I'm Jessica and I'm Rico and this is ATC presented by Kay Rambles. We're a couple friends review Korean dramas, except I've been watching kdramas since 2012 and Rico is on. His wet episode has this migrant fourth drama ever fourth. K, trauma ever. Thank you so much for coming, back and listening to us. If this is your first time listening, go ahead and subscribe on your favorite podcast app. We're on Apple podcast Spotify, Google podcasts and so many
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It's a great way for you to get involved in the show and show your support because not only would you be supporting this show, which is, you know, daebak a Rambles, but you would be supporting us on our main venture. Of always the critic so you can always check that out on patreon.com slash always critic pod. Yes. So Rico, today we are going to be reviewing a show called W Two Worlds and it's 2016 show. Do you want to give us the my drama? Listen abscess. Yes, I will go ahead and do
that. It starts off with Osamu the father of a cardiothoracic. Attic surgeon. Oh youngjoo. That is the name mysteriously goes missing while writing the last chapter of his webtoon. W eun-joo goes to his office looking, but a hand from his monitor suddenly pulls her in and she finds herself on top on the rooftop of a building. Next to a man who is bloodied. She manages to save the person only to realize that he is. Kang Chul at that is I just want to make sure that I'm
pronouncing it, right? He is the main character of his father of her father's webtoon. Yoonjoo later. Discovers she can only enter and leave the webtoon. Depending on Kang Joel's feelings, thanks for that Rico. That's basically episode 1 of w. It originally aired from July to September 2016. It is 16 episodes long and we do have some housekeeping to get out of the way. It was directed by Jung daehyun. He directed, Queen of reversals, the King, two hearts with ha jiwon and Lee seunggi.
Those are two Hollywood stars right there, great show. If you haven't watched it already, he also directed by Don in the magistrate Cunning Single Lady. She was pretty with pox o June and, of course, I'm not a robot from 2017, it was written by seong Jae Joong, she wrote queening yawns men, which is amazing. If you haven't seen it already, I highly recommend that 2012
show and sung. Jae Joong, also wrote memories of the Alhambra from 2018. You can catch that show on Netflix if you want to watch it, although I watched it, it sucked. I did not like it at all. I actually I wrote a review on the Dybbuk blog as well if you want to see my raw thoughts on that show. Okay, so w Stars. Lee Jong Suk. As Kang jaecheol, this guy is very popular. Um, he's been in a bunch of shows, he started out. I feel His first real Cameo was in Secret Garden.
I don't want to say Cameo. His first, real role was basically India garden and that's a major major show. I can hear your voice. 2013 Doctor, Stranger Pinocchio While You Were Sleeping romance is a bonus book. Is his most recent drama from 2019. Also on Netflix also sucks and then it also Stars Han hyo-joo as oh youngjoo she mostly does an even amount of like move. These and TV. And so she started acting when
she was very young. And I remember her first from the TV show spring Waltz from 2006. And then she was also a brilliant Legacy in 2009 with a soggy and then donkey, which is a historical show from 2010. I really like her movie, Her movie work, she did this movie called always with, so jisub, which is like one of my first kdrama crushes was so jisub. I think he's like 40-something years old and I'm like, all in this movie with so jisub. It's a tearjerker. So good.
Masquerade in 2012, love 911 in 2012, which is really funny. That's a rom-com. And then, the beauty inside from 2015, which has a very interesting premise, that they actually turned it into a TV show as well. So you could watch the Beauty inside movie, and then watch the Beauty inside kdrama as well. And to round out, our, I'll just go with her dad in the show Kim. We sung glaze also mu.
Okay, so now that we have all of that out of the way, we have the cast with the directory of the writer release and everything we go. What did you think of w? So w has a very interesting premise that immediately made me think of the 1984 music video for ha ha ha Take On Me, right? Because it feels like it's the same exact thing. You're not wrong, gets pulled into the comic book.
The comic book is its own world and things that happen on the outside world affect the comic and vice versa for sure. Interesting premise, like yes it is. So Leah rounding and that's why it did pretty well like in the ratings and stuff. It was it did gangbusters but that premise is so unique. And that's why I wonder how. I didn't like it. How they fumbled this.
And this, in my view, this is something that I warned you about in the previous reviews that we've done in our conversations is that you might have a show that starts super strong. Like w starts very strong with a bang, right? It's a strong premise, strong premise really great characters. And you know somewhere along the way, they just lose their shit and like the threat of it is
just gone. And so you didn't like w at all, pretty much know because I think that for the most part I was intrigued by the premise but as the show went on, it started to feel like it was spinning its Wheels because it felt like the story was dragging out too long and I don't know how you feel, but I did not really like either starring person. Oh, really. No, I honestly, you know what, it felt like to me. Okay. I'm just gonna withhold my thoughts.
So you can keep going. You know what, it felt like to me especially Lee jung-soo. Okay. He felt Not believable as like that lead character because there's a lot of moments where he has to do action and he has to do, like, life-threatening stuff. Yes. And I did not find it believable at all because he looks so fresh face. So young. So model is Schleck. He was like they just he started late model, right? And so I think that's the problem.
So it kind of reminded me when all these like freeform, CW shows, just grab like really good-looking young. People just are in like these dramas that they make, and you can tell that they don't quite have the acting there. And he did not quite have the acting there because there are moments where he's trying to deliver either a look or a line. And I'm just like, I'm not buying this at all, man. So, and then on top of that. Okay? What Han huge. Oh yeah, who plays?
Oh, Yoon Joo. No. I'm not saying she is exactly like, the girl from Boys Over Flowers. She's not like that. All right, hold on, hold on, I'm not done. Okay, what I'm saying is that there's a lot of moments where I'm looking at her character or I'm watching. And I'm, I'm just like, I don't know if I even like what I'm seeing from her, you know, I'm saying. And it kind of got me to the point where I'm trudging through episodes to get Get to a payoff that in the end I didn't like or
I didn't really care for uh-huh. And it kind of, It kind of had a problem with, you know, it's a great premise and they didn't know what to do with it. They didn't know how to do something very interesting or very fulfilling with it is what I'm, that's the problem. Okay. Okay, so my thoughts are, I will I have to take it back because I watch this witness originally aired.
Okay? And I really enjoyed the first half of the show and to be quite honest, I remembered exactly the first eight episodes of the show in re-watching, it it was very clear to me. I was like, oh yeah, this happens. Oh yeah. They say this. Oh yeah, this person does this. So very memorable to me the first half of the show. And I would argue that the first eight episodes are the best Eight Episodes of the whole show.
Um, and the feeling that I had while watching W originally back in 2016, was that I really like these characters. And I really love this premise. It is extremely unique. It is catchy. However, the way that they decided to take the plot and this, I felt originally Lee was bogus it was total bullshit. I felt like they didn't know how
to end the show. Look the writers were grasping at straws that they, they just made it super convoluted because they seem to be writing week-to-week instead of feeling like they had this whole entire picture in mind for the show, and a clear-cut ending of where it was going to resolve. And in re watching it, I feel the exact same way that I did it. Like that scene where I wish so much better for these characters and for these actors and for this, you know, whole world that they built.
I just want it to be better. And I wish that they had taken it in such a different direction and I don't know what that direction should be, but it was, it's not this. No, it's not what we got. So yeah, it's kind of hard to say, you know, it should have gone in this direction when we don't know, Know what it should have been but we both know it's not this. Yes.
You know what? It kind of reminds me of it reminds me of another show that I watch back in the early 2000s or 2010's called Flash Forward. It was with a Joseph Fiennes Ray Fiennes brother and John Cho like it had like some good people on it but basically the premise of the show is that basically A series revolves around the lives of several people as a mysterious event causes nearly everyone on the planet to simultaneously lose Consciousness for 2 minutes and
17 seconds. How does that remind you of? Wa. Hold on. No, no. The reason why is because it starts off with a very interesting premise. Like, wait a minute. Everybody on Earth. I blacked out for like this exact specific time and then there's the mystery of solving. Why that Happened. And so the first half of the first season is like, oh, this is really cool. This is like a very interesting
like mystery and stuff. But once they get to the point where they kind of like almost figure it out and then what is the next step? Yes, the writers you could tell, did not know what the next step was, right. And the show got cancelled after one season because they couldn't figure out what to do. It was, it was very frustrating to watch. So that's how he felt.
And then this That's how I felt. Especially after episode a, I was like, like, why they're fumbling it, they're messing it up. You know, in this case, what I was watching at this time around, I was able to pinpoint, what exactly reminded me of. So you said I show flash-forward. It's a me reminded me. A lot of like Tron legacy because of them getting sucked into the game. Where the world's?
Yeah, my name me a Truman Show a lot because, okay, characters affected by peopl creators acting as God and not. Allowing him to make choices about his own life. And so that's very prevalent in Truman Show and of that's running throughout W, it reminded me of the Matrix because they end up being able to enter and exit, the alt this alternate fake World, exact vitamin E of inception a lot because the creators are Architects.
Can manipulate the physical world and copy something from the real world that ends up having an interesting parallel world implications. Right. It reminded me of Pleasantville, the movie Pleasantville and getting sucked into the world again. And then the inhabitants of this world start to unravel the truth about their world and their existence the same thing as W. And then this is a little bit of a pool, but I thought of Jordan peels us. Okay, because in this might be
getting into spoiler territory. So I'll just stop right here. But basically, I'll cover, why Jordan Peele? Sus reminds me of w, Howe were there. Any parts of the show that you were really excited for or you were like, oh, I can't wait till we get to this again. So I think the the most interesting thing, obviously it happens early on, it's when we see for the first time that she gets pulled into the comic world.
But it's an alternate reality. So I found that interesting like, oh, so she is affecting what's happening in the comic. Hmm. But then I did not expect for it. The reverse to happen pretty much where like the other side of the world is affecting this as well. I did not expect that, so that was really cool. So when that happened the very first time in the show, I was like, oh this is, this is a really cool concept. Concept. Like let's really play around with this to see what more can
the outside world affect? What's going on in there? Yeah, really play with that idea and they do for the first few episodes, and I really enjoyed that, and then for some reason, they kind of like tail off and they decide to reverse it. No, I'm not trying to sound like Missy Elliott here but like they decide for our lead character to come out of the comic.
Pretty much. Yeah. And for some reason, I'm not getting get into spoiler territory here, but basically, they decide to do something with the character that now, that characters, not around for a couple of episodes and it's like, or for like an episode or whatever. And then they immediately Backtrack on that. And it's like, so what are the
rules of the world? Like, yes, that is a big complaint that I have is that they set up these rules hard and fast rules about this world and then they just break all of them by the end of the show or it starts changing and they call it like, oh, with all things being the same, this should happen and that's like guessing what should happen in the in the comic book world and then they introduced variables and the characters even Then call them variables and they're like, unless a
variable pops up and I'm like, what are you talking about? That is pretty lame. Like, what variable label it that way. Yeah, so that was very frustrating for me. The most exciting part of the show was definitely the romance between control and oh my god, oh, you'll do right? And to me that's what made it so compelling. Is that they somehow have this really good. Chemistry. And they're trying to turn the tables on the Run of the show of the, you know, comic book the Muslim comic book.
Yeah. And I'm not going to give anything away but like their moments together are really good and so whenever it kind of got towards that territory or whenever they were together, or they were having some sweet moment. I was like, yes, like this feels right for the show and then it would double back on itself and it would commit more towards the mystery, the logistics of the world. Being to flipped upside down and the criminal aspect of the show. And it was just that part.
They didn't seem to have as down as like, these characters are should end up together. Like that's like the through line that they committed to from the very beginning from the very writing and you skid a sense of that with the really solid relationship between them throughout the whole show. And so that's how I found Not a positive that being said I don't like that. They're trying to switch genres in the middle of a show you know? Thank you. I don't like that.
Yeah like not only during the show they're switching genres but also the tone of the show will change. Yes. Like within scenes. Yes. You know there's a moment where somebody is like brutally shot, you know and there's blood and everything and the very next scene it's like Comical with like this light-hearted music and it's like, what? It's kind of hard to keep us. You know, a straightforward line. W stands for whiplash.
Exactly, exactly. Yeah, it's kind of hard to keep track of what is the show supposed to make us as an audience want to follow? When it's constantly bouncing back and forth. Yeah I feel like we discussed what really irked us about the show already and what we really dislike about the show but we can go more into spoilers later. On a scale of one to five. How pissed would you be if you were a fan of this web toon in this world?
If I was a fan of the webtoon itself, pretty upset because at the end of the day, you usually read, you know, these Comics written for the hero and you know if your hero is going to be killed off, like that's upsetting enough. Uh-huh. But then the way like like sometimes I even lost track of how it actually is. Ends because they keep, like, going back and, like, know, we know that we can change something and it's like, Okay now, what's happening? Because they keep going back and
doubling back on themselves. That was a problem. They didn't have a clear ending and just when you think you got the ending of the webtoon. No, they change it again, right? So so it was a frustrating pressure, so 50 God. Me personally, I don't know if I would be as committed. Did to a webtoon. That is, this genre know, it's like a crime. Thriller action.
Come on. I don't mind that if they decide to lean one way or the other, it would make a lot more sense and it would be more of a continuous and actual believable story if they commit to one rather than, you know, trying to straddle both lines. Or even doing 7525.
In either direction, would probably make more sense like having like an action thriller where there is a romantic subplot, you know, would work or it's a romantic, you know, story with this element of, you know, sci-fi or however you want to label it, but this is very herky-jerky wishy-washy. Unclear the glue yeah. What direction they want to go in? Was there a character that you were that you really connected with or where most invested in?
At any time? It was kind of hard to like truly invest because I wasn't invested in the two main characters, so that that made it hard to and there's this is very like there's not a lot of cash to go with. No, it's a very light cast. Yeah. So you know who you're looking at from pretty much episode 1. That's pretty much it. Yeah, Way Forward. Yeah. So if, if I had to put it on someone, maybe the dad, Who's the artist really?
I because he is an artist who is struggling like he has, you know, an idea for what he wants to do with his tune, but the world is of being affected. So everything that he does, he is getting boarded. He's getting thwarted from his vision, you know. So I Related to that. Yeah, I sympathize with us or empathize sympathize. I've been in situations where I've tried to create and I've been through it myself so I can sympathize and empathize with
the dad, okay, with the dad. I know all characters. I feel like I really connected with oil and Jew because she is like the every girl, like she's not a very good doctor, no, it's pretty average. The only thing she has going for is her looks when she's not. 100 on either she's like I'm a beauty like she's like very surprised that people find her attractive so that's God but I really like how she is a
dreamer. Almost. Hmm. And it's very slight that you get this impression that she is kind of like a hopeless romantic because she's so realistic. Of a personality like she's like, you know, she feels like a real character. Yes, she felt real in that sense where she wasn't Like, I don't know, she came from a divorcee family, she's living with her
mom, and she doesn't get her. See her dad all the time, and she's pretty, you know, at work, she's not very popular and she has to like kowtow to her boss and stuff like that, that really kind of felt not non main character to me, right? So, I I liked her a lot in that sense and her reactions felt really genuine to me. I know you Did not like her acting denile his then that like case, he's acting as well, I'll
call him Casey for cocktail. So I don't think you had any thoughts on chemistry because you already said you just didn't believe them. No, like it. There's one scene in particular that I'm just like, what the hell are they doing? Like it just didn't feel natural eye. It didn't feel. And we'll talk about it in spoilers if you want. Yeah, but yeah, like I was not so Old under Love Story. Okay? So talk about this in spoilers. Last thing before we get into spoilers OST, what do you think
of those tea? I thought it was fine. I have a hard time gate. Oh you know what I did have one particular note though there were certain action moments that had the same theme that started out a certain way and like you'll recognize it if I do it it's like don't go doo-doo-doo-doo doo-doo-doo-doo. Oh yeah. That is the very beginning of Danny. Elfman's version of Avengers from Avengers Age of Ultron. If you listen to it, it's the same exact starting your here.
And you'll be like, oh my God, they rip them off the top. Danny Elfman your that very that beginning part? Yay. All right. Clearly. Wow, fine. So I found the OST, amazing. I thought it was unassailably good. I see, okay? I really enjoy that osce even to this day and I remember the first episode ending for my re-watch, I was like, oh shit. Fuck I forgot. Like how good the OST is on it.
The centerpiece is this song, Where Are You by Jung joon-young and that was like, the, like breathy, like, song that they put at the end of every episode, every episode. Yeah, loved it. It's in my cage. I'm OSD Spotify playlist. I think that I was T, slaps. So we'll talk about major themes, more, qualms and nitpicks, and weak links. And we're just going to pick it apart in spoilers, right after this. You want to come in. All right, so we're going to
talk about spoilers now. Rico, I want to come back to Ooh, this thing that you said you were talking about the Chemistry Between the leaves and you were like, there is this moment that I did not like, I thought they were stretching? Yes. Well, is that mode? Okay, so there's a moment, I can't remember exactly which episode, but it's kind of early on. There is a moment where they are in his apartment or his like sweet and like his friends are outside of the room and he has a
gun. And he is trying to get answers right to what is going on, but there's clearly supposed to be like some type of, you know, something going on between them, some type of chemistry. Okay, yeah. You're supposed to try to believe that he is obviously trying to get answers but he trying to get to know her. Oh the bathroom scene bathroom. Yeah, it was the bathroom. It was about to shoot sir and he shoots her. But that's not that's not my qualms my qualms is not with the
fact that he shoots her. Okay. What's the koala might calm is that I didn't find any of like their interaction as a believable thing that these two are going to end up together. Okay you didn't think they were going to end up together, it didn't feel like it. Like I know that the show and you know, they're trying to Telegraph that these two are going to end up together and every interaction happens to be them together and they're saving each. They're from different
situations. But man did like their actual chemistry never had me, you know, really sold on the fact that all ya know, I could totally see them together. Okay, like so just never felt that way. Here's my thing is that in my second watch, I was looking for places where they seem to really connect and have great chemistry, their main queue, and all that stuff. And I still feel that The reason why I think they have great chemistry is not because they have great chemistry.
It's because they're just too beautiful people caught up in this like Grand Story together and they are smushed together. Every chance that the story allows and they don't have like a moment where you're like oh that's when he fell in love with her. Oh, that's when she fell in love with him. And you know what I'm saying? There's always a moment were like that's it. Like they might hate each other or they might, you know, have no
issues with each other. But That's the moment where you find that they're committed to each other for some reason or another and there was no, like, like moment in time where you're like, oh, I understand their commitment to each other, right? You know, he's she saves him at the very beginning from dying and you have a thought. It reminds me the premise is not
the same but having two actors. Good looking actors that are pressed together and they're supposed to be a romantic interest in a movie and it just does not work as much as the plot is driving them to write. And that is there was a movie it's with Ashton Kutcher and Katherine Heigl. We're killers are believe or something like that. Where like somehow Ashton Kutcher's like some secrets.
Bye. But the two of them good-looking people and the plot is forcing them together and like the plot is trying to make you believe like yeah these two are going to end up together because everything they do makes them you know romantically involved but you just don't buy it because those two together, it's like you're watching them on screen is like there's nothing there. I don't I do and I don't feel that way about this coupling of case. And you don't do the beginning
where she saves him. She plunges like a pen into his chest and he like comes to comes like, they're like into motion. Just love option. He like lifts his body up and they're face-to-face. Really close to each other and I'm like, is that the moment they expect us to be like, oh yeah, they're going to try and like, do anything possible to be with this person moment. That's good.
You're just like, oh my God, it's so abrupt and aggressive and like high stakes and there's no words exchanged between them. Like it's just this Visual and I think the the whole thing about this is like they're going for the visuals versus the substance of a real relationship where you have conversations and you have these moments of getting to know one another like he doesn't even
know her really. And so if you guys like they're just Moving from set piece to set piece because the the show still has to go about its business, about being about a webtoon and the world being affected. So, it kind of feels like they're just moving from set pieces set piece, is that of having genuine interactions with
each other. It hadn't made no sense to me why he was like after he comes to and he's in the hospital and his people are surrounding and he's like, find this girl, I believe she's the key to my life, she can help me find the reason for my existence and I'm like Why do you feel that way?
Where did you get that? So, in my mind, I was like, that doesn't make any sense and, like logged it away, and it really, that's the reason the impetus for him, even summoning her to the world is that he's like, she has some kind of key. She's some sort of, she has the answers that I'm looking for and like it does not make any lick of sense. It does not know. I agree.
No. So we were talking about the dad very briefly because you're connected with, you know, the dad in this at least a little bit. I found the first few episodes with the dad really upsetting for me because he is sadistic Glee happy while killing off Casey and his assistant was like, oh yeah, your dad. So sick and tired of drawing the same character for like almost a decade. You wanted to kill him off. Every fiber of his being and I was like, that's a lot.
Like that's a lot to hand. Like that's your paycheck. Is this character, you know? Yes. And there were no complaints from the fans saying oh we want to end o. The quality is going down. Oh all this stuff like no it was just the dad. Having this idea that he is creation is a monster. And I'd rather be eaten. So I'd rather eat than be eaten or whatever, the the quote was on the back of that the
postcard, or whatever. So, it is really a bizarre intro for the Dead It is passing judgment on his own creation, as a God, you know, how could I leave him as he is about to be consumed? Like why does the dad feel he's going to be consumed if it's like either it's him or me but
why? You know, either slowly, get those flashbacks of like, when cangzhou, like really started rebelling against his vision, the Creator's vision for the story, these were very micro aggressions, you know, yes, the holes trajectory of the story changed but it wasn't like there was a threat to the Creator at any point.
No. So that wasn't, so that was very confusing for me. So I think maybe this is just like putting Like my fake Psychiatry hat or something, okay, but there are times where I think a lot of people who have created something eventually, get tired of having to continuously, do the same thing for that creation, instead of being able to innovate and create new things. You get this a lot with with people who write music and then
have to perform the same. A song over and over and it's not even sometimes like their greatest creation. Sometimes it's like something that they came up with, that was just good enough and then it just took off and like the fan response for the webtoon, you know, people love the character and this and that but the creators like shit, this is not all that I want to do in my life. There's other things or other creations. I want to dive into so I can understand him wanting to be
like, okay. I'm kind of done with that. Now I want to move past that I think it's lengthy TV actors. Yeah II totally understand the idea of wanting to quit this really monotonous life, right? Creating the same thing over and over again and it's not even what you consider your best work. Obviously, I don't completely
understand that. I understand the concept of characters especially in literature feeling like they have a lot of agency over their own stories and then the Creator or the rider is just the mouthpiece. And they're like, well she wants to go on an adventure so I had to write another book like things they say.
Shit like that like writers are constantly like yeah well I didn't think that she should have gotten with this guy but you know, it was her decision and you're like if you created the character you're the one writing. And what is this, you're the one that decided or decides. Yeah there's other ones not so the other way around and that respect, I totally understand where the show was going when it had this really interesting relationship between Casey and
the Creator, the dad. But the reason and I'll get to this. Now why I thought Jordan peels us was a big reminder for me, is that the villain ends up being in control of the Creator. And they end up Eating these Twisted Twins. Doppelgangers, one is a shadow puppet. Correct. And that reminded me a lot of Jordan people's us. We're like the people from underneath are at the mercy of their doppelganger up above living their life as if nothing
is happening. So, that was was a really interesting concept and again, the show is just so interesting to think about and Ponder the execution of these Twisted Twins. Do we want to talk about it? Because that is a major spoiler for the show and how Yeah, where it ends up being that the villains of the show, take over the world and become essentially, the main characters of the show and the anonymous faceless villain that killed, Casey's whole entire family or family had no face to begin
with. And I understand that from like a writer's creators perspective that you just wanted a device, right? To a amp up the story and give the hero a reason to become a hero and go on this, hero's journey. But the problem with that particular device is that you be you make it into a mystery now, right? Like you made the whole mystery, the KC in the man wants started like the TV show. W to figure out like who killed his whole family and frame them
for it, right? Because something about storytelling is you cannot introduce Something engines story unless there is going to be a resolution or pay off AKA chekov's gun. That is like the number one like reference for people. And if you don't know what that means, chekhov's gun is a story by check off. He wrote that. If there is a gun that is shown or placed in a story. In the First Act, it has to be fired by the third act. So that means that if Something
is placed in the story. It has to have a purpose in a resolution by the end. So, putting in that device there, like a faceless man, like, who was the initial, you know, response or basically, the reason why everything starts going, well, he's not going to be faceless by the end, right? He shouldn't be Faceless Men, shouldn't be.
So, you know, if if him, as a writer is like going in there and be like, well, no, he's just a catalyst for getting everything started know, people are going to be like know who is that? Who Who is the man we need to know. So so for the fact that that I understand it but at the same time I'm like that's stupid as
shit. Yes. So the rest of the how he resolves this issue to, you know if Casey is trapped by his own predetermined you know set course and because of the way that he was designed, he's always going to be looking for this killer and will not have peace. Until he finds this killer. Then give him a face. Give them an identity so that I can find him in the world. That was Casey's whole thing.
When He confronted the dad Creator, the dad creator gives the Assassin, his own face rights and in turn the villain the serial killer. If you will Steals the Dad's face and the dad goes, maybe, I don't know, six seven episodes, wooden no face. The killer steals his face. I found that so gruesome. I completely forgot. Again, I've only remember the first Eight Episodes. So when this happened and the assistant, his Apprentice find some faceless. I freak the hell out.
It's like, oh my God. That's right. What are you shaking your head? No, I'm just saying. Like, like it's dumb. Like it's dumb. Like no lie. It's Like dumbest shit. It really is like they thought about you know, something like face off or you know like or even Buffalo Bill from like Silence of the Lambs like, huh. Someone face and wearing their
faces a good. That's not great idea by episode 10, you have this like villain saying things like you are me and I am you and like, it's a weird curse or just a declaration that they're linked because they have the same face. You know, the villain has his own Awakening / Rebellion against the Creator. And now that the villain is in control of the world, through the Creator. Like it was completely reminded me of us with the tables, get
turned in that same, right? And you have the, you know, the doppelganger is From Below or the other way around. But anyway, like the ones below are the ones that come up to like make themselves revealed and known and yeah, have their own agency. So yeah, that was really tough for me. And then the dad just can't really out paste the villain and his desires, even once the villain gets killed. Like, yes, he gets his face back, but now he gets all the villains memories and it's like
weird. Like what it? Where's that written? That no rules. There's no rule to a thank-you. They'll rats.
That was my biggest thing. Like, I understand, if the world can be affected by everything that he's doing outside of the world, but like, for memories to be inserted, and like, you know, like you like physical consequences didn't really make sense, because the rules weren't well, Established mmm-hmm, I didn't like how everyone started being able to summon these portals to get around God, that pissed me off. Like I was like going. So anyone could do this, right?
Yeah. Anyone who had anything can make some in like a weapon and if any, they can just like maybe not summon it but like there is a Creator on the other end that's like doing it for know but like it basically was summoning because Lee Zhang's Sir.
Casey, like I one point in the later episodes I think it was episode 15, he's in handcuffs and this sucker not only imagine the handcuffs off like he like imagines a key to take off the handcuffs and then imagines a gun materializing out of nowhere and so no he didn't know that. That was the dad that was that you're right. So slow like here I'll that one. Was it again if this we had record this a week later I wouldn't I would have totally forgotten.
This. But what happened was he was in the game for a year because it's the final episode. He can't teleport out back into the real world too because it's making him live it out in the game up in the McCormick. I keep thinking he's making them live out the door. The world construct is making him live it out, so he lived a year in jail and just when they, when he thought it was all all over the dad, who was also stuck in the game for a year?
Got out of his mental institution by killing a nurse, and went to the secret hideout, where he hid another copy of the. What's it called? It's the tablet, normal tablet. And then he started drawing should in to loot the world. And so, he drew him out of the cat handcuffs, gave him a gun, helped him Escape drama car, and then let him to where he was in this, you know, it looked just like the house in real life, but it was a safe house in the world, right? So again, like it still doesn't
make a ton of sense. Like, why, why was the Dead? Dad and cangzhou like stuck in the game for a year. And in the rebels makes two months, it was like that doesn't make sense. I, there's a lot, there's so much. They bring, they bring home grow back to back to life, Jung Joo. She dies in the money. She dies. My favorite part. My favorite part was when they were like oh we performed CPR on her for over 30 minutes and it's not looking very good.
She's kind of brain dead. And I was like you performed CPR on her for over 30 minutes like what did you expect? Did you continue doing CPR? For 30 minutes? I thought it's like, there must be a cut-off, like, if they're doing CPR. Hell after I never have, you're just like, yeah, like Scott. Let's call him. So I thought that was just ridiculous as well.
Like I said, the the cloning of the tablet in and out of the game, the world was such a cop-out, it really was because then anything can Be changed at any given time. And that doesn't really make for a fun device, like it opens up the world to whatever you want it to be, but it breaks the rules of the story and that's no fun because then any kin thing can happen. And then you're just like well Arthur Stakes are the stakes real enough where characters are
actually in danger, right? And so that, that's the problem with something like Yeah, I think that the most interesting part of the story was that they were constantly testing the waters and trying to get characters to go against their nature and find their own agency outside of the Creator's wishes and outside of the Creator's Vision, which is what Casey was
trying to do the whole time. But Zoe his assistant in the world, she also was like on the verge of Disappearing because she outlived her purpose within the game started disappearing. You know, that whole thing and at the end, her the same thing happens, where she like, outlives her purpose, she gets fired, she moves on, and that's the difference is that she manages to start a life beyond her predetermined fate. And I think that was really profound, especially, for a
female characters. Do it first, yes. And for her to be like, yeah, I was overseas. These what's going on with Casey like it was like very much. I'm nice resolution for that character. She actually had an arc to her, you know, all of the other characters like Casey and young Soo would jeonju, they don't really have an arc. They are the same as when these are the same they don't really change. No they don't, they don't change which kind of sucks.
As I feel its characters that you're watching. The only characters that do change our like the Creator character. He has a really, really crazy Arc and so and so we as well. She changes by the end, you're right. Yeah. It's very independent and has her own thing and she doesn't need Casey to live in this world that that's a big problem with characters. There's something you'll notice here in American TV shows that will happen with you.
See it a lot on comedies especially where characters they have minimal growth early on in the show and then they just stop changing and then the writers just keep writing the same story and jokes over and over for that character and the character doesn't change anymore, right? And so that's when shows be
start to become stale. You don't have anything interesting to do with the character and the character Arc and that's probably why I liked the first Eight Episodes is that it felt the most cohesive, and you had the story. Constantly, surprising them and pushing them into really precarious situations. And after that, you can't just get away with that for the rest of the show. Like, no, they just, that's what they did.
They tried to still keep with that formula, but at the halfway point, you should start to see some growth in the characters. And you should definitely start to see some character arcs and we were not getting that for as our main two people especially with a show that only last 16 episodes because this is not an American show. This is not something that's going to go on for Seasons, right?
So you have to make sure that you establish an arc that is different enough from the beginning point. If it doesn't work, then it doesn't work. And then you you stall out on a character and that that is never good. So, did you have any nitpicks about the show? I think I'm labeled down a lot of the things that I didn't like. So I don't know if I would say, nitpicks, as much as just issues with the show. Okay. Because Niblick nitpicks would more imply that I like the show.
But here's a little thing that maybe I didn't like or whatever, so I have no fixed. Maybe sometimes will trigger some of yours in the back of your mind. So the in the episode for Casey says, As in his world. What do I do? If I got what do I become? If I get stabbed by a woman because the reporters are insinuating. That Jung Joo is the one that stabbed him is like the person that nearly killed him, even though it's not true, there's no evidence all this stuff.
And he says this like what would become if I get stopped by a woman which is a misogynistic statement. Yeah. But that really leans into how women are viewed. Like, she's not You know someone who's not a threat right ABS me like what a what does that make me? I'm like right that it's all about insinuating about their manhood and stuff like that but yeah I didn't like that there was too much lip nose and Chin quivering from KC too much. Yeah, this is not an epic but it
goes. I think in this category, the scene of yeongju getting sucked back into the comic and underwater. Water. Was so that was so cool. They must have flooded the set or something because she's like on the phone talking to somebody and then all of a sudden she can't hear them and then like boom she's like in the water. Yeah they were surprising some tub thing that would like CGI or not even see chime maybe it was different thing but yeah, that was pretty cool.
I don't think they covered in this is an epic. Why was she such a great artist? Like all of a sudden, the assistant, The Apprentice is Oh, I heard this thing. Once said, your dad took the concept for Casey from you and your drawings, from when you were a teenager like you basically thought him up and he's your creation. So you're also like a Creator. God. And then she's like, what? And like immediately is amazing
at drawing. So my question was, I'm trying to remember what episode that this happening. Do you remember this episode 70? That is too late to be introducing that. An introduction to that we're like, you know, she was also in the whole Artistry should have been in the first two episodes, episode 7. Yeah. Yeah. She was like, what kind of feels like they forgot.
Like they, you know, we need a way for her to be able to draw to hmm, and they didn't think of it early enough and they were like, oh, what if we make it that Casey was like, her dream guy. She was the one that he was. And that created it like you couldn't tell us that an episode to like that. That's the better place to it have that. But or just have her at least be doodling or something in her off time and she's very good cute. Yeah show us show us, don't tell us.
So anyway that was really annoying. There were so many shopping sprees. That is a very kdrama thing to do. It's dead. Take the main girls. Those are the moments. I was just like, okay, let's make it was too much like too much about Of a thing. There was a scene in episode 7 where she is asleep and she falls out of bed. While she's sleeping, she's fully dressed and the outfit looks like Dorothy from Wizard of Oz, but all the lights are on and it's bright as hell in the
room. And I'm like, how the hell was she asleep? When it looks like noon out in this room. It's just really stupid. The dad took an 18 hour flight to New Zealand and flew. Coach get out. Get out of here bro. You should have been a first-class should have had champagne. Like he was a famous cartoonist. Definitely had them royalties coming in had his own production house like no he was not like oldest easily been flying at least business class. Yeah so that was very annoying.
Did you like When she brought the comic into the world and that's how Casey realize that he's in a comic a second time. It's like, oh my God. I feel like Then it's just breaking too much of the of the world. You know, like Casey summons the killer into the real world by thinking about him, bro. Nah like summoning, the kill it. No man seemed like all of that summoning stuff is ridiculous. Okay, like so just breaks the world, it does it have enough.
Unlike the first time you're like shocked, like, whoa, like they're doing this, but then any other time after that is just like wait a minute but they could just do whatever they want now. Hmm. Last thing. The famous prison visitation kiss. I feel like this is a famous kiss. And here. Yeah, I would say this is a pretty okay, well, known case
where she goes. I love you for the third time and that's a running thing where he's like if she tells it to be one more time, I think we'll fall for her and she doesn't. What is this like Peter with the three crows before the rooster crows three times. You will deny me three times. Except you'll tell me. I love you three times and the
third time is the charm. So Yeah, he's she makes him his heart stirs or whatever the to be continued, like Scribble comes up. Yeah, and then she pops out and Pops right back in and she's like why do you keep sending me back into this world or whatever? You can think you give me? And he says, I was afraid, I would never see you again and then boom, this are making out in the visitation room, that's very famous. Gotcha, I don't know what's it, like, you have no reaction.
You're just like, okay, you know what it is. I do not have the same sensibility when it comes to romantic stuff as people watching kdramas because from what I gather and again this is only my force is your fourth one. So, I can't, I can't be upset at you for being, like, whatever about something. That's actually quite impressive about a show especially when it comes to physical stuff. Like you're just like, yeah, they were kissing. Yeah, they know.
Like like I understand if this was like they're like first kiss, like that. Really. And it's not even because they do kiss before that like yeah just randomly in moments, but I guess the sensibility coming from the western side here. Yes. That when there is like that moment of love like in a premise of a show that's similar to this.
Let's say there's a build up to that There is like flirtation and then there's like, you know, there's like physical moment and then they're like, climactic moment is where like the kiss happens. A lot of the things that I noticed that people get, you know, kind of hyped for on Korean shows are like things that would never get talked about it all in an American show like oh they they held hands and it's like cool. Like the why is that beautif heard? Me and Miguel told ya.
He dramas and were like, yeah, joking about risk, grabs and piggyback rides, and shit like that. And it's deep. And it's real. Like, when you're in it, you're just like you have a timer in your head. You're like okay by episode 10 if it's a romance drama or you have a couple they're going to kiss by episode 10 and if they don't kiss people get upset and they don't kiss at all in the show.
People get pissed, people get, you know and imagine what and people judge the kisses and like, it's very common for their be tight-lipped kisses and pecs and things that are really not satisfying to see especially when you're invested in the couple. And in this case, you had like a full-on makeout session and it was like, great. But in other shows, I swear to you. I swear it is hard out there. It's very difficult to find a show that has a great couple that also has really good.
Skinship is like the term skinship and you're laughing at me. And that's fine. That's fine. I know this people listening. I know that people listening will understand what I'm saying, especially if you've gotten this far into my review of w but yeah, II know that that scene. Has made the rounds and it it is something fair enough. I'm pretty sure that among Korean shows. That that is a big deal. That's a huge moment. You just didn't clock for me.
It doesn't even show up as a blip on like, oh yeah. Yeah. Like for me it's just like, oh, they guess. Like like they like each other, they love each other but like it's not like, oh my God, they kissed know. Like for me it's NeNe. I would say that the general reaction to Kissing scenes is like a touchdown in football like you're just like yes, I did it happen. Oh wow. That is the general reaction. I would say. Wow, that is a completely different reaction.
Then you're just like Western find whatever like they're kissing. Yeah. Or or in a show or something, maybe you'll be like, hey, they got together. Hey, look at that or, you know, or if it's something that's very odd. Obviously Telegraph. Like they're leading to it and you know and it's like, there we go, finally, you know, but never like there is an expectation. Like you know, I'll give you an example of 11 show here in the United States where people were
waiting. Waiting waiting waiting waiting or two shows actually. And it's shows that we've mentioned that either. We don't like or whatever. But like, the show Friends, for example. Yeah. Ross and Rachel, like the build-up was so big that when they finally had their first kiss, like people went nuts. Well, they imagine that for I mean, not, I'm not saying it's friends level frenzy, you don't know, I know, but like that enthusiasm for the moment, yes, right? No, I get it.
But the thing is that, it's so rare here in the United States because the only other example, I can think of would be on the office with Jim and Pam. Yes. That was another thing that people were like is it going to happen, man? Just the build-up build-up, but not every show has that. Not every show has like characters that you're just like they need to end up together. They and you're just like aggressively waiting for it type of thing. Okay, so that's why.
When it happens here it's rare it's like it's a rare moment in Western shows. Yeah. But for in Korean shows, it's kind of like it's an expectation, not only that it needs. Happened. But there's the satisfaction of it finally happening. Wow, it's like once it finally happens, then you judge how good it was right, right, right. That's what I'm trying to get across. So I don't think we've ranked are given our rankings yet. We I'm going to change things up a little bit.
We usually do the letterbox rating, which is five stars and we do have stars, right? However, we now have a logo. We are recording this so far in advance that we didn't. Have a logo and now that it's created. There's a Soju bottle in our logo. And so, how many Soju bottles, would you give the show out of five Soju bottles? I would give it to Soju. Please Okay let me calm down to yeah no half star.
Nothing just to no no no I don't need another drink like to is fine, we're good, I'm gonna call it a night too. So Jewel box. Okay, I'm gonna give it I'm going to give it for Nostalgia sake. 3. Soju bottles out of 5. Yeah. Okay. Middle of the road. Got it. Yeah, I was pretty upset about a lot of things as you could already tell, but I'm going to go with three, which is a safe bet. If you had asked me this in 2016, I put it would have put maybe three and a half or four got it.
But again, you're revisiting everything lens. Different lens, few years of podcasting and movie reviews under my belt. And I have more Different kdrama palate than I did back then and I feel like I can just articulate a little better. What I didn't like and what's an issue with a show? So three for me, two for you correct. I think that's a wrap on W. Oh my God. Good Lord. So let me let me ask you this, okay.
And maybe maybe you know it, maybe you don't but did you know that W is coming to the United States? What do you mean? So in April, what are you saying this year? A couple months ago, we go I'm not prepared for this. The Masked Singer executive producer Craig pledis are plastic. Sorry has basically bought the rights for the Korean Supernatural. Format W, Two Worlds for CBS
Studios know. So they are going to make that show here in America. I'm like buzzing, they just and, you know, they describe the premise of the Same show 30. Yeah, pretty much to a tee. So they don't have like anyone going, but this is the same guy who has, you know, bought and sold different scripts that have been made into American shows, like the good doctor. Apparently that was a Korean show that got made in is and that's in its fourth season leash. It, there's a TV ad app.
I didn't even realize site is coming to Bo. Yes. I know about that. You know he's the one that took the concept of Masked Singer brought it over here so he is been, he's mining cake. Oh yeah, entertaining K entertainment and so now he's going into scripted television and bringing stuff over and so w, Two Worlds is coming to America through CBS Studios. I I'm shocked. Does that? Wait, does that mean we have to watch it?
We I mean, watch it. We, I think we should watch that unique Harrison. Yes. We have a unique position here that we've watched. Okay drama. We'll see when that comes out because obviously they just announced it a couple months ago. So maybe we'll start getting like, announcements of, you know, casting and all that coming soon. But for now, we know that it's coming, my love is just dropped, like still in shock. I want to be surprised. You know what I?
I said the same thing or I said this about signal, this would be very interesting. It's a very good show and we talked about it already. If you haven't heard it, go back in the podcast feed and, and listen to that episode about signal. I would love to see what an American version would look like. Right, you know, like would they Would they, you know, do the same exact thing or would they play around a little more with time, you know, or something like that?
So, you know, it's a cool thing that they're seeing what's going on in Korea with their entertainment. It's a, it's think, you know, let's let's try it. Let's try it over here, it's a wave, it's a wave music, human comes, huge TV, movies like Korean entertainment, and I'm sure that, you know, besides Ed's Boys Over Flowers, you're feeling like the production values of these are just.
The production values are much better and it's 2016 as well, right, 2016. Another that the problem is not how they look. They look good. Yeah, you know, you know outside of like fashionable stuff from like Boys Over Flowers but that's an old show at this point. Yeah. But no the production values are good. It's just I have problems, a lot of times so far outside of signal, with a lot of the plot stuff, where a lot of the script
stuff. Yeah, that's where I have my Hang-Ups on. So, hopefully the next show that we do, yes, we'll have like, either, you know, plots or, you know, some stuff that I really enjoy. I am trying to do my best not to repeat main actors. Oh okay. And so if you seen an actor before, we're not going to do another show with that same actor in this season one, at least in this season. One, I feel like I'm trying to get the most diversity in terms
of like the show's in the plots. And oh, this one had Supernatural Fantastical elements. And so the next one won't or this one had a lot of Romance. The next one won't. So I'm trying to be as Fair as possible because I know my kdrama tastes are. Not the same as your kdrama taste is very obvious in four episodes deep that we are not not the same as far as what we like in in the world of K entertainment.
But I'm hoping that the next you will find a winner again like we did for signal and the scores will go higher, the Soju will flow. Alright, anything else you? It's add, that was a crazy. I'm still reeling America. I know that's going to be all from me, okay. All right. Well, thank you for listening guys. Again, if you enjoyed our show, please rate and subscribe on Apple podcasts, and follow us on all the social zat. ATC Dybbuk pod, and yeah, tune in again. We'll be back with another
episode next week. That's our show. I'm Jessica and I'm Rico, and this has been the ATC It's daebak K. Rambles podcast.