It's Okay to Not Be Okay / Ep. 86

I'm Jessica and this is the Teba Ki Rambo's podcast where a couple of friends review Korean dramas and we're back. We're back for another K drama review. We are going to be reviewing It's OK to Not Be OK. And for this episode, I am joined by Melissa and Noelise Way from the African Soulmates podcast. How are you guys? Hi, Jess. Thanks so much for having us. I feel like this this meeting has been years in the making. We're really excited to be here with you today. I am so thrilled.

Yeah, and we're viewing such a controversial but great drama, so really excited about this conversation. Yeah, I'm really thrilled to have you guys here. It's it's like you said, a long time coming. We've been really friendly on the socials for years. I've been a fan of you guys for years and been listening for years. And I know that you guys have covered It's OK to not be OK, but it's been about four years

since your episode came out. And even though I have listened, I don't sadly remember the episode. And in talking with you guys, it seems like you guys also are a little rusty on the details of what you guys said in that episode. So maybe this was a little bit needed to refresh all of our memories. If you guys can just tell the audience in case they don't listen to your podcast, maybe what you guys have been watching lately and what you guys have been enjoying.

Sure. Well, I've just been watching Undercover high school, I think it's called, and it's honestly, it's been, it's been such a trip because I took a bit of a hiatus from K dramas over the holidays because I just needed, I don't know, creative rest. And so it's been a fun way to sort of ease back into it. And yeah, rewatching it's OK to not be OK in preparation for this. So that was also a an interesting trip down memory lane for sure. Yeah, Mel.

I actually haven't been watching Korean dramas lately. I just watched It's OK Not to Be OK just to kind of remember what that was about. But I'm just really in my Chinese drama era to be. Girl. Well, what seed drama are you watching lately? I'm watching Ski into Love and the first snow because they're on Netflix, easy to watch. And I'm just like, I don't know, they're just a little bit lighter right now than what's

going on with K dramas. But I know that there's so many shows that are waiting for me like the potato, the Potato Lab and Undercover High School. And I'm just like and my list, when I'm ready to give get back into K drama, I'm going to get on top of that. Yeah, yeah. I'm also watching The First Frost on Netflix. I'm about halfway through and the podcast schedule has kind of overhauled my personal watching schedule and I'm really upset

that the show has ended. And now I'm kind of getting the edits and I'm getting the reactions from people and I'm like, no, I have to be pure. I have to be non spoiled on the show, even though it's what what plot was that? I mean, there's nothing really there to spoil, but I'm like, I don't want to see them together yet. I know that it's coming. So yeah, I am enjoying C dramas as well. I've been loving C dramas for

years. So we are going to get into it's OK to not be OK. And there is a lot to unpack on this show. So bear with us as we kind of weave our way through this. And we will be talking a little bit about the the Kim SU Kyon scandal that literally just broke this week. So I don't think that, I guess it goes without saying that we are trying to be as diplomatic as possible in our approach to this. So as we come to that part of the show, again, bear that in

mind. Korea has really strict defamation laws, the most strictest in the world. So as this thing is developing, we're not going to say that that much, but we are available in the social medias for you guys to DM us to message us and talk at length about this stuff. OK, so without further ado, here's some housekeeping. If this is your first time listening, go ahead and subscribe on your favorite podcast app or on Apple Podcast, Spotify, Google Podcast, and many more.

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All right, so I'm going to go ahead and read the My Drama List synopsis for It's OK to Not Be OK, and we're going to get into it. We're going to get into it, so here we go. Moon Kante is a community health worker at a psychiatric ward who was blessed with everything, including a great body, smarts, ability to sympathize with others, patient's ability to react quickly, stamina, and

more. Meanwhile, Komunyong is a popular writer of children's lit who, due to suffering from any social personality disorder, seems extremely selfish, arrogant, and rude. Moon Kangte denies love and Komunyong doesn't know it. The two defy fate and fall in love, finding their souls and identities in the process. So, this show aired in June to August 2020. For those keeping track at home, that is pure pandemic. That is the summer of pandemic and it is 16 episodes long.

It is directed by Pakshinu and he's directed things like the Killing Vote, Love Struck in the City encounter, Don't Dare to Dream, Hide, Jackal, Me, Angel Eyes, Queen of Ambition, and most recently, of course, when the stars gossip from 2025, he also has another drama coming out, Miji's Soul. This also coming out this year. Have you guys experienced some Pakshinu dramas before? No, actually I haven't.

I was listening to to your list and I'm like, I tried to watch this new Lehman Ho one that struggled when it came up. Yeah, it was, I don't know, it was a bit slow for me. So I'm actually quite shocked because yeah, I don't know if he has sort of like a theme through his dramas, but they all seem quite, quite different. No Lee's way. I haven't watched any of these, but I know I did try Lovestruck

in the city. But a lot of our listeners, a lot of the African soul mates, I mean, it was people had such mixed opinions about it and so I was like, you know what, this one can wait. It's still on my list, but who knows what I will eventually get to it. Yeah, I've watched a few of these. Angel Eyes in 2014 I believe, was about this blind girl and she fell in love with a a boy and then it was like a second chance romance. But now her she had like an eye transplant or something like that.

And now she can see, but she doesn't recognize the boy that she fell in love with because now she can see. It was so little. I don't think I finished watching it, you know. And then I've heard of Encounter, heard of Lovestruck in the city. Very mixed bag on those two. And then when the stars gossip has been universally panned this year. Yeah, yeah. Not a. Not a, not a one. 100 Good luck. Track record for this director,

but yeah. So the show though was written by Toe Young and she has only written three things. Two of those things are Jugglers from 20/17/2018 and Mr. Plankton from last year, 2024. And as soon as I saw Mr. Plankton, I was like, oh, that makes a lot of sense. Yes, yeah. Yes, yeah. I loved Mr. Plankton. I love Mr. Plankton. And so it totally makes sense to me that it's the same writer because yes, right. Support. Mel, you also watched Mr. Plankton.

Yeah, sorry. I love Mr. Plankton and you know, like these deep male characters that are just going through emotional turmoil. Seems to be her bag. And she's I, I and you know, Mr. Plankton came, was it in Christmas or like November at a time when it was also a little bit dry and it was such a good show for that period of time. So yeah, no, she is great. Obviously quality, not quantity, going for her. Yeah, exactly.

I haven't watched Strugglers, but I did watch Mr. Plankton from last year, and I thought it was really, really smart. I've really enjoyed it. It was very nuanced and had a lot of depth to it. And there was something about it where it was asking a lot of questions but not providing too many answers. It was trying to let the audience come to these conclusions themselves, right?

It's trying to like pose these questions for the audience, even though you can tell the writer has a point of view, right? I just think she's very smart in the that approach and she seems to do some research and I like it. I think it's, it's kind of AI don't know how she makes a living if she's only doing 3 dramas, like done 3 dramas and you know, the last 10 years. But I appreciate the last two of them if that makes any sense, and the show.

So the cast, I'm going to read 3 cast members and I'm going to go basically in backwards order if that makes any sense and leave Kim SU Kyun for last. OU Cheng SE, he plays Moon Sante and he's got like 55 movies and 37 dramas to his name. He is a veteran actor. He is the get of this show. When they announced his casting for our Moon Sante, that was the that was the big deal, right? He's been in things like, I mean, there's so many things you throw a rock.

He's been in this in the show I miss You from 2013, Missing 9, which was not a great shit. That was one of the worst shows I've ever seen. Touch Your Heart from 2019 When the Cameelia Blooms from 2019, which we've covered on the show.

There's an episode on it, Hot Stove League, which we will be covering on the show this season, The Good Detective, GD Son, Little Women, which we've covered, Revenant, which we've covered, Sweet Home 2, Deaths Game, which I reviewed over on TN Soju podcast, So many Queen of Tears. He had a cameo in it. He's Sweet Home 3, Mr. Plankton. So he worked with the writer again. He was also in When the Stars Gossip earlier this year. So he's worked with the director again.

You can see he has he likes working with these people, so he's worked with them again. And he should be on your screens right now and When Life Gives You Tangerines, which is currently airing for us at the time of recording on Netflix. So oh Jiang SE, what do you guys think of this guy? Personally, he stays paid. I always have a job and I love it for him, I really do. And I've just seen like his range. He has such range.

I remember when I noticed I watch Touch Your Heart and then watch It's OK to not be OK. And then later we reviewed Touch Your Heart and we went back and I was like, normally this is like the same actor. How is he the same? He is? He is so good. I have never watched him in a drama where I felt like I I didn't appreciate his contribution to the show. So I'm a I'm a, I'm a big fan of his. Yeah, yeah. I would echo that. I think he is such a versatile actor.

And I mean, clearly, you know, has done so many dramas and movies in his career. I'm just curious, has he played a lead in in any of these or is he? I feel like he always has an important character, but again, not knowing a lot of these movies, has he been, you know, the leading, the leading character, like the male lead? To your knowledge I don't recall like any of the ones that I've said. He was not the male lead, but he is a Co lead, if that makes any sense.

Yeah, which Co lead supporting these are sort of interchangeable, at least in the West, especially for award season, because there's always category fraud in awards where you put a Co lead, someone who has a lot of screen times, who's carrying a lot of weight in a sporting category with somebody who's like in there for 7 minutes.

He does a lot like he's he, we'll do a cameo role, he'll do a bit part and then he'll do something where he's in every single episode and he's alongside younger, very popular actors like this show. I think that he's well regarded in the industry and his name holds a lot of weight to the Korean audience and I'm not sure if they're if he has LED maybe in movies although. Maybe. I also can't say for sure, but. I mean, in any case, yeah, in

any case, right. Like whether it's 2 minutes or every single episode, he really just comes with that gravitas and leaves an impression. So exactly that's off to him. Yeah, so he plays off of Soyaji who was the female lead. She plays Ko Munyong and she's got 8 movies to her name and a few TV shows like Mood in School from 2016, Huadong where she plays Princess SU Myung, Save Me from 2017, Lawless Lawyer and Eve from 2022. What do you guys think of Soyaji? That's my girl.

That's your girl. That's my girl. I love Soyaji. And I mean, I say this as someone who's only watched her in Eve and it's OK to not be OK, but I think, I don't know, she just, whatever stoic kind of character she plays, she does it so well. She she just has a presence when she comes on screen. And I think she acts a lot with her face in a way that not a lot of, well, not a lot, but like, I don't see a lot of people doing

really well. You know, she can just come and she's super icy, but there's like there are layers, there's some depth there that she can convey. And yeah. And I mean fashionista. Yeah, yes, fashionista. Yeah. The wardrobe in this show is famous, and for good reason. It is really unique, It's colorful, it's vibrant and it looks amazing on her. She's the the clothes they put on her are stunning. It looks couture and I think this show is stands out among the K dramas because it is so

her wardrobe is so whimsical. It looks like runway fashion, right? And it totally informs her character. Soyaji is not without scandal, as we may or may not know. A few years ago, she was accused of forcing her ex-boyfriend Jung Hyun into not having any physical interaction with his Co star in the 2018 drama Time. I don't know if you guys had heard of this weird drama. She was like semi cancelled for this. It was like really bizarre. I I mean, yeah, you're like

shaking your head. And then there's just been rumors circulating that she's difficult to work with and that she's mean to the staff. And I don't, I don't, I don't really put stock in such things, especially like mean to the staff and like stuff like that, like that's. Yeah, yeah. It's giving Meghan Markle. I was just like, we don't really like. Meghan Markle. The most?

Controversial like royal OK. In terms of like she's mean to the stuff, she's a hard worker or she's like she's really domineering and it's like, I don't know. I, I feel like some of the controversies are why are we all up in this business? Honestly, just just focus on the actress and what they bringing to the dramas. Obviously stuff that is terrible that people need to know about and people need to be accountable, but nothing about the Soya G drama put me off her as an actress.

And I agree with Nodi, I think she's a really good actress. She's one of the few that I feel takes takes me to a deeper level in the way that she represents the character. She has a lot of depth in her acting so I'm really glad that she's now without Scandal, but I know some listeners may have thought she's she deserved the cancelling but I personally I'm happy to see her back. Lily's way. I mean, I was just going to say women in general are held to a

much higher standard. And someone could just be an assertive person who sets very clear boundaries and calls out BS, you know, very freely, very easily. And that can be taken and spun into some narrative about, oh, she's so difficult to work with. Oh, she's mean, She's this. And I'm like, you know what? OK, we all have our opinions about that, but is it worth canceling someone over? Again, these are people. I don't know these people from a slice of bread. So yes, it could be that she

really is like that. But when everyone is getting so worked up, you know, like you're whipping people up into a frenzy over rumors of how she behaved on set. I'm just kind of like, we take it with a grain of salt. Exactly, exactly. I couldn't have said it better. She really blew me away and saved me, which is an OCN drama from 2017 about her family getting sucked into a cult. And that was a very triggering drama for me. And I came out on the other side thinking she's phenomenal.

And I don't recommend that drama lightly it you have to go into it knowing that it's very disturbing. So it's an ocean drama that should tell you a lot. But the scandal with her doesn't feel to me that I wouldn't call that a scandal. You know what I'm saying? I'm just like, OK, some text messages got out and it looks a little. But to semi blacklisted, like she doesn't have that many shows. Yeah, right. Like if you look at her for omography, I'm like, she's not been working that often.

Yeah. I'm just going to leave that out there. So we're finally at Kim SU Hyun. He plays Moon Kante, the male lead, and he's done 4 movies, a few TV shows including Dream High from 2011, The Moon, Embracing the Sun, My Love from the Star, the Producers, One Ordinary Day, Queen of Tears from last year, which did gangbusters. Everybody and their mom was watching Queen of Tears. It was the number one show

everywhere. We have reviews on Dream High, My Love from the Star, and of course he did a cameo in Crash Landing on Youth. And of course there is an episode on on Chloe Kim SU Hyun. We have a taker for what's aged the worst about this show. We have to as quickly and as definitely as we can, unpack the scandal. So when I resolved to cover it's OK to not be OK, and I tapped you guys to guess on this, I had no earthly idea that all this would surface. I see you guys kind of like

chuckling. Here's what went down, Kim said on is a child actor who is most famous for being in the amazing movie The Man from Nowhere with Moenbin. She'd grown up into a young woman and was booking acting gigs like the K drama Bloodhounds before she got busted for a DUI. She hit an electricity pole and knocked out power to a bunch of buildings.

She lost everything because of this scandal, dropped from projects and endorsements, even though she apologized profusely, paid the fines and compensated the stores that were damaged due to the malicious online harassment, including these Youtubers, these cyber Lucas who make their money off of false information and salacious gossip. She sadly committed suicide earlier this year. February 2025. Now the emerging story has Kim

Sukhyon at the center of this. There were already dating rumors between Kim Seron and Kim SU Hyun stemming from her posting this intimate photo of them to her Instagram last year. While Queen of Tears was airing, their faces were touching side by side. The Korean netizens went wild. They were angry with her because how dare she try to take him down with her because she was still in the midst of her

cancellation. But now, according to The Korea Times, this controversy reignited when YouTube channel Hover Lab, better known as Carocedo Institute, featured Kim Seron's aunt who claimed the actress had a six year relationship with Kim SU Hyun starting at age 15, and accused his agency of financial misconduct and lack of support

after her 2022 DUI scandal. The allegations, especially about the underage relationship, have sparked intense scrutiny, with resurfaced photos and videos adding to the debate pause. There are now many photos circulating of Kim SU Hyon kissing Kim Saton on the cheek. There's a screenshot of a text message Kim Saton sent to her cousin fully detailing the six year relationship.

There's a screenshot of a text message Kim Saton sent to Kim Saton about paying back the penalties from the drama Bloodhounds in the amount of like 700 million, one of which is about $500,000 because his agency allegedly demanded she pay it all back. They sent her a legal notice threatening her with escalating legal action and she could not pay this back in a lump sum immediately as she was

struggling financially. One video is of him doing an interview alongside actress Kim Yu Jong, who is also 12 years younger than him, where he says she's matured and maybe he'll meet her as a partner one day. And another video is of a 2013 interview he did where he says when he's 41 he wants to marry a 21 year old, which is gross. It gives credence to him maybe seeking out a younger girl, perhaps 112 years his junior and only 15. Just mounting evidence.

Some of it just circumstantial like the ones that I've mentioned. Back to the Times article. Public interest grew not just from the YouTube channel, but from the family's involvement, lending credibility to the claims. Gold medallist firmly deny the accusations, calling them clearly fabricated and wholly unacceptable, and vowed strong legal action against the malicious falsehoods. Then dispatch entered the chat with receipts confirming the six year relationship and more.

We were originally going to get a follow up statement in a week from gold medalist, that's Kim SU Hyun's agency, the one he himself started with his cousin. But we ended up getting one just a couple of days ago. Kim SU Hyun is now admitting to having a relationship with Kim Seton, but he says it was from summer 2019 to fall 2020 when she was firmly legal an adult. They're saying Kim SU Hyun is suffering mentally due to the accusation that he's to blame for her suicide.

And the list goes on for refuting the evidence and claims based on various technicalities. Here's what we know for sure. Korean Youtubers are notorious for telling lies and spreading malicious gossip. The media can be bought. Dispatch can be silenced. Fans are generally more forgiving and biased toward handsome male celebrities and female celebrities, often defending problematic individuals. Kim Sodon committed suicide on

Kim SU Hyun's birthday. Kim SU Hyun did not attend her funeral despite her being signed to his agency. They did 100% date and they do 100% have a 12 year age gap. If they dated when he says they dated that would make him 31 and her 19. Here's what I know personally. The whole thing stinks to high heaven.

And whether or not any charges have been filed, whether or not anyone has been found guilty in a civil or criminal case, Kim SU Kyong has been deemed guilty in the court of public opinion and that's the only one that counts nowadays. One party, the presumed victim, cannot speak for herself anymore. I'm not here to sensationalize what is and has already been sensationalized and what is already a tragedy. To me, the worst has already happened, Kim said on took her own life.

So whatever outrage you feel, whatever happens now, she won't receive help. Justice is going to come too late. Lots of people spoke to me in my DMS. There was a lot of confusion, a lot of anger. And I understand. This is a beloved actor, someone we've all allowed into our homes and lives through the magic of television. This is someone we've all fallen head over heels for and some drama or another. It feels like Kim SU Hyun has

betrayed the public's trust. We're upset that he not only did something morally wrong, it's that he allegedly is a paedophile. He's a predator, he groomed a child. It's abhorrent. It's echoing really sad stories that we've heard before and this list is non exhaustive. So we've got R Kelly and Aaliyah, Beyoncé and Jay-Z, Demi Lovato and Wilmer Valderrama, Kylie Jenner and Tyga Steven Tyler of Aerosmith, who openly admitted in his memoir to having sex with a 16 year old.

He was 26 at the time, and her parents apparently fell in love with him and signed over guardianship to him so he could take her on tour. His band has a themed ride at Disney World. Aaron Taylor Johnson and his now wife who have a 24 year age gap. Milo Ventimiglia and Hayden Panettiere. They announced they were dating when she was barely 18 and he was 29. Johnny Depp and Winona Ryder. He described it as love, his first sight. She was 17 and he was 26.

Joel Madden and Hillary frickin Duff. She was 16 and he was in his mid 20s. Paul Walker at the time of his death he was dating a 23 year old. They had met and started dating when she was 16. My least favorite one Céline Dion because I love Celine Céline Dion and her freaking old bag of a manager, Renee. He was 38, married when he met 12 year old Celine and they she was the other woman. They didn't start dating quotation marks until she was 19. This isn't to normalize this

behavior. This is to say that our society today is a lot louder about calling out this shit nowadays than it has ever been. And a lot of victims in these cases will often swear up and down that they're not victims. They were not groomed. It's always been and always will be morally repugnant, but here's what I want to leave you with. I want to encourage everyone to really wrestle with how you view celebrities, actors, K pop idols, whoever.

Because if you see them on your screen in any capacity, they're working. Those variety shows that are you believe it. They're so good at letting you see their true personality. They're working. It's a job. Nobody, and I mean nobody, is perfect. And yes, the Korean moral perfection standard for their celebrities is wrong. It can never be achieved. But hear me on this.

I guarantee you that every single celebrity has done something, has said something, even believed something that would effectively end their career if it got out. We tend to think other people live similar lives to us. This is not true. The sooner you believe everyone, even your favorite actor, is a freak behind closed doors, the better you will be to weather these inevitable scandals. You'll be disappointed, but not surprised.

Here's something else I know. Art in any form, whether it's films, television, music, books, drawing, painting, all of it is important. It gives us comfort in times of need. It helps us make meaning of our lives, teaches us new things, brightens our days. It entertains us. And a great show or a great performance will always be great. Two things can be true at the same time. A problematic individual can make the most moving art.

How you view these stories and characters going forward is up to you. If you like them, still great. If you need some time away, that's fine. That's fine too. If you want to boycott because you feel disgusted, fine. Now I saw a ton of people chewing up commenters on TikTok who we're talking about. Separate the art from the artist. Do not fucking do that. That's childish to insult and bully someone for wanting to compartmentalize.

So please stop with this virtue signaling and moral superiority. In this episode, we will try to unpack and review this show from as unbiased a perspective we can muster, and this sort of feels like reviewing The Cosby Show the week the Bill Cosby scandal hit. This is a little difficult, but we're going to do our best. My question to you guys is, do you feel the legacy of the show has been tainted?

Thank you for, you know, just for, for sharing a bit of a recap of what's been going on. And just, you know, obviously, as you said, this is a it's delicate and controversial. It's unfolding as we speak. And so just to echo something you said at the beginning of the show, I am happy to tussle with anyone in our DMS to really get into it. And I will say something that I always grapple with is how to separate the art from the artist.

And I think for me, it may be too soon to say if the legacy of the show has been tainted. I think I personally did pause, as you know, as I mentioned, I was, I started re watching so I could come here. You know, I was excited as you said, who who would have known this would happen? And I really paused because I was like, I can't, I'm just having in the in the last week or so. I was just like, I don't know. I don't know that I can watch this and fully give it the I don't know.

Yeah, my, I had a distorted kind of experience for the remaining episodes that I still had to watch. But then Mama didn't raise no quitter. I was like, I'm trying to show up to Jess's podcast because, again, we've been wanting to come and connect with you over a show like this. And so it's like, OK, can I, for the purposes of this episode, do that? I think there's a lot that can be said about the the characters, which is what I would love to focus on.

And we'll do our best. I think it's too soon to say whether or not the the legacy of the show will be tainted. But I can say that when I first watched it, that experience was it was a very pure experience, Right. And now it's it's different. But I am trying to keep an open mind for for our review here. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, something, just something you said that I wanted to double click on was just about, you know, we don't know these people. We don't have personal relationships.

And I think something I always joke about with with Mel and some other friends is sometimes when I am excited about an artist, I'm like, you know what? Stay embarrassed. You'll find out why later. You know what I mean? Because literally anything can happen. And it's like, you know what? Fair. Yeah, not fair, but they're human. Things happen, and you just deal with your disappointment. And. Yeah. And move on. Like, I don't know how to say it. Like it sucks, let's move on.

Yeah, and I cannot underline Double Click Echo enough that the age of glorifying and idolizing celebrities is gone. Like that was when we were in our early teens and we had our posters of Backstreet Boys, and we only got that. We only got to know about them in our monthly People magazine subscription. But now with all the technology that exists and everything that comes out about celebrities, that is actually normal. People are great, people are gross sometimes. Like then.

Now we just have access to that information just at our fingertips. Every day You go on Twitter and you find out that your fave is actually really terrible. And for me, I would just encourage us to have a healthy relationship with celebrity and make sure that we are aware that they are portraying characters. They are portraying a certain lifestyle that should appeal to us, but that is not necessarily

what's real. And I think when these sort of scandals come out, it's you don't get sucked into this and, you know, think your world has fallen apart because they are just, they are just humans. And, you know, they will be accountable to who they are accountable to. But yeah. And whether that has changed the way the legacy of it's OK to not be OK for me personally, it has. The way I viewed it after this information came out is a bit different than what I did the first time.

I think I, I was a little more unfortunately, like, oh, I'm so sad. I'm so disappointed by this actor, but not in a way that would make me cancel it or not watch it or not recommend it or just be, you know, writing in the blogs about it. It's just like, oh, this is what I know about this. This actor is not great.

Moving on. Like the key headline is moving on and just hoping that the powers that be in the circle of celebrity deal with it. But it's not for me to be sending out any hate tweets or, you know, being all caught up about it. Sorry that was all jumbled up, but I hope the message came out that let's stop glorifying celebrities honestly. Yep, I agree. I agree completely. The next question that I have is

how did you like this show? And I don't know if you want to split it up between before Scandal and after Scandal or if you just want to kind of give your overall like, is it a good show to you or not? I really I think I enjoyed this show because it had so many themes that felt when I first watched it. This was one of my earlier dramas. I'm so new, relatively new when I think about you both. I'm relatively new to K dramas and I think when I watched it, I was the themes of family

healing, Oh my gosh. And you know just the cast. There's so many things. I think I really, I appreciate it, appreciate it so much about this drama and how there are some really light moments coupled with obviously the heavier parts where it's like these people are walking bags of trauma and we need to get to a point where we understand what's going on. And, you know, yeah, just sort of how are they navigating through life while carrying so much baggage, if that makes sense.

So I think. Just overall, I think it's it's such a powerful, I experienced it as a really powerful story about family relationships, trauma, healing and yeah. Yeah, yeah, no. I I think that it's such a great drama. When I watched it, I truly enjoyed it and I think retrospectively it feels like such a good drama because they've been few that have left an impact after. It's OK to not be OK.

Like very few dramas from that time period that I look back and I really can remember most of the story, can remember the characters and it just had so many levels of depth to it. And I, I particularly remember feeling like Soyaji's character Munyang was a little bit different to what we were used to. She was, she almost portrayed the male stereotype of what K dramas represent. She was the one who was cold. She was the one who seemed like she was not emotionally available.

And I remember that being that dynamic being very interesting to me and just how the three of them had great chemistry together. Yeah, I enjoyed the drama very much. Yeah, for me, I also really enjoyed the drama and I actually have a time capsule blog review up on the blog that I revisited a couple couple weeks ago. I like reread it and I was like, Oh my God, like this is perfect because I know exactly what I thought.

And I actually at the beginning was like kind of trying to downplay how much I loved it. And then I was like, anyway, I really love the show. Sorry about it. Like, and I think I ended up giving it like 4 stars out of five. What really resonated with me was a lot of the novelty of it, right? There's a lot of cool puzzle pieces, a lot of novelty puzzle pieces. There's the humor and lightness and openness throughout the show that's really reminiscent of

just like a typical K drama. And then there's a lot of whimsical and fairy tale in it. And the aesthetics are very gothic. It's almost like gothic light. And if you've never seen any Tim Burton or Guillermo del Toro, then the stop motion animation style in the premiere episode is going to really wow you. And these types of elements, her wardrobe, all of these things are really novel. These are new, right? You might not have seen these in

other K dramas. And the really big emphasis throughout the show on mental health, healing and working through mental illness is a big step in the right direction for Korean society and for K dramas. It's not quite was not quite as prevalent five years ago in K dramas.

There had been some K dramas that dealt with mental health and mental illness, but not like we see today like every other K drama might have something to do with somebody struggling and they'll put a lot of jargon in there that is psychoanalyzing these characters in some way, shape or fashion. Mental health jargon is really big nowadays, more so than even five years ago when this thing aired. And so even I, I just said stuff like triggering, like

triggering. We're we're saying that now, but that's therapy. Language is really normalized now. And K dramas like this are kind of breaking new ground in Korea. And the portrayal of an autistic character like old Jung Sei's character Sante was amazing, right? Like you've not seen something like that in AK drama. You might have seen it every so often, but you know, now you have extraordinary Attorney Wu. You have the the kid from Moved to Heaven.

You have a lot of different representation now than you had before, even even before this show. So you have a veteran actor, Ojiang SE, playing this brother, older brother Ahyung, who's got ASD. He's got autism. It comes out during the pandemic, maybe people being confined, being away from family, isolated, confronting their mortality in ways we'd

never reckon with before. I feel like it made the sentimental parts of the show really hit right, because the sentimentality of cage dramas is something very unique to it. We don't have such sentimental shows in the West, right? Everything is kind of at arm's length.

Yeah, just just as you said that I remembered how when we watched this and reviewed it, there's, I remember talking about how after every episode we would just sort of be in each other's DMS just trying to like just unpacking everything. And one of the things that we talked about was how, you know, it was really because we were watching it with our third podcast member, Nomsa. I think we were watching it. We might have watched it after meal. I can't tell. I can't remember.

But we were watching it together. And so there was just that this drama, really, it just brought us together. And it's like we're on this journey together with these characters. And yeah, I I was living in another country, you know, isolating by myself. And so really, K dramas were such a. Unifying. Yeah, yeah. I was just like, Oh my, like this makes me feel connected to other people. That's when I started watching K dramas.

And so, yeah, it's, it feels really special because of that, that sentimentality that you are that you are talking about. Yeah, yeah. I had someone message me and say, you know, good luck on the episode because of everything going on. And I'm just pissed off because it's OK to not be OK. It's such an important drama for autistic representation. It's the best autistic character I've seen, which reflects my own experience of it.

And it's so annoying to me that because of Kim, meaning Kim SU Hyun, it'll get cancelled as a drama. And I wondered how you guys felt about the autistic representation And Ochung says performance. I thought that it was a great representation, but I remember when we were recording this episode as well as it like slowly comes back to me, we also struggled just the same way we struggled struggled with Extraordinary Attorney Wu

around. It was great and it felt like it was really good representation, but we're not autistic and it would be. We were always saying it would be great to hear what the autistic community thinks about that representation and if they felt that it was genuine and it was true and if it was something that they could get behind as just objectively speaking, it felt like he did a really good job of that. But I would never confidently be

the the opinion holder of that. Yeah, that's definitely where we landed. But sorry, just to veer us off a little bit back to the unifying nature of it's OK to not be OK. I also thought that every element of the show was so intentional from the soundtrack, which was so good. That was tea is unassailable. It's amazing. So good. And also the fairy tales.

I remember trying to buy those fairy tale books and how they was so well weaved into the stories of the three main characters and it really felt like the writers was so intentional about everything that they were representing in every single episode. I also loved that there was the overarching story of the the three leads, but almost every other episode there was also like a smaller story about a mental health patients and, and what they were going through.

And that never took away from the broader story. It always added and you always you had these guest stars come and be the patients and and it was also interesting going into that and talking about those specific characters, like the one that stands out the most was the son of the politician who kept an. Early episode, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, who kept on flashing people and just how his story was so sad as it unraveled and how Munyang responded to his story. First you're like, oh, she's

cold and she's manipulative. And then you kind of realize that she relates to him and she wants to help him, even though she may not be, you know, representing that in the best way. I really, I really love those stories. So I really digress from your question. Yes, but just really.

No it's fine. I'm actually going to recenter us now because I'm looking through the questions that I got from social media and someone asked a really interesting question that I'm not even sure how to answer. Someone asked. This might be a hot take, but I'd love to get your opinion on whether or not it's time for K dramas to take a big step toward disability inclusion on screen. O Jiang SE was fantastic as Moon Sante, and we saw a great performance in Extraordinary Attorney Wu as well.

But could it be time for Korea to work on their inclusion efforts with actors of various abilities? Slash disabilities? Question Mark. Yes, yes, yes. And I think this is this is actually, this was part of our discussion in our review in 2021 where we said, you know, great that. And sometimes part of the evolution or movement towards true representation could start with a really well respected actor doing a really great job of that.

And then we say, OK, but let's actually look at people who actually have these lived experiences and have them play these these characters because then then the acting is just about it's, it's about the acting, but I'm not also acting out the disability or whatever the case may be. So yeah, definitely. I totally understand. I understand where you're coming from in the West.

It's, and I said this on the Extraordinary Attorney Wu episode that we did, it's fallen out of fashion for Hollywood stars to play people with disabilities. You had so many people coming up and getting awards for playing someone with a disability. You had like Leonardo DiCaprio and What's eating Gilbert Grape. You had Sean Penn and I am Sam, Tom Hanks and Forrest Gump. The list goes on. And then all of a sudden, like in the late 90s, early 2000s, we

were like, you know what? Maybe this isn't a good idea and we kind of woke up to it not being such a great idea. Maybe it's kind of playing a caricature, a real life disability and struggle, and you're not including these people in the work, right? I would say Korea is going to be really slow on this. Personally, I think this is a very conservative society, as we well know, and they quite

appreciate beautiful people. And not to say that the West doesn't, that Hollywood doesn't, but, you know, I was surprised they even had an actress with Downs playing the sister with Down syndrome in our Blues. And I was like, that's amazing. I was like floored that they even had that. So, but to have them cast someone with ASD in a drama, which is very demanding, if you think of the demands, memorizing lines, Start, Stop when I tell you that's very taxing.

You know, on someone with autism. I think it's gonna be very difficult for Korea to be like, yeah, let's do it, let alone other disabilities. Yeah, when I think about K dramas, I think a lot about the CWI don't know if you guys watched a lot of The CW shows, but I always used to be like. Girl, you're talking to the right person. If you are not, you know, the stereotypical standard of beauty, you will not be hired on The CW. And that's how I feel about

Korean dramas. And it also, I thought about that as well when referencing only when you're saying, oh, John, say, has he ever been a male lead? Maybe because he doesn't really fit into that Kim Soo Hoon type of beauty that I don't know the TV show producers think the

audiences want to see. And connecting that back to disabilities and to what Jess was saying is that there's just a love for beauty that if you don't fit into that, and I say beauty in exclamation marks because we all know that it is quotation mark because we all know that beauty is defined differently. But I definitely think agree, just that it might. It might take a while, but I hope it doesn't. I hope they surprise us.

We talked about Soyaji's character and people had a lot to say and things that I hadn't even thought of. I don't know if you guys want to guess at what people were upset about her character about or if you just want me to read the comments. What that she was a go getter, she said. That's my man, my man, my man, or. That she was harassing him. Yes, that's exactly it. So that she was sexually harassing him for about half the show.

Someone DM Ed me and said if her character was a male lead, feminists of the world would be outraged. But she somehow seems to be revered and loved. And again, flawed characters are fine as long as the redemption arc is good. But I didn't have the patience for it and a lot of her behaviors put me off. This person dropped the show. Another person said that they loved the female lead. She's a bit of an anti hero. She's very unapologetically extra and direct.

I like that. I like soft female leads, but I love strong female leads. I think she has a lot of character development. It does not take from her being very morally Gray, but I think her being jealous is very on brand with how Korea usually portrays toxic women. At the end of the day, I just like her because she could not care less about anyone else but them. Even in the beginning when she grabs by the hair of the guy who yells at the brother, it's very right even though not in the

right way. I think when we understand how she was raised, we can understand why she is how she is and still a good person even though a bit inside. So anyway, Long story short, people were screaming sexual harassment, calling sexual harassment on Soya G's Moon Young. What say you to those accusations? Yes, and how many male leads

have we seen do this? Like I I think the second comment you read probably captures or reflects more of my stance on so AGI think she is. She is a complex character. She's problematic in many ways, but also I'm like, yeah, we're used to. We're not used to seeing like, I don't know how. To I I triggered you, I didn't I. I'm triggered and you know what? I support all women's rights and wrongs.

And so yes, I hear all this. But again, I think she's especially at that time for me, it was like, OK, this is a different kind of the female character that we're seeing on screen. She's so problematic in so many ways, but she's also she's she's multi dimensional. There's so many layers to it. Yes, we can talk about how she's out here grabbing people's hair or you know, she's undressing Gante with her eyes or whatever, all those things.

Yes, yes, yes. And I think it's a yes and for me. OK. I mean, I did find her a bit annoying, but not for the sexual harassment accusations. I was like, oh, OK. Yeah, I I I didn't, I thought she was a great character. Would she be my friend? I don't know. You know, I am, I am one of those people that, you know, when you say someone is really great on the inside, well, they can be great on the outside too. Oh, so that's that's how I felt. What's holding them back from being great on the?

Outside, Yeah. What's holding them back from being kind and, you know, nice on the outside? Like why do I have to dig deep? You know what? I feel that. I feel that. As a character, I thought that she was great, just a little bit annoying. The sexual harassment claims, I do think she took it far, but I think that was all part of the character. Also similar to what that second statement said, that she's a flawed character that you know,

finds redemption in the end. And I don't know if I can articulate this well, but I always find it, it's difficult when the critique on the show is that this character shouldn't be doing this sort of thing. But then it's a representation of what characters or people are like in real life. And this is, you're supposed to critique that, right?

But I know some shows are cancelled because they, like, we shouldn't be seeing that on TV. But if that's something that happens in real life in some of these instances, we should be able to critique that and not necessarily say we shouldn't see it at all. And I thought that this was I, I, I don't know if you guys understand. What kind of like PC police? Yeah, this was just a different representation of of a female character.

And I know when I read some of the controversies around that, they're like, they should cancel the show. Like she's sexually harassing him. And I was like, no, let's talk about how this character is a little bit messed up. Rather than this cancel, it's cancelled. Right, right. Let's open a dialogue here. And I think that's what the show and the writer wanted, right? That's what they wanted to say.

They wanted to show us the growth and the healing journey for not just her, but every character, right? Because no character ends the same way that they started the show. That's a sign of great writing, right? Yeah, Like, these are things that you would expect MU Yong to do, right? Like, her character has been written to be this problematic person. Like, and again, life has handed her all types of lemons. And so it's like, OK, here's how she shows up. Here's how she protects herself

and whatever, right? We can dig into her psyche. And it's like, as you both have said, this is what is leading. This is what is setting us up for that character development. So plus one TU vote. Yeah, she's Moon Young is severe, she's insulting, she's intimidating, but she's so fashionable. She's covered in couture and she's a creature of impulse, but she's also just very lovable.

Like I said, she's out here yanking hair off of people who stood in line for her own book signing, but she's making kids cry. She's pushing unethical critics down the stairs for demeaning her, exploiting her for sex. She's pulling the wings off of butterflies and flashbacks. She's bellowing back at deer that block her car. She is doing a lot of weird, funky, funny things. And she's going about doing sort of like, a lot of like, righteous indignation in the wrong way.

You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, that guy's a Dick. Actually, these several guys are douchebags and she's handling it, but in the wrong way, You know what I'm saying? Like her methods, she can be prosecuted for these things.

Probably not the best, cleanest method to handle this, but you know, I'm not necessarily mad at her for doing it right, for pushing someone down the stairs and for pulling, yanking someone's hair back when they physically assaulted Sante, for having a, you know, sort of an episode, an autistic episode in the line of her book signings. So Mel, you mentioned the fairy tales. Each episode is a different fairy tale or story with a moral lesson imparted to the

characters and the viewer. She represents a very cynical viewpoint that there's actually a very dark lesson to learn from these fairy tales instead of a light, bright, simple one that might affirm life and love. And gradually the K drama of it all is that she kind of pivots and she realizes what is love and what is the light part of the fairy tale that she's been missing, Like she's been missing the forest for the trees. And a lot of these fairy tales that she has been teaching these

people throughout the show. I liked it. It's her recontextualizing all these fairy tales, these these, you know, parables basically in her own life. Her this is one that I liked the call back to it, but not necessarily the first time it happened was when she screams I love you at him early on in the show. She's like aggressively screaming I love you at him just to get his attention because she knows he's fundamentally love

starved and affection deprived. It's a very early episode antic and it's super iconic, but it's manipulative, right? Like you can see that it's super manipulative. She stalked him all the way to this hospital, in the seat at the seaside hospital. And to me, that's all part of her mental illness. She has antisocial personality disorder. And I would say the one thing that I don't like about the shows, they don't go into this

diagnosis. They don't flesh out like, what is this look like on her necessarily? What is antisocial personality disorder? Does she need more treatment? Does she need more therapy? Is this like, does she not really have it at the end of the day? Was it just sort of conditioning and training and abuse from her mother, like all this stuff? So that would be my complaint about it.

And I think that goes into the portrayal of mental health and mental illness in the show, which is upon this rewatch, I was like, this is good but not great. And five years ago, I was like, this is really great and, you know, step in the right direction. And today, watching it, I'm like, it's good.

Definitely good. I also thought that although the mental health aspect of the show was great to see, it almost felt like it was being used as a device, yes to push block forward rather than exploration of what those mental health challenges mean for these different characters. Yes. It was just taking us to the next step. The show walks a weird line of being gimmicky and being sincere.

And I think I felt that a lot more this time around because like just to keep it a buck, these the healthcare errors of practice are like endless, right? Like the doctor ditches his patient when he sees Munyong coming towards them because he fired her from the lit classes. The doc allows her to do these lit classes despite knowing she's a loose cannon and very volatile.

There's like several people that escape from the hospital and I get that they have like this open door policy, but that's ridiculous. Director O again, just triggering patients for fun. Like he's I don't understand that. And then employees just watching these massive breakdowns, massive meltouts happen. No attempts at intervening. They just like let it happen for

the plot, right? Like it for for us as viewers, we know it's for entertainment, but like I'm like this is not like over and over again, these infractions kind of build up and it makes me a little bit annoyed nowadays. I don't know if you guys felt that way. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Plus one to what you both shared.

I think one of my critiques when I rewatched it was actually some of these characters, some of the patients at the hospital, either I was like, we either need to go into a little more depth for some of them, have few of them that we're focusing on or else just keep them use that use that time to maybe, you know, just to your point, focus on Coleman Young and her her own, you know, like anti personality. I'm saying it wrong, right, But like, you know, anti social personality, antisocial

personality. Yes, that's it. Thank you. Because it's almost like, yeah, there's there's all this it's not noise, but these other little things happening here and there, as Mel said, to drive the plot forward. But we're we're just kind of glossing over and it's like, could we not spend a little bit more time, maybe have a little bit more in depth for one or two of them, but not like every, yeah.

I don't know, a couple of like stray notes that I just want to throw in here before we continue. There's Subway product placement, which I was like, wow. I think Quiznos has like taken the place of Subway because recently in a recent drama, there was a Quiznos product placement and I was like, oh

man, it's nice to see. It was actually nice to see Subway it from 2020. And Speaking of Komunyong, Soyaji does not know how to smoke a cigarette, has no clue whatsoever what to do with a cigarette. I don't know if you guys are like sticklers for certain things, but people that don't know how to smoke a cigarette in a movie or ATV show, I'm like, that takes me straight the fuck out. Like I'm like, what is she's like holding it weird And I'm like girl, like get some.

There has to be a smoker on set with you just like have them coach you for like half an hour because this is ridiculous. She's holding these like luxurious looking cigarettes the most awkward way. So I had a problem with her and they never showed her smoking either. She's like, she has never smoked a cigarette in her life. It looks like just from just from how she was portraying this smoker, I'm like, no, she's not. She's not a smoker. Sorry to say, I'm going to have to go back.

I'm going to have to go back. And because I'm like, wait. But can I add a stray note that I'm like, I keep thinking about, yeah. How unlikable was Jury as a character? Do you guys remember? And she, she has gone on to be like such a great actress in all these shows. And we, that was my first introduction to her, and I shouldn't know. And she's gonna be good because I really disliked her character. I was just like, for half the show I was like, what even What

is her beef? I don't get it. And then they showed the flashback and I was still like, gosh, you suck. It was, I don't know. I had like very little sympathy for her. So I'm glad you mentioned it because she was like a web blanket a little bit, even though her relationship with the manager was getting real cute by the end of the show. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to shake her half the time, like girl, stand up girl. Said exactly, exactly. Oh my gosh.

She also she lures Kante and Sante to the seaside town. Also, she's like, I have like an empty room. You don't have to worry about where you're going to live and they're you can get double pay at the hospital because you're certified and whatever. I'm like, girl, you're trapping this man to go live in this trauma town from when he was a child. Anyway, thanks. Thanks for bringing up that character. I actually had no notes on her, but that was I was just

spitballing. So going back up to some of the questions that people had, some people and some people are now calling into question Kim SU Kyun's performance and they're saying that I honestly thought the female lead and the autistic brother were standout performances and the male lead was just blah. How do you feel about these people? Now?

I'm not sure if this person felt this way always, but I haven't seen this online that people are like, oh, Kim SU Kyun never could act, could he, blah blah, blah. Like, and we'll just keep it to the context of it's OK to not be OK. What? What would you say to those claims? I would say not the revisionist history of getting I'm getting. That's what I'm saying. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I actually I actually did see a review online somewhere, but this is from like back in 20.

I think it was a 2021 blog where someone did say Kante is sort of a one note character. And so that that was in 2020, 2020-2021, whatever it was. So I mean, I think there are probably people out there who from the get go were like, but I think it was but by design because he does have my experience of him is that, you know, he is supposed to be this character who's trying to keep it together. He's just like, let's keep it even keeled because he

shouldn't. He didn't want to show too much emotion that might be misinterpreted by by Sante, You know, whatever it was, right. And so it's like there may be little moments. There are just some subtle moments where it's like, OK, you're seeing a little bit more of what it is he's trying to keep suppressed. But I don't know, maybe I'm just, maybe it's just me, but I think it was part of the the character. Yeah, I mean, please don't take away going to his tears away

from him. Like they didn't affect us. Like the whole moments where I was tearing up with him. I think it's exactly what you're saying. No, he represented the character well and you could feel he. I remember saying this in our first review is that he had an underlying sadness to him that I thought Kim SU Hyun really did well. Like in every scene you felt like this is someone who is carrying a lot. He is his shoulders are bred like every he is burdened.

He is going through it and he's just trying to keep it calm, just trying to get through the day, just trying to, you know, make sure that his brother is OK. And I think, yeah, I, I mean, we may have his our issues with him now, but I thought that he did did well in that. And that's what made all three characters so great. They all brought the A game to to the show. Yeah, that's my perspective. If I can just add to that. Yeah. Sure.

So Coleman Young calls him the. Is it like the pin and the grenade or whatever? Like yeah, safety pin or something. Yeah. And and yeah, I think performances don't have to be big and loud for them to be impactful, right? It's like Munyang and Sante are the way they are because those are the characters. And and yeah, Kante is like that balancing element, although he is his own grenade, clearly,

but. Yeah, I agree. I would say something that I resonated with in 2020 and something that continues to really resonate with me is the fact that Kante is a caregiver. He's a full time caregiver and he's had no support for his entire life. And that's not something people like to talk about is that caregivers need care. That's a very unique struggle. And unfortunately, like I have been in the position where I have cared for family members and seeing other family members

full time caregive for others. And I completely understood why he was the way that he was and why he was so suppressed, right? He wasn't repressed, he was suppressed. He did it to himself, right? He was constantly choking back emotions and suppressing happiness and, you know, making decisions that he thought would benefit his brother. This is the type of character and this is the type of story that no one likes to admit happens on a day-to-day.

And if you look around, this happens way more often in real life, which is why I think the drama is also so special. Is that it? It's basically the emancipation of a caregiver. How do you let go of a family member who maybe is a little more self-sufficient than you thought? And I thought it was beautiful. I thought it was very effective. We can get into a little bit more that journey and that character in spoilers, but I don't think that Kim Sukiyong performance was lacking in any

way, shape or form. OK, so I'm actually going to go through some fun facts, some accolades for the show, a little bit of development notes, and then we are going to give our score out of five soldier bottles and then we're just going to get into spoilers. I feel like we talked a lot, but we haven't talked about the twists in the show. I had a question come through about the twist in the show, how we felt about it. So we will get into that in the

spoiler section. So fun facts the viewership slash popularity. According to Nielsen Korea, the series recorded an average nationwide TV viewership rating of 5.4%. It was the most popular show of 2020 in the romance genre on Netflix in South Korea. It was the most popular K drama series on Netflix in many countries such as Taiwan, and the most enduring Korean drama in Malaysia, Philippines, Singapore, and Thailand.

So Asia just ate it up. It was in the top ten list in Netflix for more than 100 days there, and the series was also the most popular K drama of 2020 on Netflix in Australia, Hong Kong, India, Japan and South Africa. It made the New York Times list of Best International Shows of 2020 and at the 57th Pick Song Awards it received 8 nominations with two wins for Best Supporting Actor and Best Technical Achievement for Costume Design.

It received a nomination at the 49th International Emmy Awards in the Best TV Movie or Miniseries category as well. So in development, I think you guys mentioned the writer and how she was so good at portraying a lot of this stuff and how we really resonated with Mr. Plankton as well. Who most recent work Toe Young based the drama on her relationship with a man who had a personality disorder.

She developed Moonsang Tay's character by listening to the stories of people with autistic brothers and referred to the books recommended by the CEO of Bear Better, a social enterprise where people with developmental disabilities work. Fashion director Cho Sang Kyung managed costumes, while fashion designer Kim Minju designed some of Komo Young's dresses so she

was dressed in couture. Kim SU Hyun considered It's OK to not Be OK to be his comeback drama following his obligatory military enlistment, and at the press conference for the drama, he said that he joined the project after being drawn to its title and Moon Kang Te's character. When asked about his character at the press conference, All Jung Sei commented that autism isn't an illness but something

you're born with. If you think about Korea and the way that they're kind of behind, yeah, makes a lot of sense. So Mel, you mentioned the books. The five children's story books that appeared in the drama were written by the screenwriter Cho Young and illustrated by concept artist Cham San. They were published in Korean in the summer of 2020, same summer that this aired. And according to Kyobo Book Center and Yes, 24, all five books were listed in the top 20

best selling books of the month. We talked about sexually inappropriate scenes. Guess what got flagged for sexually inappropriate scenes? The series was criticized on social media, and the Korea Communication Standards Commission received over 50 formal complaints, largely for a scene in which Moon Young overtly stares and touches Khante's body as he gets stressed.

In another scene, a male character who suffers from manic depression and exhibitionism reveals parts of his body with his genitals being covered by a drawing of an elephant. Some viewers defended these scenes as ways of expressing the

characters personalities. On August 26th, 2020, the broadcast censorship body issued a legal sanction to the television series for sexually inappropriate scenes in episode 3, judging it to be against the broadcast celebration regulations, and cited Article 27 on duties of integrity and Article 30 on gender equality. The subcommission gave the reasoning, even considering the fact that they were meant to exaggeratedly express a character's personality.

The scenes in question show how insensitive the drama's producers are to gender equality in broadcasting content that may be little a certain gender and hold the possibility to justify sexual harassment and molestation. OK. Well, that's a bitch, but. You guys were like, Oh, no. OK, gender equality. OK. I was like, oh, Oh no, not gender equality, because a man's got his. Shirt off, Listen, men's rights and whatnot. Oh no, not a man with an elephant covering his genitals.

That's degrading to the man. Oh my gosh. Oh. Yes, yes. Well, OK, here's my thing. OK, I just want to make a very quick comment. The part about the the character who reveals parts, who flashes people, essentially. Yeah, like. I I agree with the people who are defending the scene, right? Because they're like, this is the character, right? He has this mental illness and

this is how he's acting out. And so it's almost like if this were happening in real life, you would pish posh and do whatever. But it's yeah, it is what it is. Anyway you. See if they penalize this one, which is it makes it difficult for other shows to air. It makes it difficult for the broadcast station or the broadcaster to get other licenses and things. It's it's a pretty heavy slap on the wrist. Other shows are not going to do this. You understand where I'm coming

from. Like this is also going to make other shows play it safer. Yeah, yeah. They basically said we need to find them before. This sets a precedent. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So think about it from a lot of different angles. How many soju bottles would you give? It's OK to not be OK. Five being the best, the most.

I would give it 4 soju bottles and I think this might be higher than what I gave it in our review because as I said retrospectively, I think it's gotten better with age besides all the drama surrounding the scandal. But it is such and I I recommend this to people when they ask me if they're entering the K drama world well based on their preferences. But it's usually one that comes to the top of the list. And like, you should try this. It's got good acting, a good story.

The short stories are great. I mean, we did critique the stuff about the mental health for sure. But I think overall it's it's a it's a banger for me. I loved it. And I hope to see. So yeah, G Moore in the coming years, honestly. Yeah, me too. Mal, you actually had a high rating in our episode. But but my, yeah, my rating is a four. We can't do partials, right. I can't say. You can do, yeah, you can do halves, I think. I can I just. Like halves, Yeah. OK, OK.

I would give it channeling. OK. I would give it a four and a half out of five soju bottles. I think just the drama is it's, it's just, it's giving, it's giving. It's always been giving. I think that the characters are so rich. They're they're complex. And yeah, the only points I would take away are four things we've already talked about. But this is a really, I think, a well done drama. For sure. OK, I am going to come in and give it one. I'm just kidding.

I'm not going to get one. I did after all this. I'm like 1 Sodu bottle. Yeah, I'm going to give it. I think I'm going to give it the same thing that I gave it last time. I think I gave like 3.99 out of five. I'm just going to round it up to four. I don't know what I was on in 2020 thinking. I think I was getting cute with it and like 3.999. Yeah, I'm just going to give it four out of five's Hoju bottles because it's quite good.

And the complaints that I had last time, I don't even know what they were, but I have complaints now and I can get it. I already said some, but I can get into like my biggest one now in the spoiler section. And like that also factors in the Kim Sukian of it all as well. And I feel like that is maybe half a star because while I was re watching it, I did have to take a break.

I did have to, you know, collect myself and get through a couple of episodes where I was like, like wincing a little bit. But I feel like the characters are so strong, are so vivid, and the storytelling is pretty great that I just got sucked in again after a few days and after, you know, taking a minute. But to collect myself and doing other things and like going out inside and touching some grass, I was like, OK, I'm back in. Like I'm locked in again. I really enjoy the show.

I would still recommend it. It's still excellent. So 4 out of five Hoju bottles. I think we all, you know, wrestled with it in different ways and it still came out high-ranking high for us. So that's great. We are going to get into the spoiler section right after this. Excuse me? I can't, you know, I am. Oh, sorry. Swear. Discussing shit? What? All right, we're on the other side of spoilers. We are going to spoil.

It's OK to not be OK. It is a 5 year old show and if you haven't watched it, we encourage you to go watch it and then come back later. Come back and continue listening to this episode. We did give a few things away, but nothing that wasn't necessarily an episode 1. So I think you had something you wanted to revise. Noli, did you want to revise your score at this point in time? Yes, yes, I did. I wanted to revise it down because I remembered.

Actually it's because of something you said just in your rating, which is just remembering my experience of rewatching it the second time around. I couldn't rewatch it to the end. And so I will just bring it down to a four. And I also remember there was some wild things and I was like wait, wait what how did we get here kind of thing.

And yeah, because I didn't finish rewatching, maybe, maybe y'all can help me understand that little the plot twist, the whole thing with Kobe Young's mother. Girl, so let's talk about it. So there was somebody reached out. That was the question that I got that someone was like you guys need to talk about this thing that happened since the last few episodes.

So this person said I only watched this last year and I ended up watching it twice the second time forcing my husband to watch it with me. It is a 10 out of 10K drama for me. I love the arc with all three leads. Some of my questions what do you think about the mystery nurse slash mom plot twist? I cannot tell you anything about the motivations of that mom.

I was so confused. I was so confused by her and that she just first she she was like plotting this for 12 years with the dad as a patient and then she flipped in the last moments because she wanted Munyang to be hers. Guys I am completely lost with that one. And you know what normally bring it down 3.5. I get it. So half a star for Kim SU Hyun and the mental health and half a star for this fucking wild plot twist in this show. And that's where I'm at with four-star four. I'm not sorry.

Force hold you bottles out of five. Because I'll tell you, five years ago when I watched this, I thought it came out of left field, but I just kind of like took it. I was just like, OK, fine. And that was my approach in the blog review that I did this time around. I was like reading the tea leaves on it. I was picking up all the clues.

I was like, OK, they're setting a lot of things into motion in the early episodes with there's a ghost haunting the hospital, people are hearing My Darling Clementine being hummed in the halls, and someone is is choking out the dad in the middle of the night and causing his seizures. And a lot of different things are happening that are supposedly clues.

I appreciated the mystery, the enigma of the mom when it was just this spirit, this sort of ghost, this presence that was oppressing Moon Young and sort of heavy over her life, right? And I liked the mystery that she could be alive. We don't know where she is. Her body is missing. We don't know if she could be around, could come back into her life. When it was revealed that it was Nurse Park, I was like, get the fuck out. Like, honestly, I hated it. I hated it.

I hated it. I wanted to flip a table. Even though apparently this was a theory that people had back in the day when they when people were watching it ongoing, they had the theory that Nurse Park was the mom. Yeah, I remember. I called it like episode like 3 or something. Normally remember I was like Nurse Dad, She's shady, something's gonna come up with her. But that does not mean that I appreciated how it came. Up exactly the execution. It's the execution, right? I was.

Like what? And you know, they connected all the dots with the butterfly, the brother's mom. And, and then she said she just, she just blew up on us. And it's like I was fast forwarding a little bit. No, Lisa, do you want to, like, weigh in on the mom on the twist? I mean, I just remember again, like, it did feel rewatching it, I didn't get to the point where, you know, she's revealed. But rewatching it, I was watching that character. Yeah, because I was just like,

OK, what? What did I miss the first time around? It's not overt. I will say it's not, not yeah. It's not there are many things because all along I was just like, wow, like, you know, this nurse, what a she's so good at her job. Look at her go you and, you know, rewatching it, I'm like, OK, there were some moments. So I'm just like, she's staring a little too long at this person or whatever it was, right?

But even then, I was just like, what a wild, wild, wild, wild, wild it. Still feels like it came out of left field. Yeah, it did feel like I was just like, wow, that's kind of contrived in a sense. And then, as always, whenever you have, we met as kids, Yeah. And then for there to now be this added layer of childhood, can you know? Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Oh. My gosh, guys, remember the scene where Gangte is with Munyang and then she's like a child and normally remember we had the conversation even back then we were like, that's what we had seen. Like they tried. Oh, wait, are you talking about the flowers, the flower scene when he gives her flowers and then he kind of envisions her as a child? Yeah. You know, he finally gave her flowers. Yeah. That's not hitting like it used to. Definitely.

Not, not quite not. Quite not quite hitting the same. I agree completely. I almost did a video. I was because I I was like, maybe I'll do like a little quick, you know, shitty little TikTok on this. And then I was like, I'm not going to you know what? I'm choosing peace today. And I was like, no, we're just going to move on and keep playing this show. I agree completely. That was what, like midway through the show, maybe. Yeah, around midway through the show.

And I agree. I, I had to pause and take a minute. I was like, because what, what transpired before that was so sweet, was so pure. He finally goes and gets her flowers. He's like, I got you something that I, you know, never got to give you before because she trampled on the flowers that he came to give her before as a child and scared him off. He ran off and he gives her the flowers. She's like, oh, my God, they're so beautiful. And he's like, you're beautiful. It's like, very.

It's like, you know, it's so saccharine. And he goes in and he just kisses her and he just starts giggling. And he's so giddy and smiley and she's smiling. It's just such a great moment between them. It's so almost innocent, like childlike between them. And then they go with like, cut to it is adult Kim Sukhyon envisioning her as a child with the flowers. And I'm like, Yep, Nope. I'm tapping out. I'm tapping. Oh, no, Seth didn't age well. Didn't age well at all.

But, you know, circling back to the mom, OK, the plot twist for the reveal of Nurse Park and everything happens in episode 13. We see Nurse Park driving off, smiling maniacally. She's alive. She's wearing her bespoke butterfly brooch again that she stole from the mansion, and she's got her red nails on the red lipstick, and she's just vandalized Sante's painting with the butterfly, which is the fugliest butterfly I've ever seen. Like, I was like, she couldn't

have drawn it better. Anyway, I'm like nitpicking the shit out of this bitch. Anyway, so that is when everyone is reeling. Moon Young finally realizes that not only is her mother alive and that her mother is Nurse Park, their mother murdered their mother back in the day and caused all of this heartache and all of this whole spiral to happen in their lives. How did you feel about maybe Moon Young feeling responsible and at fault for what her mother

did? Did that feel true to her character, or was her even feeling bad a reflection of how much growth she'd had? Because I almost feel like, well, I mean, I don't know. I don't know. Because I wonder if episode 1 Munyang would have been like, OK, sounds like a personal problem to me, right. Whereas here for her to even be feeling bad is is it because she now has this this connection, this affection for these

brothers. And so, you know, she their pain is her pain, Ish. And so, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I don't know, hadn't thought about it. It's. Like I think it's definitely a character growth thing where she now had more empathy and she was now in in love, right? And this is a pain that her love was feeling, and she felt the weight of that. And I thought, yeah, I thought it made sense for her to to feel

that way at that stage. I mean, they drew it out a little bit, but definitely I felt that it would it would make sense for her to be at that point and that at that stage of the story. I think it was completely unbelievable and warranted that she would feel that way. And if you haven't been watching K dramas for a long time, there is a huge like sins of the father thing in Korea, right? So they place a lot of blame on children.

And there is this whole bloodlines concept in Korea where you don't really know someone unless they you know who their family is, what they do and where they come from. Our mother is a psycho and a murderer. The fact that she's like, leave, I'm going to hurt you eventually stems from that. It stems from not the fact that she's been, you know, nurtured by them the last several months, healed throughout the show. It's that she could turn out like her mom, right? That's her blood.

It's really heartbreaking to see her think that way. And it's really sad, but also gratifying to see that contest stays by her. He want, he's like, you know what? No, I've made my decision. You know, I've wrestled with this and I love you. We're going to stick together and I'm going to work through this alongside of you because I love you. The alternative is you're not in my life, and that's more

painful. So I found that extremely powerful, extremely moving in the argument of nature versus nurture. Korea's definitely on the nature side. If some, if you're the daughter or son of a of a killer, you're definitely going to turn out to be a killer, right? Like for sure, that's what Korea

thinks. So what's interesting about the show is that the mom also nurtured her to be a psycho, to have these antisocial personality disorder tendencies, which is why I think maybe the writer didn't want to make anything black and white regarding her diagnosis. Because it seems like by the end of the show, she's well on her way to being cured, right? She's, she's showing so much

emotion, so much promise. She's understanding herself a lot better and she's integrating better within, you know, this found family and this, this new family that she's forged. She's a lot less volatile. I wonder if she even had any social personality disorder, truly, or if it was nurtured in

her by her psycho mother. If that was something that her mother was like, I'm going to nurture also train her to be just like me, something that isn't, again, like that's just something open to her interpretation. Although I'm not sure it should be in the context of like good mental illness representation and mental health representation. It's kind of just like very vague. Does she or does she not have

antisocial personality disorder? But the goofiness of the mom in the last couple of episodes, I couldn't get behind that. Yeah, couldn't get behind that. She came back and she was like, oh, I want my daughter. She's not acting right. I want her to become more like how she used to be. She kidnaps on drugs. Sante Kante rushes to the mansion. It's a face off. It is so cartoonish. It just cheapened a lot of the show to me. I didn't like the ultimatum also

that she gave him. Yeah. When she's going like this, like with her arms wide open, she's like, or you just kill me. And then when she realizes that you've killed me for revenge, you've killed her mother for revenge, then she'll go back to how she used to be. I was like, what the fuck are we doing here?

I was like. Like, no way, just we're, we're always talking about how K dramas, like when it comes to the ending, it's always such a, it's a, it's a shaky road to the end because the plot can get derailed so easily, you know, and it's almost like I'm all, we're always laughing stuff like, OK, is it now that they're feeling the pressure? Like the drama is doing really well and it's like, we want there to be a really spectacular ending. And sometimes it's like, are we trying to do too much?

To to wrap it up. They did too much. Yeah, yeah. And it's like sometimes, you know, simple, simple is OK, right. I think to your point where it was like, OK, we could keep it. I don't know how they would have resolved her mother that whole thing in a simpler or like at least a way that's more like, OK, yeah, love that. That makes sense. But I'm not the writer here. So right, like I'm not going to do her job, but like, honestly, well, what did I just watch?

What did I just watch? The whole the entire confrontation was so cringy. And the I think from Jiang Yung Nam, who is playing the resurrected mom over the top. And it's not necessarily her fault. Like that's how the writer intended that to be. 100% Yeah. Even the ham fisted that Sunday clocks are over the head with a freaking fairy tale book. There's so many scenes, Oh my gosh. Oh God, it was too. So here's a fist. Here's Ham. Like it was literally so Ham fisted.

I like the fact that he saved the day. I don't like how he saved it. It was just. It's like you had the right idea. Right, that's what the hell. That's what I'm saying anyway. So there's a lot of really great moments in the finale though, post all of this nonsense that I teared up at, like the tree planting scene where they like plant the tree in honor of their mom and they put the new family photo on there. Sante is saying you weren't born to take care of me, that's not

why mom gave birth to you. And it's just a very full circle moment for the brothers. It's completely needed. Appealing moment between them. Very beautiful. What was also beautiful, something we haven't touched on specifically is the relationship between Sante and Munyang and how she just treated him just really just like another person. And the way they relationship evolved is as siblings.

And him feeding her in the last few episodes when she felt guilty about her her mom killing their mom. It was such a sweet relationship and it was so pure. I love that I I just wanted to let those dynamics those two did did so well. Yeah. Now, thank you for bringing that up, because I was just thinking how for Sante, it seems one of his gripes, if we can call it that, is that all he wanted to do was to be seen and treated as the Big Brother right by by Kante, right.

And it's like he wasn't. He knew he wasn't getting that. He knew that Kante was essentially walking on egg shells around him and never really being honest about how he may have been feeling. Whereas with Munyang, Munyang from the get go was like, that's my dog. Like the fact that they were able to fight and, you know, have their little spats, but like it was such a a genuine and yeah, a really authentic connection and relationship.

And yeah, I love that. That then opened up a way for the brothers to also, you know, find a way to each other. Or back to each other? Yeah, you got that call back in the episode 15 of him desperately screaming at her. I love you because she's pushing him away. And like, no, I don't want to be with you because it's it, you know, I love when they circle back on things like that. Were there other big moments that you guys really appreciated in the show? I mean, I always love me a good

kiss. Well, they're this show has so many like good kisses, right? Even the last episode between 15 and 16, there's them. I think they make out on the desk right in the. Mansion. The castle, which is like. I remember being very proud of them and being like this is what we wanted, mature kissing that everybody short kissing, everybody's involved. Everybody kisses. Yeah, exactly. But. Yeah. I was going to say a scene that I really loved.

I mean, it's earlier in the drama is when when she first has, it's not her first nightmare, but she has that nightmare and. Oh yeah. Essentially, he like, you know, he, he comes to the room and just calms her down. And I, I don't know, it was just such a a heart warming scene because it's we're seeing Munyang's vulnerability after we've seen her in her badass element and just, you know, like nobody can touch me. Nothing can touch me. But like just seeing her in that

super vulnerable moment. And he bears witness to that. That was a a powerful scene for me. Yeah. I think it really just showed their chemistry, unconnectedness. Yeah, I agree. I agree completely. She's screaming and sobbing for him to get out while simultaneously clinging on to him for dear life, and he reads her correctly that she doesn't want him to leave, actually, and he just hugs her to his chest and says I won't leave, I won't leave, don't worry, I won't leave.

I loved it, sue me, I'm buying it. I'm eating it up. It's great. That's a great scene. There's so many actually in in the first few episodes that are so iconic. Like I vividly remember her making the kid cry in the restaurant and stealing the knife and like trying to kill the escaped patient who was trying to commit suicide with his daughter, him blocking the knife and then she stabs Kante. Wild. Just like wild stuff in the 1st episode. Yeah.

The flashback scene. All the flashback scenes are really cool because the little girl that plays her is so beautiful and so haunting. I'm not sure if I've seen her in some other stuff since then, but yeah, when you finally get the full flashback of her saving him, it's really great. And I think that's a little bit of the argument for she's probably not, doesn't have antisocial personality disorder because she's like ripping petals to figure out if she's

going to save him. She's like, I'll save him, I won't save him, I'll save him, won't save him. And on the last pedal, it's she will not save him. And we know she does. She does it anyway. Yeah, yeah. So she's, you know, she's a good person. She does it anyway, even as a child. And thinking of flashbacks, one of the scenes that I really loved was when we we flashback to Sante and Kante with their mother.

I think they were sleeping well. They're they're actually just a few different moments where Kante is remembering it as the mom focusing exclusively on Sante and he's just kind of like, you know, feeling just cast aside. But when they show, I guess the other perspective, it's like she she was always also looking out for him. Like when they're walking, I think she's carrying an umbrella and she turns back and like calls him when they're sleeping,

he thinks. So she has her back to him and she's kind of hugging Sante and he's just there feeling unloved and whatever. But you know, she like she turns around and I don't know, it's just it's such a there's so much love that he wasn't seeing that his mom is really just. I agree, yeah. Yeah, what did you think about Chase Sue? The little psychic, the friends, the pizza pizzeria owner. I don't think I had that many

thoughts about him to be honest. I honestly thought if this was a western show he would be in a full on one sided love with Kante right? Like this would be a gay character and he would be moving around because he loves it. Like he's romantically in love with him. But I guess because it's platonic and they're just friends it almost makes even less sense. Like why is this guy putting his life on hold? Exactly. Moving around with that, like what did you guys think? What?

Same exactly. I'm like, I love my friends, but am I going to just yeah, like what? What am I doing in my life? Like what? What is motivating me in life? What do I want in life? And it's just not coming across so much for Jason. He's just like, I want to be. I'm the third brother and I'm like, OK. No one else. Cody was the 3rd brother. That was the saddest. That was the saddest part about Jason character Jason Jury, the

publisher. All those characters, just like they were all created to just plop up the three main characters, regardless of how pitiful their own lives were. In episode 3, she says what is a fairy tale? A fairy tale is a cruel fantasy that illustrates the brutality and violence of this world in a paradoxical manner. Wow. She said glass half empty.

Literally glass half empty. Something that I did love about her is that she is very sexually forward and she says multiple times like, do you want to sleep with me? Yes, I'm horny, I admit that. And she's constantly trying to jump his bones and I don't know, that really worked for me. Did you guys feel the same way or did you feel like it was overkill? No, I loved it. She was. She represents what we always see in those CEO's, those K drama CEO's.

And I was, I was here for it. I was like, Munya. Express yourself, girl. Get that man naked. And I think, I think it's also how, and she says a couple of times she's like, when I see what I like, I must get it. So she's just very, she's, she's just all about it. And I'm like, I, I love to see a sex positive character that's you know, and she's not shying away from it. This is, this is who she is and just how she rolls.

And I know a lot of people were probably clutching their pearls like, what in the Yeah. I have no doubt. It was great. Yeah, in episode 3, there's a scene where the flasher escapes and she helps him escape and go

to the father's political rally. And it's this whole thing where he admits on the stage that he's been seeking his father's attention because he was abused and scorned since he wasn't as smart as his siblings who did well in school and went to SNU, and he gradually became mentally ill In the black sheep of the family, the male lead, Kante imagines that he's in his place.

He's taking the place of the flasher, evading security and laughing and making a scene and dancing on stage and being free, freely admitting that he has a problem and freely admitting that he's not OK and letting loose and unafraid of consequences or of looking different or wrong. And this, this OST song is playing in the background that's saying Hallelujah over and over again, which to me implies that this whole thing, there's something about this is holy.

And at the end of this, he turns to Moon Young and says, should I just have fun with you? I love how that kind of bears out in the rest of the show, how he gradually just unburdens himself and does let loose and has fun with her and definitely loosens up, right. He's just so uptight, so suppressed, and nothing about him is happy, right? Even his brother, you know, Sante sees him smiling in his sleep and he's like, I've never seen him happy, right?

He's like shocked. He has to go to the poster full of emotions and he's like, I have to identify this emotion because he's never seen Kante happy. Yeah. My goodness, that was definitely one of the most heartbreaking things about Kante's character. And to see him smile at the end in the last episode, it was just, yeah, I was so beautiful. What a what a character,

honestly. Yeah, not wanting to be a caregiver, being actually really good at being a caregiver, and then understanding that it's really not necessarily a burden and letting go. And, you know, it's a delicate balance. And Moon Young actually asked him in one of the early episodes, why can't he take care of her, too? And he answers, I don't want to be someone who's needed by others anymore. He's just tired, right? And she's chasing after him, threatening to kill him if he leaves.

And she's being very manipulative and possessive in this point, using Sante to get him to come to her. She's constantly using Sante to lure him to the mansion or to where she is. And at this point, she says, you are mine. I let you live. Because the whole thing at this point was that they realized the childhood connection. I don't know. Like, I understand why people dropped it if they didn't like the manipulation tactics from her.

But I also understand that she saw through him and he saw through her. Yeah, she saw what he needed and he saw what she needed. Yeah, she calls him a hypocrite, like, right off the bat, right? And it's like you're out here with this facade, but I see you. I see you. But what do you think of the moment that she cuts her hair? I don't remember that what happens in that scene. Yeah, so she cuts her hair. It was one of those things where her mom was like, you should never cut your hair.

Kind of unpacking mom trauma. She cuts her hair finally, kind of trying to cut off this connection and this, this trauma, all this baggage that she has with her mom. And she does like a hack job. It looks horrible. And Kante fixes her hair and does this Bob for her. It looks amazing. Apparently he's also a hairdresser. Well, from cutting his brother's hair, right? Because nobody Sante didn't. We didn't want people touching his thing. So it's like, OK. Apparently.

He's he's really talented at this because he's his brother's. Barber, sure, sure, sure, sure. From being a Barber to one person to cutting like an entire like style. All right, anyway. I mean, I think I, I like, I like the symbolism of, you know, like just that untethering from her, her mom or the, the lore of her mother, right? Just that, yeah, I think it's always, not always. But I like when you have that really powerful moment or it's like, OK, this means something to the character.

And for us looking in, you're like, OK, I can see how this this could free you or unburden you or untether you from the source of your your pain and trauma. And yeah. I agree and in the same episode so you have her untethering. I like that word they use. So you have her untethering from her mom, cutting her hair and

trying to disassociate from her. And you have Kante actually getting closer to his mom in this episode because he gets drunk and he's wondering if his mom feels badly or sorry for how she treated him. And he suggests to Sante back at the mansion that they go eat Chambon at the restaurant that he loves to eat at. And Sante unlocks this flashback memory saying that they only ate there so often because their mom knew that was his favorite. That was Kante's favorite to

eat. And it sends him like spiraling. He's sobbing into Sang Pei's back in the middle of the night and I'm just like Oh my God. This is interesting to see how their dynamics with their moms play out and how they address it. Each character addresses it differently in the show. That scene is one of those that for me shows Kim Sokkun's talent because it's such a, it's such a quiet moment. You see it and and I'm just like, look at that, look at that. So that that was acting, good acting.

It is acting. The other showcase that has stuck with me, and I remember this scene vividly is in episode 9. And I don't know if you remember this scene. It's when they do, like a sleepaway thing. We just talked about this scene where he gives her flowers and they kiss for the first time. It's kind of like a pop kiss. But they end up back at the hospital. And Kante lied to his brother, to Sante about where he was overnight. Sante was worried sick. He was waiting up for him.

And that's when Sante overnight draws that picture of them in the camper. And that foreshadows like the end of the show. But Sante has a breakdown in the hospital. He reveals that he remembers Kante wishing him dead and almost letting him die.

This scene is an emotional touch point for me personally for the entire show because despite me remembering like little things here and there and scenes here and there and iconic things, the safety pin and the butterfly method of her hugging and stuff. No no no. This scene of Sante throwing water at him and calling him fake and Kante trying to apologize can't get the words out.

Sante has completely locked him up because he's touched on what he is most ashamed of, what he's feels most guilty of. And he repeats, oh, I wish Young would just die. You said that Kant is breaking down in tears. Sante is a mess, crying, screaming. He wants his young dead through every corner of the hospital, and Kante is literally just on the floor. That was powerful. I remember that scene now and like if you cannot say Kim SU Hyun didn't act his socks off

for that drama. If you watch that scene, wow, so emotional jazz. And you know, just following on that, Kante is busy saying I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And then later when they're back at the apartment, the roof apartment, Jerry's mom's place, and Kante comes back and Sante goes into his little zip up closet. And you know, so Kante is trying to apologize and Sante makes him say what it is he's apologizing for, right?

He says, what are you sorry for? And I think that's that's such an important moment for them both because there are many times that Kante has said, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, you know, usually to cover up some lie or whatever it is. But in this moment, because it's it's really just that source of their pain. It's like, no, you need to actually say out loud what it is you're sorry for. And he then I think that also frees or unburdens Kante to some

degree because he's like. I'm sorry for leaving you or running away. I'm sorry for saying I wish you would die. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I wish, I'm sorry, I said. I wish I had a normal brother and and and. Yeah, all of it. 10 out of 10. So powerful. So I think I liked Munyong's sentiment when she says it's ridiculous. Are all parents automatically forgiven for the bad things they did before they die? And I think that's pretty accurate because on people's deathbeds, they want

forgiveness. They want to bury the hatchet. And she's like, fuck all that. We're not going to do that. Yeah, it's like just that redemption, the redemption arc, right? And it's like, you haven't actually. For what? Earned it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So interesting, Interesting thoughts. I think that we've been here long enough and we've litigated a lot of the show. I don't know if you guys had anything you guys wanted to add.

I really enjoyed this trip down memory lane and I think it just we and I ended up having so much more to say than I thought coming in. So just credit to you for setting us up for, for this, this conversation. And yeah, I mean, I, I now am curious. I want to go back and see Ko Munyong's smoking scenes. I want to go back and see what what happened with the dad at the end since I didn't get to do to wrap that up.

But yeah, so many things that I'm like, huh, OK, I'm thinking a little differently about that, so. Yeah, like there's a lot of K drama isms in it that I do, and I don't mind like the deer interrupting them every time they like want to have an intimate moment. Kim SU Kyon having his shirt off in the 1st 12 minutes of the show. So there's some things. So thank you guys for coming on here.

Thank you guys for for taking the time out and doing this deep dive with me. Before we get out of here, where can we find you guys online? We are on Instagram at Africans Soulmates, on X at Afrosoulmates and then for the podcast itself you can find us on Google Podcast, Spotify and Apple. And we love the DMS, that's where you find us the most. So if you get on our Instagram, we love getting into the Kiki of all the dramas that everyone. And I love the Insta takeovers.

They do Instagram takeovers every now and then and it's so much fun. And that's it. I'm Jessica and this has been the Tiba K Rambles podcast. Thank you, Jess.