4. Itihaasa (history) of Analytics in India

So we need to step to World War One. Okay, there was World War One and there was it was difficult for folks to travel by ship between India and England. Okay, let's wear our story starts. So so far we've talked about these researchy and Academia stuff like that right here. So computers are in use in the 1960s for doing grunt work. And was the grunt work was payroll processing through tons, okay.

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The graduating students talk about data analytics as a possible career path in case they fail to die and the core engineering job. So how did we get here in India? How did data and analytics become so mainstream that graduating students talk about it as a possible career path or rather as a backup possible career path to understand this? We need to understand the history of what we now called

analytics and this history goes back over. 100 years, Our Guest today is envious into co-founder and CEO of easa research and digital for the last two decades. He has been working on R&D and Innovation, man. Judgment, especially focused on ID is working on the evolution of Business and Technology focused on ID and related domains in the Indian context in earlier about that.

He was a consultant advising msc's setting up high performance, our Indie and it organizations in India who was also a researcher in the RND arm at Infosys and quote a couple of u.s. Paintings. Let's just go very far back. Right? So, so I guess the analytics in some sense is sort of the tunnel in India. It's connected to sort of economics and the and industries and so on.

So can you take us back maybe all the way back to Independence or something? So classic, we need Step really back. Okay, so we need to step to World War One. Okay. There was World War One and there was, it was difficult for folks to travel by ship between India and England. Okay. Let's wear our story starts. There was a young Gentleman by name PC. Mahalanobis. Okay. Who didst? I pause, try pause in Cambridge University of Cambridge in physics, and was set to return

to India and death. And World War One started and his stay in India got extended. So just before he got to India, he was with a tutor and the tutor in. So, the studio system is pretty interesting. Right? So, you are bought a bunch of students that you sit with a tutor and you talk about everything under the sun and life and meaning of life and things like that. So, one of his tutors mentioned to him about relatively new field and interesting Journal

that published. Field and this new field was statistics and the journal was biometrika. Okay, so so p.c. Mylow Nobis. Say that. Okay. Let me just say you don't read a few of these journals and he was so intrigued by what was published there and statistics in general that he bought a, you know, whole bunch of, you know, old issues of biometrika on his way back to India and we're

studying them with the ship. So, the interesting fact for folks in non latex, is that biometrika was founded started by this gentleman called Karl Pearson. Okay, Pearson off. Yeah. Yeah. The correlation correlation is p. I'll use your Chi Square method of moments and stuff like that, right? Yep. So so, so mahalanobis was, you know, it just caught on to it and fell in love with statistics. So, he gets back to India and then his, obviously his return back to England is delayed.

So he gets a faculty position at the presidency college. And in the due course, he starts lab all the statistics lab, and this lab is essentially his office. Okay? Okay. So, so the war ends, he's comfortable in Calcutta teaching a bit of physics and, and studying, a lot of Statistics and then whoever is interested in statistics. He offers courses in statistics to them and soon he is the, you know, the students of Statistics are India.

And, you know, we have the, we have the Bengal famine coming in and mahalanobis was saying Gates by the government of Bengal to estimate the the, you know, the amount of party that will be harvested in Bengal and surrounding regions. So he does a lot of cool work there and for this uses

mechanical calculators, right? So at that point in time, they know electronic calculator, so he gets that and he gets a, you know, a bunch of people who are actually the computers humans Computing to, to Crunch all the data that is collected and, you know, run the regulations and stuff like that. So in this context, he he realizes it statistics East.

To be established as a separate subject Zone and decides to start a DOT for profit, which is is I in the Statistical Institute and I get 32. Okay, so is I starts and then he goes, you know, full thrust into a statistics and he's the first guy to import electronic computer into India.

Okay, in 1956, motivated by the The fact that he was, you know, he started what's now called the national sample survey is essentially a sample of Indian households, you know, and data collect collected on what the households consume, and where they spend their money. And and you know, how many people are there and how healthy are they and things like that? Okay, so he starts started the early 50s and the mid 50's. He is the, you know, he's the author of the second Five-Year Plan. Yes.

It's a lot of, you know, analytics economics going on so the computer can Which is a key c2m from the United Kingdom and that's the first electronic digital computer than India. So that's where the entire virtual. I say the discipline of Statistics analytics and even computer science to some extent started in. India comes in statistics and analytics in India is like 100 years old. If, if it is during the first world war that he made his journey back to India with the

essence papers. Yes. So how about? So when you were telling me a story with are two questions popped into my head. First one was like when he established this is, is the not for profit which became is a 1932. Did he manage to get other faculty members? And if so, like, how how do we recruit those faculty members? Because I assume not too many people who are studying statistics in India packet back at that point in time.

And the second question is later on when he got the computer positive and there's a famous story about how like Infosys. Auntie to can import a computer into India and they had to kind of flick go through some lots of Hoops for that. Like, how easy was it for Maja numbers, to get his computer into I say on the UK. Okay.

So the the first set of folks, as you write, he said the Rabia still not statistics folks, but they were folks were interested in statistics, but but higher their training and other subjects like physics and math. So but they just, you know, where students of Hello numbers, and we're intrigued interested and passionate about doing statistics. So they were the first folks who were teaching there and doing

research. And is I, so the, the compute, the import of the computer was was, you know, it's pretty straightforward because mahalanobis and Pandit nehru will good friends. Yep, so he could ensure that, you know, that there was you know, there was never know. What should I say? No obstacles in terms of foreign exchange for travel and things of that required to get a computer. So, incidentally, the second

computer in India was also too. Is I this time it was a computer from the USSR called the Ural. So this is a time when mahalanobis was starting to being towards the left and and decided that, you know, he could, he could get, you know, more bang for the buck by going in for a computer from the Eastern block. So So this is a 1959 or so. We have 59, when the computer lat.

So, again, used for statistics largely for algebraic and statistical calculations correctly, and I guess back then, since we were sort of a pseudo socialist, sort of mixed economy with with five year plans. And so what I'm guessing that statistics would have formed it would be the you do been an important part for the

government, right? Because like if you need to know how to allocate, if you want to know how to allocate resources, you need to be able to kind of This stuff will like get the information in the in the right Manner and and so on, so on, so I can imagine say we're mahalanobis, 40 patients in that time. B is I was so pivotal in terms of the statistics that you need and oh, I absolutely.

I mean, he was, so in some sense, the father of the five year plans and in terms of doing large-scale Nation scale, serve base, so it was spot on and that's the and we are still following that his legacy. In terms of continuing. I mean not to The Five-Year plans, but definitely with the national sample survey and similar large surveys that we conduct. Yep. Yep. Okay. So, and then, like, while I is high in Calcutta was like, kind of importing its computers, it was doing its cats.

Like, I guess the other big scientific Institute in India that time was our Indian Institute of Science in Bangalore. So what was happening, there was, was there some statistics work done there or like, was there some introduction to what? We now know, as analytics, that was kind of Happening there and so on.

You know, so this is pretty interesting because the Indian Institute of science was at that time, obviously the leader in player in Science, Education in the country, but they were also getting pretty big on Engineering in the fifties. Okay. So India, newly independent and then required these Engineers to kind of, you know, to to to to ensure that some of the big projects are India was

undertaking at that. In time, in terms of building, physical infrastructure, the electrical infrastructure and things like that, where required Manpower required research and

Indian Institute of science is playing a big role there and India sort of things obviously from its its founding days always attracted a lot of foreign faculty who come and spend a year or two, teaching it at The Institute. So in 1954 55 it had a You know, electrical engineering Professor from Wisconsin, Professor ride out.

So right out apparently came to Bangalore with with the reams of paper with with a whole set of pencils and pens and erasers because he was not sure about what was available in Bangalore and if it was available how long, or how many he could buy? Okay, so that's an interesting story about about Professor ride out, but he got something very interesting. Probably for the first time in India was that he got a

transistor and offline? Okay. So the 74 ones that we were all used to, in our College lab site. So 741, but not in integrated circuit, but at the transistor, yep, so he got that along and one of the Masters students. There Raja Ramen work with him and they built an analog circuit using the APA, which could solve leader. Friendly questions.

Okay. So an analog circuit where you could look at the readings of the meter and then, and then, you know, figure out that what the solution to the linear. Differential equation was pretty complicated, but that's what it will mean. It's like, you know, it's a it's a it's a 7 8 foot high board and about for sorry eight feet high and about the four feet. Okay, that was how it was.

And after Professor wrote left. He left the transistor back and Raja Ramen added the the nonlinear differential circuits also, so it was actually a pretty neat fishy. They were a couple of for PhD students who use this analog computer to complete their calculations on things like, you know, vibrations of columns in civil engineering. Cheering. Okay. All right, in terms of calculating transients, which are nothing but sudden spikes in AC current.

So these guys actually use the computer to do these things. So here you have a context of an engineering analytics. Yep, because previously people, you know, use the electrical calculators or mechanical calculators to do it. And now you have a machine, which could be, you know, which could be kind of plugged in the circuit. Would, you know, would be your problem with Duh be sorted. So this probably was the first time when, when India was using analytic X to solve engineering problems.

That 50 years old, more than 50 years old using analytics resolved. Yeah, but yeah. Mid 50's. Yes, and how far behind we compared to? Let's say the Western countries in terms of the use of analytics for engineering problems, are things like that back room. This was a time. Okay. So the use of of digital computers to solve to solve engineering problems, was just fist towards the end of the second world war. And, and the first problem which was solved was probably the

projectile problem. Yeah. So so if I'm having a poet sir, kind of a gun, so, where would my buy ammunition land? Given different kinds of wind velocities and different directions? Okay, so previously these, you know, the soldiers used to carry a booklet. We'll choose to do which is to have all the calculations with them. Okay, and it was done by hand and not very accurate.

So this computer could do it for different models of these hope to sell guns and it could be, it could be made into a booklet are given to these soldiers. So that is the probably the first real life from Pure salt. So this is the e meac at the University of Pennsylvania. So, yep. So, okay. So it happened in the mid 40s. Early mid 40. So in India, we were using this in the 50s. So we weren't that far behind.

You think about it? Take a technology because of his know, how so we were you know, we weren't lacking back by that many years at all. Okay. Okay. Okay. So I think like the way I look at it like we are looking at all the sort of the eminent scientific institutes in India.

Like he started off with is a then we move to a see now TFR and we see that all of them have Sort of laid their own big Parts in in sort of furthering analytics, as we now call it a me like back then, all nobody bothered calling it analytics. So with, and then what happened? Where does the story go? Right? So a couple of interesting stories before I kind of want to the next, you know, the next phase. So the person who who, you know, be mentioned and I see Raja Ramen.

Yeah, he went on to do a Steve u.s. Came back as a young faculty in IIT kanpur yet and he was a faculty in charge of the center in IIT. Kanpur. Yep, and he was the person who started the first M Tech electrical engineering with a specialization in computer science. Okay, and he was the person who started the first PTEC program in computer science of India. It can't put a 1978. Okay? Okay, so there is a connect between Radha, Raman, and a lot of things that it doesn't end

there. So one of the students in the 1978 batch of, for the first batch of computer science at IIT kanpur was a young kid called Rajeev motwani. Okay, so forget it is a PhD in Berkeley. Yes, Stanford and co-wrote a paper on pagerank algorithm, the third of students and stand for and you know who they are and

grillin page. And then he was a board member at Google. And when we talk about analytics in the current Instead of the companies that are leaders and, you know, the big politics, that's like, you know, what planet scale and stuff like that. It's obviously Google. So there is a bit of a India connection there. So, and I think the Moto an eclair tragically passed away a few years back. I think he had Yes actually reading.

So, both more 20 and rather. I mean, I think I had prescribed text by them during my btech in computer science. I think there was a elements of oh, yeah. Computers that regimen had written, which was our yes, 64, our introduction to commute Computing. The course for all the students at IIT Madras like the that was at the nobody bothered to buy the book but there was a Prosthetics and then, like, we had some, I'll go books by more 20 and I forget to who the co-authors were later on the

right. So right. Yeah, so they're Doyle's of computer or education. I mean, Roger Amin is literally the person who also who were So gave a give the government a report which essentially said that we need to start this program called an MCA. So if you're looking at these lacks of MCAS your oh, yeah, coming out of India universities. They all have to thank Professor other up. Well, okay. Okay, it's some days. It's interesting. When you go back, how the origin

stories are somehow. There's constricted right? There are a few key people here in there. Whose names sort of pop up all over the place or people they have been associated with David. Have created an impact. Like you mentioned, you mentioned more 20 and people like that and so on sure. Yeah, and it's fascinating because the, the first batch of btech in kanpur. Yep. They said that the overall strength of B Tech is a constant, right? Okay. So Raja Ram a literally had to

go and beg his colleagues. Hey, give me one seed from your department. Give me two seats from your department and that's why it started off with about 20 seats slightly less than that. Okay? And very soon. Into the to the bewilderment of the other faculty. Computer science is attracting the best of the best. So, yep. So any other sort of famous names from that batch is apart from more 28. Is there anyone like who?

Okay, so mode 1 e is definitely one person there, but then more to Honey, wasn't the PGM from that patch. Okay, so that the PGM from that batch is a bangle, Orion Cinema. As prachanda, who's a faculty at replied Phoebe. So he went to what wani went to Berkeley and Persona went to MIT and Bell labs and his Peyton's probably powered. I don't know a few hundred million a billion dollars of revenue for Bell labs, and he's a bag Orion and works at apply T be so. Okay.

So so my glorious can be proud. So very interesting, which is a very, very interesting. Okay. Now, Now that we now let's come back to the story. We were talking about, I think we spoke about Raja Ram in, in the IAC context, when he was a master student. Then we spoke over here. But and then where did it go? Where it first analytics and related stuff. Go. Okay. So so far we've talked about these researchy and Academia

stuff like that, right? Yeah, so computers and they are used in the 1960s for doing grunt work. And what's the grunt work was payroll processing through the jute Mills? Okay. So it's interesting because people would ask why jute Mills because in Most states route Mill workers had to be paid on a weekly basis, and if not, they would be stripes and the strike would go on for nothing less than a couple of weeks or a

month. So the owners of the journals wanted to ensure that payrolls processed correctly and on time and the IBM, guys would process it in a centralized Center at the end of the week. They would go and give it The

Jew till a judgment and they would use pay the workers. Right? So it was just doing basic arithmetic stuff. You're doing it correctly. Yes, the first instance of some analytics, kind of work, or an interesting decision. Work was done by the PSU steelman's. Okay, and there was an IBM for, you know, 1501, which was used to schedule production of Of the offer type of skin based on the demand and Analysis of the

demand was done. And then a production schedule was, was formulated using the 1401 machine. I've, you know, one machine. So this was probably the first time when there was a decision that was made help offer computer or or you know, modern analytics, if you can call it at that point in time, so it was born analytics and 1960s will be different from but this is the first instance. And our model was hit to determine what kind of production mix would be there. The steel factories climbing.

So this is the mid-sixties. Okay? Yeah. So so or was this coming to to, you know, coming into mainstream in the US as well at this point and time. Yeah, and they were obviously folks, you know, from India who would travel to us for Are doing their higher studies and phds especially in management schools and an industrial engineering schools that point in time. So couple of them where where one is kanodia and Justin Patel, they join a division of Tata Sons called tecs Tata

consultancy services. So it was an internal unit Roofing work for for their own group companies for Tata Sons, you know, companies. So, these guys said that. Hey now, I think we can also expand our our Target to companies outside of the outside of the Tata group and we have, you know, we can do multiple stuff. We can do management consulting, we can do it Consulting. We can also do some TurnKey work by using computers, and then giving just see the results to the customers.

And, you know, I looked at one of the brochures at that point. Bye. So 19 early 1968. This is a time and mr. Coley hadn't joined TCS. Okay. So this was just a very nascent young Bunch there. So I'm just reading of one particular sentence from that brochure early 1968. So it says that the scientific approach. The direction of data, there are analysis and a deep understanding of the mechanics of business that result from a

study. All contribute to making business decisions, less uncertain or at least to remove some of the uncertainty in the mind of the decision-maker. And then it continues to say since the number of alternative choices in a decision process can be very large, a computer comes in very handy in providing fast and accurate answers. So, this is a 1968 and if you could just you know, change the language a little bit, it can be used in any brochure today.

I can use it today. I can totally use it to me right now. I don't need to, I don't need to sell the you. Computers to anyone. So I, but if I had to, I mean, I would, I would definitely use this is now extremely forward-thinking, right? Yeah, so it's fascinating. It's fascinating to see how, you know, these guys were really pioneers and, you know, trying to convince Indian companies to use or use analytics. And, you know, and also in some sense pushing the use of

computers. So one interesting, you know, connection here, is that young statistical power. Out of this group. The CC is group. Okay. So his name was Kara smoothie. Okay, so that was part of the group and rings, the bell, right? So care is moved. He does some interesting stuff. He goes and gets his master's from MIT a PhD from Harvard Business, School comes back joins as faculty of IMM, but but the most interesting thing was that he comes as a director of IIM Bangalore in 1992.

Okay, and he chips and Tatian of IIM Bangalore from a second. All public sector. Focus to a typical be school in terms of management functional Focus, right? And I am banknote becomes the first be school last year to launch an MBA and analytics. Yep. Yes. So so it's it's a small connection between the TC is of the late 60s and then the modern Olympics, education in India. Yeah. Okay, so I am be the First, first one to launch this in the formula billion analytics, right?

It's not like one of these sort of a short-term courses. It is. No, it's not a certificate program. Know it's a two-year MBA full-time and it's a specialization analytics. Oh, okay. It is very, very interesting. Okay. Now, let's assume. So you mentioned that, TC yourself marketed is use of analytics, use of our Industries and so on. But back then we were a sort of a highly controlled economy.

And so, and so was there, but demand for this from other You thought, because the returns to efficiency was not very high rate. So yeah, so see they were doing pretty interesting work. But obviously, you know, if you have a supply constraint in terms licence Raj. Yeah, and there's only so much that unleaded methods can do advising, you know, textile mills or now.

What is the most profitable blend of Orton that you can use for your product line and they were Advising, you know, transmission companies in terms of where they eat to locate Lawtons Mission Towers. Yep, so and they were doing obviously, some sales forecasting for Consumer durables, and quite a few of these companies where, like, you know, Tomko was they do their own good company?

Yeah, Tata electric was also, there's so the Mills were obviously Calico but a few other means which pair, which better third-party companies as well. So they could, you know, do some cool work at that point in time. Was not only TCS. There was also another interesting company at this time, which was doing these are latex work which was called operations research group. It was a companies founded in 61 based in Baroda founded by none, other than becomes Arabic.

Okay. So becomes our Rabbi is, you know, kind of a polymath Amelia. It's got his hands and in right from the Indian space programme to possibly create a search to PRL physical Laboratories. Yep, and you know, so he he started this to ensure that the the industries in Gujarat, especially the the exciting Industries and the chemical Industries chemical and Pharma Industries had a good grounding in scientific management to make their decisions.

Okay. So so this was started in Baroda of all places and and obviously the connection between o RG become tarah by is I am I'm double. Yep. So yes, so, you know, at some time in the early Genesis time of the first few years of IMM. The body was a lot of interaction between IMM the bath and Hua ji. Okay, and I am debarred, the incidentally is the first be school in India to get your. So they want to computer on the late 60s. It was the HP to 1160 which was a tabletop computer.

It wasn't me. A computer at that time. Okay, very nice machine and motivation. Was that half the school? Had this computer. So horrible, so I am a set that up. Let's get this computer for brilliant, for, for I met was the was the person who got it. And the computer center manager for this HD 2116 be was none other than a gentleman called. Narayana Murthy. And are not okay that explains today and he said, he was the need to view of his on TV on.

Canada used to hide their, he spoke about going to another, but after his graduation from, from IIT kanpur to, but he didn't explain. What work. He did it. I am a so we'll see will setting the computer center there. Okay, very for me. It is also when sort of like in some sense, big kick started coming into India rate. Like I've been t.i., I think opened their office in India in 81 if I'm not wrong. And so so I guess like Analytics.

It's also in terms of like offshoring and like, the working for Western companies that also would have started around the same time. Yeah, no, you just spot-on. So this is still continuing with the with the Rajiv Gandhi.

Peace. When he became the Prime Minister. He was, you know, he was a person who made a couple of visits quick visits to the in quick succession to the US. So, he went to Paris late privately 87, if I'm not mistaken, so, we had the great rapper with President Reagan and the relationship between India

and the, you can't talk. So this was also the time and from, you know, from the early 80s, I think there was a lot more action, you know, of the American MNC is in India, and then they knew that India was a, you know, was a friendly place to do business and things like that. So so one company, which is present in India, but was had a

very small operation was the AmEx, the retail bank. Yeah, right. So in 1983, they decided to start. Are there are cards division in India also, like all good American Banks, they recruited folks for the, you know, for marketing, the cards and also for the back and processing. And these, you know, and they recruited some pretty smart folks, including one person by name Robin drawing for their processing of credit cards.

So he was a chartered accountant and And you know, so so the number of Chartered Accountants at the back end card processing in in a mix grew and very soon. They were just not doing the routine processing that you would do for a car but also doing some interesting stuff like Risk and credit analytics and stuff like that. So this impress the the the the folks in HQ, okay, because they were getting some, some super quality work done. 50% of the cost.

So, sometime in the mid 80s, late 80s makes back office in India in Delhi was doing all the back office. Look for a mix cuss in the APAC region.

Okay. So that was probably the first time that this, you know, the whole concept of, of a back office from India started off and And one of the things that that happened in the prime minister's visit to the US was that was that he supposed to have met up with Jack Welch of GE and obviously Jack Wills wanted to sell more into India and some of the advisers of the Prime Minister, including Sam's it protons are. And I'm a supposed to have told them that hey, you know, that's nice.

But why don't you also pick up some software services from us from India? Yep, so that was a time in He decided to go offshore to India and and the beneficiary, is there all the Indian it companies at that time, including TCS imposes that Pro. So, so G was pretty impressed with the kind of work that was getting done out of India and

the kind of quality levels and the kind of folks working on their projects and decided that by 1997. They decided that they should come. Amin and start their own subsidiary in India. So this is pretty interesting. Right? So IIT is considered not as core as business processes. Yeah, so they were happy. Outsourcing it2 Indian service providers, but they decided to set up the captive to primarily do their business processes work.

So we're their own, you know, company's data would land here and people will be working on on that. Yep. So they started off. BPO routine kind of stuff like, you know, transaction processing, and Ledger's and accounting, and things like that. And and then they decided that what else can we do to Europe? If you're happy doing all the stuff and and they wanted to figure out what else they could do. And in 1998, they decided to start their analytics division, which was essentially - print

decision-making. Yep, and They figured out that maybe we could try you're doing that and India in a small way. So so this required a lot of quantitative skills and stuff like that. So like, you know, we saw earlier. So where do you go for statistics? It is is I and they apparently event first wire side LED. That is I Calcutta and I've got a few folks from there. They went to Delhi School of Economics. Got a few folks from there. Yes, and you know then, I think they did something pretty

interesting. So, they asked the the sales office of couple of products that we're used to do these, you know, statistical calculations SAS is one of them and SPS was so SPSS. Is another penis. Yep, the awesome. So, where do you? Yeah, where do you sell sell? Sell these where you sell your software, which colleges universities by it? Okay, so Steve is supposed to, you know, got a reply that I am so my, you know, some of our packages.

So they get to the IMF. They figure out the the fpm star king and on these packages. And and so the Requiem from the MS into their analytics centers. So that was the Genesis of analytics in Jake is so it stands for GE Capital International services in 1998. So they were the first captive to do analytics work in the in India. So they were doing some cool work for all.

They do companies GE. See what Finance you body, g capital D commercial Finance, predictive risk modeling, supply-demand intelligence and whatnot. So yeah, some cool stuff. It would have been probably during your time at IMB that like they started like these analytics. Firms started hiring from their MJ's. Like Jake is yes. First for the am sending for pcbs and guessing.

Right, so, you know, so it was the there was so much of a demand for people who knew SPSS and SAS is that, you know, they were in, you know, people were, you know, you know, okay, even if you put work, part-time. Okay, does it really not getting folks who knew some of the methods, as well as the tools that point and time. So yeah, that was the time when it all started with the Jake is so this against another interesting thing is that this was a time when when the word

kpo came into play. Yes. This is actually a report by eval you serve so which kind of combined the analytics and and some of the secondary market research and in general, you know secondary research that you do to put up slides and reports and things. Like that. Or that God bundled into one larger segment called kpo? I mean, people understood BPO. Okay, po became a an easy thing with specially for investors and

and finds to understand. Yeah. So the largest segment was obviously the secondary research, secondary research, that was getting done. And the second largest segment was analytics, but it was the

fastest growing and it was also probably the most profitable of the segments. Okay. So after this is, so the so who came in After Jake is so after Jake is severe. You know, they were three typical threads that were happening. Okay. So one was that with Jake is in the mid-2000s was divested Shoji divested. Jake is in the think it was about 2005. Yeah, I became genpact and private Equity bought bought them over. Yep. So at this point in time the IT service providers felt that

okay. We have We moved into BPO and now let's move into something, which is, you know, which is higher margin than vp0, which is unlit exert versus. Yeah, so, because they saw that, you know, that Jake is which was a captive and and so that probably, it's not a score as what it was and some of the analytics stuff, probably could be outsourced. Yes. So the, the, the IT services guys gotten and the jealous and

the Genesis of the team. If you look at it in all the IT service providers, they're all folks who are moving out of Jake is Jetpack. Yeah, so they were the guys were Staffing the, the these these IT services companies. They were also, you know, a few startups in the early 2000s. One was a company based out of Delhi called Market RX yet. So, which was essentially working into marketing analytics, and little bit of I think healthcare Life Sciences

are not mistaken. They got picked up by cognizant. Yeah, and the other one was a was a bankroll based company called Market X which was smaller and they were again into marketing analytics. So they were based out of been drawn ogre. And they got picked up by. Yeah, nwsl in the W. WN s? Yeah, which yeah, excellent. WLS was, you know, merged. So it's pretty interesting because I was living in in Grenada at that time. And so Evenings. I used to take a jog. I mean, it's traffic wasn't bad

at all. So I would take a jog, the evenings and then drop by at, you know, at, you know, a beer place which had a, which had Iyengar Bakery also, so the guy used to give me the cuffs and so used to be, you know, having my dear and my puff and used to be some of these guys from Market, excuse to land up there at these to be discussing and things like that. So I don't get one. Meaning, when, you know, I just used to listen and that's it.

So I just used to, you know, log off, but I think they were making some some, you know, pretty ridiculous statements about using cluster analysis to solve something. I just couldn't, you know, poured myself. So I sweated told them that both don't use cluster for this. Use discriminant analysis. So this is going to, you know, so they were like, I mean, who's this bugger with a beer bottle coming and telling us what kind of should do? Mendel video job. So the dim did they were very

curious to know. You know, how do I do all these things? And you know was I working for tickets or something and they were first a little bit paranoid about this. I told them that don't know who I am when, you know, it guy working for enforces and stuff like that. And then they said, okay, I add this guy's a harmless guy and all that stuff, but they were very intrigued about how I knew about all these things. Okay, so I had to tell them then and then you know how things go

and India, right? So there's like one guy said, Sir, I will come every evening here. Please. Let me know by that I'm doing the right thing. So it was pretty hilarious. So anyways, I think those were heady times. Yep. So the I think I'd say that word time. I think I had applied for a job to marketing's at some point in time. And then like I did the st. Near test which was full of

marketing. Jargon. And so I get I called up the HR inside like a naughty things forward because this reminds me. A of the, of the things that that, you know, the physics guys do, right. So, they talk physics to the math, guys. I think it's something that, that, that happens analytics. You talk domain to the guys who, you know, that's not understand the domain. And then you talk stats to the

guys who understand the debate. So actually what I found is that it at least in my career over the last 10 years. What I found is that like it's easier to talk. I mean while if you want to sound impressive or to do some kind of suit sales then like it might make sense to talk the other thing, but I think I'm This is what I found in the last

10 years. Is that like you just talk to this language to talk Tech to The Tech Guy in business to the business day and so on. But but yeah, I guess different people have their own strategies so its own right, right. Oh, but by the way, so this is one. More startup has been. It still continues fractal analytics. So I think they started off as analytics partner for HDFC Bank. Okay, and they still are a dozen

analytics company. So they kind of, you know, stood you know with the Since they were also a couple of similar companies, one was people research, which I think got picked up by ICICI once or something. And I think there's another one which will Casilla, which was down yellow. They were a few of the rules are being. So just to say that they were you know, annalistic services companies focused on the

domestic Market as well. So, yep and like fractal, I guess the other big one in that segment is music man, which yes, which again continues are too. Right, right? 2004-5. They started and mu Sigma was the worst was the, you know, it's an interesting, you know, case study for me, because they were the guys who actually scaled up big time yet. Right. So you don't want keeps hearing about how the Indian IT services provider, scaled up in the late 90s and early 2000s.

So I think you Sigma did that in the analytic space. So they are a very formalized training in there. You know, they called it. I think the new Sigma University or music back. To me. And then they would be, don't get these fritters and of both from their distant schools and then convert them into this,

unlit explore festivals. So in in you know, some of the notables and in the financial services domain, referral T. So sometime in the late 2000s, doing marketing analytics, customer acquisition lifecycle management cross-sell or upsell and things like that, then you had gold. When Goldman was known for its fraud analytics and those kinds of, you know, a lot takes of domains. Yep, then HSBC, again a lot of marketing analytics, our computer, you know, Hardware makers, HP and Dell for the

sales and I'll take so casting. Yep. Then you had retailers like Target that we're doing things from merchandising forecasting, inventory management, system management, and of course at the I think companies like L Brands, I think would be pretty popular on the campus, doing marketing analytics and among their brands is, you know, the famous Victoria Secret. So, so all of them doing some interesting analytics here, so that's the captors.

And then we have Indian companies also getting big on analytics. But but hul, I mean, is, is an outlier here, because even in the laity, 80s and 90s. Yeah, I doing. What was what they called as Market insights. Okay. It was nothing but pretty Advanced, you know, quantitative marketing research. So they had a team from the from the 90s but through a lot faster and bigger in the 2000s and PNG created in in the analytics. Eoe Singapore. So quite a few folks. From India, moved to PNG

Singapore to be about analytics. Co e 3F C among the you know prior Bank started off with analytics division or to incur add analytics and marketing analytics. They were pretty, you know, pretty big gone undertakes in the 2000's. So 2001. I remember that in the Indian campuses, the be food purposes. There was, I am be Capital One for the US operations recruited. Use analytics operations, recruited a few folks.

And it was a big thing because, you know, at that, at that time, one of the popular case studies was that the Capital One could decide within a minute. What whether to give, you know, the prospect a credit card or not. Yep, and if yes, what was the credit limit for that for that Prospect? Yep, so it was good to see, you know, some folks from from my MBE travel to do is to work for the Capital One. And this interesting, you know, the interesting connection there.

So one of the guys who got picked up to work in Capital One came back, worked in Jen, back in the symphony genpact and the and then in 2010, God of God, of War has started a training

company called zigzoo. Okay, so this was probably the first company in India to focus on training folks on Analytics. Okay, so I think their first course, was was something on on doing analytics with SAS. So they realize that, you know, we have to teach folks the concepts of the methods of analytics and also focus on the tools and tools as I say as because that was probably the market leader, at that time. Yep. Yep. So, this was a 2010 and 2008-9 was not a great year for Indian

it right based. No? See. Action, so this is the, you know, the software Engineers with maybe up to 45 years experience thinking that really continue the ID path or whether the a to do something else. So these kinds of programs gave them the to move from ID into analytics and that is against the propelled. A lot of people into the lake

mid-career. It people started doing these courses to the hope of shifting into and the technique is obviously and Sort of at some level to your paid better than software, engineering X10. Yes. I think. I mean, I remember, you know, an analysis where for the company at least. So this would have been say mid 2000s or something that time frame. I think it was a pretty high, remember the numbers because it's easy to remember or not

because you have anything else. So BP over something like you is the 20K per annum. Okay? Was the Of Revenue per employee. And IIT was about 40K, per annum and analytic to 60k per annum. Okay, so the a bit of for, for analytics, which is, you know, upwards of 30% or something. So it was a, you know, it was definitely, you know, it works both ways. So since the companies were getting a, you know, a higher Revenue per capita, so they could also offer to pay you slightly more than I guess.

The Other two streams. Yep. And even now I find Direct like I mean like cover as well as in when I recruit for analytics. I find that like you find mid-career software Engineers would have done a course in analytics looking to jump into one because it's the same 40K 260k kind of jump, whatever you translate that to it did sell

these now and things like that. I guess. Let's change that's a little bit. Now. I just want to understand from you like what analytics for business professionals are like In India, like a in terms of like, dude. I don't know how much work you have done in terms of like, comparing analytics people in India to elsewhere into on or if you could like, how were like, how do you characterize the analytics professionals? Like, how do they work? And like, is that how is that different from?

That's a, like, software engineering or their counterparts abroad and so on. See, so this is based on my interactions with folks who've been working in analytics for the past 20 years. It's at least. Yep. Okay. So the first, you know, thing that, that that strikes me with these guys is that they are comfortable with the domain.

I mean, it could be that, you know, they are in cpg or FM CTS-V call it. If they would be comfortable in that industry and they would be comfortable with The methods, the, you know, the market research methods or the operations management methods, you are statistical methods and they would be comfortable using tools. Yep, you know, essay as well. They want to our and stuff like that, right? So they are at ease.

Yep. The the other one that I've observed with them is that tell this probably might be a difference between the folks who are just coming. Into the profession. And folks of in around, is that these guys are very parsimonious in terms of the independent variables. Okay. So they do some kind of an, you know, some heuristics intuition and then they figure out that okay, you know, I know that I'm collecting, you know, these these 70 or variables.

Well, I think these 15 are the ones that need to go into my model. Okay? Okay, because I know that the You know how these 15 can at? He's directionally impact the dependent variable. And so, okay. This is what it's going to be. I don't want to crowd my model with the rest of the the 70 plus. Okay, so maybe this is changing when you use machine learning and stuff like that, but I'm talking about a traditional statistical methods.

Okay, so these folks use analytics even when they need not use, Latex or pathway where there is no expectation for them. Use analytics. So I know folks in management consulting who do a lot of number crunching, but this smart enough not to not to put these stuff in a deliverable slide, but they present this in nice pictorial form or in two by twos.

Okay, so I think there are so, so I think that for some folks, you know, they were not be analytics folks, but they are doing Analytics and it's probably a state of mind a frame of mind so which I find pretty interesting. And then finally, I think there are a lot of folks who are who are related to the previous point. Is that closet and latex professionals? Okay, so they are not working analytics, departments. So they are working in sales marketing. They working is, as leadership guys.

They're working as a supply chain. But I caught there on the attic space. Thank you for listening to data shatter. If you like this show, please leave a comment, share and subscribe to the podcast. You can find this podcast on Apple podcasts Spotify or wherever else. Go to get your podcasts once again, the skirt, exciting of, thank you.