Hi everyone. Welcome back to the logical. Bible study. So in particular, I want to welcome those who are new to the podcast who started listening recently. I hope you're enjoying it and getting a lot out of it. What we do in this podcast is we look at the Gospel reading from the day's Catholic mass and we try to provide an analysis or an exegesis of the literal sense of the text in accordance with what the Catholic Church tells us we should do when we study the Bible.
So we're looking today at John chapter 3 verse. 7 to 15 and we're continuing where yesterday's reading finished. Jesus said to Nicodemus. Do not be surprised. When I say you must be born from above, the wind blows wherever it, pleases, you hear it sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from, or where it is going. That is how it is with all who are born of the spirit. How can that be possible? Ask Nicodemus, you a teacher in Israel and you do not know these things replied.
Jesus, I tell you, most solemnly, we speak only about what we know and witness only to what we have seen and yet you people reject our evidence If you do not believe me, when I speak about things in this world, how are you going to believe me? When I speak to you about
Heavenly things? No one has gone up to heaven, except the one who came down from heaven, the son of man, who is in heaven and the son of man must be lifted up as Moses lifted up, the serpent in the desert, so that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.
So the context is just, before this Jesus has started, this conversation with Nicodemus, his Nicodemus is one of the leading Jews and he's a Pharisee. And he comes to Jesus because he's interested in what Jesus has to say about God. And he wants to know more, and Jesus has just told him, unless you were born from above. You cannot see, the kingdom of God, verse seven and eight. I'll read them out. Jesus said to Nicodemus, do not be surprised. When I say you must be born from above.
Above the wind blows wherever it, pleases you hear it sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. That is how it is with all who are born of the spirit. So, verse seven and eight, we looked at yesterday was part of yesterday's reading. So if you miss that, then please go back and have a look at yesterday's episode, and we'll start our analysis at verse 9. So, Nicodemus says in reply, how
can this be possible? So, Nicodemus still doesn't understand how a person can be born from above. He just is not able to grasp how the Holy Spirit works. It's just too foreign to him and Jesus says you are teaching in is Israel, and you do not know these things. So Jesus has a point here because Nicodemus and the other Pharisees should know their Old Testament, really well.
And Jesus is saying here, while if you knew your Old Testament, you would know the basics about the Heaven and the spiritual world. Now, those things aren't talked about. Clearly, there's only one reference to the holy spirit in the Old Testament. And heaven isn't really a concept that's made particularly clear in the Old Testament either but it is still sort of
hinted there. And Jesus is saying that really As a leading teacher, you should know about these things, the Pharisees hold Spiritual Authority, over the Jewish people and Jesus is holding them to a holding him to an account here. He's saying, look, you've been appointed by God to God and teach the scriptures, you really should know this stuff. Some people have taken.
This isn't insult. When he says, you're a teacher in Israel and you don't know these things, it could be, but in context, it's probably more of a challenge she wants to invite Nicodemus to think, deeper and have another go. So, Jesus goes on, he says, I tell you most solemnly, and as we often say in this podcast, that means is about to say, something really important. We speak only about what we know and witness only to what we have seen.
Now this is interesting because Jesus, he uses the word, we who's he talking about, he could be talking about the apostles, but in context, that doesn't seem right, it seems that because he's just been talking about the Holy Spirit. The one he says, we, he probably means himself and the Holy Spirit, So off, usually, when Jesus talks about this kind of language of, I've been with the father and that sort of thing, he's just talks about I as the second person of the Trinity.
That's usually how he talks. But here he says, we we have seen these things. And I think that because he's been talking about the Holy Spirit, it makes sense that the other person in the we is the holy spirit. So let's read the verse again and see if it makes sense. We speak only about what we know and witness only to what we have seen. So I think that if Jesus is talking here, we as in me and the Holy Spirit, he's saying we
have seen this from the father. We have received information from the father and have communicated that to you and that's very much in line with other things. Jesus says in the Gospel of John On.
So if that's the right interpretation, that Jesus is doing, we as in me and the Holy Spirit, then it's quite a profound verse in terms of understanding that intimate relationship between the three persons of the Trinity because it teaches that the Son and the Holy Spirit receive all the information from seeing the father face to face.
What's Jesus point in context though when he says we speak only about what we know and witness only to what we have seen his basic point to Nicodemus, is he as the Son, and the Holy Spirit reveal to people on Earth, what the father has revealed to them nothing more. So Jesus, basically means you should believe me since I don't make anything up. Everything I say comes directly from the father.
That seems to be what he's getting at, and that's why he is encouraging Nicodemus to listen to him. He's Saying I'm only telling you what I've heard from the father, but Jesus goes on. And yet you people reject our evidence or testimony is some translations, have it. So Jesus here says that the Pharisees you people and the other Jewish teachers are rejecting, the things that Jesus has been saying and they don't accept that he comes from God.
So they reject what Jesus is trying to get across. Jesus says, if you do not believe me when I speak about things in this world now that would include things like how the Holy Spirit works on Earth that would count as a thing in this world. How he going to believe me, when I speak to you about Heavenly things, such as the inner life of the Trinity. So if Nicodemus doesn't understand that the Holy Spirit Works in people on Earth, then Jesus is saying, well, you haven't got a chance of
understanding what it means. For me to say, I'm from the father and the complexities of the hole. A spirit and The Trinity that seems to be what he's saying, he's saying to Nicodemus, look, you have to start with the basics. If you don't understand this basic teaching that the Holy Spirit Works in people's lives, then you're not going to be able to progress much further. Remember Nicodemus, wants to get into the kingdom and Jesus is telling him where he needs to go in order to get into the
kingdom. Jesus then follows up with this interesting phrase. No one has gone up to heaven except the one who came down from heaven, the son of man. So firstly, this first some people have taken it to mean, the Jesus is teaching that no one has ever gone to heaven, ever at the time, that Jesus is speaking. There's no souls in heaven. That could be what he means. If we'd need to spend a bit of time, talking about purgatory and Hades and how those things fit, At the time of Jesus.
But even then, I don't think Jesus is necessarily teaching that there's no souls in heaven in context. His basic point. When he says, no one has gone up to heaven. Except the one who came down from heaven, his basic point, is that no one has gone to heaven, and come back to tell us about it. That's what he's saying. No one has done that. Except for the one exception, the one who came down from heaven, who Jesus Calls the son of man.
Why does Jesus bring this up? Well, think about what he's just been saying to Nicodemus. He's been saying if you don't believe me about Earthly things, how will you believe me about Heavenly things? So, Jesus point, is that the only man who can reveal Heavenly things, is the one who has gone up to heaven and has come back from Heaven. That is the son of, man. That's Jesus teaching here. And the son of man is a title for the Messiah.
So, Jesus teaching here, and this is a new teaching is that the Messiah has in fact, descended from Heaven. He's not just a man born on Earth. Who is given a special Blessing by God. The Messiah has actually descended from heaven and has come to reveal information about heaven. There's some books that didn't make it into the Old Testament. For example, estrous, which is a prophecy book, talks kind of, in similar language about how the Messiah is going to be sent from
heaven. And Jesus here, confirms that Now there's some translational difficulties here. This is a complex verse as is often the case with the Gospel of John is theirs is verses where Jesus says, things that require a lot of unpacking and meditating on. And we could spend a lot of time talking about this. Our lectionary has this sentence. This way, no one has gone up to heaven.
Except the one who came down from heaven, the son of man who is in heaven, Many manuscripts have don't put it as the son of man who is in heaven. They just say the son of man. And I think that's better it. The lectionary translation doesn't make sense. When it says the son of man who is in heaven, Jesus, clearly teaches later in the Gospel of John, that he's the son of man then that he's not currently in
heaven. He's on Earth. So I think that's a, probably a scribal error in the copy of the text that the lectionary is based on. So a better translation there is The one who came down from heaven, the son of man. Jesus here, doesn't identify himself as the son of man, though. It is strongly implied. And later in the Gospel of John Jesus would be more explicit. That he is the son of man.
So Jesus now uses what he said as a teaching moment and he's going to give one example from the Old Testament of how physical realities can be signs of spiritual realities. Because remember, what his goal is in this conversation, he wants to help Nicodemus understand, understand spiritual realities and he Knows that Nicodemus Knows His Old Testament reasonably. Well, Verse 14, the son of man must be lifted up. Now, many would have taken that to mean sort of military language.
As in the son of man, the Messiah is going to be a military, glorious leader. He'll be lifted up but we later, learn from other things that John says in his gospel that when Jesus says the son of man must be lifted up. It's a reference to the crucifixion. Basically, the word here for lifted up his hip, so in Greek, and that has two different meanings. It can mean to be Lift it up from the ground or to be
exalted. Both of those occurred on the cross both meanings, apply to what happened to Jesus on the cross. And here, there's a reference to the suffering servant of Isaiah 52:13. You all know the suffering servant passage one of the things it says there in verse 13 is that the servant will be lifted high and exceedingly glorified. So, both meanings of hip. So are found in Isaiah 52:13, and Jesus Or feels both meanings on the cross.
So, Jesus here gives a prediction that he's going to die on the cross and be lifted up and exalted. But Jesus goes further. The son of man must be lifted up as Moses lifted up, the serpent in the desert. So, we want to understand a bit about what's this reference to Moses? Lifted up the serpent in the
desert? A lot of people know a lot about Moses life, particularly the book of Exodus, but we're less familiar with the book of numbers and Jesus is referring to something Moses. Does in Numbers chapter 21 Verses 4 to 9. And what's going on in this chapter is the Israelites are in the wilderness and they're being disobedient. They're disobeying God. And so God sends these snakes as punishments for their sin.
The people are dying from these snake bites and they cry out to Moses. And they say, to Moses, please intercede on our behalf to God. So Moses does and then God tells Moses to make a brass snake, to actually, craft a brass snake and then put it on a high pole. And then when the Israelite people who have been bitten, look at the poll, they will be healed. It's a very strange thing.
But that's what God does he makes Moses, he doesn't heal people instantaneously, he makes them look at the bronze, serpent on the pole, God could have healed them in any way he wanted. But the idea of course, is the sin, sorry snakes represents sin. And so God makes them look at this symbol of sin, this big serpent, the symbol of sin. And when they look at the serpent, the idea is that people recognize themselves as Sinners. And then they're healed and they don't die.
So, it's kind of their way of accessing forgiveness, almost forgiveness, and healing. So God could have done it lots of ways. But here, notice what he does, he chooses to have a visible sign in front of their eyes. The Israelites he wants them to look at something visible and be healed through looking at that visible thing. So it's almost sacramental spiritual healing through a physical reality that God puts in place.
Now, God's reasons for doing that and never unpacked in the Old Testament, what we're saying here about it, representing sin and things. The Old Testament, doesn't say that, that's just our speculation, but here, even though the Old Testament, doesn't talk about the reason why God put The serpent on the pole and made them look at it. Jesus gives it an explanation here. So something which hasn't been Revisited since 1500 BC. Jesus, now explains what was going on there.
So as Moses lifted up, the serpent, in the desert, the son of man must be lifted up. So what's the similarity here, between, Moses, lifted up the serpent on the pole, in the wilderness and the son of, man, Jesus being lifted up on the cross. Well, I think there's three main similarities here. And this is quite profound. Snakes are a symbol of sin and so the snakes are killing people in the wilderness as a result of their sin.
And the similarity with the Jesus is sin, kills people spiritually, just a snakes kill people literally, secondly, Moses sets up a snake for them to look at, which is a symbol of the seriousness of their sin. Jesus lifted up on the cross is a symbol of the seriousness of our sin of all people sin. We're supposed to look at Jesus and see that as a symbol of joy. And how serious it is thirdly by looking at the snake on the pole with the people were healed physically.
And when people took look to Jesus on the cross, they are healed spiritually and given eternal life. So, as Christians based on what Jesus teaches here, we believe that God set up that incident of the serpent on the pole to point towards final salvation, which Jesus would bring on the cross, 1,500 years later, Jesus deliberately did things that way
in the desert. Hurt to point people towards the final fulfillment, which is Jesus, and that's fascinating for us as Christians, who believe the Old Testament is only fully revealed in the New Testament. And Jesus. Finishes by saying, Moses lifted up, the serpent in the wilderness just as the son of man will be lifted up so that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life and that directly Echoes.
What happens in The Book of Numbers which The Book of Numbers in that scene, says anyone who looks on the serpent will be healed. Old. Whereas here, it's anyone who believes may have eternal life in him believes. You've heard me talk about this before on the podcast believes in the Jewish context. First century didn't mean intellectual assent as in. I agree with this statement. It meant complete.
Trust putting your whole life. Trusting it into this belief system about Jesus. And he mentions, he eternal life. Anyone who believes may have eternal life and that's something which is unpacked, a lot in the Gospel of John. It's a major theme. In the Gospel of John, eternal life.
According to Jesus, carries the idea of deep Supernatural, intimacy with God, both in this life and in the next, and John later expressly says that the reason he wrote his gospel so that people can have eternal life. That's what he wants. People to get out of reading the Gospel of John, So why does Jesus use the example of the serpent right now at this point in the conversation with Nicodemus, as we do an exegesis on it.
I think we can say that Jesus is teaching Nicodemus, that the example of the serpent, in the wilderness is an example of an Earthly thing, which signifies a spiritual reality. He knows Nicodemus knows the story about the serpent in the wilderness. So he talks to him about that and wants Nicodemus to realize that that was pointing to a deeper spiritual reality. He wants has to see the scriptures in a new spiritual way so that he can become closer to understanding the things of God.
That's why Jesus brings up that example. So it's actually an act of compassion. He knows that Nicodemus is struggling a bit with these spiritual Concepts. So Jesus gives him a physical event that he knows Nicodemus will be aware of, and get him to be anchored in that, Jesus continues, his conversation with
Nicodemus after this. But that's all we have today in today's lecture, nari the very next thing he says to Nicodemus is for God. So loved the world that he gave his only son, John 3:16 the most famous verse in the Bible and we're going to look at that in. Tamara's podcast. So, where is this developed in the catechism? There's a few places where we hear a reference to this passage from John. There's a couple that we looked at yesterday paragraph 5 to 6 and 591.
And then there's a few more paragraph 4. To 3 is a summary of what Christians believe about Jesus. And in amongst that, it says that Jesus was a carpenter by trade, who died crucified in Jerusalem under the procurator Pontius Pilate during the reign of Emperor Tiberius. He is the Eternal son made, man, he came from God, descended from heaven and came in the flesh. So that there is a quote, from John chapter 3 here. So that's what Catholics believe is, that Jesus wasn't just a man.
He was the second person of the Trinity that descended from God. Paragraph 440 is a similar reference to Jesus coming down from heaven. In the discussion about who the Christ is paragraph, 661 is a discussion about the Ascension and the talks about this verse here. From John chapter 3, about no one has ascended to heaven.
And he is how the catechism uses that verse paragraph. 661 this final stage stays closely linked to the first, that is to his descent from heaven, in the in Incarnation, only the one who came from the father can return to the father Christ. Jesus quote. No one has ascended into heaven, but he who is descended from Heaven. The son of man, unquote, left to its own natural Powers Humanity, does not have access to the father's house to God's life and
happiness. Only Christ can open to man's such access that we his members might have confidence that we too shall go, where he our head and our Us has preceded us. So, that's a really awesome paragraph from the catechism. It says that Justice. Jesus, descended from heaven in the Incarnation. He eventually ascended back. There Heaven is his home. And as a result of him, his Ascension, we as Christians now have access to Heaven, as well.
Lastly paragraph to 130 is in the discussion about the Ten Commandments and in the discussion about the Commandment, you shall not make for yourself a Graven image. It references what Jesus says here about making the serpent in the wilderness because think about it in the Book of Numbers in when Moses is commanded to make this bronze, serpent essentially that's making a Graven image of something. So you could say that God is commanding Moses to make an idle
almost. And that's exactly the catechism talks about it in these terms, although, God bands images of himself already in the Old Testament, God ordained or permitted, the making of images, that pointed symbolically towards salvation by the Incarnate Word. So, it was with the bronze serpent, the Ark of the Covenant and the cherubim. So the catechism teaches that although God does Pro The Israelites from making images of
God, he allows exceptions. When God specifically tells them to build something that is in a sense, going to foreshadow the coming Messiah. So that's an interesting understanding. There's more we could say about this, but we'll leave it there for today. Hopefully, you learn something new. If you have, please share it around and we'll see you again tomorrow.