Border Crisis! All the BEST Immigration Cartoons!

Hi, I'm Daryl Cagle, and this is the CagleCast, where we're all about political cartoons. And today our topic is the border crisis. We'll look at Biden, Trump, desperate refugees, children in cages, and so much more. It's a festival of human cartoon misery. And we have four favorite editorial cartoons joining us today. Rob Rogers has won a ton of awards. Hey, Rob.

Good to see everybody.

Good to see you, Rob. Good to see you, Rob.

Hey, Rob.

Rob has won a ton of awards and has worked for the Pittsburgh Post Gazette for decades before he was fired for criticizing President Trump by those bastards. And Rob is a shining star in our profession and I'm a big fan. Welcome, Rob.

Thank you, Daryl. Appreciate it.

Daryl, can you say bastards?

I'm gonna say bastards.

Okay. . Daryl Cagle: I think this cartoon is great. Wonderful cartoon. Yeah, that's a great

cartoon. Thanks. Yeah. I, this was one of the cartoons that was done during my most tumultuous week at the paper, because this was the week where they were about to kill six in a row after killing like 13 earlier in the, in the year. And so this was a day when I was trying to communicate with my publisher and my editor and try to find out why they were, boxing me out. They weren't speaking to me or anything.

Well, having them kill it and having it be widely syndicated was probably an embarrassment they didn't like.

Yeah, that's right.

That's a, that's a great cartoon. I like the fact that you know, you don't even have to Say who Trump is just by your silhouette, you're able to tell who that is, you know, he's got the long tie and the hair and the puckered mouth

I'm not the first cartoonist to use the, sort of immigrant crossing sign, uh, California sign, but I know this was Trump's policy of separating children at the border. It had never been done before. Yeah. and I'm sure many of you were as outraged as I was about the whole policy and it just felt like an, an easy way of, you know, showing that, you know, that, that sort of irony of, of the caution sign.

moving on to Gary McCoy, Gary McCoy has won a ton of awards including two silver Reubens from the National Cartoonist Society for magazine and greeting card cartoons. He's also a prolific magazine cartoonist. He draws two syndicated newspaper comic strips, the duplex and the flying McCoys, which is a crazy amount of work and it's great to have you back Gary. Thanks

Daryl and good to see you guys.

Gary.

Good to see you.

Gary is our most

That's hilarious, Gary, with him coming through his ear like that and holding it in.

Oh, thanks.

Next we have Rick McKee, who was the cartoonist for decades for the Augusta Chronicle in Georgia. Rick draws the comic Pluggers, and we've syndicated Rick for 20 years, and Rick is one of our podcast favorite guests. Welcome back, Rick.

I love that, Rick.

I appreciate it. Yeah, I did this, uh, probably back around the time Biden got elected and enacted his, unaccompanied children Policies that just encouraged all these kids to flood the border

Oh, and it's also great because he likes ice cream. Did you see him the other day?

Yeah, yeah

licking the ice cream while talking about israeli policy

Okay, this is one of my cartoons, uh kids looking over the wall and Looks very tasty over there. Here's Adam Ziglis. Adam draws for the Buffalo News in New York. Adam has won a Pulitzer Prize and a ton of other prizes. Welcome back, Adam.

It's great to be here. It's good to see everybody.

Hey. That's great, too.

Yeah, that's a great, that's a great image.

I like when I can get away with having absolutely no words in a cartoon, which is rare, these days, and with this image, like Rob was pointing out, with the policy that Trump had separating children at the border, I feel like I had to go for something that had like an emotional appeal because You know, as a father of little kids, capturing those faces, and tying it in with our symbol of immigration was, was like kind of the easiest way I could get the message across.

This is great. And your caricature of her face is funny.

Yeah, it's a nice drawing.

Okay, This is Rivers, uh, has the Statue of Liberty with give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses. Oy vey. I'm just, impressed when other people draw crazy crowd scenes.

Yeah, that's very clever. I hate drawing crowds. I try to avoid it whenever possible, but, um, that's great.

You know, I, I get emails from people suggesting cartoon ideas and invariably it involves a crowd scene. You know, there's this one army coming in from the right, another army coming in from the left, the sky is filled with helicopters. and then there's these politicians in there. There's this one, this one, this one, this one. everybody seems to have an idea like that with no, no sense of how much work they're suggesting.

That's good.

This, I'm doing some Statue of Liberty cartoons here. This one is from Christo Komarnitsky in Bulgaria. And, uh, what's fun about this is that's Trump's hair in the torch. And it, and it takes a minute to kind of realize that. and I think that's wonderful.

What's nice is it also has like, it looks like the torch is just limp. It's, you know, it's, it's got that double kind of entendre to it, anytime you can have that juxtaposition of two images, like without saying, writing a word, I think is a, is a win from a cartoon standpoint.

Very European. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Here's one of yours, Adam. Make America freight again and send her back to France. tons of, uh, Statue of Liberty on this. And I know editorial cartoonists catch a lot of grief for drawing so much Statue of Liberty, but

Look at that lazy crowd though. That's a lazy crowd. This is why I don't choose concept of crowds because of my deadline. I mean, if we had double the time to execute, I would sit there and turn the music on and draw the crowd. But

you wouldn't do it just like this and then take a nap for an hour. Here's another one of yours, Adam. you've got the Trump administration saying, it should say, give me your tired and your poor who can stand on their own two feet.

Could have had the foot even bigger.

Did you, did you say that's an actual quote? It is, yeah. I don't ever put quotes in a cartoon unless it's an actual quote from someone in an administration or a public figure.

That's a rule you have? Because one of the great, joys of being an editorial cartoonist is being able to put words into anybody's mouth that you choose.

True. and, um, and usually I'm doing that every day, but when, when I can't use actual spoken words

Yeah, it's more effective.

It's, yeah, it stings a little bit more.

Yeah, I agree. I just didn't know that's a thing.

A little asterisk in there that says actual quote.

I thought about that. It's not a bad way to make sure that people don't pass that detail over.

So Gary, this one made me laugh. You've got Biden and the kids under their, uh, shiny metal blankets and Biden says, how long do they have to cook before they're ready to vote? That's hilarious. Thanks.

That is hilarious. It looked like, you know, well, those Mylar aluminum things look like big. baked potatoes, so

Do you guys remember those blankets when we were in scouts? We used to get them and then they were supposedly these like space blankets that really work, but I guess they

do. I don't know They see yeah, they still sell them. I think for preppers or whatever online, right?

Here's one from our anonymous cartoonist Rivers with Joe Biden, greeting people, breaking through the wall, saying, welcome to America, illegal immigrants. Remember to vote Democrat and remember we don't believe in voter ID. So no worries. he never said that. Is that Duo Shade?

the crosshatching? Yeah. Think

I feel like,

yeah. Remember Duo Shade? Yeah. Yeah. My first like two years drawing. I had some and then it like went out of stock. I think two people bought the rest of

it. , Gary McCoy: I, I just found a bottle of the activating fluid in my studio the other day.

That stuff stinks. Um, Well, I mean, you, you can get the same effect on Pho in Photoshop, right? Uh, so I don't know. He may be doing it

that way. Yeah, quite a few cartoonists do it in Photoshop. My son does that on his comic books, I found a couple of bottles of solution in my garage the other day, and they had completely evaporated. They were nothing but dust at the bottom.

Crystallized, yeah. That's nasty stuff. Probably all going to get cancer from that.

Meth labs will do that to your fluid when you're storing it long term.

That's a beautiful illustration. He's a great illustrator.

Yeah.

Okay. And, here you got Dick Wright and, the front door to the White House and the butler says, the president asks you all to stop your howling as it is nap time. And the dogs are all outside howling border, border, border, which obviously Biden doesn't hear because he's asleep.

That's great.

classic feel, classic style. Dick crosshatching are real nice.

I have noticed how both editors and readers like any cartoon that has a dog in it.

What about a cat? Note to

self. Yeah, they like, they like cats. Rick, this is yours. You've got, Biden with the come in. But no, he's fixed it to don't come in. We're not open and that doesn't look too effective.

Yeah, I believe I do that. Uh, there was like a time that it seems to have passed when, Biden and Kamala Harris were trying to go out there and. Say that they were actually not encouraging, illegal immigration. So I think that was probably in response to that.

Did he borrow Trump's Sharpie there? Is that what that is?

Uh, I'm going to say yes. i

should say that the reason I read and describe all of these is that podcast also goes out to the audio platforms where people aren't looking at images. And actually the majority of people that Watch video podcasts. They turned it on video and then they lay it down and they fall asleep without looking at it

They're missing Rick's Southwest landscapes, which I love. Yeah.

Oh, thanks.

So here we've got John Darkow and Biden at the open border with a speed bump and he says I've decided to finish the southern border Well, he's finished it with a speed bump because it's very easy to get across

think this is one of those, issues that a lot of people across the political spectrum agree on, which is we've got a problem here. I mean, Darkow is no conservative.

Well, as we get a little farther in, I think the difference between liberals and conservatives is that you see cartoons that are, sympathetic to the plight of the migrants from the liberals and you never see that from the conservatives I can I can give you that reason when you're ready for it. Daryl. All right. Give us the reason

it's not that we're not Compassionate or empathetic to these people but we have laws we're a nation of laws and Just because someone wants a better life That's not an excuse to get to violate our federal laws and come across our southern border. And probably 80 percent of those people would love to walk across our border and get the same benefits and perks and everything else that the people coming across from South America and Central America do.

Gary, when you look at all those thousands or millions of people crossing the border, and the vast majority of them are just people seeking a better future, and they're leaving a desperate situation, and they're struggling, and they're being abused and dying on the way. doesn't your compassion for those people as people motivate you to draw a single cartoon about that?

Well, I've got, my, good friends and liberal counterparts doing that. my point is to represent the voice of Conservative people feel that our laws should be respected.

Well, your role is to draw whatever is most compelling to you about your feelings at the moment. And it's just interesting to me that those feelings at the moment never rise to the level of your drawing a single cartoon that motivates all these other cartoonists.

If I can interrupt here. I would just say, and since you got my cartoon on the screen, I think pointing out the fact that the open borders policies in this particular cartoon was about 2019 when three people died in the Rio Grande River because they were lured here, I think because of liberal policies, I think that is compassion to say, Hey, wait a minute, you know, you're, you're causing these people harm and suffering. So there's, it's sort of, there's sort of two sides to the coin.

That's a great point that Rick's making, because why not represent the view that illegal immigration is killing people? What about the fentanyl deaths? It's causing in our country. It doesn't do any good just to say, yeah, I have a soft heart and I feel for these people. I feel for them so much that I don't want them subjected to any more of these deaths, rapes, drownings, kids who are separated at the border. We don't know if the people they're being separated from or even their family members.

From what Gary's saying, it sounds like he's acknowledging a lot of that human suffering. It just, you don't see it in his work. I think there is a lot of common ground. It's just, everything is so politicized these days that, for instance, the separation of children at the border, conservative cartoonists or commentators don't want to criticize their conservative leaders, so they won't point that out, even though they may feel this is terrible for kids. it should just be a human issue.

So here's a good example of this from Rob. You've got the astronaut on the moon. 1969, one small step for man. And then in 2019, you've got the ice guy with the kids in a cage. And there's one giant leap backwards for mankind.

But correct me if I'm wrong, those cages were left over from the Obama administration, weren't they? Well,

they were not used for children, no. There were certain, cages that were, set up as barriers, but they weren't used for children. This is different. but in the case of this cartoon, I mean, this was the 50th anniversary of the, the moon landing. And it just seemed like an appropriate time because this was happening at the same time to kind of look at, how far we've come and how far we haven't come, in terms of, living as humans on the planet.

agree with some of that, Rob. I don't think the numbers are actually inflated. When you, if you have one child who's being brought in with a sex trafficker, how do you differentiate the ones who are with, parents, you know, I mean, these kids are being brought over with a phone number and call this person is the whole system. Look, we're all ideological. I mean, that's what, you know, is great. I mean, I'm often curious as to find out.

Well, I think that's the clearest difference is when you see this, you see it as unequal under the law, unequal enforcement of the law, unfair for them to break the law, and others see it as what a human tragedy on a personal level.

So, okay.

And don't get me wrong. I think, I think. I think that immigration is a serious problem and, and the sheer numbers are unsustainable. And I think we need to reform our immigration policy. And that's first and foremost. And I blame Obama for not doing it when he had the Democrats in Congress on his side, and I blame Biden for wasting his first two years, not addressing it. I think there are definitely plenty of people to blame, but it's about our policy. And it shouldn't be about our humanity.

I do think that there has been a shift. That a lot of liberals, and Democrats view it much more as a problem these days than they used to, and I think It's just it's an effect of of time and seeing what's going on at the border. And

I think it's also Abbott and DeSantis shipping those people to those cities up north.

so Rob, Here's another one from you. You've got the U.S.A. Law enforcement agent standing at the border, holding back a sea of kids. And he says, what makes you think we'll feed, clothe, and shelter you during this humanitarian crisis? Have you seen how we treat our poor and inner city kids?

Yes. See, so this was done during, this is 2014, so it was done during the Obama administration. And there were already a lot of kids coming to the border then. this is what I was talking about in terms of government. It's my view that government , should be helping these people, not, putting them to the side or, or putting them in cages or, otherwise making life harder for them.

I think it boils down to liberals see conservatives as heartless and conservatives see liberals as b leeding hearts.

Yeah. I think it's very similar to the homeless problem Where if you've got a homeless person, you just go up and hand them a wad of cash. You're not helping them You're enabling them. And I think in this case, if you've got cities that are handing out prepaid debit cards, and, we're immediately taking these people and, giving them all, the rights that US citizens have, why wouldn't they flee here? I mean, it doesn't make any sense. It's enabling. And it's destructive to them.

Yeah, but most immigrants want to work and and one of the problems is they have trouble getting work visas And I think that that's part of the immigration policy problem We haven't solved it and congress has been sitting on their hands for decades

I know that most of them want to work but the talking point became That not most of them want to work that most of them want asylum Okay, show up at the border and claim you want asylum and they'll let you in and I saw a clip where MSNBC reporter went to those camps that they set up Looking for people seeking asylum because that was the thing And he walked around it was all these single young men going. No, we just want to come there and get a job

Here's one from Rivers. You got the house, the American dream before Biden and the house all overrun with immigrants saying American dream after Biden.

Are those immigrants or are those homeless? This seems like he's trying to say it's it's a homeless problem now.

Well, I can tell you I looked up these cartoons by keyword immigration Oh, well, then it must be Rivers chose keyword immigration I threw in a batch of cartoons from Angel Boligan probably the most prominent cartoonist in Mexico. He draws for the El Universal newspaper and he's been with us for 25 years And I thought that it was interesting to see the perspective from Mexico, which, is entirely on the side of, sympathy for the migrants and, the harsh, heartless United States.

He's just such a fantastic artist though. I mean,

yeah,

yeah, he really is. I'm a huge, huge fan of his work.

Yeah.

Here's Uncle Sam sweeping the migrants out with a wall broom. I like

the way he made the stripes disappear there.

And he doesn't choose to color certain things. There's no need.

Masterful. Really.

This is the wall made of skulls. Here's Trump walking along the wall, stepping on the immigrants to make them fall off. and I love it that you can draw Trump with just that little wisp of hair and you don't need anything else to define him. Here's a poor angelic, would-be migrant being burned at the wall. Here's Uncle Sam, using the wall to saw Mexico away from, the rest of the continent.

It's from, you know, it's from the perspective of the migrant always. Mm hmm.

Because they're not, they don't want them in their country. I mean, Mexico obviously doesn't want because they

feel sad for these people.

They feel sad for them, yes. As I feel sad for them, yes. But

You think he's motivated to draw this cartoon because he doesn't want this person in

his country? I'm not impugning Angel's motives. He's, he's amazing. I loved his show in Sant Just. He's a great guy. But, I'm saying, in general, you think they want the, the crime problem, the fentanyl problem, everything? They got. a ton of problems already. The drug cartels run the country, but

you don't see any of that in Angels cartoons or in the South American cartoons. What you see is this,

I of, of course, of course, Daryl, you think they're gonna, I mean, okay. I'm not gonna impugn their motives. I'm talking about the people in general, the countries, the, the president of Mexico.

You don't think that the cartoonists reflect the views of the, readership.

Daryl, their economies can't handle the, the numbers of illegal immigrants.

Yeah, but that's not what these people are telling you that they care about.

Okay, I, well then, okay, I'm telling you I care about them, so then I should be given a, you know, pat on the back for being a compassionate person. I do care about them. In fact, I care about them so much. With a kick me sign being left.

We did a cartoonist trip to Mexico City where, Gary was on a panel with some, Mexican pundits, arguing the bad guys side on, on immigration. And, uh, that was just

He was not arguing the bad guys side. All right. All right. Well, but I thought that was just fascinating because, Gary did a good job,

Gary did. And, and Gary kept his composure and made his arguments and the guys he was arguing against were just so filled with passion that they were just, ranting and, losing their composure.

That's true.

Mike Keefe was there, too. He was on the panel.

Yeah, but you were the interesting one on the panel, Gary. I gotta say.

Oh, thanks. Thanks.

Gary came well prepared.

Gary stirred things up and really got them to lose their composure.

He really did.

So, this one's from Chris Wyant, and you've got the wall with a, Warner Brothers style hole in it from the character that bashed through is Trump, and it says, Immigration Bill. I think we found a new breach in our border security.

This looks like a recent one. Is this, is this a recent cartoon?

It's another silhouette that, you know, like Rob did earlier, just that. Yeah, yeah.

I like the part between the elbow and the arm, you know, the arm is still floating there. Just hanging there.

I love that drawing. I'm not, I'm not sure what the, uh,

Also Trump has those kissy fishy lips and that is quite a fishy kissy lip. Um, he's almost sticking out his tongue. Yeah, so here's another one of Gary's and you've got Uncle Sam shooting the migrant out of the cannon back over the wall. It's the best way to deport violent, illegal immigrants.

That's great, Gary.

And, we have no sympathy for that guy because he's violent and, illegal. Here we've got Dave Wamond, and he's doing kind of a traditional cartoonist fruitcake cartoon, with them building the border wall out of fruitcakes. We're building an indestructible wall as a bonus. We finally found a use for fruitcakes. This was a Christmas cartoon.

You know, you're always looking for a good Christmas metaphor that hasn't been done before, and, uh, that's That's a fun one there to use in fruitcakes. Yeah,

you don't really think of the border and Christmas going together there.

Well, you know when it's Christmas time and the editors don't want to print anything but a Christmas cartoon, what the heck are you going to do?

Yeah, that's great, that's a great, great I'm going to steal that one. I

have seen plenty of, like, Santa Claus being, abducted or captured by ICE for coming into the country illegally and that kind of thing, but the fruitcakes I've never seen.

Well, Dave's a funny guy.

this is when I did so back in Trump time when he was getting all that grief and giving all the grief to Mexico I tell you every time I draw that Mexican eagle, I get some grief because it offends people but I love that eagle

Why does it offend people?

Because they're very Mexican nationalistic and it is disrespectful to their nation.

Messing with the flag and their symbol.

That's a lovely illustration there. Oh, I love that. I love that cactus and the Mexican flag. It's great. Well, and this tie coming swooping down like that. It's got a lot of movement to it.

I like that snake too. Yeah. Two great characters and they can interact with each other on the flag. And, that's just all great fun. The cactus that he's on is fun. Uh.

It's very, it's a lovely drawing.

Oh, well, thank you. So Rob, here's one of yours, the only caravan threatening America, and you've got the migrant caravan, but it's not migrants it's all the hateful MAGA people including the Ku Klux Klan and the Nazis and this is funny.

You know, it always, puzzled me when Trump would rant on on about, you know, oh, these, these are terrible people that are coming. They're murderers. They're, you know, meanwhile, the people that he associated with are the people that he, championed were, were a very ugly lot. I don't know how close this was to Charlottesville, but. but I think it was probably near, that time. and of course this was when Brett Kavanaugh was, was also going through his, um, his hearings.

I've got beers for Brett back there.

This is one thing that's frustrating for us. We, we track how often cartoons are reprinted and, If there's ever an appearance of a swastika or a Ku Klux Klan hood, they just don't get reprinted. And, you know, when you actually have Nazis like in Charlottesville and Ku Klux Klan lining up to support Trump and you want to put that in a cartoon. It's very frustrating for the cartoonist to just not get the cartoon printed.

Well, not only that, nowadays, I don't know about other social media, but like Facebook, if you were to post that, just the little, uh, KKK hat, and I don't know about the swastika, but that would get you thrown in Facebook jail for posting that, even though your point is. Yeah. Is the opposite their little algorithms and their little bots that go around and find those images would you know, it doesn't matter

I think someone complains and they don't even look at it. They just got a complaint and they take it down

Huh could be

interesting. I've had cartoons taken down for the similar reasons like After the insurrection like having a noose in the image hang Mike Pence, and the cartoon was removed from Facebook and they didn't bring it back. yeah, it most likely is a complaint, or from a hashtag on Instagram, sometimes they'll remove a cartoon.

I've got four Facebook pages, and whenever I have, something removed from a Facebook page, or they freeze it and I can't update it anymore, it's always only one out of the four pages that has the same content.

They need to, they need to fix that. I mean, if we're going to have super smart AI that's going to. take over the world. They need to at least get that right.

Yeah.

Okay, this one's from Joe Heller. You've got the coyote and his truck. He's squeezing all the immigrants into the truck and he says, I'll get you across the border, Republican governors will move you on from there. which is true. It's not a joke. It's

true. it is ... Rick McKee: but it has also sharpened this debate to the point where maybe something will happen.

Well, it's, it cuts both ways because being in Buffalo, we have a huge, refugee immigrant population that's actually lifted the city. It's added to the population growth for the first time in decades. We have this Burmese population. We have Burmese restaurants. And so even some conservatives in Buffalo will acknowledge that we need, we need this to, to grow. But then they will focus on if one crime is committed.

Are you getting bus loads from Texas?

No, they come from, we're getting, they're shipping from New York City immigrants that, they can't handle them. The governor is sending refugees and immigrants to Buffalo. Which we want them though. Our democratic leaders want them. But they have been, you know, they need to be screened, um, and placed properly. It's not, it's just not like a, bring them all in! Like there's, policy has to be set in place and it's being debated.

See, and I think you

make an interesting point. You say they have to be screened and they have to be all this, and that's not what's happening in places like, these border states. I just saw a story yesterday that said Eric Adams is moving to effectively end, New York City as a sanctuary city status.

Would that just be to placate Governor Abbott and, uh,

No, I think it's

Not a sanctuary, you wouldn't send the buses there?

No, no, no. I think it's, I think it's because they're having real issues with what's going on with the people that are coming there and, they can't afford it for one thing. anyway, I, I just saw this story yesterday. Rob, this cartoon is cute. You got, Disney coming off the plane in Martha's Vineyard. I remember when they sent the plane load to Martha's Vineyard and, Mickey says Governor DeSantis sent us, and it's just funny to see the Disney characters getting off the plane.

Yeah, that's a great Mickey.

Oh, thank you. I didn't, I didn't create Mickey.

But I love the old school Mickey.

Yeah, I like the old school Mickey. I always draw him the old school, even, even before the, Steamboat Willie thing went out of, copyright. Now you can just do it. Yeah. But, but I think, um, what, what was

That's not a Steamboat Willie.

No, it's not. It's not. It's sort of the in between, in between Steamboat and the, uh, and the, and the final version. Uh, probably like the second or third one. I think what was funny to me about this was just his feud with Disney seemed so preposterous and so, Anti conservative, I mean, he's a business guy, you know He's a florida governor in a conservative state and they should be pro business, but he's going after these guys And it's just ridiculous. And so

I mean i'm in i'm in Florida. I have to agree. It's dumb I mean, why would you go after the biggest? Employer the biggest, you know economic draw in Florida Why would you do that? If you're a conservative

anyway. So when, when they, when he started shipping people to Martha's vineyard, I sort of thought, you know, I'll take it one step further and he's going to ship Disney. So that was

So here's another one of yours, Rob, he's holding a sign that says stop the great replacement. And the native American says too late.

That's exactly how I imagined you would talk. Great Indian voice. That's good.

Meet Injun, yeah. It's like the Indian from the Peter Pan cartoon. That's

right. We did get a few of them on this theory. Here's John Darkow with the Native Americans talking about the Pilgrims. He says, he asked me if I've heard anything about Great Replacement Theory. It makes a good point.

No, it's true. I mean, I think, I think it's the same thing with immigration, you know, when people talk about immigration and you have to remind them, well, you know, at one point, all of our families immigrated here, some in some form, unless we are Native American and we're, you know, most of us are not so,

and another beautiful drawing.

Oh, what a beautiful drawing. This is Rick. Oh, thank you. So here you've got the, Independence Day spaceship shooting down at the White House. And in the White House, they say, Sir, we're under attack by aliens. And, the president or someone else says, You know, we prefer the term undocumented non citizen.

Yeah, that one, that one was fun to draw. And, uh, you know, that's, reality. They've no longer allowed to say, illegal immigrants or illegal aliens. They have to use undocumented non citizens. So that was a case of using actual quotes. Like you were talking about earlier.

And I love the, the colors are great. It's got a great sense of space. And three dimensionality.

You're looking so much more conservative on this topic. Than on other topics.

believe it or not, I'm still conservative. I'm just not Trump conservative.

God bless you.

Adam, I put in a couple of, Stephen Miller cartoons because

Oh yeah, I remember this one.

I just thought this was hilarious. And I, you know, it, it is a border issue cartoon, but,

You've got asylum seekers in there. So it is immigration.

Most people who watch the podcast. Probably don't even know who's Stephen Miller is, but this was just so funny.

That is funny. That is hilarious. Miller White,

Miller White, ,,, , His White Nationalist advisor. loved drawing Steve Miller because he's got those. sunken eyes. He looks like a villain movie character, you know,

he really does. Yeah.

He does. And he's someone that should be ridiculed in political cartoons, but I just find that the readers know so few of these characters that it usually needs to be explained. And I appreciate it when you just go for it. You don't try to explain things. there's really very few, characters like this outside of just, half a dozen people that you can draw and people are going to know who it is, even when you nail the caricature and it says Miller on it.

right, right.

this is, this is one from Peter Kuper which has a very different character, but he captures the same kind of Gestapo look of Stephen Miller. And, I thought this was great too.

That is great. Kuper doesn't go beyond much of a, Climate change stuff these days. So that's fun to see.

Well, the reason for that is that he's a regular in Charlie Hebdo and they've got a environmental column and his job is to illustrate the column.

Ah, okay. Well, that makes sense.

And it runs, vertical, along the side of the column, the column on the left and the cartoon on the right or something like that.

Okay, well that makes sense.

I like how this is vertical, which is nice. And I like the vintage comic book, theme or concept. Matt Bors always had some good vintage comic book cartoons that I enjoyed.

The vertical ones work better on the Internet, on Instagram, and, we still have the editors leaving this landscape sized hole in the newspaper, and if you get a vertical one to them, they don't want to take the time or don't have the, ability to change the shape of the hole and the cartoons just don't get reprinted much in newspapers, which is what we measure. So it's very frustrating for us, I think, at a time when it would be nice that we could. Not suffer from that landscape.

No, I went through that, where I was drawing my cartoons more square, for Counterpoint which is a electronic thing. And I just realized, like you say, print's not going to touch it if it's, more vertical. electronic and online, they'll, they'll run it anyway. So I just lapsed back into doing it more horizontally.

I've always been more square with the Buffalo News and it's just the way his face has worked. sometimes the idea just lends itself to a vertical and you just have to work around it, reframe it, re crop it, um, Re edit it, but it'd be great to have flexibility. I see Ann Telnaes does like a vertical illustrated column sometimes with the posts, which is cool.

It would be nice to have only one publication that you're working for where you could talk to them and do different things. Yeah, yeah. This is a Venn diagram with good for the country crossing over into good for Trump and Trump is Walking out of that shared area where it's good for the country and for Trump.

I don't think he was ever inside that I think, I think the drawing is all wrong.

Well, I was told by several readers that the overlap for that Venn diagram should be a little smaller, but I mean, in fairness,

you got to fit an elephant into it,

there is some overlap there, but yeah, I mean, just this self serving that equate, you know, how, loyalty does not equal patriotism. this was in response to. The immigration bill that was going to possibly pass and Trump, who was not even elected, who's running, was basically telling the Republican party behind the scenes to kill it because it'll make him look bad if Biden gets a win. So this.

And it also looks like he's giving all the migrants MasterCards. Which they're doing in New York, right?

That was a layer that I did not intend that you picked up on there, Daryl.

So gentlemen, thank you for joining us today. Do you have anything more to say about the No,

I think I'm all talked out.

it was a great discussion and it was nice to see Daryl and Gary get at it a little bit.

Thanks for having us. Appreciate it.

No, it was fair. It was fair. You were kind.

kind is good. All right. very good. Good to see you guys. Hope you'll all come back sometime. Good to see you too. Remember to like and subscribe to the CagleCast wherever you're watching it, and join our mailing list at Cagle.com/Subscribe to never miss out on a new CagleCast and to catch all of the great cartoons that you should never be missing. And, gentlemen, thank you again. Thanks for having me. Good to see you I hope you'll do it with us again, Rob. All right,

thanks. That was fun. See you later.

Bye.