three hours , every morning . He he sets his alarm for like 6am , rides his bike to the pickleball courts , and it's not like I care if he plays pickleball , other than I think it's a much better activity than video gaming .

Right , absolutely , that hasn't changed .

Or we had a call with this trainer for baseball because he likes to play baseball and the call came while he was in the middle of a game . So I went in and put it on speakerphone . He , in the middle of the game , dropped his controller .

He was playing live online and by leaving he actually gets banned for like two hours from this particular game and he chose to do it to be in the call . Yeah .

Yeah , um , we're faced with the reality of what screens and technology do to our kids brains . So , with regards to addiction and also you mentioned attention span earlier , um so , so we really are faced with . We , as parents , have to learn something about this thing that we didn't actually ourselves have to navigate as kids .

So that is hard , and we're having to raise our kids to do something potentially different than how we even manage our own lives , because I would be willing to say that a lot of adults are addicted to screens in some capacity . So you're having to go oh gosh , do I need to adjust how I'm behaving in order to align ?

with how I want to raise my kids , and those are . Those are hard things to to come to grips with or to make a plan for . Come to grips with or to make a plan for . But I wonder if we could talk for a second on um . Actually , what are some of the like ?

Maybe we can even dive into a little bit of statistics just to kind of help educate , like with regards to addiction and then attention span and some of the like real practical things , like , hey , parents , let's wake up , this is really happening . Let's talk about those things for a minute , yeah .

It's like so massively rewarding .

And , cole , you've talked a lot about addiction before and you can kind of go through this a little bit more , but they're getting such a dopamine , such a hit of reward , saying like , like you're doing something that's valuable , you're doing something that's important , you're doing something for your body that your brain goes I like that . Keep giving me more .

Well , what ultimately happens , just to make it really simple , is a couple things one that feels like the only thing that really matters , that feels like the only thing that really matters , it feels like the only thing that's really important . And so you quit real life . Normal life , normal relationships no longer feel exciting .

They're not fast enough , they're not quick enough , they're not exciting enough . Certain shows that little kids are watching right Like we've went back with Edie and started to only allow her to watch older shows that we had like in the 1990s . And because they don't have the big bright colors , they don't have the quick changing scenes , all the time .

That's designed , they literally designed it to keep hold of her attention and for her to crave that , and so the big scary thing for me is when kids start craving um social media or video games or um even shows .

Yeah , scrolling is no regular life no longer feels exciting , it's true , and so they don't really want , they don't develop the skill sets that real life , uh , demands that you develop .

He has two months of three days a week where he has to practice before he'll ever get the reward of maybe getting a hit in a game , or playing a game , or playing a game right . So so you have . You have this two-month journey of discipline , of hard work , of showing up , of following through of being a good teammate submitting to authority xyz .

Whether that kid ever plays a single inning in high school or not . The last five years have been worth it because it's taught him hard work creates delayed gratification way down the road .

I mean I was to make an actual phone call , make an actual phone call right to make actual phone call . I mean , that's how I talked hello , missus .

My sister had bought it for the kids , and while I was sick I thought I'm going to try this Fortnite game and I get on there .

This is built to hook you so that you would give up the two months of practice for the game that's two months later , because it wants you to win now . That , to me , is probably the thing that matters most in this conversation . Now we can layer this with pornography and sexuality .

There's layer on layer on layer to this , but the root is if my job is to train my kids in the way they should go , I want to prepare them to be great husbands . My daughter a great wife , great parents . I want them to prepare them to be great business owners or CEOs or employees , whatever they end up doing .

And the thing I always tell my boys the greatest rewards are on the other side of hard work . It may not feel like that at 12 . When you're 25 and you're able to build something successful and no one else , your age is because their attention span is half of what yours is successful and no one else .

Your age is because their attention span is half of what yours is . You're going to thank me that you can now build a life that has great reward on the other side of it , and helping them understand those differences .

It's because a goldfish's attention span is 10 seconds , two seconds more than the current human adult .

All I'm looking at is Jay's bald head for 15 minutes . And his knife and his knife On a screen . You're getting something new . Yeah . As often as you want . Yeah , you actually have total control over how often you get a new dopamine hit , and so it's actually

now . I want to preface I do believe ADHD is a real thing , but I also think we're conditioning an entire culture to have an attention deficit issue .

Let's talk a little bit about what to do and how to do it .

In fact , edie is four years old and we just she and I , just had a conversation about this the other day , and it's not too early ?

And so of course I like creep back in there and oh no , they're not in the playroom , they're in the room across from the playroom , which happens to be the tv room , and they have , you know , of course , ed blames liam . I'm like he's two , he definitely did not figure this out . So they had some consequence , I will tell you , you know .

Side note related is that I decided that day that I thought ed actually needed a screen detox and she's only four and we actually don't do a lot of screen time .

She's prone to real emotional dysregulation anyways and I just went whoa , whoa , whoa , this is not , we're done . So we did a whole week of like zero TV at all , no screens , and we had the best days we had the best days and she got more creative , she was more regulated .

And then just yesterday I was like , you know , maybe on Sundays during Liam's nap , maybe there's one day a week that I could have a nap , you know . So I was like , let's just try like a little bit on Sunday . So we're just kind of experimenting with like a good balance or whatever .

But anyways , all this to say , we can start really young with a conversation about trust , cause that's a culture , that's a culture conversation .

It's true , cause I loved high school , my parents trusted me , though , I made great choices , and I didn't even have a curfew because my parents trusted me .

I'm like you're going to love it , you're going to make friends , you're going to start to drive , you're going to get to hang out on Friday nights and , da-da-da-da-da , you want me to trust you , like as early as you can , and even giving them the long to why they want that , yes .

totally it's not your fault , because if they know that they're empowered and ready to recognize what that was , say no , turn it off , walk away . Then they feel powerful to reject it , so teaching them to set their own boundaries age ?

You know , so I , I don't know that there's an age . You want to make sure that you win the power of first mention for sure . So , like with Caleb and Connor , we were at a public school we started having the dialogue when they were eight and 10 , where .

I said hey , there's videos and images of naked people out there having sex and I know you don't know what sex is yet , but I want you to know . You're probably going to have someone try to show this to you at some point . If that happens , I you will not be in trouble .

Just walk away , tell them you don't want to see it and just come and tell me about it , and then we'll talk about how it made you feel . And kiddo was like oh , it'll make me feel horrible and I go . I think that's true . At first I go .

But honestly , kiddo , like , as you get older , you'll be interested , you'll be curious and you'll even maybe want it or like it , and those feelings might change .

So I think parents , we can't stay naive to realize , oh , it's just YouTube kids , so it's safer . It has this blocker . Like we have to be really intentional , know it blocker . So it's not even just nudity or pornography or those types of images , it's just messaging of like , oh , wow , like I remember our kids saw something .

It was oh , we were at an airbnb and it was a tv commercial and I mean it had barely showed anything yet and it was very much in like the pride , genre and stuff and they're like , oh , turn it off , turn it off . Like .

So it's like they have learned now from such a young age and they can almost feel it and sense when it's going to go a certain way and and so they will even like , tell their little yeah . And they'll tell their little siblings like close your eyes , cover your eyes .

So just from a very young age , I just think they have to know there's bad messages or bad images that we can choose to say no to , and you can come tell mom and dad anything .

You got to know your kid , you got to know what they're around and you want to make sure to be the first one to start the conversation , so they believe that you're the source .

What we have done is paid close attention to what shows are okay and what shows aren't okay , right in moderation . And so we've realized that there's a show called spirit and , honestly , like spirits is cool horse show , but when edie was watching it , her attitude would change because of how the kids talk to one another . Yeah , so we went .

I mean the songs in Coco Melon are geared towards really little kids toddlers . I feel like that was after our time and so anyways , even the things that seem quote age appropriate , I just think we have to know what the actual technology is doing to the . Yeah , so we've .

We've gone much more towards like old school Disney and you know if we're going to watch a movie . It's going to be . You know , gosh , what was that ? Milo and Otis ? You know , if we're gonna watch a movie , it's gonna be . You know , gosh , what was that ? Milo and Otis ? You know , just like good , wholesome , kind of like family the other thing that .

But if you I've just been thinking about this a lot Like if you don't pay now , you're going to pay later , and paying later sucks , it's true . It's like in the moment you're so tired In the moment you're so tired in the moment . It's true , jay , so much help .

But it's true , if you don't pay now , you're going to pay later , and so for us that that's kind of the deal . Guys , let's skip ahead a little bit and talk about when do you think that you should introduce , like a phone to your kids and how did you talk through that ? Because a lot of kids are going to school and seeing their friends with phones .

Yeah . And that's a tough thing for a parent . What was your conversation with your kids as they're starting to get older you know we're not having that with Edie , but as they're starting to get older , when did that conversation happen and how did how did your kids work through it ?

It was hard because , yeah , his friends were getting phones in sixth grade or watches or some type of communication tool but , really it wasn't until we realized , oh , we kind of need some of that access to him to give him the freedom and trust he has . We need to be able to call him . It's nice to have that extra phone .

The challenge with these parameters is I trust Caleb , so we try to use the language of kiddo . The reason you have a Gab phone isn't because we don't trust you , because I do Like I think you'd make the right choices . I do believe you would avoid the wrong sites and stuff like that . I just don't .

I want to protect your undeveloped mind from the intentional advertising that's going to come your way . So we're going to do the gab phone for that reason . Yeah , he still doesn't like it . Like he still tells us all the time and then he's excited when he gets a new gab phone .

So he's almost like conflicted , where he actually is excited and at the same time , only the comparison factor . If it wasn't for comparison , he wouldn't ever care .

I leave it over here . I'm going to do that . He's like I'm not on it . It's not right next to me all day . I'm like that's the goal .

Stuff doesn't die .

Of kids have iPhones , you know , and so we were in this like we don't know , it was so new , we were just like not really sure , but we always said like your phone is our phone so we can look at it whenever we want , to all of that , but I will never forget just the , the kids feeling violated by us wanting to even look at their phones , and so I

think preemptive conversations with kids about like oh no , no , like there's no , like your phone is not a world that you get to go and live in by yourself . Yep , because that's how kids treat it is they .

They have a family life and then they have a social life , and their social life happens at school , on their phone , on this , you know , sports fields , whatever , and I want to raise our little kids , absolutely to know that , like no , no , your phone is not your world yeah , privacy isn't something . Privacy is not something that you know , enjoy as a like .

No , this is not a place where you get to something that you know enjoy as a like .

I remember having this conversation with Riley and part of it was I would never give you a at 13 years old . I would never give you a sports car . Your first car is not going to be a sports car . Your first car isn't going to be a Ferrari . It's not going to be something you could drive 150 miles an hour .

It's too much power to even have to manage , and so I do think that part of it is I do trust you , but I don't trust you to manage this level of it's more than what you should have to do , in the same sense that my son's first job isn't going to be CEO . His first job is going to be you know something that pays him minimum wage , where ?

he learns to control and manage that much authority and freedom .

Like Kate , will just grab my phone and look through texts and emails and she'll you know . It's super common , it's like normal practice in our house . Right Like there is . It's super common , it's like normal practice in our house . There is no privacy from each other in that sense .

That's something I think that you establish early Our kids are going to ultimately . I've started to find with my kids the norms that we've set . Even if they fight it at first , they do accept it .

I've actually begun to watch them get a little bit of identity and pride in the difference , the differences in our family from other families right like connor , our second son , will come home from a friend's house and I'm like how was it ? uh , it wasn't fun . Man , they're addicted to the video , to video games .

I'm glad I'm not like I don't want to play that much . Yeah , like he'll . Actually , they actually start to get some identity of oh , we're different and that difference , a good different . It's not right away . It takes some time for them to develop that , but I've seen that start to manifest in our kids .

Right , like I'm going to trust you around people I don't trust . If I trust you , like if I trust you , I'll let you be around people I don't trust yeah and then I've also been really clear with some , with the boys of hey , I just want you to know I don't trust this friend of yours . Here's why I don't trust them .

But because I trust you , I'm willing to let you go to their house . Got it yeah . So if you keep making good choices and you are open with me and you keep in conversation with me , I'm good with you going over there . And then there's been times , there's been seasons , where I'm like I don't trust that family so much .

Even if I trust you , I can't have you go over there right now . You can hang out during the day , but you're not going to spend the night Right . And I got one of my good friends from high school . His name's Jason . He's always like man . You treat your kids like they're adults . You tell them almost everything , because I do give them our thinking a ton .

Here's what I think . Here's why I think it . Here's why I'm okay with this situation . Here's why I'm not okay with that situation . I'll never forget this time Caleb wanted to spend the night at a friend's house on the baseball team that I did not trust this family environment at all . Yeah . And I go do you really want to go ?

And he goes , yeah , I really do . And I go . Okay , tell me why . Help me understand what your thinking is . He shared it with me . I don't even remember what it was . I go , all right , I go . I'm willing to let you go because I trust you , and so I'm going to let you go over to the house tonight because I'm trusting you .

And I mean , the next morning by nine o'clock he was ready to come home , which he's almost net . He always wants to stay for the day , right , and it so for us , and I'm not necessarily recommending this for every family right . Like I think each parent has to know your kid . You got to do they do . They know who they are .

What language and environment are you setting ? Like , my kids all have a pretty strong self-identity and therefore they have . They do draw lines and remove themselves from things and I've watched them . Like caleb we , in checking his phone we realized hey , you're not in your team's chat anymore .

Yeah , that's great I remember it's because I came home with a bad attitude and he was like listen , this will be the last time you go over there because you have his attitude . So if you're going to come home with your attitude great , but this will be the last time with you coming home with his attitude .

That starts a conversation of giving them the power to say , oh , I could recognize that there could be something bad and reject it . Then they have a Good Pictures , bad Pictures for once . They get older and that really kind of teaches them more to be more aware of pornography and digital dangers .

But what that same organization did was created a resource called Brain Defense . This one I am so passionate about because I'm like we could change the world if we could just get this in every home and every school . So Brain Defense is basically their whole motto is every kid deserves digital safety training .

So one they get self-discipline with screen time to help kids control time , choose content and create balance . Number two safe habits to avoid digital dangers from porn predators and bullies . So it screen time to help kids control time , choose content and create balance . Number two safe habits to avoid digital dangers from porn , predators and bullies .

So it even teaches them and equips them for when their friends being bullying we've caught our kids in group chats that are school group chats . Which parents , if you ? don't know those exist because it's in their google world , that's their school world . Then they'll be in this whole google chat with people .

So you're like , okay , teach them how to behave well in there and then good , digital citizen practicing to how to teach kindness , integrity and respect . So brain defense is a program . You can buy it and just do it at home with your kids , your family . The target age range for that is third grade to sixth graders .

But what I'm a huge advocate for is go to your local school that your kids go to meet with the principal , show them the program and say , could we get this in our school ? I was able to do that , sat down with our principal . It doesn't have to be a private school . They have it open . It's made for a public school setting .

But then they they did make additions like add-ons for a Christian , I think Christian , mormon , jewish , catholic , like they made add-ons . So if a faith-based school wants to add their faith to it , they can .

But what's amazing is I would see these worksheets come home after our kids were doing it in third to sixth grade and there'd be a picture of a brain and it says , hey , draw a line from here to here . And it's showing the kid like you're building mental pathways .

It has a picture of a bedroom and it's like what in here doesn't belong and it's , you know , like it's so good in their little language . And my favorite part is it's not only giving of . That's so cool , yeah , but it's this . It's this core understanding among classmates of we know what to do with that that's not cool .

It's really great so that's one I'll go pretty quick through . The other ones is protect young eyes . That's an organization that's going to just keep you up in the know . If you're like , oh wow , snapchat , did you know 59% of students have seen nudity on there that didn't try to Like unsolicited nude pictures , come on Snapchat . I didn't know it was that bad .

My kid told me Snapchat's good . You know , they're just keeping you up on the know , that's good . And he gives you lots of like steps , of conversations to have with your kid on Protect Young Eyes protect young eyes . And then the third one that we've already mentioned is Gab Wireless . So if you follow them , go to their website .

see that . But what has been a win , too , is seeing our kids use resources like that , too , before they watch a show .

I use it before we watch a movie because I'm like I want to know what exactly is in here , and when they spell out like every cuss word or every scene of you know , they even break down like there's cleavage or there's kissing or there's making it like they tell you everything that your kid's going to filter out some of the other agenda stuff .

Yes , no , it's not , it'll actually show you it so that you can see it , because they're celebrating it .

It's true , right , they still require us to engage , yeah , and be connected . Yeah , I just thought of one more really great one bark phone .

It could be the same phone when they're 18 , basically , um , but what they also have is they have that router where any device that comes into your house it barks on . So bark is like barking like a dog , like a warning and it's anything .

It could be rude language , bullying , um , bad words and obviously nudity , anything like that , but it alerts you to to devices coming into your home . So if you're in the teenage scene and you just want to know , oh , they're in their room , I didn't take everybody's phones from them you get an alert of what happens in your home on whoever's device enters it .

She really truly felt like she didn't have a choice as a parent , and I think there's a lot of parents out there right now that feels like the world of technology and what's coming at them is so big and so powerful that they don't really have a choice .

They just have to help their kids in the middle of the mess yeah , which I mean that's like commendable , right . We want to be there for our kids in the middle of their messes . I think what we want to say to parents today is like no , no , no , we are not at the whim of technology in 2024 .

We are not at the whim of the way that globalization has happened in our generation . We're not at the whim of whatever's introduced to our kids . Like we are actually in charge and started with this , like our job is to train them in the way they should go .

And so I think my prayer would be that parents would actually find a position of feeling powerful in this . And that , like as we're raising our kids , we are the ones that get to decide what comes in and out of our houses , what cultures are acceptable and what cultures we will not tolerate in our homes .

And it would be a lie , an agenda driven lie , to say that we are not powerful over this area of our kids lives .

So all of these things that we've set up are all built on the foundation of the fact we will do a family movie night and we sit and cuddle together and we're supporting their interests and we're learning about the things that matter to them and we're having intentional conversations on a regular basis and , like we have a pretty connected family , even in super busy

times we still have a pretty connected family . That relational connection creates the foundation for the parameters that we get to build .

So parenting our kids in dating and parenting our kids in the whole arena of sex , and so , um , hopefully , this , this series , is helpful for you . We're glad that you joined us today and we are looking forward to next week . All right , y'all , bye you .