Ep. 123: Working in the Hunting Industry

our our graphics at Phelps game calls. So, but I think I think you and I met like years ago, back when I co founded an elk hunting magazine called Extreme Elk Magazine back in the day. I think you were kind of helping out with some graphic art assets.

I feel like John's kind of a generalist. I feel like he's really good and a lot of different hunting. So he's really great hunting with bears, elk, antelope, deer, mule, deer.

the bear I want. Untell. I well, like this year, I jug it out clear to the end of season, so apparently I like waiting around on that. But maybe we'll have to dedicate a little more time just some turkeys.

gonna go deer hunting the first week archery instead. Of elk hunting is you know what, there's I'll probably have a lot more fun or you know, it's it's something different. I've never killed a mule deer with my bow. I'd love to, but it's always been every time just like, oh elk though, so I can see you know, your priorities can be skewed a little bit.

want to be out dinking around chasing a deer. So Utah, when I lived there was kind of fun because you could actually chase them in August, you know, up in the high country, so I felt like it never cut into my September, so that was great. But once I moved away from there, it kind of now I'm back in the Elk game.

way up to my spot in right at daylight. And I was running behind and had this giant bear across the road right in front of me and ran on some private and I whatever, So I take off up in the hills where I was going sold like an hour ago, get up there and sit glass till I don't know, it's like eleven o'clock or so nothing. And then I was seeing these turkeys back to my turkey, so they were down in the bottom of this by

this creek, way down in this hole. So I decided to grab my shotgun and go and chase a bird instead of a bear. So I take off dive clear down in this hole like a mile from the truck, and I'm getting set up on the bird and I start calling the bird's coming, and it's coming around this tree, and I'm like, I'm finally gonna kill one of these things, Like this is great, like I'm gonna shoot this big tom.

And then I look up past the tomb like over in the hillside and i see something black at like three hundred yards and I'm like, you've got to be kidding me, And I really instantly realized it's like a big bear. And so long story short, I throw my binos up, I look realize it's a huge bear, and I hike clear back out of there. Didn't even shoot the turkey, end up spooking the birds off. Didn't even shoot this turkey.

and it's right at the end of May. And I had Kylie with me. We come around this corner and there's this meadow down in the bottom with a wet just like that skunk cabbage grass stuff, and it like just a spot where you should see a bear feeding. And I've looked in there and looked in there for the last three years and never seen one in there. We come around, of course, she looks out the window and I stop and she goes, there's a bear stand

down there in your meadow. What I'm like, no, stop lying, And I thought she was pulling my leg and she's like, no, I'm being serious, there's a bear stand down there. Well, of course, instantly once I realized she was being serious, I flew out of the truck and grabbed my gun because I thought, you know, I knew it was. It had to be that bear because where I spotted him the couple of days or the week before, it was

like down three quarters of a mile from there. And I bail out, go around the front of the truck down over the hill and it's like this like lodge pole thick timber crossed and my short legs, I can't really crawl over anything, and you know, so I was like scrambling and this bear is only down there, like two hundred and fifty yards and I'm trying to get a rest, but it's so steep downhill through this timber

and I can't find anything. So finally I find this down tree and I lean across it and I pulled a total rookie move and I put the barrel on the on the tree. But it was so steep I kind of had to to lower my stock, you know that like inch and a half two inches that the stock is right there down to get the barrel to get the angle. If I was taller, I wouldn't have had that problem. But I put the barrel on the thing, and I wasn't thinking about the harmonics of the barrel,

and I dialed the gun. It was like two hundred and thirty six yards, touched it off, and all I hear is Kylie, you missed. And She's yelling down through the trees behind me, and I'm like, there's no way I missed that bear. And I look and he's just standing there. I'm like, oh, so Jack and Ochelle in boom, same thing, just stand there. She's like, you missed, and I'm just hear her voice like echoing down the timber, and I, of course, at this point I'm pissed. I'm like, how did I miss that bear?

positions though, and got on another tree. Well that time, I put the stock on the tree and I kind of have my hand like rested against in the stock and kind of everything lean across my arm and he runs out across and I figures like three hundred yards and I touch it off boom here the bullet hit. And I'm like, I know I hit that bear, and he takes course at that point too, when it hit him, he went into like overdrive, like turned on the after burners,

and I was like, Okay, that bear's hit. So I hike all the way back up through this crap to the truck and kay. He's like, I don't think you hit it, and I'm like, no, I know I hit that bear. And I'm like, did you hear the bullet? And watch how fast he ran? And then at that point I think I text you and I you know, it was like, oh, I shot this bear. And well

then is when it got wild. So I went around, drove around, had to go clear around and come over on this other hillside and hike down over the top and down in there, and as I start hiking down in there, I'm like, well, he should be right around here in this creek, and I'm like it's like open grassy meadow and I'm nothing, no bear, no sign of blood, no tracks, no nothing. And then of course on the hillside where I shot from is like this thick lodge

pole jack for like you can't see five feet. And then I started getting kind of nervous, and so I think at that point I had like scoured the whole meadow, looked where like he ran, found kind of his tracks going through the dirt and everything, and well that's when it started getting a little western. So at that point I think I text you again, and I was like, man, like I shot this bear, like I know I hit him. I can't find him.

coming down at me. I must have got like below him, and he was alive, and I'm like, oh no, and I hear like a bunch of wrestling, and of course I can't see anything, and got my rifle and I had my ten mil on my binal harness, but I probably should have had that. So I kind of like got nervous and I backed out, and I just didn't know at that point what was going on. I don't know, And so I went back to the other hillside, glassing

across in the timber trying to get a look. Ended up going back around it up clear up to the top, get the truck, and I'm like, let's go back to where I shot from, reassess this whole situation. Like something's not right. I didn't know when I heard the noise if it was him, there was another bear. I was

kind of like not sure what was going on. And I go all the way back around and looked down in the meadow and that thing's laying dead right out in the middle of the meadow where I shot the first shot.

and through the jack Firs all the way down. And obviously he was hit pretty good, but I had kind of spooked him, and you know, it was on that death run, and I ended up following his tracks and he like went straight down through the jack fers and just happened to like run out of steam and like cart wheeled out into the meadow and was just like laying out in the middle of the meadow. So like

he was dead in the timber. But I spooked him and then he like ran down and like you know, ran out of steam one hundred yards down there and like lipped out in the meadow and died. But I never went back down to the meadow because I'd went clear back around on the road and you know, glass and trying to see it, and then there he was. But yeah, when I went down there, I mean I hit him. It was he was quartered away on that third shot, but it went up in there and blew

up everything. So I mean he was, you know, kind of on his last leg I think when I spooked him. But yeah, it was just such a weird deal to like go back, and I thought, honestly when I drove back and got out that it was him standing out in the meadow because you know, like running away from me, right until I realized he was dead. And then of course I couldn't believe it at that point, but then I had to go clear back around and hike all the way back down in there. So yeah, that's right,

it was a It was a good bear. He was actually just got the tooth age back yesterday, and I was a seven year old bear. For a mountain bear, that's pretty big. But he's almost six and a half feet, so I mean he's he's a big, big Montana bear.

was just the factory horned day loads. So I wanted just to shoot something with that load. But now looking back, I ways should have had like my seven som with like a Burger one to eighty or something bigger. I won't be shooting a bear with the six five anymore.

the elk weren't doing much pretty. I mean, I found some, but it was total summer mode. So I spent the first week really just trying to find a couple of the bulls that I had found during the summer, and had some close calls on a couple, and yeah, it was It was interesting. And then all of a sudden, we got a rainstorm that moved in here, and anyone that knows Montana and the gumbo mud that makes a

mess in a hurry. So I ended up having to move my trailer and get it on some gravel, and then the rain hit and I thought I'll kind of speel it out and see what happens. It was so bad, like even the gravel road turned a straight mud. I barely got my trailer out and like four wheel drive down the gravel for long ways and it was a disaster. So ended up coming I took a week off and then ended up coming back with Kylie and then she had her wife. Kylie's my wife. We call her Kyle.

forget this. And I'm like behind this tree and I start cow calling and there's like, I don't know, six eight bowls maybe coming towards us, and I bail over the backside of this hill and I'm watching her and I see horns start coming over the skyline and she's hid by this tree and this like two hundred and eighty ninety inch like he's he's like a six, but basically a huge five, and he had like a kicker on the one side and make him a six and like a small crab on the other, but he just

had huge fronts, good thirds, nice solid bowl. And the thing walks and he's like walking head on right at her, and I'm like, hmm, well, it's going to get interesting. But he's gonna dive off the backside and come looking for me, So he's gonna turn broadside. It's literally like eighteen nineteen yards from her, and I'm thinking she's gonna jar bow. Nope, so let's it walk off. And the thing walks right down to me, and I'm just like,

why didn't we shoot that? And all these other bulls are kind of coming right behind and a bunch of rag balls and stuff, and finally the bull ends up smelling us spooks runs off. I go up to her and I'm like.

we just added some to this. So anyway, so she lets this bowl walk the first morning, and of course, you know at that point then things don't go as planned after that. Oh yeah, and it was hot, and I was kind of thinking, man like you just kind of had like the bird in the hand and just let it go. And so we hunted, had some good opportunities to close calls like the next like five days. I mean we had bulls, like honest making moves. Just

things weren't going right for her. One morning she decided to do some logging and she shot like two arrows at the same bowls, shot a tree two different times on the same bowl, shot another tree in another bowl.

big bulls that came in. One bowl was just this giant, cool bull and he had a broke off right side but he had his two brows and then his other side he had kind of this club thing going on, but like like an eight on the one side, like just his giant, huge, crusty old bowl. He was just cool, and we almost killed him. And then she ended up almost getting a shot at like a three hundred and six that morning. And then we had another bowl come

by us too. There was two bulls came in. They started fighting and they were like eighty yards from her and they were both really good, solid six points and nothing happened. It's no shots, and so we walked back to our packs and it was getting warm out. She's like, I need to go back, get some lunch, regroup, take a nap. She's like, I'm feeling really tired today. And I didn't think she was going to make nine days

period and she ended up making it. So as we're walking back to our packs, we literally get to our packs, set our bows down, look up and there's like a three fifty six point like walking by like forty yards and neither of us had a bow in our hand.

mean I never laid eyes on him before. He's just a big old bowl and he only had two ca. And we've been dealing with a lot of elk and there's like thirty forty fifty seventy cows like every day, depending on how the herds are mixing, and we just had helk running all over, so it was really hard to kind of get close, get a shot and that night when I seen that elk with those two cows, I was like, this is it. We're killing this thing.

The wind was in our face. We just had to go straight at that elk and cut down in these junipers and like climb a canyon up on the other side and be perfect. We'll call them right in. She's looking at me times passing, let's sit and see what they do. All of a sudden, it's like six, She's like, I can't go over there. And I'm like, it's like twelve hundred yards, Like that's not that far. We won't be there in like twenty minutes. And she's like, no,

it's we're not going to make it by dark. You know it's getting dark at like what like seven thirty ish maybe, And she goes, I'm not going to make it.

I said, well, you're gonna make it. We're going and she looked at me and she's like And there's times like when we're hunting together, like if people knew the dynamic between the two of us, it's kind of like I'll push her because I know what's she's capable of, what she when she can do, and I know she's pregnant and everything but it's kind of like, you know, one of those things that like I know she can do it. It's just trying to like get this point

with the pregnancy and convince her. And of course I didn't want to wear her out. And she goes, well, what would the guys do. I said, well, the guy we had already been over there forty five minutes ago, that thing would have been dead. And she's like, well, I'm not one of the guys. I said, well, we call you, Kyle. I said, you're one of the guys.

I said, so we're going. So we take off. I find the convincerr and I'd bugled a couple of times at this bowl in the midst of this, and he just would have cut me off, and so I knew he was hot. We go all the way down and I'm telling you, this is like the slowest like I've ever went in on an elk in my life. And I'm literally like a couple of steps, turn around, Look see what she's doing. A couple more steps. Look she's behind me, and I'm just kind of taking my time.

We get down in this juniper stuff and we start going through this kind of creek and like climbing up this hill and it was nasty and I bugle. The bull cuts me off, and I'm like, cat, we got to shut up and just like get up to the top and cow call like once we get up there will get set up. And I thought when we popped out of the trees and be able to see him,

and we couldn't, and it was perfect. There was like fifty yards and a rise broke over and then you couldn't see the elk in the meadow and are in that kind of this flat, so it was perfect cover for us. We get set up and I got her next to this tree to my left and she's about, I don't know, forty yards from me maybe, and I get kind of down over the edge and I cow called.

The bull cuts me off, and I kind of peek my head up, and all of a sudden I see ears like the cows, the two cows just walking right at us. Here come the horns, the bulls walking right at us, and I'm like, oh, I knew this was just going to be perfect. And all of a sudden, she's ready. The cows walk right into like fifteen yards and the bulls at twenty five and just stops, rips this big old bugle, and he's like broadside to her, and I was like thinking, man, just draw back and

just shoot that thing. And the lead cow kind of churned her head looking back at the bowl, and she started to draw, and then the cow whipped its head back around and Kylie locked up. And that's one of those moments I think is like an experienced, you know, like bowhunter like, and she is. I mean, she's killed a couple with her bow now and done it, but it's like not like she's killed twenty, you know, and

so she kind of just froze. And I think if she just would have drawn back, it would have got that split second where all the boat does elk and the bowl would have just stared at her and she would have got a shot instead. She just was kind of like waiting for them to take the attention off of her. To finish drawing, had to kind of like

let her bow back down. She started shaking, and right as that happened, they take off and they start running right towards me, and they start spinning and looping out, and I start cow calling and I look over at her, like thinking she's gonna jar a bow and she didn't jar bow, and I'm like, crap, I don't know what you know to do at this point, And all of a sudden, she goes she just yells shoot, and I was like okay, And so I just ripped my bow back and the bowl I mewing like crazy, and the

bowl just spins stops quartered away, and I put my fifty pin because I'd ranged a piece of sagebrush before at forty four when they were coming in, and he ran right behind it and then stopped and ended up burying the arrow and ran off healing went like a hundred maybe hundred yards, and that was it. So wasn't like the most ideal situation, you know, with like her not getting the shot and everything. But I mean, you know it's dead.

we go check this other spot. I bugle bowl bugles, come over the top, get all set up, get down in on him. He's coming in, and then some cattle from the ranchers. There's some cattle around the area. They ended up get in the middle of the elk and busting them. They ran off, and so we take off hike all the way down this ridge. She's like, I'm done, I'm giving up, I'm over it, like it's I put in my time, and Mikay like, you know, like you got a couple hours here, like let's just go after this.

So we all down Popa finally talk her into it again, go over this hill and I end up calling this bull in and he runs on a dead run, and her being pregnant got her. If she wasn't pregnant, she

would have killed this bowl like instantly. And he comes running around this hill head on to her at like five yards and it's like a three forty seven by seven, like just big bowl, almost like the one that I killed the night before, and comes around sees her and she couldn't turn her feet quick enough because she was watching her feet being pregnant, she didn't want to fall over, and so she didn't want to trip, and I totally understand that the bull runs down. I stop him at

forty and broadside. She drew a bow back and then he kind of moved. And then right as all that happened, the sun was like right there coming over the hill, and she like looked through her peep and I stopped. And when he ran forward and he stopped, I stopped him again. She shot, and she said that the sun like kind of came right in her peep, and anyway, she d up hitting that bowl ducked, but she hit it right in a backstrap and he ran off. And this is like the kind of the craziest thing that

I've seen in a while. That bowl literally had his arrow or her arrow was sticking out of his back. And I called him back into like fifty and then he turned around and went down. There was another bowl with some cows like I stand up spoting like three quarters of a mile away. That bowl ran all the way down there and started fighting that other bowl with an arrow sticking out of its back and was trying to just take those cows. He was so rutted up

didn't even care. But we should have killed two big sevens in like twelve hours.

But I mean it's it's a nice buck. But yeah, I mean we saw some a lot of deer, some good deer, but it wasn't definitely wasn't what I would, you know, say, like this is stellar hunting, you know, I mean we're you know, like you would have had We definitely need to make some changes here, and I know that there are some changes coming down the pipe in Montana where they're talking about moving deer season meal deer season, I guess like into October and changing that.

And you can't really hunt the rut anymore, which I think, you know, I'd be okay for that, but I know there a lot of people wouldn't be.

have incredible meal they're hunting again. So I mean, to me, it's worth it, you know, being a steward and a sportsman, I don't I don't mind kind of you know, putting things back here and there to to to better the herd. For sure.

the amount of tags over there. A lot of people don't see it this way, but it's like, man, even if you only got to hunt them every two three years, but you know, you could go out and like have a chance a like a nice you know, mature big buck and you know one hundred and seventy inch plus deer. I mean, I would be all for that, but I know a lot of people think that you're just taking opportunity away and they don't get a hunt. And it

eastern Montana. You know, it's easier deer hunting, you know, than other places than climbing the mountains in western Montana. So I understand it, but I don't know.

you know, we're way down. So in my mind, it's like, man, it's a it's a lot of effort, you know, for a lot of different people to get to that part of the world, whether you're driving across states or if you're a resident, even driving across that state to go over there and have the opportunity to hunt something like that that you're just probably not interested in taking home

with you. You know, maybe it, you know, maybe it's okay to you know, do it every other year, every third year to where there's the animals to come back.

invested so much. And I get that one hundred percent, but it's also I mean, you could have a chance to come over here, and especially as a non resident now you're probably only going to come hunt Montana every two three years, and so it's like at that point if you could limit you know, some of the hunting and change things for a little bit, man Like, wouldn't you want to come here from an out of state perspective?

And you're like, man, I went to Montana and shot a nice, big, solid four point buck or you know some big mature deer. I mean, I don't know, I mean I guess it just depends what you're after. I know, we're all at different experiences and you know, some of them like I'm okay eating my tag. You know, it's like I don't really care, Like I want to shoot a nice mature tear just like Washington. You know, it's like white tails and stuff like that. Like I didn't

shoot one. I had one buck in particular I was after and I'm okay, Like I ended up getting the weather got the best of me and snowed out because I was in a rental truck and stuff. But it is what it is.

adding to the problem. It's like, well, you know, take my selfish wants out and be like, okay, you know, maybe I don't have to you know, be you know, hunt as much, or you know, I could pass up or I give up a little season, or give up a little this or that to to have a better experience when I do get to go, so yep, but hey, I want to switch gears here a little bit, and it's time for the pendle and whiskey Q and A.

It's not just poured, it's earned. And I keep getting this question sliding into my dms on Instagram and and I'm sure you probably get them to what's your workout routine? No, just kidding. On Instagram, I'm listed as a fitness model, yes, but I'm pretty sure nobody's going to ask me for my workout routine. But the question is, and I've got this one for years, how do I get into the hunting industry? What's your take on that?

like make your career out of that. So it's something you want to do for the next thirty years and retire, you know. So I guess let's kind of like dive down the one rabbit hole. Because I started my business almost fourteen years ago and maybe longer somewhere in that ballpark. I was doing stuff before that, but officially with my business.

But yeah, you know, it was kind of like I wanted to be in the industry because I saw that and I thought, oh man, all these guys get to go hunt for a living and they're going on all these big extravagant hunts, all this free gear, free bows and you know sites and all you name it, you know, out calls like whatever. It was like, that's kind of how I perceived it, I guess, you know, in the beginning.

And the one thing that I will say all these years later down the road, yeah, I work way more now than I probably would if I just worked a nine to five somewhere and hunts to clock and just went and decided to go and you know, hunt and enjoy my time hunting. Are there perks of being in

the industry? Yeah? Sure, I mean there's times you might get a you know, call and get a free bow or get this or you know, some free gear here and there, but that also comes at a cost because you know, it's like one of those things that now those companies generally want something in return, and so you go on a hunt or go to the archery range or you're at home, and you know you have to go and provide and produce this content for them because they want that in return to help promote the product.

So now you've just added another layer of work to your career in the hunting industry per se. And so you really can stack it up in a hurry to where you're not just hunting. I mean, how many times have we been in the woods and you know it's like, oh, hey, we got to get that this shot for so and so, we got to hold on, we got to get this video for them, we got to do this. And it's like you spend a lot more time working than necessarily not.

But I think if you want to get in the hunting industry and like you just wanted to be like a part of it, there's I've met so many great people. I mean obviously yourself and I mean, you know you've been one of my best friendships, you know, for years. And it's like there's a lot of good people that we've met, you know, and Jason and you know, Phelps

and I mean, Chris Pass going. I mean, we could go down the list and start naming people, but it's like so many great people in different states, and you know that we all come together and I feel like we go to these shows and we don't always get to see each other throughout the year, and we end up going to the Hunt Expo in Salt Lake or like these other shows just to like get in one room together to be able to go and you know,

have a good time, have dinner together. But that side the hunting industry, it's like, I don't know, are people

wanting to be in it for the friendships. Are they wanting to be in it because they think that they just get it's like this glamorous thing that they get a hunt all the time and get all this free stuff because I mean we still pay for our own stuff at times, so you know, it's like not a not just this gravy train of I want to be in it, but if you do it for the right reasons, I mean, there's definitely some good to come from it.

I really really like hunting, and I want to do it for a living. So you have to like like quantify like that's a very okay, that's like the very entry level like thought process, like I really love it, I want to do it for a living. Well, you have to like consider like how is how is someone going to pay you for you to go hunting? And because you love hunting, Like it's kind of a funny loaded question. It's like you have to like look beyond that, like, well, yeah,

we all love hunting. I mean there's not a single person that goes hunting consistently that doesn't love hunting. So you have to kind of figure out like, Okay, well, what is it that I can bring to the table

to get paid for or get compensated for. I think people look, they I think they watch outdoor TV a lot, you know, and they'll they'll watch all these hunting TV shows and you know, all the different characters and and they're like, oh, yeah, you know that those guys just man, they have so much fun and they go kill stuff, and you know, they wrap all these brands and stuff. But like you said, you know, you get all this gear or sponsors or stuff. You have deliverables, right, you

have you know XYZ. You have to provide photos, you have to provide content, you have to provide you have to use their stuff. Like what if you make a commitment and you're like, ah, yeah, I'm gonna use your stuff and you start using it, You're like, oh, this is trash. I hate this x y Z fabric, soften or whatever you know that you're trying to use for your hunt. You're like, oh, but you're locked in. You said you'd do it. You have to do it when

you're hunting. That kind of that takes away. It's like, Okay, now it's a job. Right, So, I mean there's a lot of things to think about there.

football player, like professional like whatever. It's like, you know, when you're smaller, you start and you know there's little league and like all these things, and into high school and then college ball, like in the pot starts getting smaller and smaller and smaller and pretty quick to actually make it to the major league. You know, it's like there's only a tiny percentage that do it. And it's one of those things that the people that have these

TV shows and do that. It's like there's so many people out there with cameras now going around the woods filming their hunts and doing things that the ones that truly get paid. I mean, it is like this little fraction that even receive any income. And so at that point, it's like you better enjoy hunting because you love to hunt. And if you're okay with just doing some content and trading for a free bo or you know, backpack or

like whatever, all these companies now too. And I hear this a lot because I work with a lot of them, is that they absolutely get bombarded with all these people now like hey, I'll give you photos like I'll make I'll give you some video content. Well, the problem is is the more and more people that do that, and now it makes it harder and harder and harder for anyone to get any money because they're giving away their money and product to so many people in return for content.

Now they don't have any money left to like pay. So it's like if you think that you're going to come in and just all make the most killer videos and we'll do this whole series and do all this stuff, and you're gonna, you know, I want one hundred thousand dollars check. And it's like, I mean those that's so

like far fetched to even kind of think that. And I'm not saying that to like squash people's dreams and this and that, and because I mean it's like I've been there one day too, and I think I've lived it,

and it's like I just realized that. You know. It's like if you have a skill set or something that you can do, like myself with like designing and building websites and those type of things where it's like, but I'm actually like working with the companies to try to help them make money and progress and do their thing, but that I'm not making money even though people think I'm in the hunting industry. I am, but it's like

I'm helping companies. Like, you know, I could do the same thing if it was you know, someone selling dog food, you know, and like helping them do that. It's the same thing. So it's like you almost want to go into it and be like, hey, I want to go work for a company like a phelps you know, like

I'm just you know, throwing you out for example. It's like go work and learn what they do, and maybe the perk is maybe I get to go on an ail cunt this year and like go spend time or go do this, and like you kind of get rewarded in different ways, you know. So I guess it just kind of depends, like you know, what what you're what you're wanting out of it to and what you want to achieve.

the bat. So then you go after sponsors, so the sponsors. Basically, the the the platform eats up all the money from your sponsors. So and that's why I think there's a lot of these like like literal TV personalities, they kind of have some money already, right, They're not depending on sponsors paying their their their their money to buy food and electricity and pay their cell phone bill. Right, they actually have money already somehow, maybe from working hard at

in a completely unrelated industry. Maybe they you know, had some old money in the family whatever. A lot of I think a lot of those folks, you know, you know, they've found a way to do it, but it takes a ton of money. So outdoor industry. But then you look at YouTube, so you're like, oh, well, it doesn't cost me anything, and YouTube will pay me. People have a huge misconception of what how much money you can make off of YouTube videos. You get you get paid

by YouTube per thousand views on your video. Okay, so every thousand views you get paid. Now, if you're doing hair and makeup and maybe some cooking that has nothing to do with hunting, that just kind of domestic life. Those kind of people, they'll make anywhere from five dollars per one thousand views to seven or eight dollars, depending on on what advertisers will pay. How do how does YouTube pay well that people put that put ads that the little commercials on YouTube, that's who pays them. So

it's all a bid. Now nobody really knows exactly how it works, but basically these advertisers bid and they say, we'll pay this much for this for this kind of programming. We'll pay this much for our ad to be there. So, you know, I think that what you get paid is always fluctuated. Now, I have some friends that have a really popular outdoor hunting channel. He was showing me behind the scenes on how much they were getting paid. They

got paid thirty three cents per one thousand views. Thirty three cents per one thousand views, So put that in your pipe and smoke it. I mean, that's that's that's nothing. I mean when you consider that the production costs. You have to pay a camera man, you have to buy tags, you have to pay for fuel, you have to buy your food. I mean, you can spend ten thousand dollars if you have to pay a bona fide camera person,

between camera permit, everything you're gonna spend. You could spend up to ten thousand dollars just for a non resident hunt somewhere. So for those thirty three cents per one thousand, man, you better have a few million people watch your videos, right, yeah, so on some of mine, I'll be transparent. On my Bugler YouTube, I think I've gotten around three to four dollars per one thousand. Now they're not they're not viral videos, right.

You know, I don't have a million people watch my stuff, and I haven't put any real new content on there in quite some time. But the residuals, the residual stuff that's on there, I get a couple hundred bucks a year basically pay aid from YouTube. So not a lot of money, not, I mean, you can't even buy a non resident tag anywhere for that kind of money. So people kind of think they have this misconception you're gonna make a lot of money if you get in the

industry and start cranking out content right away. One of the things I like to recommend is, and you kind of you kind of alluded to this a little bit on on your on your job and your craft, is become an expert. Right. I don't care if you're talking to what kind of industry you're in. I don't care if it's automotive whatever. Become an expert and you will find an opportunity. Right. So, for instance, I am really good with el calls. I've been elk hunting for thirty

five years. The first four years I literally hunted every single day of September the whole every year I was in high school. By the time I graduated high school, I had more elk hunting time in the most adults have in a lifetime. Right. And then it just compounds from there. Right. So I've I feel like, I don't want to try to come off conceited, but I feel like I'm a subject matter expert on elk hunting to a certain degree. Do I learn stuff every year. Absolutely,

I'm always learning more. But I have a lot of reps and I have and I'm pretty damn good at using an ELK call. Now I found a spot. I work for an ELK calling company. There's there's my niche. There's my niche. Now, if you're trying to be like, okay, cool, well I'm going to be an expert, well you have to look at the industry and think, okay, where are the gaps within that industry? Okay, we have subject matter experts on bows, on shooting, our archery, on broad hands,

on arrows, whatever it may be. There are some gaps there. Of course, that's the kind of thing that you need to, you know, to look at. Now. It can't be it can't be. It can't be something forced. You can't be saying well, I'm gonna do this just because I want to all thes and the likes. You literally have to like. You have to be passionate about it. You have to be one hundred percent real. And I think you know that's why I've done well because I I live and

breathe this. Whether I had a job working for a call company or not, I've lived and breathed elk hunting my entire life. Back when I had, you know, maybe a week a year to hunt, I used that week. If I had weekends hunt, I used that week. I mean, I was always elk hunting and enjoying it. So I didn't really set out to like get an industry job in my life. I didn't say, like, someday, I'm gonna

get a job in the industry. No. I just worked hard at my craft because I loved it, and one day I got noticed and things start, doors start opening up, and I think you have to really look at it that way. But it's not easy. You can't just say, cool, well, I'm gonna learn how to use an up bugle. I can bugle really good. I'm gonna go get a for a call company tomorrow or next year. Man, I mean, you're gonna have to work your ass off. You have to work your ass off to get to that point

of being an expert. And then once you become an expert, you're going to have to continue to work your ass off.

idea of archery. And you know, I still to this day, like I have my own little pro shop, like in my gun room in my house because i love working on my own stuff and I'm super passionate about it. And that's I think one thing for me that like even I don't portray to the outside world, but is like my love for like tinkering and like the little things that go on behind the scenes. And I'm such a nerd when it comes to that stuff and tuning my bows and like arrows and like doing all that.

But it's something that like I've kind of kept close to me because I enjoy it so much that it's like the one thing where I'm like, oh yeah, like I do this and I go out and I'll mess around with my bow and my gun room and like whatever, because it's like my like little hobby like my passion.

On the side, I could talk I could go to any of these shows, you know, and talk archery all day long, you know, or guns like anything, but it's like the archery side, Like I could go and do that all day because I love it, like outside of just hunting. Obviously I love to hunt. But then you know, it's like like my business. You know, I was driven to, you know, figure out I wanted to build websites and taught myself how to do that long time ago and

design work and all that. Obviously went to college and all that, but you know, it was kind of one of those things that I was so driven I want my thing, Like I wanted to own my own business so bad, and it was like didn't even really correlate to hunting at that time. It was like I wanted to. I was driven because I wanted to be so good at like designing or building websites or marketing and like

doing stuff like that and like helping companies grow. It just like went to the hunting industry because I had a lot of passionate about it and there at that time, you know, I mean there still is, but it was like there was that hole that niche and I found my niche and you know, did it and went for it, and you know, here I am today. But it was like, if you find something that you're passionate about, you can kind of adapt and do that and keep growing, you know,

with your knowledge and everything else is times change. That's where you know, I think you'll do good and you know, succeed. So yeah, there's a lot of ways to get in the industry if you just want to be in it, if you just want to go work for a company and go to these trade shows. And you know, I feel like some of the shows like the Hunt Expo and you know, Shot Show and ATA and some of these other shows and Sheep Show and all these and I feel like people see it on social media and

it's like a fomo thing. You know, they're like, oh man, there's everyone, like all these hunters are there and they're doing this and having a good time together. And I almost feel like like you create this fomo like people feel like they're missing out and they want to be a part of it, and they feel like they have to be in the industry just to like go and enjoy and like do that. And like I said, it is a lot of fun and like, you know, we have a good time in talking to people and meeting

people and you know everything. But yeah, I mean you can go do all that, go work for a company and just enjoy and like have that be one of the purposes of your job and love life, you know.

of video work, you can do that. Like there's so much that you have to perfect and be good at and be an expert on to make this. So you don't just be like, oh yeah, well I'm gonna learn how to I'm gonna be an expert at blown an ELK bugle. Well people don't know, like, okay, well my job not only do I blowing out ELK bugle pretty good, and I'm really good at talking to people about ELK calls. I mean that's just that's like probably the smallest part of my job. We film these hunts every fall. Now

I may not film them, but I'm editing them. So I have to be an expert at using Adobe Premier or whatever kind of platform you want to use to to edit your films with. Oh, there's pictures to edit. Oh, I have to edit those two. Oh, John and I. You and I work together on designing packaging, So I'm

not I don't have any skills. I can draw something out on a cocktail napkin, but I can say, all right, I want it to look like this, and then we have to have a good enough report to work together to find what works, what will work from your standpoint in ours social medium. Uh. Management, I've got to do all of that product product development, you know, and testing like it's. It goes way beyond just like yeah, cool, it sounds good, We'll do it like it's so there's

so much to it, so it's like an onion. You kind of pull it back and it's like you find one more layer that you have to be good at something written word, you know, Now, I'm on a podcast, so you know, I have to be able to talk about stuff with guests and find people that are interesting to talk to. So it just seems to never end. But those things are out there. There's ad those opportunities out there, but it's not just going to fall into

your lap overnight. And honestly, you look at like industry jobs, you might look at it this way. Some of the probably the highest paid people into the hunting industry are people at a corporate level, you know, at upper management, who have a degree, They went to college, they worked,

and they started out and they worked somewhere else. They probably didn't even start out in the hunting industry and finally got into the hunting industry because they like the outdoors or they like hunting, and then they spent some time there with some successful track records and they climb the corporate letter. Now they hold really good jobs with really secure salaries in some big companies. You know, those

are those are jobs. Those are the kind of jobs you know a lot of people probably would like to have if they had skill set. Uh, manufacturing jobs, you know, whether you're you know, a machinist or a whatever, whatever kind of you know, stuff that you could can can manufacture. Maybe even if you're just packaging things. I mean, companies have to take it from the idea to packaging to putting it into a box and shipping it. You know, maybe it maybe it's e commerce, you know, maybe you're

you're really good at that kind of stuff. You can you can make a heck a good heck of a good living in the outdoor industry, in the e commerce side, or like you a designer, uh, photographer, film production, basically any kind of a you look at any kind of a normal business in any industry, those those businesses have the same support structure as everything in the hunting industry.

So you know, maybe maybe you want to work for a hunting company because you love it, but you have a skill set in accounting or what or whatever it is, there's a spot for you.

are out there too, you know. And some of the perks that some of these people get it seems like they get more time off and all this, and I'm over here just slaving away, killing myself with my own business. But you know, it's like people have great opportunities, you know,

and they're gonna go do things. And maybe you know, some of these people in two you know, it's like maybe they're they're they want to be in the hunting industry because they idolize some people and it's like they maybe they just want to meet them and do that, and you know, whatever, whatever it is, it's like this, it is a great industry to be in, and you

will make awesome friendships. And regardless of what level you are at a company, if you went and work somewhere or doing it on your own or whatever you're doing, there are you know, some really great people. And I think that's like that in any industry, you know, snowboarding, you know, golf, whatever you your passion is, you're going

to meet the people and like minded people. We just all happen to really like hunting and spend a lot of time doing it as much as we can outside of working, you know, And I think that's kind of what it boils down to. But if you want to be in the industry, I mean, find your niche, that something you're good at, and then figure out how you want to apply it.

and got to know him. Just awesome dude, great hunter, good guy, has a great nine to five job, but he wanted to he wanted to kind of be part of the hunting industry, you know, because he enjoyed the people and and you know, and every year Cody comes and helps us out at the Phelips booth, at at the trade show, at at the Honeyex bo in Salt Lake, and we've built an awesome friendship with him. He went el hunting with me last fall just loved the guy.

But you know it's it all starts somewhere, you know. So there's a lot of companies they they need those kind of help or you know at trade shows, you know, they get they get to know somebody there. You know, maybe they come able to come back the next year or to the next show work as an ambassador. Maybe they can even just maybe they'll even get paid. You just never know. There's opportunities to get your foot in the door. And uh and if you're a good person and disguise the limit.

And do all that kind of a final thought on that, you know, and keep doing your career that you're doing now, you know, and and kind of you know, do this as a side hustle, you know, like it's your second job, you know, if you will and start filming and doing things, and you know, maybe maybe you just want to be recognized by some of these companies or get some gear.

Maybe that's like we kind of mentioned, like that's your thing and that if that's your thought of being in the industry, just do it then, like no one, you know, no one's holding you back but yourself. So it's like, go out and achieve it. And all great things come with a lot of hard work. So put in the hours and punch the time clock and you'll get there.

enjoy it. Like now, going through my al cut from this fall, I've been saying a few beadwords and it's been a grind. But when you have a good hunt and you can edit that thing up and put it out there, and just like I find it very satisfying, you know, it's it's it's really it's really fun. So it has to be something you enjoy and it has to be, you know, something you're passionate about. So well, thanks man.

I really appreciate you coming on as always. We haven't had you on here for a while, but appreciate it and look forward to your your hunting season twenty twenty five. I always get to live vicariously through you in Montana because I probably won't draw the Montana deck again this year, but I always enjoy watching you and your wife's adventures over there.

name it. You know it's at her fingertips. I mean, there's no excuse to not to get out and take your kids hunting with you and bet in the woods exactly.

one in her arms, you know, over the elk. So I think that would be kind of just a cool, you know, like full circle thing, and that's kind of my goal.