Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance. Today, we're in the middle of white tail week here at me Eaither and we're going to dive deep into one of the most popular hunting topics in North America, hunting the white tail deer. Today I brought on a special guest from North Idaho who pretty much has these big white tails dialed, but it may be a little different than the Midwest tactics that you've heard of. Troy Pottinger. Welcome to the Shoy.
Troy, Hey, Jason, thanks for having me. I appreciate you guys bringing me on.
Yeah, we're going to talk about everything from the fundamentals to some of your advanced tactics if you're willing to share them. But how's your season been so far? I know you've been out chasing them, you you know, in our in our conversation last night, you showed a couple of pictures of some big ones you're after. So how's it been so far on this this what would be considered the early season.
That's been tough. It's a grind always in the early season when you're hunting in true back country mountain white tails like these guys are the bucks I'm hunting, are twenty miles from any agriculture, and they're up at higher elevation, so they're true mountain deer. And I hunt northern Idaho in eastern Washington early, So I bounce back and forth depending upon I pick out a specific target buck in every in each state, and then I try to go
kill that buck. So I would say that it has been a it's been it's been pretty tough with the heat and just getting the buck I want to kill, to get up and move in the daylight without him knowing I'm around, Like I got to be real close to his bed.
Yeah, And and we'll jump into that more in the main discussion, because I'm really curious, you know, when we go to you know, to Kansas or wherever we white till hunt, you know that distance from bed to feed and if you can catch them on the ground, you know, in the daylight, versus like what your some of your strategy and how that plays out in the mountains and how close you have to be. So I'm gonna we're
gonna get to those in a little bit. We're gonna start every episode like we normally do with the Pendleton Whiskeys, Q and A. These are just listener questions that we get a lot that I feel are better answered by our expert guests. I'm gonna kind of throw three questions at you here, Troy, and see what you what you
think of these and we can take these questions. You can email them to us at CTD at phelpsgame Calls dot com, or you can send them to them to us on social which is how we get the majority of these. So, in your opinion, how does moon phase impact white tailed deer movement and do you as a hunter adjust your strategy for it?
Well, it does impact movement, but I don't think it's as impactful as say weather conditions are wind direction for movement. And again I'm hunting that old age structure out here, five six seven year old bucks, so they're kind of a different animal within themselves. Do I pay attention to the moon phase? Yeah? Do I think it trumps weather and fronts and pressure? I don't think so.
So, so you will pay attention to it? And what does what do you typically see what that moon phase? You Let's say we're we're going into a full moon, which seems you know from from the elk hunting side kind of limit movement pushes movement more into the night. Is that kind of the same with white tails? Are you just seeing later movement they're in their beds earlier? What does that typically do to a white tail negatively? How does it negatively impact the hunt?
Yeah? You know, I grew up hunting elk my whole life too, embars and everything up here in North Idaho. The uh, the big moon at night, the big light at night always seems to get the deer more active at night. In my opinion, I like those dark, dark moon nights. I usually see a little more daylight movement, but it's usually in conjunction with the right weather conditions and pressures too.
Gotcha. Okay, the second question, what are the key differences in hunting strategies between like your early season, because I know you're hunting, you know, we're we're in early September now, and then i've you know, seen that you you know, you're killing some giant bucks, you know, into the middle of December. At times, it seems like, so how do you what are those difference in hunting strategies? How do you start to change? Are you hunting the same stands
from start to finish? Or do you have multiple cams out and you're kind of moving down elevation with deer the rut. You know, kind of if you can, you know, give us your your your play on how those strategies change.
Well, that's a huge topic and you know, just just to be you know, to kind of hit on the you know, the right now type white tael stuff. It's extremely difficult because they are at the top of their game. They have no distractions. The white tails that I'm hunting live in heavy predation. Had a big wolf on my trail camera last night after I checked it after I left, So right now and I've killed you know, I've killed five big white tails in the month of September August
thirtieth through September. In my lifetime, I've killed five of my best white tails with a boat. But that's five out of over forty. So this time of the year, they're at the top of the game. They have no distractions. They do two things. They eat and drink and I'll put that together. They eat and drink and they survive
predators and then they dodge. They dodge you know, the human intrusion from elk season and the guys that are hunting white tails two so this time of the year, I have to be very close to their betting zone. These mountain bucks don't bet in the same bed every day they'd be they turn into wolf shit if they were, so they move around. I have to stay really tight, but a really tight grip the best I can on them with some cameras and obviously any type of observation,
and I put a ton of time into it. But if I don't have a tight grip and I don't set up close to them, and I have a mobiles, I have mobile set I have mobile gear setups, and people that don't know me, I work for Lone Wolf Custom Gear and White Tail Addictions and have for years, so I have some permanent setups over big scrapes. But I also have my mobile setups to move at any moment, so I'm always set up or I'm always prepared to
move when I need to. And I have to move with those early season bucks where their preferred betting is. And if I'm not tight to their betting, I'll never find them because in the mountains they have feed in every direction and they have a lot of water, so it's not like they're traveling to a destination food source on an alfalfa field.
Yep, yeah, and staying tight to their bed. How do you keep track of that, Troy? Are you using cams? Are you just making educated guests? Are assumptions like I haven't seen him here in a couple of days. I think he's moved here, Like, how are you making those? How are you determining when you think he's changed beds or where's bed maybe at that time?
That's good question. I you know, I'm a huge proponent and I've done it for thirty plus years. White tail deer, all white tail deer, especially these mountain bucks, because there's a low deer density of bucks, and does they all adhere to social community scrapes year around, They check liking
branches and they address scrapes year round. And most people that don't have an in depth knowledge of white tail behavior probably wouldn't believe that unless they looked at all my years and years of videos of them do it from year round. So everything that I do is based around big scrapes that are in the mountains and in the early season, it's all about the licking branch and
them communicating. So I position myself in locations where those scrapes show me that a mature buck to say I want to kill that he's frequenting and if I can get him to frequent in in the daylight, I know in the early season he's not far from me. So then I take a look at the big picture I've walked, you know. I do a ton of scouting, a ton
of walking. I know the country that he's living in, and I base his location and his bedding zone on the most preferred security cover habitat for him that's adjacent to these big community hubs that I get him on, and then the wind will always steer him daily in the thermals and put him in his bed. So I find these betting zones based on how the wind works in those drainages and how the thermals work with it, and it positions those bucks to help them survive all
the predators and the hunters. You know, I elk do the same thing. Elk use those thermals and hubs and winds to position themselves to survive and be you know, and to exist into bed so they're never laying in the same exact bed. But I'll get a buck that will bed in a zone an area, and I'll target that area. And then in this early season, I worked really hard to get him to show up at my scrapes, and the buck I'm trying to kill right now is
hitting my liking branches and scrapes. He has been since April, gotcha.
So he's in been in that same area once the snow melt.
He's in that draank. Yeah, he's in the drainage. The drainage is big. I've got multiple sites set up for him, and he moves around with predation. As soon as the predators show up, the lions and the wolves, as soon as they show up, he bounces. So it is a very difficult task at hand compared to when I hunt Oklahoma or Ohio or places where the destination food is there, the small wood lot is there, they're congregated. Mountain deer
are not congregated. They can go one hundred miles in any direction they want and survive.
Yeah, I mean, that's that's awesome information. And I've always just been curious, you know, on such a big, vast landscape. But it sounds like you use you know, some licking branches and some stuff like that where you know he's been there and you know he's in the area. That's great. Tip Troy.
Well, the the whitetails that I kill usually grow up on my scrapes for three to four years, and I just condition them there, meaning I watched them grow from two and a half and I don't hunt them till they're five or six. So I play a long game with big white tails, and if they can survive, then I jump into the game with them when they're five and six. But I've got years of history with them, if you will.
Yeah, so you've got them pattern before you ever really want to hunt them. Yes, it's to some degree, I mean, and their patterns made. I'm sure their patterns changes. They get a little smarter, but at least there's like a base pattern you can go off of.
And absolutely they tighten everything up as they get older and smarter, they make less mistakes. The buck i'm hunt right now got shot through the hips last year by a rifle hunter. Had a hole in both hips. Can't believe he survived it, but he was a four and a half year old and I left him alone last year because I knew he'd be tremendous this year, and sure enough, he shows up in the spring with a hole in both hips, and I was thinking, I can't
believe this deer survived that. But on the flip side of that, that deer acts five years older than he did last year at four and a half. He acts totally different now because of that.
Yeah, yeah, changed them around that. Yeah, that's interesting, interesting data point to you know, why is he probably have been smart as a five year old, but you know, he's acting like a seven to eight year old deer just you know WHI is the world.
Yeah, he's acting like he's a straight up crackhead in April May and juke, like he's on full alert when he walks around. On a ton of videos so that I can actually observe and watch these bucks. So on my trail cameras, I run long video on purpose at these scrapes and just watching his demeanor and how he searches for a trail camera and how he acts different walking in than all the other deer and all the other deer mountaineer too, and they're very careful. But he's
going to be a tough nut to crack. But that's what I love. I mean, that's that's where I'm at in my in my life with white tails is I like hunting the most mature, smartest, best white tail I can find in the mountains because they teach me so much. And the challenge is it's hard for me to even explain unless you do it. No.
Yeah, it's like, you know, it's like the video game you played as a kid. It was easy to beat it on like the beginner level, but you want to go beat the game one expert and you know, advance expert, Like you want to be able to play the game at the highest level and still win. And I respect the heck out of that. And you know, certain hunts we do that, and you know, certain hunts we're just
out there trying to put meat in the freezer. But I I relate to it a little bit, like it's sometimes fun and I'm you know, as I'm getting older and less concerned about notching every tag, it's fun to play the game, you know, at that higher level for sure.
Yeah, you know, I've been at this a long time. I'll be fifty five this year. I absolutely love for the young hunters to go get a ton of experience and a lot of reps. Get your reps, get your kills, don't be so darn picky, enjoy the heck out of it. I'm just at a place now where I cherish and love that challenge of an old mountain whitetail. And that's what that's what trips my trigger at my at where I'm at with white tails today.
Yep, yep. Have you have you seen? I mean, we always talk about the decline and you know, the good old days. Have you have those mountain white tails had the nosedive that that, you know, all the other ungulates around here have have shown. Are you seeing less and less big ones? Is it tougher and tougher to dig an old krusty you know, buck out of the mountains than it was twenty years ago?
Absolutely? You know. I cut my teeth on mountain white tails in the eighties. And if I you know, everybody can say this, but if I knew back then what I know now, I would have felt like I was in Iowa in the eighties. I mean, we had low human population up here in North Idaho. We had nobody bowl hunting mountain white tails and getting on them and pushing them. I just was young and learning about it. Nobody was doing it, and I when I dove into
it when I was young. I actually got laughed at by the local boys in Saint Mary's, Idaho, behind the scenes, like you're crazy, You're gonna go hunt deer with a bow in the mountains or you kidding? And that was always my motivation. I always wanted to. I wanted to hunt. I didn't want to I didn't want to just kill and shoot stuff. I wanted to, like get intimate with proximity of killing an old whitetail, fooling him at say,
under twenty yards with a bow and arrow. So I dove into that young And looking back now, the numbers of mature bucks back then compared to when they opened up a two bucks season in North Idaho and six or five and the population boom into Idaho and everybody's a hunter now and every here at the bottom line is it's a numbers game. All tons of young bucks get killed now we have we sell out all of our tags every year. People come from all over out of state to hunt. And it's fine, I mean, it
is what it is. We're we're killing a lot more younger deer now than when I was growing up, because there just sherely wasn't the amount of hunters hunting the younger deer, if you will, so, so the age structure is totally changed. And yeah, i'd say I work compared to finding a mature buck, say in the eighties and nineties,
I say I put in one hundred percent. I put in ten times more work and travel ten times the distance, says in the And I'm hunting public land for service minimum of multiple of ten times the distances and travel and effort to find an old mature buck.
Yes, now that's you know, you'd almost I guess predators and hunting pressure and everything you just mentioned. You think there might be some that are somewhat immune to the changes because they are tough to find, tough to see. But it sounds like, you know, it's still still affecting them. And I bet you you wish you knew it. You you know, thirty years ago, you wish you knew what you know now when you were back there in those heydays and had that same knowledge base.
I used to be able to go into any drainage in the late eighties, early nineties and find a mature buck, find a five year old. You can't do it now. And of course you know we're not talking. We haven't even talked about the predators, the wolves. I hunt Washington and Idaho, and I've lived through all the years of
the wolf introduction in both states, seen it all. The impact on the white tails the most in the elk is as we all know, and I don't want to go down that rabbit hole and here has definitely added a ton of pressure and killing to the younger deer in the elk.
Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's drastic, you know, everywhere. And you know, we've got a whole different issue over here. But wolves are starting to you know, on the east side of Washington for sure, and then now we've got like hoof raw on the west side, and it's just
you know, these these uh you know, sun unmountable. Un there's just that the animals don't have a chance right now with the hoof rock, with wolves, with increased predators are taking away our bear seasons are cougar seasons, and like you said, you don't want to go down down those rabbit holes. But there's a lot working against us right now. It seems like, hey.
Man, I'm right, I'm exact. I mean, couldn't agree more. We're saying the same thing. Yep.
Okay, So my last question and then we'll jump into our conversation. You know, you're up in the high mountains, there are elk hunters running around, maybe other deer hunters. How does pressure from other hunters affect your deer behavior and how have you had to adapt or how do you deal with if your deer is in a pressured area?
Yeah? Why tell him after if he gets pressured by a human, He's been in the game a long time, he understands it, he moves, he adjusts, and he has the freedom. He has the freedom to move in vast country to wherever he wants to. I've had multiple years where I've killed a buck five miles away on a map, three to five miles away on a map from where I was hunt even early season. It just happens a lot. And to counter that, I put a lot of work into finding those hard to find. But every now and
then quiet pocket areas, if you will. That usually equates to two things or either right drive right by areas in the mountains or hard hard work to get to, and most guys won't expend the effort to get there to find those pockets and genetic pools of bucks that aren't getting disturbed quite as much by humans. They're still getting all the predator pressure and all the predators. No matter, I can't do anything about the predators. But as far as getting away from humans, I just try to go
that extra mile all the time. And I'm willing to do what I don't think most people are willing to do for a white tail, to go try to hunt him, and you know, great distances, long drives, long hikes, just everything that I can do to find a little bit of peace and quiet. Yes in the mountains.
Yeah, so you'll you will move away from that heavily pressured areas. Or as you're setting your season up and you're coming up with your target deer, will you like, Man, that deer is great, I'm want to go hunt them. But then you start to think like, oh, it's also a popular elk hunting area or popular vacation area. Will you go away from him or will you try to
hunt him? On those terms of this deer may be a little more difficult, but I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna go give it a try, because it's a deer I want to kill.
To dare I want to kill, and if he's daylight and I don't care where he's at, I'll go try to kill him. But I also have I also try to set myself up with multiple options, you know, two to five bucks a year that are great bucks, so that I can play the game of Okay, there's gonna be a ton of elk pressure here but over here, and I jump the border in both states, and I play the game with the open and closed season dates too, to try to find where an old buck can have
a little bit of peace and quiet from humans. And I'll go target where I believe I'm in the game with a daylight buck that I want to kill more than just wasting my time in an area where yeah, my buck's on camera, but he's only at night and there's a lot of guys out cutting the ridges an area, Yeah, I'll bounce. But if that old buck's daylight and then showing me he's killable, I don't care where he's at, I'll hunting.
Yeah. So thanks Troy for answering those questions from our listeners. Once again, you have questions for me or my guests, email them to us at CTD at Phelpsgame Calls dot com or send us a message on social media and
we'll do our best to get them on here. So now I'm gonna kind of jump into to our conversation some of the questions I maybe have for you, and I don't know if you're an open book Troy or some of these things you might want to keep close to your chest, but uh, let's kind of kick things off with the basics for those new to white tail hunting, which I'm fairly new to white to hunting, and don't
hate me for this. I always joked with everybody, you know, when you see Midwest white till hunting, I'm like, I'm gonna do that when I'm seventy, when I can't meal your hunt, when I can't elk hunt anymore, I'm gonna go white tail hunt. You're obviously doing it in the same dang places that I'm el cutting, So, uh, it's not as easy as I made it sound in my uh you know, white tail hunt when I'm old. But you know, understanding the behavior of white tail deer is
is key. The deer year hunting are obviously different than the ones in the Midwest. You you probably have a lot of you know, contrasting but also probably a lot of similarities. You know, the old white tail bucks and what they do. But in the mountains, what if you're looking at an area and maybe you're just getting started, you don't even have an area. What are some things you look for when it comes to finding white tail?
Is it just historically good areas? Is it certain mountain characteristics? Is it just areas that have white tails and you got to go up and find them.
Yeah, that was a lot, but yeah, to break that down, yep. The thing about a mountain white tail is if I took somebody, if somebody spent one week with me one week, that doesn't do it like I do it. I take any elk counter with me. I'll take anybody. I've had triathletes come with me, and they're shocked at the amount of work it takes to hunt a white tail and to kill to successfully get them killed in the mountains,
because you're not hunting flat ground. It is. It is a It is an endeavor, just like when I go kill a bull elk, but it's a daily endeavor. And white tails don't talk like they don't give me the just or they don't give me the they don't give me that vocal. So it's like a ninja type game with them and the you know, I start everything biologically. I'm a science guy. Uh my background's kinesiology and biology. Everything I do is based on sound science. So I
look at habitat. I look for the most conducive habitat out there for feed, security, cover, and the huge thing is is win and and thermals. You have you find. I find the best white tails in the mountains of the entire Pacific Northwest. We're talking western Montana to eastern Washington, all the above through Northido. You always find the best survivor and and the oldest bucks in places that give
them everything they need to survive all their obstacles. And it starts with habitat quality, security cover, water, feed and wind advantage, thermal and wind mixing advantages to keep them alive from the mountain lions and the wolves. So I look at this big picture, this thirty thousand foot view, and I'll start with mapping, but I gotta put a ton of boots on the ground to see it in person.
I'm gonna do it all, lay it all out, and when I get in that right habitat and those those slopes those slopes that protect a big buck based on the predominant prevailing winds and thermals. That's where you'll find you because the wind and the slopes and the security cover and the terrain and the difficulty they keep him alive and he knows it, and that's where he'll He'll gravitate to those places as he gets older, especially up in elevation, to stay alive. So it's this huge equation,
if you will, that I put all together. I got to get all the pieces of the puzzle together, and then I break those areas down like you wouldn't believe. Sometimes I'll grid for days in area and just grid, you know, two miles this way, two miles back, all day long, every twenty yards. Now, who's going to do that? Not many people. But I break that sign down in the off season and that country down in the off season. And then I double back and hunt those big community
scrapes that I find or build. I build incredible mock scrapes, and I don't I'm not trying to toot my horn, but I've been at this scrape game for thirty plus years and it's unbelievable where I can say I can pull a big buck two hundred yards from where I can't really hunt him. I can pull him over to a bench or ridge and kill him there. So there's a lot there. I don't know if I explain that well enough, but it all starts with habitat and win habitat and wind in security cover.
No, that was that was exactly. I know I gave you a pretty loaded question, but that was exactly like how do you go in? And now I've got a question on that because you know we're out in the Midwest. You hear of some of the Midwest white tail, you know, professionals, the guys that do it and do it well. They talk about maybe never getting into their betting area. When you're going to explore an area, are you willing to put a little more cent on the ground, push a
little bit more? Is like finding finding that sign worth maybe getting into his betting area and pushing through there at least once or twice, versus just staying out of there forever, Like how do you balance that? You know, not pushing the year, but you got to kind of figure out his home.
Well outside of season up until about middle of July. I'll go anywhere anywhere, but because I open August thirtieth. Yeah, I'm not going to play it foolish either and pound his betting area that I believe I might kill him August thirtieth and no velvet. I'm going to tread lighter then, But I do all the homework ahead of time. If I'm struggling, and if it's in season and things just aren't working, I'll get aggressive sometimes and go for a
midday walk and I don't care where I go. Sometimes you have to to least let you know, holy hell, he's not even around here. Or yep, your assumption was right up in the top of that drainage, and he is up here. So yes, it's a situational thing, Jason, to where you've got to make those calls, and it's an instinctual thing for me based on forty years a hunt white tails, that is. You know, I think I'm better at it now than I used to be. But
I do a little bit of both. But outside of season, Jason, I will go anywhere anywhere to figure him out, and I'll look at signed from the rut, say in April, when the snow comes off and all that rut sign is still there. When I find those big sheds late or early. I see that a buck, say sheds in December or early January. That's a dead giveaway. So that's where he was hiding out. Now, if he packs his antlers into February March, it's not a dead giveaway because he's somewhere else due to the snow.
Yep, yeap, gotcha. I was just always I'm always curious because I'm sti learning, like as I'm two years into whitetail and i'm very you know, scientific analytical, like you know, my engineering background doesn't let me do it any differently. But you know, you hear a lot of these guys say they'll go into the bedding area one time in February, change batteries and cameras, shed hunting, and they'll never go
back in there again, almost like a sanctuary. And when you're in the mountains, you just don't have that liberty to just not ever go in there. You have to go in there figured it out to ever have a chance at killing him. It sounds like.
Mountain whitetails move way too much. Predators bump them all the time. You're never going to be in the game with a mountain whitetail if you're not if you don't have a tight grip on him, and tight grip means you actually know where the hell he is that week, because he might be a mile or two away the next week. Now, that takes an exorbitant amount of effort on an old whitetail, and it is it's a game
of getting your ass kicked all the time. All I have had happened to me this season so far is getting my ass kicked by weather, by predators, by wolves eleven days into the season or twelve thirteen days into the season. Right now, you know, my son. I text my son this morning driving down to work from where my hunting camp is, and he goes, you can't catch a break, you know, And then we both laugh because
he knows mountain white tails. He's setting over in Bozeman playing college football and hunting alfalfa fields, and he just you know, we know, we get it. He's he's got beautiful bucks on camera daily in the daylight. His girlfriend already killed a big five by five. He put her on it her first day out. And he gets it though, because he spent his whole life hunting mountains with me. It's just a totally different game. Yep, yep, and just a different game.
Yeah. And you so are you being more mobile? Like are you using the tree saddles? Are you entries or are you doing it on the ground? Like what's your setup? And when you have to move a mile away? Like do you have to go tear a stand down or are you bringing a different stand up the mountain with you?
Mon Wolf custom gear mobile tree stands. This thing weighs seven pounds.
Gotcha? So you're just you're hiking to where you need to set up.
I move, I move anywhere I need to. I have permanence. I have permanence over big community scrapes that produce annually. And then you jump in my mobile, set up my seven pounds, set up four sticks. I go anywhere I need to move if I need to. And then when I go when I go to the Midwest and hunt farm country and crop destination country, all I hunt out of is a mobile setup. So I'm not a saddle guy because I like a stand, but my stuff's so light.
I can go anywhere and hunt. I can be in a tree anywhere in five minutes.
Gotcha. Yeah, I was. I was kind of curious on that it was your scouting area. Let's say you've got a target buck. You know, mountain wind is maybe a little bit different than like the midwest prevailing wind when it comes to white How are you starting to think about that? Are you going, you know, up the mountain
in the morning. Are you thinking about your thermal switching you know later in the day like you had mentioned already, you know ridges and passes, Like, how are you trying to make sure this scene doesn't wind you before you before you kill it? Like what's your typical setup, your daily you know in egress and you know in and out? What's that all look like?
Well? I map all the wind and the thermals out in my head first based on looking at them at. But I can map the wind in thermals by looking at them at and kind of know how a west, south, or north or an east wind's gonna work, so that all gets mapped out first in my mind. I have a great in depth understanding the mountain thermals and how they like to move differently on a south slope versus a north slope, versus a n ees slope versus the
west slope. Put all that into my mind when I go into a spot and then I let the wind. I make sure the wind walks me into places, so I have the wind walk me in and help protect me. And a lot of times in this country, Jason, what you end up doing is a lot of my really high quality setups where I kill from a lot of them have an east entrance, which anybody that understands the west and where we get most of our wins from.
I'm usually coming from some sort of an east type direction because I get a lot of south and west winds and north winds. I don't get a lot of easterly winds. Now. I have some spots set up for an east wind too, But I'm very conscious of the morning and evening evening thermal switches. And that's all dictated
by a temperature difference, by slope difference. You know, if you only have a ten degree temperature swing, you're not getting a huge thermal If you have a forty degree temperature swing, you're getting a huge thermal push that day. So all of that goes into the equation and that
helps steer me into where I want to set up. Now, that could mean where I want to set up a permanent setup over a big scrape or a mock that I build, or if I'm being mobile and still just wanting to set up one hundred percent, everything's based on the wind everywhere I go. I will not hunt an old mature buck on a bad wind. As a matter of fact, I will get out of my stand and pull it down and leave, or get out of a
permanent and leave. If the wind starts to hurt me and is blowing in the direction that I believe he's betting, I leave. Yeah, And I'm very disciplined about that.
So your approach is to the to the wind and your stands of the wind. You know, we've always talked about approaches like don't give him any wind, don't let them smell your trails where you think they're coming from, none of that. But how how much wind are you willing to give a big mature white tail? And when I say give him win, like don't let him smell you, but you will what you may give him ninety degrees, one hundred and eighty degrees, Like how much you're willing
to risk it? Because some people say those big mature deer aren't going to move unless they've got some advantage or some idea.
Yeah, all my big bucks that I kill, they have almost they almost have ninety percent of the wind. Here's how I'm killing them. I'm usually killing them where my wind misses their entrance travel route to me by twenty yards at most, or fifteen yards. I rarely kill a big buck when the wind's blowing in my face. So the wind I'm always killing on an edge. Wind always just off the edge of what he thinks, he thinks
he's safe. He doesn't pick me up because the wind is I mean, it's splitting hairs and you get beat because of it. But I also see him in the daylight more often because I am I am dissecting that wind and just getting off to the edge of that wind of his, yes, or.
Or using maybe the little bit of the elevation of energy, got just to kind of blow over him for a second, or whatever you need to.
But like you said, thermal a thermal rise, Yes, exactly. And it's when I say wind for your listeners, I mean thermal wind prevailing mixes all the time, the mix of it. I'm always playing that mix.
Yep. No, I'm with you and a lot of people, you know, they have el kind of with me think I'm crazy because I'll you know, blow my wind puffer and we'll go in a direction. I'm like, a big bull is not going to just They will at times, but the majority of bulls we kill and call in, I'm only giving them, you know, like you said, twenty thirty forty degrees of wind. Otherwise they've got me nailed.
And that's what we're going to kill them. And you have to shoot them before they cross that imaginary line.
Yep elk. Cunning for me has always been enjoyable because I can move on the ground on the wind. And if there's one thing that I feel like I have an exceptional understanding of is how the wind works in the mountains, because that's all you know, four decades of hunting it, and you do even then big then big bulls all day and all the all the smart mature
animals don't care for a ball or a female. Uh you know, all the mature animals, they're alive because they've learned to use that wind, especially in the tight quarters we hunt out here. It's tight, we're not I'm not hardly glassing anything because I can't.
It's so fair yep yep Okay, let's switch directions a little bit. We we touched on you know, these this early season, you know, betting the feeding routine, trying to get them out of their bed in time, on their feet in the daylight. Let's say we're moving into you know, late October into November, and we're starting to hunt these deer, you know, and there there's probably different in between, you know that that mid October. But let's say we're moving
through the seasons. How does your strategy change as we start to get towards this rut and they may start to, you know, change their their mind is not just on food and security now it's food security, and you know the rut the doze.
Well, the thing that people leave out and we left out there is they always socially communicate on linking branches and scrapes through the whole season, through the spring, through the summer, through the winter. When they migrate out and come back, they go straight to the scrapes right away. So I always have one common denominator always everywhere I go, doesn't matter if I'm in Ohio, Idaho, Washington, Alberta, Oklahoma,
doesn't matter, North Dakota. I always have a scrape involved because that scent is like guys that are really good trappers will get this scent is incredibly powerful if you're a trapper and you know it. I trap big mountain white tails on a scrape. So my one common denominator is I always have a scrape working for me on
that buck. And then as I progress into October and November, the biggest moves that I make on my specific dear I'm trying to kill are going to be in conjunction with the dough family groups that he wants to serve and that he's showed me in the past that he
services before I decide to hunting. So a lot of times what I end up doing Jason is moving not a long ways away from his summer betting hermit hideout, but I usually end up moving a little bit down in elevation to where the dough family groups are spending more time, and then I hunt those big white tails all the way into December on those big community scrapes where there's more does to keep it simple?
Gotcha? That makes a ton of sense.
Yeah, So it's simple science, simple science, Yes, sir.
So you're using that licking branch or that scrape is Basically, it's it's the it's the communal way of that deer knowing what other deer in the area. And you're pretty convinced that the majority, if not all, the deer in that area are going to go visit that to to you know, let other deer know they're there or they're in that that basin or in that drainage.
Yeah, I'm not just convinced. I have decades of proof of it since I started running video. So those old bucks have spent so much time on those scrapes because it's like you and I being on social media, this is how we communicate. A scrape is where they leave their identity to let every deer in the mountains know. And it doesn't matter where you hunt white tails, white
tails or white tails, they do it everywhere. That scrape is that common denominator that you can hunt a deer over any in any state legally, you can hunt a scrape always. And what ends up happening with our mountain white tails and with white tails everywhere I go is when that rut gets closer, the scrapes that are closer to the dough family groups, that the dough family groups
adhere to more and that the doughs check more. Of course, the big bucks start checking those more frequently, so I might leave a scrape that he was checking, say in September more often because he's moved down onto three dough family groups on a big scrape that he's checked for five years or for four years ahead of me.
Yes, gotcha, gotcha. That's the great information toy. Like I say, some of this stuff is over my head. But when you when you talk about it, it all makes sense. Just as a hunter, it's like, oh, that that makes sense, and that's your you know, whether it's you know, for elk, we really don't have that, you know, calm. You may have an idea, but like you know, we check wallows, we check you know, passes in the ridge lines, but
we don't have that like scrape to go to. So it's there's a little bit more of the unknown when it comes to Elk versus it sounds like on white tail, it's like that is the key.
Yeah, and I think early season because the elkcret's way earlier the white tails that wallow is the closest thing to a scrape because bulls piss all over at them, they leave a lot of sand and moose scrape. All of our ungulates scraped a wallow would be an elk scrape, and guys have had a lot of luck over the years if you're patients and think the thing about elk cut is patients over a wallow can be hard for
a lot of guys. I'm a super patient hunter when it comes to putting the time in with a big buck, so that helps me because I'll be patient with him.
Yeah, speaking of patients, how many deer day do you see on a typical mountain hunt when you're targeting a specific big buck.
This time of the year. Some this this time of the year, sometimes I don't see a deer because the only deer I'm going to see is either him or nothing. That's kind of what I think during the Yeah, and like yesterday I saw three deer on a two hour set, which I saw three dose, but then I checked my camera. The wolves were in the night before. My buck's nowhere to be around that, so I'm gonna have to go find him in a different spot.
Okay, So I have to ask you why I got you? Do you? You know, what's your approach to calling real quickly sent control and the decoying. I know you got to get out. You're going to look for some white tails up in Alberta. So I'm just curious calling sent control, decoying and how you use those or if you use them at all.
Calling. I'll just work through your list very minimal because I'm trying not to tip off a five or six year old deer. Now. People that are getting into this and wanting to kill a deer and super happy with any buck, you know, grunting social or rattling, not overdoing it. That's what I did years ago. And you're going to get that age structure to younger. You're going to have
more opportunities on younger age structure deer. I have nothing against it, but I have learned over the years of my old bucks they're pretty privy to what's going on now. The call my go to call is a snort wheeze. On any big buck, I'll snort wheeze him any time of the year, and he'll use he come to me, he'll useally check me out because he's such a dominant deer.
So snort wheeze. I don't ever blindly snort wheeze. I don't ever blindly rattle, but I will use that stuff even early season a tickle if a buck gets by me and I want to try to bring him back during the rut. I'm not a blind hardly Ever, the safest call there is in the white tail rut that will pull a deer and never spooky, is a soft social dough grunt. You'll never hurt yourself with that hunting bucks,
and it's not a threatening call to any deer. So my calling, I would say, is minimal, but it's tactical and strategic, okay. And then in SCNC control, I get as clean as I can. My clothes never come inside. They always hang outside. I believe the earth cleans your clothes better than anything. I try to stay away from toats and stuff with moisture, so I'll just throw my clothes in a open garbage bay has some air coming in and out of it, or it doesn't seal any
moisture in. And then I always get dressed outside of my truck, go hunt, come back, Strip my clothes off real quick, throw them in that bag, take them back, hang them outside. They never come in a house. They're really never allowed. Even in the front of my pickup. They're in that garbage contractor's bag that's sent free, but it has some air breathing into it if you will. So that's and I use baking soda only to wash my clothes in I've done that for decades. It works
amazing my personal scent control. I'm playing edge Winds, so I do use a vanishing a hunter from buck Fever synthetics that I've used for almost thirty years. And all I'm trying to do there is minimize my human odor because I want a whitetail buck. If he does pick me up and come in down wind to me, I want my scent molecular cone to seem to him like I was there a day earlier, or maybe I'm four
or five hundred yards away. For example, you walk by a skunk at twenty yards versus walking by a skunk at four hundred yards, You're going to react different as a human based on the concentration of molecules of negative scent. So I do play that game a little, but I don't think you can ever be one hundred percent sent free. I want to be clear on that.
Yeah, gotcha, Okay, what was the third one? And decoys? And I think I know the answer high mountain stuff. You're not probably packing big giants in there, but I'm curious to see. Yeah.
Now, the best decoy in the world is a live though the best decoy or a young buck that an old buck comes in and season is scrape and he runs off. So my goal is to have live decoys, live deer in my scrapes daily in the daylight.
Yep, all right, Well, out of respect your time, Troy, we really appreciate you jumping on. I know you got to get up to Alberta to do some scouting for a later hunt, but how can people follow along with more of your adventures or find out more about you and what you got going on.
First of all, Jason, thanks for having me. Glad we got to sneak this in the easiest way to get a hold of me, guys is my Instagram is where I talk hunting. I kind of use my Facebook for family stuff anyway. All that to say, my Instagram handle is m t and Underscore Man, so Mount Man thirty three and that's just a name that was kind of given to me my my buddies from the white Tail Dixters team because I hunt my mount white Tails and I have my whole.
Life, gotcha? Well, uh no, I appreciate it. Hopefully you catch up to that big giant buck that you shared with me last night and the good luck scouting in Alberta, and I'm sure we'll see a big buck on the ground. Like I say, you're obviously a wealth of knowledge. I wish we could have talked for hours, but you're you're busy, and maybe we'll u we'll bring you back around on the on the show for for episode two here coming up.
Let's do it, Jason. It's a it's a pleasure to get a meet you. I've seen a lot of your stuff on social media. Good luck to you this season.
Yep, you too, Troy.
Take care, have a good one
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