Squid Game (S1) / Ep. 10

I'm Jessica. And this is ATC presents there. Bunky Rambles for a couple of friends review Korean dramas, except it is just me today. Rico did not watch the show that we're going to talk about today. Welcome everyone. To this very special episode of daebak. He Rambles we are on Hiatus right now. Season 2 is going to drop early 2022.

So be on the lookout for that. But there was a massive upheaval in the world of kdrama with regards to a Netflix show that has taken the World by storm and so me and my special guests, today are going to talk through squid game. Rico has a brother and his brother's name is Miguel and Miguel. Is here with me today. It's talk about squid game. Welcome Miguel. Thanks very much for having me, especially for squid game.

Here we go. Yeah, this kind of came about because I was starting squid game and just before I started it you were texting me about squid game. And so I was like, oh my God, Miguel's watching, squid game. So, I got very excited. We really didn't talk about our, our thoughts at all about the show, but we did. Did happen to finish around the same time. So I was like, oh perfect Miguel, do you want to come on Dave Hawke and you were like yeah, let's do so.

I know like what is your history with kdrama and you know with with me and and everything. So history with kdrama and history with you are actually pretty intertwined. I started watching kdrama back in 2000 and I'd say eight or nine back one before the streaming before DramaFever

before. Flex, you know, go to the Korean market and like try to find these loose DVDs and little plasticine covers with bad subtitles but like I would pick them up and I would just I would watch all of them for the longest time. I didn't know anybody who watched Korean dramas like at all like everyone watches Hmong rather anime or this or that but then I met Jessica and I'm remember making an off-the-cuff remark about this Korean show.

I was watching and you just like froze you're like, wait, you You watch Korean. I was like, yeah, I watch a lot of Korean dramas then more than now, but he for years I would just watch these shows. You know, like this is digging way back now but like coffee prince. Yeah, yeah, super way back. Well, there's so many but there was a lot and I watched a lot of those and I moved on to movies.

Then I moved on to Korean music, suffice it to say, I'm here and there with Korean stuff all the time and I'm glad I Just because for the longest time we would just like geek out about all these new Korean shows. It's crazy that they, it's exploded the way that it has. Oh my God, tell me about it. It's insane. Like, when we were talking about this years ago, we were the odd people out like nobody knew

about kdramas. Nobody was talking about kdramas and it was like, uncool, like people around us would make fun of us for consuming, like foreign entertainment and even some See who would be, you know if somebody was willing. Okay sure. That sounds really interesting. Where can I watch it? Well, do you know the Korean market on Pines? If you go to the back past the little fridge with the coffees and you make a left and right before the dehydrated fish, you're going to find a shelf of

moon. He's worried and they're like, oh yeah, right impossible. Impossible watch, it's so much easier to consume kdramas and Korean movies, and just general entertainment today than it was so many years ago where you had to like buy the DVDs and, and find it in the supermarket's, it was just not. Accessible like it is today and this this shoulder we're going to talk about in just a few minutes is like the culmination of the streaming just being like

the perfect storm. This is the big payoff, it is the big payoff coming together to show. This is Korean, media is finally on the map and I do here for it if not a little bit spurn but you know what? Okay we'll get it to know. It feels like okay. Okay, before we get started, if this is your first time listening, go ahead and subscribe on your favorite podcast app on Apple podcast, Spotify, Google podcast and many more. If you like as please, please give us a review on Apple podcast.

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podcast. Okay. We're going to talk about squid game. Now, the my drama, listen ops's, do you want to give that to us, Miguel? All right, yeah, sure my drama list synopsis after a failed business venture. The debt-ridden show, first, Jung ji Hoon lives his life, gambling away, the money that he mooches off of his elderly mother while failing to provide for her and his estranged daughter. When his life finally It's Rock Bottom, he receives an irresistible offer a promising.

Him forty five point. Six billion won prize in exchange for winning traditional Korean children's games against 455 other players among them as his childhood friend true sangwoo and commencing the games. The participants soon, learn of the deadly consequences that come with losing these games. And that's put to put it lightly, I feel silly consequences, but come on. This are In its entirety on September 17 2021.

It is a Netflix original show. It is only Nine episodes long and it is written and directed by the same, dude. Wang dong hyuk. This is his first drama series ever. He is coming from the cinema world, he wrote and directed Miss Granny from 2014 and silenced from 2011, both great movies, I have never watched silence but I have watched Miss Granny. This granny. He's hysterical, definitely give it a watch. So let's go through our cast

really fast. We have a jung-jae plays Song Ji hoon and he's player 455. He's the main character in the show. We have Puck Jesus plays Cho seung-woo, and he is a childhood friend. Also playing the squid game. We had you in plays Hangzhou know, and he is a Cop, we'll leave it at that. Yeah. And then we have a host of Side characters, which I know that will go through and talk about.

So their real names are jung-ho Ian, all Young's do chapathi, a non-pom Kim Joo. Jung Soo young, man, that was tough. Awesome. Sometimes a gone, you even gun and Kim young-ok, we can talk really fast about these PPL. So young he jiong J. Sorry is player 456 my bad. I said for 5555 earlier he has been a Korean Cinema staple since 1994. He's been in movies like ilmari, I say ilmari. How do you say that? I think it's am I right? Is it Lamar isn't in my mind it's amati but like, I don't

think that. Let me have it, right? Anyway, I know it. Yeah, it might be Italian right in my area like, but That I feel like it's not the PDI Chilean Spanish. It sounds that I don't even know. Okay, feel mot it from 2000. Yeah, that's the movie that the lake house is based on. So if you seen Keanu and Sandy in the lake house, ilmari is the movie that that's based on. He's also been in the house made from 2010. I sent you.

For this, for this movie, The housemaid and I sent you a couple of screen still, it's good. That was like, I'm being kind of dramatizes by this movie. I wanted to put it behind me. It's an erotic movie, like, almost like a thriller, but not really, it's, it's drawing. I don't know if I recommend it to you guys but he is definitely a stud in that movie. So he's got range.

So, he's got ringing, a boy has read, and he's also been In the movie assassination from 2015, which is really excellent. I would definitely recommend that movie to anybody. Okay, Sue is his childhood friend in the show, he has been on the TV show, Prison Playbook, and in movies, like time to hunt from 2020 and Persona in 2019, which is kind of like a short story, episodic, sort of movie. I can't even call it a movie really, but it's like an ass. It's very weird.

And again, there it is an anthology. That's the word I was looking for. And it stars, I you both of those movies, you can watch on Netflix. And then we have, I just, I guess we should talk about. We had June because the cop because he has kind of exploded out of the show. Everyone is just so riled up by him because he's yeah, keep your pants on people keep. It's not that serious, but he was in, Romance is a bonus book and something in the rain, both

of those shows are available. Netflix. So this show has taken the World by storm. As we said before it is Netflix's biggest ever series launched. It was number one on the platform for weeks. It's been watched by two thirds of all Netflix users. That's amounts to 144 million subscribers. That have watched at least two minutes of squid game. That's insane. It's not, it was in one. There was a few days I was 90 or

was a number 1 in 90 countries. Number one in 90 countries and something that really brought that to light was just the process of getting it made. There's a story floating around and I managed to look into it and it's like oh okay. So it's real. The creator of the show wrote this way back in 2009 like this was like done ages ago and he shopped it around and shopped it around and nobody wanted it at some point he hit financial situation so bad.

He even had to sell the laptop that he wrote. The story on. It was like the it was basically like, A Korean drama. And then a few years pass, you know, Korean media gets more attention and look, it's number one everywhere. Look at all these people, just watching this Korean show and all the dogs. Yeah, I know, we'll talk about that in a second.

Yeah, but that story reminds me of still Sylvester, Stallone and Rocky because he wrote Rocky when he was like, dirt, poor and really struggling and he had to sell his like beloved, dog, and all this stuff. And then when he finally made the move, He and Inked a deal for him to also star and he started making money and he went to go buy his dog back. It was like this crazy success story.

I don't know why. I remember that about the dog to like, yeah, I need to get him duck, I do it's like, a first thing. You do is get back. The thing. You love this show. I cannot stress to you guys. How many people have watched his show? How it is now in the zeitgeist? For a kdrama to be this prolific. I mean, I'm proud. I feel very proud that like and ecstatic that people are actually watching a kdrama and they're putting their money where their mouth is too.

Because for Halloween. This, this statistic came out with the Vans, they all wear plain white Vans in the show, the sale of plain white, Vans worldwide increased over seven thousand percent. White Vans for the first time in ages were sold out. For one day, they were sold out. Everybody's going to be wearing this for Halloween. This is the, it's a whole, you can't take two steps in any direction without seeing a meme about the show. Like, it's everywhere. Like it's so it really resonated

with people. It struck a nerve in a good way, like its massive. I want to know what you think. Why do you think it did? So, well, I think there's a few things that play, I think that the concept itself about playing childhood games, but with deadly Stakes as fascinating for anyone. If you tell us like, oh, we're going to play tag. Okay cool. But then you play tag in the stakes are. Oh, you need to win or you're going to die. I think that really catches a lot of people's attention.

Ian, there's a certain Underdog element going on. There's a lot of people in bad financial situations in the show, trying to overcome that and we get we get to peer at different versions of the same story. Not everybody's broke for the same reason. They all have their motives, we all want to cheer on the person who doesn't seem like they're getting a fair shake. So I think there's a lot of themes here that are interesting across so many cultures like childhood games and you know

don't die and don't. I had a chance to Like Against All Odds, get rich and get out of every prom, your I think that's something that really works with a lot of people. Yeah, I think that people were surprised by the violence as well, so which is pretty unusual for even a kdrama to have this much more mmm-hmm. And for Western audience, she'll give will talk about it. But for Western audience I think that was probably the best idea. Yeah.

I think so we're living in a, you know, an HBO age where you can watch anything you want and there's not really a cap on it. A limit on what they can do in television shows that aren't on cable and lamp shading doesn't seem to work with a lot of people anymore. Like people don't want that old trick where. For example, let's say someone gets shot and they move away and they, you know, the camera moves away only shows a shadow of someone being killed like we've

seen so much. Now people want a visceral look That's what happened to this person so it definitely works. Yeah, it worked for me, one last thing we'll talk about before we get into our thoughts is the translation woes and the Ugly dub that happened on this. So I didn't necessarily feel the translation Badness when I was watching it because I have a little bit more of a trained ear and was like filling in the blanks, you know? With my own knowledge and of the

culture and stuff and things. Like when people say like hyung and in the translation, it says her name. I'm like, that's not. Yeah, that's nice. You know, are like when it's not the meaning of that instead of their name. That's right.

Exactly. So it was no. So what did you think of the translation and the dub, which I personally have not not seen the show tubbed the dub, so, For context for listeners out there, I'm really, really big into like Linguistics. I love different languages so if there's ever a dub for something, I'm the person who watches like the compilation of a Disney song in 40 different language. Like I love to see that they do. I love to see how they go about translating stuff.

So I sat there and I watched a quarter of the first episode in every dub after I had already seen it, fully in Korean. So I watched the first like 20 minutes and or first 15 minutes in English and in French. And then Spanish and then so it was great but it wasn't great because the englishdom the English dub I think let me go with the translation first. As far as translations go they did as they did a much better job than what they could have done.

There's so many nuances with the language and the culture that just aren't going to translate. The show is already working on the assumption that you are Korean. You know, what games they're playing, you know what it means. If this Then that happens. So to translate everything, the way that they did and somehow communicate everything for a global audience is a massive undertaking. There are some things unfortunately, like some poetic phrases and stuff that are Lost in Translation.

But I feel like when you're translating something, this complex, it's probably best to be a little more. Utilitarian, instead of poetic the dub quality of the actors in English, I thought were very poor. Like I it was it was just, it wasn't distractingly bad and we'll talk about distractingly bad because there's a whole English thing that goes on in this show. But we'll talk about that in the spoiler space. The French dub, believe it or not, was really good.

The Spanish dub is really really good like they translate a lot of like the poetic stuff that gets lost when moving it to English but in general just watch the Korean on. I just lost the connection. Just watch it sub like I understand it's not for everyone but that's really going to be the only way that you get the emotion, the passion, just watch it. Yeah. But they did a good job, a good job. If you have to watch a dub it's fine. And if you know if you don't know, Korean the subs, they

work. They do what they're supposed to do. So right? Okay. So with that being said, we've come to the end of our our general Netflix success bit. What did you think? Ink of squid game ago. Overall, I liked it a lot like a lot. A lot. Yeah. Until the very end. Oh, the ending. Yes. I I love the show from beginning, literally unto until the ending, because then it turned into this whole thing, are we in spoiler space now?

No, no. We are not that spoilers face, okay, I'll announce it when we anyway, it was a nearly Perfect, show. That's how I felt about it. It was nearly perfect. And I still like it, I'll still recommend it with disclaimers, but I it's a near-perfect show. And I think with all the memes and all the culture and everything look like it's nine episodes, it's an essential watch officially like you have to watch it. Hmm. But you know, I liked it very much. That's all I liked it very much.

I liked it very much. Okay. Choices were made. I also really liked the show. I think that a lot of people were put off by the violence, put off by the blood and gore and guts, and just general queasiness of the subject matter, right? But I think that it really works for me, I don't know why. But my sensibilities, they don't necessarily lean toward Gore and violence and all this stuff. But I seem to be really comfortable with it and never find it didn't notice.

Never felt gratuitous to me. Did I never tracked out? I was never like, oh no, that cross the line. I was just like, okay, that's par for the course. I know what I'm getting into I was soon as the first episode where the first game necessarily gets going, then I'm like okay I've strapped in like I'm ready. So I think if you have gotten this far into the episode and you have not watched squid game and that's not your bag then, sorry.

Don't watch it. Like I totally understand where you're coming from, that's the reason. Why Rico didn't watch it. He's like, no. No, it doesn't interest me in the in the slightest. That's not my, my bag. Yeah. I mean, and I will say that it does. If you're worried about violence, it's less, it's less like saw violent, you know, it's less like Serbian film violent, Texas, Chainsaw, Massacre violent. It's not that kind of violent. This is violence with Stakes.

Like, I think that's why it feels so grounded like yeah, it gets bloody, but nothing is Beyond the pale and nothing's ever really. So if you know, if you're worried that it's going to be really gratuitous over-the-top violence. It's probably not going to be like that either so but yeah, it does get gory.

Hmm, it does get gory. Blood is spilt and I totally admire the overall theme of the show, which is class inequality in South Korea. Hmm, this is a huge basically, Uh, the thesis of the show, right? And I appreciate that. This theme seems to be cropping up more and more, you know, parasite, dealt with that as well like class inequality. And actually, there was another Netflix. This was actually a movie and it was a Spaniard movie called the platform. Yes. And I tell you watches the way.

Yeah, that one I felt that was To, that was a very gratuitous movie. It was shot incredibly well, that was that, was it shook me? Like, I had to like, take a breather. I have to go on a walk or something. After I watch a movie because it was so much, I can't actually. So, something really terrible happens in that movie and I was eating a rice ball full of sour plum which used to be one of my favorite foods?

I haven't been able to eat at sense because every time I taste sour plum, I see the vision of a clip from the Platform. Like I'm scarred. Like that movie was like a lot. It was a little dead and I guess maybe cuz I've like worked up a tolerance to see this sort of thing. Like again squid game didn't feel like gratuitous or over-the-top necessarily to me. What were the best parts of the show for you? I'm gonna go ahead and agree

with the theme. I think that not only it explores inequality, but it also explores like What does somebody who's gotten themself into a situation dessert? How much does society? Like how much is it us to for us to say, this person's life is Expendable? Because of what this person has done to themselves. They're worthless. I think that there's a very big question that's asked throughout the show of that. Like as you know, player start falling away.

The question just keeps getting louder in the background, it's like okay, yeah, I gambled away my money. I did this. I I lost that. I neglected, this but I'm still human, do I deserve to fight to the death? Just so I can get a leg up and I found that really, that was really stirring. I really like the individual motives, right?

The show did a very good job in. This is why it's not gratuitous, instead of just, here's his group of people all competing for this say, the way Battle Royale would do it. They took in Squid game and it's not I bet they take an episode to show multiple points of view. We get away from the protagonist and we spend a day in the life with all of these people in the financial situations, they're running into their own personal stakes and why they have to play this game.

So it's a very humanized grounded show especially for something so violent. And so over the top I think they did a great job of connecting the whole motive and human condition of it all. I love that about the show. I Agree with you. Wholeheartedly? What is the price of a human life? Yeah. Why is it however much debt you owe is that you're, you know, the price of your, your head so to speak? Or is it more? Is it less because of your where you come from your background,

your class so to speak. These are questions that the show does not explicitly asked. It's asking in the subtext. Hmm. And they do, I do. Found it through the whole thing. They all they all Wonder me, it's like yeah. Okay. And what were the worst parts of the show for you? The spoiler-free worst parts of the show for spoiler-free worst parts and them, you know what, we'll jump into spoilers right after your answer. All right? I think the worst part of the

show It had uneven pacing. Hmm. Like there was times where it was a go, go go and you're all in and it's awesome and everything is great but I felt like there were a couple of episodes or a couple of parts in the show where it comes to almost a halt like it. And it's such a change in Pace and energy that it kind of threw me off. So, you know, that's one thing. But other than that, Nothing really. I didn't, I really didn't have many complaints about the show in general. Nothing?

Really. I think that was the only thing just some uneven pacing. Okay, I can agree with someone. Even pacing. I can agree with maybe some English speech or speakers in the show not being like Oh that yeah well then yeah, yeah yeah. So those would be my My couple of nitpicks maybe no. I think the OST is pretty stand out, especially the main song from the that's in all of The Tick-Tock videos. Yeah, yeah, it's really memorable. So, that's a positive for me.

I don't know if I can forgive them for using my favorite Waltz in the show as well. Blue Danube. That was, that was pretty rough. I was It's going to be PTSD whenever that comes up now. Yeah, I was kind of upset that they use that particular Waltz in the show but it's classical music. I mean, it's fair game. All right, so I think we've given our general thoughts and a couple of knit picks for the show but I know that you're chomping at the bit to talk spoilers for the show.

So we're going to talk spoilers right after this. You want to come in? All right, so we're on the other side of spoilers. So if you haven't watched squid game, you're about to be spoiled FYI. Okay, where do you want to start? We go. Yeah, yeah. That we could probably talk through the Game's real fast. So, the first game is the red light, green light, or green light, red light. However, you want to talk about it. That's really matter that's like the basic concept of the game, right?

Yeah. Freeze. When I turn around, run one. I'm turned away. Exactly, exactly. So, how did you feel about that? It was in the very first episode. So I saw all of the memes surrounding it. Yeah. But I never saw how violent that was going to be and I'm not used to seeing that in Korean dramas in general. Like I'll see you in like, in a movie here there, of course. But in a Rama and not at all. So once the first guy just gets shot, I'm like, oh shit.

Like this is this is going to be like this is real. Now, this is real. Then the second time, you know, another person get shot, then they all Scramble for the door and it's just that no mercy. Like, ballast of just being shot, it's it was really jarring but it really cemented the stakes like this show is not going to screw around and I love that. Even the even the voiceover that gives the rules for the games. It's like to repeat rules of the game are, and everyone's like oh no, I loved it.

It was a killer. Wow! It was a killer entrance to the show, Absolutely intended. It has that whole swing jazz slow motion Fly Me to the Moon bit going. Yeah. Oh and it did a great job of establishing the character of each person who's playing. Absolutely, I think that was The main goal of the first episode in that first game is to obviously weed out the non main players and introduce the main characters for us in an easier high-stakes way things.

I did like that they were playing in a school field and this is something that I feel like Western audience audiences might not get is that they're playing in a school field that's the set or whatever that they're on that Arena. Is a school field and do you want to talk about the significance of it being children's games? I do. But I also wanted to point out something that might have gotten lost. Oh yeah. What's your thing?

Yeah. Something that blew my mind and I believe, I forgot, I believe is the protagonist who sang iPlayer, four, five, six. One of the characters was on Jimmy Fallon and they mentioned the thing about that. Little girl, who is playing red light, green light, that big creepy P. Statue that is a character that most Korean people are familiar with. Like that is a character that's in their version of the.

I know what we have it in Spanish, it's called luck idea, van Antigua. I think Koreans have something similar, it's like a kind of like a, you know what, the best analog for that would be like Dick and Jane like it's characters that commonplace that you see, when you're really little learning how to read and stuff. So I think that just adds another terrifying element, it's just like if a giant Cat in the Hat, wasn't The field and just turns around and you all die of that.

But yeah, Cat in the Hat. Can you imagine or green eggs and ham Sam? I Am is staying at something. I can't imagine it. Okay. So I really appreciated the fact that they were playing children's games, it was a bastardization of Innocence, it was a loss of Innocence, it was a redefining of your Formative childhood years into something. That's very Sinister and, you know, deadly and I appreciate that juxtaposition that something as simple as a child game is Could kill you.

Yeah, and it's and there's a subjects to it. It goes back to the whole idea of like what mistakes do you make in life and at the end of the day, who decides what your punishment is for that? And how long do you have to be a slave to that? So these are people who are perceived by people in the upper echelon. Oh you're getting into debt. You know, you've lost the pot, you're out to lunch. Like you don't know how to manage your money. You act like a child.

So we're going to treat you like a child with adults takes And it's terrifying. I I feel like you touched on something about debt and the way that it is in Korea and especially portrayed in entertainment, which is how we understand Korea through this lens of we're seeing it through movies TV music, right? We've never been to Korea. We are non-korean and so in the context of these shows and stuff, the people that are debt-ridden are extreme burden.

Ian's on those around them on their family, on their friends. And that's not something that we necessarily feel here in the west. And in the US that when someone has debt, it's almost so commonplace for every person to be in debt to have, you know, thousands of dollars hundreds of thousands of dollars. If you talking about student loans, especially, you know, it's not something it's a joke at this point. It's immediately But yeah, then I have my student loan. Exactly.

No, it's a joke suspected but in Korea. It seems like the way that these people get in debt is super different than how us As Americans get in debt because what they're doing is going through skeezy, private lenders, not the banks, not, you know, the government or anything and they're getting in debt over their head upside down.

And the only way that they can pay it back is through these blood contracts where they can take body parts from them, they can come into their homes and repossess all of their furniture, all of their belongings their cars, they can harass them in the street, and go after their family, their children, to pay off the debt. It's really a problem. You know, it's not like you're about that because, you know, here in the states we have kind of an analog for When but it's

also treated as a joke. You know, like, oh the mobs gonna get here. The loan rights big time. He's gonna break your legs. Yeah. And again, this like you said, this is just my understanding of it. This is something that's so commonplace. Like they've exhausted the bank as alone as even an option. Yeah, so there was Orting to this. So, here in the states we have a lot of laws that go against predatory lending practices it no matter how much debt and stuff we get into.

There's always an opportunity to kind And of slip out, if things get to a point where they're more or less inhumane. Yeah, I don't really see any kind of reflection on that. And there's a shame element that they have that. We don't hear you buy a 1200 dollar iPhone that you can't afford, but people are like, hey, at least you got an iPhone and that's right. That's you're paying it off over

there. It's like you're a shame to your family, to your community, to your friends, you don't deserve to be outside. Like it's this real burden and it's jarring. It's jarring and they are social. I is to those around them. They are looked down upon, and this is just because they're in debt, they also come from low class. They already come from no money. They're not upper-echelon, they're not child walls or whatever you want to call them.

They're not heirs to conglomerates in the Korea, which is a lot of K Trauma Center on the tribals. So this is, you know, parasite territory so to speak. Eek these are people living mooching off others and trying to to just make it day by day. Yeah. They're just trying to get a leg up and to do pretty average stuff. I think that's the more alarming part like there's a couple of exceptions.

Of course one of the primary characters she's you know, a North Korean Defector yeah who's trying to bring her family over. So that's one of the more extraordinary situations that we have where Money is you eating? But yeah. True. Everyone likes is pretty mundane debt. Exactly. She is definitely a little bit different and she's not only different because of her character coming from the north and being basically an outcast because she is North Korean but

this actors Jung Soo young. This is her only action credit. I'm impressed identity is she was a model before this and this is her big break. And what a hell of a break because I think she's not the number one, followed Korean. On Instagram, I it wouldn't surprise me. There's a lot of guys who are like really and it's partially a mean, but so many people are like simpering her so hard. They're just like they also it's her turn like shakes her.

This is what this character to she did, I think she she was such a strong character in resilient and badass and that's something that we don't necessarily see in kdramas. We're like Like a girl is willing to like shank a dude. Yeah, and she had this kind of stoicism about her where she was like she understood the gravity of every situation. We see her trying to take care of her brother. So she's more than just a one-dimensional, right? Pouty sultry girl, like a lot of these kdramas do.

She's just here like okay I know the stakes, I need to get it like when she throws the pot of hot coffee and that dude's face. Oh yeah. She's like cross me again. I was like, I love it. There's like a ferocity to her and there's a there's definitely a ferocity to a few of these characters but her, especially I think that struck a chord with the audience and that's part of the reason why other than she's

beautiful. But that definitely struck a chord with his yeah, that people really like to see women with agency and she definitely was full of agency the agency. She's trying to she's She's her own person, she's sad. Also trying to like she's sad. She's trying to help her family, which is massive. You know, these people. Yeah. Not even just in North Korea.

Like there's there's North and South Korean relations like you know there's people all over the world who pay people to bring people to a country to have a better life. I think that that resonates with a lot of people, this girl's just trying to get a better future for her and her family and I think a lot of people can relate to that and it was played what I loved about it was Was played in a non hysterical way. Like it wasn't like the feisty Underdog. Who's gonna like no? She's like, no.

I got shit to do like, yeah. Like I need to make this where I love that about her. Yeah, she wasn't sure I was very close to do. You want to talk about the scary? I do? Because I hate to say it, she's the other side of this coin. Hmm, because I gotta be on. I love her. I love her. She's horrible, but I love her. What was her name? Kim. Kim Johan. The course woman played by hon media. Oh no, it's reverse.

So the character's name is Han menial and she's played by Kim Joon Young. She was like the pick me to end all pygmies, like she was like oh there's a dude who looks strong. Let's go over there.

She was loud. She was boisterous and I think in a very roundabout way I might be reading too much into it but I think that she was set up to be the other side of the coin of this other girl I think she's your very she's kind of like a parody of your very common loud feisty kdrama girl you know, like He's very obnoxious, she's very loud. But even with all that, there's a kind of charm there going.

You don't know why you're going to follow her narrative but she's like she's the Loose Cannon and I like that, it's great. Yeah, there's a couple of so in my own movie watching in TV watching Whenever there is a story that you can kind of figure out the broad Strokes of any story, right? Yeah. There's a couple of characters that they throw in as wild cards, right? I call them wild cards.

I thought she was Wild card. I thought the undercover cop was the main wild card and then I didn't necessarily call them a wild card, but I called that the old man was going to be the Puppet Master. Oh yeah, saw it coming so I can I put together a episode right away. You texted me, you're like I had just finished it and you're like, hmm, this old guy seems a bit suspicious to me. I'm like, ah, she's already cracked it like that.

The first of all. So we just talked about two characters we can talk about the old man now real fast. But the man the this be a whole like as soon as I saw his number that he's number 1001, I was like, forget it. Yeah, that's it. He's super size and then he was only too eager in episode one to start running again.

While everyone else was still shocked at the Bloodshed during the the red light green light game he was completely unpaid dementia angle but I'm like that doesn't that doesn't track. It only came in during that episode, the gombu episode, the marbles with the marbles that was when he was played up the dementia. I would say that's the best episode to take advantage of an old man and I was like he'll Hane it out. Yeah, I think that's what would you say is your favorite episode / game?

Because mine is the gamble. The marbles one. Um, they're also good, but I'm going to have to go with the want the marbles to. It wasn't my favorite episode like in general, but I think it worked as, you know, I think it might be because I love the second episode. Where they're all outside and they get all the Back stories of

all these characters. And I feel like the episode of the marbles was like the culmination of that, like here comes everybody's personality to do them in order to help them. As best as it can, everyone's making these decisions, they didn't think they were going to make everybody's be put in the position like this is real. Now like we got to get out of here. So the marble game I loved it. It was also like the saddest episode. It was show. It was it was a like you said, a

culmination. In it was the deepest cut. I think that they Bamboozled the audience just as much as the players into thinking that they're going to play the game as a pair. Yeah. Not against each other. Yeah. It was going to be like oh two are going to come out at this and write it was going to be a group group project so to speak. And 1-800 you thought it was not the case they had to. I can't I can't Ali is probably he got done. So dirty, the worst ending to a character.

I think was his his breaking. It was heartbreaking heartbreaking because you saw the evolution of his relationship with what's-his-name Tell Jon Cho seung-woo which is a childhood friend, the embezzler the white Colour Thief. Hmm which again that's another Thing that we can talk about is that he's a white Colour Thief versus the other guy. It's like he probably feels a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But Ali is actually really unique.

He's representing an entire culture of people that exist in Korea. You know, these workers Daniel people who just work and his boss hasn't paid him for three or four or five months. Yeah. And like, It's tragic because it's like it really that's a kind of diversity and a kind of diversity and storytelling that you don't get with Korean dramas, not all like at all.

So to see a Pakistani character with his own steaks living, in a shipping container with his wife and his kid, which I found that interesting because after he smashed his bosses fingers and that like press machine, he got enough money that he could have just dipped right? Like, I don't know, I don't know. I Was like a lot of money. I gotta tell you, you took up an envelope and just dipped, but that was when the boss is hand, got like ripped to shreds.

That was the only time in the whole show that I was like, haha. Oh my God, I mean to, I didn't think I was like, yeah, yeah, it was like, what's going on? I'm Liana the fingers, the fingers are gone. So that was they lingered on that one? That was, that was a, maybe that was the gratuitous one, but you know what the effect was worth it, it was worth it. I I don't fault it for being shocking. Yea, but, yeah, I'll Leah is fantastic.

I love the fact that they have this Indian actor who's been playing bit Parts in kdramas for the past few years, comment and actually steal the show. Like, he is so compelling as a character. You feel for him, you want him to make it just as much as kind. Like, he's so kind, he saves our main dude, in the first game, he's down. Like band together to like, oh, yeah, let's do this. He shows her spec through honorifics, he's willing out.

Hey, back anyone, who he thought, Odom, I was just like when and then my heart was wrong. As I didn't know, I try to shut my brain off as much as possible, so that it could really land the impact. And I'm like, it didn't click in my head, whatever he put, I thought maybe the marbles that he had in his pouch was going to be less than, you know, maybe the other guys stole them. Majority of the marbles and he was going to lose on a

technicality. But the fact that he switched it out with stones after he's walking around watching all these people get killed with the hope that he's like oh it's going to be fine because I just got to find another player like that was. I was gutted. That was real. Yeah. Cho seung-woo was Absolutely cruel to ruthless ruthless to do that to him after they had established this Brotherhood.

He was calling him hyung throughout the show not his name like the subtitles would have you think, you know, hyung is like a term of endearment. It's implying a closeness that they're brothers because hyung little literally means brother. And he turns on him, he uses this manipulative I mean, he's been manipulative throughout the whole show but the clue of it with the Dow gonna let dog gonna do what shape to choose because he had an idea of what the game might be.

Yes. And here with the got he got the easiest shape just in case he was right and he let even 456 he let him go get the umbrella. Yeah can you imagine what shape would you have? Chosen not knowing the context of this game? I would have chosen the umbrella and I would have been dead because I love umbrellas. Neurotic on taxation. Yeah, I think it would have been umbrella or star. Yeah, I definitely wouldn't have chose the circle or the triangle The truth.

Like where's the fun in that? Yeah I want to do the umbrella umbrella or star. Yeah we well we would have died. I just couldn't sleep. Yeah, it was awful but the Ali death. I think struck struck me the most. Yeah. It was just and then he calls out here long before he's like young and then he gets shot. It's just they did us the favor of not showing him like Get shot shot. They did ya like the? It was actually pretty packed

for the audience. Yes. And I thought that when they didn't show the old man getting shot either, where it was only a lie and only players are one that didn't get a full face shot on screen and that you could read into it as much as you want. I think that he's just as important as players are one who turns out to be a major influence on the entire games, which is nice to that reveal because that that's going to deserve its own thing. Yeah, we'll burn.

It was the marble game like your favorite game. The Mario game was my favorite because it had the most tension. In to it, to me the red light. Green light was almost like Yeah, I know who's going to make it out. It's a tutorial thing. Like the sugar cookie thou gonna again I was like I know who's going to make it out. And the tug-of-war again you know who's going to make it out? What about the glass platforms? That one again, I was like, I has to be, it has to be sung, Chi Hoon.

It has to be Cho seung-woo, the child or friend, the manipulative asshole, who killed Ali and it was either going to be one of the girls. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know your course I'd be Neo pick, meager off street, smart lady, but that ahjumma or it was going to be Kang savioke, the North Korean, there was really no, how great was it when they get back from the marble game and how many I was just sitting there like, hey, that's a great again are all shell-shocked.

That's literally its Fair, it's fair. We're all equals here. So if I don't have a partner, I can't play. That's literally the definition of a wild card to me, is that they take her off the board, but she's still on the board. Yeah, she's still there and she's looking at his name the thug, the his oh Jong Ducks, who John Luke's face tattoo man, there, their whole relationship was A ride, a roller coaster. How was that was wild? That's a show in itself. Oh, yeah.

And I love that like, I loved their Dynamic together because he thought that he was just gonna get over on her. Like, he's gotten over on everything else and he finally met his match. And it wasn't the way he was expecting. Yeah, I think he's going to bully everybody. And it's like, no hits this. Wild card check who's going to bring you down? Exactly. I appreciated that they planted that seed when You betrayed her the first time she was like, okay, fine, but I'm gonna kill you before.

This thing is over, the game is not going to kill you. I am gonna kill you and I was like, yes, bitch, preach it, speak it into existence, and that's exactly what happened. You know, there, there's some things that people say in a show and I'm like that's never going to happen. Doesn't usually when somebody says something like that you're waiting for the moment. Yeah. You're ready for it to happen and you. Your, but it comes in the way you least expect.

I think, what I liked about her is she kept her word, but it also speaks to why she's up there. She's in my top three, like four characters, because she was so sure of herself, even until the end, she's like, okay, I'm not going to win this, but but I know who I am and I'm taking you with me and I'm gonna die on my own terms and that was that like that was, that was really cool. Cool. I love that. So we haven't talked about the cop, the undercover cop. Oh, yeah.

Because he's the main wild-card, you kind of expected him to bring it down from the inside or something. Never Never Happened, never happened. He doesn't bring it down from the inside. He's trying to find his missing brother. He Is super responsible, was that for you? Oh, that was very predictable. Those very predictable, right?

Like, that's a simple fact that his, but they were like his brothers gone missing, and he's not on the roster of this season squid game players and he hasn't died. So, I was like, okay, so he's in on it and it must be something. Yes, I was like, it has to be someone. We haven't seen their face yet, so, and there's only so many people. All that have enough clout within the show for them to be like that's the brother, that's the surprise, right? Yeah. And so it was very predictable to me.

That it was the Black Mask. Dude, the front man who is played by evil Moon held well, like, oh my God. He's done. Masquerade, memories of the sword. Those are a couple of his movies. I know him from Iris. Do you remember recommending Iris to me? I remember back in the day. This guy a I remember. And that's one of the only drama that went on to have how many spin-offs like Jenna had a movie. Yeah it's insane. Our house. I know and he's also an another Netflix show.

A Netflix original mr. Sunshine from 2018 so it's almost like Netflix is drawing from like its own pool of kdrama actors who have Richard and other Netflix shows Which is common for Netflix Netflix likes to push forward like the same rights over. And it's what's that guy doing? Let's go get him. Yeah, so even then is a great pole, a great face to have underneath the black mask.

And again it's not really a surprise to me wasn't a surprise to you, but I'm sure people were very happy to see Evelyn. Did you expect him to shoot his brother John? Yes. Yeah, you did expect him to kill his brother and Fully he's not done. That's what I think do. So look, this is where I kind of get into the problems with the show, right? Because everything was going great.

It was like an amazing mix of like, people are going to look at this and they're going to be fascinated by Korean culture. It's like, wow, they have red light green light. Wow! What is this dalgona thing? I love it. When a show can really present a different culture in a way where people are gonna be like, oh, shit, we're not that different and the things that are different are fascinating. And let's see what that's about.

Now when you've been watching kdramas, as long as we have, that kind of like optimism is there, but it's on a different shelf, because when we get to the last two episodes, this show starts falling into the common trappings of the average kdrama, the same way parasite does near the end of the movie. Also and it's just like oh no no no no no. And so when the big reveal happens, I'm like, okay cool. But if he doesn't shoot this cop in the head We're getting a

second season, right? That's all this is. So he shoots him in the arm and he falls into the water. We don't see him. That man is still alive. He's gonna be fine. He's fine. Like, and I don't like, I wish that there would have been more of a build-up because I get the, he was looking for his brother, but I felt like the cop was going to do something bigger, I guess, but I guess he didn't have the time but I guess this sets up the stakes for another season like okay.

I gotta take my brother down with my Ronald McDonald 456 player. What was the red hair? What was the? Oh my God. Okay, we're jumping all the way to the end. Hold on. So he obviously we don't think that when, you know the undercover cop played by we, we had you and is dead. He's gonna come back as a wild-card for season two. We obviously feel like Netflix would Stupid. If they didn't do a season 2 and we know Netflix, they're going to do is use it to they're

gonna. Um, did you expect that the brother was a? Did you expect that the older brother was a 2015 Winter? No, I was expecting me because the rules. I think that's what I liked about the show. Is that we get a really horrifying glimpse into how long these games have been going. Hmm. And the motive behind creating the game and everything. And we look at That and it's like everything that they would peel back.

Whenever the wallpaper gets peeled back, you just seem more stuff behind it and it just raises more questions and not even in an unsatisfying way, like when he goes down there and sees all these binders. It's like, how does any of this work, who's behind this? How is this organized? You know, is there like a system? Where if you win you're the new Runner of the game. Like there's so many theories and so much stuff going on that. I didn't expect that and I'm still not altogether.

Sure. Why he was the lead of this. The fact that the brother was a 2015 winner and still decided to get on the payroll was very surprising to me and I'd love to know more about that. So that's something I'm looking forward to for season two, that they're going to. I hope beef up. It'd be on the news from man because their seat there. What the hell happened here?

Because he witnessed all this Carnage and still came back for seconds and thirds and you know, he's been on the shop vac and he looked at that and said, this is reasonable like and he even alludes to that when he speaking, he's like, you know, these people have nowhere else to go, they don't have anything to do and it's kind of like in the mix of all of it.

Somehow he survived all, I guess he's my guess, is that he survived all of it. Got a bit of a God complex like it comes back to that old Underdog Story. That happens here. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it's another trapping of debt cap. Les, I'm all the rest of it, where you have one guy who Against All Odds or against odds that are just so tilted against you that it really is luck rather than perseverance and then they get on top and then they look down on ever.

Well I did it, why can't you hmm? Well I did it. Why shouldn't? Why should you guys get a leg up? I'm already here so I'm living proof. This can work. Hmm, it's awful. Its horrifying terrible. Do we want to talk about their main dude? For my sake? I can't because I feel like he is such a great vehicle for us to follow. And for the show to really put some put some effort in his story because I truly love song Yuan as a character. He's so sympathetic.

He is basically the the homeless poor man with a heart of gold. Yep, on throwing through he's a bit mischievous, a little immature, but he's not a bad. Die.

He knows his lot in life and he's just trying to get out and I feel like everyone thinks of themselves that way that they feel like oh they're just a punk going through life and they feel like everyone is a little bit mischievous like a child and is experiencing everything for the first time and with a kind of Wonder and open-mindedness about stuff and but still you know, doesn't want to get stolen from wants to have fun at a horse

race. Gambling and not lose like all their money, but it's just kind of basic his daughter out just for a basic meal. Oh my God, that was heartbreaking. That whole thing was so heartbreaking for us to see him. Taking his daughter out. He had the best intentions, he won that money and he signs a blood contract gets the money stolen. He's Jack, his face is busted and he has to take his daughter out for street food. They end up having like a bookie. Oh my gosh.

And it's Western she's like it's okay, it's okay. My mom doesn't let me junk food anymore. So this is a treat for me and I was like Western audiences. Don't really understand that. Fuck bookie is street food, right? It's cheap kids have it after school. It's not a fancy meal. It's not expensive. This is like the least amount that he can do. Like, what is an equivalent of that for us? Like all y'all I Were King. Mcdonald would be, you know what it would be?

It would be like chicken nuggets and fries. It wouldn't even be a burger. Like that would be like nuggets and fries or just all are many 20 piece of nuggets. Like here in the states, you'll probably see that like in an Asian fusion restaurant like in a tiny fancy little black bowl with some chives on it for nine dollars, that's not the case. Look he's like a dollar. Fifty two bucks for this bowl of just it's just rice cake covered in sauce.

It really just doesn't get any more basic than us. So equivalent here is like not even fry shows, here's some nuggets. It's, there's your drinking, it's, it's very sad and it really lets you understand where he's coming from, that he is struggling so much. He's got to borrow money from his asshole, ex-wife's, husband. Now, like it's it's wild. You really feel for that character and I appreciate that, even though it's very obvious that he will live to win the game, that he's a Worthy.

Winner. He's very worthy and I love the thing that really nailed me on his character from the beginning was when all of the players are getting their photo taken. And he puts like this big cheesy smile and they go to, like, the hexagon where all of the photos aren't everyone looks all stoic or scared, or crying, or angry, or determine. And he's just there with this big light shining smile, like, huh? Like I'm here? Yeah. It's, he's very nice. Naive. And he's very simplistic.

He sees the world in black and white, and I think we'd all like to be that way to still very childish, and he's built in an innocent way. Just like, I love when it comes down between him and the asshole who we can just call him the asshole because okay. That's really. Yeah, hmm. Yeah. The pride and joy of their town, which all they kept referring them to. I love that even when it comes time to be face-to-face, playing the actual Good game, you know, again is just like, okay, that's it.

Like we don't want to play anymore like like we don't want to play anymore and nobody has to die. And up until the very end, you know, is just like trying but doesn't work but it's an Everyman complex that works like for the show like you can relate to them or you want to be him so Samuel. I do want to touch on this as that he was suicidal. Yes, he was in the middle of committing suicide when they knocked on his door and gave him the squid. Game card for round two.

Right to come back to the games. And in my mind I'm like okay they just telegraphed how he's going to die, he's either going to die in the games or he's going to commit suicide which was his original intention. He's already suicidal. And that's exactly what happened like your they're faced with one of them has to win. They tried to Hunger Games, it with we can both be the winner or we can both leave, right. We can end this thing because it's a majority vote for ending

the games. All he needs to do is say Us, all you need to do is say yes to live to live and it wasn't it wasn't enough for him to just say or I would you go back that was relieved. Yeah. Right. That was exactly what he was because he lived with no winnings. He was going to commit suicide before going back into the game.

So I was like the circumstances for the same, he's gonna kill himself and the really just messed up part is that if they both would have left and even got in part of the prize, or if only one of them got in it, they both still would have won because gay and would have given them like, more than half. If not, all of it are like a ton of it. Yeah. Like so, but the rules were never made clear about what happens if they both walk away. Well, if they both thought they were both walk away.

All that money goes toward those that died. Yeah, I still don't believe that. That's going to be the case though. Like so the first I do I do feel like that is the case because the entirety of the game was predicated on fairness. Mmm and see if a we get like a sudden windfall out of nowhere.

Exactly. So they were religious about everyone having the same playing on the same Fairfield and I totally believe that these squid game amorphous beings that have created this game would, in fact, give 40 billion 12, all of these hundreds of people that died. In fact, if they're worried at all, All like actually shocked me. I got to be honest, like the fact that they gave him a card in the end at all blew my mind. I had a feeling they were going to just throw him out in that.

Was it like haha, just kidding. It was all for nothing. Like I think it's that cynicism that comes with. You know, what are you promised by someone who can give you so much more like they don't have to deliver who's ever going to believe this guy, we could ditch him in the middle of the street and he'll ramble all his life about how he was kidnapped in the amount of trust that these people have to have in. In B's faceless. People is incredible.

I mean, they literally have nothing to lose. No. And they don't accept and speak. They only speak what their guns. Like, we need to get out of here and nope, they're just standing there with their gun, nothing. I don't think we addressed this but forty five point. Six billion. One is thirty eight point, seven million dollars u.s. dollars. Yeah, that's a lot that's a lot. I mean I can't even I can't even spend a million dollars. So and it's how quantifiable is that?

Like basically all of these people's lives in the end was worth this. It's like, oh yeah if you divide what is it? Thirty eight point seven million dollars by 455. Yeah. Then that's the value of each player. What a mess it It's great though. But it's can we talk about the upper echelon like that VIP Club? That? Yes, that was where I was going next. Tell me. What do you want to say about VIP? That was the biggest. I had a surreal moment with this.

So, the first thing that I saw about this was like, oh, of course. All right. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I hate to say it, but squid game now lives as headcanon for me when I see people who go missing mysteriously. Oh, that's what I believe is happening. You know, you see things like Jeffrey Epstein's Island. You see things like and it's like, you know what? This is starting to make sense now and I don't mean that in a way to like make light. I'm just saying this is a very

thorough piece of fiction. That makes perfect sense on way too many levels. So when the VIP show up I'm like that makes sense. These would be the CEO's that this that that covered in Moss. A little bit on the nose, you know, the whole Eyes Wide Shut mask thing was like a big batch that was. I felt the same way. Yeah. Like one day came in. Two, I got two things out of that.

The first thing was, like, it was a little, it was a little, you know, whatever, very Bond villain ish but I'll let that slide. But the other thing that I didn't expect to feel was, like, I've gotten to know, like, all of these players and like this cool playpen. And when they show up, it's kind of like, when your parents come to pick you up from summer camp, where that whole like, oh, it's just you and your friends, nobody else exists.

It's like, oh, the parents are here like their In the show and showing the sadism how much they were enjoying these players, dying pulled me out of the show but not in a bad way. It just made me empathize and sympathize with the players even more. Yeah, and it's really my hatred towards the VIP and the staff way more like Amplified all my feelings across the board, right? Um it just made me think. Of course, this is about the low class being exploited for the upper class for sport for

entertainment. Which was my guest, the whole time, right? Yeah, was just confirmation for me at first. I thought that the games were like Charlie and the Chocolate Factory or Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, where these gains are happening. And the winner is going to basically inherit some sort of Empire. Yeah. But it wasn't, but it wasn't that, maybe maybe not yet not yet. We had yeah. But yeah, they bet money on them like horses or Greyhounds and

they got annoyed. When their favorite player lost versus, they weren't upset that the loss of life. They were upset that their player was out of the game. Then they were information to like they had the information. Like, the glass pane game, I found very interesting because one of the last standing players was looking at the glass. He's like, I worked in a glass factory for 30 years, I can tell the difference between tempered glass and fragile glass. Gasps and seeing the VIP members?

Hey, isn't that your guy? Yeah, this information was in his binder, I didn't even read that. Damn, it, I should have bet on him and it's like, yo, like the extent to which those like VIPs disregarded, the humanity of the players is incredible to me. Yeah, it was depraved. And what about the voices though? That was awful, that was awful. That what English-speaking was not so good. Was just robotic. It was robotic and out of. But I did read why I found out

why today actually girl. So when it comes down to it, adding English and this is it may sound like a generalization. But I've read enough about where it's like, okay, this seems like it's a thing as far as I can tell. It's a thing where the actors that are being pulled in our models who are biracial or their white who live in Korea already and it's like oh let's get that. Guy, he speaks English and

that's fine. But the reason they can't deliver the lines isn't necessarily because they're poor actors, but because they're giving no context to the scenes. Just like here's these lines read them. So that's why the conversations were like hey, you bet on that one, right? Hahaha, and the other person's like, yeah, I totally did that on that one. Like it didn't feel like a natural conversation. So they were just blindly given their lines.

Also, they were so far apart the characters couldn't For each other. So they were literally shouting. That's why it sounds like they're shouting. Gosh it's a mess but the really creepy fat guy, who tries to sexually assault if you can, please me in the next five minutes. Yeah that was a whole thing that was a whole thing but in real life it turns out. He's actually not like that. Like not a criminal but he's just as boisterous in real life. They asked him what he thought

about the role. He's like, I've gotten so much fan mail, everyone loves me. He's literally like that in real life. You living. Oh my gosh, he's like I got to do suitors both male and female. I didn't and I was like oh my God. Yeah that whole thing. The view peas are just meant to juxtapose against the players. They care. Nothing of the billions. Billions of one pot that the players so desperately need and waswe Tuesday for them. Yeah, I'm gonna day all in a day.

It's very casual nonchalant. When this is over, they're going back to their wherever they came from like it's nothing. So I think at this point, we got to talk about the ending and Willy, Wonka /, the man behind the curtain. Because we've mentioned him before this had about the players user 1. Yeah, I already listed that he was too eager to like play this game. He somehow survived the massacre night where it was like the strobing effect happening. Yeah, somehow.

He got all the way up from. How exactly he meaningfully gives player 456 his jacket and says people will look down on him if he's not wearing his jacket, which is something that someone only of an upper Ash Onward to put focus on Legit. The context of it's like, yeah, I know, we're fighting for our lives, but your hair. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's not something people of their class say, yeah, it wasn't precise, stand up straight. When you're killing someone, I get it.

We're fighting to the death, but posture, that sounds like something old money would ask us, you're killing him ago, Okay. So So in the gumbo episode, he's having his dementia episode and he finally ends up at this house and inside outside this house, there's this squid game symbols. Hmm. And I'm like, that's a dead giveaway to yeah. Yeah. And he was lying convincingly that they are as your house. He was lying convincingly throughout the marbles game

pretending to have dementia. Letting him con him out of his marbles. It's just like, okay, so he's very comfortable with lying. He also says, it's only fair when he proposes that we, they should do all or nothing for the marbles. Yeah. So he's obsessed with fairness. All of a sudden. Yeah. Reasoning.

Quality into the fairness and equality that they're given like by down, but then like there's enough clues that even if you didn't like I wouldn't blame anyone for not seeing it coming and if you completely shut off your brain, like there's enough clues in there. Where you can still logically piece it together by a certain point. Hmm But the game I think is the dead giveaway when he's like, oh and you think it's okay to fool an old man like he dragged him

through that whole game. But also what about Wonder on the outside and he just shows up like in the second episode. He's like oh you want to share some soup and a whiskey? It's like, oh, we're just in the neighborhood. Yeah, he look, he's lived in. This neighborhood isn't I. GM has in this neighborhood, his entire life for In squalor to where he is now. And never, once, he's seen this guy, except for this one like no, like, like we can stop now.

Like the, the dude, the front man says, on the phone, I'm happy to hear you enjoy the game. Like that's just after the old man was killed air quotes. It's like, okay, I'm sorry if you were, you didn't see it. But again, I feel like it was very obvious. He is the the ringleader, the man behind the curtain Willy Wonka, he is the creator of the squid game. Yeah, yes. I know which Joker.

Moment, he has the Joker moment, like, for in the dark night when which, I've always hated the same because it's so unrealistic. But, you know, let's go for it, Humanity, morality whatever, where they give the two boats, a boat full of convicts like a button, it'll detonate a soluble God. What are the civilians of button? That'll blow up the prisoners. Yeah. And Humanity overwhelms them and they both just they Cast Away the. Yes, the he did. And that's the same thing.

He tries to make actually what he did in the final epic miniseries. So the show really, he's asking the question, do you still trust people? After all that you've been through? Do you still believe in the inherent good of humanity and just like dark night? The villain is proven wrong. Yeah, you know, everybody steps over on one person, who looks like, they go away, they get a cop. They save his life and we still don't know if the old guy was actually alive to see it like that.

Part is left ambiguous. Us again says like no, you saw it and that's why you're dead. I hope. Yeah. He's like yeah, you lost. Yeah, he bet his life on this thing, which didn't quite factor in the same way that the squid game does because he was already on his deathbed. But yeah, he basically says that the rich developed squid game because they were bored and wanted to have some little money or too much, you get. Miserable is their whole idea and it's like the thing.

That they played it that way because they kind of took an old Trope and they put it on its head, in the mind of this old person. Like, all of this makes perfect sense, right? And and he's handing it down to gion like the way a grandparent would hand it down to their

grandchild. Like, you know you know when you have too much money it just gets really hard and I want to thank you because you know, without an ounce of cynicism, you showed me what it was like to have fun and he's like, everyone I know is dead. All of these people are dead. These very real. Yeah. But you showed me how to have fun and you're still a good person. And it's like, that's not the takeaway old man. Like all these people died.

He's so twisted and morbid. That he says he had this was the most fun that he'd ever had in in such a long time and that he left you and Alive. Because he had fun playing with him, and he doesn't even think him like Thanks, I'm in Earnest, like not even in spite of the people who died, not even in spite of jian's experience. He like recognizes that they're dead, but he also recognizes. But the important thing is that you showed me how to have fun again, and I can't believe I got

to get that before I died. Like we're supposed to be like, oh well, I'm glad I, you know, your nieces, he had your whole Make-a-Wish moment and you have like, you know what I mean? Like right here. Like, and I was just like, this isn't, this isn't a heartwarming, what's going on? Like Yeah, my God, I hate that he almost insinuates that he doesn't need squid game anymore to feel alive because there's nothing like the experience of being in the game, right?

At this point, if he would have carried on, living forget it, like he would have invented even worse games so they would have a front row. It's and I think that plays back to being rich, right? It comes back to all those anecdotes. Oh well and you know I do I'm not meaning to get political but just in the general stories, you get of like that. Anecdote When I came to London, I only had two things, a dream and fifty million pounds. It comes back to that idea, right?

Like, oh, this nameless, Ultra billionaire, who owns. The one of the biggest companies in the world, you know, they started off on the Lower East Side, all they had was an endorsement from their dad and their dad's friend of 30 million dollars to go. Okay. Like, they live in such a skewed world and this old man and has to like it's of course, he recognizes it as fun because for him. It is fun. And there are no Stakes. No he's not gonna lose that

game. He is not going to die the players or the the crew would sooner reveal. The fact that he is not an average player than to let him die. Hmm. So there was no of course he had fun. There was no Stakes. Yeah of course. Typical playground rich people stuff. It's too much. Did you like that? And I think I liked it. I think that that That I like, first of all, I expected it. But I enjoyed this ending, you know? I did too. I did too. I like that.

It happened in the confines of I think what I like the most about it is that it happened in the confines of a very quiet room where it's only two of them. Like, it's a very interesting Placid exchange between two people and I think that's what really drove the point home. And they did that very well, what I found, interesting what, yeah, that's what I found

interesting. Is that the old man was so rich that he was placed in this This empty gigantic floor of a high-rise building with his hospital bed and his oxygen and a front row seat to death. I mean, it was still very morbid and luxurious and yeah amazing. It's so well done. It's so. So well done. Like he's just sitting up there kicking like oh, all right. Yeah, this floor is mine. Maybe the buildings is like, who knows? Who knows what was the tower called? It was a big company to.

Oh, I can't give us a telecommunications company and it's a real company in real life which I found interesting. But we haven't talked about one major, dude, and it was the suit, man, going. You going in with the subway Algona? That was like with a little card. Flipping game. Yes. So, I don't I've seen a few memes of this that I love like that.

I love. But the one that stands out is squid game, if it happened in the Bronx, and it's a woman sitting there with her, she's sitting there with him with a pair of Tim's, you know, the whole train platform is empty, she's sitting there with her, you know, her puffy jacket, whatever. It's just like and the the same woman comes over in a suit, very manicured, excuse me, stop. No, I'm good. I'm good. I saw this one. Can I talk to you? I said, get out of here. Do you want to play a game a

game? What do I look like saw? No, I need a car. I need a mysterious man. Yeah, that's excellent. The means and the spoofs are hysterical. But what would you do if that man approached you like, oh no, I would you like to play a game with me Wyatt know? Absolutely not, we're not doing this. He's a he's a model for Ralph Lauren right now. Well, God is doing great. People are simple after this man. Again, he's coffee prince Again, cast goblet.

Yeah. The cotton, the casting of gwangju I think, is part /, very sharp orderly manner, only kind of creepy. But disarming enough, where you can kind of look past, It if you're desperate enough. Yeah. Incredible. And this is a reunions with him and the director because he's the star of the movie, silenced. Yeah. In the director of this squid game wrote and directed that movie. So it's almost like a Scorsese type of thing happening. It's like a homecoming thing

working. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but he's a fantastic Cameo. He had a fantastic area, he did a great job with the parts. I love at least. Make very again at the end of the movie, that little wave that terrifying Little Wave. Like, you're never gonna see me again and even if you do, what are you gonna do? Like so you mentioned the red hair. I don't know what the hell is up with that?

I don't to me that's the equivalent of that Trope when a woman in a movie goes to like a traumatic event and then chops off all their hair and smears their lipstick and punches the mirror. I guess that's what they were going for I guess. But when he or I guess they were trying to go with, you know, fine. He's feeling at the end of his rope, he doesn't care about anything. Sure, give me the feminine.

Red hair cut, like, what the Marcille swoop and everything, whatever it doesn't work for me. It didn't work and I can fit the character Hilda. No, not at all, like maybe blue, maybe purple, maybe like shave the head, like all the way back or in. Yeah, I was thinking. Oh, maybe. He'll just be clean shaven with a Are here at the but no, he goes with. It's not even a stylish. Red eye looks like such a young haircut on such an old. It looks like Kpop friend.

It's, yeah, it's Kpop. Revlon, red. Just like boom. Like, and it didn't, I, I didn't like that because I could forgive so much about the end. I could forgive the reveal that it was his brother because it was a very big actor. Do you know the cop finds his oh the cop? Well yeah, the front I can forgive the obvious player. 0 0, 1 is in, on it, I can forgive that, I can forgive him adopting the kid and having a whole Keanu. Reeves, John Wick moment of

leaving the suitcase of cash. His, you know, his mother passed away. There's nothing left for him. In this town, I'm getting my bag and I'm leaving. I can deal with all of that, right? Find their cliches. To the wall. But the red hair pulls me out of all of that, like, I can't take

any of it seriously at all. And I resent that like, I still love the show, but it's spoiled those moments where it's like, oh my God. He's reuniting with the North Korean girls brother like, oh my God, he did right by her. But then, you know, looks pretty can't take that seriously because he looks like a clown. He looks like a McDonald's is just about Big fucking hat. It like, you know, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work for hey, he's like an about up up up his

way, back into the game. Yes. So we definitely are going to have a season 2. They, yeah, because he doesn't get on a plane to the u.s. to see his daughter. He decides, he's going to dismantle The Hunger Games from the inside. So we're going to have Catching Fire. I'm next season and we only winners in the in the Squid game. We're gonna play. Yeah, I want to do something cheap and bring back. Some of the Dead characters. I wait quit. I could see it could. No, see it.

I can see it. This is not there to reasons why they are not going to bring back the same. Are you sure like? Oh, they thought they burned me, but this cop is steeped in the nick of time and undid the furnace because the timeline matches up with that, right? He could have just gone back in and like Shut it. They it's a Korean drama people come back from bone marrow transplants. So they're gonna be fine.

Like I definitely think the only person that we're going to see come back from the dead is the cop. The phone calls coming from the bottom of the trench. It's gonna be as a phone call to Darth Vader. Is going to pick up the phone and Trace the call. It's coming from inside the room. Okay, I think we're done. Or do you have anything else you want to say about squid game? Um, I'm trying to say, I think I had a couple of stray observations.

Okay, one of them was it was something that really unsettled me. I wasn't the dog. Oh nothing. Oh well, yeah, something that I found interesting, were the characters cheated on some of the games and they just made it through like, ultimately, their fate caught up with them, but I'm convinced that, you know, No, they knew that they were cheating. Yeah, like there was no way that they're using a lighter and a needle, and all this other stuff. Like they knew we didn't talk about the whole.

It was that organ ring resealing. Yeah. That threw me off the organ harvesting thing. Like the I guess we can call the moderators or the game Runners were like running their own. Little side project selling organ to the Chinese. I don't, I mean, it's plausible but it was kind of such a red herring of a motive and it took up almost an entire episode because we thought oh they're being killed for this and its really much simpler than that it's like no this is literally

just a chance to win. It was for the cops storyline because they were like, oh there was a dude in here that only had one kidney Yeah, and it's like he was like other who was that that you killed and took their kidney so sauce. Yeah, that whole thing was really gross. There was a moment that I really loved and it was God. It was when guess against kept introducing, the other guys.

So he was the one who went to this University and he's the pride and joy of this town and this he basically went to Harvard, right? Yeah. So when he gets in a Indians face about like, oh, you know we need to we all had a chance and we all did this and we all did I and Ian responds? It's like that's really interesting. And you say all that and you say that you're the pride and joy of this town and you're well-read and educated but you're still in here with the rest of us.

Mmm-hmm. I found that exchange to be really powerful because he tells the first time he ever heard that in his life it's like yeah that all may be true but you're still here right? Why are you still here? Owe me? You got out. Yeah you're so much better than the rest of us and yet you know like it's I thought that was interesting. I thought the show just has so much to say and every time you like re watch an episode or if you like you're gonna catch something each time like I planned.

Re-watching, this really soon. Oh, yeah. But I, I just, I don't know. I really liked it. If it wasn't for the red hair, this show would be perfect. But I really enjoyed it, Fred here. Okay, I had one stray observation, and it was on the marbles gumbo episode that the alley set that they were on looked identical to the reply 1988 set. Where the entirety of reply 1988 takes place on like this Ally of? Yeah, we're all these bi characters, live and reply. 1988 is like a comfort drama for a

lot of people. It is so easy to watch and fun and heartwarming, right? So, even the players when they get out onto the alley set there, like I used to live on an ally. Like this insole and it was so much fun and we used to play and they were having the Reminiscing on their time as children living in this kind of neighborhood.

Yeah, and again it's turned on its on its head because they they start dying in the streets and the sky is like this horrifyingly a million shade like where it looks like. It looks like a thunderstorm just passed but the sun's going down like it's an ugly. Big red. Oh, what about this? Other chick, the, the girl was her name. She only she was really only in like two episodes. The one we took method. Yes. The girl that pairs off with the North Korean for the marbles. Yes.

Yes. Okay. Yes. That that girl is pretty chill. That was Rachel. The fact that she just like basically sacrificed herself that was very emotional for me. That was her and Ali In that episode basically wrecked me. Oh yeah. When they're like, what are you doing throughout Lake? The North Korean goes like, what are you doing? Throw the marble and she's like, you kept asking me? What am I going to do?

When I get out of here? And I've been thinking about that for the last 40 minutes and nothing comes to mind, got nothing to live for and the North Korean girl, gets like mad at her, just like really angry because it's like, no, you're basically making me kill you. She's like, that's it. The game is over. Like he won. It's like, no, no, no. Maybe they do make it for Jeju Island. I hope that they pull something

like this. Whole dying thing just wasn't working for me. Like, is he really a feel for the characters? You want them to live but I don't know how they're going to do it in the next one. Like cuz this cast was really good, like really good but I want to know who's running the games. Now that the old man is the Creator's. Dad, he's gone, right? Yeah. So He said come to the brain tumor. Wow! You think it was left to the 2015 event comes back. Do you think it was left to the

front man? I think so. Is he Charlie? Was he is. Oh my gosh. I was so right. The 2015 winner was Charlie and he inherited the Chocolate Factory. Xtq keep saying Willy Wonka and now in the next movie I want a lump has, like I wait, Korean Oompa-Loompa sequence. A Blank Range, just dragging

them away. Okay. That was, that was what I thought happened to the very spunky girl, like when they were, she's like, no, I need my partner, I need my heart, we should have known, she wasn't dead when we didn't hear a gunshot or something, but whatever, it's fine. Yeah, water under the bridge. All right. So, thank you so much for welcoming us going on this journey with me. Talking about squid game ago. This was so much fun, and I'm

glad we got it off our chests. I was looking Forward to this episode because I had so many thoughts that I had to get down and I didn't want to write them, I just wanted to talk. Yes, I'm racing with you. I had a great time. The show was amazing. Like I haven't talked about this with anybody yet, so yes. Thank you. Yeah, it was this was like a venting at. This is a very long episode but this was a venting process and I do want to thank all of our listeners for sticking with us

for this very long episode. And if you have Any thoughts whatsoever about squid game? Please reach out on social media were on Twitter and Instagram at ATC debauch pod if you send us something and it's directed toward Miguel, just let me know. And I'll make sure he sees it because he would be so happy to interact with you guys as well. I am sure, I'll be back if you have me. Yeah, of course, of course. We'll have you. You're like my original kdrama, buddy. Uh, of course.

I'll have you back. So yeah. Again, if this is your first time listening, thank you so much for listening. You can go ahead and subscribe on your favorite podcast app. We're on the Apple podcast Spotify, Google podcast, all of them. If you like us, give us a review on Apple podcast, that's the best thing you can do for us. In the next best thing that you can do is become a patron. That's the best way for you to get involved and show your support.

You can check out the page on patreon.com slash always critic pod. Alright, I think that's it. I think that's all we have for you. Are we doing the surgery bottle thing or oh my God? You're right. I totally forgot. I just hum again. Ascended, I'm gonna go to the bottom war soldier, but I would give it 4 as well. Are we gonna for that last one? I drank after Ali and the North Korean girl were taken away, so it's not even their fault. Yeah. Pour it out half of that.

Last one for them and then I threw the rest of it when I saw the red hair like, okay, okay, that has been our show. I am Jessica and this has been the Always know, always the critic presents, their Buck a Rambles podcast. Thanks, guys.