Women in the Game

She's the chief operating officer of the Draft Network. She's a co host of the TV in Fantasy podcast, and she makes a mean Greek chicken, pays DeMarcus on cut to a Podcast. Were there any particular sports that you fell in love with and also, you know, fell in love with that you went out and participated in all sports rather than just being observer. Yeah. So I played basketball my whole life, and I grew up in a neighborhood with all boys, so we had like a little courtyard.

I had a brother obviously my brotherhood mentioned um. And then I grew up in a neighborhood of all boys, so with this courtyard and in the courtyard it was kind of like the area that was Our parents were like cool with us going in there because it was safe and it was gated off from the regular street from one Row Street. So we would go there and we played every sport like I was all time QB.

Like I'm still all time QB with my family, Like I could throw every route like I was jokingly over the weekend was like they're like, what's your favorite route to throw? And I was like a wheel route and they were like, oh that's awesome and freaking out about that on social media. But um, I played every sport growing up because I wanted to play with the boys. Yeah you could, what would you what would you throw to Steve Smith? Run on a wheel roud? I'm gonna

tell you right, you know why? Why why are you not running a wheel out? It's such a lazy and sloppy route? Oh my god, here we go. Only if the wide receiver runs it lazy? Come on now, Like, what's your favorite route to run? Okay, well I'll break it down generally? Why sis don't? Yeah that's pretty generally ends? Yeah I was gonna say slow tight ends. Yeah. See that's why I'm I'm saying it more in their regards of if YO go to route as a wire was

a wheel route. Yeah, like he didn't mind. I'm throwing the ball to a really really slow dad, right, So that's why it's fun for me because I'm like, my dad is the slow tight end, Like that's the dude that I'm throwing the ball too. So exactly right, who's covering slow dad? Slow uncle? Slow Dad's getting slow if I can't cover by slow uncle. So that's why this works. Guys like push dad into the good night to that, and I get excited too, because you sound like you

will overthrow somebody. But it's not your faults. Quarterback, Oh, you better believe. I'm I'm I'm I'm looking. I'm looking. I'm Tom Brady. I'm looking at you and I'm going. I've got my hands out. I'm yelling at you. I'm going, that was the catchable ball? You just slow? He run four He's definitely, yeah, that might be. That might be kind. I don't even know if he's hitting that. So it's that's why he can run the wheel roud. He's not. I'm not throwing him a fade. He's not getting there fast.

Like it's he's he's still no. Dad is definitely not running a slant. There is no chance that's happening. I'm not. Uh yeah, I think you're overestimating how athletic my brother. Yes, right, I can. That's that's I get the whole where the whole wheel, every route's in the tree for my brother because he's six six and super athletic, but not for not for especially not for my uncle. He's short and slow. My dad's at least semi tall and not that slow.

He's just average, right, He's average. You go from Chicago Nebraska, that had to be a culture shock to some degree. Yeah, it was a It was a huge culture shock, almost as so much of a culture shock that I transferred. So when I was a freshman my first weekend at school, I was way overwhelmed. I was like, this is so different. Everybody's for the most part, now Lincoln and Omaha has a lot of this is really cool, but like a lot of people were from small town. That started to

freak me out a little bit. It was totally different. I was like, all right, I'm a city kid. I dressed different than everybody here. I'm walking around in Jordan's. These girls were making fun of me for wearing Jordan's I was like, this isn't cool. I don't like this, Like this is not this might not be my people, but I ended up loving it. I had my best friends in my whole life. Uh. Then I had an

unbelievable college experience. But my my first quarter of the year of my freshman year almost almost took me out of there. But I ended up kind of my My dad was like, you gotta stick with it, you gotta scholarship, Like, you gotta stay there, do your thing, You'll be fine, And he was right, you know, and and change is different. And I was away from my family for the first time ever, so I got used to it. But uh, it was definitely a culture shock. Nebraska is not Chicago.

So you at the University of Nebraska, You're nineteen years old, you start your first company, seeing an opportunity to cover sports using Twitter. Why decide to do that at at that young age? What what was in you too to want to want to build that up? Yeah, it was. It was very much. I'm sitting in a you know, kind of intro class. It's a journalism one on one and I'm sitting in a class and Joe Starrita is

the one of my favorite professors. He's sitting up at the frontal class and he asked the class he goes who is currently on Twitter? And I raised my hand and I'm the only one you got. They're talking. There's at least two kids, probably more in this class. Nobody raises her hand. And at the time, I was like, I didn't care about Facebook, and that was like just two thousand nine, like everybody was on Facebook. It was that was the thing you got, you wanted to do.

And I was like, no, no, no, I'm on Twitter and like I think it's a huge opportunity to cover sports. And about half the class kind of started laughing at me, and I was like, all right, all right, cool, Like I'm I'm that person. I like being the underdog. I like being told that I can't do something. So that was kind of the first thing was like, oh, you guys think this is a joke, I'll show you right like you'll see. And so I started meeting up with UM had a sorority sister who her boyfriend was a

really really good UM was really into web development. So we just started meeting and we would have we have coffee meetings at this place called the Mill, and um, that's we just started talking about starting corn Fed Sports. And that's why we started it because there wasn't really any coverage, um that we liked covering the Aska sports and Nebraska football, so we were like, why don't we

just start our own thing. And I'm sure this doesn't surprise you guys, but like, obviously I wanted to cover football, but I also wanted to cover all the other sports, like Nebraska has a phenomenal volleyball team like the nineties. Nebraska football is the current Nebraska volleyball team like badass, really really good, so I wanted to cover them. I wanted to cover our basketball team. I wanted to like I wanted to cover every sport, like I literally love

all sports. Enough people kept telling me that I either couldn't do it, or I shouldn't do it, or it

was stupid. And then as that started to happen, it just sparked in me like if this is making people feel uncomfortable, especially older people, Like it was mostly older professors and older journalists that were like, that's not a thing newspapers, like you should go right for the newspaper and I was, like, nobody reads the newspaper that's eighteen or nineteen years old, Like there's an entire generation that's

gonna make this obsolete. Like else me, it's social and it just they you know, I think they were afraid of the change, and so I just wanted to kind of embrace it and take the risk because I could. I was in college and I could take the risk, and I did and it and it definitely paid off. But it was it was people telling me that it wasn't a good idea over and over and over again that inspired me to think, if I'm making people uncomfortable, it's probably for a reason, and I should lean into

this and pay attention to this. And that's that's why I did it. It's already hard to break into sports in general as general. Then you add on top whether you're a minority and whether you're you're a woman. Not only do you breaking into sports media, but you're also on an entrepreneurial journey. What are what's been some of the challenges you've had to face with with going down

both of those paths. Yeah, being a woman in sports and stuff, guys like that, it takes a certain level of toughness to just be able to do it in general, like constantly. And it took toughness in two thousand in two thousand nine of the freshman in college, and it takes toughness now is an executive in sports media in like it's there's a lot of the same bs going

on now that there was going on then. I'm just in a different position now and I've worked my way into a position where i can call the shots as far as who I'm hiring and who I'm bringing in and who's a part of the conversations. And I think

that's that's how it changes. Like, that's how it changes is you get more diversity from minorities and from women in jobs where they can hire people and they can be focused on that and making sure that there are people that are like me that have a say in the rooms that matter, because that's what That's what sucks then and it sucks even now. But it's it's better now for me because of the because of what I've

been able to achieve. But you know, having people call the shot for you and not believe in you, and even after you you do, I could have one mistake, right, I could make one mistake and it was still so like prolific the mistake to them, where I could watch my colleague make mistakes and it was like, well he played so like it doesn't matter right, like he knows the game like and it was like, no, he doesn't, Like he doesn't study like me, he doesn't talk to

the coaches like me, he doesn't talk to the players like me, like I out hustle him NonStop. And I can remember that being so frustrating and just almost not pursuing sports because of that, but then just deciding. One day, I just had this total breakdown and I talked to my dad and my dad was like, listen, like you love sports, like this is your passion. You're not gonna give up because some jerk calls you sweet cheets in a locker room, like you're gonna get over it, Like

you're gonna get over it. You're gonna get tough, and you're gonna realize like next time he said something like that to you, you better have something to say back. And I was like, all right, Dad, And that's that's pretty much like what I did from then on, Like I was like, Okay, dudes are gonna say stuff to me and I'm just gonna say something back and guess what, every time it happens, they're like totally checked themselves. They're like whoa, because they're not used to getting it back.

They're used to just saying it's saying it's saying it and nobody checks them. So when you check them and it's like, oh, okay, I want them to do. For the most part, there's a couple, you know, extreme cases, but that's that's what it's like to be a woman in sports. Like it's and it's like, as I said, there's still a lot of challenges now that I face,

but I'm in a different position. And that's why as an executive, I've I've been very conscientious of who I'm hiring, who I'm bringing in, what the culture is like within the company, to make sure that we have diverse voices and that that can change the game. Uh. If more people have that attitude, how do you not fall into the narrative of now being in charge of well, I'm only gonna hire women, or I'm only going to hire

people who did not play right. Where you don't all of a sudden it spend it so far like to spend spirits are to where now you're instead of part of the solution, now you've just created a different narrative that you're part of the problem too. Listen, it's a really important question, guys, because it's I feel like this is where you can start to have that understanding of Okay, this is how you how you do things. And I'm not, by any means the person that's ever not going to

make mistakes. But what I can say is I'm always gonna hire the best person for the job. The difference between what your guys are alluding to, and I get it all the time, like you're gonna look for women, you're gonna look for minorities, you're gonna look the I Every and I mean that in the nicest way I can possibly say it. Every Tom Dick and Harry White guy applies for a job that they do not deserve, they're not entitled to, they don't have the qualifications for.

But they show up their nineteen years old, they're not in journalism school, and they hit me up and they think they deserve a full time writing job. Straight up. It happened all the time, you know who. I don't hear from women and minorities, but neither one. I have had to seek out every minority that I have hired, and I've had to seek out every female that I have hired. Why do you think that? Because I know

for me, I'm I'm that's exactly right. I'm a black male that worked in sports for for quite some time, and from from my own personal experience, you have to be not even better than average, not even better, way better exceptional, And that's just to get a foot in the door, right. So to your point, every time Dack and Harry applies, but it is hard to stand out. So because you know why a lot of the times

and Harrys get the job, that's true. But then also how do you how do you make the opportunities not even just available, but just highlighted in awareness to to other people. You can make the opportunities available, you have to be consciential of of making this a part of

what you're doing as you're hiring it. Because I mean, it's it's like it is if you sat in a room, I would venture to say that the white guys in the room are more often than not going to think they deserve the opportunity, whereas the girls are going to talk themselves out of it. They're gonna give you ten

reasons why they don't deserve it. And the black guys don't are going to talk themselves out of it as well, or they're just not going to speak up because it's it's a conditional thing, like we've been conditioned to think that we don't deserve these things because we haven't seen it, Whereas if you're a white guy in this country, you've seen you can think you think you walked it, and

that's the that is the time. That is you're talking about a lot of learned behavior, a lot of watching and seeing and and not thinking that you deserve it. And that that only changes when people that have the ability to hire people are conscientious of that and say, okay, if I have a job name right at the end

of the day. You guys talked about it earlier. Sports is so competitive that if I don't have a reference that I know about you, you're not going to get the job because I know enough people in sports that I can call and say, hey, tell me about this person. Right. So that's the first part, is the networking part, and how that plays a part in this, and and reaching out to people and saying, Hey, I want to hire somebody, and I'm looking for you know this, these are the qualifications.

Do you have anybody that you can send my way? Right? Do you know anybody? Have you heard from anybody? Because that's what that's what's happening. Like, that's what you have to do. Because the guys who send me their resumes all the time. I mean it, If I went through and I probably have four hundred resumes saved in my email, I would venture to say three nine, if not all four hundred are all white guys, and and most of them are not qualified, and they all ask for jobs.

And it's because they've been conditioned to think that they can have it and and I don't. There's there's only so much one individual can do, right, Like what can I do for my company? I can make I can make sure that I am present in how I am hiring, who I am hiring, and making sure I'm doing my due diligence to reach out and try and find people, versus just sitting back and saying, well the best people will find me. Um, that's just I think my attitude.

I can't speak to what anybody else is doing, but that's that's how I've approached it. Let's talk ball, all right, So you've done you're doing Draft Network, you've done fantasy you do a little bit of fantasy football, correct, yep, As a former athlete, I hate fantasy football. Why you hate fantasy man, I hate fantasy football because fantasy football has financially has been great. But now for everybody involved in fantasy and football, right, fantasy love it, football, love it.

You come by on a fantasy football and it brings in more revenue dollars. But now you have the fan who may not necessarily watch the games, but now they're only watching because the impacts fantasy football. But sometimes you have people they can look at a guy. Let's just say, hypothetically, guy has ten thousand yards, a billion I'm exaggera and a billion touchdowns, but if he doesn't perform that week

on fantasy, you trash you trashy. Never I've never I have never met a guy who's played in the league that like fantasy football. I don't because I and I totally understand why you would feel that way. Because if I'm Steve or if I'm I've seen it in an interview in a post game right where you've got Travis Kelsey getting interviewed post game and he's he didn't have a big game, and somebody's yelling at him from the stands, like, dude,

your trash, You're terrible today. You're tweeting at somebody and you're telling them that you you know, you've lost me my fantasy matchup. Like I can imagine that as a competitor, especially if you win the football game. Like if you go out there and you win the game and then people are tweeting at you about how you didn't win fantasy, You've gotta be like, who the hell cares? Right, Like I tell I tell people that all the time that play fantasy, Like you have what you want to happen

in your head, and then here's what reality is. Because the head coach doesn't care about giving Clyde Edwards Hilaire that's many touches because that's what's good for your fantasy team, Like he's gonna do what's best for the matchup to play that in the game, and that's what he's gonna do. So you might want this to happen, but it ain't gonna happen because that's not the game plan. And if you don't. That's why. That's why I can see why you hate it. So I understand why you hate it.

It's not like I woke up today and said, Gerard starting me on this fantasy team, I gotta show out screw him, Like that's not what you're doing. You don't get the call your own play yes, to the point of where when you hear that, you're like, really and then now and then I play fantasy a little bit when I was done. You don't know the game plan, right, you really don't. You don't understand or the matchups' not. Just like this is terrible, right, So I literally hate

fancy football. If everybody could just chill and be nice, then we'll be fine, right, because then you wouldn't have fans screaming at you or tweeting at You're like, yo, bro, you suck your garbage because you didn't have three catches for him, and you're like, yeah, okay, cool, Like if

people just didn't. People doing that to athletes in general has always made me upset, Like whether it's fantasy related or it's like you have a bad game and the team loses, and people feel this sense of ownership where they can come over and tell you like like you guys are saying, like you don't walk up to somebody, you don't go outside to the garbage man and you yell at the garbage man because there's one piece of garbage that fell out, and you're like, you stuck at

your job, like nobody does that, Like people you got in sport. We have to take a break and the morning thing. We gotta pay some bills. You got checks. I love cut to It, and I love it even more when you download us and subscribe and you can follow us on social media too, Smithie where where at? That's at? Cut to It on Instagram? What about Twitter? At? Cut to It Facebook? Cut to It featuring Steve Smith singr?

What about online? And you can follow us at cut to It podcast dot com where you can buy merch and you can subscribe to us wherever you listen to podcasts. I got all my answers questions. Um, yeah, I got all my questions answered. That's what I'm here for, a brother, cut to a Podcast dot Com. Coming up on the cut to It Podcast, We've got Odessa Jenkins, CEO of the Women's National Football Conference, a former NFL coaching intern with Atlanta Falcons, and she's a two time USA National

Women's football champion. Odesse and Jenkins coming up and cut to a podcast playing football with the boys in the league, growing up in middle school where your coach told you that you had to quit because there was no place for you to play in high school? Now the word I highlighted, and I've just been sitting on for the last couple of days prepping for this is no place.

And as a dad of one daughter and then I was as a father of four and two bos three boys, I cannot imagine someone else telling my children that you you don't have a place here. H What was going when you heard that? How did that sit with you? And and now hearing that so many years later, walk us through that. Yeah, it's still a chip on my shoulder that I carried today. Um and and unfortunately it's it's a it's a story that a lot of girls

and women are still being told by their coaches, fathers, brothers, sisters, moms. Um. But for me, sports was the one is I shouldn't say it was, but at that time in my life, Um, you know, I was about thirteen. I lost my brother a couple of years before my family had been through a lot. My parents were on the board on the verge of the divorce. UM. Sports was my refuge. Football was the place that I was going to on a consistent basis, UM to be outside of my mind and

inside of my heart. And I was on fire for it. Um. It was my safe space at the time, and that that family that I had with the boys who were on my team was so important to me, and my coaches were so important to me. So for my coach, who I trusted, who I believed, who told me I was exceptional. You know, I was a running back, so he he it broke my heart. I don't know how else to put it. To have him come to me and say, hey, you're great. You you you you. You

know the boys are getting bigger. Um, there is no option for you. And if you want to be a serious athlete, which he knew I wanted to be, he limited my options and he said, here are your options. And it was one of the few times in life where I let somebody else give me the options. UM, because I couldn't see past the people who influenced me.

And I think that's a huge lesson, particularly for women, because the world guide so much of who we are and how we're supposed to be in dress and who we love and all those things, and so I think that it was heartbreaking. So I went on and I carried a fire probably into basketball. UM. I carried a little bit of anger. And the way I played ball. If you watch me play, UM, I played a lot like a dB out there or running back out there

going to the hoop. Like I had all of that same fire that I carried from from middle school to high school and to college playing basketball. And so in that moment, I felt heartbreak. UM. I felt like the world was telling me what my possibilities were as a woman and I and I like it. I really I really didn't like it. I will say that frankly, that coach was just making the right decision for me. Right.

I wanted to go to college. I wanted college to be paid for UM, and so focusing on basketball helped me get that. For me, it was the right path. But at the time, UM, I think that the way I think now is if you have somebody who you think is exceptional, maybe I wouldn't have been able to play running back at the varsity level. Maybe I wouldn't have been able to um even play in high school.

Who knows, but I think totally eliminating that that was a possibility for me period, For somebody I trusted meant that I shouldn't even try. And that that's where I think the miss was, like, you don't even try to do this because the path doesn't exist. Just because you come to a forking road, is that's telling you to go left or go right? Well, how soft is the is the dirt in the middle or until you go straight right? Like how hard is this brick in front

of me or what? Uh? So I think that that and and you know, the world happens exactly the way it's supposed to. But I think if you want to be a creator, if you want to advance something, then sometimes you gotta go against the grain. And I think we should do more encouraging, particularly our girls um to make pass for themselves. And you know, for me, I use it as a chip And now I got this league that I'm developing and creating opportunities for other women.

So it worked out, but I would have loved for somebody to challenge me, to challenge the system at that time. What would you tell yourself back then? To maybe stand up to those coaches or just kind of say hey, I want a place or to create that space for you. If I could have went back and done that again, would have winn and tried out for our freshman football team at Bellflower High School. Oh hold, you could have played exactly Bellflowers still Google right now, let's give the

world a context. Compare them Cincinnati Bengals. Oh, doctor was like that, don't do the bu communities like that. We weren't that bad. We weren't We weren't Arizona Cardinals bad. We were before fits. I mean, which Arizona car are you're talking about when they was in Arizona or I'm just trying to figure out when you say bell Flower, that just I'm like, that just debunked our whole story right there. Team bell Flowers stank. I put it like this.

When bell Flower has a good team, they got a good team, it's a shocker when they don't bell Flower. This is how bad Bell Flowers. You either play at night or during the day. If you cannot play at night is because gang affiliated or your team is awful. But most of the time, even at night when it's a big game and it's gang affiliated. They just have a ton of police. I don't think bell Flower had a night game. Bell Flower is an offsite tink game

for a big school. How about the just keep talking about my team, my school, am I and my Lyne though you you I Detechno lize you were not and I felt like, um, like I could have I could have played in Actually now they're gonna be three years later playing at UM playing at Wilson High School, which was in the same division. So she she was alignment and so it was a little different for her. But I definitely could have got could have got a couple of years in on jay V for sure. How was

your support system through all of this? What did they ingrain in you? What how did they hold your hand? And what were those dialogues like, yeah, you know, nothing was more important than going to college. To my mom, like she going and getting a college education. She knew, she had the foresight that sports was going to equal in education. Education was going to equal up good jobs, seeing more of the world, and then the possibilities were endless.

So for my mom, she was she was all about listening. You know, you're a great athlete, You're a great ball player focused on that, so she wanted me to focus on bad I think she actually liked seeing me play basketball too, so that was her preference. Um. So when I got home, there were no, um, you know, cry on my shoulder. It's just like I told her before, there was really no cry on my shoulder. It was either hey, are you gonna listen to them and not

play football, or you're gonna focus on basketball. Whichever one you're going to do, you need to go be exceptional at it. Um. I had a lot of love for basketball, so I saw, um, you know, at the time, I had friends who were going off to college who were older than me, and so I really saw that path and focused on that path. And then I had a cousin. His name is Lonnie, and he was on his way um to college. He played It's crazy, he played volleyball

at Lock. This dude got a volleyball scholarship. This is yeah, at Lock High School. He got My mom and dad went to Lock. Yeah, so he got a volleyball scholarship. And he was like, oh, j look, I don't care what these people are saying. You can ball. You go focus on basketball. And that dude end up coming to like every one of my games all through high school, all through college. When you're playing basketball, now where is

your heart? I know you possibly like our You're over there peeking over at football practice, like going, man, that could be me. I dug one in the basketball why one? I jumped When I decided that that was the focus. I jumped on and I completely focused on getting a Division one basketball scholarship. That was the goal, and I didn't look back until I signed my letter of intent.

The first thing I did on my visit was go to the football It was so weird, um um, on my visit to the college and they were showing me all this stuff, the locker room and everything, and I just was obsessed and it was it retriggered my love um for for football. Um. I couldn't imagine what I would have done if I would have went to a big, old powerhouse SEC football school. I probably would have not been able to focus at all of basketball. Um. But that's what changed for me. And so I think I played,

you know, my seasons of basketball. But I immediately met this guy named David Kellogg. He was an entrepreneur and he played dB. He was a dB UH for the football team. In a couple of years into my college career, he was like, oh, Jay, I'm gonna start. I'm gonna start a women's football league. Oh. He started telling me that. It was like people, He's like, He's like, I'm telling you, when you've done with basketball, I'm gonna start this sleeve.

Hot girls are gonna play. It's gonna be eight on age. Give her high's he whispering breath, stink, no tea, whispering sweet nothings, and don't know that. And she over there, she taking it all in too. I dream. Oh he's so hard dreaming. Hey, I got this bridge that it's over. They call it over at the pond. Don't worry about that. It's not over at the pond. I got the I got the title to it. Man, it ain't in my pocket. I got the title to give me a hundred dollars

and it's yours. She was like, do you accept cord? Everything in my pocket right now? Can I lay away? Do you take bikes? I got a bike. So So David Kellaw comes in and tells you about this women's football team that he that he wants to start. So what's your what's your reaction? Does that start to spur up your It sounds like it starts to spur up that level football again. And how did you transition into that?

It was wild because yes, so David, and David was actually the best friend of my college boyfriend, right so. Um and now that y'all made me think about this. Every guy every dated back in the day. Um, we're all football players. So there was something I was trying. I was trying to stay close to the game and every where I couldn't. Um, you can kiss, but I just want your clicks. Poor guys like they they really didn't they really they had no chance, but um, but

they can ballow. Heading into my senior year, he completely tore up my focus in basketball because he stood up this. He went and did it. It was just eight on eight women's football, tackle football, and he had all the

little teams around all of the little cities. It was like six teams and it was all of these athletes, girls from the soccer team, from the intramural teams, and David mestand put me at running back at one of the on one of these teams, and I was, I was, I could not there was I was so overloaded with um, happiness and fulfillment. UM the idea because it was the first time I played football with women, and I never thought of the concept like, yo, I don't have to

play against boys. I can actually play with girls, which was always my preference, like play against other women, and so UM we ended up doing that for a couple of years, and once I got a taste of that, I never looked back. We hear people say, man, we want equal opportunity, we want this, we want that, But what this really equal opportunity from Odess's perspective, really me, I don't have a dream of women playing in the NFL.

I have a dream of the w NFC UM standing alone, UM having an opportunity to bring in sponsorship dollars, build a strong revenue stream. UM work with universities and colleges and the government UM to build a pipeline for girls

to play football against other girls. So if me equity looks like developing a professional women's tackle football league UM that has its UH support from professional men's football, but that we will wake up and no girl will ever be told that her time in football is over because

no opportunity exists for her. And see that is an answer that I love you want other women to have that opportunity that not to hear what you heard, which is you have no place because this world is big enough with the right leadership in every area, right and

we're just talking about football. With the right leadership, there's enough football fields to go around, there's enough footballs to go around, and there's enough cliques and listen, it sounds like there's enough bodies that want to get punished, like the game of football is right, and who are willing to put themselves through it? Yea. And also to just personally, you know, I know you guys are looking and with with with the pandemic and all all of that stuff.

I think you'll be good as Steve Smith uh senior Um comes along. We you know, whatever stuff you guys have haven't going on, email us and we'll give you a thousand dollars um. And then my foundation also do a thousand dollars just just to say, you know. And and the reason I say all of that is I can't fix all of the issues. But if if you get enough of enough people that's right behind y'all, that that's what it counts. And so that you know, so

just hearing your answering and why really encouraged me. And I loved it because it wasn't a It wasn't an extravagant you ask or thought it was a through. It was a kiss for me. I believe in that there's things that will happen and will exist that I can't see. Um, But I've been in I've been at this for a decade. This ain't new, right, Like I I'm working my ass off to build this. I'm not asking for anybody to give me or hand me anything. I've been working at

it for a decade. So it's not like, um, this is happening overnight or I see what's been built over a hundred years and think that I can build it into what. What I'm asking for is that to your point, there are people like you there. There are brands out there, you know, shout out to Adidas and Rebel Sports who have already jumped on board with us. But there are people, um, that could literally change the trajectory of the opportunity that women have in women's sports. And I think it just

takes um some unity, uh and some support. You know. I think that there's billions and billions of dollars like I was on one. I don't know if you have all the sides, but there's one of the things that my presentation that I always present that says that five hundred million dollars has been invested over the last seven years and the failed professional men's football leagues five million dollars, girl, and what I what I would do with one percent

of that would blow somebody's mind. I think it's about that type of breathing that getting out. Hey, Gerard, why did you get that T shirt? Oh? Yes, I got it from cut to a podcast dot com where we have exclusive merchandise. Shout out to our guys at seven or four shot. But yeah, you can go on, buy you a T shirt, subscribe to us wherever you listen to podcasts. Coming up on the Cut to It podcast, we've got Jennifer King, the first black woman to become

a full time coach in the NFL. A former football player herself, she also coached women's basketball. Jennifer King on the Cut to It Podcast. I think this is a unique question because I'm a dad. What's the dynamic when you wanted to play and obviously your girl, so we I want to highlight that and also talk about to some degree, talk about the stigma of girls playing guy sports, especially at a young age, because us I've used to do.

I used to do football camps when I did play, and I and I. One thing that I always noticed that was really cool is you always got two or three girls. But these two or three girls were always excellent players because they most most young men playing sports,

they lacked the details. But that that girls that played they always knew that they had to have the fundamentals because some girls were just physically not as strong or not as fast as the counterparts as the counterparts, and so what was the dynamic between mom seeing you play football and dad seeing you play football? Yeah, that was that was funny because you know when I got to like middle school even high school, you know, the coaches were like, you know, like I think she can help us.

You know, so I was I was trying. I was trying, but you know that was like nah, like they printed. My parents trum was let me do anything else and supported me except for playing football that they were worried about, you know, me get injured, so I didn't get to do it. So I still just played in like pe and you know, in class but that was it pretty much until I was an adult. So did they ever tell you that you that you can't. No, they never

told me I couldn't. They just didn't sign me up for allowing me to do it because you know, they were worried about me get injured. So that was pretty much it. Not that I couldn't do it, it was

just they were concerned. And I like that because obviously I'm a dad and I played football, and you know, I remember I wasn't working on Thursday night and I was watching, but I was watching Thursday night because I had to take notes and I had a show to do the next that following weekend, and because of that, I was watching the Thursday night and I remember sitting there watching Ryan Sayeser he got his injury, and I can remember, like yesterday, my wife goes, My wife Angie goes,

that's why I won't bammim playing football, and I got sold. I was a little bit irritated because I had to walk. I paused it and I walked Boston through what happened and why it happened. Not the sport, her natural reaction, which I agree with. It's a brutal sport. That's why I wanted to play, but as a dad, I had to go, No, it's not the sport necessarily, it's the participant in that sport that increased the chances of his

probability of getting hurt. On the way he did something and we went back through it and I walked him through it, and from that moment on, I had told my son, for you to play this game. If you can't see, if you don't see you what you hit, you don't hit it. And on that particular play, and I played against Ryan, he's a hell of a football player, but also like anybody else, you can have that centimeter of air put your head down and it can cost

you something. I broke my neck in college. I put my head down, the two people hit me exactly on the same shoulders, and I had a C four burst fracture. And I was in a neck harness for about seven or eight months, to the point of where I had to lift. When I got out of neck harners, I had to lift and improve my support around my shoulders. I didn't have a fusion surgery, but I had to left every time until a long time. And I never told anybody what I'm saying that now is probably for

the first three or four years of my career. Any time I would turn abruptly writer left, or if I didn't left that week, I would get a stinger that would go up my neck. Wow, And I had to, but I that's all I did. I wouldn't left much, but I get them tracks right right, and and and and the reason I got injured, Here's why I got injured. Rob Morris was a linebacker for b y U. We had to win that game and go off to the Vegas Bowl to play eventually a team led by Freshno

State by David Carr. And I was playing proper return and Rob Morris was a potential first round draft pick. He end up getting drafted I think UH in the first round, fourteenth or something pick. And Rob Morris played on special teams and I saw him, so I was gonna dip on them. And the same way I played, I tried dip on Rob Morrison, the same way I tried to beat New Mexico. When I played against UH

Brian Orlaer. I wanted to show this little kid from l a complaining only it was my It was my opportunity to showcase what I could do for scouts because I was not getting looked at as much after things giving. I was about, you know, in in in college, and I remember I tried to dip on them. I was on the sideline on our sidelight going down and in pro vote, going down the sideline, and I was like, I went to dip on them, dip my head. The other guy did not see hit. They both hit both

shoulders simultaneously bang back in the day. I'm like, man, my neck is tight. So he took me out for a few plays, put some big gay on it, some frees bio. Freese wasn't in the ring. That old man smell put that on there and finished the game. It's called that bio that uh that that bio stuff. Cream of Jesus left the cream of Jesus on. So I go on there, man, and we finished the game. And it's called the Holy War. In Utah, they always play by you and b y U and Utah always play

around thanksgiveing. Mom was in town. We won the game. We're going to the Vegas Bowl. And I'm a self adjuster self. Just here is somebody to try to adjust. I don't go to Kyra practice. I'm Kyra practor so I'm trying to adjust my neck. Man, I gotta cricket is getting stiffer and stiffer. We go to the doctor. I go. Doctor said, man, my neck is stiff, is getting worse and worse. They do an X ray. We're

just gonna do a routine. Next way. Man, before I get ten minutes down down the street, you need to come back, you guys. Before a birth fracture broke my neck, put me in the harness, didn't get to play. If you go back and see the Vegas Bowl, you'll see me. I'm holding up trophy and I was in the neck brace. You know, career and in in in question. So are you saying then that you believe you got injured because you had just a decrease in the fundamentals. You forgot

the fundamentals at that point? Is that what you're saying? Absolutely, I got, I forgot. I didn't not have the fundamentals. I knew the fundamentals, but I reach, I reacted and I did. I did not see what I I hit, and so it that's what happened. And so when you have these camps, typically these these young women that are playing, they don't miss the building the fundamentals. They have so much fundamentals they they hone in and every I did. I did three or four camps every year for eight years.

I did them all and not this isn't a brag. I did them. I had the honor of doing them on military brick basis. So I've done camps in Hawaii, Frankfurt, Germany, Camp Humphreys in South Korea, down to Fort Bragg, and it's still a constant, and it does not I don't care where I go. There's always three or four girls who who have the fundamentals, and I just think that's awesome, because yes, they may be not all. Some are more.

There's a few girls. I remember I was in the Element Sico and I saw a girl named Felicia, just Molly. Woppa dude. So Park put them polls on, put the whole eight piece right bucket coach law too with the side with what's prew punch. And I've seen some of the you know, some girls who are bigger than guys. What the fundamentals? Man Some some young men just they athletically gifted, but they lacked the fundamentals. Jennifer, would you

add that in terms of fundamentals and young women in sports. Yeah, I think he's absolutely right. I mean, you looking basketball, you know it's not it's not a lot of dunking going on, but the fundies is big and women's basketball and just how the game is played. It's it's two different games. But I do think, you know, women are really good at the fundamentals of sport. What was your

playing for college? Oh? Man, it was. It was kind of crazy because, um, you know at that time, I was playing a bunch of sports in high school and um decided to play basketball and hopefully softball in college. So and there was it was some bigger schools like men majors that wanted me for either, but neither wanted me for like both, like basketball, didn't want me to play softball softball didn't want to play basketball. So I end up going to it like a D three school both, right.

I had a great visit. Uh, it's a really good, you know, high academic school. So I went there and played both good career guilt for college. You had the opportunity to play both. So that leads me to believe the academic workload and playing two sports, how did you manage that? I always been a busy person, you know. Growing up. Sometimes I would have three different practice say

it's like after school for different sports. So I wasn't always doing the most so to have that, it wasn't that big of a deal for me to play two sports in college as an unpaid uber driver myself speak on it for the rest of the pea is riduculous. And sometimes I don't even I don't even get it. Thanks, It's like go here. Yeah, that's exactly how it was. Now. Jennifer called out your place a little bit earlier, and

I gotta I gotta pull her. Call bull. She's second all time and points scored for Guilford College women's basketball, so she had all these practices, but she was still put in the work. Oh for sure. I mean I was. I mean I didn't put in all that work to go out there and score, you know, five points a game, man, So I was. I was lucky to always be able

to score the ball. So um, I had a good time at Guilford, was fun while getting her bachelor's Sons and Sports management, and she got her masters from Liberty, So she's as athletic as academic, best of both worlds to shame. I see it. And yet all of that you decided to go because a journey. But it's a journey that I just mean, I just mean that is because you have all this information. You also coached. I

want to go down that path you were coaching. Also was a police officer, you know, as as they say, and you know back in the day old in Living Color, right, she got she's a layah. I get that all the time. Man, My friends are savages. So she'll take us through that.

You you you you end up being you know, playing balling out a guilt for college, and then you start coaching the basketball team, you know, started the basketball team, and then you coach that Greensboro College, you know, Lou Lou cool ten years, ten years and also doing what else? Why are your coaching? I was, I was a cop man, yeah, on the on the south side of hot Point to see you know what it was my wife point, So I definitely knowing, And I explained it all because m

is about that action. A bunch of hot people in hot Point are about that action. And I'm sure Jennifer could tell us. But when when did you start getting the I guess to back all of it when did you know as you were finishing your career at UH at Guildford, when did you know you want to become a coach? I mean, you know we started to leave

finished college. You gotta do something, you know, So I knew it went to be in sport, and I had some contacts already and I one of my guys to end up being a mentor for me, offered me a job at Greensboro. So that's how I ended up coaching and got into it. So, um, just to stay in sports, you know, keep that that competition, you know, as an athlete, you know when you've done sometimes you have to find a way for that to find that drive, that rush.

So that was the next best thing for me. Tell us and walk us through some of the things with everything going on, because I want you to speak about some of your experiences as a police officer, also as a woman of color that serving the community and what

you experienced, because I don't know what you experience. I don't know what it was like for you as a police officer, how you handle people, what you what you saw, what you didn't see, what you can identify with now being out of you know, being out of the of the role of being a police officer, and I just want to give you that platform, that opportunity because I don't know what you experience. Only you do, but you also know a lot of things about your role that

I have no idea about. Yeah, I mean it was crazy working on the on the south side of our Point, you know, we it was a lot and on Um you know, heroin was big at the time, so we had a bunch of heroin problems with overdoses almost every day. Um,

you would go to and just stuff in general. You know that the gangs and the the drug game was crazy, and UM, I think I definitely now see things from both sides, um because I've been profiled before, but I also you know, been a police officer at the same time. So um, you know it was it was a good

experience for me. One thing I'm thankful for. I think our training and high Point was as good as it gets, you know, like we went above and beyond the required States training, which is not much, you know, and I think a lot of people, if they did that or had the resources to do that, they could be a lot better. Because you know, sometimes I see things happen and I'm just like, oh, man, I can't believe they did that or like we never would they did it

that way. But you know, everybody's trained differently, so you can't you can't really uh you know, look at every situation they're saying this because it's different people, Um, different training and involved. So um, you know, I was definitely thankful for our training and you know, you learned a lot of since you know, those streets, man, stuff you can carry on in life, and like you said, you deal with people sometimes that they're worse, so it's how

to deal with different kind of people. And um, you know, we see it all and I did a lot, did a lot, you know, and how poor experienced a lot and it's definitely helped me, you know, moving forward and just you know in life. So um, definitely thankful for the person responders out there. But you know, at the same time, some people need to do better and you know, we need some things to change. Is it fair to say?

And I'm assuming with you moonlighting as a basketball coach and working full time job as a police officer, I'm imagining. I'm assuming and I hope I'm assuming a good way. Now. When you were coaching these kids that you were instilling things in them because you were seeing the difference between

the right response and the wrong response. Yeah. Absolutely, I mean it literally felt like sometimes I was in a double life because you know, say if I was working on first shift and you know things, I would do expirits during the daytime. Um, I mean just be insane like a movie, and then I go to basketball practice and you know, it was like a totally different world.

But definitely trying to you know, instill those values and things that I learned, you know, for the kids because they were in college, so it was important for them to learn some of those lessons. So what was the moment when you were both a police officer and you were coaching? What was that moment when you knew you had to choose. Yeah, that was when I got my

head coaching job at Johnson Welles and Charlotte. So, um, you know, when she moved a chair over to the head spot, you can't really be doing a bunch of other jobs. So when I moved to Charlotte, that's when I left the police force. How do you handle some of the labels in coaching? Now you're female coach in the National Football League? Congratulations, first Africa, African America put that label on it, African American time coach, you get you got a W two. First of all, do you

like the label of being first black female coach? I mean that's something that I can't escape because it kind of is what it is. So I mean, whether I like it or not, just gonna be there. So, UM, I don't know, I think right now, I don't really think that much of it, but something you know down the road, definitely something to look back on and you know, be thankful and happy for the accomplishment. Well, it's it's

knocking down barriers. I can truly say as the father of an African American woman in a year where I think there are a lot of first you have politics aside, you have the first African American woman to be vice president, you have an African woman, African American woman who's now the CEO of Walgreens the first time a fortune fifty company. Um, and then yourself the first African American woman coach in

NFL representation matters. My daughter looks at TV a lot of times says, oh Dash, she looks like me, and that look her being six me and being six that's big for her to see people. So I know it made process at as if I don't know how to feel right now, but you're knocking down the barriers to where she doesn't have to worry about being the first

in certain instances. So it's really big. So I do want to say where it proudly because as a father being in the house with black you know, being married to a black woman, raising a young African American woman, it is very big. So thank you. I appreciate it. I appreciate that it's big. You are a unique person, you are well worth it, you are competent, and most of all, your lovable. I'm Steve Smith Singer, I'm Gerald Little John and this is cut to It. Cut to

It with Steve Smith Senior. That Is Me is a production of Cut to It, LLC, Baltol Creative Media, The Black Effect and I Heart Radio. For more podcast from I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio Apple Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows from Cut

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