Episode 94: In-Season Cross-Training

Hello everyone, this is your co-host, Marissa Schaefer, and welcome to this 94th episode of Dance Well Podcast. A common theme of Dance Well in the last five seasons is to discuss cross training and Iterations. In fact, our curated topics for dance while in your classroom has an entire list of episodes on cross training with episodes 28, fit to dance, number 70, plyometrics, number 40, performance enhancement, number four, personal training for dancers, and so on and so on.

So I thought it would be fitting if we explored how a full progressive cross-training program worked in the context of one company's rehearsal schedule leading up to an

Enter Alvin Ailey, American Dance Theater, and the almost full cast of characters who made this happen. For context, I'm going to give you a brief rundown of what our training looked like so you can better follow our training. Over the course of the pandemic, A dancers had the chance to cross-train at work to get them back into dancing shape after.

We had several iterations of cross training as you'll hear in this episode. So first when the dancers returned to the studios from the COVID 19 shutdown in September of 2020, they had a glorious five weeks of training daily with no additional rehearsals. following their training period, they had several weeks of rehearsals to prepare them for.

The same was repeated in February of 2021 as they came back from another longer than usual break. During those two five-week periods, they had classes in yoga, meditation, mindfulness, gyrotonic, floor bar, bodyweight conditioning, cardio, ballet. For three hours daily. As an in-house team, we performed preseason screening to make sure that we tailored the initial intensity of each program to the dancers' fitness levels and that those who needed it were referred to supporting.

Additionally, we met as a team weekly to make sure training was both progressive and that we left. But when we got to our third round of cross training, things took a slightly This time, we only had classes in yoga, mindfulness, and conditioning, and they would be taught by others besides the Ailey staff. And additionally, those classes would take place prior to the start of rehearsal so that dancers had both cross-training and rehearsal.

Day. So I'll end my description there and just say that I'm incredibly honored to be a part of this awesome team. For those of you who know me, you know that bringing cross-training to the dance community is something I've been passionate. So to see a robust cross-training program brought to fruition within the context of a dance company season made me one happy and very hopeful.

So I want to say again thank you to Matthew Rushing, the associate artistic director of Alvin Ailey, for being so bold and forward thinking and for really truly making down. I also want to say thank you to everyone else in this episode who made this program a reality. Dr. Shea Ojafeitimi, Head of Therapy Services at Alvinalee, and Antoine Simmons and Andrew Schaefer are awesome trainers and the many, many others. podcast. We could not have done this without you. I hope you enjoy this episode.

Coach Dance and Perform Psychological. Hi. Hello. This is Ellie Kushner. And this is Marissa Schaefer from Dancewell Podcast. Hi everyone, thanks for being here. Let's start real quick by having everyone introduce yourself. Shay, uh, I'll have you start. Hello, I am Dr. Sheo Joseph Teamy, and I am the Director of Therapy Services at Albany Lee American Dance Theatre. Andrew. I'm Andrew Schaefer. I'm a personal trainer and strength and conditioning coach in New York City.

Matthew Hello, my name is Matthew Rushing. I'm the Associate Artistic Director for the Alvin Daly American Dance Theater. Excellent. And Antoine. Hi, my name's Antoine Simmons. I'm a strength and conditioning coach.

Awesome. Okay, so as you all know, we are going to be talking about the cross-training and conditioning that we So I wanted to kind of start a little bit with you know why? Why did this happen? So Matthew, if you wouldn't mind starting us out with just giving us a quick overview of why you wanted to bring in this kind of additional training to the dancers at Ailey. Wow. rehearsing you could see that because they don't have complete

Focus um and a certain amount of energy. And so those different levels and also So it was basically the inconsistency of time that we had to prepare and also seeing the dancers still And you so I know we I say training and cross training a couple of times, but what specifically did you decide to bring into the Well a little bit of uh what we had already kind of structured.

You and Dr. Shay and adding the um we always started So before we just start So I I think what we had already established was very was very supportive for the dancers and and worked really well, but it was considered Control we need it to go a little step higher. note that yeah, City Center Special Olympics because we hadn't had an in person season for or performance or consistent performances.

So there was a lot of weight. Um I think also you'd mentioned you know the different iterations that we had done within Ailey of the training. Um would Yeah, so you know, as you guys said, the extra special Olympics was so true. But it's been an extra special season, extra extra special two years. with this in the amount of time that we've both been a part of the organization. Um the dancers at least the first company had never ever had more than four weeks.

And even that wasn't, you know, enough for them to recover based on what their traveling schedule would be, what their city center season would look like. So to have set where they not only just didn't dance, but they literally could not travel the world and go get other gigs and you know where you lived and what you had access to could not get into the gym to maintain their bodies and their mental health the way they had been trained to do many of them since they were teens.

Was really jolting. And um, and you know, you and I, Marissa, we had the conversation in terms of the students about our fear. And you know, being so excited to be So that kind of built the need to say we Before, but we need to recreate our assessment and be creative and do it virtually and get an idea of what shape these dancers are in. Because everyone was telling us, yeah, I've been working out at home, I've been doing this.

In their head What we heard, we did not think that people would be too far off, that we would just kind of need a little, a little jolt, a little, you know, extra poof and then we get it. literally had to revisit and pull back on everything we planned on. This again when they said unprecedented literally So understanding that everyone, you know, even when you come back into the studio, we're excited that they're excited to come back into the studio, but there is their fear. COVID

Am I going to catch COVID? How many people had lost family members? How many people themselves had had COVID? What did it do to their system? All of those fears. Of the mental aspect that the dancers were going through and the not feeling ready to be in any kind of space. So I think it was small. of the company to actually just say, come in and we're just gonna have conditioning. So for three hours a day, you're just gonna come in and all we're gonna do is exercise

Meditate, and then you get to go home. And we're going to do this for what did we do for three weeks or was it five weeks initially? Yeah. Never ever ever in the history, 20 years I've been here, has that ever happened. And I and I was teasing. And I said, I have prayed for years that you guys would get. Three months off paid.

But injuries healed. There were people who were struggling with things that we could not get rid of for a year. And when they came back, it was gone. So yes, we had the positive. But then we now had to deal with the reality of okay these are athletes who need to come back and you need

kind of rest slowly build a program that you can evaluate and say, how are they responding at this level? If they're fine at this level, then can we put another layer on top, which is what the organization So they went from just three days, um, three hours a day, five days a week of conditioning, to now so after five weeks adding rehearsals and Then kind of just layering on top of that in preparation for a virtual season. Yeah.

It was incredible to kind of watch from my end the first I mean all th all three times, right? So we had three of The first one being the the most gentle, so to speak, and right, people having the privacy of their own homes to kind. Which I think in some cases felt very foreign to individuals. And then the second iteration of five weeks. February to March of 2021. We started playing with the idea of

building intensity and building volume and building, you know, within our sessions. Um and and I think it's important to note just for our listeners to get a kind of idea of what we were dealing with in the first two the five weeks leading up to City Center. We had, you know, body weight conditions We had We had um cardio. We had ballet and modern Meditation, yeah. Um, so they really I mean, if if one thing wasn't for one person

that we at least got s a couple other things to kinda cater to, you know, all aspects. And I think within that, you know, we we start I mean, we were not directly having um group therapy sessions, but there was some room um, you know, some for for a little bit of mindfulness and getting back into their bodies. Um, but I think at this point, Andrew and Antoine, would you tell us about what you guys brought to the table for the five weeks leading up to City Center?

Antoine. Well, um, you know, when when uh Andrew sort of first uh approached me and told me that this was something that was gonna be on the table We sort of decided that it would be important to do a lot of digging. do a lot of research and try to figure out uh What are the most sort of common injuries and deficiencies that are present in dance? You know, where are where are the dancers most vulnerable? What what do they need to strengthen above all other?

And so we spent a lot of time, you know, just doing research, looking at people who had spent a lot more time than we did doing the research to try to figure this out. And we really thought that um There was enough information and enough evidence out there to compile a program that would be really effective, uh, you know.

even in the span of five weeks at sort of attacking and addressing some of those deficiencies and issues. So we, you know Our our main three sort of goals were this sort of neuromuscular re education, something that we sort of hammered them on and talked to them about constantly and we really

Andrew and I, I think, really made a point to to think about teaching, okay, and informing and sort of re-educating these movements and these movement patterns and these ideas that they had about their bodies. And then we really thought, um, you know, given some of the injury rates and the ankle and the knee that we should focus on strengthening the legs. Um, and so we really that was another area that we really sort of focused on and

Um and then Andrew, if you could help me out. I I I I'm sort of blanking on that last one that we had. Well we were doing uh we wanted conditioning, right? So we wanted to start that a certain level of intensity and then build that pretty much linearly up until the last uh the second to last week and then taper them, you know, to give them basically yeah the card. Going into city center and plus we also tried to add in a little bit of

session because we knew that was important to Ailey and we wanted to yeah uh hook into that as well. So those were our sort of I guess four You two were the only alien

Lands and by that I mean you two I mean up until those five weeks to City Center, we had pulled from the resources within the building, so to speak, for Or conditioning. Um, Shay, I'm gonna get to you in in two seconds. Um, but you all were the first people from So Shay, I wanna get to you, but I also want you to to answer how you felt like you got to know what we were doing inside the building and how that informed your training. But Shay, you go first.

I wanted to say how important it was that we needed to have outside aliens come into the it to the to our planet because I know for me, I've I felt like mother and big sister would not be. And we could tell them, yeah, yeah, yeah. And we had gotten to a point that we'd been there with the relationship, like we people would come to us and they would learn. That we had told them how to do, when to do, and they will act like it was a whole new thing. So we knew at this point.

But if you bring in new people, especially certified trainers and the they would be like oh oh side eye but okay we'll see and it worked it worked because the feedback was I don't But I know they're good for me. And I was just like Because they still did the work versus if we were telling them to do the work, I felt like we would have been begging and pulling teeth and people would have been huffing. They would have shown up like, oh yeah.

So well yes, we needed to bring in new aliens to the alien family. Antoine, do you want to say something about that? Sure, yeah. I mean, you know, it was uh I think the first with these consummate professionals, you know, like I I who who I thought um I thought the way we were received and accepted and and how I thought that the dancers were with

we were able to sort of address their needs, I think better than we would have were they And I think just being able to be in their space during rehearsals and Andrew went to a ballet class and just having them see us there and interacting with them I think was so it was so great and I think like I said it made everything more effective and I think um you know having you know Andrew's like I think so

Yeah, I think I can jump in on that and that, you know, we had a lot of conversations the whole time, Antoine and I about our communication with them. Like how did we feel we did we feel like we were giving them the space that they needed to talk to us and let us know what their needs were and then were we able to find the right way

And make clear why we were looking for it. We we we did we spent a lot of time thinking about how do we communicate why we're asking them to do things. And so I think that was that was pivotal, you know, to to be able Just think about and purposely go after that two-way exchange. such a very sensitive time um mentally.

pushing you physically and you know that affects you mentally. Um I was really impressed of how balanced their methods were. Like the only way that we're gonna get better is that you're gonna have to push yourself. And I felt that they they really understood that balance.

And it was literally, can you believe Antoine just said you could either just lay, I mean you could just lay there, but you would, I mean, but the work that I'm asking you to do is this. Could you believe he said that? And I had to just get That was the response, the feedback I got. But they did it. And then in the same While transferring in class, being able to fully access their leg and connecting through their body was so much easier.

Yeah, I think, you know, kind of going on that, like you two, Andrew and Antoine, were the greatest departure from like the And so and then the movements you gave were so like I mean you I know you two did the best that you could to

bring it back to dance. But like Shay and I would be like, like when you're doing that move in Lazarus and da-da-da-da-da, like direct connection, which like you two, I made an incredible effort to get to know the repertoire. I know Antoine, you came to rehearsals, Andrew, you But you didn't quite have that and it also wasn't super sexy or like right, I think like like this kind of body weight conditioning is is not as sexy as as other forms of cross training can be

And so I think A leaving room for communication was great, but then to Shay's point, like hearing what people saying like the the it was like creating new synaptic pathways in their brain, right? People didn't quite recognize all the time like what it was doing for them, like in the in the studio. Until like they were processing on the table.

And then they're like, wait, hold, hold on. My knees haven't hurt. Right. Or like, hold on, da-da-da. I was like, Did you write that on your feedback form for Andrew and Antoine? And they're like, no. And I'm like, You know, so it was it was like a slower it was a slower process. Go ahead, Shay.

I feel like I've given testimonials. I was somebody I had to, I literally tracked them down. It's like I haven't seen you in PT. I need to ask you about your hip. And just turned around and said, to be honest, since we've been doing conditioning, I have I am able to walk back and forth everywhere. I don't even notice I have a problem anymore.

leave that alone. He's like, and weeks later, after conditioning was over, he was one that as actually was still using the program that you guys sent, the maintenance, he still used Yeah, uh well I wanted to say, you know, so Antoine did a lot of research. and covered a lot of the information that's out there. And so what was good about that is we went in and we had plenty of confidence, right? We knew that what we had designed would work. And we just needed to let it play.

So that was you know, that was we did well, maybe, and that as Matthew was talking about walking that line, you know, we had the confidence, we knew what we were doing was the right thing and we knew it would work and we knew we just needed So that allowed us to sort of stay the course while also being sensitive to the feedback we were getting, you know, and yeah, and make those yeah, make the experience good.

Yeah, to Andrew's point, we talked so many tim you know, he as he said, we spoke after every What do we need to change? And so many times we're like, look, this is this we we're doing the right thing. Like we don't need to change anything. Let's just focus on what we're doing, okay? While being sensitive. But still staying firm to what we knew would work. And I just thought, like, so many times when he said that, we would be sitting.

We're on the right track. Yeah. We're doing the right thing. Let's just let's not go too crazy. Matthew. I really can't articulate The program they they created went across the board, all different body types, all different temperaments.

because these are professionals that have different tweaks and different things in their bodies. Some people have injuries that they've had for over, you know, five years or something. And some people are just coming into new injuries. So I thought that was really impressive too.

you said a keyword, time. None of this, and this is good, this goes back to the whole dance medicine, dancers are athletes. There is no magic pill. And the work takes time. For some reason, it is clear. They understand that when it comes to dance. But when it comes to anything, exercise, health, and wellness. And what we had was five To push and to make the results have time to show. Anyone who's going to create a program, if you don't have the time, don't bother.

Because they will lose you can do a great program in a solid week. muscular re-education and actually implemented into your body. Takes weeks for your body to understand the new um motor patterns that you're developing, the new strength. With that new strength. And that's what we had. We had that five weeks. Six weeks would have been.

Awesome, but in five weeks when you're dealing with professionals, you can get them to that point where they go, I don't ever want to go back to where we win was and I know how to stay here now. Matthew. part of it having Karin with the Conscious Comeback the uh title Conscious Comeback is a title she came up with uh for her uh program and it's bas I felt um they both Conditioning, it wasn't just a physical thing. Like they said, we started off the strengthening and conditioning. Approach fit.

conversations and and getting the feedback. And on the other end, Karim also had a lot of the breathing and we had discussions, but also part of that was yoga. So we were still physically Yeah, uh yeah, I'd like to comment on that too,'cause that was something I noticed being in the building. I felt like there were a lot of different parts and pieces to Alvin Ailey. There's the dance and there's the PT and there's the conditioning.

There's a culture that's And all that these all of these pieces are tied together and I I felt that that was there, that that was in place. And so I think it made it easier in a way for us to kind of come in and plug in in the place where we thought it would make sense. Um, so you know, I thought that that's pretty exciting. And, you know, it's interesting to see that development. uh within the organization. That's that's really cool. So five weeks we know that that's not enough time to see

gains. Um and I'm just I think that you guys did a tremendous job with the neuromotor control aspect of it and the other just like muscular fitness and you know condition.

imagine what would happen if you guys had enough time to really I think um, you know, where I wanna push this is for a second I wanna talk a little bit about logistics, like how did Within the day. Um, and then kind of piece apart, you know, obviously we were talking about what worked, like what I also want to know what didn't work. So we'll talk about that in a second, but logistically speaking, I think it's important.

This was a mandatory part of the dancer's day. Um, it happened before rehearsal. It happened before class. I think one of the things that dancers were

worried about is are we gonna even have enough energy to make it through the day? Um, so Matthew, could you speak a little bit to um, you know, what you were hearing and Shea You know, what dancers were saying regarding being able to make it through rehearsals and how they watched I did there was a moment where the dancers were extremely fatigued but At that moment of extreme fatigue, then the conditioning kind of eased. You weren't so physical and weren't going so It was difficult I feel

They were that at that point, they were actually getting back into their bodies. So the fatigue was there, it was a real thing, but also. It's a good thing. think about a different way of schedule. There has to be more time for everything. Uh just period. I don't know how that's gonna happen financially, but if you want the if you want certain results, you're just We had to take away from rehearsal time to incorporate conditioning. Rehearsal time, but look at the same thing.

Point you just have to say that we're you're doing the right thing. Just keep going. Yeah, it looks like okay, you're not gonna have enough time. Oh, okay, you don't have enough time, but still. Real and you have to find more time. I can speak to kind of some of the feedback that you

conditioning, then class, then a full day of rehearsals. And I think in the beginning, and Matthew can correct me, in the beginning I didn't high yell, you know, like even graded and to okay we're just marking through this i want you guys to listen to the music find your spacing understand the steps start getting the movement back into your body and that gave um andrew and

they needed to start kind of building up. When the two of them started kind of like meeting up and then, you know, it it's kind of like they got to a point, but they One went down and one kinda kept going up. So you know conditions I don't want to say wane or kinda go down, but it's like they they switched their the focus was beginning to switch because now some you know, whatever goals had been achieved so that they

Really focusing on nuances. It was at that point that I remember having a conversation with one of the ladies who. And she was afraid'cause we there was one of those, you know, she was like, We just did all this stuff and conditioning and all these lunges and I don't know. I I've gotta do this and that and it it's all me. And I remember She said, I and I didn't realize I could jump that high. So at some point in the struggle, it actually started to work.

Now the strength, the power, or whether it's just the connection that they were looking for was starting to make rehearsals easier. The amount of effort that they had anticipated. They were finding that they weren't so exhausted when they actually did the piece. So then they were more open to going, oh yes, I'm yeah, I'm coming to conditioning tomorrow. Antoine. I think it's a good one. Interesting point. You know, we had sort of gone into it and we always knew we'd taper off.

Off, but I think you know, when you talk about logistics, probably it could have been even better. I think, were we more privileged. I think we could have planned it even better. And probably, you know, again to Shay's point, that sort of crescendo, right, where we sort of meet at the top but then we sort of let go and and let rehearsal sort of take over the intensity, if that were planned better. Um so I I do think you know talking about tapering is super important.

But I d also think like a a stronger coordination What's rehearsal gonna look like as far as intensity goes? And quantifying that for us, you know, from a conditioning standpoint, I think would again.

That being said, so what what else in your dream world would you have had anyone and everyone to have made this, you know, even better than it already was? Besides time. Yes, Antoine? So again, you know, to better I think just more integration, you know, better coordination. If we were able to just communicate more as a team, you know, with the rehearsal directors, with understanding like what Probably number one. And then number two, in a in a dream scenario, you know, we'd have more equipment.

You know, I I you know, we'd have more uh you know, equipment to to to work with them on, you know, their cardiovascular But I I think um you know those two things b the first thing being sort of again communication and integration, uh and then the second thing

Those are good. I think um we did that in the Remember Matthew, of of conditioning where once a week we had like a twenty-minute, thirty-minute debriefing to say, okay, this is what's working, this is what's not working, here's, you know, we're concerned about this person, like here's how we're gonna re- That was very helpful. I felt really worked because all throughout rehearsals I saw every All through city center. Everybody kept their and because it was so easy to travel with.

program, I think it really um it was really I feel like it's something that helped it stick because it was simple and it was accessible. and have my whole program done with these bands. And I think that's actually I was about to say that's a strength of the program because if they had used equipment, they would literally would have said, well, I can't do any of my exercises because I don't have the equipment.

So now you don't have an excuse. Like you and and for and for anybody listening, you don't, this was not a big budget. It was not a big budget. Literally, you have money to buy some 12-inch therabands and stuff. That's what they use. So bare bones, anybody can do this. So my dream scenario.

Just said because I feel like what we're really talking about is periodization. We're talking about needing time to do different things at different So I agree the bands and giving them, you know, the neuromuscular education and then sending them off with the ability to continue to do that stuff is gonna be super important for them.

in general, but I also think that they could use some real strength training. You know, if they if they all got their spaceline strength level boosted, I think they'd be amazed. the difference that they feel in their bodies. But as we're discussing, right, it's you can't do it all, you know, at one time because there's just too much going on. It would be too much for them and too much for us.

So my dream scenario, yeah, is to sort of to sort of work with the dancers over that longer period of time. emphasizing different aspects of what they need in those in those correct times so that it can all fit together in a way that maximally benefits them. That's that's my dream. Yeah. Yeah, no logistically it's tough, right? You the three of us, and by the three of us I mean Andrew and Antoine and I were like, Okay, cool. If you guys went to my and put them into a new...

then drove them all the way down to Ailey and then how long could we leave them there and would it be a bur you know like logistically it was tough and and uh you did do a great job actually. We almost did that. We were going to do it and then we and then we decided, you know, sort of at the end after we'd been there.

actually. I mean I think we were planning to do that even three weeks into the program and then we just, you know, as we were seeing how everything was unfolding, we just decided it wouldn't have been it wouldn't have been worth it really. It wouldn't have been in their best interest probably. So we but we almost did it. So you guys had therabands and um half inch and f and one inch super bands to be clear. Yeah. Uh Shay, go ahead.

Just wanted to piggyback off what Andrew was saying. So Andrew, what you're asking for when you said periodization, you mean a preseason when all they do is come in and do nothing but actually get ready for the season? Sorry that I'm so mad that this is a podcast and y'all can't see my facial expression right now.

It seems like maybe you've mentioned this before. It's like the the mean treating dancers like they were athletes, like every other athlete gets treated, so that they actually get built up to meet the demands that they one. And that was something Andrew and I talked about a ton, you know, just sort of what would what could we do? Oh my goodness. What could we do if we had a year?

To work with these dancers. Like we were I mean we would be we say you know we would just again in these conversations where we're sort of doubting are we doing you know is this is this enough or do we need to do more are we doing the right thing and and you know where we of course ultimately come to the conclusion

We need more time. We need more time. You know, to Matthew's point. We're like, Oh, we we need more time. But no no no, five weeks, five we can do it in five weeks. Oh, but we need more time. You know, it's like this conversation we continually have. It's like, no no, five weeks we can we You know, it it was it's it's just funny to think, but you know, we got it done in five weeks, I think. You know, we we got what we want. Also, I left that part out.

Yeah, I mean you know, and yeah, just to just to reiterate it's it's time but it's also it's about training them for the right things in the right moment. 'Cause you you know, you don't wanna as I'm sure it's clear to the dancers and you know and everyone at Ailey, you know, you can't hit them with everything that they need all just overwhelm them, right? So it's about it's about you know divvying it out in the portions that they can handle and then that builds

know that's the that's the beauty of of strength training and conditioning. That's what I think Antoine and I both love. You know, that building something over time.

up and goes to Matthew's point to say we have to do things differently. Something's gotta give. Or the way we look at dance, we've always done it this way. They come in and they rehearse, and you keep pushing and pushing, something's gotta change.

And big props to Matthew, by the way, you know, because to to do this, to take this leap of And to bring Andrew and I, outsiders, into that space, I I just think, you know, I I just, you know, kudos to you for for you know doing the confidence in sort of your decision making and the the realization Seriously. to do it with all the size. And the naysayers. And that we don't have time for this. And it's not in the budget.

That's the part y'all don't know. So it can, and he did it with that. That means to anybody listening, if you are the associate artistic director, artistic or whatever, whoever you are that you're pushing for this. Well, at least initially that is. I think like any major change is hard, right? And we've we have seen that this year. This year was just one big cluster of major change. But I think, you know

to the points that we all made earlier. Like, yeah, sure, they're gonna give you side eye and not like you. But like, let's look at what has already started to happen and the change. Which is that people's knees aren't hurting. his he was okay, right? Like we we saw not that many time loss injuries in the grand scheme of things. Like there are things that are working and it's gonna be uncomfortable at the beginning, but like, you know, we'll keep making the change.

which. Andrew, did you have something you want to say? I did. I wanted to say that while we are, you know, uh doling out props, uh, Shay and Marissa, you both also, you know, I know you've been But Shay, you've been there for twenty years, you said, and saying these things, you know, and you've been spending a You know, and then together as well, trying to, you know, add new things and build on the programming that is in Ailey. And as I said earlier, when we got there, we could see that.

Was this this culture there of having a lot of different pieces that were connected to each other, you know, and that and that that's something that's a little bit of a little bit of Something was already in the works and it's continuing to grow. And then yeah, Matthew, you know, Matthew, I agree, you know, having the courage to push that even more um because you believe in it, you know, that really is

That's great. It's amazing. You know, it's it's leadership, you know, and I was really impressed. Um, but you know, I think all three of you have done a lot of work to sort of make this a part of what Alvin Ailey is. can see it and so yeah kudos to all three of you so thank you andrew um and thank you So we made space for this this year because we were coming back from, you know, being off for seven months and we there were unprecedented

But I guess, you know, I in the dance medic science and medicine world, you know, Shay and I know this. Like this is this is a dream, right? Of having this kind of stuff integrated. But I'm interested like

We made the push now, we made it happen now, but is this something that should continue in the future and you know, and and how does that have a place? Um my uh my answer would be yes, but I kinda wanna hear the rest of you talk too. In Matthew, go ahead. And yeah, just to take One of my favorite sayings is all pride.

No matter what sort of in the way of any of this, there's a solution to it. And there's a we can find whatever that solution might be, and it might take time, and I do think it will take planning. But yeah, I do think again there's a solution to every problem. So I don't see personally why it couldn't continue. Um, but you know, that's not for me to say. I don't know. This needs to be the main dish. And that no no this needs

In fact. You're just alone. You need it it it it has to be on the plate. And maybe but whatever portion we can get right now we wanted. we get the full portion on the plate. And some companies are able to put the full portion on the plate right away. Maybe So start with that. Leave it to Shay to bring home the metaphor. That was good. Um Andrew and then Matthew.

Yeah, I I would say yeah, you know, I I completely agree. The communication part is interesting. What I would add to that conversation You know, what gets what gets me excited as a as a trainer is these opportunities to do something new, to have to on our end look at, okay, you know, what's the realities of the organization or the person or whatever that we're gonna work with and how do we make this work for them? And that's where we get to be creative, right?

As Antoine was saying, find solutions, find ways to deliver what needs to be delivered based on, you know, on on what we have to work with. Um so you know, I I get excited about that kind of thing. So I think my positive view on that idea of like, yeah, communication, you know, let's talk and see see what the solutions are and get creative. A little a little extension to what Andrew said

For me, this was like a post mortem. I hate that word, but you know, it was like listening to, okay, you know, you know, what were our takeaways? Where did we where where did we excel? Away from listening to everybody in the conversations, but you also have to, you can't do ballet shoes and pick up the thoroughbans. Like you're really gonna have to overlap and you know really If we would have just stayed in what how dance usually operates, most of most of our conditions

would tell people, oh I don't need to go to a gym, I take class. But now we're finding out we need other worlds to cross and and combine and we have to have conversations. Um this was like being a part of a community like this has been my dream for close to a decade. So to have it realized, thank you, Matthew, for being the instigator of all this was really truly. me. Um and I I do hope that you know we can be a model for other

to do the same kind of thing or or schools, etc. Um, because in the words of Glenn Allen Sims, I think this was pretty major. So I I thank you all. And thank you all for sharing everything. On behalf of Ellie and myself, I, Marissa Schaefer, want to say thank you to all of our listeners. On this episode of Dancewell Podcast. Our intro soundscape was composed by the dynamic duo Brendan Berry and Dylanese, and dancer designer Katie Dean crafted our visual.

If you like what you hear, we invite you to go and leave us a review, rate us, subscribe to our show, and share your favorite episodes. You can also view all of our episodes and learn more about this podcast by visiting our website at www.dancewellpodcast.com. If you have questions or want to get in touch, email us at dancewellpodcast at gmail.com. Bye.