The Trunk / Ep. 84

I'm Jessica and this is Tabaki Rambles where a couple of friends review Korean dramas, except it's not two friends today, it's a trio of friends. That's right, it is a drama trio episode. Today I am joined by Caitlin from No sleeper dramas vlog and podcast and Liliana from T and Soju podcast. How are you guys doing today? Oh yeah, yeah. All good. All good here. Yeah. We had a double header today, this is our second. Recording. Of the day.

So we've been here pretty much the whole day recording with each other and we haven't gotten sick of it yet. We are going to talk about the trunk today and I know that Liliana watched it late last year when it aired and you actually, I think you did an episode on it. I. Did I did. I purposely did not listen to your episode because I didn't want to be spoiled on what you thought about it, so please forgive me. I will be going and listening to it after we finish wrap this recording.

And. If I'm to understand Caitlin, you're maybe 10 minutes removed from finishing this show. Yeah, I basically knew. I, I mean, we knew we were reviewing this late in January. So I was like, I'm just going to wait until January to watch it. And then I ended up having to binge it in the last two days, including 10 minutes ago. Yeah, nice. So before we get into it, before we get into the fun, if this is your first time listening, go ahead and subscribe on your favorite podcast app.

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You can check out the page on patreon.com/tibach Pod and thank you shout out to our patrons, Janet, Curtis, Bale, Cindy, CD, Alana, Grace, Lorna, Sammy, Caitlin, Julia #1, Michelle, Tenmei, Martha, Delphia, Maria, Sarah, Julia #2 and Pam Thank you guys for being patrons and thank you also to all the free patrons on there as well. All right, we're going to get into the non spoiler section of the trunk. Are you guys ready? Yeah, Yes, I am. Nice, the My Drama List synopsis reads.

Angie works for a contract marriage provider in NM, arranging one year marriages for clients. After completing her 4th contract, she meets Jung Wan, a music producer for her 5th. Zhang Wan, still haunted by the pain of his past and missing his ex-wife Sol Yong, starts his second marriage with Ng. As they grow closer, a mysterious trunk is discovered in a lake, unraveling dark

secrets behind the NM company. This show is adapted from the novel Trunk by Kim Ryeong, which was first published in May 2015. It's about 10 years old. This show aired in its entirety November 29th, 2024. It's 8 episodes long, directed by Kim Kyute, a really prolific director. So he's directed Worlds within Iris, Padam Padam, that winter the wind blows. It's all right. This is love, which we know all about Liliana because you guessed it on that episode with me reviewing it.

He's also directed Moon Lover, Secret Heart Rio, which is a huge show from 2016, which is finally coming to Vicki, streaming pretty soon. Coming soon is the tag right now on that. And of course, there's an episode on the podcast feed for that show. The show is written by or adapted by Pakun Young. And I really didn't know who she was until I looked her up. And then I was like, oh, right, she's written Huadong from 2016, Romance Full of Life, Housewife, Detective, The Third Charm, and

I have not done my best yet. It really made sense when I saw that she had written the third charm. Then I was like, oh, that makes total sense to me. The trunk and the third charm, I don't know, it just made a lot of sense. That really took a lot of people by surprise that show and was tonally not what people were expecting. It's a little shocking and yeah, is it a romance? I don't know. I don't know if you guys have any experience with Pakkun Young

or the director's other work. The director? I don't think so for that director, apart from it's OK, is it? It's OK That's love. Is that the one he directed? I think that's the only one I've actually watched out of that list from him. And for the writer who are wrong because, I mean, pretty people, let's not. Yeah, enough said. I think that's the only two things I've watched out of those lists. For the director, definitely moon lovers. I've watched.

I want to say I I mean I I iris, I did watch too. I can't remember if I've watched padam padam. I feel like I have, but I can't remember. I have to remember what it even is too. But anyway, so I've watched a couple of the director. I have watched none of the writer but I like recognize the titles obviously. All right, this show stars Kong Yu as Han Zhong Wan. He is our male lead, of course. He is a prolific Kalu star in his 40s at this point and still

looking damn fine. He's done about 15 or so movie, yet everyone's smiling on this speed, on this speed right now. Kim Jong, born 1982. He did that movie in 2019. Age of Shadows, 2016, Train to Pusan, of course, 2016, A Man and a woman from 2016. I feel like that goes hand in hand with this show. If you haven't seen A Man and a Woman, I highly recommend it. Of course TV he's most recently been in squid game season 2 the silent sea from 2021 Goblin.

Of course he's the goblin, the great and lonely God and coffee Prince from O seven. Really not as many shows as you would expect when you look it up, but his Co star is Sohyun Jin. He she plays no Ng. You might have seen her in Why her? You are my spring, The beauty inside temperature of love, Doctor Romantic, another Miss O and let's eat too. So what? What is your experience with Sohyunjin and Kongyu? You guys. So for Gongye, we all know I didn't finish Goblin and apart

from that nothing. I've only like, I've seen his cameos in Squid Gains 1 and that was it. I had not watched him in anything else and I don't know why I he does. I suppose for dramas he does. Like he's done a lot of older dramas and I tend to not really go back to older dramas all the time. So yeah, I know. I know Goblin. But look, guys, we're not going to go down that road again. As for like Soyo and Jin, she's the complete opposite. I've actually watched her in a lot of things.

I've watched another Miss I Doctor romantic temperature of love, The beauty inside You are my spring and why her? And I really like her as an actress. I think her acting's fairly good, but also I think her projects, even if the drama isn't that great, I always tend to appreciate her character and her acting in it, if that makes sense. So I, I really like her. She's one of those actresses that I, you know, I keep an eye

out for. And if she's in something that I think I'll enjoy, I I'll tend to check her out. Now after watching the trunk, I was like, OK, I get the GONQ hype before it. I really did. I really didn't get the Gong U hype. I was like, I know, I know, I know, I know. But to be fair, I hadn't really watched him in a lot of things and the only thing that I had partially watched was Goblin and that wasn't necessarily him. Like to me that's not a him

problem, it's a story problem. So agree to disagree, agree to disagree. All right, all right. I can't. I can't help it. But apart from that, I get why everybody's so you know, up for gong you now. OK. All right, Caitlin. For Gong You, I've pretty much seen everything. Like I've seen most of his movies. A lot of the movies that you listed I've watched and I pretty much have seen every single drama he's done as well for the most part, even the bad ones,

yes. For So You Jin, I kind of have like bounced around. I have not seen a lot of her older dramas except for Beauty Inside but most mostly I watch that because I love the movie so much. The movie in my opinion is better. Which is way different I'm I think from the show. Right, Yeah, but I I've seen Beauty inside, I've seen You are May Spring and I've seen why her, but a lot of her older dramas I I just have not. I did not watch.

They also were airing in a time I didn't have access to Korean drama, so I didn't really go back and watch them yet I guess. OK, so between us, we are rounding out all of their careers, both of their careers, because I've seen a lot of Kungu's movies, I've seen most of his K dramas, even the bad ones like Big and Biscuit, Teacher, Star Candy and all of those. And then of course, Sohyun Jin, I've also seen let's see two another miss O temperature of

love. And then I kind of dropped off and didn't really see myself watching why her you're my spraying or the beauty inside, mostly because the beauty inside the movie is so great. I'm like, I don't really see the need to watch the show and I see Caitlin nodding her head. I love both of these actors and I think we can all agree that maybe not Liliana coming into the show loving Kong You, but this is a really great leading couple.

There's something to be said about at least for Kong Yu, he's very choosy with his projects and he's at a stage in his career where he doesn't have to do anything at all. He just can exist, subsist on the CFS, you know, ads. He can sell products and be brand ambassador and just make his money that way rather than starring in a show or a movie. But that gives him the ability to be really choosy.

Every project that he does, there is something that he finds very unique about it. Whether the project is successful or not. You know, there's something that he saw in it that he a message that he wants to convey that he believes in. And so I want you to think about that when we go into the discussion about the trunk, which I don't feel is going to be a particularly long discussion, mostly because I didn't take any notes, y'all? I don't think Caitlin took any notes either.

But, you know, we'll see. What did you guys think of this show? I don't know who wants to go first, but. Let Caitlin go first 'cause he's got fresh mind. Caitlin. I, I love this show. I think I liked it a lot more than I thought I would. And ironically, I did not like the parts I thought I would like. I was expecting to like certain parts of this show because there was a lot of parts that I was like, oh, that's something up my alley that's speaking my language.

I'm definitely checking this out. In hindsight though, I actually liked those parts less. I'm not giving anything right obviously right now, and I liked other parts more that I did not expect to like. So I mean, it wasn't like a perfect drama for me, but it was definitely something unique in my opinion and kind of went against the grain of what I normally like and enjoy when I get to the other side of finishing a drama for me.

So it's kind of contradictory to what you thought you were going to like, and the things that kept you engaged were things that you didn't realize were going to be sitting. Yes. OK. All right. Yeah. Do you want to say what those things are? Is that too spoilery? It's too spoilery. I don't want to. Liliana. I ended up really enjoying this one. I have quibbles with it. There's a couple of things that I, you know, I have a couple of, I don't know, quibbles with it.

But overall I really, really enjoyed it. I almost feel like it's how to explain it. It's almost like a combination of a Western show with a Korean show mixed together and you kind of taken the best parts of both things and put it into this show. That's kind of like what I felt and it kind of worked in and I didn't think they would make it work, but they did. I, you know, like I said, gonk you in. This was great. I understood why people enjoy him so much. Soya Jin was great in this.

The pacing was fairly good. I think they did a really good job developing these characters and kind of growing them even for 8 episodes. And I was like, see it can be done. It can be done in eight episodes. You can give us a full arc story and you know, with really good characters. So I think overall I really enjoyed it.

I did have a couple of quibbles with it, but even saying that I I really liked it. Yeah, I would agree with you both that I came into this thinking it was going to be a romantic thriller. That's what was sold in the trailer for it. That's what the marketing was selling. And I think the problem that I found, my quibbles have to do with the thriller part, because honestly, I didn't give a shit about the thriller.

I think the best parts of the show happen very internally and happen with the romance aspect of these two very flawed individuals trying to work it out, trying to figure each other out and this mini healing journey that they go on. I thought this show was super stylish. The cinematography was super Moody and I, I did say that I think on my story, when I finished watching, it was like I didn't see much K drama to this story, to the production of it.

It felt very western and I could recast this whole show with Western actors and it would be the same show, which I think bothered people. I think that was irking a lot of watchers that this was not a typical K drama in any sense of the word. It was, like I said, very stylish. It was a very introspective drama. It's not average, it's not

fast-paced. It is very evenly paced within the 8 episodes, but I wouldn't say that you know, you have cliffhangers at the end of every episode and things driving you to watch the next episode. There were great depths of emotion and fear throughout the show, and it's about two traumatized and flawed and broken people inadvertently finding a measure of comfort in each other and the courage to heal and the courage to move forward instead of staying

stagnant. And I would say the older you are, the more you'll get out of the show. I don't think that younger people will find much to latch onto in the show. I think this is for mature audiences only. There is a deep. Well of. Melancholia in this show and this idea of like choking on your own memory, but thinking that that's actually what's keeping you going, that that's your oxygen tank versus what's holding you down and what's

drowning you. And that is really nuanced and hard to understand if you haven't lived a lot of life, sorry to say. It's about unhappy people. It's about codependency. It's a bit of a darker psychological drama. These characters are not going to be easy to pinpoint. They're not black and white, and this is very soft and understated romance. There's a lot of soft and innocent parts to them, but there's also really dark and difficult aspects of them that

are unlikable. And I think a lot of people were off put by the sex scenes in this show. A lot of people had complaints about the characterizations. I mean, we can go into like the complaints, but my main complaint has to do with the police procedural and the mystery aspect of the show, which didn't work at all for me. That was not why I was watching the show. Yeah, that's what I I also disliked that part a lot, which

it was unexpected. That was the unexpected part is I was assuming I was going to like that part more than I did. And it wasn't even like my normal criticisms of like the tropiness of how bad cops are written sometimes in crime Jamas or anything. But it was just you could take all this out and it would still be a great drama. You could take all this out for the most part and it would still

be fine. It would still like this doesn't add anything to it at all and not even the purpose of why it was in there in the 1st place really even added to the to the drama in my opinion. So that that was the unexpected part for me as I thought I would like that part better than I did. Yeah, because you're you're so into crime and that's your bread and butter and you're like our

expert in that genre. But I think also the reason why is even if you did take those parts out, there was enough thriller aspects to this that probably would have still sustained me without because it was like a character thriller than a plot thriller. And you can have thriller elements to a drama without it having to do with murder or anything like that. Yeah, I agree. I agree that it was much more of a character study than people

were expecting. I read this, I had a camera froze a review or a summary, but I think it was a review in Teen Vogue. And this sentence, like really brought it together for me. They said, adding A twist to the contract marriage trope, The Trunk tackles the plot device from a film noir perspective. And I was like, that's what people didn't like. That's what it is. It's a film noir. People aren't used to seeing

noir in K drama. I think it was a little bit too real for people almost because it's like it's very flawed characters, isn't it? You can almost argue that they are a little bit dislikable for the most of it part of the drama, and I think people don't like that.

I think people were expecting, you know, a cohabitation fake marriage trope, you know, they were going to fall in love and everything that comes with it. And I actually prefer it much better the way it was done because like you said, there is a lot of nuances to it and there is a lot of grown up stuff to it. I am. I would rather have a character growth and a character arc then, you know, have a stagnant character for the whole drama,

so to speak. And I think the way these two actors work together and work to show their characters really, really worked for me. So yeah, I, I like both of you. I also, I wasn't keen on the thriller aspect of it, the police work aspect of it. I just didn't think it was necessary. Like you said, it didn't add to the drama. And you could have taken that whole aspect. And actually, I feel like the drama could be even better without it because it doesn't add to the plots. So yeah.

I mean on the opposite end too, I also saw comments that people, and I won't spoil it, we can do it later, but like people also didn't like the ending because some opinions I saw, right?

Like some opinions I saw were either it they didn't get the ending they were expecting from what they got from the rest of the show and it seemed like a cop out because they didn't know how to end it. Or along those same lines like the ending didn't fit the rest of the story and what people assumes the ending would be. And like because as Jess was saying this isn't the typical K drama, it doesn't fit into the norm of AK drama and people were like well the ending does.

The ending is a classic K drama ending which is why I don't like it because it doesn't fit the rest of the show. That's kind of the opinions I've heard on the ending. Other people I know loved it too but like that's just some commentary. I mean granted again I finished this 10 minutes ago so it was like this is like 2 seconds of Google. Search. On an ending because I was really trying to remind myself of something I noticed in the end, which I'll reveal the

spoiler thing but. Yeah, the online complaints range, they just ranged. And I think the complaints were not quite specific enough for me to think the writing was particularly bad. I think our quibbles are, I feel are going to be all the same, but they're going to be specific, right? But the online things that I were seeing was like, oh, Gong, you finally acting with someone in his age group. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Bitching about age gaps again.

Someone else again, people who haven't watched Kong Yu in other things, likely his movies where he is butt naked with people. Someone said I didn't know grandpa had it in him. Oh God. Which is like 1. Of the best kissers in the game, people, one of the. 40 What do you mean? You wish you look that good at 40. 40. You wish you look like that at 40. I was. Living living. Look, even before I watched this and was like, I actually do appreciate his work and I really

liked this role. I have eyes. I could look at him and be like, he's a fine man. What do you mean I don't understand people? I don't understand. Someone else said that one really sent me. I had to like take a break from social media after I read that one that I didn't know grandpa had it in him because put some fucking respect on Khongyu's name. First, second and third. OK. The other thing that I read was thinly developed characters. I see confusion running through

here. I do not I do not agree with that. I. Absolutely 100% disagree with that statement. Were we watching the same show here? Like that Is one of the best things about this show is the character development? What do you mean? Now, there were some things I will say. There's some things I wish they had developed more, which we can get into. But I wouldn't say it's like thinly develop. Not even like not one of these

characters are thinly developed. Like, it's not like Gongu's characters, like has a whole back story and everybody else is just like right here on the same plane or whatever. I Yeah. They said nobody had a clear want. Nobody had a clear. Why? Again, vastly. Disagree. Disagree. I mean, did this person watch this show? Someone else, I won't say who it is, someone said one of the worst K dramas I've ever seen in my life. She could, whoever it is, clearly did watch the police.

I was going to say, I was going to throw back at Jess and say clearly they. Haven't watched them. I was going to say, clearly they haven't watched The Bride of Habec. Bride of Habec and. Then the last thing that I had, not a Dirk hole, I paraphrased that the romance was overshadowed by their exes and their past traumas. I would say that is what made the romance and the progression of their courtship, if you can even call it that, was their exes. I'm sorry. And their past like that thing

is too. If if you wanted the ending that they gave at the end, you needed to get through that first. Like they needed to come to terms with their trauma and or like figure out the secrets that were going to be revealed in this plot in order to get to the ending. That was the ending. I think these people were just going into this thinking it was going to be a romance. I really think people just like. A straightforward romance. Yeah, like what normal everybody seems to do is like, they go to

drama, right? Where did they get that idea? But like. The trailers and the posters did not give room. Like for once, actually for once I will stand up and be like, look, it didn't give that vibe to me. It did not give me like full out romance vibe with what they were putting out. So I don't know what they were talking to you.

I don't know. We all know there's people out there who just click play and be like it's a romance, it's going to be a romance and then they get mad when there's no romance. Like I see that countless times and crowd. But there was like romance in this. I know but like ROM com when I say romance they like they want straight up ROM com. No darkness romance all the time. I. Think that's what people wanted it and yeah.

I agree with. You. Yeah, I agree with you, Liliana. This trailer and these posters did not give that whatsoever. And maybe people didn't watch the trailer. Maybe. Maybe there are people who don't watch trailers. Fine, you don't watch the trailer, but you start at the beginning of episode 1 and there's literally a dead body and a shot. What do you expect you're going to get like? I can't believe we're on the

same page about this. I thought one person would be on the defense or on the offense here, but like we're all on the same page. I want to reiterate to listeners, we did not discuss at all the trunk for the last two months. We have not discussed the trunk. We did not talk about it. Caitlin just finished it. So it's incredible that we're all coming at this and we have

very similar thoughts. Again, if you've listened to Drama Trio, we have very different taste in drama sometimes and I'm just glad we're here. I'm so glad we're here to talk about this because this, as you can see, was a very divisive show. Mixed bag. I wanted to talk really fast about the book because a few people in our circle did buy the book and read it, read the translation of it.

And one of those people was Naz from the Soon Diaries podcast, and she posted about it and I did talk to her about it, and Naz hated the book. She thought it was awful. This is a quote from her story, her Instagram story in December of 2024. She said it's completely different from the show. I now understand why the show had to take so many liberties because absolutely nothing happened in this book. I'm truly baffled.

So if you'd like to talk to somebody who did read the book and saw the show, definitely reach out to Naz from Swoon Diaries pod. I'm sure she's more than willing to talk about this show and the differences between the source material and the show. We're not going to be talking about the differences. What I want to point out mostly is that the book seems to be also divisive, and a lot of

liberties were taken right. What we got in the show is loosely based on what the book had going in, if that makes any sense. We got a different thing than the book. With that being said, we're going to spoil the trunk. Get into more specifics about it right after this. Excuse me, I can't, you know. I have no tingle. Oh, sorry, swear. Discussing shirts? What? All right, we're on the other side of spoilers.

During the break we were talking at length about how insulting people were to Cong you and how they just don't understand age and how time works, and he was just so rude of them to say that about Kung Yu. Well, I think also too. I mean, you said it earlier, Gong Yu is very picky about his dramas. So there's years he doesn't have a drama come out. And as you've said, people don't watch movies like they, they, they he's a movie, he's a movie

actor. So I think a lot of people do to K dramas becoming more popular over the next last five years or so. There weren't a lot of dramas with people of a, of actors and actresses of a certain age coming out becoming popular. I think we've seen a resurgence of that. But like a lot of these older actors and actresses were famous, famous in quotes like I, I assume, I think they're still famous, but like their heyday

was when they're younger. And a lot of these newer watchers have not gone back and watched those and seen these when these actors and actresses when they were in their 20s and 30s. And so I think there comes a they kind of avoid them now because they are older. They're like, I'm not going to like that type of drama because

the actors are all older too. I think there's a, it's AI think it's a combination of a bunch of stuff, but I think part of it is the type of actor or type of watchers that are watching them nowadays with what the dramas have been coming out in the last five years or so. Because even with like Squid Game like Squid Game season 1, Gongyu had a very small. Role Oh yeah, it's. Done. I, I hear, I hear in like season 2, it's a little bigger role.

I haven't seen season 2 yet, but like I've heard it's a bigger role and he did get recognition. He did get recognition more for season 2. I saw a lot more people talking about him per season 2 versus season 1. All right, so we're going to get into the trunk and we're going to settle down into a little rhythm here. We're going to talk about it. Caitlin, did you have anything you wanted to start us off with since you are the freshest on

this? Yeah, I'll start off with something a little comedic because it's going to be really quick, but I was not expecting the cameo right out of the gate in episode 1 of Jung Kung Ho. I like, was not expecting it whatsoever. And then they all of a sudden came out with that. And then I want to say. Wait, there was also a second cameo, which you wouldn't know it unless you looked up the cast list, but the other husband that was on his deathbed and he was thanking her, all hooked up to

the machines and stuff. That was also somebody that was a male lead from The Greatest Love. You know that guy? Wow, yes. I don't remember his name, but I do. I do know who you're talking about. Oh. My God, hold on, Chasung 1. Chasung, One who is also a star of yesteryear, who audiences would recognize in Korea, but he's all covered up and you would only know it if you looked at the credits.

But two cameos. All right, So the only notes that I have are that the female lead shows up at his house with her trunk, her own emotional baggage, so to speak, and she immediately strips down naked and takes a shower in his shower, which is really shocking and weird. I thought that was very invasive. I don't know if you guys had any thoughts about her method and how she just sort of walks around and inspects the house and opens all the closets and sees the other trunk in his

closet. And you can tell that she's just rifling through his life and inserting herself. And you can see that she is working him out, figuring him out. And also it's figurative, right? Like she's also doing that literally, but she's doing that figuratively in his life. And this is a little violating. I think to me that scene was almost like, yes, it was invasive, but it's almost like her shedding her outside clothes and kind of almost stepping into the character of his wife, if

that makes sense. That's what, yeah, that's what I was going to say too. She's like going in, assessing the situation, so to speak, so. I love that word. Step into the role of wife, she is like almost evaluating what does this role require of me? What is he going to require of me, so to speak. So I think that was a really in your face way of doing it almost.

But I, I liked how it was done because if you are watching this and you weren't watching it with, you know, I don't know, a deeper look or whatever, it can just look like she's getting there and getting very comfortable and going for a shower. But it's so much more than that, I think. And this show is actually really good at doing this sort of stuff where on the surface it seems like something, but if you dig, it's got a lot of more baggage

for you to unpack. And I I really like that aspect of it. So compare that with the other wife, the ex-wife who I have in my notes, she is an emotional terrorist. She. Needs therapy. Yeah, yeah, the woman needs some serious therapy. That's basically all I have for her. So she's an emotional terrorist? I think some people almost commented that she's like a sociopath or something because everything needs to be her control and everything needs to be for her and what not.

And she is actually one of my quibbles with this show. Her character. Oh. Yeah, go for it, one. Of my quibbles, so it's not necessarily throughout the show because I actually really enjoyed the seeing Gongu's character like a break away from her and it starts happening very quickly because I think it's like episode 2 or something or episode 2 or 3.

It's like the smallest detail, but our female lead, she hurts herself and he takes her to the hospital and he gong you gets a call from his ex-wife and he's like, I'm really sorry I can't talk right now. And he puts the phone down and it's like it's the smallest thing. But it's something that before, you know, in G came in.

He wouldn't have done that. So I actually really liked having such a horrible character, her in a sense as the ex-wife, because watching him break away from that was really satisfying for me. But my quibble is horrending. I didn't like it. I didn't like how her character was just like, yeah, I know I'm bad and I'm dealing like I I'm going to be that way and I'm dealing with it. And it's kind of like, yeah, I needed a little bit more from.

Yeah, I saw, I saw that complete too, just from a couple of people that she didn't deserve her redemptive arc. See I didn't really see it as redemptive arc. Exactly. I don't think she even got one. Yeah, that much. I mean, I think like she when she got rejected and knew she couldn't get back with Gong Yu, she tried to get back with the other dude and he ended it too. And then at the very end. She was like, I'm going to help this dude through his trial and get him a lawyer and then we'll

see what happens. Like, I I don't think she learned anything. I think she wanted the other guy because she can control him again. She can. He has to do whatever she wanted to do because of the contract. So I yeah, I don't, I don't see her. I didn't see her having redemptive arc whatsoever. Yeah, I think because there were very few consequences for her, people thought, oh, redemptive

arc. Yeah, yeah. But I don't think she, I mean what she got was nobody under her thumb, nobody was within her grasp or control. And that is torture for a narcissist. Right. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So yeah, I don't know. I, I think she got some a very sliver of punishment there where she basically pushed everyone away due to her own antics and now she has nobody left to control. She's just grasping at straws and trying to help this guy with

his murder trial. But you know, it is what it is. She I think I had someone question me about the baby and the chain of events of the baby. Yeah. So I didn't really think it through. I mean, I did think it through, but I didn't really put a lot of thought into it, if that makes any sense. She obviously her and Kong, you were going to have a child. She was pregnant. I think she was somehow in her last trimester or something like that.

And there was a like a cutaway scene of her on the toilet struggling. I thought it was she was having a miscarriage. So what I I didn't get that from the story. What I thought was because she gets run over while she's pregnant. Oh no, she doesn't get run over. She. Steps, Yeah, sorry, she steps, she steps.

And I think that would have been actually something that I would like them to explore the little bit in her character, because they do talk about depression and whether she does that for attention or not, or whether she's depressed in that moment because she's losing everything and she doesn't want to be a mom and she's now figuring out that she's going to have this baby. Yeah, that was something that I wanted to pick at more,

definitely. Was her psyche there and how was it because she was afraid of losing her power and identity as a woman in her control over Kong you, who really did want to be a father and was happy that she was pregnant and was looking forward to the baby. And she was like, I've never wanted to be a mother. I've never thought about this. I hate being pregnant, so on and so forth.

I truly think she was having a miscarriage and then she was already kind of hating the idea of having a baby, and then she just hastened it along, stepped in front of the car to, I think, just kill herself because, like, yeah, she was deeply unhappy. It could have been, I don't know, hormones. Pregnancy does weird things to women. I'm just saying. It does. It does, sorry, it does, and she survives. But there's that dilemma where they asked the father, Kong,

you, what do you want to do? Save her or save the baby? We can only save one. And he says save the baby. I don't whatever you do, save the baby. She overhears this and it does horrible things to her mind. And heart, actually, that whole segment is a very interesting segment because who do you save in a situation like that? There's couples that would argue save the mother. We can try for another baby. You know, there's stuff like

that. There's couples that would argue save the baby, but then you're not only a widowed father, but you're also having to raise a newborn by yourself with, you know, no experience. And I think that that was a really interesting point that we can understand where Gongu's

character is coming from. But for a character like his ex-wife, for somebody else that isn't even born to be chosen over her from, you know, the husband that she thought was under her thumb completely, that must have I. Think. It broke her. Because. She was already, yeah, she was already unwell. And then that on top of it for something that was so unwanted from her. Yeah, that that would have broken her, I think.

Now, I don't know the laws or anything in Korea about should they just have asked the mother if if she's lucid and she's there, just ask her. She's a steward of her own healthcare. Do you want us to save the baby or not? I'm not sure if the husband would be the one to make that decision. I don't know. That seems like AK drama ISM. But barring that, yeah, that is of conundrum that nobody wants to answer. And the movie and the book are

both touted as being feminist. With that label in mind, what how do you feel about her character? The ex-wife I see, I kind of like, there's one specific scene that I'm thinking about and you guys will know straight away what scene it is that had a lot of people up in arms. And it's the scene where her current husband is showering and she comes in and kind of like is oogling him and whatnot.

And a lot of people had a lot of trouble with that scene specifically because they thought it was done in poor taste. And, you know, it wasn't necessary. But I'm like, do you know what that kind of like is woman forward, so to speak? I don't understand why it was such badly received because I'm like, why can't a woman do that? Why? If it was a man in that situation, you probably wouldn't

have argued so much. Like why is there why are we standing on here and saying, oh, that was done important. No, it wasn't. She was looking at a fine man. What do you want? Like what do you expect? I was supposedly my husband that she's, you know, having lots of sex with like what do you expect? Yes. But I think also it, I think it also played into her character. It wasn't just a woman. It wasn't just a woman looking at a nice looking man.

It was a power play. It was her being like, I have a contract with you, you have to do whatever I say. And so that means I can you can't come over here, you can't touch me, but I can look at you all I want. And I mean, I think that fit her character to AT like she would. It would definitely be something her character would do. Yeah, the sex scenes as well as the denial of sex is all part of her character, and I feel like it's very feminist, if that makes any sense. Like, yeah, why not?

Why not? Why can't you say no? It's her body. It's her. Yeah, like enough said, It's her body, so. Why can't you say no? And why can't you do it on the couch if you want? And The thing is, they are in a contract relation, literally a contract relationship, and it stipulates that she can do whatever the heck she wants, so she's paying for it, so. Yeah. So there was, there's a couple of things. This leads into a couple of questions, which is, one,

thoughts on the sex scenes. 2 Was it gratuitous? Which the overwhelming sense that I got online was yes. People thought that all the sex scenes, especially with her, were gratuitous. The ex. And does it perpetuate the idea that all people with sexual desire are evil because she is so unhinged? OK, so again, I watched this after it aired, after everybody had been talking about it, right?

So the way that people reacted about these sex scenes, I thought one, I thought it was a completely different person having sex scenes. I didn't understand. I because like the ones that I read did not name a character in in name. They just were like the sex scenes are over the top or whatever. So I was assuming it was the leads. I was assuming it was Gong Yu and his relationship. So I was very surprised when it was actually her. And again, I think it fit her character really well.

Like, I didn't think it was over the top. I think it was very much along with what her character was. I mean, she knew she had this IUD in her. She did not want to get pregnant again. She was like, I'm paying for this dude to be my husband, this nice, younger, very fit, good looking guy. I'm going to have fun. I'm going to control him and

have a good time and use him. And she definitely used him because I think there came a point in her relationship with him where she was not satisfied by what she was trying to get out of her ex-husband. So she went and had sex with him to have some sort of control in her life because if she didn't have her current husband, her life would fall apart. I did not think it was over the top. I did not think it was like came out of nowhere.

Like, yeah, it was a little surprising because it's a like you walk in and you think it's AK drama and then they have that. But it's not like I was expecting. I also was expecting with giving people's reactions that it wouldn't be the woman that was having a full frontal scene. I assumed it was the men, which you normally don't even see in American television most of the time. So I assumed I was fully expecting to see male genitalia in this show.

And I didn't see anything. Like when she went into the locker room to look at her husband. I was like, oh, OK, this is the scene that you're going to see the male genitalia. No, not at all. So no, I did not. I disagreed with most of what people said. Also their reaction. I assumed there was going to be a lot more sex scenes. Yeah, there wasn't. That bad 'cause there's really one, there's like one sex scenes, Yeah. So yeah. I thought the same thing.

I've honestly, personally, I just kind of went, I don't know, maybe I'm just desensitized or maybe I just thought it was fitting. When they cut to it, I didn't even blink. I didn't even bat an eye. I was like, this is this fits. And we kept going. Then it was the next couple of nights that I looked online and I was like, oh shit, people have not seen ass before. People don't know how to act. And it was incredible.

The viral videos that were being shared about this stupid ass sex scene that I thought was nothing to write home about. I don't know. I don't know. Again, maybe this show benefits from an older audience and the youngins just haven't been here long enough to see some of this in AK drama or just. I mean, I was shocked. I was shocked that people were clutching pearls over this. It was to me, like you both said, it fitted her character. It's just a woman taking her pleasure how she wants it.

I mean, and it fits with her character and her control. And also it kind of adds another layer to because then later on, we do have a sex scene between, you know, our main couple. And you can kind of see the differences of, you know, what they're building and the type of relationships in those scenes. And you know, you can directly compare them and say this is, you know what a healthier at that point. It's not quite healthy yet, but you know what I mean?

They're working on it. They care for each other. They're working on a situation as directly opposed to the ex-wife that feels like she's using her current husband for her needs and to fulfil whatever black hole she has in her soul, so to speak. So it didn't bother me. It didn't. Didn't bother me. And bother me, yeah. I thought people were going to talk more about the fact that this show has a weird neutral perspective on sex work because these contracts.

Absolutely, Absolutely. Are low key sex work and I was like, oh, they're prostituting themselves in in this marriage, in the context of this marriage and just slapping the label marriage on it. Make it better, make it all OK or you know what what is is it condemning it? Is it celebrating it? No, the show is very neutral on it. So I thought people were going to talk about that more than hey, they're bumping and grinding. Fuck yeah, they are like that's

the whole thing. Let's move past it. But also, I wonder if they could have just said no, if that makes sense, because that would make the difference. Because this freaking manual that everybody and their mother keeps mentioning never shows up. So we don't know what the rules are for these freaking marriages, right? Because Angie does say, I think they do have a conversation and our main couple and they do have a conversation about, you know,

sex and whatnot. And I think she says if we're both wanting it or something along those lines. Guys, I watch this. That's. Basically what Yeah, that's basically what she did say. And it was the same with like if they ever wanted a divorce, they both have would have would need to say yes, I want this divorce. So yes, you are correct. There is this conversation about consent because if she feels uncomfortable or she doesn't want to but they won't, they don't.

So I think for the ex-wife it's a little bit different because the guy for some reason, goodness. Oh, he's into her. He wants to jump her bumps. He's. Into her. So I think that's why the thought of almost prostitution didn't even cross my mind in a way, because there was kind of like for our main couple, there was a clear conversation had about it and there was consent and whatnot. I'm not saying that in prostitution there isn't consent, but you know what I mean?

Like that with the ex-wife as well. The man wanted to jump her bones, like you said. So right, right. They were all just consenting adults. I'd like what what do you want? There was I, I don't know what else to say. I think the other thing a lot of people had problems with though, which I also liked, like one of the things that we said, I am switching gears in this dress, so it's. Not no, it's OK, I'm not. I'm not going to be talking

about the sex scenes anymore. I mean, might be, but like in the end of the year episode with Liliana, I said I like I wanted more dramas with Gray characters, with morally Gray, not black and white, that thing. I got the feeling a lot of people were not expecting everybody to be flawed in this, and I loved that. Part of this drama is just like everybody had trauma, everybody was flawed, Everybody had stuff that they were trying to work through.

Whether they did add by the end or not, that's a different story. But like, I loved that part and I don't think people were expecting that at all. Yeah, for whom? You. I think people definitely had to rethink his character when you find out that he was like, yeah, kill my wife. Right, right. Save the baby.

Yeah, but in I mean, I actually did not think that was I'm again, I mean, this is a there was a horrible situation to put him in. I would never want to have be in that situation, but let alone watching your own wife step in front of a car to get away from that situation. Like, I can't even. Yeah, I can't even imagine. So like, on one hand, I could, I sort of could understand that answer because he was probably pissed at her. He probably was like, I'm so happy that you're pregnant.

I'm going to have this baby. I've always wanted to be a father. Always wanted a family. Be the opposite of what my family life was and you literally took that from me by your own selfish. And granted, yeah, they didn't communicate and he didn't know how horribly sad she was and whatever, but like, I can't really 100% blame him for the him saying that either because that's got to be trauma within himself within itself to see your wife intentionally walk out in the middle of the street to

kill yourself and your baby. You also have to rethink Kung Yu when he's still living in the house. Yes, that too. That too. The entire fact that he's still in that house, no matter the fact that the ex-wife completely redid the house, remodeled it, whatever, He's still living in that house where so much shit went down with his father, with his mother. And I would be the first one to sell the shit out of the house and get the fuck out of Dodge. He's.

Choosing to stay in that, choosing to. Stay there, stay in that trauma, wallow in there and not move on. And there's something very childish about Kong you and even about his profession that he doesn't even have like a grown up profession. He just like goes to work whenever he feels like it and he's this vague music producer. We never really see who he's producing. And he doesn't have any issues with money.

He doesn't even care about money while his business partner in the music production business is struggling financially. Over and over we see that he's like, we're about to go under. He's telling his wife we can't do this, we can't do that. He's constantly thinking about financial troubles and Kong you in his own fucking world. So Kong you is so removed for he's so insulated in this trauma House of his and you have to

think he's fucked in the head. He needs therapy just like everybody else, no matter how everybody has needs therapy. But Kong you has a lot to work through in this show, this character and what's her face to Angie, the female lead. Oh my God, boy, does she have stuff she has to work through as well? I feel like we haven't touched on her and her back story, but anything that's happened with her mom, I don't really quite understand.

I wish we saw more of what happened there in the fallout with her and her mom and then living in her own trauma house. A lot of like pot calling the cattle black here because she is living when she's not on a job and in a marriage. She's living in her own trauma house. Keeping this apartment that her ex fiance abandoned and ghosted her keeping it just as he left it. Everything in place. The neighbor keeps putting fish back in the fish tank when they die.

Like it is a pristine shrine to this dude and this whole thing of he's gay and was had this I think was it like an orgy video that came out just before their wedding. I don't even fucking know. It was this whole thing, this whole. Stink. He was bisexual. Like a bisexual. Yeah. Basically what happened was the stalker guy found out she was marrying him. He he, he revealed the photos to her mother.

Her mother put it all online, which caused him to be outed basically to everybody in Korea. And he up and left and left in G to deal with the fallout. Yeah. That's a lot. Like, that's a lot to be living through and grieving because you can see that she is grieving that relationship and she really hasn't stopped grieving all these years. There is no closure for her. Yeah, I was going to say that. There's never been any closure for her until he comes back and they have that final

conversation. I think that's when she shuts the door on that relationship, I think. Yeah, so then too, there's so much going on there. Of course, the ex-wife who is emotionally manhandling Kong Yu, who has this codependency on her, he has relied on her his whole life and she has manipulated him literally his whole life. I think they were childhood sweethearts. At least college sweethearts. Maybe not childhood, but college at least. It's just a really bizarre relationship.

I think that he basically latched on to whoever was near and she was nearby and relished, you know, the power that she had over him. And that turned into a really toxic marriage. You know, she never wanted to be a family, and that's what Kong you wanted and needed. And she really imploded that one. The thing is, I was just going to say on Gongiu's character, it would have been actually interesting because he said he so wanted to be a dad, but I don't think he could have been a

dad at that point. And there's like a much deeper conversation about that because he's not mentally stable. No, not at all. And to bring a child into that environment, it would have been catastrophic, I think. And he doesn't see that because obviously when once, if you're in it, you won't be able to see it.

And I think that's the type of nuances that you get in this show that as an outsider, as somebody watching the show will be able to pick up on it. And some people may watch it and be like, but I can see it like why? Why? But obviously the characters are in it. They will not have that outside perspective that we are getting. So I think a lot of people might have forgotten that when they were watching this show for a

bit. Yeah, and I mean, even even if he was in the good mindset to have a child and be a father, the wife definitely was not. So like it would have destroyed, it would have destroyed their marriage anyway. Because I don't think he, I mean, they were both selfish in their own way. I don't think he, I mean, I don't think, I know he was not thinking of his wife at all during those 910 months that she was pregnant. He was like, I need this child. I'm going to be the father.

And then she didn't want the child. She probably would have just shunned the child and I. Think she was jealous of it? Yeah, definitely, definitely jealous of it and definitely did not like the fact that he was happy for the child and not necessarily happy when he was around her at all. That the source of his happiness was this. Child. Yeah. Instead of her. Right. Yeah, like even that's even the the situation she had when she almost had to have a hysterectomy. Oh yeah.

And she was sad that she hadn't gotten to that point that they saved her uterus and saved everything. And she was like, it would have been so much easier if I had gotten this hysterectomy, like, because she did not want to get pregnant again, did not absolutely did not want to get pregnant again. That was very telling of her character. For sure, she should have just had it go on hormones the rest of her life. So let's talk about the stalker. You mentioned the stalker.

I think this is a blight on the show. I do not care for the stalker. The stalker is pretty vague. We do not have a lot of info on the stalker. Utterly useless of a character I have like here in my notes. Stalker took an unhealthy obsession with her after she took a cooking class once. Do I have that right? Yeah, yeah. At first I thought he was an ex-husband of hers, like one of the people that she had marriages with. But no, it was just a random guy. Which I mean, to its credit,

that's mostly how that happened. Like, not mostly, but that that is a common thing that you just randomly walk past somebody and all of a sudden it's a stalker. Or you take one class of theirs and all of a sudden it's a stalker. Whatever. But yeah, like he wasn't even like a main character in her life. It was just a random passing in a class that she took. Didn't he actually used to work for the company she worked at as like some type of security person?

If I'm. That was, that was the ex. That was the husband of the ex. Wife, yeah, but I I think he was also because I know we had this question on the tea and so like when we did it maybe I'm misremembering I'll have to listen back, but either somebody messaged me this or afterwards because I had the same question about how they had met and I think somebody had said that she. Took a coping class. But he also worked at the same company that and that's where they saw each other for the

first time was at this company. Tiebreaker. I know I, I think, I don't think he ever worked for the company. I think he worked for the. Company. I think he was just a passerby who became obsessed with her and then followed her everywhere and disrupted her and got into the company and tried to, I don't know, whatever he wanted to do in that lobby of that company when he killed the security guard. Now this is a very real fear for women is that you just get a stalker and it escalates and

escalates. There's really nothing that the police can do. They won't take it seriously. They haven't done anything to you. They're just making you feel uncomfortable. And it becomes a problem when the woman loses her life. So Liliana, you are correct, but he didn't work for the company so apparently Google. I don't remember this, I thought it was a cooking class or something.

Apparently the company hired him to be a self defensive instructor for the girls, for the men or the wives or whatever, and he essentially became obsessed with her through those self-defense classes. So we're technically both right? Yes, he was employed by the company but it was a self-defense contractor class so they didn't meet in a class and ironically he was hired by the company. I thought it was a. Cooking class.

Because, because, because then when they talk about it with like his CEO, the CEO said it would look bad on the company if we had hired somebody who'd done this. So we took care of it by sending him to a psych ward quietly instead. So that's why I thought I remembered something along the lines that he had done something

for the company. Well, no, it would look bad on the company because he entered the premises, killed an employee of the company, was stalking an employee of the company who was the female lead. And then if they went to the police, the police would be like, oh, OK, So asking a bunch of questions, what do you do? What does this company do? When on what day did he come by yada yada. And this whole subdivision of this company is under the table. This is. Illegal. Yeah, right. These.

Contract marriages are illegal, so that's why they're like, we can't let this get out. We have to handle this quietly. Right. But yeah, you guys are both right. We're, we're both right essentially is yes, he did work for the company, but not in the capacity that we assumed he'd be working for the company. OK well I did appreciate that one-on-one he had with the ex-wife when he mocked her and imitated her. Oh, that was juicy. That was great.

I think the actor who played him was phenomenal. Oh yeah, I had never, I had never seen him in a drama before. And if I I didn't remember him from a drama before. Yeah, I but I would say this storyline is a Horror Story in real life. So many stories of stalkers very much like this, and it just escalates and it always ends really badly. When Konyu invites him into the house, I was like, oh. I was like, what the hell are you doing? What the fuck? Yeah, that was a wild choice on

his part. I was like, what are you doing? You are literally bringing his stalker into her inner sanctum. What are you doing? What are you doing? Also, by the way, the actor who played her contract marriage husband, The actor who played the husband, the contract husband, this is his first acting role. Oh, oh, for the ex-wife. For the ex-wife, yes. OK. This is his first acting role. Oh. My God, apparently he was on a dating show. Like a reality dating show.

Yeah, he fine the but yeah, so Kong Yu again, that character just allowing the stalker into the house and being like pretty please stop stalking my wife. Yeah, yeah, where's a shotgun? Like get off my property that I don't understand that at all. It was a very childish move. Again, so sheltered and no St. smarts at all from Kong. Yu's character doesn't understand the threat to his wife, you know in G at all. Oh God. I just didn't understand the

stalker and how it just. That was the tension of the show that I couldn't get behind. I agree. Yeah, I it it wasn't needed and I wasn't. Needed. They could have gone the route of beefing up NM Corporation to be more sinister. That's what I wanted them to do. I wanted to know more about the company. I mean, you could do like multiple seasons of this show with different couples and different thing. Like there's a lot you could do with that. You could do multiple seasons.

There's like a whole universe you could do with this company of like different characters, different stories, how they started it in the first place. Like the director is very mysterious in general of like, why did she start this company in the 1st place when she like she had that one liner in like the last episode of oh, in my marriage in the first two or three years. I wanted to kill him too. I was like, OK, well, did you end up killing him?

Like what's going on there? Prequel But yeah, I think I think it was like, as you said, just I think it was there to add tension, but there was so much tension with the ex-wife and how crazy she was and even the tension with her contract husband herself. Like, one of my favorite scenes is when they were all together having that dinner, and there was so much tension between the four of them trying to size each other up and, like, figure out what was going on.

That is what was enjoyable about this drama. And yeah, the stalker murder part wasn't really needed. Not at all. Talking of scenes that I really liked, the kiss scene between our couple calling you is one of the best kissers bar none. And the scene where his father dies and he has to attend the funeral, presumably by himself, and the ex-wife shows up. Yeah, yeah. I have, I, I have like literally the quote from that scene because I love this so much. Let me find it.

Let me go through it. Caitlin, you go ahead and sit like, oh, episode 5, episode 50, basically she comes back. So basically they have this interaction between a female lead and the ex-wife in the bathroom where she's like, I'm going to take over now. I was going to swear, but you know, basically go walking. Swear it's fine. And then she comes back and she sits down next to our male lead and she says to him, Miss Ayon is gone, I'll accompany you now.

And he says to her, what about the manual? And she says, I think I'll take today off because basically what they had said about that. Then she gives him like her hand and holds his hand for comfort and whatnot. What she had say was it isn't in the manual or something along those lines for her not attending, you know, the funeral and playing his wife. So that's what she says in that scene. But even like just a conversation between those, it's just like so simple.

All she says is I'll accompany you now. Like the other one's gone. I'm here now, I'll support you. And she just gives him his hand. I like her hand for comfort. And it's such a direct comparison to his ex-wife when she was standing there and being like poking at him and like dragging him and whatnot. And performative. Exactly, exactly. And our female lead comes in and she doesn't even care for the people that are around. She is like, is there for him, solely focused on him.

So yeah, I really like that scene as well. Wonderful scene. The scene so their face off in the bathroom is great and also their face off in like the construction site. Oh yeah, yeah. They start like throwing hands. Oh, love that part. Love that part and any interaction between them is so biting. I love it. The scene of I think it's the scene where Angie finds the

camera. She has this whole like she says to the ex-wife, don't you know his father put a camera in that chandelier to spy on his mom and you're doing the same thing and yada yada. I just love how Angie handles it because I feel like most people would tell Kong Yu's character right away, but she doesn't. Why do you think she doesn't tell him? I think like she said in the drama, like she didn't know how to and I really think I think that was why like, how do you tell somebody who knows?

And I I'm sort of speaking from personal experience on this is like you tell somebody who you have been married to who you have built this life with, you think you're going to end up together forever and you tell them the darkest secrets and the things that like the lines they cannot cross in their relationship. Like everybody has boundaries. Everybody has that line that if they cross, it is done. And the cameras was gong use line.

He told her this in and became vulnerable and was like, this is my trauma. This is what happened to me in this house. And she used that against him and she use that for her extremely selfish ways of controlling him because she realized she was losing that control. And that like, I don't know how you tell somebody that, like how you reveal that this line that you had this boundary that you had and trusted that boundary to somebody else who you thought was going to be your forever

partner. I found out they crossed that boundary and they basically crossed the line. That was your line. You don't cross. And I would find that. I mean, for me, I don't know. I would be it. Would be. Very difficult for me to tell somebody that, but at the same time, if I was that person and it. It's so like, invasive and so voyeuristic, and I had no idea that was happening. And then the person who's living

with me knows. I actually was expecting Gong Yu to hate her after finding that out. Which was this? Yeah. Angie. And I was surprised by his reaction because he knew she knew eventually. So I could kind of understand, I could definitely understand why she did not know how to tell him because how do you tell somebody that? But on the other hand, it's like if I was gong you, I would want to know that. That's just like, it's really complicated, so complicated and.

I do think what helps is that footage that he saw of Ng crying, right? At the table, yeah. That I think did wonders for his softened reaction toward Angie, if there was ever going to be a blowout reaction toward her, because you could see that she is devastated for him and saddened by the situation and doesn't know what to do, how to

handle it, how to tell him. So her crying there and and sobbing at the kitchen table I think was the perfect thing for him to see right when he saw the cameras. Yeah, that was horrible. That was horrendous. And my question was, did who you tell that to his ex-wife as well about the camera situation? Because he definitely said that to Ng. Oh, she definitely knew. She. She definitely.

Knew she definitely knew about his whole thing with that camera stuff because Angie, even Angie was like, how could you do that to him? She knew she knew though they were there. She knew that whole story and that whole background definitely. And she stabbed him in the heart with. It did it anyway. Betrayed him. Yeah, yeah. For her own like she just could not fathom the idea that she would have to live apart from him for a year and not be able to control.

Him and not be. Able and not know what was going on in that house. Yeah. Especially because she knew they both recognized her from that graduation scene. They both did. And they both knew. Like, she specifically chose her for that reason. She was trying to control even them together. So let's switch gears to the mystery thriller aspect and the police procedural that was at the front and end of every episode. There was a mystery of like, who got killed? Was it Indie? Was it this person?

Was it the stalker who got murdered halfway through the show? Halfway through the show, they tell you it's the stalker. And then you're like, OK, so I'm not upset. Like I don't even care who did it, it just I thought that was another blight on the show. I did not give a shit about the police procedural. It was very when the Camellia blooms to me. Caitlin's laughing. So did you guys have thoughts

about it? I was just going to say I didn't care for it. I didn't think it added anything to the show, but also I think the constant switch back and forth was a bit jarring at times and it wasn't obvious that you were what timeline you were. Following I would agree. So I think that made it very confusing. They could have done it. I don't know gradiate it like with a different colored. I don't know, they could have done something. They could have changed the

cinematography or the color. Green, yeah, it's different to me. For sure what you were looking at. Yeah, exactly. So for the first couple of episodes, you're kind of like what is happening, and then you kind of have to figure out that everything that is cop related is in the future and everything else is in the past. But I just felt like that was jarring and I didn't think it was needed. I don't think the stalker storyline was needed at all.

There was plenty for the show to like sink their teeth into or without having all of that. And again, I couldn't care less that the stalker died. I didn't think, you know, I thought it was a bit ridiculous having the ex wife's current husband kill him. I was like, what is he like, why? I don't know. This doesn't feel like why, why is he even doing that?

I didn't quite. For me personally, I didn't think his reasons were strong enough to warrant that response in a way because from what I gather he didn't want him to released the documents because that would bring the company down and he didn't want his fake marriage to end or something along those lines. That's kind of like what I. It was also revenge. It was revenge because he killed. He was a keeper. He was a security guard before he became a husband.

So he killed his colleague. His coworker was killed in front of him in the lobby. So he killed the serial killer, the stalker guy to get revenge for his Co worker? Yeah, that husband. That fine fine husband had trauma of his own. Yeah, I don't think you're wrong, Liliana. I think that also was an aspect that he didn't want the marriage to end, so getting rid of the stalker would preemptively maybe not Ngongyu's marriage as well as his own marriage. So I think you aren't wrong in

your reasoning too. But I actually was surprised by that. I wasn't expecting him to be the person who did it at all. So I, because it was so unpredictable, because he never really crossed my mind, I didn't expect him to be a security guard or a keeper of the company. I always assumed he was just the husband, whatever. So that was surprising. But then the also the other thing that, and this was like my own imagination, which I wish they kind of did, but they

didn't. When she goes into the field to get this trunk right and to open this trunk and she realized she couldn't open it because it's the wrong trunk. Yeah. Before they, and this was before they revealed what was actually in the trunk. Right. I immediately was like OK who in the house also works for this for this company who also is a contract wifer, her husband. I was like is gong you also a contract husband? Like what is going on? Or was the ex-wife also a contract wife?

What is going on? Of course that didn't happen, but that was where my mind went when the second trunk was because like, what are the odds that the same trunk exists twice in the house? Granted, she found it when she was first unpacking in episode 1, but still it's. Because she made it, the ex-wife made it so because the ex-wife. So there's a flashback that Angie is buying that specific trunk and gong, you and the ex-wife are in the shop and she

says I want that trunk as well. So she made it that way because. She's crazy. Right, right, right. I forgot. I forgot about that scene. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. What did you think? I was think of what was inside the trunk. That was the other bit of this mystery was what could possibly be inside this trunk. We find out that it's baby clothes and baby paraphernalia from the child that they lost for what the Kong Yu and his

ex-wife lost. What did you guys think of that being the, I guess that twist or whatever? So like the wife cried over it, which I don't think she was mourning the kid. Like, I don't I really do not think she wanted this baby and I don't think she had any connection to it. I think the crying when she actually did open it was basically her. And I don't know if it's mourning the marriage, but like sort of accepting the fact that she's never going to have gong

you. Like she's never going to be with Gong you just because like I don't if she was crying over the baby, I that would not make sense to me because like her whole character of this drama up to that point gave no inkling that she cared for having this baby at all and didn't want to get pregnant and didn't want this child at all. So to her all of a sudden try over baby clothes and mourn this child. Who put the baby not making sense to me? Who bought the baby clothes?

I want to say it was gong you like. I want to say it was either them two together or CI. Think it was her. Yeah. Because it's so. You think it was Gong you? Or like them together. I didn't. Yeah. I didn't really say. I didn't think it was her, no. But The thing is, Gong Yu would have wanted, I think from my read of his character, he would have wanted no reminders of that baby. I don't think he would have wanted anything around.

Whereas for her. And even if he had stored, why would he have stored it inside her trunk? It doesn't necessarily make sense. So to me, what makes more sense is that she stored those clothes away and she put them in her own trunk. Like she's surprisedly the only one with the combination to open that thing up. So she would have put them away, I think. It's her. I agree with Liliana. I think that deep down she doesn't necessarily want the baby. I'm not saying she wants the baby.

I'm thinking she might be mourning the life she should have had even if that baby had come. I don't know. That might be a little inkling in her towards that baby. I don't know. But I think there is some emotion there from her for that. I. Think so too. Why was she crying after she was having the miscarriage before she jumped in front of the car in the street? I think that's there's a contradictory aspect to her that

is hard to pin down. And I think that it has to do with her deepest desire, which is maybe she did want the baby secretly. See, I didn't even see her crying during the miscarriage. I didn't see her crying for the kid, I saw her crying for the fact that Dong you would blame her if she had the miscarriage because he was so happy of having this child. I don't think we're wrong. I don't think any of us are wrong.

Right. I think it's a confluence of things and the surprise of seeing the baby clothes in her trunk, which is only she has the combination for she bought it. It really is symbolic, right? It's a metaphor for we all have trunks, right? That only we have the combinations for. And we lug it around from place to place and nobody knows what's inside.

And for her, it was this deep, deep desire, maybe connection to wanting the baby or or wanting to be try it out, be a mom, something that maybe it's just contradictory to her nature, right? Yeah, I think two things can be true at the same time. I think she can feel like she wants the baby and she can also feel like she doesn't want the baby. I think those two things can coexist at the same time. 1 does not evaluate the other and I think can hate. The baby because of how it

changed her relationship. Exactly. Exactly, Yeah. And even hate herself because deep down she may want this baby, so and it may go against everything that she is as a character. So I think like I said, I just think two things could be true at the same time. So I think she might not want the baby and in her mind thinking I've never wanted a kid, I don't want it. But then deep down. The idea of. Wanting it, Yeah. The idea of the baby and then hating herself for wanting that baby. So.

So yeah. I think we've come to the same conclusion, Liliana. And then for Angie, you know, at the end of the show, she had, she like, gets rid of the trunk. She sells the trunk. It's empty. And that's also a pretty powerful message as well, where she's like, I have no secrets, There's nothing to hide. I'm not going to carry around this baggage anymore. This emotional. Yeah, she's letting go. So I found that really great. The ending. Do you want to run through the ending really fast?

I really liked the scene of her going to his house for the final time and he's selling the house and he just picks up a mallet and goes to town. And it's like he is literally breaking walls, figuratively and, you know, directly breaking walls. And I really liked that imagery and the fact that he's breaking the walls that have kept him shackled to this house and, you know, breaking away from them.

So I loved that last little scene and normally I hate the whole separation in the last episode type of situation. Oh, they needed it. Exactly. This is one of the very, very, very few places where I'm like, this is exactly what they needed because together they started the journey. But they need to work on themselves by themselves. They need to work on that trauma and be happy with themselves as people to then be able to give

themselves to a relationship. And I, you know, they need to walk away from the fact that they're almost like trauma bonded because they kind of like to dumped all of their trauma on each other for a little bit. So I really liked the ending. I liked the fact that they walked away and with no, what's the word with no plan. They just said if we meet again, if we meet three times. They left it in a serendipitous place, which is I. Think where people. But that's K drama. See.

I think that's Western as well. That's very Western as well, sorry. It is. Have you seen a ROM com in the West? And I think, and I think it works really well for them as characters. I really like that montage of them just him cooking for himself, them getting pets for each other. Like, you know, but they're. Still like their own person. Because. She likes dogs, he likes cats. And they have some commonalities. They both dislike tomatoes in their cheeseburgers. And, you know, it's very

realistic. You know, these are some things that real grown-ups have to contend with as they grow and change. It's like, yeah, I kind of figured they're like, I don't really like dogs. I like cats. Cats are chill. And Kong you. I think he's a cat guy as well in real life. So it's that it's sort of tracks her as well, like her just finding her own way and getting out of that bunk. And just getting out of that house because she had not lived in her own home for a very, very

long time. She either lived at the house that was meant to be her married house or at, you know, fake husband's houses. So for her to have her own space and live in her own space. I just, I was really happy with like the ending overall. I really liked like them getting distance and perspective and kind of leaving it up to chance. If they meet, they meet, you know, and it's an open ending. But I think that's reminiscent of life itself. Because. What is life but an open ending?

So yeah, you know. I liked it. I thought it was really cute and romantic. Kong You smile at the end. I wanted to read something from a follower who really, really liked the show and they said this. I loved that it felt like Pulp Fiction. Everything was connected but not in the way I thought. I loved that Kong You was able to find love and realize the abuse his ex was doing that he wanted to love again. Female lead is amazing.

Loved her and why her and she played understated bitch with class and ES. I agree. I loved that the people I thought were horrible were and that everyone had their own misery to contend with. I love how Kong Yu's character just came out and said it. I want to sleep with you. You should know that. Then when he said I think I could be someone who can't live without you. He was just so raw and honest with it, and I love that so much. I just thought I'd read verbatim what they messaged me.

I agree completely. I thought it was a raw and honest take at very flawed individuals. It was a noir. And for those who don't know what a noir is, it's a style of filmmaking known for its dark and cynical, pessimistic themes. And that's what this show is. The K drama in it is that it ends on a bit of a positive note. It ends on like an uptick. That's the K drama in it, that's the romance in it.

I thought it was really thought provoking, probing and I don't think it's for everybody, unfortunately. Do you guys have any last words? One thing I noticed watching this was the red and blue comparison, which is obviously from the Matrix, like red pill, blue pill. And that was A constant theme through this entire up until the last scene because Gongu was wearing red pants and she was wearing blue pants. So was he going to take the

show? Was she going to take the blue pill again and go back into the illusion of them getting married? I forgot to say that this show had some goblin tie insurance. Like they go to the movie theater and watch a scary movie and Kong U's character is a scaredy cat. That's the same as Goblin. There's a scene just like that in Goblin, just a little more played for comedic effect. And then she, the female lead, wears a bright red scarf just like the female lead in Goblin.

And I don't think that's a coincidence. None of that to me. Is, I don't think, no, I don't think that was a coincidence either. Yeah. It reminded me when you said the blue pill and red pill. Yeah. So like if people don't know what that like what that whole Matrix thing is, basically it's the famous scene where Morpheus hands out the red or blue pill and Neo has to make a decision on if he's what he's going to take.

And like the blue pill is, he's going to continue in the Matrix and live out the life that he had been living. And then the red pill knocks him into reality and takes him out of the illusion. So that's essentially what it's doing. Like with the colors in this drama, a common blue, we see the ex-wife, the horrible ex-wife wearing a blue necklace the entire show.

He's taking blue medication. Gongu's character, most of the clothing he's wearing when it comes to being in that house is a shade of blue or black or like that. That color scheme and then you have her walk in and she's wearing red or color shades of red a lot of the time. There's a scene where the ex-wife once they've he finds out what he did and she tries to go and smooth it over.

He took out red juice from the fridge and was drinking it while she was trying to give him her case and everything like that. So like. It's. It was interesting and they even like explained the the matrix lingo with these two colors in the show like in the drama. So once they said that I was like oh OK I should probably watch out for these two colors in the entire drama which is why

I noticed so much. But I loved how it worked even to the last episode or last seen in the last episode because I like, you should have seen me. I like watch the last scene. I'm like, oh, Oh my God, Oh my God. Because it was like, is he going to walk away from this relationship and continue down the red pill path that he had been living for however many months it have been since they

last saw each other? Or is he going to start over with this new relationship and enter this blue illusion with her again? So I love that messaging so much. Me too. Yeah. All right, guys, we've done it. We have traversed the entirety of the trunk and if you guys have anything you guys would like to say to us about the trunk, we are more than happy to discuss it with you on the socials. You guys want to say where they

can find you? So for me it's T and Soju pod, all one word on Instagram, TikTok and all of those places. I'm no sleep. The number 4 dramas on Instagram, TikTok blog, YouTube, whatever. Yep. Hit us up. You know where to find us. That's it, That's our show. I'm Jessica and this has been the Tibock Here Rambles podcast. Bye. The.