Hi everyone. Welcome back again to The Logical Bible study podcast. Today we have quite a long reading so we're going to get straight into it. This is the reading you would hear at today's mass so it's the Gospel reading and then we're going to go through it verse by verse to see if we can understand what it means. And there's a whole lot of really interesting stuff. Smart. And so, Mark chapter 9 verses 38 to 43 Verse 45 and verses 47 to 48.
John said to Jesus Master. We saw a man who is not one of us, casting out devils in your name. And because he was not one of us, we try to stop him. But Jesus said, you must not stop him. No one who works a miracle in. My name is likely to speak, evil of me. Anyone who is not against us, is for us. If anyone gives you a cup of water to drink just because you belong to Christ, then I tell you solemnly he will most certainly not lose his reward.
But anyone who is an obstacle to bring down one of these little ones who have faith would be better thrown into the sea with a great millstone around his neck. And if your hand should cause you to sin, cut it off, it is better for you to enter into life crippled than to have two hands and go to hell into the fire. That cannot be put out and if your foot should cause you to sin, cut it off, it is better for you to enter into life lame than to have Fate and be thrown into hell.
And if you're I should cause you to sin, tear it out, it is better for you to enter into the kingdom of God, with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell. Where their worm does not die nor their fire go out. So that's a reading today from Mark.
And what's interesting about this is we have a whole lot of interesting teachings in and of themselves that have been put together here by Mark. And Matthew includes basically all of these same teachings, but he puts him in different places. So it's not entirely clear. If Jesus said all of these things on the same occasion or whether markers, rearranged them to make an overall point here. So there's quite a few different bits to analyze you. What's the context?
So Jesus is moving through Galilee. With his disciples and they've reached capernum this particular scene. If you followed what happened earlier in Mark chapter 9, this scene takes place in Jesus own house, in Capernaum. This is a private briefing, with
his disciples. So they're in Jesus house in Capernaum and they've been arguing about, who is the greatest and at that point, Jesus said a child in front of them and said anyone who welcomes one of these little children in my name, welcomes me and anyone who Seems me welcomes, not me, but the one who sent me so that conversation is just happened. And now we get to verse 38, John said to Jesus. So this is the Apostle, John, the sons of Zebedee, the author of The Gospel of John, he says,
master or teacher. We saw a man who is not one of us. Now, the apostles must have seen this man earlier. When Jesus wasn't around, this must have been at some point when Jesus didn't see it happen. But John goes on, he says we saw a man who is not one of us as in not one of our group, one of our disciples group, casting out devils in your name. So, this is an interesting situation, there's a man doing exorcisms in Jesus name and it wasn't uncommon in that time for Jews to do exorcisms.
Certainly some Jews were able to do X's exorcisms but doing them in Jesus name was new, usually they will do it in God's name. Apparently some people in Including this man were inspired by Jesus ministry and they genuinely had faith in Jesus, so, they started doing exorcism using Jesus genuine power and using his name, and these appear to be genuine Believers. People, who actually do believe in Jesus and who are now doing
exorcisms in his name? The problem of course is that they're not officially approved, it's not a recognized Apostle and it's not someone that the apostles have officially Commander to do this or commission to do this. So he's not Officially approved but he is still doing it effectively. Now, interestingly you Scholars point out here that this links to the previous episode when Jesus was talking about anyone who receives one of these little
ones. In my name, verse 37 will here again, we have the mention of Jesus name, someone's doing exorcisms in Jesus name, So, John goes on. He was casting out devils in your name and because he was not one of us or more literally, because he was not following us. We tried to stop him or what it actually says there is. We forbade him. So, the apostles went up to him, when they saw him doing this and said, you're not a follower of us. We forbid you from doing this.
The apostles use their Apostolic power to forbid him from doing exorcisms. This is reminiscent of Joshua in the Old Testament, trying to stop Men who were prophesying but who weren't officially approved to be Prophets. You said that in Numbers Chapter 11, it's a very similar situation because there it appears, they were doing genuine prophecies. Even though they weren't officially approved profits. Similar situation may be the apostles here are jealous because they themselves are
struggling to cast out demons. So earlier in this same chapter in verse 18, we learned that the apostles themselves are struggling to cast out certain kinds of demons. Notice though, the apostles do have legitimate authority to forbid, people to do this. They as Apostles that seems are allowed to forbid people, from exercising, this ministry, they have the power to stop people from doing this. Jesus doesn't deny that they have the power to forbade people
from doing stuff. But what he does say to them is you must not stop him or more literally do not forbid him. So, like in the Joshua situation, Moses corrects Joshua in 11:29 and Moses says to Joshua, you must let these must let these prophets continue. Well, here Jesus says to his disciples and particularly to John do not forbid him. He corrects John's John's jealousy and tells John not to prevent people from doing exorcisms in his name.
Jesus goes on no one who works a miracle in my name is likely to speak evil of me. Or what it actually says. There is no one. Who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon after to speak evil of me. So apparently Jesus point is that those who are able to perform Mighty Works in his name, which apparently some people could do, they will soon realize that he has genuine power and they're likely to become Jesus followers anyway.
So he's saying that look, if anyone is using my name, even if they're not officially approved, they're going to start realizing that me. Echoes In My Name work and as a result they're going to put their faith in me and become a, genuine follower of me. So Jesus says that all things considered they're going to become followers of me. Anyway. In fact, Jesus will later say that those who believe in him will be able to drive out demons in his name. He says that in Mark 16:17.
So, Jesus anticipates that people will have this power when they use his name. And then Jesus, says, anyone who is not against us is for us. Now, this can mean different things and in the context of Jesus ministry, he's saying, that anyone who is doing things in the name of Jesus, and the kingdom is on the same side as the apostles. So perhaps, what this man is doing is not entirely appropriate, we can probably say that this man shouldn't really be doing it because he's not commissioned.
So it's not entirely appropriate, but given the short time that Jesus is on Earth, he wants his name to spread as far as possible. So he's willing to allow But this is kind of similar to what Jesus says about fasting when he says while I'm on Earth it's not appropriate for my followers to fast but when I'm gone then they'll fast. So this might be one of these cases where Jesus says look it's not ideal but given that I'm only here for a short time.
It's okay for this to happen while I'm on Earth and doing this ministry. So Jesus here might be directing the disciples to take a stance of openness towards those who are not in the formal bounds of the church. He's telling them not to consider them furrows, possibly Keep in mind though that Matthew chapter 12 verse 31, it reports this saying also adds the converse and Matthew. 12 verse 30 says, whoever is not with me is against me although that's
not here in marks version. So there's a lot to consider here in terms of what Jesus might be trying to tell the apostles verse 41, Jesus changes. His thought here slightly, if anyone gives you a cup of water to drink just because you belong to Christ, what it actually says. There is because you bear the Name of Christ. There's that theme of name of Christ again. So, Jesus, here is saying that anyone who even helps a disciple of Jesus is on Jesus side.
Anyone who even helps a disciple of Jesus, is on his side though don't have to perform Mighty Works in Jesus name. Anyone who even gives him so much as a cup of cold water, which of course, will be very useful in that Society. Because if the apostles are going around preaching, in the hot weather, a cup of cold water, will we actually are very much needed by the apostles. So Jesus says Anyone who gives you even so much. As a cold cup of water is on Jesus side and the side of the Kingdom.
Jesus, here is saying that the apostles mission in preaching, the kingdom of God is so important that anyone who cooperates with it. Even in a small way like giving the Christian a cup of water will be rewarded. This is actually the same basic teaching as the parable of the sheep and the goats where Jesus says, people will be rewarded based on how they treat Christians as a similar kind of thing here. Jesus is trying to communicate
to them. That look, even if they're not officially approved, you're going to meet many people who are going to Help you and God will approve of them because they're helping the Our Kingdom work. Jesus says, then I tell you solemnly he will most certainly not lose his reward. So anyone who helps the apostles and the kingdom is approved by God and he will not lose his reward. Interesting phrasing.
Isn't it? This verse implies that it's possible for someone in the Kingdom to lose the rewards. If he's saying they will not lose their reward that would seem to imply that some people could lose their rewards. What does it? I mean, by reward, and you could interpret this different ways, probably hear. It means something like degrees of Glory, in heaven. The teaching of Jesus, is that people can be in the kingdom.
And in the next life, they can be in the Kingdom with God, but they can lose their reward, which kind of means they can lose their degree of Glory in heaven. This is an interesting teaching, but it is actually part of
Catholic teaching, as well. We move on to a different section now, and this next section appears in different contexts in both Matthew. So it's in Matthew chapter 18, where Jesus gives his kind of sermon about disciples and also in Luke chapter 17. So it's in different contexts there, for this reason, some Scholars think that maybe Mark
here has inserted these words. In this spot even though they didn't occur on this occasion, maybe Mark is trying to make it seem like Jesus said this straight, after his teaching about being broad-minded, perhaps this is just a theory but maybe Mark wants his readers to not. He wants to ensure that his readers don't take away the wrong message. From what he's just said about
being open-minded to people. Maybe Mark is saying there's a place for being open, but he also wants to remind them, that Jesus teaches that sin is a serious matter. Openness yes to an extent but not so open that we allow sin. In other words, if God graciously rewards little acts of kindness, on the other hand, he's going to severely punish acts of evil especially as will see acts that involve Scandal verse 42. Jesus says to the disciples, anyone who is an obstacle to bring down.
Now, this is an interesting phrase here, this can be translated different ways. It can be translated whoever causes one of Of these little ones who believe in me to sin, or you can even translate this stumble. The Greek word here is scandalize 0, which means to bring someone to ruin interesting scandalize. Oh to bring someone to ruin most translations here, understand, Jesus here to be talking about Temptations to sin Jesus.
Here says anyone who brings temptation to sin to others and that of course, is what we would call the sin of Scandal. So here we have one of the key passages about the sin of Scandal And indeed, it comes from the Greek word here scandalize. Oh, anyone who causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin.
Now, who are these little ones? What it actually says here, in marks version is one of these little ones who have faith or one of these little ones who believe in me, who is that, who are the little ones? There's two different ways of interpreting this. It could refer to children as in biological children and remember in this very same scene, just before this Jesus said a child in In front of him. So maybe he is talking about children, but it could also mean
new disciples in general. So new people who are new in the faith and that would also fit with what Jesus has just said about spreading the kingdom and about how people are going to join them in spreading the kingdom. It seems when we put this together with the contexts, when Jesus says this, in the other gospels that looks like Jesus is talking about young disciples or those who are new Believers, not biological children. So it's best to understand.
These words as Jesus talking about those who are weak or vulnerable in the faith and that would probably include young children. But basically anyone who's a new believer, Jesus says, anyone who causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better thrown into the sea with a great millstone around his neck or another translation. Here is it will be better for him if a great Millstone were hung around his neck and he were
thrown into the sea. Pretty strong words here from Jesus firstly, what's a millstone? A millstone is, a very heavy Stone. It's often called a donkey Millstone. It's a heavy donut shaped stone that it was. It was so heavy. It could actually only be turned by a donkey humans. Couldn't turn this but donkeys could so if a person was to have this hung around their neck they would quickly. Drown Jesus here is giving us an image of a quick death, but a horrible death.
It's a severe punishment in the Old Testament, it's reserved for God's enemies in the Old Testament, if you think of Exodus Teen pharaoh and his army drown Nehemiah 11 talks about God's enemies drowning Zechariah 9 and then even in Revelation 18 verse 21, it talks about God's enemies drowning. Now, when Jesus he says it will be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a great millstone around his neck.
It probably is a hyperbole Jesus is probably exaggerating to make a point, but certainly his emphasizing the seriousness of leading those who are weak in faith into sin, this is a warning to his Disciples. Jesus is saying that have a particular responsibility to ensure that they model the faith well and don't lead others into sin by their words and actions. He's saying this is serious make sure you are not a temptation of
sin to others. So what then does it mean for Jesus to say it will be better for him to be thrown into the sea. Why would it be better for him to be thrown into the sea? There's two main interpretations here maybe Jesus is teaching that it will be better if the person was dead. And therefore not able to lead others into scandal in the first place, or maybe Jesus is emphasizing the punishment that will come.
If a person does lead someone young into sin, Jesus is saying that, if you lead someone into sin, you are going to have a very serious punishment ahead of you. And in that sense, it will be better for you to drown to have that punishment, compared to the Eternal punishment that will result otherwise. So there's a couple of different
ways of looking at this. Jesus is now going to talk about taking drastic measures to avoid sin and indeed, he's going to talk about the consequences of what happens if you do commit, a mortal sin. If you're not careful to guard yourself against sin, this actually matches. What Jesus said earlier about, forfeiting one's life, Jesus says, what does it gain a man to have the whole world, but to Forfeit one's life, and there he's talking about forfeiting
eternal life. So Jesus teaching all the way through is that through your actions. Your choices, you can forfeit eternal life and we're going to see that here. Now, in the context of what Jesus has just said, Jesus is probably thinking, particularly of Scandal. He's in his thinking, particularly of ensuring that the apostles minimize their opportunity to cause others to sin. Verse 43. Jesus says, if your hand causes you to sin and in the Greek here, it says, if your hand
causes you to scandalize. Oh, cut it off. Now, this is very famous. Phrase of Jesus, isn't it? This is accepted by pretty much all Scholars. As a hyperbole Jesus is not saying, literally cut off your hand, if it makes it prone to sin, it seems that Jesus is exaggerating to make a point. This was a common Jewish way of teaching at the time, they would sort of shoot over the mark, in order to make the Wait a similar. Hyperbole is when Jesus says in The Sermon on the Mount, do not.
Let your left hand, know what your right hand is doing now. That's physically impossible. So here we have a similar teaching, it's a hyperbole an exaggeration, but he's still making a very serious Point his calling for the crowd, for the disciples to take drastic action to stop sin at its root, and that's primarily the will. This is a teaching about cutting sin off at the root, which is the human will.
Geez. This is telling his disciples, that they must do everything they can, to avoid the near occasion of sin, and they need to be willing to take ruthless drastic action against their sinful drives so that they can enter eternal life. If they don't control their sin, and if they do fall into mortal sin because they didn't keep a guard on their will, they could forfeit eternal life.
That's the teaching here. His warning, his disciples Jesus says, it is better for you to enter into life crippled than to have Hands. And go to hell and the Greek. Wait here for Hailey's Gahanna, we need to talk a bit about this word. Gehenna, oh, comes up a bit in the gospels. Whenever Jesus talks about Gannett gehenna. He's referring to what we would Now call hell. Jesus listeners would have shuddered At The Mention of the word.
Gehenna in Hebrew, Gahanna means the Valley of the son of hinnom, and this is a real place in Israel. So it's a Steep Ravine, South of West of Jerusalem, and it shows up a couple of times in the Old Testament. Testament. Firstly, idolatrous Israelites had sacrificed their own children to the Pagan. God, Molech in Jeremiah 7 and 19, at talks about the valley of hinnom being where they sacrifice to the Pagan.
God, Molech. And then later under the reforms of King Josiah, this same vial site was desecrated, so the righteous King took a back in Second Kings, 23. But later, it became a garbage dump. Full of maggot, ridden carcasses and burning refuse. So late in the Old Testament, the valley of gehenna was actually a garbage dump. It constantly had burning refuse and there was actually maggots in there.
So the valley of hinnom gehenna was a place that most of Jesus readers would have been too and they would have actually seen this smoldering pile of rubbish. So Jesus uses it as an image of Hell in Jewish extra biblical literature. So some of the stuff that was written between the Old Testament and New Testament, Estimate gehenna. So in the Years, leading up to Jesus, gehenna became an image of the future punishment of the Damned.
So if you look at the Book of Enoch 1, Enoch, particularly it talks there about how he'll the future Eternal punishment is in a way like, your henna. So, Jesus is not the first one to say that to call Hal Gahanna. That was a common way of
describing. How at that time, many people don't realize this, when Jesus calls hell gehenna, they would have known exactly what, What he was talking about this Burning Peter rubbish, Jesus uses it. In the sense of this is what eternal life will be like, so Jesus. He says, if your hand causes you to sin cut it off, it's better to enter into eternal life maimed than to go to get Hannah,
Jesus here. Teaches that, although dealing with sinful thoughts in this way, might be painful and difficult, it's far better than ending up in hell and Jesus here. Teachers that hands, if you think about it, he says This can be involved in mortal sin, particularly if it causes Scandal, Jesus is thinking particularly of Scandal, the clear teaching here is it's possible to do things with your hands that can land.
You in hell, it's possible to commit a mortal sin if you're not careful and think about it. Jesus teaching here depending on how literally we take the metaphor, Jesus does seem to be teaching that he'll will be in some sense. A physical bodily experience is saying you'll be tormented in hell The teaching of the Catholic church is that everyone will have a body in the afterlife, even those in hell will have a body. So, Jesus metaphor about hands
and soon about eyes and feet. It's quite graphic when he says pluck out your eye cut off your hand, but it's actually quite well matched because Jesus is saying that look in eternal life, you are going to have body parts.
So if your body parts cause you a problem in this life, you need to do something about it. So, the physicality here is somewhat deliberate on Jesus part because eternal life is quite Cool. So there's a lot going on in this passage and a lot of this could have its own separate episode or a whole sermon given on individual lines of this teaching here. So, Jesus goes on, he says it will be better for you to enter into life crippled than to have
two hands and go to hell. And then he says that is the fire that cannot be put out or more. Literally, the unquenchable fire. Jesus says, that's a good image of Hell. Unquenchable Fire kind of like the valley of gehenna was in their own day. Now you might Have wondered when we first started this reading today. Why is it skip a few verses? So today we're looking at verses 38 to 43 and then 45 and then verses 47 and 248. So why don't we read verse 44 and verse 46?
It's because most manuscripts don't have it. They don't have verse 44, but some manuscripts. Do. So some manuscripts have verse 44. It's actually a double up of later verse 48. So verse 44 says this into the fire, that cannot be put in Where their worm does not die nor their fire go out. So this phrase here about where their worm does not die nor their fire go out. It's the same as verse 48. So nothing is lost here, even if we say it wasn't in the original manuscripts, it is certainly
verse. 48 was certainly in the original manuscripts. What is Jesus mean here when he says where their worm does not die, nor their fire goes out. It seems to Echo a description of Eternal punishment in the book of Isaiah. So Isaiah describes the fate of God's enemies this way. Their worm shall not die nor their fire be extinguished and they shall be abhorrent to all mankind.
That's in Isaiah 66 verse 24. Now in the time of why Zaire they hadn't fully worked out this idea of Eternal punishment. So probably when Isaiah is speaking, he's thinking of temporal Earthly punishment that God will inflict on his enemies. But Jesus sees in here and perhaps when I was I was giving this, it was a prophecy. That it's a good image of Eternal punishment. Their worm shall not die nor
their fire be extinguished. Now, when we hear this language of worms and fires, you might wonder is Jesus teaching that for the hell literally has flames and it has worms, you could go either way with this. I think you can make a strong case that Jesus is using somewhat metaphorical language that Jesus is adopting. So he's not intending to teach that how literally has flames, but he thinks it's a very good image for what Eternal punishment.
Judgment is like now it could well be that he'll has flames and there's no official Catholic teaching on this. But certainly, it could be true. That Jesus is adopting. Some of the Jewish ways of speaking about how long his own day wear and particularly with the valley of gehenna which was depicted as a good way of thinking, about a good image of what Eternal punishment would be like, verse 45, Jesus continues.
And if your foot should cause you to sin, cut it off, it is better for you to enter into life, lame. Then to have to Feet and be thrown into hell. So Jesus says, if your hand causes you to sin cut it off. If your foot causes you to sin cut it off. So apparently feet can cause people to sin and then in verse 46, which is not in our manuscript. But again some manuscripts have verse 46 where their worm does
not die nor their fire go out. Then we get to verse 47 and if you're I should cause you to sin tear it out. It is better for you to enter into the kingdom of God, with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown. Into hell. So, same teaching here about eyes and in Matthew's gospel, this is used in the context of adultery, Matthew 5 verse 30. Jesus is straight after he's
been talking about adultery. He says this about the I so maybe it was supposed to be an image of lust in particular Interesting that Jesus here, doesn't just say end up in hell. He says that otherwise you'll be thrown into hell, that's an active word and that would imply that God is the one that sends him to Hell. They'll be thrown into hell. That's certainly one way of interpreting.
Jesus words here. Jesus now says in verse 48, to finish this section where their worm does not die nor their fire go out. Now this idea of a hand or a foot being cut off for the sake of eternal life.
Actually brings Find a real incident that did happen in the Old Testament. So in second Maccabees chapter 7, there's this graphic incident where the heroic mother and seven, sons endure torture, and dismemberment rather than disobey God's law, they're actually willing to give up their body parts rather than turn against God and His law. So it's actually perhaps a story that many of Jesus here is would
have been familiar with. They would have immediately thought of second Maccabees seven where the people were willing to give up. Our body parts rather than endure God's Wrath because they turned away from him. Interesting, isn't it? Now there's a little more to this speech. Jesus has a couple more things to say here before Mark chapter 9 finishes and it can hear the rest of that speech in Thursday of week. 7. In ordinary time. Let's finish today with one
quick. Catechism reference paragraph 1034. This is in the Catholic. Church's teaching about hell, Jesus often speaks of gehenna of the unquenchable fire. Reserved for those who to the end of their lives, refuse to believe, and be converted, were both soul, and body can be lost. Jesus, solemnly, proclaims that he will send his angels and they will gather all evildoers and throw them into the furnace of fire. And that he will pronounce the condemnation depart from me, you
cursed into the Eternal fire. So strong words, you from Jesus, and they're not easy to hear, but it certainly is part of Jesus teaching that hell is a real place. And there are sins We can commit the can and they can result in us being sent there. So it's been a longer episode today. I hope you've enjoyed it. If you have, please share this with other people and we're going to continue in the coming days.