Aviad Harell's Insights on Tech, AI, and Venture Capital

Hello and welcome back to Data Driven. In this episode, Frank and Andy interview Aviad Harrell, managing partner at Team 8. Aviad sheds light on team 8's unique model of partnering with founders even before they have fully formed ideas, emphasizing the importance of critical thinking, understanding problems intimately, and having a systematic process for success. Aviad's insights into the evolution of venture capital capital and the AI revolution are sure to intrigue and

inspire. Now on to the show. Alright. Hello, and welcome back to Data Driven, the podcast where we explore the emergent fields of AI, data science, and, of course, data engineering. With me on this epic road trip down the information superhighway of data. Andy Leonard. How's it going, Andy? It's going pretty good, Frank. How are you, sir? I'm doing alright. You and I are both suffering from the pollen wave that has hit, Virginia, Maryland.

We're at least half of Maryland. The southern the the kind of coastal half. I was in Pittsburgh. Out of town, and I was up in you were north. I was in Pittsburgh, and Yeah. Everyone up there is complaining about allergies, but, yeah, it wasn't at the degree. It didn't bother me. And then it's literally as soon as I crossed interstate 81, in Hagerstown, boom. Like, it just hit like a wave. But with me, with us today is

Aviad Harel. He is a, management partner at team 8, and, he's gonna tell us all about what team 8 is because I've heard it used, I've heard it referenced, but I'd like to know more. Welcome to the show, Aviad. Hi, Frank. Hi, Andy. Happy to be on your show today. Cool. Good to have you. So It was my pleasure. You are, you're an investor. You're, an adviser, and you have a history of of being a founder, actually. You you were a founder and COO of

Sisense. So tell us about what is team 8? Let's start there. Yep. So team 8 is, is a VC to begin with. It's an Israeli based VC, quite large one, but, it has, a spill. It's a VC with a spill, and I'll try to explain what, makes it, unique. We at Teammate, we really like to partner with founders very early in their journey.

Sometimes before they have a very established idea of what they're going to build, we usually look for founders that, we we become big believers in in their capabilities, and we are also interested in founders that are interested in the same verticals that we are interested. Part of our day to day is to build thesis for ideas. What does it mean? We don't like to be passive. We don't like to sit on our on our chairs and waiting for,

founding, teams to come to us and pitch us ideas. We do that, and we like that, but we also really, really like to be very active on the ideation part. So even before we find founders, we work very hard to build our own thesis in our, in our specific verticals that we're interested in. But we're building the thesis in a way that is like we are going to start that company.

So we come up with an idea. We connect to the market, to specific companies that potentially can become design partners or even customers, of that idea, and we try to validate that idea together with them. If we were able to validate the idea in in in a very systematic way, and we have a very elaborated, book of processes, how we, validate our teasers. And then we also found the right founders that, we feed them, they feed us, and they feed the teasers. Then we usually don't just bet

on them, we triple bet on them. It starts with the size of the check. Usually, we invest in precede, rounds. We invest 2 x to 5 x of the average check size in these founders and ideas. We do not invest in many companies every year. We invest in only very few because we want to give them our full attention. And lastly, at team 8, we have, an establishment we call

the, the platform. It's actually a group of 85 professionals on the payroll of teammate that includes, developers and product people and sales people and business people, that they have two purposes in, teammate. 1, help us in, validating

thesis, and secondly started it. So from the perspective of the founders, if we decided, to partner with them, we give them large checks very early on in the process. They give they get the bandwidth of, the managing partner such as myself and my, partner, and they're augmented, at day 0 with the platform, the 85, professional, part of, teammate. This is a very expensive motion. We were able to execute on that motion if and only if we're able to build a very strong conviction

on the problem, the solution, and the founders. So we do very little, but the little we do, we triple bet on that. So this is this is my way to explain the difference, or the different motion of teammate versus a more typical VCs. Right. And, you know, VCs, at least in America at least in the Valley, the Valley model, it sounds like you're very different than the Valley model. It seems like you're you're kind of, like, a step or

2 ahead of you you bet. And that's not fair to the valley based ones. Right? Like, because there there's a stereotype. Right? Like, and and I'm sure they're they're painfully aware of the survey. But it sounds like you don't just invest in the idea, but you also invest in the people. Right? Correct. Correct. I I I would not be, very quick to say that, the Silicon Valley VCs do not invest in people. They do invest in people, But, we invest

in people very early. Right. And, we take bigger chances because we build bigger conviction more than average at least on the problem statement and the solution for that. Mhmm. Nice. That makes a lot of sense. No. And I don't mean to track the value of these. It's just it's a different what you're doing is is I think being people first, if that's if that's a a a good way to think of it. How did you come to that I'm sorry. Go ahead. Yeah. We're big believers in, people. You know?

I think the number one, attribute to success of a venture is the people we partner with and the market. Right? These are the 2 most important, attributes, to that. So we try to partner with the best founders we can. Now best founders we can partner with is a combination of few qualities. 1st, the the people, and secondly, they're matched to the teases, to the idea that they are after.

Interesting. Interesting. How did you come to that model of being kind of a people first approach as opposed to what I've seen as more of a product based approach or an offering based approach?

Yeah. So first, teammate, was founded way before I joined. I joined a little bit over a year ago, so it's not a a model I invented. But I think, this model, was created based on few things. 1st, I think the people that founded team 8 basically, had a very good understanding of a specific vertical they started with and cybersecurity. Teammate was found by the x 8200, commander. It was the the intelligence, technical intelligence unit out of IDF.

And, he and his team came with, a set of understanding deep understanding of, the vertical, and, they wanted to be very active in regards to what they're going to build and not just wait for, ideas to come to them. So they started to build few teasers, and they part of the process of building or or building a factory to build, startups, they also started to, meet or date potential, founders.

And, they had a very good initial success, And I think this is what, set, set the structure going on forward of, how, things are, taking place at Team 8. Well, that whole that whole seeking out people, I know I know that's what other, VCs do. But most of the time, you know, those of us on the outside of the market, hear of people going to pitch their ideas in a shark tank kind of way. Is that on my side or your side? So that on my side, that's what

I hear. You know, my understanding is Got a little bit dumb. Invested. So you got a little bit disconnected. Technical glitches. Yeah. So from my side, what I see as a person on the outside is that usually engagement with venture capitalists involves someone like me going to someone like you and sharing an idea and creating a pension oh, I'm sorry. I still see him. Oh, no. I still see you. Can you still hear me, Andy? I hear both of you. Yeah. And I've had a couple

of glitches over here, but that's kinda normal. Am I back in sync? You look like you are. Okay. Can you hear me? Typing. I can hear you. Can you hear me talking when and see my mouse moving into the system? You for, few to, 10 of seconds. Okay. Can you hear me now? Daphne says she can hear me. Okay. Weird. Oh, well. Sorry about He's moving. Yeah. I can see I think the video is good. You come in and go. I'm trying to check my network. It seems okay. Yeah. It's probably me.

I'll let my team Teams. I like blaming Teams. Hold on. Frank, you know what I you got the gist of what I'm about to do. Yeah.

So I will I will ask in behalf of Andy because it's okay. So from the outside, right, and and to be clear, last time I had any kind of interactions with, venture capitalists would have been the dotcom boom. Right? So this is, like, a lifetime ago. And, one of the things is, like, when when we when people tend to when people on the outside of the industry, they tend to think of something like Shark

Tank. Right? Where a a a, entrepreneur goes to a bunch of venture capitalists, and they do a pitch deck or a pitch. Has that changed? Like, what is what is what is kinda normal for the industry now? Can you still hear me? Oh, wow. Okay. He's not moving, so you come and go. Okay. Yeah. Let me prep a Google Meet just in case. I think now it's a little bit better. Now it's better. Yeah. Maybe we should turn off cameras just to be We can. Yeah. Sorry about that, guys. No worries.

Alright. How's that? Can you I can hear you perfectly. Yeah. Excellent. Alright. This is gonna happen over the course of 8 years of podcasting. Alright. 1st time. Go ahead, Andy. We'll we'll take it from the top. Okay. So my question was, you know, I'm I'm a person outside of, venture capital. I've not interacted with, with with venture capitalists at all. And my understanding has been that the way you engage with a venture capitalist

is you do a pitch deck. You go to a meeting that's a lot like the TV show Shark Tank, and they ask questions and you give answers. And, you know, at the end of that, they you know, the venture capitalists go thumbs up, thumbs down. And what I hear you saying, it sounds like that, yes, you're doing that, but you're also actively seeking out founders and that that's a bit different from what we've what we've expected. Okay. I think Cool. I think I think you

described it, well. We seek out founders sometimes even before they have ideas. And in parallel, we also seek ideas regardless of founders. Now that's an interesting approach going after the that you know, I've never heard anybody say that before, that you're looking for, I guess, you're looking for leadership or, enthusiasm or

intelligence or some combination of all of the above. You're you're looking for a person, and then y'all are all gonna get together, you and that person and your team, and you're gonna come up with an idea for that person to lead. Is that accurate? It is. It is. I just, even make it more, more, concrete. We look for entrepreneurs. Right? Entrepreneur is a little bit, of mixture of of, everything you listed, earlier. Uh-huh. But it also has the x factor.

You know, someone that, will be able to get, in the room from the cracks in the floor. Right? So that x factor is a must, a must be, fairy dust on the qualities you described earlier. But, yeah, we're focused on that. Interesting. Interesting. What is what is kind of like because last time I interacted with any kind of venture capital would have been during the dotcom boom in the late nineties. Yep. How how has the industry changed since then? Well, this is this is a a a great, question. So,

I'll try to answer it from, my own experience. So, before I joined team 8, I was a founder of, business intelligence and analytics company called Sisense. I started it 18 years ago. It's a long period of time when I say it, like that, and I spend there 15 years, holding, all the various position, you can, think of. I remember few things from the early days of, Sisense. 1st, it feels like it was way

less professional than it is today. In the sense that when me and my cofounders wanted to start a Sisense, we were completely clueless.

Right? We were completely clueless of what it means to start a company. We were completely clueless what it means to build a product. We were completely clueless of what it means to define a product or to build a team or to raise money. Today, many years after, I meet many teams and I see that the level of understanding, and, the knowledge that the teams, the founders that I meet today have is a few orders of magnitude, higher than what I had when I

started. So this is one thing. Secondly, the first money I raised to my company was half a $1,000,000, I think. It was a long time ago. It's a different ball game today. Yeah. It used to be a lot of money. It used to be a lot of money, and I gave a big equity chunk for that half a1000000 dollars worth of, funding. Today, it's a different ball game. This is pay more for much smaller part of, of, the company. So this is a a second, difference. And lastly,

I think the ecosystem is much more mature. The ecosystem of startups and that, that cradle the the the founders and support them. Right? I'll give you a few example. When you want to start, a venture and you raise money from any VC by the way, many many VCs are really good VCs in, provide you, air coverage of building your, company. They will, introduce you to relevant potential, customer or design partners. They will help you with future found of running funding.

Sorry. They will introduce to you potential, key hires to your company. They used to do it in the past, but, in in much less systemized manner. So I think that on one in one way, it's easier or more systematic, to be a founder these days. However, it's more competitive than it used to be back then. Interesting. What do you think has driven that the kind of the evolution? Just a few aside from inflation and being that, you know, half $1,000,000 isn't what it used to be. Well, I I think many

factors. 1st, you know, the industry matured in in I don't know. 20 years ago, there weren't so many tech startups out there. And as a derivative of that, there wasn't so so much of, institutional money to be invested in it. It wasn't a thing to invest in start up. It was, more of a hobby. Now it's more, matured and incorporated in many ways. So the the industry, like many other industries, matured

along, the way. Now, secondly, the world is becoming more tech, savvy or more tech driven, compared to what it was, 20 years ago. Right? That's true. Look at the Fortune, 500, companies. Who are the companies that now lead the Fortune 500 compared to who led the Fortune 500, least 20 years ago? Yeah. It's definitely tech heavy now. Yep. Yes. Absolutely. No. Those are

good points. Those are good points. It's interesting to see how just unintended consequences of, you know, things becoming more tech, heavy has changed things like the, you know, the S and P and, as well as the weighting of the Dow Jones, but also kind of our daily lives, but also, you know, the better venture capital industry. Like, it's a it's more sounds like it's more of a proper discipline now as opposed to, you know,

a hobby. Like, you know, kinda like we said, it was kinda, but now it's more of a professional discipline with with with proper kind of structure and form around it, I guess, would be a good way to put it. Yep. I agree. I agree. It's I think it's fair to describe it that way. Yeah. I

like the way you're approaching it. It's very systematic. It it feels, you know, it feels kind of appropriate in that there's, that there's a framework that you're following, a system that you're following, kind of a, like Frank said, a disciplined approach to it. And, it it feels self similar. So you're investing in technologies. Maybe you're looking for or maybe part of what you're looking for is someone who has the ability to perhaps create methodologies to solve business problems,

technical problems. And, you know, and and in doing that, you're applying this methodology that you've already built, you and your partner. I think it's, the right way to put it. In a way, if you want to become better in what you're doing, you must have a system. Doesn't matter which discipline you're involved with. But if you want to constantly

improve, you must have a system. Because without a system, you won't be able to look back in a retrospective and understand in a systematic manner what worked and what didn't work and how to improve it. So in order to have the the the the the base ground to analyze what worked and what didn't work, you need to have a a a framework, a systematic framework that will help you to do so. So you're describing an advanced, or mature. There's a capability maturity

models that are applied in software all the time. And what you're describing sounds very, very similar to that. And it's, you know, the same sort of thing that I recall from an article that I I read. I wanna say it was back in the nineties. And it was about the team that developed software for the Space Shuttle, for NASA Space Shuttle here in the US. And one of the things that, that they would do, an approach that they took was if there was a failure in the code, they didn't

go fix the failure. They went back to their process and found where that failed and let that failure in the code through. So it's it's funny that you describe it that way because of 2 things. 1st, I think the the people you referred to are very smarter than I am, and they build much greater things in a in a bigger unknown,

environment. But, in in in regards to that, internally at team 8, the the system we've built to how to IDA, to how to validate, to how to build a company, we actually, we actually call it the machine and and for a reason. We try to build a machine, that will help us build great companies. That that really

sounds impressive, and I'd love to know more about that. And I know we're, and I know we we have a limited amount of time, but I I'm fascinated by that application, you know, of this in a different field because I've seen, people try to attempt other methodologies that do great in software. My my number one experience was with the scrum agile method. Yep. And I was at a business where that was introduced, and we all learned it. I learned it there for

the first time. But then I saw the the business, part of that try and adopt, and and, you know, adapt from and adapt it to, applying it to business principles and business decisions. And in that particular instance, it failed miserably. And it was like I don't know what they did differently because I'm I wasn't that high up in the business. I was a low level manager. But but seeing that having that experience, seeing that fail

was eye opening. And it's really cool to see somebody applying this in a to a to a business model and especially to, venture capitalism and the funding of founders and the building of ideas, and taking an idea from actually taking it from before the idea even exists, just finding a founder and then building an idea and then building that idea to some product or service. That that's just very impressive to me. It's exciting to hear that that's happening. It sounds like the movie

inception. Right? Like Doesn't it? Yeah. You get it? That you can move before it's really a fully formed idea. You kinda nudge it along. Yeah. So so you know what? Let let let me give you a manifestation of, this process that, relates to our discussion, today. One of the things that, we build, at teammate as assets that we use to, to execute upon that motion is what we refer to as the villages. We

have a couple of them. We have the CISA village, the system information security officer village, and, the data village. The Cisco village obviously is a network of, great CISOs from across the globe. Many Fortune 500, companies CISOs are part of, that network. And in the data village, we have, CDOs and and head of, data operations in different

companies all across the globe. And the reason why we build these, networks that, we work very hard to maintain and to create engagement in these networks, it's not only because of the of the social, for exactly for exactly what we've talked to. For example, recently, and we do it on a on a cadence. We reach out to our network to learn about their day to day and top of mind issues and challenges that they

face in the real life. And, we use that, as an input for us to map the world and understand which areas are, mostly painful for, the the, network, members of ours. And it's a great indication for us to start investigating whether there is a potential to build a company there. Right? So this is one thing. And the second part of it, is later in the process. So, let's say we build a thesis. Let's say I came up with a thesis in

a data infrastructure, vertical. Now I really like, my thesis, but, nobody cares about the fact that I like them. I need the network to like them. Right? Because they're their potential, buyer eventually. So I take the thesis that, we processed internally at, at, team 8 that we worked on it, and I bring it to their table. I want to hear a candid feedback from, these, village members, what they think about it, and, why,

we don't know what we're talking about or the opposite. Why this is the the best thing since sliced bread? Right. Right. Yeah. It's it's almost like it takes a village, you know, or takes Exactly. You know? Exactly. The approach. Interesting. No. This is fascinating. Like, you know, it's it's it's fascinating to see kind of

how this this world works as someone who is kind of, you know, on the outside and kind of I watched our tank. There's actually a knockoff version of the show called elevator pitch, which I've seen. You know, it's not my client's getting shark tank, but so what would be your advice to entrepreneurs? Like and and, like, what would be your advice for them in general? They have an idea. And what would be your advice to them to, like, say, hey. I wanna execute

on this idea. Like, what how would they best approach a venture capitalist in today's kind of terms? Right? Because it used to be you have to write this huge document way back, then it became, oh, you see the PowerPoint deck. Right? I'm pretty sure it's evolved to something else now. What what what what would be your advice to somebody in that position? So, I'm trying to address this, question, holistically and not,

tactically. First, I think that, having a founder that, operates in that specific domain for some time is very important. To have an intimate relationship with a problem, I think it's a get great indicator, for a great, problem understanding and potentially to solve that problem. So this is one thing. Secondly, critical thinking. Right? Sometimes all of us, fall in love with our ideas. Right? And and and this could be the the one of the the biggest detractors or or company destroyers

out there, to fall in love with what you do. I mean, you should fall in love with it, but you should also be very judgmental about everything you do and question every step you take. For example, I give you the example. We come up with a thesis that sounds to us or feel to us very good, and we have, a lot of confidence with that. It's nice, but it doesn't mean a lot. I need the actual market, the actual, friction of the market,

to indicate the same thing. So we try to be as critical thinkers as, possible. The people, we talked about it. Building your, founding team is crucial, for your success. And, it's one of the those things that I believe that you should build a team in a way that 1 +1equal 3, meaning the sum of the people, or the the the value of the group is bigger than the sum of, the

people. And to make sure you have a a good distribution of, skill set in that team, you have someone that is more business oriented, someone is more technical oriented, someone is more, focused on a product. These are great indicators or initial great indicators for, a good founding team, and and and and a good venture.

I I love that approach. I love the overlapping bends, for both passion and for skill. The thing you said earlier, though, that that really, that I wanna go back to is the idea of an idea, if you will. So, yes, people can, I think, approach with a a great idea? And I see this all of the time on a much smaller scale, just managing teams of individuals that people will look at a a solution or look at a problem that needs to be solved and come up with a solution that

is okay. Maybe not great, maybe it'll solve it, but it would be so much better if they just added a couple of, you know, a couple of tweaks to that idea. And it could be too. That that's one part of it. The other part of working with others, and this is the crucial part of that, building that team that you're talking about. And it's my experience

with it is that, sometimes you need somebody to look you in the eye and say, that's a bad idea. And it really it can go a couple of ways from there. So one way it can go, and I think this is often overlooked, so I'm gonna mention it first, is that they may be wrong about that. It may be a great idea, and somebody's got a passion for it, and they want to, to build this thing. But here's an option. You don't you can build it, but maybe you don't have to

build it right now. If you build this other idea, which is, you know, what everyone agrees that you should build, now everyone's engaged. You've got the power of all of those blends of skills and passions, and you can produce this product now. Go ahead and do that. Spend a few years on it. Make your money, and then you can go off and build your passionate project. And it could be that that also succeeds. So that just I that's just that take

on it. I I really like that idea, though, the team. I think anybody who's ever worked in a good team has enjoyed that experience and seeks to repeat that experience because it is truly an awesome thing. It's a great feeling when the team clicks. I couldn't agree more with you, Andy. One thing that, was, I heard between the words of what you said is something that I also relate to, and this is the process. Right? We talked about the team. We talked about, the perspective of being a judgmental or

critical thinker about everything you do. But one thing that I think is overlooked sometime is the process itself. I mean, I hear on a on an average week at least 20, 30 new ideas. Right? Ideas are at best at best, 20% of the success of a new start up at best. 80% if not more, it's all about the execution of the idea. Right. The execution of the idea. And, there there are many many layers to this statement. You start with the idea. Right? But, then reality

happens. Right? And you see that, yeah. And then you see that the idea well, the the the origin of the idea is right, but, you need to constantly navigate the idea, the product vision, you know, with the conjunction of, the reality. And Sure. The best teams, others are the ones that can navigate, in a very up, open and critical thinking way the product from the the initial idea to the actual, embodiment or the actual manifestation of the product that it that

they will, end up with. So the process itself is super important in my mind. Yeah. I I so agree with that. We have a there's a a famous military statement, but what you said reminded me of a modification of it. It's like no idea survives contact with reality. Mike Tyson is also known for for a similar quote where everybody has a plan until they

get punched in the face. That's right. But I think I think that ties into something, you had said earlier, Adiad, was, you know, like, you you you wanna love your idea and you wanna fall in love with your idea, but I don't think you want your love to blind your common sense. So here is a a a quote I really like, to use. Don't fall in love with your solution. Fall in love with the problem. Right? Make sure you have yeah. Make sure you're you're very, very familiar with the problem.

You really relate to it, you understand it in a very intimate manner, the right solution will evolve, will evolve throughout the process if if if you're a strong leader. Right. Wow. Yes. That's good. That's really good. That's a quotable. Definitely. I know we're short on time, and, normally, we do all these questions, but I think we can do an abbreviated one. I think the first question I'd have for you is how did you get how did you find your way into into

being a VC? Right? Like, did did it find you or did you find it? So probably a little bit of both. So, as I mentioned, before I joined T9, I was, I spent 15 years in a company I founded, a AI analytics company. And it was a great success. Right? When I left the company, it was at 100 and $60,000,000 of reoccurring revenue, and we had more than 800, employees, globally. But I did it for a very long period of time, 15 years. And I started that company out of college. It's almost, the the cliche

of, founding up, a startup. You're doing brilliant. Yeah. And I wanted to to

to, you know, to experience few other things. So when I started to have these existential thoughts, I informed the board of directors of, my company, and it took some time until I departed. But, during my last few years at Sisense, I also became an active angel investor. So I tried to start, giving back to the community of, entrepreneurship in Tel Aviv, by meeting founders and offering them my candid support and advice. That's it. And, I started to do

that. And every once in a while, I met up, founders or a team that I got really excited, from. And, I I I asked them if I can also invest some of my own money. And this is how I started my, angel investment, journey. When I departed from teammate, You mean Sisense? Yep. Sorry. Sisense. I, had a lot of free time on my plate. So, naturally, I became more and more active

in my angel investments. If you ask me when I when I left, Sisense, if I'll, if I want to become a VC, the answer would have probably been no way. I'm a founder. I'm a founder. I'm going

to start a new company. And, I was very close to start up, a new company, after Sisense, but the reality is that it didn't happen. Now I can talk for hours about the psychological, reasons for that, but it didn't happen. And, I I can think of why not, but, eventually, after, I became, quite, active angel investor, I met the teammate, people. And, they talked to me for quite some time, and I remember the first few talk, that they asked me about the, about potentially

working together. I told them I will never become a VC. But after some kind of, relationship for a long term, they came to me and told me, but, Aviad, you you were saying you're not you don't want to be a VC, but you actually invest in companies for your living. This is what you're doing currently. So join us. Don't fool yourself. Look at the mirror and join us, and it made sense. And, this is how I became a,

a VC. You understand? That sounds like, Frank and I talk often about divine appointments, and it sounds very much like like one of those. You happen to run into the these people and it happened or, you know, your first reaction was not positive. That's great. Our next question is, what is your favorite part of your current gig? Very easy answer. Working with great founders. By far, meeting the teams, identify that these are great, great entrepreneurs. This is what makes me tick. And

spending as much time, with them. I don't care doing what? Spending time with them? This is my favorite part of, my current gig. That is awesome. Very cool. We have 3 complete the sentences. When I'm not working, I enjoy blank. Well, it's a little bit embarrassing because, I don't have many hobbies. I really like, I really like, working. I I mean, obviously, my family. I love my family. So if I have spare time, I'm gonna I'm gonna spend it with, my wife and,

kids. But if I'm not doing that, I'm probably working. No. I'm right there with you. Don't be embarrassed. You're I I don't know if you're in good company, but you have a lot of company. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's an interesting way to phrase it. So our second complete sentence, I think the coolest thing in technology today is blank. Oh, so many cool new things in technology. I think the most prominent one is the

AI revolution we're all experiencing. It's disrupting so many verticals, and very, very quickly, probably more, or faster than anything I've seen in the past. I thought when the cloud movement started, I don't know, 10 years ago, I thought this is the the quickest, evolution or revolution in technologies that I've seen. Nothing compared to, the speed of AI, and and how quickly it changes so many in it's in I thought we had reached kind of, a

certain plateau of pace. But then when Chat GPT came out, I mean, it did just, like, just accelerated. You know? What do you think made Cheggipt, becoming the pivotal thing in the perception of everyone that is, the reason for the the change in perception around AI? I personally think is the way that it was presented. It has you know, there's 2 factors to it. 1, it's a chatbot. Right? So people can kinda relate to that. Right? That's

it the the the and big deal. Right? There's been chatbots around for number of years. But I think the real thing that blew people away was it destroyed the notion that AI can't be creative. Well, this is very close to what I think. Mhmm. I was dazzled. I mean, I heard about bots. I played with many bots in the past. But the first time I started to play with JetJPT, I was dazzled by the

quality, how good it was. And it was light years, better than anything else, any other chatbot that I've seen, and and it was very apparent that this is a revolution for me at least. That was that was my reaction. Right? So when it came out, I was presenting because we we launched a product to Red Hat about the same time and at at AWS reinvent. Right? So I was kind of in AWS reinvent land. And I go I get to the airport at Vegas because early because when you wanna leave Vegas, you do you wanna

leave. Right? So I get to the airport early, and I'm like, you know, I a lot of people I know have been, like, raving about chat GBP and saying how great it is. And I'm like, alright. Alright. So let me just ask it. How do I start how do I get started with SageMaker? I think that was the original question I asked it. And I had a expectation of, well, you do this, you do this, you do this. But, like, the the the answer behind it was so coherent and so cogent.

Like you said, it was light years beyond my expectations. And I'm continually amazed at, like, what it can do. Right? Like, it and it blows my mind to this day and this is, like, what's going on 2 years later. Absolutely. Absolutely. Alright. Andy, you want the the next complete the sentence or has the allergies gotten you? Alright. I will I will ask you for him so we stay on some kinda sketchy. Sneezing. He's probably sneezing. Alright. Complete the sentence.

I look forward to the day when I can use technology to blank.

Take away the vast majority of my day to day bureaucracy. Right? Dealing with the bank and taxes. And I think we're getting quickly towards that. Quickly towards that. I'm involved in a company that, is actually building, disruptive technology in, filing your taxes every year. And they do it, yeah, doing it automatically in a in a very good manner.

I met up, founding team in in legal deck that they build, a technology that can summarize thousands of, legal document very, very quickly and just do, the red lines very, very quickly and replace, you know, the the tedious work of, endless, hours of, lawyers in that regard. So I think we're at the right direction towards that, but, it's a brave new word, I think. I don't know what the tax code is outside the US, but

in the US, it's very convoluted and confusing. Yep. So if you can have an AI that you can explain it to you like you're 5, you know what I mean, that would be very useful. There are a few very exciting technologies that, are after that goal, so stay tuned. I will eagerly be awaiting that. So share something different about yourself. It's a family podcast. Like, it's a it's a family podcast in the sense of, we went into this before. Like, when I drive to where

my my my wife's family is, it's about 3 hours. It's about 1 Joe Rogan episode away, but I can't listen. That's influence. Right? You measure time and distance based on your podcast. Right? That is true. But, so I don't listen to it because I have kids in the car. So what that's the rationale behind it. So what's your, you know, what what's, you know would you answer that? Yeah.

So first thing that comes to mind that, not many people know about me, I, really love traveling, and I used to to backpack in South America for almost a year. Oh, wow. A while ago. A while ago. But backpack by myself as a decision. I wanted to backpack by myself in South America, and I did it for 11 months. Wow. That is very interesting. You must have gotten a lot of, like, clarity on things. Like, just along with your thoughts. It feels amazing. I

have to admit. That's awesome. So, Audible is a sponsor. And if you go to the data driven book dotcom, you can sign up for a month. And if you decide to subscribe after that, then Frank and I get to buy a coffee. It it works out well because we both like coffee. We treasure every cup. Is there a a good audio book or just a a book that has influenced you, impacted you? Yeah. Actually, there is one. It's called the mom's test. I don't know if you heard about it, but a few of the thing,

that, we talked earlier relate to that book. And the mom test is a book about how, this is my interpretation of it, how to properly validate ideas. Right? In a very, as I mentioned, a very critical thinking way and doubtful way, that I usually advise, founders that I meet to read. I think it's very valuable. Interesting. Okay. I see it on Audible. I tested the link earlier, the data driven book.com, and it took me right over to Audible like it was

supposed to, and it's by Rob Fitzpatrick. Is that accurate? Okay. The mom test. I love that title. Yep. Very cool. You know, in a in a nutshell in a nutshell,

when, when you question people about idea, it talks about few things we we've mentioned is to focus on the problem and not the solution. Right? If I'll tell you, hey, guys. I have an idea for a great app on your iPhone that organize your icons. I don't know. What do you think about it? And you'll probably say, oh, it's cool. That feedback is meaningless. I learned nothing from that feedback.

Right? Right. So how you structure the questionnaire? How you structure the discussion in order to properly validate the problems, the solution, and such is at the at the core of this book, and I think it's super valuable. Well, I love it when authors read their own work, and he does. And so I grabbed it. It's, about almost 4 hours long, and that's that makes it kind of a short audiobook, which is also, perfect. I love that as

well. So I appreciate you, recommending that, and I'm going to read that, and then I'm gonna connect with you on LinkedIn so I can give you feedback on that, on what I would do at work. I would love that. Well, this has been an amazing show, Frank. Absolutely. I I it was it was a pleasure, Aviat. Yep. Where where people reach out to find out more about you? That's what I was gonna say. You're most welcome, and I'm very accessible. If you want to talk again, just, have my email. Send me an

email. I travel a lot to the US. So next time on, on the East Coast, I get to New York a lot. So if you're there, I'll be happy to meet for I'll buy you coffee. You said you like coffee. That would be outstanding, sir. Thank you so much. So if, where can people learn about your, the company you're working with now? Sorry. Say it again. So where where might people learn more about the, the group you're working with now? Team 8. Team 8. Yes. So, we can

do multiple things. 1st, check our website, teammate, dot v c. You can read all about this team 8, the motion, the the portfolio companies, the founders, and such. And, if you need more information, I'll be more than happy to share with you, you know, marketing information and everything you need. So that is for our listeners team, the word team, and then the number 8 dot v c. Correct. Pretty awesome. Okay. Excellent. Andy and Frank, I had a blast. Thank you very much. Same we did

too. Same Learned a lot of you. Yeah. Great great conversation. Thank you so much. Well, excellent. You. With that, we'll let the nice British AI lady finish the show. Well, that's a wrap on

another episode of data driven. We hope you enjoyed our chat with Aviad Harrell from team 8 as much as we did. If you found this episode insightful, please show your support by liking, subscribing, and leaving a review on your favorite podcast platform. Your support helps us continue to bring you fascinating conversations and the latest in AI, data science and data engineering. Stay connected with us on social media and visit our website for more content.

Until next time, keep learning, keep innovating, and as always, stay data