Welcome to Vancouver True Crime. My name is Mark. I am the host of the show and a very special guest narcissist Survivor he did a show on love-bombing and it's been a little while since we did a show. But here, we're back together again. Hey, Mark, thanks for having me back, I'm good, I'm good. I'm going to be talking about, maybe the atom each situation. Yeah, just how that ties into narcissism. And a lot of these cases like we talked about it, someone that
infant. Rates of community and cause they want the respectability. They want to be seen as a helper. A good guy, you know, the mile-long resume, the all the wonderful things they do, but then behind closed doors, they turn out to be in the future, you know, there's so many cases that across different organizations, right? And it's unfortunate because most organizations should have something in place, you know.
Specially, we're talking about this, Adam a so for listeners of I've been working on On a podcast for survivors, who are going through recovery? Who experience of use out of hands of a person. That's a personal trainer will call Madam H4. Now, you go to my Instagram page, you'll see some posts I made about them. From what I know now is that New Westminster police have charged them with 10 counts of sexual assault. His abuse seems have been ongoing since the early 2010 and
to present day. Wow. Yeah, it's a lot of victims. I talked to one lady, she believes that there is a possibility that the victims could be in the hundreds also to on the male side, a guy actually sent me a message yesterday and this is very important platforms about, you know, stopping Abused women, men and children. He made a made a point. He says, a lot of men were victimized from because they were just as vulnerable and then he would Power Trip. They make one mistake and then
he throw them out. But if they were a woman old to give them I want you to give them a chance as long as they hit something sexual favor from his as what they allege. Yeah. So, you know, it's shocking and it's terrible, how someone in a position of trust can abused up for about like the time I'm interviewing more people in anyone listening knows about the situation. Please contact me. I want to hear your testimony in and understand the experiences you've been through.
I want to say that recovery is a very important Anything and dear to my heart. I went through the Vancouver day talks clinic and low 2000 or early 2000s. When I used to binge drink do stupid things and it was affected my life and back to my relationships and it helped me very much. And so, when you're going through recovery, when you make that choice to take those steps to clean up the sobriety, you need a fighting chance.
So at that time when someone abusing you can could be very dangerous and they could Prevent you from wanting to get help, which condemns you into a dangerous situation, which its allege that this has happened. And absolutely. Yeah, wow. It was a personal trainer is all about health, he ingratiated himself, he develops tries to develop a personal relationship. There's a power Dynamic due to age due to his, maybe his financial background.
Yes, yes, yes, yes. And then the person who's getting help in rebuilding their lives right there. A ground, zero rebuilding everything. I mean, the first thing that jumps out at me honestly with this story is a couple things jump out, but who thinks it's a good idea to put male figures in charge of vulnerable. Female population. Yeah, you know, start with that, who thought that was a good idea?
You know. No, no offense to males anywhere, but when you're in recovery, when you are in such a vulnerable Horrible place. These guys are predators narcissus, Psychopaths, sociopaths they are predators. They prey on vulnerable people. And you, if you are a shark, you're going to go where, where there's blood in the water. Yeah. I think, you know, the place is to Target. You know. The people that are going to be the most easy to Target and here you are, you're in charge of a whole.
We have a continuous. Cool. Yeah owner all people that you can victimized. So for my understanding, there's okay, there's two organizations that are connected to each other up. Like there's New Westminister house has been around for 40 years and again I don't want to Discount the good work. Saving they have done good work and then there's the last door. I believe that Adam was more Affiliated. The last or the newest miss our house is Women only and then the
last door is as males, right? But they have cross. Yeah, they do integrated Community stuff, meetings. That sort of thing. He was a personal trainer, so he was known old, he's a personal trainer. He works with the last or he was very parently, very aggressive on social media. He got your number or your social media that he'd send you lots of tax. And so again, you know, here at, You Know, You're vulnerable woman this dies And interesting. You everyone saying he's a safe
person. He has ties to the the higher up people that are in charge, he brings in lots of money and donations. So we had a lot of clout in that Community for my what my understanding is. And then he would find a way to get a loan with a girl or providing them apartments, right? That's where the Power Trip came in.
And for my understanding telling me sort of the story of what happened and I mean that's that's a common tactic for For these deadly predators to. You literally ingratiate yourself into these places are organizations or whatever make yourself appear trustworthy, you know you're very helpful, all of those things and for me those things set off alarm Bells. But for most people who have not experienced narcissist or narcissism are or any of the above these other types of
sociopaths and predators. You know, you're thinking oh wow, this is great, he's a great guy, he's doing all the things, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah and and for your average person, you know, these are all great things when you list them out like that they're graded. Wonderful. Yeah. But again, correlate that to the stories that you hear about other types of similar situations and predators, whether that be in religious areas or it's bringing the yoga community.
Unity to - yeah, Bikram Yoga guy not to shit. Talk anybody or you know to be down on all men or anything like that, but I always say, you know, women when they're in vulnerable positions should be seeking out other women. Yes. So instead of you get into that danger zone, following sort of these gurus. You have this guy's giving a little big Guru Vibes being at, you know, giving back room Vibes. He's a personal trainer and that and I mean, just have women's
support women. I told there any sort of stand on their own again and, and be able to differentiate, you know, between someone who wants to prey on you and somebody, it's important to work on yourself. You got almost being very selfish in your self development and it's not the time to have a relationship or pursue a relationship. And ship because at all. Yeah you know that was that was very stressed for me when I when I went through it actually went through twice in the organization.
I was relationships are really frowned upon because I only have time to pursue a relationship. This is for you. It's to get new life skills. Get new abilities to survive the world, because drugs, Temptation alcohol, stressors, all those things don't go away in life, right? We just have to learn better ways of coping mechanisms and how to navigate Our complex very stressful world. We live in. Yeah, terrible. That the damage that he could have done and have done
potentially. We're looking at a large pool of victims, and I asked to some of these women because they were so vulnerable. Do you believe that they might have relapsed? Because of the experiences and things they said, yes, many people said yes. And some of them because of that relapse, have died because how dangerous I was thinking that. Yeah, it's It's murder really?
Yes, look at it that way. You know what I mean, you're going to take somebody and you're going to crush some you know it correlates to any type of domestic violence, you're going to take somebody and break them down and Crush their Spirit to an extent that death or relapse, or even taking your own life becomes a viable options. As I said, the stories and again, we're going, I'm going to make a podcast with the victim. We're going to get more deeper in this.
I thought it'd be great. To talk about with you because these types of abuse crossover and I even asked pulled asking people's opinions who had interactions. Do you believe he's on the nurses scale and they said oh absolutely fucking checks all the boxes back in the day. You know, when I used to hear the word narcissus I would say a tribute that to a person that was arrogant kind of pompous and
that's not necessarily the case. So maybe it was talk of the different types of viruses, the different spectrums of them and some people say, well, you know, Nobody's a little bit narcissistic and whatnot. And I mean again narcissism sound of spectrum. So you can have someone that is high in narcissistic traits. Let's say, and I mean, everybody thinks of Kim Kardashian was use that as an example.
So you can have somebody that's, you know, highly narcissistic, they're really into themselves Etc. They don't have the full-blown narcissistic personality disorder, right? I like to say that somebody who is highly narcissistic can change with time, and usually with something when something traumatic happens to them in life, you know, like some type of a near-death experience, let's just say and they can sort of have some type of epiphany
but that's that's very rare. It doesn't always happen. So I tend not to mention that because it can give people false hope. Hope right. You know so you know when you're and we're going to be talking about trauma bonds later, but when you developed a trauma bond with somebody, it's very hard to accept that they are abusive. They are a narcissist. They're not good for you.
You just want this person to change and love to do and be the person that they were when they were love-bombing you in the very beginning but this is the same story whether you're just I don't want to say just but whether you're with an Our or narcissist, right? It's very hard for even. Just a run-of-the-mill abusive partner to change. Yes. It's exponentially harder for somebody that's high in narcissistic traits to change. It's like a double, give a double whammy.
Now it generally speaking when I witnessed, or even myself and not nesting in romantic relationship, with Justin relationships, even work, relationship of all. Boss. That's an ogre you do adapt to their level of abuse, even myself, right? You know. Like, for example, I had a boss in this Vicki early, early days, when I stood Us in the stock market industry, this guy was not to probably doing coke and booze all night. He would fly off the handle over
the littlest thing. Throw those empty 8, m cooler, water bottles. Getting someone asks you a question. You just go not to grab it. Smash game for wall. This, your inferior nature. Over 80 spray to be asking the wrong question might and I couldn't imagine what it would be like to be in relation to the guy like that because he was married but even though you were very faithful but I couldn't imagine like cuz it's almost like it is very effective tool to use very subtle and over
terrorism on people, right? Looking say that to me. Oh my God. I'm gonna freak out and start smashing stuff and it's all your fault. Could you set me off? So therefore, you don't want to set them off, right? So you start changing your behavior night? These circumstances tiptoeing talk in a soft. What is it about?
The are ready to apologize immediately being in a personal issue with someone like that especially behind closed doors how quickly it could lead to abuse hard to explain it to people outside of it. And then people course we're not in the situation, have a very black and white view saying, oh, we should just leave them. Why don't you just leave? Yeah. Okay, so let's break down this, the conditioning that you get Verbal abuse in almost like
that. What's that? Famous Russian experiment, the dogs, pow below the powder. Yeah, you get condition. And then why is it hard for someone to First realize and then get out king that we talked about on here? I always recommend that if people are curious about something or whatever, just get on Google, the the story of Pavlov's dogs is fascinating and reading about, that is really, really relates to what we're
talking about. So, I mean, basically, what happened Ins when you're with somebody like that. And if you are walking on eggshells, there's a there's a hundred percent chance that you are being abused in some way. Whether that's probably mentally emotionally abuse does not mean that somebody is beating the shit out of you every day, right? Way more subtle than that and it starts off again on a spectrum abuse starts. Very subtly, it starts with the love-bombing phase and it
escalates over time. We'll eventually usually get physical unless you leave sooner. As you know, doing what you do. It's sometimes escalates to the point of murder. Yes, the way we develop a trauma Bond. You want to touch on that for sure. So, you start off obviously, you don't start off and the guy takes you out on a first date and punches you in the face. And you're like, oh yeah. Wait, you know, I think I'll go out on date number two, out.
Sure, that it always starts with a love-bombing. So when somebody is really Charming, they're really going to town with you. At the beginning, they love you really quickly or they want to move in with you. These are kind of extreme examples but they do happen frequently given showering, you with gifts, attention texting, you all the time, calling all that stuff. Oh, so you think. Wow, this person is great. I love being treated this way. This has never happened before.
He must really be into me and blah blah, blah. So okay. Great love-bombing is designed to have you fall in love quick and it's also meant to have you blow by the red flags that you are noticing her happening, so fast that your bed that they just end up in there in the rearview mirror. Yeah, I spent training so to speak. Hundred percent things that start to shift and change. And usually, these guys do something called intermittent reinforcement, which is pretty
self-explanatory. But on, and off, hot and cold, polar, any if you're using any of those things to describe your relationship, that's that's what's going on that leads into the cycle of abuse, which is I'll break that down in two ways. It's cycle of abuse that usually use that for run-of-the-mill abusers, right? Not not narcissist necessarily but it applies. So it starts with love-bombing or the honeymoon phase is also
called, then it goes into. You always know when it's the walking on eggshells start, right? And that's called tension building because it is you use sort of sense a bit of a shift and you don't want to piss this person. You know what I mean? So you are literally walking on eggshells. You're just waiting waiting for the things to happen. And the thing does happen, then they call that stage, the explosion stage like you described with your boss.
Yeah, freak out, freak out right stuff, it might get physical at that point, punching holes in the drywall and then it goes into and picture. This is a big surprise All right, so and then it goes into the ghosting phase or the silent things just, you know, like the it's like the calm after the storm type of thing which it is. And then it starts back up at the top of the wheel, back up at the love-bombing stage.
So after you've gone through this intense, emotional situation, with this person here in terrible, your wailing, it is Like a rollercoaster ride and you desperately want to get back to the feeling good times and they do it. This is when the person is remorseful, I'm so sorry. Oh my God, here's some flowers. I love you so much never happen again. And before, you know it, you've done that whole circle again and this can repeat and repeat and repeat for years and years and years.
And that's how people get stuck. Yeah. In these cycles of abuse. You really becoming Changed by the the circumstance. Us. And you do, you will have your first time become Changed by it. And when you get accustomed to living in that cycle about way, with the walking on eggshells and I used to describe it as, like, sort of throwing all my love's like, Oreo.
My love is like a black hole and when you're in that tension, building phase you are doing absolutely everything to appease this person, whether that be cooking the dinners that they like doing. You know what I mean? Mean doing sexual things that you don't feel comfortable with. That's very common, just to appease, this person, you do become your living in the fear, a lot of the time, most of the time walking on eggshells is, is the number one indirect
indicator. Like I said, that you are in some type of ongoing abusive situation. But because of the way, the cycle works and that you Circle back to the So the love-bombing phase every time you think, oh my God, maybe this time it'll stick maybe this time. They mean that maybe they won't do it again. Maybe they really are story and often, you know, that's the point where counseling will be offered.
Oh, we'll go to counseling. Well, go to counseling, I'll go to counseling and a lot of times that's just offered so that you will stay in the relationship. The, the pendulum of Vomit, izing belittling and then affection. Oh, I didn't mean that I had a bad day. Oh, you're so crazy. If you won't did this, the everything would be not to be like the the back and forth,
right? So, one of the things that quite common from being in a nurse's they, or an abusive type of relationship is post-traumatic stress. Yes, baby. Talk about what is post-traumatic stress? Well, what I will say, maybe I'll just preface that with earlier I was Going to break down the cycle of abuse into two versions.
The one who got abusers, use and the one that specifically sort of narcissus related and that's the idealized devalue and discard right and probably hit home for a lot of people and that that relates to what we're going to talk about next. Because when you're constantly being devalued and you did touch on that too, you know, you're so stupid, you're fat. Nobody Buddy will want you. Nobody will love the way that I do. And that's more of a psychological tool, right? It's emotional abuse.
You know, you are really tanking that person's self-esteem. Yeah, so that they won't have the strength to leave you and I would encourage people to look up and usually, it's not recognized and The DSM, which is the, you know, the manual of the diagnostic and statistical Manual of disorders where you find narcissism and all these things. So they have not yet included complex PTSD.
There's a large contingent of people that are trying to get that included because it's not PTSD is usually something that is incident specific. So in other words, it's something that, you know, like a car accident claim, Crush this one traumatic incident that you've been through war that causes just this deep trauma. But when it's constant and consistent over time, all these small injuries, it's called complex PTSD. And that's usually what drivers experience and you are traumatized.
Yeah, it's drama. Its deep trauma. Some, some psychologists and psychiatrists are starting to use that despite Despite its not being included yet, but, but it is absolutely valid. And if you think you might be experiencing, this level of trauma. Absolutely, Google that. And, and look up the symptoms. This is something that many many survivors of domestic violence and narcissistic abuse experience the reek of the narcissistic abuse leads to self-doubt erosion of
self-esteem. But then, at the same time, they become attached to Ooh, the person that's causing. So this is the phenomena that that is very destructive and this is why it's cycle. That's very difficult to break out of and then if you overlap that with finances, like you're living with the person you share Fleet maybe a children with them. Maybe there's an overlining substance, abuse problem, alcohol pills or drugs.
Then it gets even more like you will sink into the quicksand so to speak even more because it's not just dealing with the ongoing abuse but now Deal with all the other problems that that have occurred for being a relationship with this person. Exactly. And and they will isolate you from your friends and family, they will financially abused.
You Financial abuse is a thing, it can be anything from them, taking out Credit, in your name, using your car, and your insurance, moving into your place anywhere, all the way up to preventing you from working or forcing you to work, you know, it's Financial abuse is very common in these types of situations, so that makes it doubly hard to leave. Especially in Vancouver. I mean yes when a one-bedroom apartment costs, you know, two grand plus right?
It isn't it is insane and the housing crisis is not helping people in situations where they are experiencing violence. There's just no, there's no social safety net. There's no there's no housing for people and honestly if your choice is staying at home or going To a shelter somewhere. I mean, come on. What are you going to? Pick course, you know, it and that's a scary thing, right? Going to Emergency Shelters, have no idea what you're getting
yourself and you're doing. You're stepping out in the abyss and the unknown, and as bad as it sounds, at least, you know what you're what you're getting into. If you continue going home, okay, maybe it'll be cool today. You know, I mean, you've usually worked out some way of coexisting in that abusive relationship.
So to cut that off, completely and going Ooh, the absolutely new environments even unknown, which may be in some cases, you should because it's getting to that point where violence is escalating and and it might actually save your life, right? So, yeah, every time. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You know, a lot of the shelters
are quite good. I do have to say that but the spaces are very limited and there's just, there's just not a lot of options and especially if you have You know, kids and you have supposed to leave your pets, taking people having pets now, or having a hell of a time. Getting place is just for having a dog or a cat is getting hard. Yeah, exactly. Speaking of pets there was, I think it was last year there was it was it made it to the news, the news cycle and a woman had
had her two small dogs. Murdered, you remember that? Yeah, I kind of remember that. I said to myself that is Violence and terrorism to. Well, they will kill your packs. They will threaten to kill your pets. So leaving your pets and leaving yourself and leaving your pets with the abuser. It's good. I get a lot of beams from, you know, people and bad situations. I'm a very distressing because it's like, you want to build a help them to the, I try my best to send people resources on.
Stuff but as you know, the resources are pretty, you know, are used up. Yeah and I was talking to a woman recently who's actually in a relationship with a very in a very bad situation and just like what you were talking about, they're actually looking to get divorced and, and there in that separation stays but because she has literally nowhere to go for. So living under the same roof with her. Separated were a, could be potentially dangerous.
When you're standing up for the person saying, hey, I'm leaving, but we have nowhere to go. So, I'm here for a few months, so, you're on the ultimate shells. Now, and it could be quite critical.
And I hear that, and to that, I say, like, even the whore, anybody listening, even before you get to that point of having that conversation, do some Escape planning, you know, get your paperwork and jewelry your important stuff, photographs out of the house, if you do have friends or family, even if you've been separated, Operated over miles or, you know, continents, even reach out to people. People are willing to help if you are in trouble for the most
part. See if you can sort yourself somewhere to stay like the day that you leave. If you have to pack your bag and just leave, do you have somewhere to go is all your stuff. You have a go bag, you know, like that, like, do anything that you possibly can so that you can get out safely. Yes, and and that's called a skate planning.
And sometimes that takes months, or, or even longer just putting all your ducks in a row, need to call home and say, hey, I need you to buy me a bus ticket, do do that sometimes you got to do what you got to do to survive and yeah, and that's what it comes down to. So to just to recap the trauma bonding, right? Right, so, this is what I wrote for are some notes for those into research, for the show.
So, this is what the definition of trauma bond that I, that I so says, trauma bonding as a psychological phenomenon, that occurs, when the victim becomes emotionally attached to the abuser as a result of repeated cycles of abuse and affection. This bond is created, as a result of the users manipulative tactics such as interventive reinforcement, which you mentioned right? Yeah gasps.
Yeah and other forms of Emotional manipulation and of trauma, bonding relationship the victim becomes dependent on the abuser for emotional support. Validation, despite the abuse, they endure, the victim May begin to rationalize the abuser behavior and believe that they're the only person that who can meet their needs. This creates a cycle of abuse and affection that you difficult for victims of break. As we become emotionally attached to their abuser.
ER, So that's pretty good and saying that when you think about on paper eraser, this person that's doing this, all this to you, you become more attached them as a more of using. This is why its first important to recognize that usin that is happening to you, you have to come to grips to it because you don't want to think your abuse, who wants to think of themselves as a victim. You know, even myself. Like I was like, is this abuse? I know. It didn't feel good. I know I felt like shit.
I was walking on eggshells. See, you know, but I thought to myself god, well, it's not like he, you know, beats me up every day, and many people think this still to this day. That I mean, domestic violence the way. It sounds sure. You know, he gave me that idea that it's always violent, but a lot of people are calling it intimate, partner violence now. And that sort of things to cover a lot more. It's Literally, all the stuff
that we talked about today. Emotional abuse, you know, sexual abuse reproductive portion. There's, there's a thing going on now called stealthing. Were you just take off the condom? Oh yeah, really like Jesus Christ, you know. It's abuse is so much more than just as akal violence.
So if you, you know, anybody listening, if you are constantly being put down, if you're walking on eggshells, if someone screaming in your face, if they, if they block your exit like you, they don't let you leave same trap you in a room like all of these things. Are we remember that movie? I kind of remember movie, The Hedge, a low She's married to that guy and then she learns how to fight chance of beating the crap out of them. Who's like this? Really horrible abuser, not Begley.
Yeah. So but God is like that is what people think when they think of like a domestic violence, like a monster, where's my dinner? And then also in the belt comes out, you know, course, there are idiots like that and then they should. Hopefully, they will be in jail as quickly as possible because they really step over the line. But most people where someone, Does that you owe call 911?
You know, it's almost like an instant cause and effect reaction but no one's going to call the cops if someone's just gas lighting or and and gaslighting you over years and years. And now he find yourself in depression and anxiety of underlying health issues. You wonder why? Hey, why am I feeling like this? I go south with my strength. I killed. My self worth is down the analogy right there sharks.
Like the guy of the bounties of shark, he's just going to take a big bite out of you and then There's like the nibblers a little piranhas that just nibbled at their just of effective and it will eat away at you. Oh my god. Narcissistic abuse is almost like death wife. About that stocks. Yeah because the chip away at you a little bit all the time byte by byte so absolutely does and gaslighting we didn't touch
on that gas. Lighting is definitely part of that cycle as well and it's a very very effective tool psychological abuse. Yes will be this breakdown gaslighting quickly. Then we'll do a show just on guessing. It's such a rich and complex topic and so yeah. And it comes from that Alfred Hitchcock movie. Yes, I'd like in the 60s. I think it was gas, light, and drove his wife crazy.
Yes, gaslighting. And there are some I have heard of this story more than enough times where well literally move things you know like you know your wife comes home with her purse on the side and then he'll take a little bit somewhere else and literally out. Solutely drive her crazy and that that's the extreme kind of guy spider car keys, while they're in her pocket. She's going crazy looking for him yet but there's also a lawyer. They are saying, you know? Yeah, look at her, she she
really is crazy. And he has done that, and that is its more common than you would even think. Oh, I've heard that's all kinds of sick. They so here, this for the listeners, never maybe, never heard of gosling before. So here's a description of gasoline. So gaslighting, this is a form of emotional abuse in which the narcissistic partner manipulates, the other person's perception of reality, causing them to doubt their own sanity or memory verbal abuse is.
This is a form of abuse that the nurses partner uses words to hurt the little being, the partner. And, of course, emotional abuse, where the form of abuse with the nurses Barbara use emotional manipulation to control their Partners Behavior. So, what I read, all them these are like Ain't Optics and this is what I've noticed and that eyewitness is that is not usually this one type of talk that, it's usually multiple atactic Snappy. I didn't say that. You must have heard that wrong.
I didn't do that. What are you talking about? And an, even when you present, and this is going to resonate with people, even when you present the person with physical evidence, like, like a text or a pitcher, for example, you know, like, oh, I never slept with Her. Yeah. And, and have a picture of them naked in bed together. That's Photoshop. Somebody's trying to set me up, you know.
That is it, that is how extreme gaslighting once they admit that they slept, welcome, why are you making such a big deal out of it? Or they will pull the victim card out and blame you because you're so frigid and do the things I like? Yes, what I went, this is like that come up with the master, ability to one Take any accountability for their actions, they can worm their way out of any actions. They've done manipulate lie, just to make them sound better but then it's always the other
person's fault. If they don't do this, they shouldn't do that. Well they do nothing right. Yeah, which I this is the for persuade, this is what I find it infuriating. Some of the top tips that I use personally when I've been in these types of relationships, I simply got to the point where I recorded every single conversation I would have. So then when the argument was inevitable and they would deny it, I would just simply play it for them. And then chorus, although you're
recording me though. And then you just, I got tired of playing. Oh, you said this, I said that because it's inferior, because I tend to be a blunt individual. I'm not bullshit type of person, I usually, and usually, I'm pretty outspoken with something bothers me is with, and I found with these types of people on this spectrum, is sometimes the worst thing you can do. 100% And probably what you're getting
after is gray rock. Yes, a lot of people recommend gray rock method which basically means you become very Bland, you don't talk back, you don't have your strong opinions you. You literally become sort of like, like a, like a grey rock on enforced in the hopes of the narcissist won't bore them to death, right? But the problem with grey with grey Rock and I don't recommend it is because it's sometimes in the short term, you know, while your Escape planning.
Sure. Yes. The B is less of, you know, and outgoing person as you are and I'm the same as you. I am outspoken. I have have I have real trouble with with gray rock and it's, and for most people, it's hard to do, and it's, and it's not meant to be a long-term strategy. So if you find yourself needing to do gray rock, that's an indication that you need to get out of this relationship.
And if you're using great, rock is simply to survive until you can get your get everybody out the door and away from this person do that. But it's not a long-term strategy that you're going to do gray rock for the next 20 years is Your kids are grown up because you'll lick you just be like a shadow of your phone only.
Yeah, it's hard to keep up something that I did in the only because it's this help me because I have, you know, from my background I was in corporate sales and stuff it with my jobs I've had to deal with some very difficult people and you had to deal with them because Ur like the big CEO or the vice president of this other company. And in lot of the types of deals that I would do, Do they're like, very industrial type of deals. Oil Company.
Refinery, very big. You know, some one was like a large metal melting Factory. So there's a lot of complexities to these deals. So these these deals would take sometimes a year-long to accomplish that, you would have to interact with these people. And they were pretty brutal to deal with, and you had to write your work required.
So I got good at being very Clinical with them, if that made sense just answer their questions, specifically don't really give a little bit of gray rock, but I would almost be a little more clinical. Don't react pretend like you're a doctor and you have a ward of crazy. No patients that you're dealing with us. So you expect their behavior, you expect them to say unhinge things or insulting things and then I would actually stop reacting to the insulting comments.
I would simply say, I'm sorry you feel Feel that way. But you know maybe they saw you from practice for you. I gotta say like a bee. Reaction, all of that time. I mean, wow, that's a lesson. You don't get too often in life. You know. It helped me and then and then we're one situation. I was in work. Were the relationship became so combative where I just thought combating back. And then what I would do in the morning, I would do a check-in. Right?
Say, is everything okay today I just want to make sure you're gonna have a good day there. Anything we need to discuss. Is there anything on your mind? And then if anything came, I didn't try to address you this one, why didn't you bring it up earlier? And we and then I just simply, you know, your gray water rocking but you're still trying to show a little empathy even though you almost feel like it. So you're not doing like what they want though.
And this is what they want you to become bad of. They want you to be agitated. They want you to unhinge and off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's the same across all platforms. And, honestly, like I, as we sit here, I take my my And, I mean, so many show ideas. Did you know that CEO is one of the top professions along with surprise cops? Yeah, that attracts those with high levels of narcissism.
Yes, I heard that and I believe that I heard that in the general population roughly like six to seven percent of males have narcissistic traits right and and then in the corporate world, Old. This me go up to CEO the c-suite. It's almost a 20 percent of that population was taking these. These, you know. Also like I I suspect it's much more talking about it and everything that gets its possibly even more of the more
higher higher of a percentage. Oh yeah, chew it in in other Industries. I would say when I was in the stockbroker and we actually both 50% off like crazy stuff. His wife and I follow each other on Instagram. And she, I mean, I mean what she went through. That's that's an extreme version. Anybody that wants to watch a narcissist that work, and what we're just about to go watch Wolf of Wall Street, and the, in the US. Cocaine and booze and money.
Like I couldn't imagine like some of these characters in real life who now have millions of dollars cocaine to feel all their crazy ideas and then unlimited money. And then, and also be in a position where, you know, people are kissing their but because they have a powerful position and they're giving away or providing high paying jobs to people. Yeah, that's wild. It's we could even I should write down a list of Good movies to watch about narcissism. Yeah, let's do that.
I was thinking that we could go like look at some different characters of movies and kind of do like a breakdown of them as well because it's funny, like I said in the very beginning of her of our podcast today. When I thought about narcissism back in the day, I think about, you know, an arrogant person, may be dressed all prepped, me and designer clothing too, good for anything. And now, I actually look at a person like that. I don't see them as a nurse. I see my mother. System secure.
There are nurses that, take that trait. But and now as time goes on the people that I now categorize the nurses, they don't, they're not like that at all long time, they're quite unattractive and there and it's, it's cuz of that they're trying to overcompensate for being really at the end of the day. And I'm not trying to be disparaging, but some people are shitty people. And it's the way they are. They don't have a lot going on for them, their views of their horrible deal with.
They're the type of people that go to a restaurant or Fast food and their fries are cold and they want to talk to the manager. And next thing, you know, they're either on Tick-Tock. You're flailing their arms around, right? Yeah. They they they want constant confrontation from people on the Spectrum from, you know, from somebody who maybe does really take care of their body, you know, gym, rats and that all the word pound to someone with full-blown narcissistic
personality disorder. Yes, you know, Absolutely well. Again, you know, going being a person, I did go to gyms and still do and, you know, the Fitness. Willow. Absolutely. I it's like I worked. It was kind of funny. I worked in a nightclub, and then, during the day, I work out at the gym. I was a bouncer at a nightclub was like in the early 90s and I'm surprised we haven't run into each other. Yeah. I feel like we know some mutual probably do and then it's funny
because it is the same idiots. You see during the day at the gym, they were the same idiots in the bar. You know, they say that again, you know, again, I don't want to label everyone with the nurses brush. Some people are just, you know, they just don't have good social skills. So they almost great like a character, a construct that they feel that that's the the face they should be put out in the world, right?
And it may be in a lot of times in these, And I actually see us more ties in security, and not really being a confident person. When you're like, let's say you're a six foot tall man and you weigh 300 pounds of Rippling muscles and you're still doing more drugs and more steroids, he stole. And I met these kind of guys because they think they're small, they have like a body dysmorphia condition and I don't listen to verse. I see them almost as broken
children. That, you know, you're talking about these extreme like cases of or the woman. Gets like the Tripoli Double D moves hit OK babe.
I'm like yeah it's very I mean human psychology is is complex and it's also not complex because you know that's that's another topic for another day to you know, like when we're looking at somebody like dr. Gabor mate is from Vancouver to really talks about trauma and addiction and sometimes by modifying your body, you know for women like you talked about or eating disorders going to the gym four guys.
And That it's almost an addiction and a lot of addiction stem from childhood trauma and that's something, you know, maybe we can look at next time to, you know, how created out of adverse childhood experiences and that. So, it's all, it's all kind of related key touch on something you definitely I think a lot of people including myself included the things. That's our makes us kind of screwed up. Does stem from childhood more older? I get I realize that right?
Yeah. I know the type of relationships that I would get myself into. I had a crazy mother. I'd always get into a relationship where I felt like I had to save the woman that, you know, you're the Savior, your the yeah. And then you'll. Yeah, rescuer. And then I was spending all my energy doing that instead of putting that energy into myself, to making myself better than. Maybe I hate to say it, but
rocking a better quality person. And like I like I put on my page all the time, you know, having a narcissistic parents, that's who up to accept abuse and later. Relationships. Yes. Absolutely. You become as you do and and the patterns that you learn and your family, whatever those are you will tend to repeat those in your, in your adult life. So I do enjoy doing these shows with you. I we go back until if we can give a lot of stuff that we can talk about.
I hope that we can develop this into a successful series because you know a lot of people like the first one will go like this one. I just want to touch on the Adam ate. Situation. There's a Facebook group called stop. Adam H, if you were a victim that you went through the last door as a male, or he went to New Westminster House of the female you had negative interactions with them. Please contact me via Facebook or Instagram.
Send me a DM. I'd love to hear your testimonial off the Record. Even I had a guy called me yesterday and wanted. He didn't want to use his name or anything he called me. I Listen to his testimony. That I'm happy to do that, right? So it's a complex story. It has a lot of moving parts and a lot of victims. So I'm at this stage, I want to hear everyone's testimony and figure out what we can do as a community to prevent this from happening again.
And I think we're doing that already just by doing this podcast and I hope that in some way, this can change the way that these recovery houses are made. You know, looking at placing vulnerable people with people of the opposite sex act, wet, not maybe maybe that can be Revisited because that's at the end of the day that it's not the best idea. No. And then, like you said, it's almost inevitable that a person who has access to a pool of vulnerable.
Women are going to be. Yes, there exists. It just like, you know, wolf in sheep clothing. They're going to. Yeah. Populations and, and it's really not that hard. So,