Haunting Horrors Unleashed: Shayn's Journey Through Midwest Mysteries

>> John: Hello my spooky friends. I'm John, your host. And welcome to another episode of Dairyland Frights, the paranormal podcast that covers everything spooky, creepy and mysterious in the midwest and beyond. And the great spooky guests, they keep on continuing. For Spooktober. I so happy I was able to finally get Shane from inquiries of our reality, on the podcast. I really like his stuff and I think you'll love his stuff too. So welcome Shane.

>> Shane: Well, thanks for having me. Also from the midwest too, because I'm from Michigan. So also fitting in with the theme of the show. >> John: I love my witwest people because we always, you know, just really quickly, every time I talk to Midwest people, we always like, people don't think we have cryptids or mysteries or we have a lot of stuff. We're flyover states, right? You know, we're just whatever, right?

>> Shane: Those are always the ones that seem to have the most though, because I mean, whether, whatever way you want to go with the phenomenon. I mean all these middle America places are always the one where all these weird things are seen. And whether it's one for a tourist attraction or two, they just like exploit the story a little bit more

because they want people to come in. It makes sense that ah, most of the cryptids would be in the midwest because those are the states that kind of need people to come and check out the area. >> John: Absolutely. And you guys, you're, well, you have famous cryptids,

but probably your famous cryptid that people have, that we've covered on here and other people have covered is the Michigan dog man. that's a pretty favorite one. Do you have a favorite cryptid, Shane, in your neck of the woods? >> Shane: I mean, as far as Michigan, definitely a Michigan dog man, but we definitely have a lot of sasquatch activity. It's just all northern

Michigan and in the up and stuff. And then actually we do have a city that's on the opposite side of the state for me, which is on about midway up on the west side of the state. It's supposed to be, I believe, the number three top per capita UFO abduction area because it also is one of the corners of the Lake Michigan triangle too. So we got a little bit of everything kind of going on in Michigan and then Detroit. a lot of people probably don't realize it, but we have the masonic temple.

People from the area definitely know the name of the place, but it's normally used as like a concert venue. But originally, of course, it was a masonic temple and it was actually one of the original ones started by Crowley. So there's a lot of a cult underlaying and paranormal stuff going on in Detroit. So depending on where you're at in the state, each corner kind of has something a little bit different going on. >> John: And that's what I love about Michigan, Midwest,

in general. I mean there's just some really creepy spooky stuff that people kind of sweep under the rug, or the spooky rug, per se. You know, la they were voted, by the way, which I don't agree with. Just recently California was voted in, parts of LA were voted the number one place for haunted attraction. They say they're the most spookiest. I have a lot of California listeners. I don't know. What do you think? Shane, do you agree with that?

>> Shane: not necessarily. I mean, the one thing that they kind of do have for a backing is LA. Cause I think that that's primarily like where most of it comes from. And honestly the only reason that happens is just because of all the like Hollywood, you know, murders and all the like weird underlaying and everything. So I mean, I definitely think that they have a pretty good spot in the paranormal as far as that goes, just because of

that backing. But I mean every state kind of has their different things for different reasons, but maybe it's just a more touristy state to begin with. So in turn, people do a lot of paranormal tourism there where it's like, you know, you have a lot more haunted places, but like you kind of mentioned with the Midwest, if they're flyover states, not necessarily like a destination for most people, then people aren't going to do much paranormal

investigating there. But California people are going there to hang out with family, to be, be on the beach, to do this, to do that. So I think the paranormal touring also kind of just comes in turn with the normal volume of tourism that they get in that state. >> John: Absolutely, absolutely. So Shane, tell me about your podcast and tell a little bit about

what my spooky friends should look forward to once they listen to your episode. >> Shane: Honestly, I have a lot of different projects that I'm working on. my main podcast that I, well, I don't even necessarily want to say main, but my solo podcast, which was my original one that I started, was inquiries of our reality. And the whole premise of that was to inquire about our reality. You know, one topic at a time with individual guests. You know, I'll have

researchers come on, I'll have authors. Come on. I'll have experiencers, investigators. Honestly, just anybody that's within the open minded realm because we dive into spirituality as much as we dive into UFO cryptids and the paranormal and all that kind of stuff. but it's meant to be like, just like a one on one, open conversation style show. so from there, of course, I have different

facets of different things that I like to do, of course. So I ended up starting up a second show, that wouldn't necessarily say is like my second show, but they're both honestly, my main shows, is bizarre encounters and that one I have a co host on. And, we actually. It's bizarre encounters with Shane and Oren. I had to change the name recently because somebody, else decided to start using bizarre encounters, even though we've been using that for a while. So I just want to

differentiate them up a bit. but yeah, bizarre encounters with Orrin and Shane, or Shane and Oren, with that one. It's a lot of us just deep diving into a lot of different, sightings, abductions, all that kind of stuff through history. We, dive into some of the occult stuff, too, but it's more of like a deep dive style show where you just kind of have banter back and forth between the two of us. we make jokes and stuff like that in the process.

There are some guests and stuff like that that come on. But it's a little bit different of a format of the show. And then we also started doing a YouTube Patreon show that's called bizarre inquiries. And the whole premise of that is that people will like send in questions, clips, articles, all that, and we'll kind of just let our minds wander and discuss them and stuff like that. and then I also have another show that's in the works right now. that will be a dropped on the normal

feed here and there, and also a Patreon show. And that one's going to be called the reality report. And, the whole premise of that show is that I'm going to be covering a lot of different, weird encounters, reports and all that kind of stuff that I find across the Internet. Not, necessarily sticking to any particular type of phenomenon because I also want to be able to cover time slips, scripted, all that kind of stuff. so from that, of course, I started doing.

I actually just started this up a couple days ago, so I'm actually excited to announce this on another show. I started up the OMM encounter reports hotline. I've been using an email for a while that was ommencounterreports outlook.com. but just to make it easier for people, I set up a hotline number so they can leave voicemails and stuff, and I can play them on the show, or people don't want them on the show, and they just want something investigative. I'm in the

area. Definitely another number they can call in and just ask around. And if I can't do it, I can find somebody else that can connect them. But if, anybody is interested in being featured on a future show and sharing your encounter reports, experiences, any of that, you guys can again use the email ommencounterreports dot look.com. or you guys can use the new, omm encounter reports hotline, which is 313-364-1551 a little bit of everything. >> John: I love it. You're a busy

boy. Love it. because I think we both agree by doing this, we're taking away some of the, I don't know, not the mystique, but some of the demystifying in the sense that if you really have something that bothering you, you know, it's good to get it out. Even though people might go, man, that sounds really, like, crazy or something. I think it's a good thing. What, do you think, Shane? Because there's just thousands of stories out there people have not said, because I don't want to

see that I'm crazy or something. Right. >> Shane: Honestly, that's kind of how I, go about my show, where, of course, for a lot of people listening to podcasts and stuff, it's entertainment. But I wanted to try to set up a comfortable place where people be able to share their experiences, get them all out in the open.

And possibly I could throw some of my ideas from my, past research and everything towards it, or again, be able to connect them with somebody who might be able to check it out if I'm nowhere near the area. But I think it's an important thing, again, to be able to create that comfortable place for people to be able to share in turn, so that one, people can get it out, two, people can

get the help they need. And also on the other side, people who have had weird experiences that don't quite know where to place them or they aren't ready to share them yet. You get them out in the open so they don't feel like they're so crazy, and, give them somebody that will actually listen to them without giving them funny looks and stuff like that as they're trying to tell

their experience. And, again, in turn, by doing that, it makes it so, it's so make it so more people might feel comfortable sharing their experiences and actually getting the help they need instead of just kind of sitting and skewing in whatever may have happened to them. Whether it's, you know, an abduction experience or cryptid sighting or something

paranormal they're experiencing in their house. At, the end of the day, I feel like somebody always needs at least one person to be able to talk about it with openly. And, you got to try to give that to them and not try to chalk it up as just entertainment, but actually try to do something to further the research and to, again, give people almost like a place for therapy to be able to talk about these experiences. Because you can't just go to a normal therapist and talk about weird

experiences and how they've traumatized you. It's just they're going to look at you like you're funny too, you know? >> John: Yeah, absolutely. I love that, Shane, because I think everyone I've had on the show has pretty much said the same thing. It's okay to, talk about this and bring it up in a safe environment. and one of the things I found out from people just keeping it to themselves, is

it really eats at you. It really causes you to bring up other mental things that might block you from having a good life, you know? And I think that's sad, right? You know, because it's okay to say you saw a ghost. Okay, you saw a ghost. Okay, let's talk about it. And most people will be like, well, it passed in my house and I was kind of scared. I was like seven years old. Well, that's a traumatic experience, right? You're seven, you wake up and you see a ghost pass through a

wall. That's a little rough, right? >> Shane: I mean, it's one of those things too, that some people aren't honestly traumatized by it. They're fascinated with the experience, but again, still need a place to be able to talk to. But the people have had like, UFO abduction experiences and stuff. Like they've gone through some

traumatic stuff. And more often than not, it's like when I have people like that on the show, I have a few different groups that are friends of previous guests I've had on the show that, are organizations that are basically intended to give people therapy for people who have dealt with UFO abduction. So kind of a very niche thing, but some definitely something that needs to be done.

But for the people who are the most traumatized by the experiences, though, you have to try to give them somewhere to be able to go in order to be able to be completely open about the experience and not have to worry about anything. Because more often than not, too, it's like people may not give out every single little detail, but those little details might be something that links in with somebody

else's experiences where they might get more answers. So you have to try to give them that environment where they're not going to try to leave out any details, because those very minute details that they don't deem were important could honestly play a huge role in the experience and actually connect it in with a lot of other people have had a very, very similar experience. >> John: Yeah, I love that. So, speaking of experiences,

could you tell me about your first paranormal experience? Like, how old were you and what happened? >> Shane: Honestly, I've kind of had, like, a plethora of experiences that have happened throughout my life. But, my earliest one kind of

linking in with the paranormal and everything was, when I was young, I used to astral travel and not realize what I was doing at the time. Like, I don't know exactly when it had started for me, but I just remember being very young and having these experiences where I'd, like, go to sleep and I'd wake up and I'd see myself sleeping still. And I'd almost feel like stuff was, like, watching me, but there was nothing that was showing itself at that

time. So it almost kind of felt like something was, like, almost like testing me out to try to see, like, what I would do with it. And I'd always get sleep paralysis directly after these experiences, which is kind of how I've separated it away from just, like a normal dream. because every single time I'd have these very vivid experiences, I'd always have sleep paralysis directly after getting a little bit older. This

experience has been kind of going on for the most part of my life. And when I was a teenager, I lived in this house that had this very, like, dark presence to it. it was a house that was foreclosed on. Somebody, like, completely, like, abandoned the house. they left the water running and stuff like that. So, like, the whole basement flooded out. It seemed like they're almost trying to

destroy the house, almost. But I. The weird part was there's a bunch of bible papers and stuff ripped out in the basement, which I thought was very, very strange for this house. But, as we lived in this house for a while. It was one of those things where it wasn't like you would regularly see

anything. It was more so just this, like, dark presence that would bring out the worst in people's personalities, where it would, like, spike up, where if somebody's a very angry person, like, it would create, like, them being, like, twice as angry as they would normally be. Or if they're a very depressed person, they'd be twice as depressed as they would normally be. So just bring out a, like, like, a steroid of, like, these emotions

and stuff. But when I was in this house is when stuff started getting a little bit weird, where when I would have these experiences, I started having a lot of, like, shadow people experiences where I would see these, like, dark beings watching me every time I'd come back after having sleep paralysis. But I never had, like, the old hag experience or anything, sat on my chest or anything, but I would always have the shadow people along, like, the outside

walls. And there's always this one really big one that was bigger than all the rest. And I had these glowing green eyes. And to this day, I still haven't quite figured out what's the deal with the green eyes on that, because I haven't heard anybody else have shadow people experiences with green eyes or anything. But, living in that house, though, I had a few other weird sleep paralysis experiences, which I connect into some

other stuff after talking to guests like, Vicky Joy Anderson. For anybody that's familiar with her work, she dives a lot. >> John: She's awesome. >> Shane: Oh, yeah. So you already know all about her diving into sleep paralysis and everything. So I had her on for an episode, and we started kind of connecting some of our experiences and realized that we had a lot of similarities that, like, for example, water seemed to be a pretty, common factor in a lot of these experiences.

And, these obstacle courses that you'd go through while having these astral travel type experiences. And one of them in particular was this one that was a bunch of, like, wooden building type structures. It was an obstacle course on top of these, like, bricks or not bricks, but these giant stones that were in the

water. And I was supposed to go through it. And as I'm making it most of the way through it, I end up slipping at one point, and I fall into the water, and I rush through these rapids, and I get smacked onto a rock. And as I smack that rock, I wake up, and I have a sleep paralysis experience. And this seems to be a pretty common thing for a lot of people with sleep paralysis,

again, kind of connecting with Vicky, Joey Anderson and stuff. But, again, it's always felt like there was this like, test, like they were trying to like, figure out what you might do on that other side. But as I got a little bit older, I had, some other experiences that kind of go a little bit more into sightings and a little bit more shadow people stuff. But I guess I'll give you a second if you have any questions before I continue on with it.

>> John: No, no, that, that's fairly, that's fairly common. Talking to Vicki. I, love what she's talking about. Talking to some other people in that realm or people who have had it. It's not, only a frightening experience, but it's something that I don't know, like, I don't know if Vicki told you this. She told me, like, if people say there's a sleep paralysis expert, there really isn't, because everybody's different and everybody has different emotions and I things

associated with that. She says all you can kind of do is deal with it stronger and stuff. And I thought that was really interesting, you know, she said obviously, you know, too, from having it, you know, you unfortunately got to kind of deal with it. There's no real cure, right? I mean, that I know of, yeah.

>> Shane: Honestly haven't found any type of cure or anything. But at least for like Vicky Joy, the people are doing the research for stuff like this that you can't necessarily become an expert in. The way they go about their research is they try to find all these commonalities between people's experiences. But honestly, I think that's the first step in trying to actually get somewhere with it, is you first have to try to figure out what's the commonalities and then in turn you can

start attacking. Well, not attacking, but trying to figure out what each one of the commonalities meanings might be, one by one. And of course, it's all speculative, kind of like, a lot of the stuff with paranormal encrypted UFO's and stuff, but you have to form some kind of a base. And I think the best way for us at this current time, with the current technology and everything that we have is to try to at least establish these commonalities between

things and then kind of build up from there. Because honestly, we're probably kind of setting the groundwork for future generations because obviously technology is always advancing and there might be a better way to be able to, you know, figure these things out in the future. But at least for right now. You have to start laying the groundwork to get somewhere with the research. >> John: Yeah, yeah. So what other experiences have you had as especially what you were just talking about?

>> Shane: So kind of connecting back in with all this stuff. Just another, weird experience and kind of mind thought thing that kind of continues on before I get into the next part of it. One of the experiences I had while I was in this weird house, or well, was in that house when I was a teenager, was. There was one day I fell

asleep on the floor in the back room. And I ended up waking up and obviously I saw myself sleeping there like usual. But when I looked down at my arms, my arms and everything were all completely black. So one, thing that I've kind of questioned as far as these like, shadow people go is that, you know, could they also be some type of like, reflection of an astral self? Like, at least in that experience I saw myself as three dimensional. But that's because, you know, I was in first person

in that experience. But if there are other people that maybe aren't coming into astral travel from the aspect of like, purposely doing it themselves, but rather they're thrown into this kind of stuff, like, it's a different way of going about this astral travel. If maybe they present, are presented as shadow people because they're not maybe in the right vibration or right spectrum or something like that. But at least that one experience kind of made me question that. And, again, I haven't

really found too many other people have had that experience. But I mean, at least maybe something to start kind of laying the groundwork as far as what these shadow people might possibly be. But, continuing on with some more of my experiences, I've had. So when I was a little, I moved out of the house and everything like that. And I got with my girlfriend that I'm currently with

now. And we used to do urban exploring. And for anybody that's not familiar with what that is, it's when you check out all these old abandoned buildings and stuff like that. And part of what you do with that usually is paranormal investigating. And, this was

before I had really learned all the rules and like, what you're exactly supposed to do for a paranormal investigation. >> John: Boy. >> Shane: so we checked this place out and this place is huge. It's like they got the man hospital. They got all these like little side campuses and everything like that. Like it's. It's a giant campus. As far

as like this, it's not just one specific abandoned building. So, the first time we'd gone there, we ended up checking out, like, the main building and stuff. And, while we were there, I ended up finding a couple things that I stupidly brought home at the time. One of them was no smoking sign, nothing super cool. But, the other thing that I had found was this, like, tiki head that looked like it was

carved out of foam and then painted. So my best guess is that it may have been something that was made by one of the patients at some point. Because, you know, much like most, mental institutions, there's, you know, a tumultuous history for this place. And so, of course, you know, you're not going to give somebody that might possibly harm themselves or others like, a piece of wood and a knife in order to, like, whittle. So

they have these other ways going about it. You give them, you know, like a plastic knife and a, piece of styrofoam. You could probably carve something, just do some arts and crafts and stuff. But I thought it was interesting, so I stupidly brought it home with me. And, when we got home that night, my girlfriend, I, we drop all of our stuff off upstairs, and then we come back

downstairs. And the layout for this house is that you walk in the front door, there's the stairs that go directly upstairs, and then there's the front room, and then there's the kitchen behind it, but there's the two doorways on either side, so it's almost like a continuous loop. So we come down the stairs, we're about to go and get a snack, and I'm standing at the base of the stairs, and my girlfriend goes to walk into the kitchen, and she goes

along the far way to kind of loop up and around. And as we go to, as she goes to walk that way, we both make direct eye contact with this dark figure sitting on the couch. And it was the shadow that was darker than dark, much like how most people describe, like a shadow person. And she had that thing where she was, like, scared of what she saw, so she just kind of zoomed past it while continuing on with what

she was doing. And then she came around the other side and looked at me, and I looked at her, and we both looked back, and it wasn't there anymore. And she's like, you saw that, right? And I'm like, yeah, I definitely saw that. After that, I decided I should probably end up bringing that stuff back. So the next time we ended up

going back, ended up bringing that stuff back. But later on that night, at this point, my girlfriend wasn't familiar with any of the weird, astro travel experiences or anything that I had been dealing with from the time growing up and everything. And I'm always a night owl. I've always been a night owl. So I'm sitting up, I'm watching tv, and she is, she went to sleep, like she

usually does a little bit earlier. And she goes to sleep and I hear in the hallway this walking down the hallway, it's like, do do do, boom. And then it sounds like something gets pushed down the stairs. And as I hear that, she springs up and she goes, whoa. She was in my dream. I just got pushed down the stairs. And I told her, well, that was weird because I just heard something fall down the stairs. And after that, I ended up sharing with her like all of my experiences

and everything that I dealt with. And I've always kind of been curious if it's possible if, you know, if somebody is prone to astral traveling without being aware of what they're doing, if maybe that could project onto somebody else that's next to them. Because this was the first and only time she'd ever had m one of these experiences. And going back into Northville because I have a couple different things that kind of tie in with

Northville. And this one, I'm not exactly sure if it ties in with like the main encounter I had there, but I always tell it as part of it because it's still kind of weird and might possibly tie in with it. But there was another time we were there and we're probably on like the third story of the hospital. And we're looking down out the back window and there's this like tree line with a

little like forest that's right there. And there was a cougar that walked out of the woods and it looked up at us and then it slinked back into the woods. And my girlfriend didn't see it, but my girlfriend and her, me and my girlfriend's friend had seen it. And for anybody that's not familiar with Michigan, like, Michigan isn't a place where cougars are typically seen at, especially not nearly the Detroit Northville type area. So this was something that wasn't supposed to

be in this area. And I didn't believe what I had seen. And then I started looking into news, reports. And actually there were a couple sightings around this area of this cougar. And nobody ever found a body. Nobody ever figured out where it went. It was just there and then it was gone one day. So that's why I said this might end up kind of tying in with this, final experience we had there. And, diving into that place. I mean, we got to the point where we knew the entire layout of the place.

We'd mapped out the entire place. We'd been there so many times, more than we can count, that we kind of weren't necessarily getting bored of it, but we kind of wanted something else to be able to explore. And of course, you know, we've gotten, like, the orb photos, we've gotten all that kind of stuff.

But, you know, with the orb photos, especially in these old places, it's like, you know, I always take into consideration the fact that they might, they might be dust particles because, you know, you definitely have to be a skeptic with this stuff because every bump can't necessarily be a ghost. But we kind of collected some weird stuff from there. But, this particular day, we decided that we

wanted to be able to go and check out the Northville tunnels. And the Northville tunnels are, this is this old tunnel system that connects completely under Northville, the entire city. So we've always were kind of weird about going down there because we didn't want to accidentally run out of, juicing our flashlights, you know, and have to feel our way back a couple miles against

the wall. So this, one night, we decided that we're going to go down there and at least kind of check a little bit into it, but not go too, too far into it. So we come down the staircase into the basement of the hospital. And the basement of the hospital has some entrances into this tunnel because they also used to use it for transporting patients and stuff like that here and there. And, we went down into the basement to, my right side,

there's this brick wall. And there was a doorway that looked like it was removed, but not by, like, people that were there just vandalizing the building or anything. It looked like it was professionally removed at one point because the bricks were kind of nicely removed in creating this doorway. So I go down, I go to peek and check out that room. And as I go into that room and I start peeking in there, I hear this disembodied voice to my right side say,

right? And as I hear that, I look forward and there's this metal, like, hospital Gertie type cart. And this thing stands up from behind it, and it's this tall, lanky, decrepit looking humanoid type being, and it has this, like, bluish, grayish, like, decaying skin color. It's got this long, greasy hair on the top of its head, and it wasn't shaped like a normal human. Otherwise, I would have expected that it may have been, you know, somebody that was,

you know, living in the basement, like a homeless person or something like that. But the skin tone and the way this thing was shaped was not normal. So, as I see this thing standing up, I take off, and I have my girlfriend with me, and I also have her friend with me, and I didn't tell them what exactly I'd seen, because I didn't want to freak him out. I wanted to just get him out of the

building as fast as possible. You know, sometimes it's better not to tell people stuff and just worry about trying to get him out of there as fast as possible. So as we get taking off out of this building, my girlfriend ends up taking some pictures behind her, and she ends up capturing this apparition type photo of the thing I'd seen, which kind of makes it weird, because the thing I'd seen was very physical. But this picture she ended up getting was, you can

see through it. It's like a mist. I can end. I can send you the picture after the show if you want. >> John: Yeah, that'd be great. >> Shane: trying to figure out what this thing was, and this partly led into why I started the podcast in the first place. I hadn't really talked about what I had seen on the podcast until a couple months into the show, because

I just didn't even know where to place it in my mind. I was looking into this thing, and everything kept coming back towards, like, windigo, but it didn't have that typical look of what people would assume a wendigo would look like, the deer headed with the deer and the skull and the antlers and everything. So, as I start kind of diving into it a little bit more, I realized that that whole idea of what a Wendigo looks like

was never how the natives described it. They described it as this zombie like, lanky creature that would eat its lips off. It was never described like that. And as I started diving a little bit more into the lore behind it, I realized that the whole, antlers, skull, all that kind of appearance to it, came after the settlers started coming through and retelling some of these stories. And just, like, a lot of the native stuff, they try to, like, demonize a lot of, like, the parts of the

culture. So, you know, you have, like, devil's tea kettle. all these different places that were sacred places that they just threw the term devil or this or something paganistic on it. So that's kind of honestly what seemed to have happened with the Wendigo. And the reason, again, I hadn't, shared this encounter for so long is because when people refer to a wendigo, it's like I started saying, I believe I

saw a wendigo. And people are going to say, oh, you saw this, you saw that? And I'm like, no, it's nothing how it appears. And I kind of have to go through this, like, whole run through on it. But the other weird part about it was diving into some more of the lore behind it. They say you're not safe from the first

snowfall to the last snowfall. And there's a lot of different stories saying that during the summer months, these things, since they're, like, decaying, they'll go underground, they'll go into caves, they'll go into this. And at least this tunnel system, it was a good, like, 20 degrees cooler than the rest of the hospital going above. So, I mean, a lot of this stuff seemed to have fit. And what I kind of believe is that a lot of people describe the rake or the pill

crawler a lot. like, how the Windigo is described. And what I think ended up happening is that the rake and the pill crawler aren't necessarily something that exists. I think that they were new names given to what people are seeing as the Windigo. And that's why you don't hear too many Wendigo sightings, is because people are looking for the wrong thing, and they're categorizing this

under something completely different. And depending on, like, the experience and stuff like that, it seems to have these commonalities between either one, being somewhat of a cave like being, or two being this

aggressive, attacking type being. So I definitely think that there might be a differentiation in rakes and Wendigos, that maybe one of them are more of these underground type beings and the other ones are like Wendigos, and they just look very similar because they kind of have that skin tone and stuff. But as far as what people are describing as a wendigo, isn't what the natives would have described as a windigo. But that's at least what I believe I've seen in this sighting.

And that would also partly kind of fit why it was physical, but also non physical at the same time. And, yeah, it's just been one of those things that I've kind of, questioned for a while. Still haven't really gotten anywhere with it. But because of me at least coming in trying to investigate that, it kind of spread into all the other research. And I kind of put that one on the back burner and just kind of started investigating a bunch of other stuff as a whole at this point.

>> John: Wow. Okay. So I was going to ask you, what is your creepiest investigation? But I think you probably told me, or is there something better than that? >> Shane: That one's probably the weirdest one. I have done a good handful of squatching and stuff, but I haven't really had any, like, any good. Good sightings. I found, like, trace

evidence and stuff. But as far as, like, investigations and sightings where the most interesting stuff happened, that was probably the most interesting one. >> John: Yeah. Yeah, obviously that's. That's amazing. And, you know, you're

braver than me. I would run screaming like a little girl out there and be like, okay, urban exploring is always interesting to me too, because, I used to watch a lot of it, but then I was. I got kind of bored with it because some of, some of the people, they would just. I don't know, they. It's not that they're, destroying anything, but they would, like, go into people's homes who just got evicted, and they would just kind of check things out and I'd be like, you know, man, that's not cool.

>> Shane: Yeah. We used to go into, like, the old places that have been abandoned for a while. And we had this thing wherever my girlfriend, I used to see beauty and destruction still kind of do, but she was a photographer, still is. So we would go into these places and we tried to leave them as minimal as, like, nobody being able to tell that we've necessarily been there because we wanted there to be, you know, the old books in these places, the old, windows still in these places,

we want to be able to take pictures of all this stuff. And it was always sad to see that every time we'd go back, there'd be a new group that would come in there and not respect, like, the beauty of just this destruction process. And they would take it upon themselves to try to make the process happen a little bit faster, for lack of better terms. >> John: Right. And that. That really sucks. because I used to watch some. Some groups were really good, but like, some.

Well, if you're familiar with the, rock group pink Floyd, like, sometimes or other artists would, like, just abandon their homes would just be like, I don't want it. I got ten homes anyway. And they would just abandon their homes. And then, you know, people, urban explorers would go in there and, it would be like, it'd just be like a pine castle. It would just be like they haven't touched it since the seventies or eighties or sixties or maybe even earlier. And I, I find

that fascinating. And like you said, if you cannot touch any of that stuff and just take some really cool pictures and video and share it with people, I don't see any harm in that. What do you think? >> Shane: That's kind of where I'm at with it because, you know, I've been to some of these places, back when I used to do all that kind of stuff a little bit more where

we'd go. Go to like, old abandoned jails and stuff. And you'd still find all this like, paperwork and stuff like that and all these like different vials of all these different things. And like, all that stuff was super cool to see. And then, another time, we'd gone to this abandoned school and at some point somebody had tried to set the library on fire. So it was like, it would have been really cool to be able to go into this place, see all the books, you know, starting to decay and everything

a bit. But it just takes one person to screw it up for everybody and try to set this building on fire. And now the foundation is destroyed more. So now it's like, you got to be even more careful when you're trying to explore this place because there's a good chance kind of falling through the floor if you're not paying good attention, but, you know, trying to reserve make it so that process won't happen

faster. People would just kind of have that respect to urban and explore and not destroy in the process. Then, you know, we'd all be a little bit better with it and we maybe would actually get to check these places out with such, without such a heavy police presence. Or, you know, if you're going to destroy stuff, you want to destroy an old computer, you find, like, I don't know, take it outside or something like that. Don't

try to destroy the building itself, like. Yeah, because all of us have those destructive tendencies, but, like, time and place, you know? >> John: Right, right. Yeah. Like, if there's, I don't know, like you said, like an old computer or something. He just busted up our old computer printer. All right, take it outside in the, you know, in the field and bust it up with a bad. Okay. >> Shane: Yeah, just don't try to set the whole library on fire. There's no.

>> John: Right. Yeah, yeah, don't do that. the other thing, too. Don't do something stupid and put, like, satanic symbols or anything just to try to get a rise out of people. To me, that's kind of like a big, that really bugs me because it's just I don't know whether you believe in, satanism or not. I've had satanists on my show before, and they're some of the

nicest people you ever meet in your life. They're just carefree and they're proud of who they are, and they don't want to hurt anybody, and they just want to worship and be left alone. And I'm kind of like, cool. Isn't that the whole basis of life? You know, it's just. And then people, you go into a building, they're satanic. Oh, no. They're doing satanic rituals and killing babies. And what I'm like, come on. Ah, man.

>> Shane: I mean, even on the other side of that, too, it's like people weren't familiar with what stuff is. You never know what you might be opening by putting symbols on the wall. Just trying to be cool or whatever. Because, I mean, depending on the area, like, if it's a place like Northville, that was a mental institution, and people have died there and people were traumatized there, people were abused there. Then by creating these symbols on the wall, you don't know what

you might be opening up. I mean, that's. The other side is, I mean, one people definitely, you're gonna put a bad condition on the place because people are gonna think that people are using it for ritual practice, which may be the case. There might be some people that are doing.

>> John: Sure. >> Shane: On the other side, though, if you're just goofing around trying to be an idiot, it's like you don't know what you could potentially open by putting these symbols on this wall that you don't even understand what they necessarily mean, especially if you get into this kind of stuff. >> John: Absolutely. And I think that. I think, again, I get it. There's a lot of clickbait on the Internet. Oh, there's a demon that ran after me. But maybe there really

is. Maybe you accidentally did something, you know, to bring an evil presence, shadow people or whatever you want to call it. yeah. So just be careful with that. >> Shane: I'm doing those symbols. If you're gonna do spray paint on the walls, like, you know, learn how to do graffiti and do something cool, because I've always found graffiti to be absolutely

beautiful. So it's like instead of doing these stupid little pentagrams everywhere, just to try to get a rise out of people, learn how to do something cool. Do a whole wall where you make this beautiful graffiti mural inside the place. Because I've seen some of the most beautiful graffiti I've ever seen in my entire life inside of some of these abandoned places. So people will like, make their mark by doing that. And it

fits in with the ambience of this place. But if you're just stupidly putting like, you know, everybody likes to draw, you know, the male parts and everything on site, on the walls of places and installs and everything, if you're doing that, you're just ruining the ambiance of the place.

>> John: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you're taking away from some people, like Shane and other people who are really trying to get something out of it, the beauty, and take them pictures and let people see it, because there's a lot of people are like, well, I'm not going in there. You know, for whatever reason, health reasons, you're scared

of, it doesn't matter. But if I can see a picture on the Internet of this old, mental health building or whatever, and what some of the people went through and some of the things I can be like, wow, that's really cool and so sad, but it's art to me. It's something that we need more of out there so you can question certain things, and that's nothing wrong with that.

one other thing. Have you ever been in a place where you may be accidentally, or it just kind of, I don't know, through what you can do with astral projection, finding, a portal in one of these places? >> Shane: I haven't personally myself, as far as like, my astral travel experiences. It was never something that I was able to purposefully do. It was kind of something that would just kind of

happen all on its own. so I'd never actually tried to do these during investigations, but, if I had somebody in the group that know how to do it intentionally during investigations, it's definitely something that I would have wanted to do during these investigations.

But, just another quick side note too. Not that I'm necessarily condoning anybody to go urban exploring, because, reminder, it is technically illegal, but if you ever go and choose to do that on your own, completely on your own free will, without me telling you to do it, because I'm not condoning you to do it, make sure you guys always wear masks or respirators because keep in mind, these old buildings do have lead paint, they have asbestos,

they have all of this kind of stuff. So if you're going to do it, I just always got to put this disclaimer out there. Just make sure you guys are safe and you guys wear masks or whatever. At least, at least wear some type of mask over your face while you're inside these buildings. Just, just a little side note. >> John: Yeah, I love that, Shane. Because when I've done topics on cemeteries and stuff and things like that, again, my spooky friends, it's private property. Please

do not damage anything. Please be very, cordial and nice and respectful. And if it's time for you to leave, just leave. You know, sometimes you'll meet some, I don't know, a caretaker or a cop who might be like, hey, man, it's time to go. Just go. It's okay. You know, I know too.

>> Shane: I mean, if you figure out who owns this property, I know it's a little bit, of extra footwork, but you can always ask if you can look at these places because more often than not, people will let you do it if you ask. I know people don't want to take that extra step, but at least if you ask, you are allowed to be there and you have nothing to worry about in this place.

>> John: Yeah. >> Shane: you can have a conversation with the groundskeeper, you can have a conversation with the security guard. You can ask them about their paranormal experiences. But you block yourself off from being able to do that if you never ask in the first place if you're allowed to be there. And you'd be surprised at how many places will actually let you go and check it out if you ask permission and you're safe about it.

>> John: Yeah, I love it. So that's, that's Shane and John's proposal message for all the orbit explorers and paranormal explorers out there. You know, just kind take an extra five minutes, you know, walk into city hall or whatever you need to do, especially if it's a small town. And just walk in like, I'm in a small town. Nine times out of ten, you just walk into the police station, say, hey, I'm just going to check this out. Is it okay? I could do this. And most

of the time they're like, cool. Okay. Just, you know, make sure you leave when we tell you to leave. Okay. >> Shane: They might think it's cool that you're doing a paranormal investigation again. They might even give you some more stories of stuff that they've seen there or people have reported there and stuff like that. And then again, you ain't got nothing to worry about if you're in the cemetery at night, the cops know why you're there.

You know, they may tell other people to leave, but they might not ask you to leave because you asked permission. And they know that you're respecting the place and you're not there to vandalize or destroy anything. >> John: Yeah, absolutely. I love it. I love it. So let's get to the topic. one of the funniest things

I always, I've done this. I don't know if you've done it with your girlfriend or by yourself or when you were younger, I would always go to, like, one of those haunted houses, you know, we walk through and there's a guy that jumps out and he's in a cheesy, like, I don't know, sheet or something, you know? Okay. Or maybe guy the clown thing. But what if I told you, Shane, you could make an easy $20,000 if you make it through this haunted house? What do you think? You want to try it out?

>> Shane: I would instantly get McKinney manor vibes from the place. So I don't know if I would do it because I would assume that if

they're going to pay you to go through a haunted house, they're not just jumping out and scaring you. They're gonna be doing some other weird stuff. So, yeah, at least for me, like, I get McKinney, McKinney manor vibes from that. >> John: And you are correct. That is our topic, for today. and what I was checking this out because there are a ton, so I'm here from Wisconsin, you're from Michigan. there's a ton of safe, really cool, places you can go to and get scared and have

a great time. I highly recommend doing that. I talked to a couple, actors and actresses on one of my shows who do it, and they've had some paranormal stories too. Like, they're like, whoa, I don't like this. And one of them, she was dressed up as a clown. And I'll just tell this really quickly, Shane. She was dressed up as a clown, and her thing was, it's kind of a field.

And you go through, it's kind of like, I don't know, like haunted field, some whatever. And you would go through this little forest, and her job was to jump out. She's in a little clown out, but she was small. She says, I'm like five foot one some small, and I jump out and I got like a little knife and I just, ah, you know, whatever. and so she was sitting there and she's just waiting by the tree and nobody was coming through. And she's like, you know, that happens sometimes. Just nobody comes

through that night. And you just got to sit there and until they text you on your cell phone and say, hey, okay, you know, people are coming through, they're not coming through. We're gonna close it up. Whatever. So she was just sitting there, was sitting there, kind of bored, playing with her cell phone. And then all of a sudden she heard footsteps. And she's like, okay, get

ready. It might be a little kid. She always says she kind of peeks around the, tree to make sure it's not a little kid, so she doesn't really scare them. you know, just have fun. And so she peeks around the tree and she sees nothing. And she's like, okay. And the footsteps get a little closer. She peeks around the tree again, still sees nothing. She's like, oh, maybe I'm just hearing stuff.

And then all of a sudden she peeks around and then there's this face, and she swears to God, like this black shadowy face right in her face. And she just screamed her head off and went running back into, you know, the, house or whatever they were meeting at. And she told everybody that of course they didn't believe her, but she said, john, I just, it was unbelievable. She said it just was like, just came up right next to me. And she's like, to this day, no one has seen it

other than me. And she says, I can't explain it. I don't know what it was. So I thought that was a really interesting, really interesting story. But she said she kind of quit after that. She said, I'm not doing that again. I don't know. Have you heard anything like that? Shane? Is anybody you've had any guests on who maybe any of these haunted houses and had a paranormal experience?

>> Shane: Anybody that I've talked to on the show. But I do want to point out the fact that they build a lot of these haunted attractions now in buildings that are actually haunted or have been actually haunted. So it's like, we have one in Michigan. That's the Eloise asylum. And it was a pretty, popular spot to be able to go on an urban explore for a while. I had gotten to go there once,

actually, before they turned it into the haunted house that it is now. But, but, people don't realize that again, by doing this stuff where you have these haunted buildings already and then you have actors inside of it that are also doing the haunting thing. Either. One, you're going to do one of two

things. One, you're either pissing off the ghosts that are already there and they're going to go into high gear mode and they're going to try to scare all the actors, or two, nothing was there in the first place and you're just taking advantage of the building, pretending like it's haunted. But more often than not, though, I feel like when you have these prolific haunted buildings, you want to try to build a haunted attraction inside of them.

I don't think it's the best idea for a couple different reasons. One, of course, the building itself is still haunted, so you aren't necessarily in full control of what may potentially happen to your guests, depending on what type of spirit is in the building in the first place. And two, I don't think it's a good idea just because of the aspect of being able to

actually investigate and actually be able to check these places out. Because once they become a haunted attraction, any hope of being able to do any type of, serious investigation or any type of historical, anything for this place is completely out the window. You're not gonna be able to make this place a historical landmark. You're not gonna be able to investigate this place. It's, it's all done and over with. So it may be a haunted building, but now it's just

permanently off the list of anything you're gonna be able to do with it. So, yeah, I mean, take, that how you will, but if you're gonna start up a haunted place, people are coming for the fun,

thick haunted, like just doing a different building. And if you're gonna buy one of these haunted buildings, like do an honest, good historical haunted tour of the building, yes, you can have some actors that pop out, you can still kind of do that scare thing and all that, but at least go for the historical factor of the building instead of just making an all out attraction at that point.

>> John: Yeah, I totally agree. Because, you know, if you truly have a historical haunted place, it's like you said, do a bunch of research, you know, get some guides together and just do that, walk through it and be respectful like we've talked about and everything. And that to me, is a lot more scarier than some guy in a rubber mask jumping out at me with a chainsaw. >> Shane: And then you can do it year round to it. You won't just have to do it

during October. If you do historical haunted tours, you can do that year round. It's more money to make. >> John: Yeah. But on the other hand, you know, again, if you just are looking for something to have a little fun and it's a classic like scary hayride or something like that, that's in farmers field that, you know, there's nothing there. It's just been kind of just a nice little outdoorsy thing. Yeah, go ahead, have some fun with it. Get a little scared. This was a good thing.

Now this bikini manor, boy, this is something I'm going to talk about in a little history. Just chime in, Shane, when you want to. Anything you want to add of maybe you've heard. >> Shane: I, have some beliefs on this place. I don't know if they've ever been confirmed, but at some point I'll throw in what I believe the actual function of this place was.

>> John: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm gonna do a little history. at the end, I'm gonna give a current article about this guy and, boy, it's not good. so McCamy Manor is the creation of Rush McKamey, Russ McKayme, who claims to have a military background. 23 years. According to Newsweek, the experience is built is not your standard. Boo. Haunted house. Per the McKeamey Manor website. A warning on

it reads, and you can go on the website. By the way, there's been some recent changes, which I'll get into later, but this is an audience participation

event in which you will live your horror movie. This is a rough, intense, and truly frightening experience, referred to, though by critics as a torture chamber. The McKeamey Manor website claims the experience is the next evolution in interactive survival horror theater. Each experience is tailored to the participants fears and can last 10 hours. This experience may involve

abductions, assaults and other terrors, all of which, unfortunately can, lead to injuries and other things that are associated with it. Not, some good things. And even as far as a mission goes, experience originally only accepted dog food or funds for animal welfare payment. So that's kind of a good thing. You kind of helping out the local, center, you know, for your dogs, the humane society, other things. >> Shane: I think he was making money another way, though. On a side note.

>> John: Yeah. Now, any monetary donation is recommended, but not mandatory. The experience is also used to offer a $20,000 prize. I thought it went up, but I didn't have time to research. But it's still pretty good for anyone who finished it. But up to this point, no one has finished it. The prize was taken away, one of these days because the owner told WKRN that he thought it was causing people to go through the experience for the wrong reasons. So he's using

again. This guy is little shady, in my opinion. >> Shane: He's got a bunch of lawsuits. He can't be giving out that much money now. >> John: Yeah, we'll get into that. Every moment of the experience is said to be filmed and is allegedly heavily edited to only show the parts online, which you can go. I think I'll check it again here. Maybe I can check here while, I'm here online. that wouldn't put the operation at risk. Remember that, folks. At

risk. Anyone who wants to participate has to meet a long list of requirements. Oh, boy. They must sign a 40 page legal waiver, complete a sports physical, pass, a background check, get a doctor's note, show proof of medical insurance, pass a drug test on the day of the experience. Shane. Okay, yeah. >> Shane: This place, from what I've read and seen from these videos, they'll put stuff in your mouth, they'll shock you, they'll hit you, they'll torture you. Like, there's no

extent they waterboard at this place. Like, from what I've read, the guy who has the ex military background, the guy runs the place. from what I heard, he was supposed to be basically like a government torturer. He would try to torture people to get information out of people. So just another kind of weird backing on this thing is that more than likely this guy is using government torture tactics for this, too. >> John: Yeah, which is okay. I just think it's super easy.

>> Shane: He knows how to push you to where you're not going to die, but we're going to wish that you were dead. >> John: Yeah, right. Okay, so you have to be. Anyone listening? I think this is still happening. You have to be at least 21 years old. if you are 18 to 20 though, Shane, it's okay if your parents approve it. >> Shane: Only if you're a really, really bad kid and military can't. Or military school didn't work. Then this is the next

hope. Bill. You want to be a psycho? This is what you're gonna have to do to people. >> John: I just. My son going to me dad. I'm gonna go to this haunted house. Yeah, that's fine, son. What's it like? Well, they're gonna waterboard me, and then they're gonna beat me, and then they're gonna be like, why didn't I think of that? >> Shane: Just gonna get him to m sign a waiver. You're fine, right? >> John: No, obviously I wouldn't say that, but I just think it's funny

that some parents gonna go, wait a minute. What? They're gonna do what? No, you're not going. Well, that's fine. I'm going. Okay, but they're 18 to 20. They're adults. If they want to say, I'm going, they're adults. There's not much you can do. Parents. I don't get the parent approval, but. >> Shane: Okay, yeah, 18 to, 21, you're legally an adult at that point. Just either tell people no or, like, the whole parent's approval once you're already 18. That's a little weird.

>> John: so here's some of their rules that make me manor. Namely, no running, no touching props or actors, aka fighting back. All right. >> Shane: Yeah. >> John: I know. Using foul language. okay. Or pushing is allowed. those are weird rules. >> Shane: So you're allowed to swear. You're allowed to push. You just can't hit back. >> John: Yeah. Okay. >> Shane: Is that really a war movie experience? Because the survivor

usually has to fight back at some point. So you're not really getting that full experience that you're claiming to give. >> John: Yeah. >> Shane: You should be able to fight back. If they're gonna torture you should be able to fight back. As long as you don't kill them, you're good. >> John: Yeah, I mean, I get. I should be able to punch the guy in the mouth if he's getting a little, like, rough with me, you know? Come on. Anyway, so, one of the things it a house

experience. At first, I don't know if it's still like this. but it's changed over the years, so it must have. This article said that used to be, like, in a warehouse. So they originally had them in a warehouse, Shane, where they would have all these actors around and they run you through all this stuff now. Why? and they've changed it over the years, by the way. I don't think they still have that, but it's still unclear why McKamey started it.

Some sources say that you were talking about this, that his experience dates back to his military. they said that, like, he had some experience in the military, that he doesn't really talk about that. Maybe he did some shady sucked, and people are like, what does that mean? yeah, I don't know what that means, but he's like, kind of. He always skirts around the issue. This guy. He always like, yeah, maybe I did that. Maybe I did it. I don't

know. And, you know the government's not going to tell you anything, right, Shane? They're not going to be like, oh, yeah, he tortured innocent, civilian civilians in, you know, see, if this guy. >> Shane: Didn'T have government ties, this place would have. I thought it was already completely shut down, but this guy didn't have government ties. I feel like it would have been shut down the moment it started. >> John: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, he

originally. And I totally forgot this. He originally. This is, by the way, in Tennessee, but he originally had it in San Diego. I think this is really funny. He had the experience in a windowless van in his backyard, which I think it's super funny. Like, you're like, okay, where's this really scary haunted experience? Follow me to my backyard. Oh, it's in your backyard. Oh, that's interesting. Get into the van.

>> Shane: I've heard a few things that it starts in the van, and he doesn't want people to actually know where the real location is. So he starts it in the van, then takes you to the real location. >> John: That makes more sense. Yeah, that makes more sense. >> Shane: but he doesn't want people to know where the real location is. >> John: M. by the way, this is one of the. Just kind of skipping around here. Just so you're like, wait, wait, whoa,

whoa, whoa. What is this guy doing? And how is hedgest away with it? And like you said, shane, government ties, it's a little strange, so. But the IR's did, in 2012, filed a lien against McKamey's house, citing $252,000 unpaid income taxes. Okay, I don't know why you're not paying your income tax, dude. Sound like you got a kind of a sweet ride here. >> Shane: he's only taken in dog food. >> John: Yeah, the dog food and the man, this guy. Oh, well.

>> Shane: Or unless he's making money off the back end, which, again, I can still throw that theory in here at some point, but. >> John: Yeah, yeah, right. And so he, They found that. And according to, police records, that he wasn't compliant about his business operation. basically used technical terms. He's in a residential zone. He can have a business, and you know what he's doing. He needs a special license and everything. So he said, okay,

screw you guys. And he moved to Illinois in 2014, but the public opposition prevented that relocation. So I could see him going in the. Can you see this in a city hall? And him going, okay, guys, look, this is what we're going to do. I'm going to put people in a windowless van, I'm going to drive them out to somewhere, I'm going to torture them. And it's really scary. What do you guys think? >> Shane: Not in our town. >> John: No. No.

So they kicked him out. So then in 2017, Bikamey moved his experiences to the south, where I don't know why these guys would allow him, but. Okay. But he claims he did it because high cost living and, the house is close to his neighbors. Yeah. If I. How would you like to just be sitting there watching tv with your girlfriend, wife, whoever, just, you know, hanging back and just hear blood curdling screams?

>> Shane: It's like this is an every night occurrence. We just learned to tune it out. Sorry. >> John: Yeah. Put your headphones on, hun. We're good. so today, though, the experience does take place in three phases. The first takes place in a barn in his Summertown, Tennessee property, which redditors and YouTubers believe is located in Duke Park State community. OkaY. the second phase takes place in Nashville, which. That's super interesting. why Nashville? I'm not really

sure. And the third place is in

Huntsville, Alabama, at an, undisclosed location on a multi acre property. So follow me, just really quickly. Okay, so they start you out, in Tennessee, in this kind of small town. Then they move you to the big city in Nashville, and then they take you all the way to Alabama. I'm not following. Like, they gotta give you the experience. >> Shane: It's like you're getting trafficked. You get traffic from a normal town, you

get moved through the city, and then they move you out in the middle of nowhere. They want to give you the full horror experience. Like, you're also being

abducted, right? >> John: I guess. But m I've been to all places except for Alabama and Summerstown, Tennessee. But I've been in Nashville. I don't know when you could get away with certain things, but. Okay, so now you're asking the screaming. >> Shane: Over all the live music, right? That's the intention, yeah. >> John: Everybody's just jamming out, having a good time, having a few drinks. Hey, I hear you, but. So now you're saying to yourself, wait a minute, these guys

moving people around out of state? But he's probably got their permission because they signed like a 40 page document and their parents said it was okay. Okay, so you're really saying, how does this guy get away with it? Right? So people who have shared their true, terrifying accounts, they said they have been nearly drowned, they have been buried alive, while, there is a safe word. How do you say a safe word when you're buried alive?

>> Shane: Or when you have a bunch of stuff shoved in your mouth and they tape it shut? >> John: Right? >> Shane: You gotta learn the safe word in sign language. That's the only way you're gonna get it. If your hands aren't tied up behind your back, that is. >> John: Maybe the pounding on the coffin is often enough. My God. So people, like I said, you know, they've been almost drowned. They've been buried alive. also, people have walked away with bruises,

cuts. The mental strain on some of these people is unbelievable. A lot of these people have to go to therapy for a long time to get this experience, like, over, because he just takes it too far. he doesn't understand. Hey, man, there's a point where you're scaring people, which is fine. And there's a point where you're torturing people. Right, jane? >> Shane: Yep. >> John: Different.

>> Shane: But it's like, one of those weird things where it's like people know what they're signing up for. But at the same time, though, like, everybody thinks that they're tough and

they can do it until they're actually in that situation. Because the fact that those videos have come out of that place, even if they have taken out the worst parts, if you're seeing, like, the not bad parts, and that's already, like, as bad as it is, like, any person that's mildly, like, intelligent on their own safety is not going to go to this place to begin with.

>> John: Yeah. So one of the things, too, is people, have signed an online petition circulated around, they said they have left with fractured bones. Like I said, mental trauma, bruises, facial swelling. McKamey has denied it. He just said, no, they signed up. They should know. He also said it's all smoke and mirrors. However, in 2023, if you have Hulu, there's a documentary which,

became a manor. it's entitled monster inside America's m most extreme haunted house, which I watched before I did, this, episode. So it features five people who have been previously been guests of the manor. Like, why would you come back? Okay. And included footage of tours that were taken by McKamey and posted online in some of the videos. Check this out, Shane. People can be seen getting dragged by chains, locked in the confined spaces while water pours in.

Also, I saw, like, one guy was like, Like, he was blacked out. Like, they took these goggles on him and then they put tape all over them. Them. And then they change. They handcuffed, them. And literally, like we said, waterboarded them. They had them on a, believe it or not, a picnic table, and they just, like, held him down, and they just poured water on him, and they just. They had people, like, on the side of him just screaming at him. This

guy's like. And they're just dumping the water on him. They're like, you know, stuff. And this guy's, like, started crying. He's like, get this off me. Get this off me, he says, freaking out. And they were like, okay, calm down, calm down, calm down. And they got it off of him, and the guy just got up, and he was just. He just looked like a wild eyed animal. And I'm like, holy crap, man. What are you doing? and it's worse.

Some other things, too. I don't know. It's just terrible what this guy's doing, in my opinion. And like I said, thousands of people signed a petition in 2019 to shut down the McKamey manor. And deputies have also been called several times. There's been criminal investigations. but, you know, and also, I should say march of 2018, they brought in, like, district, attorney's office, and they tried to shut him down, but he still remained

open. So before I get to the latest thing on him, which he probably would not be open that much, anything you want to add? >> Shane: So I just want to throw in my theory behind this whole thing, because it's almost scary than the actual thing itself. So there's a couple different theories. Either one, the fact that if this guy used to do torturing for the government, I feel like that's one of those things that once it gets turned

on, it never gets turned off. So he has this urge that he needs to satisfy. So either one, he did it for, that means because the switch has been flipped, and he just needs to satisfy that urge for the rest of his life because he's clearly a, mentally disturbed individual, or on the other side, talking about what I said about money off the back end, everybody knows the

depravity of the dark web and of the deep web. So I think that it's definitely a possibility that this guy could have been releasing the full tapes as almost like a pay per view type of thing on the dark web, where people are paying for this kind of stuff. And that's how he got around it, where he would only take in dog food because he didn't need the money, because he was making the real money, again, off the dark web, which could have been another reason why he wouldn't have paid the taxes

because they would have questioned where that money came from. So I think that there's a lot darker of an intention behind this. I don't see a person doing this without, one, their own sadistic needs being met, or two, they're filling somebody else's sadistic needs and in turn making money. That's the only way that I can see it coming around to this. So either, one, this guy's doing it for

himself, or two, he's doing it for an audience somewhere on the dark web, around the deep web. >> John: Yeah, yeah, and I totally agree with that. one of the things is, so, like I said, there's been numerous criminal investigations and stuff like that.

And one of the things was, after the documentary came out last year, like I said, tennessee attorney general, Jonathan Sturmetti sent a letter to Russ McKamey requesting various documents and information pertaining to some of the claims of the past participant in this letter. Ah, cementi raised concerns, particularly taking issue with claims that there was no way to stop the tour because, you know, basically saying you can't stop, which doesn't make any

sense. And that actually, he would give anybody $20,000 to complete the tour. Just really quick sidelight. they have brought in, like, Navy seals, army Rangers, green berets supposedly have done this, and no one has made it, which I think is okay. Those guys, you know, they kind of put through some hard stuff. But anyway, so McKamey responded by filing a 32 page lawsuit against the Tennessee attorney,

a few months later. He claims the attorney general's request for his information violates the first, 4th, fifth, and 14th amendment rights, but as part of a larger effort to prevent him from engaging in lawful conduct on, his private property. So now we talked about the government, and now it's interesting that they're starting to push back. So that's. That's interesting to me. What do you think, Jane?

>> Shane: You got to try to find a way to cut off their ties to it. I mean, they could have trained this guy, but they got to try to make it seem like they have no involvement past that. So, I mean, it's one of those things where sometimes you get involved in order to control the narrative. >> John: Yeah, I totally agree. I totally agree. So you're talking about him being psycho. Well, this just happened fairly recently.

I believe in July 19 of this year, sheriff's office show Russ Alan McKimmy was arrested at its Summertime Summertown home on Friday, July 19, after allegedly assaulting his girlfriend. He was booked into jail on $1,000 bond in order to have no contact with the victim. However, more charges have been filed against a Keemy manor owner accusing him of him trying to kill his girlfriend on more than one occasion. The first incident was reported on Wednesday, July 17, a day before the alleged

assault. In an arrest affidavit, investigators point to McKameye strangling the victim, to a point she lost consciousness during a domestic altercation at his summertime home. A second altercation reportedly took place on the same day, and McKemy was brought into jail. And then on Friday, July 19, police said McKemy raped the victim and strangled her. Like I said, finally to lose consciousness. And now, this was the second

time. So his additional chargers, his additional chargers now put his bond, over $100,000. >> Shane: So sounds well deserved to me at that point because, I mean, the other side of it, too, is that think about how many people could have gone through this place that had no ties to anybody. And if you have to fill out all this paperwork beforehand, I mean, he could have purposely had some people go through this place that he wasn't intending to make it through no matter

what. And if they had no ties to him, then it could have been something that nobody knew about. Because if he has all these secret locations that nobody knows about, I mean, I don't think it's completely out of the question that maybe some of these were intentionally pushed a little bit farther. If they knew there wasn't gonna be any tie back and they could have just disposed of it and he was making money on the dark web, it's probably just some extra money. If you push it to that extent.

>> John: I believe it. So I am looking right now, the McKamey manor website is still up. he's. It does. It's like, really cheesy. It's like, made by, like, an 8th grader. If an 8th grader could make. >> Shane: Hey, nowadays, 8th graders probably can do that. >> John: Probably could. Well, yeah, but. Yeah. But I guess I should say, like, maybe kindergartener, but they probably can do better job than this. >> John: But anyway, it's still up and everything. Here's the thing.

I think, too. I also think I. That he's gonna be caught with some things because I think on the dark web, what if he brings in an attractive woman and, does things that people pay for it or brings an attractive man or a couple or something? I think it goes to that. >> Shane: Yeah. Red room status. Red rooms are one of those things where people wouldn't be able to get into them unless you had the link to begin with. So nobody that he didn't want to know about it would know about it.

>> John: Yeah, I think it goes to that, that status also. I don't know if they're still called this, but back in the day, there was a thing that they used to make. They could not prove if they ever found a real one, but there are conspiracies. There are real snuff films out there. So a snuff film is where a person is killed on film, actually killed.

>> Shane: Just to somewhat confirm that, maybe possibly confirm it, I have, one buddy, who's another fellow podcaster, who at one point was going to work for the CIA, doing all of this, like, dark web type stuff and trying to expose all these places. And, he quickly learned that a lot of the people that were there were doing it for access to darker things and not actually trying to do it to

stop it. And, he at least, and he's somebody that I have a lot of trust in, claims that these snuff films are 100% real. And he also went into the extent to say that there are also these films that people pay for where if they have a nightmare, they want to see somebody else go through, they will pay for this nightmare to happen to this person. And in the end, they end up getting,

murdered at the end of it. And, one of these films that he had mentioned was one of these that a lot of people have probably seen on YouTube. is this really weird film where there's these people wearing these, like, funko pop looking heads. They're in this all white room. There's a, there's like a desk, and there's this guy eating cereal with a really big spoon. >> John: Yes.

>> Shane: He has uncovered the other side of that. And he says that that is one of these, nightmare fuel films where it's basically, again, somebody who has a lot of money will have a horrible nightmare, and they will pay to have somebody enact this horrible nightmare onto somebody else. So it's another weird extension of snuff films. >> John: Oh, wow. yes, there's some out there on YouTube. A lot of they've m been taken down,

I think. I'm not really sure. There was one where there was a, chair in a room, and you saw the chair. I think this was like. It could have been nightmare view or could just been someone. And then you see a guy, the next scene where this guy is nearly naked and he's chained to the chair, and you can hear a voice off camera, like kind of yelling at him and stuff. And then they go back in and they show him like he's

like beaten up. And it's really hard to tell if it's makeup or whatever because it's black and white. It's really grainy. >> Shane: Is it the films? Because there's this, horror movie that came out a while ago and it was basically all supposed to be like that grainy, dark web type stuff. But a lot of it gets passed around on YouTube and people say it's dark web films, but it's actually like from this weird film that was all intended to just be a movie. But I don't know if that was a

scene from it or not, but it just be. The grainy black and white just always reminds me of the pocopsy film. Or cupcakes, whatever the movie was called. >> John: Yeah, could be. That could be too. the other thing was, there were these, I think this was in, the UK and this is made up, but they did a really nice job. It

will scare you. These boys are just, you see them just in their car and they're just eating teenagers and they're being goofy, drinking beer and they're like driving down a road and then one of them says something to the effect of like, oh, this is a haunted road. Let's turn around, blah, blah, blah. So you're like, okay, I get

it. Cheesy horror movie. But they did a really nice job because they, they're going, they get out of their car and they're going down these train tracks. And when they get down these train tracks, there's like this weird figure at the end and they're like, oh, you know, they run screaming, they run out of there. And when they go get in their car, the figure is right in front of their car. And then you just see like this camera moving around and stuff.

You see like blood and stuff like that. And I'm like, okay, well, that's really well done. the blood looked fake, by the way. That's why I'm thinking fake. but anyway, there's a lot of stuff on YouTube that is fine, but there's a lot of stuff out there that is not fine. And I think McKamey is taking something like that and saying, and someone telling them, but I want real scared. I want real torture. I want real blood. I want real, I want it to be real. And they get into that

and that's horrible. I couldn't even it. I, don't know. What do you think? >> Shane: There are other places that do stuff like this, just not to the extent of McKamey Manor. So, like, if somebody is one of those weird individuals that decide that they want to do a place like this, you know, maybe don't go for the number one top, like, within a lawsuit place. Like, there's a play. There's, like, one called lockout that they do in a couple different

cities. And it's the same kind of, like, torture style, but it just doesn't get as crazy or as in depth. And there are even some haunted houses where you can pay well, obviously you pay for any haunted house, but there's some that you can sign a waiver and they're allowed

to, like, touch you. It's not. They're not gonna beat the crap out of you, but they can do stuff where, like, you're walking down a hallway with a group of people, and they can snatch one person off and make them go through, like, a different area. Like, there's other alternatives to getting the crap eaten out of yourself if you

want an extra scare. But do some research and do one of the ones that you're not gonna go home possibly with, you know, bruises, cuts, scrapes, and emotional trauma forever, do the ones that, you know, it's going to be scarier than a normal haunted house, but you're not going to go home with emotional baggage forever. Like, grabbing somebody off the back of the group, that's one

thing that sounds fun. But if you grab somebody off the back of the group and you're taping their mouth shut and dragging them off, that's a whole other level. >> John: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a whole new level. And, you know, this year, when you're out there, just be. Just be careful. and, you know, you want to give a good scare. There's plenty of things to give you a good, good scare, but like we said, do it safely. Have some fun with it. and, you know, don't try to get

mixed up into anything. Hopefully, it's sad enough out there. We don't want anybody to get hurt. So, while Shane, this is a lot. We got quite a bit here, and I loved it. Like, I said I could talk to you for hours, man. You seem like a very interesting guy. Would love to have you back on some time, but why don't you tell my spooky friends? you've got to talk a little bit about what's going on, going on there, but tell me what you got

coming up. Here for or you know, things associated with new stuff. >> Shane: So, as far as all my stuff goes, gonna be doing a lot of Halloween type themed episodes for bizarre encounters, increase of all reality. I kind of just have stuff drop as it drops. But I'm definitely have set up a lot of paranormal investigators and stuff to come on for the month of October. But one exciting thing that we got going on for the month of October is

in West Virginia at the ransom civic center. That's going to be October 26. my co host Orin and I are going to be speaking, and I'm seeing, the cryptid Halloween, snarly out scripted Halloween three to get the title correctly. and it's going to be a lot of fun. It's all Halloween type themed stuff. he's going to have a haunted house there. He's going to have us as speakers. He's going to have a bunch of vendors and all that kind

of stuff. But, that's going to be a lot of fun. And hopefully I get to see a lot of people out there for that. And if anybody wants information for that, you guys can always go and check out my pages, and I'll be posting up until the day of the event, that is. And that's in about three weeks. Not sure when this is dropping, but about three weeks from now. >> John: Okay. Yeah, I would try. I've been telling all my

guests I'm going to try to get as many episodes out this October, so everyone has a good spooky time and go check out things. thank you so much. If you ever want me on your show, I always tell my spooky friend guests, you know, I'm more than welcome to, you know, I can talk about, my favorite two stories are to talk about, Jeffrey Dahmer, where my cousin's friend almost was killed by him, and Ed Gein, where a friend of a friend, his, aunt was babysat by edge. So there you go.

>> Shane: Well, yeah, man, I'd absolutely love to have you come on my side and share some of your stories and stuff too. And just a quick thing to throw in here, because I just made that encounter. Ah reports hotline. If anybody wants to call that again, it's 313364, 1551. And if anybody wants to check out any of my podcasts or anything. I started doing everything under open minds media, which is what omm stands for, for the

encounter reports. so I made a link so that everybody can find all my podcasts under open minds media. and that link for that is l a n k t r p d e. Open minds, underscore media. And if you look up, increase all reality with Shane Jones or bizarre encounters with Shane and Orin on any of your podcatcher apps, we should pop up on the there. >> John: Awesome. Thank you, Shane, for taking the extra time. I truly enjoyed this. I hope you had a nice time, too.

>> Shane: Absolutely, man. West boys got all got to stick together. >> John: We got to stick together. You bet. So, yeah, stay spooky for Halloween and stay safe. Thanks, Shane. >> Shane: I.