Trey Wingo

Then I look at the corner. Already know what potentially what defenses they will play. They saw us your alignment, the route I have, and how I should do it. I am able to look at that, fix the problem and then run my route. I look at life like that, and it's so hard to do well. The strive for excellence that you put on yourself. Let me tell you something that you are undermining, you are undercutting, that you're using the wrong words. Do you want to know what

I realized? I am. I am obsessed with perfection. I am obsessed with completing goals and getting tested up. It urged me because now I sit back and I go, I gotta slow down, I gotta stop. I gotta enjoy as we mentor each other that we do because of our friendship outside. We've had these discussions and we're getting better in perfection may not be able to be achieved, but one percent better every day. That's what you want to because I've been I was taught if you're not

getting better, you're getting worse, getting worse. Do you know how tough that is? Can you imagine going into work in football that is the common thing. You are getting better each year or you're getting worse. Here's a you want to hear a funny story of how I took that to the intgree of but wholeness, but but holes because I got it right. So each year when coach Fox was the head coach, we used to do these things in the off season and you have to come in and work out and they didn't have a test.

You have to run a forty, you have the bench press, you have the vertical jump, you have to do all that stuff. And eventually, because guys started getting hurt pulling hamstrings, so they just really did it to the weight room. I was into muscle and Derance I was not into lifting a whole bunch of weight, so we would have to bench. You have to test. So so the first year I did it, I begrudgingly did it begrudgingly. I begrudgingly did five one, two, three, four, five. Then my

vertical whatever it is, did my run run. Okay, I'm out next year. So you gotta remember, you're either getting better, are you getting worse? Are you getting worse? And if you're getting worse, they will what replace you? They would draft your replacement. So, being a unique individual, I am I get under the bench for us again. Boom one, two, three, or I'm gonna get you all up? Push it four, got it? Five, boom, got up to five, about to hit six, stopped halfway and said, hey, how many high

last year that's got? Looks at paper? He goes five, six, boom, getting better, bit and I got off. I went straight to the shower, got drafted, and I left. I got better. You cannot draft anybody to replace me because technically, yeah, I got showed improvement. Do you understand? I did that for like two more years. Every year the next year I did, and they finally said, don't even do it, bro is it you're good. That is how obsessed I am with perfection. Were I know you are saying you

either getting better work? So how do I show you and show you my unique way? Oh I'm getting better not by your evaluation, because I already know your evaluation is gonna be skewed. So if it's all about numbers and it's all about seeing paper wise, when they put you on the chart and they go did you get better? So you said better? You don't say how much better? You just said better. So it's funny. You know my

kids play, you know, played play station. I don't really play video games as much I used to, but my my name on my PlayStation. Guess what it is? Policy bender? Is that not a pretty accurate its super accurate statement. It's super accurate. What does this all go to? Man? It just all goes to. That's why I love this is my sanctuary. That's what I love about this podcast. And if you really verbalize what we all grow through

in life, you gotta think about it. Man. It is hilarious, it's traumatic, it's funny, and it's also sometimes we just overcomplicate some of the simplest things. I gotta you're telling me we're a National Football League, and we're gonna tell you you're gonna evaluate a test to safetiest players getting better. But you watch all these films and you know if this young man could cover, run, jump, or past, you don't need a test to though, Hey man, he got burnt.

As an analysts, if I look up and I say how many times is this player targeted as a corner? If I look at my prope Football Focus account and I look at and I find a research and grab my researcher, and they say, when this guy's targeted, the receiver is catching the ball six times. I don't need a test to tell me this brother needs to be replaced. Because if you're telling me right now for six six percent chance, if I buy a lot of tickets, I'm wanting a lot of Do you need a test to

do that? No? You go, hell, I like my eyes because when you look at the test, you you look at the eyes of Normally they say one out of how many thousands of people? Well, you know, you know what, we don't know though he might have been getting caught on sixty eight percent at the time the year before. So you got better. M h right, Yeah, that's pretty good, depends on what probably a different team though, why coach probably won't get fired. Are we talking about the Detroit lines? Oh,

I'm sorry, I'm sorry that all I've been here to. Hey, who we got coming from the Cut to It Podcast. We've got Trey Wingo, a sports media veteran who formerly hosted Sports Center and NFL Live. He's now the chief NFL analysts for Pro Football Network and the chief trends officer for Caesar Sports Book. Tray Wingo on the Cut to It Podcast. Our first segment is called get iced Up. We have no idea what's coming, and you don't either,

So SMITTHI ahead, get prified? All right? If you moved on to the block of Stesimy Street, Uh, who would you want to be your neighbor? And why old school Sesame Street not the new school old We were talking to Oscar the ground Big Bird concla have they changed? My kids don't really watch Sesame Street like that, so they've changed a little change new people. Yeah, they say street gentrified. I'm gonna I'm gonna go Elmo. I think why Elmo? I don't know. He just seems like he'd

be an easy neighbor. You know, I think in that situation, definitely not Oscar the Grouch, because he'd he'd just be annoying. Yeah, yeah, I think Elmo would be the easiest one to get along with it, just like he wouldn't bother you. You know what I mean. I'm going with Count Dracula. Oh that's a good one. Yeah, although all the time, yeah yeah, but that would get annoying. But you always gotta have a brother that can count. Though he knows his numbers,

it's true. One. I don't know. I just always always loved him. I couldn't. I couldn't hang with big Bird. You just he just wrong day, wrong time, wrong hour. And nothing's worse than scaring you than a big old yellow bird talking about it up. Yeah, well you you always well I can see why that would be a problem for you because you were always one of the smaller guys on the field, right, So you don't want to do with that in your real life. No, that

had nothing to do with it. Just had to do it a big old yellow bird just popping up on you. I don't do scary movies, man, You ever watched a scary movie like back in the day and then had to go to the bathroom or something like later that night and you hit every light. Do you remember that movie The Blair Witch Project that came out I watched. I watched that movie, and I also had to end. I didn't see that when I saw the rigging that would miss me up. Well, well here's the thing about

the Blair with that freaked me out. Okay, And then I went home to my house, which was backing up to the woods. I was the only one in the house, and I'm like, I'm legit terrified to walk into my house right and think about it, and if big Bird came out, what would your response? See, No, that's a hard pass for me. Hard, thank you? Hard Like ain't like big bird is armed anything like were you scared him?

You know, you don't have time to process. I gotta I got a big yellow thing around me when I'm terrified. That's no, I don't need that. Life is hard enough, all right. What's your favorite time of the year. I love fall because well a football b I grew up in Connecticut. Okay, so my favorite time of the year was when it's like it's sunny and the and the

sun hits your face. But the air is a little chili, and like you breathe in and that it gives you a little bite in the lungs, that low sort of combination of Okay, still warm outside, I can feel the sun on my face. But that little nip in the air and the leaves start to fall. That that's my favorite time of the year. I've never heard of a biting a long And I'm not sure that I want to in that conversation. Little chili, just a little chili when I don't know what where you pick that up from.

But I don't I don't want to do. But you look like you're dressed for fall right now. So yeah, you know you're looking real skish. I like this skate real skish. Yeah, I like it. Um, this actually is a golf jacket. Okay, nice. A lot of people know, yeah I am. If you can instantly become an expert in something, what would it be, Well, I sure, as I like to figure out my driver, I'll tell you that much over the place that place, you know, Like I talked to some of these these golfers and like, well,

I'm trying to move the ball left or right. So I did this and like I'm just trying to hit it, man, Like I'm trying to see it go that way. So yeah, there's nothing worse. Like I play a lot of golf, There's nothing worse than when your driver is not working right, because then you're just like you're scrambling, You're yeah, you're you're dead right like if you if you know, people say putting is the most important thing, maybe for for

prose but for amateur players. I'm try. If you can't get off the t the game sucks and it's just like, well, I gotta pitch it out or I gotta work it around a tree, or I got to have a bunker. If you can't hit a fair way off the tea, you're it's like being down twenty points at the start of the first corpter. So if you're not good off the tea, are you one of those golfers where you find yourself explaining your gain for the next two or three holes. Here here's yes, that smile said, but usually

it's not this bad. I don't know what he's Here's what what happened. What had happened was he told me that he said, once Trede, you're the best multitasker I've ever seen. I've seen you like do this while you're doing an interview and doing it. You can't do that when you play golf. You can't think when you play. That's why Dustin Johnson's a reight golfer. He doesn't think. Okay, So I think too much out there and I get in my own damn way and it drives me crazy.

That's what you're telling yourself. Well, because well what else made it? Just say I suck at it. That's that's always a good one. I'm not great at it. I don't want to be that honest yet, Smithie. I enjoy I enjoy golf, whether I have a good game or bad game. I love getting on the course, removing myself from people. Right, just did oh hey this happened. Sorry, it's good for just nine right now. Even I'll just do nine just to get back to the day. But

I enjoy it. What I really love some headphones and the driving range. Yeah, that that's interesting. You said that, because there's two kinds of golfers, right, there's the kind of golfers that just show up and play. I could be that sometimes, right doesn't mean anybody else, But but see what you're telling me is you're about the grind, because the guys that go to the range and want to put on the headphones, they're about the grind and they're about figuring that part of it out before you

even step onto the golf course. You know, I'm not even gonna go there. You know what, I enjoy the piece. Man, there's sometimes you I'm I. I believe this weekend I maybe get on the course and somebody's new album is coming out too, So I'm really excited to go through, go through a Dale's album and get on the drive. On the on the driving heard her, heard her performance last night, was recorded it, I'm going recorded it, so

all right? Last one, okay, favorite ice cream? Wow. Um. When I was a kid, there was a basket Robin's flavor called Golden Vanilla, which I thought was the greatest. It's just like extra vanilla. It was like extra vanilla vanilla. Um. But I sort of gravitated away from that. I like something with a little caramel in it and like something a little crunchy, whether it's Moose Moose tracks or some Oreo cookies. Give me a little, give me a little

vanilla with carm on the inside A little texture. Yeah, a little texture. I'm about bringing things together. Okay, man, that's that the unity flavor. What you see the way my stomach is set up. I don't I don't do ice cream, so unfortunately, I just before you found out that your stomach don't really I mean I probably do, like a maybe cookies and cream, but I don't. There you go solid, Yeah, ice cream, get out the way you seriously, and this is very You're like the first

person I've ever met who said he doesn't like ice cream. No, I think he likes ice cream. People around him don't, like, don't want me to have ice cream. I'm lactose. There's a thing that would happen, okay, black, he could have ice cread go well or when I do get it, like I gotta get like the super kids like my daughter me And she said, like my daughter just but even smaller than it, Like I just can't. I don't do a lot. Have you done the other kinds? You know,

a coconut? I just don't venture because now my mind is to where like I just don't really do ice cream like this, So I just really don't know. We've been in different places, like I'll never I'll never get never get it, man. I got one is dairy free, is coconut, and it's a peanut colada with pineapples in. It's like peanut colada gruggle. It's not like Sherbert. It's with coconut milk. So like the others, like the old school,

like your grandparents eat the Sherbet. Sherbet's awful, Subet, it's awful. You never saw your grandparents eat sherbet. Maybe it was just my slander. All right, mark that off the list. I don't think we're gonna get a Sherbet. What So Man, What's what's been going on? How's how's life been? Why? It's good, bro Um. You know, we're just keeping busy during football season doing a lot of stuff. And you know, this's my like, it's my favorite. Like I said, it's

my favorite time of the year. I I don't know what I would do if I didn't watch football. So my favorite thing to do is sit my ass in my couch on Sunday and watch all the games and chop it up with people. I mean, do you watch it's every game. I watch as many of them as I can. Um. You know, obviously the red Zone is the greatest in the history of television, the greatest thing ever. Like when Tom Brady was suspended for those four games in sixteen, that was the first time you watched the

red zone. He was like, Oh my god, how did I How did I live without knowing that this exists? You still you haven't? Oh, it's awesome. I mean it shows all your scoring plays. Yeah, it's it's football on every drug you can possibly manage it. But that's the only way to describe it. Just like rapid fire, bam bam bam. If it's great, if if a network, if a network took pre work out, that's what red zone is. Yeah, exactly right. It's like wa, wa yet a third and six?

So fare wait we gotta passare wait? They blocked the kick in Dallas? How did that happen? Anytime you cross over into the t once you're in literally once you're in the red zone, it will break to or if there's like someone's immediately in the score and play. So let's just say you know it's first and go from the two and in the seas. But it's I have the channel, I've never watched it before. I think I think you would like it, well, I think your internet.

Here's the only problem. I have to know some of the small details that other people don't pay attention to. So I that won't show me a red zone like it's I was gonna say, just so if you're looking for that, then you're gonna hate it. But yeah, for the for the person who's following their fantasy football team, like that's what people, I think, just I just learned something. There you go. Yeah, I'm trying to help doing doing

a fantastic job. But way before we go any for the can I tell you something about the guy you do the podcast with? What you tell you something about him? You will tell you. I want to tell your co workers saying, how do you know g what did Joe? No? No, no, just just so you know. Like when it was when I was at the end of my time at ESPN and there was a lot of off out there, some

of the true something not true. I got a call and one of my calls, one of the first calls I got was from Steve Smith and he said, Hey, I'm just checking to make sure you're okay. How much checking to make sure you're good? And I was like, I appreciate you I was, you've been somewhere for such a long time, and Staple, I've gotten to you know, learn and grow from you as well. And I just, you know, I knew when I saw that news. I'm I didn't want any you know, I did, I said it.

I didn't want any skinny. I didn't want to know anything that was a part of the business. Just wanted to make sure that man was okay. I was appreciated. How rare is that, Trey for I mean, you've been in sports media for a long time, You're you're that you're doing. We'll get into a lot of the things you're doing right now, but but how rare is that

in this media industry? Um, it meant a lot to me because obviously he was a guy that I respected and watched and played and we developed a relationship you know, over over email and tax and whatever. So oh, you know it. To me, it made me feel like what I did when he has been all those years, I did it the right way. You know, I always I was never a guy and this is probably good that

I'm not there. I'm not a hot take guy, like I'm gonna say something crazy just to see how many clicks I can get, you know, And that's not how I did it. That's not how I wanted to do it. When we were doing the show, you know, we would it was with herm and Darren Woodson and Mark Slayreth and Teddy Bruski. We would we would break down film and we would try to put reason to things, you know,

and so the why why is this happening? Like I'll tell you one of my favorite episodes of NFL Live Monday night game the Chiefs welcome to the Patriots and they kicked their ass. I think it was like fourteen. It was one of the worst beatings in the Bill Belichick Brady era. And after that game, everyone was saying, that's it, that's the end of Brady. He looks terrible. I had a buddy of mine that I trusted, said,

Helf he looked like Joe Namath for the Rams. That's how bad Brady look Okay, so every show was just saying this is the end of the dynasty. We went on NFL Live that day and I said, let's pump the brakes. Okay, I'm not gonna judge a Belichick Brady team in September. I'm gonna judge him in December January, you know, by the way, they went on to win the Super Bowl that year and went on to win a few more and make a few more appearances. So that was always my the way I approached it. Let's

not just throw gasoline on a fire. Let's look at what happened. Is it fixable? And I always try and play the long game, Always try and play the long game here. Like when people were going crazy after three bad games from Patrick Mahomes this season, I'm like, Okay,

let's just let's just pump the brakes. You know, we've seen what he's done for three years, and the first six games of this year where they were scoring more points per game, more yards per game, at a better third down conversion rate and a better red zone touchdown conversion rate than either the past two years, and we went to two straight Super Bowls. So I don't think

the offense is broken. Everybody calm down. I'll love cut to It, and I love it even more when you download us and subscribe and you can follow us on social media too. Smithie, where where at that's at? Cut to It on Instagram? What about Twitter? At? Cut to It? Facebook? Cut to It featuring Steve Smith singr what about online? And you can follow us at cut to It podcast dot com where you can buy merch and you can subscribe to us wherever you listen to podcasts. I got

all my answers questions. Um, yeah, I got all my questions answered. That's what I'm here for, a brother, Cut to a Podcast dot com. One thing I get caught up on, I think for myself is in our production meetings and all that stuff, and I get caught on

the um, how we want to crown everybody's great? Everybody everybody's done in fattash Me and Earth have have very great conversations on their be like, oh that guy is great, all right, he can't be great if if you're saying, well, we're paying him, you know, giving an individual I won't say his name. We're paying him twenty two million dollars a year. He has four years left and eighty seven million dollars and we have and we have to limit his throws. And he's a quarterback. How is that great?

That's not great to me if you're getting paid eighty seven million dollars and we have to limit your throws. Hm, hmmm, No, I'm not sure if we consider that great. But yet we talk about all these other guys, Patrick Mahomes, they're great, and so we just say the word great so much that now, right, I'll watch they talk about players, whether they're get in trouble or do something. They go NFL Star and then you look at him, go, man, I do be in the league three years. Right. We're throwing

around these names so much, the flowering language. We're given everybody roses so much that the guys who have not earned their roses yet believe now that they're great. Great example, DK Metcalf, here's my question. He's tired of losing that I heard, But catch that ball going across the metal, son with your hands instead of with your instead of the nice pectorials, you might might not be frustrated. Yeah. The thing that comes to round too as y'all are

talking about the sports media landscape. And I remember I worked in pr in the NBA for a couple of years right out of college, and I remember my director at the time said, people have it all twisted. People want to be first instead of being right. And that was man, that was oh eight. And it seems like this and all social media has done it's probably boosted that steroids. But it's it's clearly like, what's more important?

Is it being first or is it being right? I think gets Can you say something outlandish that people react to, whether or not it's whether you're absolutely convicted of it. It's about the response more than about the substance. You know what I'm saying. I think I think that. I think that's a big part of it. Oh, this went viral is almost a sound bite thing, right, You want to look look yeah, yeah, look at look at the

number of clicks or the likes or whatever. And that's fine, and people get paid a lot of money that way. But at the end of the day, shouldn't it be about something like I wanted to be about something? It was an oatmeal take yeah, yeah, exactly, Pour some water on it, watch the steam come up. You know, I grew up. It's pretty good. All right, let's get into it. Man Trey, Where are you from in a place you call your hometown? I was born in New York City, Um, but I grew up. We traveled a lot when I

was a kid. My dad was a reporter. Um he we it was born in New York than we moved out to l A and then we moved to Hong Kong and my dad covered the Vietnam War for Life magazine. He was a bureau chief for the Vietnam War. So we lived in Hong Kong for three years and uh, then we moved back to the States and I grew up in a little town called Greenwich, Connecticut, which was right outside New York City. My dad took the train into Grand Central Terminal uh every day for twenty six

years ago to work. And we grew up in in a little sort of bedroom community New York City called Greenwich, Connecticut. Did you take advantage of, you know, the way you were raised or there any disadvantages. There's no right or wrong answer, but I just love asking. Well, one thing I'm it's really that's a great question. One thing I noticed when I was a kid because Greenwich was, you know, Greenwich.

Just I've never been there, so I don't know. So it's Greenwich, you know, it's it's a it's a pretty upper crust okay. And uh, you know, having lived overseas, he's even as a little kid, lived overseas for a few years. And when we came back, we did a lot of traveling and went to India and a bunch of different places. It was easier for me to accept people that didn't look like me and maybe some other people,

you know what I mean. Like, I was very appreciative exposed the fact that I, yeah, I was exposed to different things, different cultures instead of just this is this, you know, And I think that was very I wish I had taken my kids and lived overseas somewhere when they were little to have that sort of same experience, because you do sometimes find yourself in a box, if you like. I have a buddy of mine who went to high school and went to two hours down the

road to college. After when college, went back to a law school in the same town, and he lives literally seven exactly. He's moved up to a bigger city, correct, and he's great, dude. I love him all the time, But like his whole world is in this little laria, you know what I mean. Like, I'm appreciative the fact that I've yeah, I've been to a bunch of different places and seeing a bunch of different things, and I

think it helps round you as a person. I really believe that, yeah, exactly, Like, for example, you know, we where we live now and where our kids with high school is also a fairly homogeneous place, you know what I mean. One of my hous well, yeah, I can people keep us most most most people look the same,

look like me. One of the things that I was most proud of was that when my son went to play college football, all of his friends did Most of his friends didn't look like talking about And you know, to this day there's still there's still some of my favorite people that I get to see whenever we get together somewhere. So you know, being in a locker room,

you can't overestimate that. You can't run away from it, you know what I mean, Like you're gonna have to look and deal with people that grew up in a different place from you, that have a different background from you, and you gotta find a way to co exist. And I think that was that was that was one of the best things about him playing college ball. And to you know, to this day, he still hangs out where he plays played at Georgetown, Georgetown University in Washington, d C.

So here's here's a great thing. And this may you know, in the context of it, non context, it can come off the wrong way. But in the context of it, when you when you happen to be black and you're around people or you have not been exposed, it's always enlightening to have someone that does not look like you come to the party because they bring something that is missing. Yeah, right,

and the vice versa. So basically what you're saying is when you have a barbecue, right, you gotta bring some black friends because they're just gonna bring some food that you're just not used to, right, and it ain't gonna be raising. But I don't do potato salad anyway. But I don't understand the raising things. Get that, Like why you want to throw those little turds in there, I

don't understand. I just say that. You know, I was raised in l a And and at the time being raised there there was there was all types of folk. But when you're talking about being at home, being comfortable being around other people, the people that are interacted with them look like me, same complexion, same thought, same mindset. And I think you now that I look back, I think that was a disadvantage because sometimes if you're if you are around people that all you all think the same,

then no one thinks outside of the box. And that's where the skew perspectives be be begin to be cultive. Wad it began to look a certain way. And what do I mean by that is then all of a sudden, I go to Utah and like the back black population is like five in the whole state. You're talking polar Yes, from where you grew up going to you're going to provole and and so one of the toughest things is when I first got there, man, I was homesick. I

wanted to go home so bad. I did not have any thing outside of football that was familiar to me. You didn't have that transition, like he said, it was so polar opposite. You go from l A to Salt to to Utah. Yeah, there's no there. There was no buffer zone, and it was no and and all the people that that looked like me. I was also too.

I was a new kid on the block. I was there competition, So they didn't welcome They welcome me with open arms, but it was kind of like it was like the you know, the side hug right and and that in that place, especially when you're nineteen years old, he's just trying to figure it out. So I think it's you brought it up, and it just triggered me to think about it, you know, Um, and so let's let's unpack. You know, I read this great story about you didn't know it, uh one Nickel for the insult,

didn't realize your father who he was Life Magazine. Um, he was there in the Vietnam War. To cover of the Vietnam War. Several times he would head into the bush for weeks at a time, and you just assumed you'll see him later. But clearly your mother knew they were greater risk. In fact, in the photo of his days in Vietnam, the man to his left of the photo was killed when his helicopter was shot down no

longer after the picture was taken. I pulled that out because I think it's really something that really shows, you know, the true essence of the word ignorance, of you know, lack of knowledge of understanding your dad, what's who he was. Yet he was bigger than just how weingo your father. He meant something to a lot of people. He brought a lot of things to the table, but also too,

he brought a lot of nervousness to your mom. R. I mean that that was the job, you know, and we were limited an apartment, and you know she would always get you know, upset when he would leave. And again like I did, assumed, you know, i'll see when you get back. But you know, we didn't have cell phones. There was no there was no internet. You know, he was going into the he was going into the ship,

you know. And and you're right at that picture was with him and his friend John Star and the guy in the glasses was the photographer and I think a couple of weeks after that photo was taking the photographs. I can't remember his name, but his helicopter shut down. Um, and you know, my dad's still friends with the other guy in that photo. But yeah, it was. And you know, the other thing was like like a lot of kids,

I played with army toys, as you know. And remember one day, yeah, one day, I was setting up my little plastic army men all over for a bad all and my dad had just come back and obviously seen some ship. And you know, he wasn't scolding me, but he was like, I just want you to understand, like war is not a toy, you know, it's not a thing to play with. So I mean, just be a you know, I was six. You know, at the time, you didn't understand, you didn't understand the adult he was.

He was applying to it, right, but he was trying to instill in me at a very young age that you know, there are toys and then there's war. Maybe the two don't always mix. How much did your dad his career influence you, whether it was directly or indirectly A lot um Like a lot of my friends where I grew up, you know, their dads were businessmen or bankers, or doctors or lawyers, you know, and my dad had

a different job. Like after we got back from Vietnam. Uh, he Life magazine folded and they said they kept my dad and three of the guys and that come up with a different magazine and they founded People Magazine. And I would always go when he had school, those teacher in service days, you know, I mean where the teachers had to meet and you had the dad oft from school.

I would hop on the train with my dad and I'd go into New York City and uh, you know, his office was right across from Radio City Music Hall what was then the Time Life Building on Sixth Avenue, and uh, you know, I would go up there and he'd say, hey, run this photo down to the photo department for me, and I'd get those little office chairs as a kid, and I wheeled myself down the hall and drop something off over there and come back. And

it was fun. It was different. It was interesting. My dad did something that was different then all my other friends dad's were doing, and I thought it was cool. And so, you know, I I have to think that sort of indirectly, just seeing how how much fun he had at the job and how different it was, it I think it inspired me to want to try and do something different than just you know, I'll go get an NBA and have an office job and all that kind of stuff. And it's certainly sort of been the

way it worked out growing up as a kid. I never heard dialogue and say, you know, I just go to school to get my n B A and go try to do what my dad does. So one another thing is, um, I was reading a book and I heard this, and we've talked about it before. It was something that said that he was a gentleman. I was reading a book and he said that he inherited his family heirlooms, He inherited something and man that you know

obviously in my you know, playing football. And as I've gotten noted, I started to realize, like other than playing ball, Like what am I gonna what are my kids gonna inherit from me? The more and more I do, these have these great guests like you, starting to realize as the sports world, sometimes as athletes, were such at a disadvantage because we focus so much on the skill of

the sport. There's so many other areas outside the skills sport, right, um, whether it's reading books or getting gathering information that has nothing to do with sports. And so just listening to you, like hearing you you were a kid wheeling down the hallways, radio City music and just bring your kids to work.

They for Tray was man that on everybody else. He's going downtown on the subway and getting off in there is all of this stuff and I'm not trying to you know, like you said, It's like I remember taking

my boys into the locker room. I remember my son, my oldest son, he was a ball boy for the Panthers, and then one of my other boys he was a ball boy for the Ravens, and that was awesome for them, right, But it's just that cool, that that part that we just sometimes we don't realize, and I'm realizing, like outside of sports, like what is really going on right if you're a sports guy and we just kind of get balled down with the of of the game, that there's

so many other things going on. Well, I think that's why a lot of a lot of guys that played like you sometimes struggle when ball is done, you know, because everything you did was such a time commitment and and required such a focus for you to be as good as you needed to be to keep getting a paycheck, you know. And I like, there's a do you remember the center Nick Hardwick who played for the Chargers forever. Um, he the first year he stopped playing, he was he

was lost. He was like, wait a minute, I don't have to be here like I've always my whole life was Okay, you know this, you got to be here at this time, here at this time, and you know this is the off season to do this. It almost overwhelmed him, you know. He talked about it like I didn't know how to plan a day. I didn't know

what to do, and it really got to him. And I think that's a struggle a lot of athletes have, especially in football, because it's such a mental thing as well as physical that you know, everything you did was about preparing yourself to be the best you could be to play. The season was all about getting your body and shaped it with stand the riggers of the season. That suddenly when you have to decide to do something else and you have time, you can kind of freak

you out. You know, well, I agree, I agree with you. Nick Harwick Center for the Charger. He was also I believe color blind, lost a lot of weight, had a great has great sleeve work. Oh, he one of the best sleeves. But I do believe he's color blind. I think that's the joke with the sleeve work that he can't even hedn't even know. I don't know, right, Good, good do get down to do it. Good? Hey Gerard, why did you get that T shirt? You mean, oh, yes, I got it from cut to a podcast that where

we have exclusive merchandise. Shout out to our guys at seven oh four shot. But yeah, you can go on, buy you a T shirt, subscribe to us whatever you listen to podcasts. Serry, what got you involved in? I mean, you've told us about your dad and being you know, um working with people. What got you involved in sports? I was an awful football player and I didn't play for very long, but I I listen. I can't explain why I've always loved football better than any other sport.

I just I gravitated to it. Um, I I wanted to be. I so wanted to be a football player like I want I would have. I wanted would have made me happier. But I you know, I just I wanted to do it like I was. I'd love football. I think the only way I can describe it is to me, it's the ultimate team game. Like baseball is basically a picture in a batter, Right, that's the confrontation, and if the balls in play, somebody else gets a chance to participate. Right. Basketball, if you have one or

two you're good. The best players, you're good. Right, you're good. Hockey or soccer, a goalie changes everything like you could have. You can have the greatest attack, but if a goalie is hot, or if the goalie is terrible, that just basically decides the game. Absolutely. Football is eleven guys in a huddle. They got to be on the same page. And if one guy epps it up odds, the whole thing goes to ship. That's what I that's what I

love about it, Like it's the ultimate team game. And you know the thing that I always say about football too, and and this is the thing that is lost in the days of fantasy football. Football as its essence comes down to this, there's one wall of men offensive lineman is going to try and dominate the other wall of men defensive lineman. That allows everything else to happen, everything else to happen, because if that that point of attack don't work, you don't have anything. And that's what I

love about it. That's what I love about it. Take us through the process in your journey to become true qing go because I first I'd say, come on and take the you gotta take the flowers while we give it all right, throw the bookcase. Um, what's funny. It's it's funny you say that because a buddy of mine just asked me to do something and it's it's out now. We didn't we A bunch of us wrote little snippets of our story in a book. It's called Where They

Were Then. It's available on Amazon now and it's me Kenny Mayne, uh, Scott Reese, Bilpito, Heidi Wattney, just uh Scott Van Pelt, a bunch of us talking about how we got to where we are. Like I knew I wanted to, Like give me an example. One of my first jobs, my first job out of college, I was an account executive at a PR VERM and d C. I had a really nice apartment. It was fun jobs, sort of. I lived in Washington, d C. It was great, and I hated it. I hated it one of the

office every day. This was before the Internet. And you know, I just read the sports pages and I quit before I could get fired because I know it was getting fired. I wasn't doing anything. So I went back and moved into my parents basement and I got a job at thirty Rock, uh giving guided tours of the building at NBC and all that kind of stuff. And so I made a demo tape and sent out wait wait wait, wait wait wait, wait, your your name dropping and just

talk first I get it. I get a job out of college and be a county firm quit am And I'm still I don't know how you do PR before the internet. I don't know how that does not wrap around how you did, Like where'd you get? Tell you how bad it was? Like I just in the press release? No, no, it was worth I don't know. I'm young. I'll I'll own it, I'll own it, but I don't. It doesn't make any sense to me. It doesn't. It's not even millennial. It's it's really how we communicate today, yeah, exactly, and

how you would communicate back then. We had to call Like, for example, one of our clients was Ford Motor Company and they were sponsoring this muralist. His name was Diego Rivera, who was very famous Mexican muralist, and the exhibit was coming through. It was my job to call all the newspapers and say, hey, you gotta check out this, uh, this exhibition of Diego Rivera's murals. They're incredible, but please

mention that they're sponsored by Ford Motor Company. Like that was like that was the thing that I had to do, you know, and it was just and you didn't do it what you didn't do it with excitement? I well, I couldn't fake it comes you gotta think, it becomes RUDIMENTI like you you're you're it becomes a monotonous you gotta do it everything, Young Young, the worst man, Young Trey Young, try wringle. I think his his caremeter was really low. It was not great, Bob, it was not good.

I was like, this sucks, man, I gotta find something else to do. We turned a Tito about the day again. So I actually was offered a really nice job by a guy named Mark McCormick, who founded the company called IMG International Media created sports market. We're gonna have to get a name drop count. I'm episode, I don't know, but he wrote, he wrote these two famous books Everything the Harvest Harvard Business School didn't teach you, blah blah

blah blah blah. So he offered me a job, and I was gonna like travel and go to the Wimbledon and help them sell their Wimbledon clothing line. And they had these very famous pens. Cross pens were a big deal and they also licensed them and all that kind of stuff. And it was good. It's gonna be a good job. But I didn't want to do it, you know, I was like, I have to try. Like whether or not I succeeded in doing the sportscaster thing almost was irrelevant.

If I didn't try, I couldn't live with myself, you know what I mean. I had to try. If I failed, I failed, no big deal. I took a shot. I didn't want to be that guy twenty years down the road sitting in an office, you know, calling people to talk about Ford Motor Company sponsorship of an art museum, thinking what if I had What if I had done this? So I had to try. So I turned him down, and I always tell the story because it was a

long road to get there. But you know, twenty years later, after I was at at ESPN, I AMG called me and they wanted to represent me, and so it kind of came full circle, you know. It was they offered me a job and I said no because I wanted to try this thing, and apparently it worked out so well that they called me back and said, we'd like to represent you. Take us through the process. How do you become? And let me pause before I say that, because today, being a SportsCenter anchor is I I think

it's okay. But back in the day, yeah, I didn't know for a long time that it was not live. It's it's it's a lot of work. I thought it would lives. Some of them were live, and I'm talking about just how it always when he always repeated, were follow you know me and my bootleg cable. You know I'm watching it right. We didn't pay for the cable every chance you thought they would, just just doing over

and over and over again. I show he did that was on show like when you got to ESPN like that, if you did the it was called the one Am Show, the one A because it went on there at one am and it it was before we had studios in l A and that stuff. You were there like until all the games were done. You know, like the worst thing you can hear is a rain delay at at Chevez Ravine and at Dodger Stadium. You're like, ship, we're gonna be here atill four o'clock in the morning, extra

innings in San Francisco. Um So, like one of the first times, you love this, one of the first times I got to do that show because you know, you're like you said, you're on for twelve hours, like people will watch and they'll see who you are. Um. It was when John Daley was going through his first about with Booze and everything. He had gone the year before the Player's Championship and like gotten hand, Murden messed up

the condo and there's just a bad scene. So he came back the next year and he was trying to be sober, and I wrote this poignant lead in about oh, this is gonna be his his struggle and all this kind of stuff. And at the line I was trying to say was right before he teed off, he got his coin signifying he'd been you know, sober, booze free for a year. He's been sober, right, But I typed it in. I said he received his coin signifying one year of alcohol free living, which was a really clumsy,

stupid way to say it. So when I got on camera, I said, right before he teed off, he received his coin signifying one year of free alcohol. And I could just feel the blood like rushing out of my face. I'm like, well, that's it. That's the last thing I'll ever do at ESPN. I'm done. Uh. And that we got to the highlights and the producer says, yeah, we're gonna be to fix that for the re air. I was like, new ship. I thought I was done. I thought I was done. So how take a student process

become a sports sinner anchor. You know, it's funny. There is no there's no like, there's no blueprint for that, Like I can't tell you, Like, for example, I never sent a tape to ESPN. I was working in St. Louis on local TV station at the time, and I got a call from the guy who at that point's name was Al Jaffee, who ran the talent recruiter for ESPN. He's like, ye, we'd like to bring in for an audition. I'm like, how did you find I didn't send you a tape? And he said, oh, I don't know. You know,

someone sent us a tape. But I didn't have an agent, so someone else had sent him a tape, like Kenny Maine infamously tells the story like he sent ESPN like a million tapes and they were like no, no, nopen. Eventually they said, yes, I got a call out of the blue. I have no idea how this guy heard of me, who say on the tape or whatever, but that that's how it got started. And then I got up there and I did some shows and some people liked it, and they moved me on to another show.

And there's no that's the weird part about the business, like there's no I can't tell people if you do this, this, this, and this. It doesn't work that way. Like you know, if you if you want to be an accountantor you want to be a doctor or civil engineer or whatever, you know, well you do this, you go to your grad school or you go to law school, and then you you know, you do your internship as I'm that a whole assistant somewhere, and then you get you past

your MCATs or whatever. There's none of that. Either they like you or you don't. And you never know what someone will like and someone won't like. So that's the hardest part about it. You know, I loved him, respected him great. Tell us what was it like to work next to him? With Stewart Scott? Yeah, Um, I always tell the story and it's sort of, um, sort of defines who Stewart was for me, and he's obviously a

very different thing to a lot of different people. Um. When I when I first started espn uh make a really long story short, some guy wrote an article about me and he sort of transposed some things and it made me sound like a total jackass, which didn't but there was a line there he said, I guess it's the new guy. You're gonna have to get Dan Patrick's coffee. And I was like, well, I hope not to be

the towelboy too long. And he put in the article Windo hopes to arise and not be a towelboy at ESPN, and so like it was insulting to everybody that was there, which was not my intent at all. It was a it was a it was a misplaced headline. But anyway, so everybody was giving me like tons of ship when I first got there, and I actually signed a towel and with nasty comments on it said they pick up my laundry, all this kind of stuff. The only thing Stewarts said on the towel was welcome. M That was

the only thing he said was welcome. And everyone else was sort of like, hey, screw you, new guy, you know. And he was very cool about it. And so we did a few shows together. And but like I want to be clear, Stewart I were not like best friends. We were acquaintances. We got along, but there was remember we used to do this thing called ESPN the weekend They did you ever go to one of those in Florida? Disney World used to bring everybody down for Disney World

Esping the weekend. How used to go to that? Yeah, so anyway, that's one year. That's when I used to give us, uh the tour guide and all that stuff. Yeah, absolutely, actually it was. It was the first year was I think two thousand to two thousand three when we lost Super Bowl. So yeah, I started. So we we did that for like ten years in a row. And one year Stewart and I got down there early before anybody else and we didn't have anything to do. So I was like, you wanna go play golfs go play golf.

So it was just Stewart and I and uh, you know, we we just started talking and having a great time, and you know, cart Girl came around, had a few cocktails, had a little more fun, game got worse, got more fun, and by the end of the day we were rolling literally and just having a blast. And you know, we did our whatever we did that weekend, and we came back and I saw him hallways at Bristol and said, hey, that was really fun. Let's let's do that again. He

was absolutely, let's do that again. Like two months later he got sick and that started it, and we never we never had that second round of golf. And I always say I would have given anything to have another day like that with Stewart on the golf course. And you know, I say that to just tell people when you say you want to do something, do it, you know, don't put it off because you never know, like you

never know. I take nothing for granted anymore. Um, And that's that's sort of where I whenever, whenever someone asked me about Stewart, I tell him those two stories that he was couldn't have been nicer to me when I got here, and we had so much fun and we saw each other in the hall and we're like, hey, that was great, let's do it again. That he got busy, I got busy, and then but I went to ship. You know, take the time. You're in an always on profession.

You talked about the one am sports centers. How do you unplug in an industry this quote unquote always on? That's hard, you know. Um, I'm a big believer in work life separation, you know, balance of church and state, for lack of a better term. I tried to when I wasn't working. And this is when the kids were younger, and obviously, you know, it was important, um to make sure that I when I wasn't working, I was present, you know, with with the family. And that was that

was hard. That's why NFL Live to me was the greatest gig of all time because it was Monday through Friday and it was my favorite sport ever. And I got to talk to people like Smitty all the time would come on the show and you know, and then but I was, I was there. I was able to get to the games. I didn't I didn't miss a concert for my daughter. I didn't miss uh. I didn't miss my son's games, whether sixth grade, seventh grade, high school, college, I went to all of them. You know, Um, that

meant something to me. You have to have something away, Like you can't just be about work. If it's always about work, you're missing something. So I always wanted to make sure there was something else that I was putting my my time and effort into. Who was tray Wingo off air? Sadly he's just as stupid, like I couldn't fake it if I tried, you know what I mean?

Like that they give you an example, like one year they had me do the NBA tonight and I was like, hey, man, I create this is not what I want to do. You know, I don't want to do this. I really I wanted to do something different. And then they said, okay, well we'll move you at NFL Live and it worked out. It was great. For fifteen years. I had the best gig in the world. I did the draft, all those

things I love, I didn't. I never tried to be something on camera that I wasn't off, you know what I mean, Like people will tell you you're kind of stupid, but all the time, you know, so, uh, it doesn't really change. I don't. I didn't want to be something different or portray something different when I was doing the job and how I would have done it, you know, Uh, away from the job. It's just a little a little podcast shop talk. Let's do it. You know what, what

do you think about podcasts? I think they're a waste of time, to be honest. But what do you think I love it because it allows me to do the thing that I want to do, which is to me. Stories and people are interesting, like games are good, but story like when why had you on? And how do I episode did very well? Did very well, by the way t Kio Spike's episode, I don't know why it's going through the roof, but oh it's insane. Um. That

just the story that I loved about you. The story that I loved about you is when you when you told me that your mom gave you tough love and you told her you were thirsty and she said, well can you spit? And you said, yes, well you're not thirsty, right. I love those are good stories, you know why? Yeah, man, that just hurts a little guy. Yeah that's a wound. But we'll talk about that. But you know, and then you also, you still we talked about your draft and

you still you brought out the receipt. You still had what people said about you going into the draft, all these years later, all these years later, you still had it. Well. Part of it is my agent said that when I tore my achilles, so he was trying to say, hey, if we're gonna do this, if you're gonna do this, you get better do it. Don't sit out there and just kind of have to do it. The other part is I still bring a lot of stuff out and

I keep it in my office. It gives me a great perspective when I'm doing television right to kind of see and see how like, there's so many fans that don't realize how much stuff is said about players in the evaluation process that when they come to the draft or they leave the draft they're not drafted. There's so many things said that you don't really know how and what and when and where, what's true, what's fabricated, what's

here say? And so I just love the fact that I was able to read it and how so much. One scout said this, Another scout said that, and is like, but I'm still five nine and this is what I present that, that's it, this is who I am. And so I just it's a great reminder. Sometimes I don't say it on team, it just kind of really shows me.

Thirty two teams, thirty two different UH general managers, ten plus scouts pro in college on each team, and they all have different evaluation processes that we would say when we're sitting there looking at it. You you you can say, right now, what is the process that the Detroit lines have gone through to get where they are today? And how come they can't get out of their way? Right? But how come New England understands exactly how to get the best out of everybody. Why why is this team

so much smarter than this other team? Right, they profit shared, they do all this stuff, but and they can't get themselves out of their own way. Well, it's interesting you said that, right, because the NFL runs itself like socialism. Right, they're all capitalists, but they all run out like socialism because they all split the money evenly. And that's the only way the league could survive. Like, there's no way

the NFL could have a team in Green Bay. If cities like New York and Los Angeles and Washington or Philadelphia and you know, Baltimore, we'll be willing to share their profits because Green Bay couldn't couldn't function, they couldn't keep up, they wouldn't be able to exist. So but when you said profit sharing, like, for some teams, that's enough, right, We're making money. We're good, you know. And other teams have different agendas. They want to win, Yeah, winning at

all costs. Will to hire whoever they need to hire? Correct? T Is that a Is that an Emmy over here shoulder? Fortunate? Yeah? So you you you've gotten Emmy's You've had this successful on your career. What are you most excited about creating in this new chapter. You're you're doing podcasting. I know you were Caesar's Sports Book. What are you excited about

in this new chapter? Well, again, like for me, it's the ability and this is like going forward forever like it used to be had to be on TV, like you had to be a thing. Now you know, you can put your content wherever you want to put it and people either will consume it or they won't. Um. And we've been very fortunate. You know, We've we've had over five million views on the YouTube channel and we're closing in on five and a half million in less than a year, which is great. Um. Subtle flex um,

just a little bit, a little bit, little bit. I like, I like telling stories. I like having conversations with people. Just I mean, like getting stuff out of my eye. That's okay, it's all good. I like I like the ability to decide who I want to talk to, when I want to talk to him, and what I want to talk to him about. Like I like, I just told you, you know, we got some Hall of Famers

coming up in the next few weeks. Jason Taylor, great story about him and and how he learned how he needed to put on some weight when he finally got to college because he was always this skinny kid out of Western Pennsylvania. Um, but I just I enjoyed the conversations and that's the fun part of it for me. Now I got to do a commercial with Halle Berry that was not terrible. I'm not gonna lie to you. Not terrible, not a terrible experience. Okay, you keep not terrible.

You got two married men told, and I'll tell what you want to say. Oh yeah, I understand. I'm not getting in trouble. Good for you, brother, Good it wasn't it. It was a it was a fun day. I bet it was. I bet it was good for you. Will flexibility. I like the flexibility more than anything. Man, It's it's it's been a pleasure. And then just just enjoy talking to you. It's fun, respect you. It's been on a privilege for you to come on my podcast, um and

just just a rock with you. And to be able to know when you're sitting around and you say, man, I want to check in with somebody. You know, uh, when your when your phone is not getting uh you know, stolen and hijacked while you're on vacation, Hawaiians. It's great, it's true. Still, it's true. Someone stolen tried to steal my phone, an identity theft the top and he's like see,

was like, why don't you responding my text? And like let me explain it, and he told me, because I'll check in, Like there's some guys I try to check in when a lot of guys not you know, have a full on blown conversation, which just like, hey, I just want to make sure there's still your number. Hope all is well, you know, especially during the pandemic, and it was good and and you know, and then obviously

when things happen. So it was cool. So appreciate. Someone once told me and a player once sent this to me a d M. And I thought it was cool. He said, really recognizes real And uh, I think I feel the same way about you, my friend. You are a unique person. You are well worth it, you are competent, and most of all, your lovable. I'm Steve Smith Senior. I'm Gerard Little John And this is cut to It cut to It with Steve Smith Senior. That is me is a production of Cut to It LLC Baltol, created

of Media, The Black Effect and I Heart Radio. For more podcast from I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio Apple Apple Podcast or wherever you listen to your favorite shows from Cut to It. Executive producer Steve Smith, singer co host Gerard Little John, talent in booking manager Joe Fusci, Social media team Wesley Robinson and John Show from Balto Creative Media. Cut to It is produced by Brian Falka Chevic and Meredith Carter, with production assistance by

Alex Lebrec. Production coordinator Taylor Robinson. Theme music by Alex Johnson, lyrics and vocals by Anthony Hamilton. You ain't heard about it, then we're about to let you know. It's all