This is Dan Caplis and welcome to today's online podcast edition of The Dan Caplis Show. Please be sure to give us a five star rating if you'd be so kind, and to subscribe, download, and listen to the show every single day on your favorite podcast platform.
Hey, welcome to The Dan Caplis Show.
It's not me Dan, it's me George Brockler, also a two time buff undergrad and law school thrilled to be sitting in for Dan. He's actually doing what lawyers do, at least the good ones, and that is go to trial.
Lots of news going on today. I am honored.
I have heard this guy interviewed on Dan's show multiple times. I am thrilled to be able to talk to another former prosecutor of such great repute, and that is Andy McCarthy of National Review and a Fox News contributor, former federal guy out of the Southern District of New York.
Sir sir, thanks for joining.
Us, George. It's my pleasure.
I want to get to.
The biggest news of the last twenty four hours, and you're a guy from the Bronx, so you'll appreciate this.
Juan Soto, what happened there.
Well, you know, I have mixed feelings about this. Obviously, I'm thrilled that the Mets got such a good player, but kind of sad about what's happened to baseball. And as a as a lifelong Mets fan, I'm a little bit older than they are. I kind of like my old sort of lovable underdog Mets, and I think they've shed that, you know now that they're going to spend in the deep end of the pool with the you know, the big guys that kind of shed that identity.
Well, we'll have to touch base with you back when they're in the playoffs next year and see how you feel about that. Right there, I'll say this as a lifelong Yankees fan born on Staten Island, my dad grew up in the city. Screw you Mets fans, That's really how I feel, because I want the Juan Soto out there in right field, but that's not to be. So we'll have to figure out a way to get Judge on track for the postseason, because he's a killer in
the regular season. Nonetheless, let's get to the two big stories of the day if we could. And you're right there, you're at the epicenter man for both of these things, and that is Daniel Penny.
As you know, Daniel Penny.
Was the guy who's being prosecuted by the Manhattan DIA's office, I believe, for the death of a guy on a subway train. He was acquitted of all the lesser charges that the jury hadn't hung on. But what's your sense of all this stuff that's gone on out there, what's the feedback that you're seeing.
Well, it's really awful that they brought the case in the first place, because the guy was heroic. He intervened in a situation where it required some courage to do that against somebody who was not only menacing people on the train, but who we afterwards found out had a significant criminal record. It'd just come out of a Rikers Island after doing a stint for punching an old woman and in the face and breaking some bones in her face. So this is a bad guy. This was not an
abstract threat. This was very real. It was very real to the passengers on that train. And I think just by bringing a case like this under the circumstances that obtained the message to good people who are valorous and would be willing to intervene on behalf of vulnerable people is don't you dare or at least think twice about doing that? And that's a dangerous thing in a city of nine million people where we have fewer than thirty four thousand police, and most rhymes are committed with the
police not on the scene. So I think it's very irresponsible for Alvin Bragg, the progressive elected Democratic district attorney in Manhattan, to have brought the case, and he brought it in a really cynical way. Even if you think Penny should have been prosecuted, it's at most a negligent homicide case, but he brought it as mainly a reckless homicide or manslaughter case in order to try to improve
his odds of getting a conviction. And the other thing they did was to racialize it so that the prosecutors kept calling him, you know, the white man and the white defendant, under circumstances where race didn't have anything to do with it with it, there was no evidence that he was at all motivated by bigotry in any way, and many of the people that he protected on the train were black passengers who turned out to be some of the best witnesses in the case for him.
We're talking with Andrew McCarthy from National Review and Fox New's former big time federal prosecutor. Do you know the racial composition, Andy, of that jury that acquitted.
Him, I don't. I know that it was. I know that it was seven women and five I have men. I don't recall if I if I saw the racial composition at some point, I don't remember it. But I think it's important to note that, even though I'm saying that Bragg brought it it kind of racialized that I regard this, and maybe this is because, as you pointed out, I grew up in the Bronx and I'm you know,
I'm a New York City person. I regard this as ideological more than racial, in the sense that my experience as a prosecutor and as someone living in the city is that black people in general are not motivated or you know, persuaded any more than anyone else's by those kinds of arguments. But I think ideological lefties are, and that tends to be a very different racial makeup than you might think.
Last question on this before we move on to the murder of the United CEO Alvin now had already had an elevated profile beyond the Manhattan DIA's office as it normally would, based on his tortured prosecution of Donald Trump for those misdemeanors they stretched out into felonies to beat the statute of limitations. And now that there's this, now you grew up there.
Do you get the.
Sense in New York that the Manhattan DA's office has a tarnished reputation as a result of these things? Or do people just shrug and move on and go big apple?
You know, you have to. I found it was necessary to keep doing this in the case against against President Trump too, because people would look at that and may be really outraged by you know, what a farce it was. And I think what we have to remember is this is Manhattan. Alvin Bragg's political base got him elected there. He was not like someone who's appointed.
He was elected.
These races throughout the country, these DA races in these blue one party cities, you know, they tend to be small turnout affairs, and progressives mobilize and they get there, you know, they out spend the other side and they get their people in. But you know, Manhattan, even though there were improvements for Republicans in the out of boroughs in the In the recent election, I think Manhattan went sixty five percent or sixty five points rather for Harris.
She won Manhattan Bay sixty five points. And there was a pall about two weeks ago that said that Bragg was favored to be re elected. So I don't think we can we can say that the national judgment of what goes on in Manhattan is necessarily reflected in what Manhattanites think.
Shifting gears to the other big breaking news of the day and proving out a theorem that I've long held that beating in the chest of every IVY school graduate is the potential for a cold blooded murderer. Luigi Mangioni was grabbed up in Altoona, Pennsylvania in a McDonald's andy.
Didn't you go to an Ivy League school? Anyway?
I did. But you know, when you started to speak, I thought you were saying that you and me were going to be able to beat on somebody's chest.
For Luigi MANNGIONI give us your take on what's unfolded here and what's next.
Well, you know it's a radical leftist Apparently, as we speak unless i've unless something's changed that. I don't think he's been charged at this point, but it's certainly, you know, all indications are that he will be according to the reporting. I think the left obviously has a violence problem. All kidding aside about the IVY League in the campus in the United States, the campus has a problem. I did terrorism cases back in the nineties. Almost every radical movement
of consequence begins on the campus. I mean that just it seems to be a commonality when you look at radical groups. That's where those ideas incubate. And I think when you ask what happens next to me, what would be interesting is whether the federal prosecutors at my old haunts in the Southern District of New York are trying to think about whether there's a federal theory of charging this guy in order to get the case away from Bragg.
You know, the question is can Bragg be trusted to do a case against a radical leftist who apparently, you know, took direct action, as they like to say, against somebody from the oppressor class.
You bring up a great point, and that is whether or not there's a federal hook here. I'd love to know your thoughts on that, but for another reason too, not just to get it away from a highly politicized district attorney's office. And I think we've seen that with these last two cases. But there's no death penalty in New York. I think you guys had it for a cup of coffee in the nineties or something like that.
But is there a hook for the Feds?
And if there were, is there a capital aggravator that would exist here?
I don't think it would be a capital case. What I've looked at is the Travel Act, which you see in a lot of organized crime cases, where it's basically if somebody travels or otherwise uses facilities in interstate commerce because you have to have a federal jurisdictional hook, and then commits a crime of violence, including murder, with the intention of furthering another crime, like like a Rico conspiracy
or something like that. If death results, the maximum penalty is any term of years or life, which is a very significant penalty and probably would exceed what you would get in New York. The thing is, as you can tell the way I describe it, my default setting is that murder is a state crime and it ought to be handled by the state and these federal cases. You know, I had a I had an attempted murder case one time where the jury hung them. Is a terrible case.
And when we talked to them afterwards, one of the things that puzzled them was why on earth we were talking about interstate commerce when you know a guy would put on try to murder a police officer. So you know, it's complicated to do these federal cases, and it would be a lot more straightforward and probably a lot better if you could just trust that the DA would do his job.
But yeah, mend that.
Andrew McCarthy, joy talking you man. Honored to talk with you. I hope I get a chance to do it again. Thank you so much for your time.
Thanks Jrege, it was my pleasure.
Hey, listen, we're going to come back from this. What did you hear there from Andrew McCarthy.
I'd really like to know what you think about the Alvin Bragg DA's office and should they be entrusted to handle this prosecution of this left wing extremist if in fact he ends up getting charged with murder spoiler alert, I think that he will.
We'll talk more about that.
Give us a call it eight fi five four zero five eighty two fifty five five four zero five eight two five five. You can also text us at d A n at five seven seven three nine filling in for the big guy on the Dan Kapla Show.
It's George Brockler six thirty KHW.
And now back to the dan Kapla Show podcast.
Good Lord, that is uh not the murderer Mangioni, that is the other one, Chuck Mangioni with the flugelhorn. Yeah, I still believe, still going strong at eighty four years of age.
Buddy, that's really impressive.
I don't know even know if well, we kind of joked off air like could this guy be related to him?
I think the answer is no.
But it's not a common name.
I don't know.
This kid apparently is a rich kid by the way he went to. I looked at some stuff online and this Luigi Mangioni, who is looks like he's a pretty good for the murder of the CEO of United Healthcare out there in New York about a week ago, now, coming up on a week ago. He apparently went to some forty thousand dollars a year grade school, high school, all this other stuff went to you, Penn, which I should point out one of the best business schools in the country called Wharton School of Business.
Guess who's a graduate of that, Donald Trump? That's it.
DJT is the man for that, Hey, George Brockler filling in for Dan caplis Dan doing what the great attorneys do, and that is to go to court and try cases on behalf.
Of their clients. I miss it, man.
I'm hoping to get back into it next year when I take over in the twenty third. But I get to be here in the seat right now. Thrilled to have talked with Andrew McCarthy, former big time federal prosecutor in the Southern District of New York that's maybe one of the most trial going prosecution offices in the federal DOJ system. And then of course now he's National Review in Fox and he talked to us about both Daniel
Penny and Luigi MANGIONI. We've got a phone line, you can call it and we can have a conversation about them. Eight five five four zero five eighty two fifty five eight five five four zero five eight two five five. So many issues one should Alvin Bragg be entrusted to try this case, you know, Anny McCarthy said, and I agree with him.
Murder is a state crime.
But in this case, you've got a dude who just got punched in the professional jewels earlier today with an acquittal for Daniel Penny, who he had illadvisedly gone over the top in prosecution for him for the death of the guy that was going nuts on that subway train a couple of years ago. And prior to that, he tortured a bunch of misdemeanors, stretched them out to make them something that they warn't, to extend the statue of limitations to go after President Trump on something that would
go largely unprosecuted for anybody else. And now he's got this land.
In his lap.
Should the system be trusted or should the Feds, as Andrew McCarthy point out, find a federal hook to grab that case and make it federal. That's a tough one eight five five four zero five eighty two fifty five eight five five four zero five eight two five five. Going right to the phone lines right now, someone whose name appears.
To be A Leiksay, is it e Leiksay Online? One.
It is a leaks say elik, say thanks three hundred eleven bays, mister Brockler, since I was last.
On the air. Yes, how do you know that stuff?
Because even when I had my own show, you would call up and say, the last time you burped on air was April to twelveth You know what I mean, like you would know stuff like that. How do you know that?
I just I have a weird memory. So what can I say?
I don't know.
I feel like I feel like I want to get matching suits and go to Vegas with you, have us come down and escalator together, and you could be my rain man.
You know, there you go, there you go. We can make a little bit of money. But hey, are you going to be like Alvin Bragg and your new role? If you know you're going to have a driver, probably want to chief suburban Security team and you know all the staxes cash like Sannie Willis.
Well, the sacks of cash, yes, but everything else. No, listen, this is actually an East Coast thing. I had a public information officer in my first year in my first term in office, going back to twenty thirteen.
And she had asked the same question.
She's like, well, hey, aren't you going to get a driver? And like a suburban and the driver is usually a senior sergeant with the police department. I'm like, whoa, whoa, sister, you're in the state of Colorado like that. You've got to be the governor or an overinflated attorney general to do something like that. And by the way, our attorney general has a driver, which is insane, or at least that's the last time I saw me had a driver. But no that I like to drive myself, and frankly,
I like to pack my own heat. I don't like to have someone else take responsibility for me. Hey, when you listen to Andrew McCarthy, and I know that you do a deep dive on all of these things because I've talked to you before, obviously seeing you off the radio as well. You're well read what is going on here with the Daniel Penny case.
And then when you.
Look broader and you step back and you look at what took place on the streets of New York, same jurisdiction with this Louisy Luigiman, Giona guy.
What's going on?
It is so political. I'm a Daniel Penny and the same prosecutor also had taken a case where a guy had gone to rob an old guy at the HTM. The old guy ends up dying. It was an accident, and she Pretzel twisted it to. You know out here, let's give you a slap on the wrist and a candy bar. We won't call it murder, and then they can know the opposite way, depending on if they like you politically or not, which is completely wrong. I'm saying with Alvin Bragg, I would not trust him.
Alexa, I thank you. You speak for everyone.
If you hear that music, you know that Ryan's about to push me off the air, and with good reason.
Alexa, thanks for the call.
Always good to have you, Phillip Alexi's line, would you eight five five four zero five eighty two fifty five. George Brockler filling in for the big Man, Dan Caplis. Back right after this.
You're listening to the Dan Kaplis Show podcast.
George Brockler filling in for Dan Caplis. He is in the court. I am here in the studio with Ryan and Kelly and listen. Big big news today all over the place coming out of New York, though in particular one the acquittal of Daniel Penny for that really another attempted miscarriage of justice by Alvin Bragg, the elected district attorney in Manhattan, who went after this guy for his freedom and more for his heroic efforts to try to
protect the innocent bystanders inside of a subway train. This one did have incredible and I know Anny McCarthy, who was on with us at the top of the hour, said, I don't think it's I don't think it's racial as much as ideological.
I think that's probably true.
But the racial piece fits into the ideology right, And that is because if this was Daniel Penny who had defended the people inside the subway train from a deranged, maniacal white guy, I don't think this thing even ends up inside of a courtroom, so there is a racial component to it.
But I do think it's ideological.
But at this point, you know, Alvin Bragg, can he be trusted to handle the second big thing that happened today, and that is the case of a guy named Luigi Mangioni who was grabbed up in a McDonald's. By the way, whoever this worker was at McDonald's that I did, this guy man. That's got to be like free happy mails and supersize for life or something, because this.
Guy was huge.
Luigi Mangioni not accused of anything other than a weapons crime at this time, twenty six year old Ivy League graduate grew up.
It looks like.
From a position of privilege, going to schools that cost a ton of money every year. He graduated from Penn, big time Ivy League school. He had on him a three deep printed firearm plus a suppressor. Now I've seen people put silencer as you know, a suppressor. And he gets grabbed up in this McDonald's. This guy presumably is going to be taken back to Manhattan and he's going
to presumably be charged with the murder of Brian Thompson. Now, if you haven't heard the name Brian Thompson, it's because he's largely been described only as the United CEO, which is true, the United Healthcare CEO.
That's true.
But this guy is a one hundred percent innocent victim, right father of two, married, although I think he lived separately from his wife for a bit, but nonetheless not deserving of being shot by any stretch of any legal or moral imagination. But that's not how this Luigi Mangioni guy saw it.
And so the issue here is whether or not.
Alvin Brad can be trusted to prosecute this case. And the other thing I asked Ryan off the air was this three D printed gun. You know, there's been real activity here in the state of Colorado to try to grab up the issue of homemade guns. Three D guns that sort of beat the system, right, no serial numbers, So we pass all that says you have to get them serialized for purposes of identification if they're ever used in a crime, and ownership and transfer and all this
other stuff. And so now we've seen it used here in this big time crime. And so if you are a gun control person, you look at this and say, this is exactly why we have to do it. If you are a Second Amendment person, you say, this is exactly why no law could ever work on it.
Right. This is proof that.
A law demanding that three D printed guns be serialized cannot prevent three D guns from being generated or put into the hands of someone who, by the way, by all accounts clean criminal history, would have passed any background check. This was clearly done for purposes of trying to beat the system and avoid responsibility. I just wonder how that impacts you. Is this just proof that there's no way to regulate firearms beyond the are you criminally insane and
it's on a database? And are you a convicted felon and it's on a database. Keep in mind, by the way, in the state of Colorado, thanks to the efforts in part of our Attorney General Phil Wiser, and I feel like there has to be a disclaimer Ryan every time I say this. I did lose to Phil in twenty eighteen for Attorney General, but because of Phil's efforts, there have been tens of thousands of convicted felons in the state of Colorado who are now allowed to be re armed,
so this wouldn't even apply to them as well. But the question here is can Alvin Bragg be trusted to prosecute this case again? Should the FEDS get involved in this, especially the FEDS that are going to be helmed by likely Pam Bondi, the Attorney General, and whoever their hand picked US attorneys who make it through Senate confirmation are.
In the coming year. Who should handle this case and why.
Eight five point five four zero five eighty two fifty five, so many other questions I have, Like you know, we look at the cases where the younger people walk into the schools and commit the mass shootings, and we look at can we prosecute the parents? Could the parents have some how done something to prevent this from happening, or did they do something to facilitate what happened. That's what we saw with the Crumley's right out of Michigan. That's
what we saw with their sons. Now this guy's different. He's twenty six years old, he's an adult, he's a graduate with an engineering degree out of PEN I get all that. But when we're talking about responsibility and doing a deep dive of post mortem, if you will, on this,
is there some responsibility that should be heaped upon. I don't know about the parents here, but about an educational system that not only arms these young men and women with these crazy ideas of what justice is, but encourages them to think in terms of if you have the moral high ground on your issue, whether it's global warming or protecting the animals or the Palestinian the Humma, whatever it is, that if you can claim the moral high ground,
anything you do in defense of that is justifiable. Ryan off Air said it, Man, it's Nicolo Machiavelli. It's to the ends, justify the means. And if that's what's going on in education today, is there some responsibility? And I don't mean that they're going to be drug into court and be sent to prison. Just shouldn't we know this? Shouldn't we try to understand this shooter? This would be shooter.
He is a shooter, but he hasn't been accused of yet whether or not his thought process was the product of an elitist, liberal East Coast education that put him in a possession position to basically be a human hand grenade that pulled his own pin.
I mean, is that what we should be looking at? And if so, what steps do we take?
I have my own concerns about the the elites out there in the educational system, But man, it seems like this, this is just another indictment of the rich eight five p't five four zero five eighty two fifty five. There's no death penalty for this guy. And honestly, as I think about it, from a if this had happened on the streets of Colorado back in the day before Jared Polus and the Dems in the legislature got rid of
our death penalty. Would there be aggravators that would exist that would have made this a capital punishment case?
And none of them come to mind.
There were sixteen that we had, probably too many, but sixteen under our state statute. I can't think of any that would have made it a capital punishment case.
But here's what you need to know.
This kind of murder, this cold blooded after intent with the deliberation murderer. In New York, the maximum sentence is twenty five to life.
That's right.
That's if this dude goes to trial and gets convicted. And again that's an open question because if you're Alvin Bragg and you have shown your hand in multiple big time cases, Alexa or Alik say, however she announces it these days told us in the call, this guy's good for making political decisions about cases, right and left.
What do you do with this guy? Do you charge him?
You have to charge him right with the highest class of murder, first degree murder. But do you give him a plea barg do you give him some sort of a deal. Do you stipulate to some kind of a sentence less than the maximum you get. We don't do twenty five to life. We only do that as an indeterminate sentence on sex offenses. We just don't do that on adult charges. And I see, by the way, for those of you that have never been in the studio, and if you have, you probably broke the law because
they're not going to let you in here. You look through the glass and you look at the incredibly good looking Detroit Lions fan Ryan Schuling, and he has the earphones on, he's got his finger on the button.
You're about to tell me something. Are the police here for me?
Did you know?
How?
Did you know?
I can tell you went an election, going on an investigation. That's what happens here.
Just that we're at the forty five break, and you can take it whenever you want, because this one's a floating break, not a heard out.
You know, I had a floating break once, but well I went and saw a doctor about it and they fixed it to the thing that was supposed to be on. So now it's just a break. Awesome, yea, which is awesome. Hey, listen, I want to tell you what's coming up, by the way, too. In the second hour of the show, we have a guy named Wayne Williams.
You may have never heard of Wayne.
Wayne, of course, former Secretary of State for the state of Colorado back before it became the most hyper partisan office next to the AGS in our state. Wayne's going to talk to us about a recent Facebook Live statement made by the current mayor and his former opponent for
mayor of Colorado Springs, Jemmy Mobilatte. And then at five thirty six, we're going to have Miranda Devine on to talk to us about more of this pardon stuff, and then we'll finish off the show with I think a great interview one that's going to hit close to home for me from a group called the Homebuilder's Foundation.
But I'd love to hear from you more on this.
What does Alvin Bragg do with this? What do you expect Alvin Bragg to do with this guy? It's almost like the anti Daniel Penny, right, Like Daniel Penny's the dude that saved people's lives by taking matters into his own hands when a guy was going crazy on a subway.
Now here's a guy.
That's taken matters into his own hands to kill someone for some And by the way, did you know he had a manifesto. Oh yeah, there have been some leaks about it to CNN and others. We'll talk a little bit about that when we come back, but I'd love
to hear from you. We also have the texts. If I can figure out how to get the text thing going here, we'll keep doing the text, but give us a call eight five five four zero five eighty two fifty five eight five five four zero five eight two five five ask a question of the once in future district attorney right here on the Dan Kapla Show.
Talk to you just a bit, and.
Now back to the Dan Kaplis Show podcast.
George Robert filling in for the Dan Caplis.
The Dan Caplis is in the courtroom trying a case on behalf of his client. I'm sure scoring some huge justice for them. Now, Ryan, you do don't accidentally play any bumper music? That was of course the great Rod Stewart. What's the feed in? What's the connection? What did I miss there?
When you're on a downtown train, you want to.
Know, for the love of on board Now I feel super ignorant about that, of course, Ryan making reference to Daniel Penny acquitted today by a jury of his peers in Manhattan in a case ill brought by da Alvin Bragg. Maybe the second most. It's hard to know if it's him or Fannie Willis is the most partisan district attorneys in the state. They call her Fani, and she had a gentleman lover named Nathan Wade.
George, you know as well as I. They should put you on Saturday.
Live to replace that guy, who also does, by the way, a brilliant Donald Trump. The other big news, of course, Luigi MANGIONI don't know if he's related to the big man, Chuck, twenty six year old elitist ivy League guy who has a bit of a manifesto here. Now, CNN had published some of this stuff. And let me tell you my concern. This happened in the Aurora theater case. If you recall that mass murderer, that evil mass murderer had also written a notebook.
But in his case, he had mailed it to.
His psychiatrist at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center. It got intercepted by law enforcement en route there. The Postal inspector whatever said hey, we've got this thing from this guy. It got intercepted grabbed up and it was a huge pain in the butt from a prosecutor standpoint, because some member of law enforcement talked about it to a woman who I cannot remember Winter, last name Winter, reporter named Winter, who was working at the time for Fox.
I don't think she was an on air person, and she reported on what this person described. Well, that created a huge problem for us because the public defenders, who of course will fight you over anything, filed emotion saying we want sanctions against Brockler and all of law enforcement because they released information about this case into the public stream in violation of a couple rules that we have, as well as this order that the original chief judge
had given. Now in this particular case, CNN had released this guy's statements at least a couple that were attributed to him. The long and the short of which for this guy were that he says, oh, where's it right here? These parasites had it coming. This isn't a manifesto. They grabbed up off of him purportedly at the Altoona MacDonald's in Pennsylvania. These parasites had it coming. I do apologize for any strife and trauma, but it had to be
done one disgusting. Nobody believes you that you apologize for this. You don't kill a father of two, an innocent father of two, in cold blood. And when I say innocent, I mean in the truest sense of the word innocent. Guy didn't do anything to deserve to get murdered on the streets of New York City.
And in this case, there's more to this.
But if you're a prosecutor and this information gets leaked out, and it's law enforcement that does these kinds of things, rarely do you see a prosecutor leaking this information because they know how the game is played. It creates potential problems down the road for the DA and bringing this forward. What you don't want is for the case to be tried in public, because if it gets to a certain point, not only can the DA be sanctioned for a failure
to try to rein in this information. And when I say sanctioned, I mean it could result in I mean the death penalty for all this. Ironically, since New York doesn't have it would be to dismiss the case. I don't see that happening here, but it could result in forbidding the DA from using certain evidence from proceeding on a certain level of charge. It could even result in something called a change of venue, which means the case
ends up getting tried somewhere else. Now, in this particular case, this guy being tried New York City is probably not going to get any better. You get an upstate in New York and you start to get to a more conservative jury pool here. But this is a bit of a problem, but it's an insight into this guy. He felt completely justified in doing this. And I'm glad we're almost out of time here, Ryan, because I don't want
to go too far down this rabbit hole. But there's someone else locally that we talked about who took the same approach on a much less life or death matter, but an important one, and that's Tina Peters. Tina Peters claimed the moral high ground by saying, I'm out here to find out whether this election was stolen, whether this data is secure and preserved, and therefore whatever I do to violate the law is okay because I have a
higher purpose in mind. That's the kind of machiavellian ends justify the means approach that history has been riddled with for people to go and do horrible things. You know who else thought like that dude named Tim McVay. Tim mcvay's acting blowing up that Murrow building and killing all those little kids and those innocent government workers was because he had a higher moral purpose in mind. Listen, we're gonna have plenty of time to talk about that when we come back after the.
Top of the hour.
A guy named Wayne Williams would have been the mayor, isn't the mayor? I'd love to get his reaction to a Facebook live statement that Mayor Jemmy Mobilatti gave a last week about his interactions with the FBI. Did he tell the truth? George Brockler on the Dan Kaplis Show stick Around