Welcome to Vancouver, True Crime. I'm Mark. I'm the host the show today. Have a very special guest, a very honored, have Chantel the divorce coat. So wide introduce yourself Chantal and kind of what you offer in your services. We've been talking so by trough are and I thought oh my God, we better get going if the show so we better save it for the podcast. Right? Exactly how I'm Chantal up the divorce top.
And my goal is to help victims and survivors of abuse specifically narcissistic and sociopathic abuse strategy. Logically and methodically the leave their abusers. Hopefully, I'm hired before they leave, and because that just really lays a good foundation. But if not, then anytime after leaving, because as we know, typically, with abusers abused as an end because the relationship ends, it know, oftentimes and it's like an intensified eyes and amplifies
after you actually. And I helped with everything I help from hiring lawyers to knowing what kind of questions to ask to what to expect through the process to safeguarding yourself and your children. Abusers will typically use your children as pawns to hurt you, how to create really effective and maintain effective, boundaries around your piece, in your new life and how to parallel parent how to document,
how to communicate, effectively? As you're no longer stuck on the Merry-Go-Round, right on south pole, communication with your abuser. So all that sort of stuff under one giant umbrella. Well, that's amazing because it like worth. I was talking first hand, I've been kind of going in a deeper dive into narcissistic abuse and
What are my thoughts are? As because divorce has a massive impact on kids and it has a massive impact, actually even Honor Society most of the kids that become juvenile delinquent homeless drug addiction which is super prevalent in Vancouver and not only that. But even dangerous because of the fat and all and opiate crisis is caused by parenting, poor parenting and parents that can't get along.
The have conflict abused, each other, and ultimately divorced, every kid that I've ever met that, Ben's having a hard time currently or has had a hard time in the past was because of their parents divorce or divorce has a massive impact on children and Honor Society. The narcissistic abuse, it seems to take it to another level. There's a million reasons why parents don't get along and not all people that divorce are bad
people. There's many reasons that are legitimate to divorce is for, for maybe, it's sometimes best for the kids to divorce. But in these scenarios were you have someone for luck? Of a better word a Monster who maybe they're not classically violent, but they're highly manipulative. They know how to put people together. They know how to destroy people's self-esteem and they know how to be use by eroding.
Someone's self-esteem by insults put-downs, pauses, massive mental issues and mental health problems and has a massive impact on our society. So I think this is an important conversation and I'm really happy that you're here to talk about it with me. Yes, incredibly important. And what you just preface this whole conversation with is something that falls under the category of a scores.
And I'm not sure if you've heard of a scores but it actually refers to adverse childhood experiences typically children who are exposed to a plethora of things within their home life. The higher, the score, the worse off the child will be later on in life and Ace scores fall under things like sexual abuse, emotional abuse, Physical abuse of the children plus intimate, partner violence, IE to parents from incarceration, through to
alcoholism or drug addiction. And children who are exposed to four or more scores on the ace score, typically, suffer long-term mental, emotional and physical health issues later on in life, including depression anxiety, addiction themselves. All that sort of stuff, really interesting. And really important to understand that there actually is a whole study, and it's called Ace.
A scores? Yeah, I don't think I'm going to definitely look into that because it just, you added, uh, literally just from my experience. You know, people, I grew up with people have seen people's kids that I've seen, who are really, you know, struggling and doing the regular things for themselves. You know, kids with low self-esteem. Getting involved in gangs, getting involved, terrible things, you ask them. What's going on? What happened? Home it started when we
divorced. It was his since we started divorcing. My notice my kid is You know, their behaviors has changed, right? Maybe talk a bit about, we talked about this quite a depth off air, but why, you know, the family court doesn't seem very family-friendly, boil it down. Well, it really comes down to a lack of Education. I'm sure there are people, who simply just don't care, but a lot of judges and lawyers and experts child psychologists social workers.
All the people who are part of the process in family court and it's not just a Canadian issue, it's not Is an American issue is literally a worldwide, Family Court crisis. They just don't have the understanding. They don't have the education as though they show up ignorant. I like, they're either, they simply don't care or they choose to not put in the time to educate themselves. So you have judges, who preside over domestic violence cases
with zero training. And unfortunately, the societal belief is that domestic abuse is just about the parents. And again, remember, it's not Not just physical domestic violence, domestic. Abuse is any form of abuse, that happens between people in any kind of relationship. And they believe, unfortunately, that if you separate the parents, the abuse will stop that. It's merely an incompatibility issue between the adults and that it doesn't have an impact on the children.
Like we talked about narcissistic abusers, do not stop abusing because the relationship ends, they always up the ante post-separation into what is known as post-separation abuse. So, Really critical that people who are involved in the family court system from judges, all the way through your lawyers and everybody in between is educated so that they're aware of how presenters operate how they actually, how abusers present, abusers aren't these monsters.
They don't look terrible. They oftentimes are incredibly charming and charismatic and educated and articulate. And they present really well in court. They do not present as discombobulated and irrational. Their calm, they I love that kind of stage. They love to have this kind of stress, whereas, the average person especially a victim who's depleted, who's exhausted who was fighting for the safety of their children and themselves. They come across oftentimes as unhinged and irrational,
emotional. And then you have cases where children are sent to live with abusers and right. Best case scenario. These children experience trauma, just by living with an abuser at the worst case. They died at the hands of their parents. Yeah, that's all the most awful. You know, scenario. But even even like Don the subtle specs, I do a series with the narcissistic Survivor on the Spectrum.
You know, on the lightest is walking on eggshells, but walking on eggshells for months on end or years on end, it is abuse, it really is. But but when you try to explain that to someone all, you don't you're not being hit, not being. And I think that is the pervasive mentality in society is that, if they're not being punched or hit and it's not a physical It'll bruise, then it is not actually abuse, but you have to understand that any type of fear or stress.
That's prolonged, right? Prolong stressed wrecks. Havoc on your body and literally leads to people's massive health issues, long-term cancer, fibro, anxiety, depression, weight, gain, weight loss, thyroid issues. These are all things that are impacted by exposure to stress. Stress isn't really supposed to be a short-term fight-or-flight, right? Like to get you out of being
chased by a tear? But if you're living in it, even if you're just and I just and quotations living and walking on eggshells, you're constantly under stress. When is my parent going to isolate me? Or ignore me or neglect me? When is my parent going to give me affection, all that creates, massive amounts of stress, which then impact the child's ability to fully Survive and Thrive and reach their full potential, giving your kid a disability.
So they can't function in this. This world or even world, that's even more complex. So to me, that, that is pure abuse because you write believe a job as a parent is to prepare your kid for society, and be able for that kid to adjust and be part of a larger community. And when they can't, well, that's the thing. As far as they're concerned to the world, they are the perfect parent, right? In any bottle off the lutely on paper.
All perfect parent. Oh yeah, and you boil it down as they cannot take accountability for anything even if they're the grandiose form. Of narcissist or sociopath or a covert one. Right? Who's comes across as more humble shy or more vulnerable? At the end of the day, they will not ever take accountability. They are always a victim of circumstance. It's never their fault, which is why they manipulate everybody into deflecting and projecting all that sort of stuff that they
do behind the scenes. We are even two people that think that they're good, people. It's all because they can never be held accountable. They are perfect and it is part of their very curated facade. Because underneath all of that is a very, very fragile ego and anybody who holds them accountable or presents them with the fact has to be destroyed because their entire existence is about pretending about facilitating the sly where they are. In fact, perfect. They're always the smartest
person in a room. Oh yeah. They're always the best like the best looking. They're always the richest. They're always the best parent. They're always the most successful business person. They're never at fault. They're never. Able to ever be held accountable and the tragedy is that these children come out of childhood with a deficit. They don't experience stability, they don't know, experience, unconditional love, right? You're supposed to feel safe with your parents in your health Society.
Indoctrinates us, all to believe that all parents love their children. Yeah, and that I think is a massive disservice for children who are raised by abusers because the cognitive dissonance understanding societally that your that's love you unconditionally. But then experiencing isolation triangulation, State, coating, gas, lighting manipulation, all that sort of stuff as a child. Really. The child isn't stopped loving their parent. They stopped loving themselves.
Yes, that is the foundation of all the other issues that they have emotionally and mentally, the people pleaser in the house right there, they're doing that to create peace to avoid confrontation. Yeah, you said something I'm very interesting and I and I was saying the stood in another conversation the child stops loving themselves.
And I said this, another conversation about another very narcissistic abuse, a relationship that I've been witness to the thought, my relationship, and I've been witness to and this is what I boiled down to this abuse. What it's dahua, what has done? It is stripped, the ability of both the children to love themselves. If they can't love themselves, and Can't do what's best for themselves. You know, whom you love yourself, you do its best for yourself.
They've lost their ability to love themselves. So if they can't love themselves, how do you expect these kids to show respect, or love for anyone else? So, in my opinion, this parent has stolen the ability of this trade of these, two children to love themselves. And now both of these children are and in terrible mental and in shape and I'm hopefully some miracle turn around with these kids. Need a lot of Help. And it's all because of a, narcissistic abuse of parent
that dis a net. And the thing is, is that oftentimes there are those children, just like you described to come across as it is like in a deficit, right? They don't take care of themselves and don't shower, they don't present. But there's also a lot of children who present beautifully, right? So they're very artists teachers and caregivers and therapists to actually spot these children because they're highly perfectionistic re have a lot of onus on their appearances and
their athletes, right? So they Really well. And so they appear to society, especially in our society, where we are really honed into how you present, right, the awards like a bit. We don't have time - Awards, we have Atletico Wars, we have academic Awards, right? So, these children who are also raised in these incredibly abusive homes, come out and present really well, their hair is always immaculately brushed, their clothes are always impeccable. They get the highest grades.
They, you know, are on all these teams and they do really well. Those children are equally deficient at home for sure, because he owes kids, easy have a bad crash to, I've seen that before tuning around holders to secret, and yeah, it's interesting. What abuse does because in a household, if there is a miss, a abusive Dad one kid could
present himself. As you said, another kid could present himself very differently when could become a very people-pleaser than the other one becomes a very abusive that I could. Yeah. And there's a mic the hierarchy. So, but The Golden Child, the faith, For child, is the child, who's chosen to represent the parents Perfection to society, right? This is the child, and this role can change at any time, which is why kids are constantly competing to have that rule.
So it's always stressful. So that child tends to get more accolades gets like the best parenting gets the best exposure to, because they are the ones who try really hard to show the world. They tend to be perfectionist. They tend to have high anxiety. And yes, they tend to be closer to their motion. Cystic parent because the parent views them as an extension of themselves.
Look how perfect I am based on my child and then you have the child if there's like three or four children, you have unlike the people pleaser to falling in between and they tend to be very accommodating but they also tend to be children who then grow up to partner with people just like this because the Have No Boundaries, right? And then at the very end of the spectrum, you have the scapegoat child and all the ills of the family are placed on this one child and that child.
Old is responsible for all the wrong stuff. And so again, it deflects responsibility from the narcissistic parent, who then projects onto this one, child, all the ills that they have, right? And that child tends to be the child who struggles and again, just like anybody who loses control, if you don't have control, especially in your whole life, especially when you're young and vulnerable and impressionable. You, you create maladaptive coping mechanisms, right?
These are children. Who might cut? These are children, who have fangs night? She had depression, these are children who turned to substances to noun themselves. These are children who have, you know, anorexia and bulimia, because they have no control. So they really struggle to find control in another way so that they actually have control over their own lives, some way? Yeah, that makes sense to like, you brought up some stuff that
got me thinking as well. We're so let's talk about this for people that are listening, moving men or women, probably more so women, unfortunately, who could be thinking about Divorcing their partner that's narcissistic, abuse of Social Power affect, maybe all these things, and maybe what are the some of the things I should start thinking about especially if they're in one of these types of relationships. Because divorcing what I've seen you know personally divorcing
it's on it's on a boat. It's like you got to win your freedom. It's not just divorcing. You know, you're eating. Yeah, exactly. Because again I've said I've known a lot of people in my life and not a lot of people got divorce and even people that were both kind of cry. Copy, who had tough divorces, but they weren't narcissistic they were just kind of crappy people, right? Maybe they had alcohol issues or whatever these people are on a whole different level.
When you divorce am, it's scorched-earth. It's getting ready for the earth to be salted and trench warfare. So, the more I attend a and I can't stress this and I'm pretty sure you can. The more you can understand this up front of what you're going to go into better, right? Well, and here's the thing, and that's why I created my page and that's why I do the work that I do. Because I I really can't stress. This enough education is key, knowledge is power and so many victims.
For whatever reason simply, don't understand that leaving is not going to be the hardest part. It's staying gone. That's going to be the hardest part leaving even though it's scary and there's so many obstacles. It's the easiest part of you leaving a narcissistic or sociopathic abuse or once you would leave its game on gloves are off and it is absolute Warfare and you are a Public Enemy Number One because you have Aired, leave them, abandonment is their greatest
concern, right? Even if they cheated on you and discarded, you you moving on, you filing for Bears. Yeah. You doing anything that's not continuously Tethered to them and not at the cost of back in and call, if you become the enemy because you've abandoned them and then their other fear is exposure, right?
So, if you've left them, and you're educated about and you start to put the pieces together and confront them on their behavior, their other fears exposure because They've worked their entire lives to create this public Persona, right? Yeah. So people need to be methodical. I rarely get clients, who hire me before they leave and while I can be very effective after you leave. If you've hired the wrong lawyer, and there's been motions
and orders in place. It's really hard for me to effectively help you because there's already been issues and obstacles. Put in place by the court system by the bye everybody. The bath time to hire me or any other kind of high conflict. Divorce coach is before you even have the Russian or Escape so that you can be strategic so that you could be methodical and how you extricate yourself from the abuse financially, ensuring that you have funds.
I mean, the easiest way to keep a person submissive and acquiescent is to restrict their access to money. And guess what is the first thing that most abusers do is they cut you off from credit cards bank accounts? They put you into debt so you can't even get a credit card. Good luck trying to rent a car or get an apartment if you have no credit or very core credit, right?
So, it's really important that if people are thinking of leaving that, they do the work before they even allow their partner to understand that they're leaving now, these people are hyper tomb to Spidey senses, they can pick up when things are changing when they feel you pulling away. And so if you're planning on leaving, you need to be very careful that you do not allow them to see that you're leaving,
but they have no idea. And that means that you need to safeguard yourself electronically, right? Change your passwords. Clear your search histories ensure that you have a nest egg that they don't know about that. You also journal and or document all the infractions everything and be specific time and place. Who was there? What happened in a place that they can't access? They will go through your stuff, they will access your phone's.
They will access your emails. They'll go through your purse, your wallet, your car. So it's earlier of our many boundaries at all. Like they really don't and they do not think it's off the cable. Can you you as a real human being? They see. UFO, or they just see you as like, a construct that they've created their head what and leaving and leaving is the scariest point. So even if your partner has never been physical in your actual relationship, prepare for
them to become physical again. Yeah, you have literally triggered their worst fear of Abandonment and they're losing control and losing power over you. So they must increase their tactics to get you to submit back into the fold. Yeah. So they will Literally do everything in their power and they have no, no morals, there's no ethics, right? So it truly is Warfare at all costs, they don't care. Who gets killed in the cross fires, they said scorched Earth.
Yeah, which is why they often times use their children. They literally view their children as pawns, right? And they know if you're at the protective loving healthy parent. Yeah. Worst way to hurt you, is to hurt your children or restrict her access to your children. Yeah, no, they absolutely can be
awful. And then we talked a little bit about, you know, before we started about the family court system because people here Family Court, they think, oh, they're going to care or when or when I tell them about the of all the Affairs at they had. And they're going to care about all the verbal abuse and they're going to care about, you know, all the of isolation in the financial abuse and this and
that. And and then to most people's astonishment, those are not even really kind of the shoulder shrug and and family court did. Count again, you have Cobalt, he he he paid the mortgage, right? And again, the premise is that it's an incompatibility issues, so that you guys are just having a called operate, the 256k adults. Yeah, and everything will stop, right?
That's why I said I would think about doing mediation or couples therapy or, you know, therapies, and it's always weird how to communicate with each other, right co-parenting? I mean co-parenting, see the problem is that it's Possible to a victim to extricate themselves and to live a really beautiful life. But if you're constantly Tethered to your abuser, through your children, right? Children. Are the ultimate constraint,
right? They literally shackle you to your abuser for 18 years until your child ages out of the system, right? And you can't fully heal and Thrive while constantly having to be in contact with the person who created all of your stress and anxiety and like an issues, and that's why it's so Parrot of that all of society from top down from judges, all the way, through the society, understand the real, underlying, premise of abuse that it's all about power
and control. And that it does not stop, simply because two, people part ways that it, oftentimes intensifies, and they need to understand that nothing is off the table with this type of abuse, or they will literally do everything at all costs to break. You, you being the victim and they will use her children all the time. Time. This is why children get killed by parents right? It is also gets injury to the healthy protective parent. Yeah. And the pets to they'll Target
the pets as well. The other thing, too, and in cases, you know, unfortunately, invite platform, I, you know, over the years, I've had DM's from women mostly from every horrible scenario from very brutal domestic abuse to, you know, narcissistic abuse gaslighting. You name it the whole thing, right? Sexual assaults everything. And, and what Comes down to like what you said. It gets the most dangerous when they're trying to leave because that's when they're trying to
observe even more control. You know? Like yeah kind of a size out to. So we talked a little bit also about hiring a lawyer that's trauma-based informed when why is that? Well because you need a lawyer who actually truly understands this type of Personality. A lot of them spout and they wax lyrical about being, you know, I They are knowledgeable about narcissus, they understand abuse, but they truly don't understand.
It's important for them to understand because then they can be strategic in how they tackle this. Your lawyer's job is to advocate for you, right to right? Get you and your children, what you need to be able to leave safely and continue to have a life post-separation and after divorce. And if they don't truly understand this then a they won't be able to help you as a as a human who has experienced on.
Owen trauma and is easily triggered and if easily reactive right, and they also won't be able to advocate for you, effectively, in court and do what needs to be done to get you, your freedom, and they will prolong things they will do the wrong things, not truly understanding that it's life and death. Even if you survive your quality of life, if not dealt with properly, is going to be greatly diminished for you. And your children.
I've witnessed to is like how So creative that they can be with abuse. And I know, like I said Isis against a, they can weaponize everyday objects as a beast. Like things that more if you try to repeat as an abusive system, they can take any scenario that maybe you have to cooperate with
them. Part of what I also offer my clients is help with their parenting plans or their orders around parenting because I have seen so many poorly written parenting plans, which for average people as fine, right? We even if egos are As in people have been cheated on and laughed, the average person at some point, be able to dust themselves off and do what's actually best for their
children. Yeah. But this type of person is not your average bear and if parenting plans are an airtight, the language is so ambiguous and so many parenting plans which allows all these loopholes and all these gray areas which is a playground for this type of. So the parenting plan needs to be airtight language needs to be Rock Solid. There cannot be any gray as black or white. It has to be so specific. Bill, which is what I do with a lot of my clients has helped
them either. Hopefully, if they hire me soon enough, because they know then knowledge is power. I'm able to, at least create some sort of awareness as to what to include in your language so that you're not stuck with a guity that then creates engagement, which then insecticon his worm, its way in through the something, you would just some completely overlooked the, you know, their land. Zelda misinterpret things that are so very clear. Yes, specifically just to get you engaged.
We remember their worst fear is not Being relevant. So they need you to engage with them to feel relevant which then makes them feel powerful. So if you just ignore them, like this is why you have to pick your battles. Yes, you could die on Every Mountain.
But do you really want to, you need to pick and choose and sometimes it just need to turn the other cheek and let them how whatever it is, because that safeguards your piece in your sanity and also by not becoming a supply for the becoming really boring to them. So whoring that it's no longer worth their while. Yeah. What you can't gray rock? When you're going through a courses Dole, but you can certainly diminish, your appeal to them because you're no longer reacting.
That's another thing that I do people is help them learn to communicate effectively so that they come across as just business. It is just business experiences. I had to go through the whole Gauntlet myself because, you know, again, I can be pretty blond to may be argumentative. I'm passionate about something I've learned with those types of person. Has a worse thing you can do, but in blunt and This is how I feel about that. Oh, my God. And then course, they turn it
around on them. Like, you know, my, how can you say this to me and this and that? So yeah, they the communication style has to be very adjusted. Maya, my Approach is more of a, for overtime, is almost being very clinical with them. This being very clinical, very almost. And last, if more any emotion is fodder for them, any emotions. So Joel more fun. And and also to the easiest way, if they say something, absolutely ridiculous for repeat.
Eat it back to him like this. Repeat the sentence and say nothing like really well. And what I always tell my clients is never ever talk to them. Like you're not actually, having like a dialogue, is everything in writing a that also protects use it. You can actually go back and say, well, actually, we did have this conversation and you actually get laid at Ilyich.
Another thing I notice is like, massive pathological liars and then they can only create live in this kind of fantasy world and the fantasy world, as whatever they utter or speak becomes, Already in their head. Maybe if they repeat it ten times, they have met, then you're wondering. Okay. Am I dealing with a pathological liar who's psychotic? Or am I dealing with the delusional person? Who believes her lies? You know, maybe you're dealing with both.
Yeah, because you have to remember their entire life is a lie. Everything about them is a lie, right? What they present to the world. That's a lie, how they wax? Poetical? About being amazing. That's all a lie.
But they have to believe their lies because if they don't believe their lies of their Force to actually deal with who they are as people and that becomes, it's too vulnerable that they literally create this whole Persona, this you armor to avoid having to look at themselves a ticket or member, Anna. See. It's kind of funny. Yeah, it's a shame based. There's a while you my word with the color, fugazi their whole
life for the games. Yeah, that's why people have to learn to just be unemotional with them and you never Like I always tell my clients, just because they text you or email or call. You doesn't mean you have to engage your job. Like, really the foundation of everything is creating boundaries and if you're a people pleaser, that's really hard. If you're a woman that's even harder, right? Yeah. And if you have been abused in any capacity, you have zero boundaries by the end of it,
right? Because you figure your shins over time to always, acquiesce to their ever-changing wills and wants and needs. So your first job truly is to create boundaries and then really maintain them just like the toddler. If a toddler says mommy, can I have a candy and they asked you three hundred times and you keep saying no but I got it working first tight you give them a candy. What had? They just lurk right? They aren't asking for enough
time, right? So you really have to ensure that your boundaries are things that you're going to actually be able to consistently enforce. If you give in just once after you've created a boundary, you've taught them that they can keep comfy. That's a new goal post for the, that's another thing I noticed too. It's like, yeah, they can berate you, they can this pick out, you better. And then soon as you agree, okay? It's like written in stone by The, Who ask him something, a hundred times.
Why I never agreed to know, and the thing is, you have to remember, right? The standards are so different. Yeah, and these conversations for average healthy people are exhausting. Yeah, you leave a pleated but have to remember the more you engage with them, they love this. They are currently are empty and they need to feel alive. So you engaging with them you going back and forth that back-and-forth conversation?
That is actually not stressful for them that actually creates know what taught that used to be used a lot. Like this is kind of like in the 90s people, you see use this term and I think it really applies only see the psychic vampire, you don't really hear it as much in term anymore, but that's what it's kind of like what it is because it's like, you know, someone's like a physical creep and stuff like
that. You know, they cross most people's boundaries and they can't really go too far, if that behavior, if I slap, someone cops get called right away, you It's someone that added rate your child saw because it's clear cut, but a psychic vampirism, you first, you weaken, the person isolate, the person drain the person, everything the person says, is stupid. You know, you're so dumb. Good thing you have me in your
life. You have me to build you up and then this is false kind of like pretense that you're so fortunate to have mean the not have easily earned as a brainwashing and then it just slowly picking at that person until they're lifeless. Right? And then the Discard and then and then if that person decides to leave in the discard think of the mindset, they are in right there another completely like, you know, they're almost like I would compare them to someone that's trying to escape a cult.
Yeah. Well that's exactly what it is. Like a cult is just dis but on steroids. Right. The state promise you people involved more neighbor. Absolutely. And you can see this type of relationship throughout Society. Yeah, people in power often times this type of personality is And they literally are energy vampires. They literally suck you dry. And then discard you, and any movement past them is considered abandonment, Ergo a big threat. Ergo they need to pulverize you like truthfully.
If you committed suicide, that would be ideal for them because there are yeah, totally. You do their dirty work for them. Yeah, that out there, get a bullet to bite you. Yeah, that's disgusting, right. Think about that when you understand that, that if you died, that would probably be a victory for them so that's what we gotta go. Be clear on a question. I want to ask you, just maybe in your experience because like, you probably seen like, the whole, you know, got LED of
spectrums of these people. Have you ever seen anyone that had any success? Like, for example, when I mean, by success, is like, holding them accountable to say, for example, you're dating sore married to someone and they were having multiple Affairs, but they always denied and then finally got a private investigator, prevented above all the evidence, and things like that. And I know they would always Try to worm their way out of it.
But if you ever seen it where it's just like the evidence, is so stacked against them where they actually would be held accountable. Now the see the here is the thing is they they could literally not admit that they are wrong thing wrong because that would be scratching at their facade, that would be exposing themselves. Because remember there, it's a very Shang base disorder. Yeah, they are very, very delicate.
Egos, they have very You're a child egos, anything but smacks of dysfunction or abuse or imperfection is intolerable, right? So, they always come up with a story that to them. They asked believe. So he even if you have mountains of evidence, like literally, you have photographic evidence video, evidence of penetration, Right? Light fog, actually cheated.
Like, this is actually, I like the clear-cut Fidelity, like there is not like you might have got into her hotel room and Maps. You guys just playing. No. Right. They will say, well actually you have not validated me as a human. You have not given me and left love, right? So they always have to deflect, because to admit fault, is unacceptable to them, right? Always the victim, you'll see this pattern repeated. They're always the victim and their office.
They're always the victim and their family. They're always the victim with their friends. Well, I don't know why my friends all turned on me. I don't know why my boss fired me. I don't know why my co-workers hate me. I don't know why the Barista at Starbucks, you know, through. Latte at me. I never at fault. Everybody else for the world is going through life in this. Everyone hating on them and they're just misunderstood right there. Miss under.
Yes. And the common denominator is that a lot of times they're only successful because somehow either because of their parents or other enablers to clean, these come flying monkeys right that that that they can do no wrong and I've been in situations that are so toxic. And the only reason why this person's is able to do what they can do is because they bear their propped up, either by other enablers, sometimes parent or someone it is.
Absolutely disgusting and gross because it's like, you can see what a monster. This person isn't. Oh no. They're wonderful. It's you, it's you, you know, that Gary. And here's the thing is that these individuals tend to come from the type of familial Dysfunction right? Where there are a brand this way, not all, but a lot, even if in these, these families are not happy families though.
Even if they present the, when they're under threat, the family will bond together will come to the aid of whoever's being threatened of exposure of being held accountable of also, showing the world and exposing their dysfunction, right? Because in these families appearances are everything, right? So if you have any, they Always have a night was right with. This is why I think that it's so important that people understand what abuse looks like, so that
they stop enabling people. If you're an intro in this type of thing, if you don't actually put a stake in the sand and say I cannot be friends with the person, I cannot support a person financially, right? Stop giving people your business. Yeah. If you know that their abusers right cut ties with toxic friends who may not be abusing you, but have abused their spouse. This is why people need to fold these people, accountable by not reporting.
All to, you know, their kids are being downloaded or I haven't seen anything. Yeah. It's at the in any thicker while the times, these people are only effective because somehow they figured out to create a little cheering squad for them or something. And that's the thing I find the most bizarre. Oh, and it's disgusting. And there's these people are propped up by their families by. They're not even friends that I really have front have acquaintances.
They don't have. And they tend to be people who benefit from the relationship, right? So if you have them, the plate, the five, all the booze at the party up or has great party or might invest in your company down the road. But here's the beautiful thing about these people is that these abusers are not happy, no age and time is their worst enemy. Yeah, it is a victim and a survivor's best friend. It is their worst enemy. Yeah, they never die. Surrounded by loved ones.
He died alone, and lonely bitter day and I'd lost. They travel a lot and like move from location. Into location. They burn so many bridges, you
as a victim. So many people want like Revenge. Your best revenge is moving on is creating of life that you can feel secure again and peaceful and happy and just give them time, they will expose themselves over time and it might not be two years, it might be 15, 20 years but over time, they will burn the bridges because they treat people like this in all the relationships, right? I've noticed Nothing too and it's a sign or no, maybe it's on nice thing to say.
But see when I was younger, right? And I am feel say the weasel word narcissist, right? Before we. So she ate that with someone being arrogant or eight, you know, narcissistic maybe they were overly concerned with their appearance or they're actually usually the opposite of that, they're usually actually quite hideous. I'm not even joking. Like, as far as time, they're quite unattractive people but somehow they, they know how to manipulate really well present.
Very differently than what, what you think, classically? What a narcissism and that's sometimes why people let their guard down around them too, because it can be quite subtle at first or not like all an event themselves more as a victim to you at first whole poor me. I've been through all so much stuff and they try to get your guard down by making you feel sorry for them and then agree
shaving themselves out way. They're just misunderstood, it's like Seidel. I think I find in the very beginning, with most of them Again, Society has ideas, right? And we stand firm on those ideas. So we typically think of a narcissist as a grandiose overt, narcissus, right? Who tends to be charismatic and charming and the life of every party and knows exactly what to say and does not present as humble or vulnerable.
Yeah. But there are, those are easier to spot because we typically associate of abuser of that variety with that kind of force. Format, but there's a whole Spectrum, right? And they're at the very end of it. You have the vulnerable covert narcissist who oftentimes comes across a shy, you know, kind of our leak insecure and those ones are hard to spot.
And they tend to easily and openly play the victim card, whereas over ones, don't present as a victim, they represent us in charge right there large and in charge, think Donald Trump. And that's what we're looking at there, right? And substance abuse seems to always seem to go Hand has sometimes, it's secretively, sometimes it's quiet, but I find them more secure cases. They seem to have some other by Seaver, drug booze, maybe all them right there.
They're addicts because they have to remember, the constantly chasing a hi-yah daisy clappy by themselves. That's why they always overlap with Partners, right? They constantly need to to be doing stuff.
Be surrounded by people. They can't be quiet because if you're quiet and your introspective us, why they don't meditate for instance, because Cuz these are people if you confront who you are in the quiet and the Solitude, if you're not surrounded by people who are profiting you up, who are doing whatever it is that you want to do, then you might actually be vulnerable and they can't be vulnerable, right?
So, these are people who constantly have to be doing stuff, cause only have a partner, they literally can't be alone, and you can typically see unlike an abuser versus a victim as they exit the relationship victims. Tend to again, it's not always, there's always exceptions to every rule they tend to be more Introspective when they leave a relationship right there working on themselves or trying to protect their family. They're not jumping into the
next relationship. Yeah. Whereas the abuser has already overlapped right now, they're tip awesome about it. There is on. Yep. And they've moved on. They have a new partner, they've moved in right again, anything that presents to the world as being normal is what they want to do. Plus it also shows that they're actually not the problem that it's the victim. Who's the problem? Look how unhinged that first. And as they can't find a partner, I've already been
happily married. Now by just Stars, the personal never drink wine, and when, as good as me, it's people who get into relation, they didn't see it in the beginning. Talk to narcissus of Iver. She talks a lot about their job. There are their main manipulative job is make you go past your red red eye exam, making blast past somebody dizzying, distracting love-bombing.
Maybe in the beginning, there's lots of trips and On stuff and outings and, you know, that kind of fun stuff and they love you right away, right? You're the love of their life, they don't you in a second and another life and your, their twin flame, their soulmate, they did weighty. They're tying wise for you, this is why I always tell people take your time and do nothing that permanently tethers you to them. So what they love to do is to move very fast, typically they
move very fast, right? So they've just met you on a Monday and on Sunday, You're now living together, right? So things that keep you attached to them opening a business together. Getting merrier and it's are popping a child, right? And children are the ultimate form of heathery. Yeah, anxiety or bondage to them forever. If you have kids. And now, now, now you're part of them, right? Your they then have the ultimate tool to continuously manipulate
and control you, right? It's through her children by forgetting your children, by using your children's. You then become abuse by proxy through your children. That's why You need to take time space, right? Don't constantly talk to people don't be texting all day because you need space to be able to see clearly to be able to sit with yourself and say my gut feels low. But off it's not distinctly, like I am have met my soulmate but it's my gut telling me. Hey, something is off here?
Yeah, so if they constantly bombard you with stuff, right? If you're constantly engaging with them, even if it's positive stuff, right? Like trips and dinners and outings and seeing them all the time and cause Italy communicating with them. Day and night. You don't have the time to sit with yourself and say, hey this, there are some giant red flags here. I'm going to slow the breaks down and I'm not going to commit
to them. I'm going, you know, and they can't maintain this generated for sod for long. So, if you give them enough time cracks appear, Ergo, the red flags and then hopefully you avoid this all together, right? The worst thing people can do is to get into this kind of relationship and then trying to leave. You can avoid it altogether. Doc Yes, you're never the same person. You can have a wonderful life but you are now a new version of yourself with the right
strategies. The right experts, in the right tools, you can have a really beautiful life but it's never going to be the life. It could have been. Had you not met this partner? Yeah, it's unfortunate because Fighters sa use dating out. Some of them are you know, they're rapists or sexual predators. Other ones are Financial there. You know, there were 1 over 10 to be your boyfriend but all you need a regna, Chuck Toronto. I bought a little bit short then You Don.
T. Ya little girl scumbags, right? So they can a variety of form where they are kind of like a romance scam or in a different way.
But there are there like the ultimate monster that's like the the time bomb ossorio perfect boyfriend, in the beginning and then once they have in your knocked up and then I'll sudden your mirror, you're either living in another country or another city or sore with their family and and your whole life had looks like nothing that you and managing it would be Yeah and isolating a victim is very, very common in you isolate them
from their support isolate from people who might be able to look at and say, hey something is very dysfunctional here. You isolate them financially, right? They now have control over your access to money even if it's a very lavish budget like a, I have clients who, you know, get ten thousand dollars a week for their health. But if you have to ask your partner for access to take an eel that cage Sawyer saying, yeah it it's still not free.
No. Yes. Like you might be able to go to the spa and might be able to go to run through and by Gucci and Chanel, but somebody controls your access to get permission. You can't just say, hey I'm going to go buy myself some shoes, right? We're not even talking about people who are stay-at-home parents. For instance, there are people who they're both working but he controls among condos into the other person's account and that person then controls you have no
access. You don't have credit cards in your name, your, you know, this you know, like, You have their credit cards with under their name, right? How do you hurt a person? You hurt a person by taking away their access it. So you got Ian power? Yeah, and then good luck trying to extricate yourself, right? All the stuff costs, money hiring a lawyer costs money. Taking time. Off of work costs money.
Putting a deposit down on a like an apartment or townhome costs money, a retainer for a lawyer costs money while firing psychologists. All this stuff costs money and it's impossible to get access to my It's been hidden by the person who controls it and the courts enable this, right? They make it really difficult for victims to have access to. It takes time and it's sometimes it can take years. Yeah. And even then you might not
actually have full disclosure. Well, some tell, I really appreciate you coming and talking to me about this. Hopefully we can talk about it again. I'd love to have you on again and button your other subjects and things like that. We could talk for hours, literally about the subject. If my friends, thank you. If people want to get ahold of you and they want your services, how do they get a hold of you? It's the best way.
Well they can follow me on Instagram at the divorce at the underscore divorce underscore have where they can check out my website at www.24hrcares.com AA or they can email me at Chantal at the divorce have dossier but I'll put your contact information as well for people awesome.
I think you're doing a really great thing because again, from the stuff I've seen, if we knew about you three years ago, wow, who would probably made a massive Difference and in my personal situation to. So because again, you know, I can't stress enough, you know, for a person that doesn't really understand the court system, the legal system, you know, we have a teen violent problem of teens doing really violent actions, you know, stabbings and bear, spraying and swarming.
So this has an impact to all our society and course, our children are our future and as we go in the future we want to have a bright future for them. It's and children are completely A dependent on their caregivers, the completely vulnerable. Yes. And the impact that their that these people have on them can be hopefully positive. But oftentimes, it's completed completely opposite. Yeah. No, it's awful. So thank you so much for talking to me and awesome.
Thanks so much Mark, you care? Bye, bye.