Well, welcome to Vancouver, True Crime. I'm here. If it's very special guest Kim from the hush podcast and you're out of Tucson. Arizona by day, you are a 911 operator, which I think is super cool and you have your own podcast as well and maybe introduce yourself and talk about what your podcast is about. And you know, if you feel comfortable talk a little bit about being a 911, operator and the states and introduce yourself. Thank you for coming on the Vancouver.
True Crime. Kim. Thank you for actually inviting me. I know that you are a guest on mine. So I'm honored to be on your podcast, this time and share a little bit about myself. Oh, thank you. Thank you, Mark. Yes, during the day what I can't even say this day. Now I do night shift, so I'm whole crazy schedule already. So I get all the nighttime 911 calls as a 911 dispatcher. Wow I'm what's considered like
secondary. So the fire department, It's here in the police department will get the primary calls and if they need medical or further fire assistance, it's all divided by like Division and jurisdictions crazy. There's a lot of rules to where you're going to get your medical or fire responses from. But basically if it Narrows down to the fire station that I work with or the paramedics or the EMTs or nurses that I work with, then I get that call secondary.
So I'm basically second person to touch a 911 call at that point. Sometimes it varies some people are calm, some people are a little distraught, it just varies on what they're going through and how well they handle stress and whatever they're going through at the moment. I know some calls definitely stick with you some right? Yeah I can imagine you know, and tell them the city that you're in. I am In Tucson Arizona. So, this is the second biggest city in Arizona.
We're just behind Phoenix. I lived in the Phoenix area as well, but I'm back here in my hometown. Yeah, I would say the Metropolis itself is probably about a million people, so we get quite a bit quite a busy time of 9/11 phone calls, right? But it's different all know, it never is each day is different. I think that's what I like. Impact. Honestly, I love the impact that I feel like I'm making. I feel like I don't want to go through life not feeling like I didn't make an impact of some
sort. So when you're going through that scary or tragic moment, I guess how I see it as like I was your voice that guided you at the time until help got there. Even if we were too late to help, there has been some people that have passed away on certain calls. It's, it's the impact, I guess, the fact that some people are that just like, whoa, you're just so calm and, and thank you for staying on the line with me, you know, it's just things like
that. And honestly, some of it actually stems from when my cousin passed away. I'm going to the interstates here. Yep, it was like a weird freak accident was only 29 and I was 26 at the time. He was only three years older than me, but he was ejected from the vehicle and we are getting we We didn't know until I didn't know till later but my aunt found out like a few hours later, but we're grateful because all those 911 calls came in.
Like if people didn't make that call and reach a dispatcher, then he would have just been laying out out anyway, you know, so that really kind of geared me toward wanting to go further into dispatch and it's not a dream job. It does take care of me and my daughters, I love the it. Them making, you know. So I can't say that I don't love the job I do. It's not what I have my degree
in though. I went to score a goal of Buddhism but I mean in a sense this is communication, you know, they're their life during a crisis and, you know, a calming, you know, cool head, you know, it could really help and he definitely have that demeanor so I could see being really good at your job. Thank you. It means a lot that does. Like I say it's not what I went to school for, but it's what I felt.
I I was kind of driven to do after my cousin passed it was a little bit more of that sense of making an impact. I saw many lives he touched and we were grateful to get that call. Honestly, just even though he didn't make it like at least you took the time to call 911 and Report what you saw because it's amazing. A lot of people don't do that, you know? Yeah, we should have world where everybody is quick to go viral instead of calling for help. You're quick to record
something, you know. Yeah, I know that's kind of awful. So, how long have you been doing? For dispatching itself. I started taking up in 2020, so right after the pandemic, well, during the pandemic actually. But I decided to do something that was now is actually geared from leaving the narcissistic X, right rare. It's like, at the same time we worked at the same job and he was actually a supervisor messing around with somebody else at the job.
So it's like, well, I don't want to work here anymore. So I'm going to select Because again, you know, I've been doing a series called series is called evil intentions. It's about dark psychology. And I've been doing a lot of stuff on narcissistic abuse and I have a guest in our sick, Survivor who's the my guest host on this series.
So we've been going in like a lot of Deep dive on this behavior and what I said to her was like every single woman, I talked to my platform had a story, you know, my ex my baby too heady or, you know, so on and so on. And what I always find interesting, it's like you can see a pattern and all these stories, you know, like the love-bombing, the isolation, The Gaslight, you know what I mean?
Like it's they are because every person's story is unique to them and and there's different nuances of course. But it does shocked me how similar the these stories are. Why you? Tell your Xena. Yeah, I could go ahead and do that. So I met my ex when I was 19, I was at the University and And he was 24 going to be 25 at the time. So obviously someone in college you think you're hot shit because you build such an older guy and I get free alcohol.
So I was 19. So he was five years older and then his birthday happened to pass. So he goes up to like, 6 years older than me, for a couple months and then my birthday hits, and then goes back down to like five, so between five to six years. So it was just me. Going through this phase where I didn't really get a lot of attention male attention when I was in high school so much. As I did in college, all of a sudden, it was like this flower that Blossom didn't know what it
was like. That was a late bloomer with a lot of things. And here I am hosting a sex podcast, right? The World Turns will start going, right? Exactly, I didn't get all that attention, you know. Like you knew the girls that Developed early. I don't want to make it uncomfortable but I'm just I'm gonna open filter with anything no filters, honestly. So you see the girls that developed early that got the male attention. They got all the boyfriends that wasn't me, not at all.
Like, I felt like I was an ugly duckling story and then almost at an end. And when I was 18, the attention kind of peaked. So here I was meeting people like off of my space at the time, that was probably my classes and I had a, the University Self closed meeting people in my classes or online. So I felt this real good EcoBoost. I never attention and then my ex came into the picture during that time and he was a lot older than me, so I felt like I beg to somebody.
That could give me. Cool benefits in college. You know, I was 19 and I was under age to drink. So here I was like, okay, that's one cool thing. That was actually one of the first messages that he sent was like he was looking for a beer pong partner. It's like, I don't drink Beer. Like, I drink liquor but we can. Yeah, we can meet at some point and it was pretty sweet in the beginning. Obviously the love-bombing
stage, right? He was making time to come meet me between my brakes when I was working and that's how it developed he would come and your case. So what would the love-bombing was lot of attention being very attentive? Was it also guests and dinners out, It was like, what will they buy the stuff so I guess the good moments where, or gifts? For sure. So he had this thing with rings, he stood does.
So I dropped the whole eight years on and off with him, I had promised to bring an engagement ring a marriage ring, you know? So the first thing that he opened up with was a promise ring and I was like, 20, I think I had just, I was just about to be 20 at the time. And so, my family was thinking like your so, So young, you know, you should still experience things but he opened up at that time he got me a promise ring, he got this certificate.
That said that he purchased this star in the sky but I liked the gesture dates all the time. We're always going on a date. Going out to restaurants, they places like that but I never been to really, he would take me out to that. We would do the movies. It was sweet in the beginning, you know. Or else I'm going to stayed with him. You know, like why would a girl stay with somebody that she considers an asshole for so long?
Always like that, you know, but I mean, deep down those are like the narcissistic intentions, you know, but you don't see it because you're so blinded by all the attention, all the dates, all the gifts, you know, there, Was flowers. There was candy, there was all, you know, the stereotypical stuff and we're not getting that attention. And finally like thinking, you know, I have something good. I just ran with that billing for sure.
Of course, and lot of cases to because guys are either very, you know, they're either good at dating and being like cording if they get it. But the guys that are dumb, don't get it that, you know, what I mean? So it's a lot of times of Florida girls is this, is there. Ori is the last guy was just such a no attention. Not very attentive. Forget birthdays, not really go out of their way and so then when a narcissist love bomber comes it just seems like oh this is what I've been waiting for.
This is finally a guy that knows how to you know impress a woman and stuff like that so especially in the drought of it. And then sometimes it could also go to like a childhood neglect. So if your parents weren't very like you know what I mean? They weren't very attentive to you. Then finally, this guy Guy comes and he's like showering a gifts and stuff. You know, there's different ways where someone could get definitely caught up and I got caught in it. But two different relationships.
I've been looking for, it's a crazy feeling, I mean, yeah. And then you, you know, it does have to say, like, honeymoon notion only one stage, and that was like, a very big thing and the same thing as well because I said it was an on and off relationship. So eventually I found out about the cheating and And that's what led infidelity on.
His behalf is what led to me finally deciding to go through with the divorce or oldest was only nine months old and we are still divorced, but I ended up taking him back four years after I had filed. And it was again because he was trying to tell me that he wanted his family back, and he was crying to me, and he was telling me he was going to change. And then we went through another stage of Love bombing again, and the day, Dates and that was my biggest regret was choosing
other woman over you. You know, I was just being showered with all of this and in the beginning I rejected his Advance. It wasn't like it took them back easily. I denied him but he were there, you know, giving yes. I think that's how I view it. Now, you know, taking a step back and analyzing everything and then for him to do the same thing again with multiple women. In this time, this is baffling if that's so it's like an addiction like for them in my opinion it's almost like they
want to see how far they get. I think for them, the drug is, this is just my opinion and then there's of course there's a lot of nuances. It's almost like they see people's experiments righto, see if I can get her back. Okay, well let's apply this, so she likes flowers. She likes Rings, she likes her. Favorite Italian restaurant or whatever, you know, ply ply those things say the right. Thing and then it's not even fall.
Even stop seeing the other women the whole time and then see how long they can stretch it out for denial gaslighting, it's all in your head, you're crazy. All I would never do that, you know, the typical lines and then they get caught how to wiggle out of it. It's just a real lack of empathy. You know this scene is it really was. It's like I still don't get how you move on and then now there's two kids involved and right?
How that affects them. And so I probably played out to be honest of you is a key could afford the condo that we had at the time. So I moved back to my parents, which is where I'm currently at with both of my kids. And that's always been like a solid foundation for me. So I help take care of my parents. My dad's disabled, I'm probably doesn't want me to share it, but
I will. She's been battling cancer for the last year or so. Yeah, that's the topic of, you know, but I feel like I'm back here, you know, and it's a good good spot for me to be in. I'm content with my life. Now family is what's always been there with these ups and downs with this relationship with this man, which I am done with, you know, but at the time though, I was just in the feeling, you
know, how everything is going. And then when all the lies and everything starts, and I start to look again and realized, We're going through the same cycle. Yeah, really becomes up to me if I want to break that or just live with it, you know? Like I realized at that point, this man's not going to change. No, no talk to if the children
involved to write. Because again, it could you give more allowances because there's kids involved and then they use, there's kids involved and use that at for their advantage. See that, you know, because he was asking to expand our family have another daughter or another fun. So, Finally we had a talk about our second child.
She wasn't like she was not like an accident, it was intended, you know, like when you what we're doing and it was because he said that he wanted to try again with me, you know, and that's what we ended up doing. So we ended up having two kids after that eight year on and off relationship. One of the things too that he tried to pull with me in 2020, as when I decided finally, that we were done. This is like about a year dealing with lies of different women and I still put up with it.
And finally, I just decided I was done. I found these messages, he was texting somebody that we worked with and that was like the last straw for me, you know? And and so when I was leaving, he was trying to say he was going to commit suicide, okay, I left him and I I told him like if that's the route that you feel, you need to With you need to talk to your friends and family but I'm not going to be a
part of that, you know. I felt like mental manipulation, you know, it kind of leads me to something that I brought up to you that I was going through recently actually. So that was back in 2020 and of course, since then, I've been dating, I've been having my fun. I'm not gonna lie, you know, being a single woman enjoying enjoying life after a long relationships, the pandemic and, you know, having to pretty Stressful day job, you know, part of them.
Honestly, you going back to the job, my day, job itself. Apart of what I started doing was like, road-tripping places that my ex said that we were going to go together. I decided, why am I not taking myself to these places? Like I don't meet him, you know? So I started to go out and road trip and I found a lot of empowerment. I grew up seeing my dad box so I decided to take on boxing my own You know, just trying to get better myself on physical, mental, and emotional elements from.
So, I felt like I've been doing pretty, I'm pretty content. I've been doing pretty well since The Break-Up but that's part of the decompression. You. What do I do afterwards? I definitely do that music road trips, boxing. Taking my daughter's out because there's only dumb, they see the world in a different light then. Kids are therapeutic live little kids to they felt me like, heal from a lot of stuff too. Yes, it's amazing, right?
They really are as cliche as some people say, it sounds like they really do change your life and you see it there. Another perspective. That's part of the decompression that I do do. And so now how I feel is like since being at the stage, I can already point out something that I don't like, you know. So with this dating again I was just in a recent relationship. I was dating this person since October, but it was sorry like of 2022.
Yes, 2022. So it's already been about at that point, like, about two years, I was single. So I started dating this person in October, and I didn't make it official. There was a certain things, you know, I didn't make it official until December. Right. And biggest reason why I decided to choose him was communication. It was Ali good, you know, like even with my crazy night schedule where I work, 5 p.m. to
5:00 a.m. my time followership. Night-night time he was still managing to see me. Whether I was at my job or like, going my breaks, I get breaks, but I can't leave the premises come and visit me making efforts for communication. It was nice but we're no longer together. We only and biggest red flag was I kind of feel like a change in his energy and he wasn't communicating with me as much. She was like, literally going long hours not even texting or calling. And I started to feel like
something was wrong with him. And so I get this message out of the blue that the past to drink the past two days were draining for him and he was going to tap out on life and he had given it a good run. So I don't know what to think of that. Yes, right. He's sorry. Say that again. Last two days were draining word training for him. Yes, and yes. So I'm absolutely vitally. I'd Elation or some yes, definitely suicidal ideation. He was going to tap out on life. He said he did.
He said it, I've given a good run, some naturally as a concern girlfriend. I call him especially because we're only just approaching like a month officially being together, but I was getting to know him for, right? It's October which is already like two months before that seems like we're getting to like a three-month stage. Kind of getting to know each other better feel for each other. I call him and he answers the
phone nonchalantly. Like if I'm overreacting that was a red flag for me Mark. Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't like that either. You know, I it's for me, I got the manipulation and I say that because as you know, my job being a dispatcher, I get real calls of people that are going through suicidal ideation. Abnormal, psych, behavior training.
So you get the people that are honestly on the call threatening to kill themselves or you get the people that are concerned for this person and they're calling in because this person made a threat to to commit suicide. So to me, I don't play with that. I feel like mental health, the big thing, you know, it is we don't talk about it enough, but I felt like when I call you and I I just get the fact that it gets pointed back to me. Like I'm overreacting. Yeah and I felt like it was a
mental thing. Kind of like pay attention to me. That's how I felt but like I say I'm not trying to throw him under the bus. I know that interaction is a weird interaction, then the conversation kind of shifted because you know how I explain. Like I did move back to my parents but that's a some men will see before they get to know me before. They know that I have a degree, I got approved for my business. This license here in Tucson. So now I have a business license. Thank you.
I have the podcast which I'll talk about later, I'll go back to that, I just figured get right into. Yeah, no, I'm talking to you, right? And then I have the dispatcher job, you know, that I do. And I feel like I got a lot going for me. The one thing that I like in terms of Independence, honestly would be my own place. I let the narcissus keep that and he moved the other. Women with her kids, you know, is, of course. And yes, that's the story with
with the house. The condo that we used to live in. He kept it and the new families there. So, yeah, sad for the, to the torture, right? Right. And at this point now is going to also be the laughs is more like, Gallo humor laughs. If that makes sense, it does, it does. I know you're not laughing at my pain now, to me. Me. I felt like it was a spiteful move to try to hurt me but because I didn't react like the way I did to everything.
So when everything happened, when I was 23 because that's when I filed for divorce from him, remember I met him at 19, I left them at 23. When I filed for divorce, I still felt like I didn't really know how to react to certain things and he would get the satisfaction of me fighting with the other woman. Yeah. Me fighting with him. Making it like, His Eagle Eagle. Yeah. Yeah. It's all about their ego. The ego gratification.
It's almost like I actually use like the kind of metaphor that I think I think where the vampire myth those came from was a was narcissism because they drain you of your life for something but they do it in such a grandiose and that's what vampires are pretty grandiose and they drain you of your life force, right? I can see that. I like that that's how I feels. It does. If you get lost in their lies and then you forget who you are. Yeah. For sure.
So the healing was rediscovering myself. Honestly that took a long time. That's why it took me probably two years before I entered a relationship. And then I get this weird text, you know, about tapping on a life and maybe it is, you know. So to me, I ended that relationship. I hope that he's doing good. I ended it, he was actually Ghosting me out. Actually, to be honest, that's why I ended it.
So that's what weird phenomena that ghosting thing and the ghosting thing is such a coward, way of handling, a handling things. See, I could see. Like, when you're first getting to know somebody online or wherever you need them, most of the day's, it's online and they ghost you like, okay, you already know this person is now but yeah, I'm were actually dating. We're already like in person I had been to his place.
He had met My parents you know and like about maybe the two month marked I was like okay this is the person I'm seeing and we just made it official and we're going to see how this goes you know so we were ready at this point where we already established communication. We've been intimate with each other and then all of a sudden like you bring up this text message I call you. You think that I'm overreacting and then you start during that conversation, we're talking.
I was trying to see like I was wrong, you know, and he brought up this co-worker. I don't know. She's real or not. And the reason why it's sad that I question that is because of my ex it's sad. But like my narcissistic X makes me question.
A lot of things you don't like many people and I try not to bring in that baggage but at the same time he brings up this co-worker that he starts bitching about and I'm like, wait we went from talking about like are you okay to now you're opening up about something at work. You're bringing up this co-worker. This co-worker has it Kid lives with her mom and she parties
every weekend. So I told him geez, like I'm 32 if people don't know my background, my back story and they just see me back at home with my two kids. I wonder what they think. You know, if I felt like it was indirectly like, insulting me, you know, it's kind of its kind of diverting. It's going to changing the subject, right? You're trying to talk on fucking serious and he's and bring it up, probably something that would be a Old bit like a little bit provocative so to speak.
You know what I mean? Hmm. Yeah. Like oh I'm going to talk about some check instead of what we're talking about, right? Yes, it was like that and to me was almost like what she to you though. You know what I mean? Like why does it bother you so much? That that's how she's living her life. You know before you to shit on her life though. Like you know I feel like honestly we're all works in progress. Will you let her be live her life? What does that have to do with
you? And I am me checking in on your mental. I'll help though, you know, yeah, everything you feel okay? May I ask a question that so do you feel that your readers have been off? Because he been through all this stuff and then sometimes you might be by be over-analytical to some guys. It does. It does. I feel like that's definitely a case. I definitely was left with a lot of trust issues. I might be half. I feel like I'm standing by and
leaving this last relationship. Everything was good. Until that weird communication and the the suicidal ideation, I felt like it was a little bit of mental instability, but I also felt like it was a little bit of mental manipulation. You know how many probably sets it to die?
You're probably sensitive. Someone using a game or some kind of the if you're probably would be okay if someone was really straight with you, and maybe on the blunt side and even if it's a little blood rudeness rather than someone playing games and yeah, Yeah, it had a story. Yeah. Honestly I would prefer that like that. I like that too. I was researching something interesting because I've been doing like a lot of deep research on narcissism psychopath. They call it dark Triad right
when you met him. And most of the people that I've talked to, most of the women, I've talked to when they talk about their narcissistic abuse of axes, they all met them young. They can be taken an easy by nurses or a Go past because they appear very confident. They appear very confident in their abilities and confident their life. They even paint a great facade. We're older women don't tend to be taken by them because they look past the the confidence that they present to a young
woman. Those things appear as confidence, especially if the guys, her age are all like dip shits playing video games. Yeah, getting skateboarding. And you know, nothing wrong skateboarding. But you know guys do mature slower than women. Yeah. So as you get older and He's my brought her up as you get older and dealing with this kind of next person you're seeing through the manipulation
earlier. Because I bet if your ex did that a long time ago, early in one month relationship you'd be freaking oh my God are you okay baby? What's going on? Didn't react like that and that's what flea was probably expecting. Oh, my God. Baby, what's going on? Yeah. Lester response. And then, is that make sense? That it does, that makes perfect
sense. Honestly, I feel like I've been through a lot of things with my ex, you know where if somebody tells me that the sky is blue, it's sad, but I'm going to go check this is, I don't see those guys blue. I'm gonna go see his it really blew, you know. Okay, then it's sad. It's really sad, like, I hate to admit that I have that much trust issues myself. I do feel like in this case like, Like the way you said.
So, when he and I met, he he came off with the fact that he had done some tours in Afghanistan. He had been in the Air Force, he had gone through long-term relationship. So he knew what a relationship consisted of. If I was interested in taking that path with him. Yes, it was a lot of things like that. Well salesman, you know what I mean? Pretty like, wow. Sometimes you can relationships will, you know, it was, I was in the beginning. Honestly, I was just looking to
to mess around. I'm not gonna lie to you, like I was 19 like, and then I get free liquor out of this. And then I had moved out. I moved out of my place when I was like 20. Yeah, I think like 19 gonna be 20. I moved out. So here I was my family. Didn't approve that. That, but, you know, I'm going updating, gotta let go, you
know. So here I was like every weekend, having my boyfriend over and some ways just like, when we were first dating, my family had this rule like, you know, he could come over, but if he sleeps over, there is no sex in the house. Yeah. In this segment LED, he can sleep in the living room, you sleep in your room and that's how it was. So, and I'm like, 19, this newfound freedom because I just moved out and into like, An apartment, a townhome, a two-story townhome with my cousin.
So here I am having the whole downstairs to myself. Remembering a boyfriend out party party. Exactly, he could bring the alcohol, I don't have to worry about getting a fake ID. Yeah, I've been, yeah, the deadly have benefits, and then it was like, you know, the intimacy, the sex every weekend, because I wasn't allowed to have that. So here I was like indulged in the freedom of that. And not Seeing all the signs though you know? Because I was so caught up in
that feeling. Yeah. And also young, you haven't you haven't been through that yet, right? But he's exactly like, for example, like these things are going to jump out at you a lot harder than they were before because you seeing this and oh my God, and they also cost you, they cost you, you know, financially going through divorce court which is never fun and the impact on your children. So you now understand the implications of, you know, Certain behaviors and where they
can lead, right? It's different if you're just a boy and a girl or a man and a woman together. You don't have any other outside responsibilities but kids and you know your career job and other things that can have an impact. Right. Exactly. Mark, I feel like I grew up a lot with everything I went through with the narcissistic X and it was just a lot of mental manipulation but me having to see it for myself, you know, and starting to realize that.
So now coming into To this new relationship that I was just in and realizing the communication was a lot better than it was with certain guys that I was meeting online. You know? So I felt like okay, that's a big thing to me for sure. I want somebody that has the open and clear. Intentions. That's not. Wait, I'm, you know, like, you know, we're not getting any younger per se, but also the fact that I also have two daughters were above. So like, what do you really want?
What are you expecting? Is this your physical? Do you want a relationship? And so for me to choose this person and then all of a sudden get this whole like sense of mental instability. That was just triggered because he was not like that the previous week then all of a sudden he pulled away and instead of me chasing after it was more so making that drastic that this is how I see it,
making the DraStic text. And again, I'm not talking bad about mental health because Has no no transport patients all the time like this, you know, I have to send units out for people that are going to suicidal ideation. So it's not me being insensitive but I felt like this was just a ploy to try to get me to react in a certain way. And it's like the way you said, everything that I've gone through kind of pulls me away from giving you that reaction.
Yeah, for sure. That makes complete sense and and like, I get it's something that you shouldn't play around with. It's not as much a relationship especially The new relationship, it's, it's unfortunate that I believe that lot of men and women don't know how to talk to each other. With again, again, I'm a little bit on the blunt side and sometimes that kind of rubs people the wrong way, but at least I'm not full of shit,
right? Not going to actually brings me to an episode that I did on my podcast where it was about only fans and finesse. I feel like there's a lot of finesse these days. I think that some women are trying to be on this independent level, but they don't have a problem. Milking a man for money, so to speak. So you get women like that, you know, that they'd rather spend your money then spend theirs for sure. Yes, absolutely. There's always one that's hilarious.
It's on Tick-Tock and it's this poor bastard, right? He's like, takes this girl out on her birthday and she's like, 16 friends with her and he's like, I gotta pay for everybody. Like to do that. That is a taken advantage. I would you mind again from? Do you mind if I take a few
friends, baby? The Secreto that 16th girls show up they're probably all over him like a porterhouse steak prime rib and cheesecake and odor you know or there's the one where the check is like she wants him to pay for takeout meals to feed or kid on a date. Yes, I've heard of that too. Yeah, I feel like I'm mixed About certain things. See, the way you said, like, if you're making money off of it, who am I to knock that? Like, I wish I had only fans.
Money would not doing the old leaf and stuff. We're only friends all my family or friends finding out. Yeah, but here's the thing though to. I'm also like on the fence about women that honestly, it's sad to say but feed the full as fantasies, you know, like they know what they're doing. There's this thing that I refer to where I call it power of the pussy, A woman can know how to manipulate with her physical, is she so chooses, you know, and makeup filters lighting, they can do a lot.
These days we are no women. I've seen it too. Like movie sets and extra stuff. And there was this girl, and she said, oh the model and she was very plain and she had her book. Her pictures were amazing, right? Isn't it with makeup and they can really transform, but we can see her sitting there. She does look like the mouse. He is Guru average. Girl you did, you know, stole? Yeah. You know, it's amazing. What makeup and you know, and outfits, and hair extensions.
And he'll I say that about myself, too. I feel like there are some like, pictures that I've had up on my Instagram or Snapchat and it's what this generation will call their strap. Like, you know, you look good in that photo because you got the right angle, you got the right one, that's the makeup hair, all that stuff. You did all that, but then in real life, when you look at me like on an average day like that can't be the right game. So I don't even judge those event on that.
It's the first like, now trying to pull this men for money. Like what can I get out of this man? Can I get a car? Can I get a hell? Yeah, there are some women like that. So that's, that's my take on it. I'm kind of torn. Like if you're well, you know, I look at it, right? It comes down to if the guy knows what's all about. Like, for example, let's say I'm 80 years old and I'm a billionaire. I hit it big in the oil industry or whatever, right? Right?
And the oil features on the stock market and now I'm a billionaire. I'm 80 years old, and I marry someone who's 20 that looks like. Anna Nicole Smith, but do I really think that she's in love with me really? You know what I mean? Of course. Not buying her shit and you know, buying her. You know, that's again a Nicole Smith remarried that Howard Marshall, he was 80 years old in a wheelchair. You know there's certain words this completes plainly obvious, what the relationships are all
about. He's getting arm. Candy is 80 years old probably Every day above ground for him. He's happy, he's probably cool with video. You know what I mean? But when I see someone's like young and dumb guys, her, I'll tell you a funny story. So, there was this guy when I went to, when I was taking my team and most of the guys I took it with her pretty nerdy and this guy, he was amazing graphic designer but very nerdy and probably, I would even guess, probably a virgin Soul even in
his twenties. Right? Late twenties boat 25. Fish 25-ish, right? I'm guessing, right? So he meets a woman online and she asked him to come over because she's if she depart because they're partying and stuff. And it's a very straight-laced kid. He smoked weed, but I didn't do Coke or anything. And she said, oh if you bring Coke while we're going to have such a crazy party, blah, blah blah.
So he's phoning around everyone to finally, find someone who can get him, some all thinking, he's going to have this great hook up with this check. Yes, to the woman's house. She says nothing can just come on. In first thing she asked, you got the drugs, he pulls him out. Pulls him out. Two dudes, come over. They ignore him. They all do the drugs and ignore him until he feels so uncomfortable and leaves. You know, so there's like, that's an outrageous are.
All right, so that's just a pure, you know, sake. Say he thinks he's getting pussy, he's just getting ripped off, right? And he's lucky that I got beaten up. If he could have gotten together worse or robbed or, you know, search for stories like that. So when it's like this, like criminality, you know, it's pretty pretty like, obviously blatant. It goes both ways on both sexes. He say, you know, women and men car eat both be equally as scandalous, of course, right?
When I drink better married and even though they know that there's a wife at home, they're they're out for dinner with them, they're having drinks or hooking up at hotel rooms, you know, when they know that the guys married, right? So, When someone cheats on you, they they probably know about you, right? You know, but actually for my understanding I did get to meet the other woman from the first time. So you know, when when I divorced we went I think it was like nine years.
Finally. Yeah. After nine years. Yeah, her. And I decided to actually talk about things, which is crazy because like, for the longest time, my family was under the impression Martian. And I was to like, you know, I didn't like this, go like I was gonna fight her if I ever met her and it was just all those negative feelings, but it was finally us just talking about things, we're not friends, we're
not acquaintances. But we actually just sat and talked about a lot of the similar experiences that we went
through with him. And it was just, you could see it, you know, the narcissistic cycle that you went through with the same, obviously the interest will change now with her He was into his these certain things that he was an into a me Harry Potter. For instance, he thought Harry Potter was nerdy when I said I was into it but now all of a sudden this girl that he cheated on me with was into Harry Potter. So now he's the biggest Harry
Potter fan would like to change his change his spots for whoever he is with, you know, that's quite common. I heard because it's like the person you fall in love with his actually, a composite built on you, you know what I mean, they take pieces that things that you Like and you're finding important to them and then and it's like they create this, it's almost like call it like a Frankenstein character. You know, it feels like that. It does. What did he get closure talking to her?
Or did to hide? I did actually it was weird because a lot of people I got some criticism from family, calling it a weak moment of mine. I don't think so either. Honestly, I think I'm brave, you know. Yeah. Considering the fact that I was gonna like me and this girl Hey give my lips so I don't blame you though but yeah it's a lot of emotions right? It's a lot of like this is the person that helped fuck me over so to speak scuse me.
Yes that's how I felt like. But then I wanted her to see now like I've become so much of a stronger version of myself because of the stuff that I went through with her and my ex and I think she totally got, you know, that I am not even trying to fight about Him, you know, he's not even, you know, that's kind of some of the vibe that I stuck with but also the sense of closure in the sense that it she was a thorn in my side and he always me that, you know, that one that always got to me where
he knew that. If anything, he could always use her as like, a mental manipulation to make me feel less about myself. So, when I finally have the courage to speak to her and say, that I'm not mad about the past anymore, I forgiven it, I haven't forgotten it, but Forgiving and it's for myself. So I don't hold this resentment because resentments a poison you know, you let that sit stay in you that poison will just take you down.
You know it was absolutely it could eat away at you then it could make you in a moment of you know High emotionality. It can make you snap to right? Nick Cannon, you know so I wanted to let her know I wasn't on that type of energy, wasn't on that type of vibe anymore. That did those not make me and her friends or Acquaintances even.
And that was laid out clearly as well, but it let her know like, I, you know, you guys don't bother me anymore to that extent were like, I'm putting so much time and energy into hating you and him. Like, I felt like I could reinvest that energy into progressing myself into being a better version of myself, honestly, you know, like, you know, just say they create a wake of destruction of people that they met theft over sometimes it's business.
Partners and it's their own family, and course relationships. And usually, they're in there and ultimately their kids, their can eventually, we'll see through them and then they'll have, they won't have that relationship. One of the things I always say to some of them it's like, Well, in 30 years have fun at the old age home, you know, we can see you could think about all your victories and all your choices. You can sit there and the old
age home and no one visits you. And you can thump your chest of how you're the winner, right? And everyone else in the Luther because that's why ultimately Lee they end for them there, you're going to be isolated that Coach Lee. One of the tactics they use and no one's going to give a shit about them anymore, you know, because they burnt all those bridges and and you don't actually really have to do anything to them because they'll do it to themselves because
that's what they do, right? They burn Bridges and they hurt people. I really feel that I feel that that's true. That's not even my like you know the way you said like I don't even to do it this time in my aspiration for him but it's how I foresee things playing out for sure. You know, I feel like the best we could talk about Karma or Revenge the best Karma revenge for me was making myself more successful you know and putting all that energy into bringing him down.
It's almost like if I put all that energy into bringing him down then in a sense he still wins you know. So I mean they love to play the victim so abuse do. If they tend to do things publicly? I had an ex that was she was the Queen of the public, you know. Embarrassing. Oh my God, like he's in a crowded restaurant to be freaking out of the table. She would drive you. So not so finally, when you snapped, then people are looking at you like, are you crazy?
So then you realize playing their game. You then then then what happens? I do them both great. No, no no, I'm not. I'm not the crazy one and the more you try to convince people, you're not the crazy one, guess what you? If you're crazy, right? That's what I'm saying. The best thing to do is be the best version of yourself, they can't take that away from you and they try to that's the thing they try to when they can they
see you succeeding. You know ultimately living a better life than them in your especially with the kids, you know? Nice. Yeah. Touching on what you said. I feel like that's the satisfaction that they get the satisfaction of seeing your reaction you know. And and for me to go through this second time with no reaction, you know, I'm not going to Fight with this other woman, you can live your life with her and I live my own life. I think honestly, so to speak that hurt his ego more than
anything. Just the fact that I'm not out here with the other woman, the first woman, the one that I went to go actually meet after nine years and tried to just lay out my closure to me. She could take it and process it how she wants but I processed it my way and I know the good about how I closed that chapter but with her it was like this.
Post. So that was a crazy thing to like, she went up on this website which is like a bashing website and so the way that the narrative was written for the Post where they were talking about her made it seem like if I wrote it like definitely a scorned woman with the guy that she's with now you get what I mean so I don't know I never put that post up I wouldn't be surprised if even he did it, you
know what I mean? Like it's questionable like if he Actually, well they can be quite slippery. You know, it's funny. They could be quite yeah, slimy and they're there, nothing would surprise me, that's how I feel. And so now this post goes viral while they're dating and me and him. I just filed for divorce actually and so this post goes viral about her being a homewrecker. And so a lot of people in our town of Tucson - there's like a million of us in the city, so
it's like a little big town. Somebody can do somebody here. Yeah. And so, This post goes viral of her and people start talking shit about me. I'm like, wait a minute like they were probably like oh, the bitter baby. Mama that was an image. That I was given that our baby mama, the sport ex-wife. She did this. You know. So silly me was only like twenty three but I went on to defend myself from this and that just fell into it more.
I did take the bait, you know, and so now coming around this This second time with this same person and going through experiences like that it's like I don't even want to give you a reaction because that's the satisfaction you're looking for you know you know make you crazy then point the finger like this grandiose of that they are just so deserving and entitled to more of your feelings and the inconvenience you felt so not a big deal like what are you going on about?
So seriously You know, mother, we talk about that. My exes to call himself an onyx God and I was like, stop. Yes, that's like the love of narcissistic. Yeah, the grandiose always gets to me. Like they're trying to self-importance away. Then when you analyze, it's okay. What have you really done? That's besides talk about the great and I've been posting some interviews, like either, you probably don't know this person but in Canada, this is was Paul.
Bernardo was a serial killer in Canada, who, Ooh, dated a girl. He was 25. She was 17. He convinced her with her help together to murder her own sister. Like it's one of the worst serial killers in Canada. Like he's the he's the some monster and he was a serial rapist and stuff. He's a psychopath obviously but he's very on the narcissistic scale and there's a interview I posted on my podcast and it's important to see because he is like the the textbook
narcissist. He's Well put together he's very sitting there. He's very cool. He's very Collective. He's with seasoned homicide detectives and he's so compelling and so convincing he's telling the cops on you guys are the lies, he he control of the conversation and it's just talking circles around. These coffees are like seasoned homicide cops, but my point is it's like can you imagine being in a relationship with him anything you say he'll just you know, you'd this talk such Rolls
around you. And and then that's the Monstrous is that they, they can almost out. Talk anyone, they could talk their way out anything, like, I had a friend Kevin, why Mitchell, my podcast, he got caught breaking into a restaurant when it was closed and he did this. Sobbing cry, baby story to the cops that he was a starving and sorry for doing. And he only wanted a break even though he was looking for Booze, but he told the cops that, oh, I just wanted something to eat.
They felt sorry for him and drove him home. And then the next day they catch them again. Breaking then somewhere else but there's my point, right? Like the ability to manipulate his, you can underestimate them, so it takes you a while to get through.
So, when you're at 19, you know, you almost you can't be hard on yourself for how you reacted to them and all the buttons they got pushed because again, you know, these people are, you know, if you probably went back to all his girlfriend's, all the going back to his 15, they probably all have the same story. They probably do, you know what
I saw? Need to realize too, is like there was as girlfriend right before me, I won't drop her name, but she was like about two years older than me like a year or two older than me. And she was the girlfriend prior to me, so right before I got with him. So here I was like 19 and she's like 20 and she saw these pictures go up of the promise ring that he had given me. This is on MySpace and she comments And says that looks like the ring that you gave me can't be giving girls Downs.
So obviously liked young. Me is going to get flared up and I'm going to fight with him, you know. And yeah, the story to talk himself out of that, you know. Right. Right. Yeah always. He was always like that he could get caught cheating and there was still some way that it got flipped around to me and reading it and how dare you?
Yes, it was like that. How dare you look through my stuff like and I'm like, excuse See, like how do you do this with somebody, you know, and the thing that people ask I guess or don't understand is like, how do you allow yourself to go through all that, you know? And I think that they don't went until you're in that situation. You don't understand the complexity of how drawn in you are tall and I use it.
I use the analogy of salami slicing like two little tiny thin slices but eventually the whole salami sliced up, right. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's little pushes. Little Just the right direction, pushing your boundaries, a getting you to greet a little things. And now that's the standard gate agree to something. A little more than that's, you know, they made the good atmosphere. Yeah. Yeah. And it's not like overnight.
It's not like, you know, of course, if you meet someone who's a psycho and then all known all sudden, you know, the third day you get you they I'm mask and you realize, oh my God, this person crazy thing. That's the difference again typically with Psychopaths, they can't hold it together. As As long as a nurse's nurses can play long games and stuff. And what's even more interesting to i-it's fine with the
narcissist. And this is the difference between psychopaths psychopaths, usually their whole life is a disaster, you know, jobs they can't keep jobs or to get fired a lot or they can't keep relationships because their knots right there, explosive and and word, narcissist can hold it together. And they usually have one thing in their life. That that is going well. They might have a career job that they had for 20 years.
That they're excellent at it and but that is their pillar that they hide behind, but the rest of their life is complete disaster and gives you that doubt like, oh well, they seem to have it together. They seem to work at a good job. They can't be so bad, maybe he's going through a rough time. Maybe he is actually sorry, myself included I would make allowances I would make the excuses for them.
Yes I would I'm doing a lot of times you know, there would be parts of The relationship or I knew that if I open up to my family, it would create this image. And once your family, or even friends, get a negative image of the person you're seeing that stays of them, you know, just like do I really want to open up about what I'm going through?
Like they're going to tell me to leave him and I don't want to leave him, you know, it was things like that and I went through a lot of questioning and making up excuses for his behavior. And so finally I ask myself why, you know And then, that's when it all comes to an end, honestly, and some people never find the end. So I'm glad that I at least was able to to just take it for Gary because think about this were lot of times they tend to
indulge in substances, right? So, so imagine this you came out of it with like a heavy opiate addiction or alcohol addiction or something like that because they tend to like they tend to have some other Vice involved, usually it's sex or Drugs, alcohol, maybe. All of them may be gambling and then they usually try to get their partner involved in Antiques and they're not so bad, we're doing it together.
And that could really cloud things with and now you think oh well everything is shitty because we're both drinking. But no, it's not because you're being highly, manipulated and you're being poured, alcohol down your throat. Every chance you get, you know what I mean? Yeah, they're can do layers of it as well too. And I think that that's what's kind of like muddies, the water, so to speak. So yeah, I know it.
It's an-24 person has never been with a narcissist or a psychopath or, you know, Count Their blessing really risen. I was going to say consider yourself blessed. We know there's a long list of other relationships can go toxic right for variety of reasons. And sometimes when people are just like, oh that goes saying in the beginning, this podcast, some guys are too shitty at relationships. This is that it's not that they're mentally ill or they
have a personality disorder. They was, they just don't have the skills and they never applied themselves. Elves or they're not good listeners or you know what I mean. Like it's there's there's can be that and there's reasons why that were those relationships break down the person's, probably on the other side, just bored to death and not getting an attention, and they move on.
And usually those types of breakups are not, they're not brutally drawn out, but a narcissist, on the other hand, there's no breaking up. There's there's, there's war after you. You have to wage a war of Freedom after and that's the difference. That's the difference and Your freedom is sometimes comes at a very high cost and cuz of these people, right? So that's the difference that I think that what leads the scars on lot of people, right? Why don't we talk about your
podcast? Yeah, we can go to do that. So I went to the University of Arizona, I graduated there in 2013 with my degree. Bachelor's degree in journalism and I was able to have an internship or they will to get a few articles. Has published for our local newspaper here in Tucson. Thank you. But they weren't hiring they kept their senior writers and it was basically like your work shows a lot of promise but, you know, there's always the big guy.
Yeah. I love those a and so I was just getting a lot of closed doors with journalism at one point. I ended up flying out to Seattle to go meet the editor of the Seattle Times and he I had a conversation and he basically told me like we're not looking so much for written work as we
are in your digital story. Telling you told me digitized yourself like unfortunately we don't have any internships, I don't feel comfortable putting myself down as a reference since we just met my word of advice to you. Is to go out and digitize yourself. So I flew back to Tucson kind of a little distraught. Like I was kind of hoping for something to open up, you know I replied to a lot of different places and it was usually shut
down. So I came back to Tucson and was like, you know what, I'm going to talk about, what I want to talk about and I want to talk about stuff that I couldn't easily talk about growing up with anybody. But my mother she was a teen mom so she had the sex talk with me early and instead of writing things that editors wanted me to write because that's the articles that I've published for Honor editor, editorial Direction and review.
So it was it's my voice in the in the article in But that's crazy that they gave me, you know? Yeah and they threw the pitch is basically and I just I went with whatever pitches they threw. So I wanted to basically take control and talk about storytelling in my way and focus on the people that we tend to stereotype a lot. There's a lot of stigma and stereotypes about people that are sexual promiscuous. I grew up in a Catholic
background. So I went through like baptismal, communion catechism, all these things and all these Notions. I also grew up, I'm Mexican Americans. So we grew up with this sense of like machismo like a macho man, then you get the one that's the Gated you know to get this domesticated woman, you get the Macho Man you get like this whole sense of patriarchy, you get people that are loose and those like in Mexican terms are
called like boots. Witcher's, you get those you know you didn't want to be this immoral woman for any reason, so that kind of Drew me into more interest in telling their
stories. So I came back in 2017 a month after I talk to the editor in Seattle and I launched the podcast, I had done a little bit of podcasting, I had done like a few episodes in high school, where I learned initially, it was introduced it and I started to talk about sex dating and relationships, anything taboo, anything that we keep On the hush and that kind of played into the name, right? And it started off with me my ex. And then in next co-worker and a friend of mine.
So I wanted a different Spectrum, me and my ex run the relationship together. The other co-host was in an open marriage and then I had my friend on the show who is gay, so I wanted to. So that's how that started off. It started off with discussions right up in my mom's kitchen. Just okay. You know, like family, I'm going to record So, if you don't feel comfortable or whatever, like I'm gonna need some silence, here's take off. So I started recording right in my Mom's Kitchen.
The first few episodes of the podcast it was kind of wild from there because we were getting some pretty good reception from friends, you know, that had heard about it and we're like oh my God like I want to hear you know because it's one of those things where it's like you talked about it behind closed doors but now this is out in the open, you know. Like now you're talking about stuff that people don't always have the balls to say out loud, you know.
Criticizing those that don't want to come onto my pack podcast or don't speak openly. It's not that I'm just saying right now. If they wanted to be on the podcast, you know. So I have family honestly that supports it. But from a distance, they tell me they won't listen to the episodes because they know that it includes some of my sex life on there. But that was the thing to in order for me to build rapport with you. How am I going to have?
You talk about sex dating relationships, if I'm not even talking about what's going on in my own world right now? Of course, yes. Is a level privacy, especially if I'm dating somebody. I'm not going to go sure every little thing, but I want you to get a real genuine sense that these are unscripted, conversations topic ideas that we would throw out and just run with it as we recorded, you know. So that's how it started off.
Honestly. And then, as we started to grow beyond our little circle, other people in Tucson started finding out about the podcast. One of the co-hosts is reaching out to like musician, so we are bringing Ringing on musicians. And then I went even further myself and I would get music from different different artists, including some from like the UK, some here that we're local.
So we would put in the beginning, like music breaks, the we're branching out in different directions, we put like, musical and turn into missions and just making connections, right? And as we were doing that, my ex had brought up the idea of why not actually reach out to a porn star. He wouldn't I can get there, get there their reactions to things. So I started dming a lot of them, the dming them, and you're going to get some that don't even read it. Some it but don't reply and all
these like, yes. And I finally got this one. And she's the one, that was like my shoe. She owned a PR Company. Actually, she started off as a porn star, that shouldn't even entrepreneur owns a PR, right? You see, that's the thing too. You know, it was like we think of them just like, oh, she was in this hot scene but you don't see like some other human beings.
Rightly. Yes, human being, some of them have Ambitions that go beyond that in the sense of like entrepreneurships, these Stars own their own companies, you know, one of them owns, she was part of a coffee coffee companies. She has a copywriter. So it was just all these women that I grew up with And was told like you can't be like that. You shouldn't be like that but some more. Oh that's not God's way.
It's not the Catholic way. It's not the Mexican-American traitor and you're bad for talking about it but it's okay for them to sneak around and watch it, right? Yes. Right. It was a lot of things like that. And then there was a whole Catholicism itself, which is honestly where I play off of some of the themes. Like I have some episodes called kinky confessional while confessionals where you go into the confessional booth.
And you like you admit your sins to the priest but now you're admitting your sins to me. I had to break away from a lot of what I knew in order to have these conversations. So I always tease myself as being like the Heathen of my family because you know there's some people that are there was all these conversations where I was like why are we not having this though? Like you obviously had kids? My grandmother had like six kids. Thank you, don't mean big families.
So it's like, you know, they had to make something takes a lot of work to make six kids. So I branched into talking to porn stars, sex workers, strippers people from people, from my town that made music if you wanted to talk sex and I promote your music, we did like a cross promotional thing for
for a while. I talked to some comedians, I talked to people that created dating apps, I talked to different entrepreneurs, that word, Doing like sex subscription boxes, you know, and different things like that. So I branched out and decided to have these conversations. And in a sense, I felt like I was applying my journalistic skills to it, you know. So, in a way, I kind of see it
as journalism. It's not hard news, but somebody's heart out, they're not so bad, sexual innuendos and puns and Those are the things that I couldn't say openly though. I couldn't like, I would joke, I still can't have a joke like that to lose day was certain family members, you know, some some don't know about the podcast and even if they were I would not hide it but it was these conversations. That why are we hiding from it?
Anyway. Yeah, you know like and that's where all of that stem from and honestly started off as just a passion project like I want to go open the doors to journalism. Do some digital storytelling. Tell the stories of these people that always We get stigmatized and stereotype and let's break that. And let's analyze what their life is really like. It's cool and that's amazing. It is funny. Because again, I don't really touch on anything sexual and my podcast.
But, however, being true crime, I get, I get a report on serial killers and different monsters and people look at me weird. Why would you want to waste your time or energy on that stuff? The looks in their eyes. Whoa, like you don't even like it. So yeah, I get it too. Spectrum of reactions, right? And we got us. Yes. I feel like you're gonna get that in both of our genres on it. Yeah, I was watching the Netflix special with the Jeffrey Dahmer. Yes Dahmer. Did he what was it?
That did not flip. So yeah, that was actually really good. It was really a lot of research on Dahmer. I've done a lot of like and I found they did the writing. They did a pretty good job and one thing I liked about that show was or Isn't a lot of dialogue, but you felt every scene if that makes sense. Yes, very quiet. Moving this. His whole demeanor and yeah, he was creepy. He was definitely not a narcissist. He had no charm but yeah, definitely on the site on the
psychopath. You know, this for me, the draw was the storytelling us-backed of it, you know.
And and I'm always I've always been interested in like how people think late or their their intentions or Because I go again at the end of the day, if it's even the most complex thing in the universe, in my opinion, I agree, you know, I think psychology just in general intrigues, me, and to hear the psychological aspects, whether it be a True Crime Story or whether it be a porn star, sharing what she's going through, you know, or anything along those lines.
I love like, exploring the mindset. But yeah, if you want to do this again I'd love to like we could like once a month or something if you want. Yeah, I'd be open to doing that. I'm usually free on Sundays and my schedule so I'm sure we could work something out again. Sorry if I talk to are off but I don't know what you're talking about. So much stuff, right?
There's a lot of crossover. Well, you have a good night to take care of it. But yeah, if you want to do this again I'd love to like we could like once a month or something if you want. Yeah, I'd be open to doing that. I'm usually free on Sundays and my schedule so I'm sure we could work something out again. Sorry if I talk to are off but I don't know what you're talking about. So much stuff, right? There's a lot of crossover. Well, you have a good night to take care of it.