Muggsy Bogues

It ain't fair to give the dog a big dumb. What's up, g Good afternoon, Smitty. How are you? I'm good man. How do you you feel like I'm getting interrogated right now? No, run, I don't really like that. I don't want to interrogate you. That ain't that ain't mine. That ain't my deal. And I appreciate it. Well, let me tell you what happened to me the other day, which enlighten me. I wouldn't hit the straights and I went shopping just because I struggle at times with getting

online stuff. And then it does not match. The picture does not match because what you thought you ordered yeah, or like the colors a little bit off, and then you're the that's down. That's why. That's why generically I'm not a online shopper because of that reason, but I will like my go to spots always go to like Northstroom's, NeiMa Marcus and Bloomdal's. You can never go wrong. Is what you see is what you get. Right, So going to do shopping. Wife call and said, hey, you know Tiga.

Tiga is my dog is a Belgium mount of She's about three years old. Lover her. She's a house dog. We love her to death. Right. Started Monday, she wasn't fell and good. She she threw up something. She'd be eating a lot of grass and and and leaves and so grasses helps so it helps settle their stomach and so they hack it up and they're all good. Tega didn't poop and she was starting to look a little bloated. So that was Monday. Bro By Tuesday she threw up again and we have to take her to to the vet.

So it took her to the vet, White dropped her off. I asked some stuff we were recording, lo and behold the vet is like, well, she isn't you know. We took X rays and did some scans and looking in there and stuff not moving. She usually using the bathroom. She isn't drinking, so I was like, let's just take her to the vet. So she's at the vet. Come about six thirty, they tell us, hey, we think she

should go to the emergency room. I'm like, okay, because she still her her she's still not drinking and she's starting to get nick put her to a I vy now she's getting bigger and she's not Yes, so get her to the vet, take her to the take her to the emergency and so they said they're gonna observe her. But they believe that she has some things in her that she's been eating. Do you know what they could be? No? I could not know what they does she eat? Sucks? Eat?

Does she you know? Underwear? Does she know we watch her? We don't just let her galivant through the house, you know, So you know you're ready. So she goes under the knife. They're gonna do emergency surgery and remove items from her stomach. Do you want to know what items? They removed? Some leaves and twigs. They said she ate as many leaves. It'd be equivalent to a small tree. My little doggie eight, my three year old Belgian malinoir eight. And I waited.

I waited because it's in a zip black bag. I put it on the waist scale. You know how much do you know how small and light leaves are? She ate four ounces of leaves that they removed from They cut her open, removed four ounces of leaves. I'm like why, doctor told me they believe it possibly was a dead animal that was in the leaves, and so she enjoyed the leaves because she was getting a little bit of that that you know that came on My dog then got sliced up about sliced up and remove four ounces

of leaves in her and twigs to get the tweegs. Now, the part that sucks is them. So I take Doocey and Doucey's daddy, can I say, body Tika before and I'm sitting there going if something happened to this dog, So before I take her, after we take it to the vet, you gotta take it to the emergency and they and so they called us. They did m basically emergency surgery because they couldn't she couldn't pass. It wasn't drinking. They did surgery like three in the morning, and so

that I added, like sign the paperwork resuscitation. If she goes on, I'm like, I don't want to, Like why do I have to answer this question? Like yes, I want you to say my dog, but I'm going to sleep thinking what happens if you can't say it's like a human in the emergency, the same type of questioning. It's like, so, yeah, that's that's so I had to stop one too, some time out of your schedule. It was like two days. So we got her and then she wasn't even in the morning doing surgery. Yeah, it

was pretty bad man. So so funny story in that the vet was telling us that they had some other procedures where and this is a funny story where they had a family whose dog ate a G string. And first of all, I don't know why the doctor's telling me and my wife, but she tells us this picking up conversation, she goes, well, yeah, we had a patient whose dog ate a G string. And I asked the I asked them the the mom of your of your little doggie, do you wear g strings? Ye? Say, how

do we connect? Are you ready? Mom didn't wear G string? Yes. The plot thickens and she goes, here's how to vet asked, did your daughter wear g strings? No? Because their daughter, I guess, was too young to wear strings. It was getting chicy. Oh yeah, this is like has been got in trouble. They're dogs, father, They're dogs ate another woman's G string shenanigans. So this is K nine Jerry Springer. Will you hang around the doggy parks? Yea? Here all

kinds of stores you might and you might get fleeing. Hey, what do we have to day? On the podcast? And cut to it? Coming up on the cut to a podcast, We've got Muggsy Bowls and he's not just the shortest player to ever play in the NBA, he's a fourteen year veteran, most notably with the Charlotte Hornets, first time all a cec A Wake Forest and overall great and iconic legend in the NBA. Muggsy Bowls on the cut to a podcast, Oh, thanks for having man. I appreciate

it well. Our first segment that we do is our icebreaker. It's called get Iced Up. It's random questions Smitty has compiled might be a follow up, might not be a follow up. Who knows. Just be ready for anything. Muggs anything, go and so Smitty go ahead and give him the first get iced up questions. Alright, which habit are you proudest of breaking? Which habit I'm proudest of breaking? Ah? Gosh? Is there so many? It's I don't have many bad habits. I'm just trying to figure out which is one that

comes to mind? Kinda right, are you comfortable with telling on yourself? No? No, that's what I'm trying to make sure I don't not not now happened? Plate right, I'm proud of habited. The most proud is habit I'm proud of, ah man, I guess what I gave up? Did I give up anything I should have? It? Gave up my jet food. I'm not trying to figure. Let me be Steve Harvey. Let's pass on that come back. So, if you were at a Super Bowl party and you've seen another guest double dip in the saucer, do you a

say something to that individual? Or be you don't say anything and you keep it to yourself. Oh, I'm hey, I'm saying something. You're gonna exp Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, you're double dippering, especially if I got to go, if I got to go behind you that. I mean that just lets you know that. Hey man, you know we got other folks here, you know, gonna be sharing the same sauce. You can't be double dipping. Yeah, I just

you know, I'm sure I'm gonna say something. I'm not gonna be the last I'm gonna paint double dipping the sauce. That's a no no. Yeah, well some people are double dippers. I'm particularly not. But I just want to know what you're gonna say something, or just you know, be selfish and just not go to the sauce you got. You gotta throw the flag on that one. Yeah, yeah, I'm going I'm going right at them. I gotta let them

know and call them out. I might not be you know, loud about it, but you're gonna the person gonna know they can't be double with it. But you're gonna call it out. Are you? Are you going to the individual? Are you telling the house or Super Bowl host? You gonna see? But I'm gonna do first. I'm gonna I'm gonna go to the individual because I don't want to just blast them like that. I'm just gonna go to the individual and let them know that you know, you

shouldn't be doing this. You know, you got other people. Then if I catch them again or that person again, I'm definitely gonna go to the host, and then the host is not gonna into our Is this host you know generally a dude that a female or guy? You know, you got to make sure I guess say everybody. Generally people have host parties. They don't randomly just do it once it's there. They're repeated traditional party, a repeated party planner.

That's what we do. That's what we do. And so you know if you go to the host, they will not and they ain't invite. Yeah. Well, I mean that's where that that's where the double dip twice come in. That when you do it twice, you know, once and I can you know, and I and I approach you and then you go do it again, I mean that's disrespecting a person's home and you don't care about anyone beside yourself, so you may not need to be invited back. And then all right, so I'm throwing I'm sliding another

one in there. What if the it's the party host. But then a party host and I'm saying, oh him, I heard that. But and I'm like, why are you serving this among your guests? And you got ahead double dip and then if I'm gonna approach you, then he whatever explanation they give me, if they didn't mean to do it, then they say, hey, you know, there's no thing. If it's a normal thing with them, then I gotta be careful what I do around them. Yeah, that it was a lot about the care that. Let's me know,

I'm not going back to the court questions. I don't know. I just raised my hand, um cast I know what what do you mean? I mean, what do you mean you act? How do you accidentally double them? Because if you double that, you're like that think half dip it right back in that right, Yeah, you know, because it all has to be a you know something that you

constantly do it. But you know, you give them the benefit of that doubt because you got people around you, like you tell your body think I ain't need to get the back then real quickly and you catch yourself. But you know, so that's the one time you may give them that make that little pass. But I'm telling you. You know, once you see it again, you know it ain't no dad, no, no act that that's that's part of that. Then that's are you a morning person or

an evening person? I'm I think I'm a morning person, believe it, and that I'm a morning person because the same I've seen, though, I want to get up and stop my day off a lot, a lot sooner these days. Six hours, six hours is enough for me. Now is the world travel? He got places to be? Yeah? Not now, No, not right now, that's very true. All right, So this is a twofold question. Uh my, my, my journalistic coach would tell me a double barrel question is not ever allowed. However,

this is my podcast. She's not on it, so she'll probably texts me later when she listens to him. Anyway, So what's your favorite season? And do you know how many seasons there are? Well? I believe there are four. Okay, Hey, I gotta ask because we we have had some questionable we've had some money like you know, so I just gotta gotta make sure, especially in today's society, you know, everything is you know, I seemed like as a given.

And it depends on where you're living, you know, so that's part of the you know, the environment all year around. But now I believe in season. And my favorite season, of course, is always gonna be the summertime. Why is that? He was reminiscent He had a moment jazz Jeff video a little bit like yeah, summertime. Yeah, a lot of things popped the mind for a second. But I know what that that happened. The summer's back in Baltimore. He went back. But it's the one for me, you know.

It's the warmth, that warm weather. So that that's where I'm gonna I'm you know, my hanging to for me. Well, let's move up before we get before we get you and died and all Severn stop it all right, We really appreciate you, take your time, and just we're gonna get down. This is an open book test. There is no questions. The only questions we're asking is about you. We want to know all about Muggsie. You know, who is Muggsy? What makes Muggsy tick? And so here we go.

Who is Muggsie? Well, I laid back here, you know, grew up in innocent of Baltimore. You know, he kind of you know, found his way in terms of trying to pursue a dream. And uh, he started off as Tyrone playing the game and as a kid still on the ball. And at the time, we had a show we used to come on every Saturday called The Bowery Boys, and one of the character names his name was Muggsy.

He was kind of a little small lead of his kind of crew, and I kind of had a little crew that we kind of grew up with growing up. But playing basketball, my boy Dwayne Woods, he saw me still on the ball and he kept saying that he getting everybody. Then he kind of tied the character muggy and mugging, and all of a sudden I was Muggy and actually hated too because I thought they were talking about my mug and uh, you know, I'm like manner that muggy man, you know. So but it grew on me,

you know, and then the vcame Muggy every since. Where are you from in the place you call your hometown? Well, I'm from Baltimore, Baltimore grew up in like say, in the city of Baltimore. And when you say you say the in the city, you know I was. I was out there. So and you've got a lot of people that listen and followed you give us a area of Baltimore because a lot of people are you know, a lot of people have known the wire and ravings and

all that stuff. But there, as I learned, there are so many areas, so many um places that you love to go during the day, and there's some place you don't stop to ball some more during the night. And it changes over quickly, I mean it changes quickly, but well on that path of how Baltimore changes geographically. But you know where exactly in Baltimore, because a lot of Baltimore is not known how beautiful, how widespread, how much food,

how much culture it has there. That is true. And I grew up then, as you say, right five minutes from where you guys were playing and law Fier Projects, which is off a Gate street and it's right two minutes from the in the harbor um. Yeah, and right around that your great street. So that's where I grew up. Of course we now we imploded there are it's pleasant. God. Now that's where a lot of kids get opportunity to go and play in the rec center where Under Armed

now has a recreation center that they revitalized there. Um so that's that's the rat that I grew up in. And when you mentioned the wire, you know that was the atmosphere. You know, that's what the atmosphere that we grew up in. And um, the guys and you know, but for us back then, we had the people more or less kind of keeping us away from the things that took place in the neighborhood. And but again, you've got some great posts of Baltimore that you would love

to visit. It's a lot of places that you know, again you'd be cautious to visit as well. We have to take a break and the morning thing, we gotta pay some bills. You got checks. I love cut to It and I love it even more when you download us and subscribe, and you can follow us on social media too, Smithie, where where at that's at? Cut to It on Instagram? What about twitter? At? Cut to It Facebook? Cut to It featuring Steve Smith singr? What about online?

And you can follow us it cut to It podcast dot com where you can buy merch and you can subscribe to us wherever you listen to podcasts. I got all my answers questions, Um, yeah, I got all my questions answered. That's what I'm here for, a brother cut to a podcast dot com. You know, for a very long time, Um, you know, I idolized Muggsy bowls. I even had when I was in I was ninety six. I think one of those years, when I turned sixteen

years old, I got a Charlotte purple jersey. Our research department pulled up that texture too, so I've seen it and I and the picture is probably up. And I was at six Flags Magic Mountain with some airpennies on phones. The phones pitive. I was stunting. I think I have I think I have some gene shorts though, so that kind of threw it off. So you had that was backwards, that was prior to Brace's so t you've had a

lot of space in them. Um. But man, you know, just growing up there and and seeing the impact, um, you know that you've had on a lot of people, including myself. So for me, it's an honor to have you on here is living here in Charlotte. I remember playing at the you uhould be called the sisky Y m c A. But if times I got the opportunity to play uh pick up basketball with us, I was terrible, but it didn't matter. I was playing with Muggsy boats um.

But I never told you, Bro. It was when we played a few times at the at the at the time it's called Bryce, Now it's called Sisky m M. I was at all of playing basket ball and just being in the same building with Muggy Bowls definitely chilled because you know, I really when I first met Steve, you know again, when we was at the wine and playing because you know football, he was a panther. He was small, but he was so aggressive and I used to always and men LJ was to sit around and

talk about how you know, impactful he was. But when we was playing at the why you know, I didn't realize how high he can jump. And you don't want to remember this, Steve. But when I think when we was playing, I don't know if I tried to give your alley you. I thought to you, you got up so freaking high, but you you missed the dunk. And I was like, I cannot freaking believe that. I thought I was going to display. I said, man, this boy

get up so high. Man, it's unfreaking even hot. How you just how you just get off and speak so lightly I'm always you know, I just ob used to tell him about that and when we was up at the wide, but now it's the brace. But you know, man, I really appreciate that. But you again, you know, you know how it is when we're small, when we're growing up, when folks are telling you that you can't do something, we just want to show them that we're capable of

doing anything. And basketball for me was that thing. And you know, knowing that I wasn't gonna get much taller, should I need that, you know, especially you know Multiball, that was the place that kind of gave me that that grit and that that that that thing that I needed to go elsewhere to become who I was. So um but you know, the belief and uh and names that I was carrying around in my head, you know,

nothing's gonna stop me. I'm glad you said that because my son is over here and they you know, they sometimes get on me right about playing sports on yourself. So I'm glad Muggsy who's witnessed it, because now when I played them, I own danna believe you had them. Now they like, right now he isn't even looking at me. He busy on his laptop. But how do that feel? You almost got an alley from Muggsy Bowls, like you know,

except part is I don't even remember that part. All I remember is I was on the court of Muslim. They end up playing and kept going, but I just sat and watched and just watched Muggsy play, like because I just remember that was a guy that identified with Because when you you said something that, let's let's let's

unpack that is you talk about size. People almost talk about our size as if it's a deficiency, deficiency, like it's a deformity, like, oh, you're short, so you got when you I hear people even now you talk about I studied so much ball, always like, oh Steve has that chip on show he got the short man and drown. Oh it's I mean on forty one, I'm short, But me being short has nothing to do with me analyzing the guy. If the dude can catch, if you do kids throw, what is my lack of how you have

to do with his inability to do his job? They're like, oh, short man syndrome all that what? I have always been short, flash and too because you know that you're short, I too, am short collecting three Nina. But yeah, that's that's already out there. So why do we need to be label on the short that you're he has a chip on the show that the chip is not has nothing to do with my height. Then you has to do with the the machine or the instrument that you cannot measure,

which is a man and woman's heart. And Jeerys have to show more effort because the guy who looks the part that walks through the door that looks like Tarzan but sometimes whereas more makeup than Jane sometimes And and it's like, so, you know, growing up in Baltimore, how did your I'm using the word deformity in your lack of the traditional size of a point guard of one or two? How did that impact you internally playing ball?

And see for with us, you know, and put another thing with folks don't realize is the i Q level that we under that we had. And that's why we can analyze and see things, you know, even before it happened and and kind of critique it in a way because the fundamental aspects of the game, you never get away from it, you know. And then once we understand that fundamental aspect of it, the natural ability that we

was gifted with. It takes over, you know, And I understood that as a kid, you know, playing the game as a small player, you know, knowing that I wasn't gonna get much taller, and knowing that we had tall guys that played the game, because back then everybody wanted did God's big gods bid goud? And for me, I knew the game, but I knew how to impact the game from my perspective, and to think about studying the

game understanding what that position called for. You know, as a point guard, your main objective is to get your team into his offense or get your team set up, and if you can disrupt that guy, that person on the offensive defense, then then you've done your job. And I understood that on the defensive as back of it, and on the office and the point of it. You know, learn how to drop or learn how to create space, learn how to make guys better, you know, learn how

to get your shot off of taller players. You know. That became an understanding that I know how to do. And then just to being able to play against the best, that was the understanding I felt like about play against the best if I have some sense against the best, then I need to be included with the best. And taking that mindset every time I took the court allowed me to keep climbing up the ladders them, you know, playing with some of the best around, especially in my neighborhood.

And then that's what it was, you know, law yes, against Masks and against bent Low. You know, we had some talent to players around there, and you know, when I got the dumb ball, fortunate enough for us, we had guys that just was toun enough to you know, to take their lane, to take their game to you know, to the highest level, you know, with David Wingate the Lake, Reggie and Reggie Lors and uh and Reggie Whams. So you know, it just you know, as we know, being small,

we just understood out. For me, I understood how to impact that game and not even why about the height differentials, because I knew, if I can impact it at this size, just gotta find, you know, coaches that understand the game of basketball. And for me, I was around some good coaches that understood the game of basketball that allow you know,

my talent. The showcase. You've mentioned Baltimore so many times, it's Baltimore really as bad as it's it portrayed or is it just those are just stereotypes from things like Steve said the wire or just house portrayed in media. Well, I got shot when I was five, you know. So I got shot when I was five years old. You know, I was got out, you know, snug out the house.

You know, I wasn't supposed to be out there. A little fight took place, and when all things that happened, and Old man Chester you know, manning his ship and pulled I was a double barrel shotgun. Of course, all the kids, you know, we ran and I've been uh you know. Of course I was unfortunate. I was one of one of the true kids that got hit with all the buckshots. The bullet missed me, but all the pellets that went in my arms in my leg and next thing I knew, I woke up in the hospital.

You know. But that's just the way it was. You know, we had that type of atmosphere outside of your neighborhood. You know, a lot of drugs in festive you know, uh, fights or things that just you know, one you know that just happened out to outside of you. But again, that was that was the that was the way of growing up. But you know, we felt like you know, Baltimore again, they said that a village takes to raise

the kid. We had some older adults in there that really looked out for us that you know, also kept in the in the right path. I want to I don't know if I should crack a joke, but I was thinking the same thing. I wouldn't go And they fighting. Also, you ain't you wasn't really average five year old inside, No, no, I wasn't. But the thing about it that, you know,

that was the advantage I was. Yeah, and I wasn't a typical you know, you grew up a little older ashod but you still you still that's true, you know, And it's just being outside. You know. My dad, my dad was you know, of course you know he was serious.

Of course my mom and all that was too. But Pops, you know, he had that street life, you know, so you know when his son gets shot, you know, that was that was a different mental, different mentality he had that where he wanted to go, you know, take care of matters in his own hands. But you know, lucky that we was able to they was able to keep him from doing it, you know, but he woind up going to jail. Anyway, when I was twelve, How many siblings did you have and what was growing up with them?

I have four siblings, had two older brothers and my sister you know who passed away in tw That was my girl Charad, you know she actually she was pretty well known in Baltimore too. She ran all the youth basketball programs as well as the football programs back then and uh in the city of Baltimore. Um. And then I had my older brother Chucky, who's uh he was down here with me and Charlotte. Then I got another brother who uh Anthony. His name was Stoe. We call

him up in Baltimore. So I had it was a toiler for But your sister was your sister was huge in Baltimore. Yeah, she was what she was well known and well respected um in Baltimore. You know. It's it's interesting as we were doing as as the research, my

research departners give me a lot of information. That was one of the cool things that I love doing about this podcast is I tried to wait to look at some of the research because even oh, you know, knowing guys are you know, watching them or playing against them.

There's so many intimate moments that I don't know. And I remember when I was first in Baltimore, Um, when your sister had passed, was I believe like the first year and the year and a half that I was in Baltimore and I was coming back and I was one of Freddie Gray. Stuff was going on, and so you were going up there for your sister passing, but then also everything going on, and I was going up

there to go back and forth for work. And it's pretty interesting to just to see how many guys are from Baltimore that you don't even realize, right, Muggsy Bowls Carmelo and I want to hear a guy that, Yeah, like a guy that is from Baltimore. Just recite, just

go off all these names of players. And I'm not talking about players have even people that we don't know yet all the well known, but I'm just talking about players that the icon from the icons that are from Baltimore, like guys that didn't even actually get to that point but was so talented. And it started off with guys by the name of Skipping Honey did Wise, you know skip Wise who was one of the first that made it.

You know, he played with go to State Wars and then you know went on with the bottle ball clause before the Pholder and Skips set has set a tone. You know, we had guys like l Gibson, Dick Richardson, uh, and then you know Ernie Graham. I know, you go from the Kevin Grahams and um all the way down to the Dwayne Woods, the Kachher which we call them, co Kevin Bush, Steve Wallace. We then had Hot Doug. I mean, you had so many players, and then from

the older Devil, the older generation. Then you bring it down from from myself and the Reggie Wallams, the David Wayne Gate, the late Reggie Lords. We had guys and then the same Pisell and Camelo Anthony, the Rudy Gave and you got. U mean, it's so many more that I'm just leaving out because the Mecca Basketball was so huge down in the city. Then we had little guys that was coming up and we've had called the crime stopped, the Lord killed car who weren't able to uh, you know,

fulfill his dream all the way. But you know and Josh Shelby, those players like that, um My Lord Nestrey was one of nariol bows that we call them naughty. We had so many times of players in the city of Baltimore, man that's still representing the city and well and then you know in the Moore uh the Montgomery area, you know with k D and it was guy you know so PJ County. So it goes around that earlier man. Um.

But had so many legends that played the game. And you know, you can't be missed by saying, you know, but we're mentioning Coach way you know, Coach way Head a lot of those guys that came through his organization, his program, and he mentored those people. I'm meant to those kids who said that as father figures, we did a lot of good to the area. Um. So we had guys that really you know played Keith Lord u uh,

I forgot a little Michael Lord, had Michael Brown. H then of course to the young kid that played with the Schicrugo keep Booth who hadn't made it, Um, I go ahead and give him a little shine, you know some stuff. But that uh, we just had a lot of players that came through that early and you know, got pop telling in Mark Wilson, Darrel Awards, Marty Johnson, Terry mo Terry Holsley, Keith Harmon, Eddie, Oliver, Mark Mathis, I mean, Maven Mathis. I mean, I could keep going

on Tellers. I mean, that's the That's how I was back in that all right. And in Baltimore you've mentioned the dumb Bar High School. Four out of five years in the starting line up, David Wingate, Reggie Williams, Reggi Lewis, and yourself all went to the NBA undefeated. You guys go undefeated junior and senior years. And yeah, there's even a thirty for thirty documentary Baltimore Boys on you guys.

It almost sounds like you guys were on the front end of all the a stuff you talk about now, like Chris Paul's team and how they went undefeated and and all that stuff. But really, how how did that experience shape you and start that trajectory of you going to play college basketball and eventually to the NBA. Yeah, we was, you know, we was fortunate up to be what fifty nine and no my two years that Dunbar um. We had some talented players. I mean Reggie Laws, you know,

he was our sixth man. Believe it or not, we had a gentleman by the name but Tim Dawson and Mike Brown who kind of started. But Red Red could have easily started, but that would just coach way of having another explosive player coming off the bench and where will be no letdown. Um. But that you know, playing

with that type of team really propelled you for college. Um. For me, you know, always made it a point that when the scouts came in to look at other coaches, I mean other players and practice, because mainly a lot of our scouts when they was recruiting us, they came to our practice. You know, they weren't like going to a game. They came down practice to pretty much you know, recruit us because our second team was just as good as anybody else's team out there, you know, their first team.

So but I made a point where, like all the coaches came into me and to look at the other players, that I made sure that they had they been talking about me on the way out, you know, So whatever that happened in practice, I want to make sure that I stood out and let them know that, hey, you may become to look at him, but I'm gonna be

on your art as well. So you know that was part of my way of letting, you know, get myself being recruited and put myself in that way because we had a lot of a lot of scouts you know, coming know now coming to our practice to watch them. But guys, you know, to participate my senior year, that's when it really you know, start the heat up a little more. Um. You know, I had an invitation, had scouts from UH Seaton Hall was recruiting me, had Virginie was recruiting me. I had seen how some so I

had some Boston University was recruiting me. And when wake Fast came in, you know, I took my visit and then ship that. Once I took the visit and they offered the scholarship, and once I saw my mom, you know, you know we could watch TV. They can watch the games every Saturday and they ain't got to worry about you know, getting in and go watch that baby play. And then a sec for me, it was it was

the toughest conference. And I feel like if I, if I go ahead and do this, you know, this thing could put me in a good situation, you know, one way or another. If it worked out on the court or not. I think it's about that time, just so I'll take a little breather. Good, let's get down to do it. Hey, Gerard, why did you get that T shirt? Oh? Yes, I got it from cut to a podcast dot com where we have exclusive merchandise. Shout out to our guys

at seven or fourth shot. But yeah, you can go on, buy you a T shirt, subscribe to us wherever you listen to podcasts. It's crazy you get the twelve overall pick eight to seven drafted to the Washington Bullets. That's a forty five minute drive, no traffic. Well you go Baltimore about leave Baltimore about after nine fifteen and forty five minutes back. Was it a gift for the curse

being drafted by the Bullets? But I always said always gonna be a gift for me because that's you know, I wanted to do it, just like everybody else you know did it. You know, all the big guys. Everybody goes into it. You know. Unfortunate, you know, Spud one able to walk across. You know, as small guys, we weren't able to represent the draft the way that we know. We feel like we need to be part of it

as well. And having that opportunity, you know, being selected twelve overall and then going to play right in your backyard, which is uh D c Up Street from Baltimore, I mean, that was another ultimate. It felt like the way that the world was lifted off my shoulders that night. But you know, playing in your hometown can be occurs you know, of course you got to have I had had about a hunted tickets every game, and at the time, I think the situation of the organization was kind of going

in different directions. At one point, I felt like, you know, West Unslandon was really committed to changeing because we had a lot of guys that was on the tell end of their career. You know, the late Mos of Malone made rest in peace, my guy Bernard Keen, had Darrel walk or Jeff my Own. You know, guys was pretty much you know, double digits in their career, was pretty

much on their way out. And we had a couple of young players, John Williams particular, who had two years in the league, and they felt like, okay, bringing me and they was gonna now kind of sent around the younger guys. But after the playoff and after my exit meeting, and Smithy you might know about exit meetings, of course

you do. Um having a conversation with the coach of the Gymlaze, they said, well, mugs, you know we were gonna we're gonna get rid of some of these guys because you know, we want to go into different directionion want to get more up tempo game and so forth. So by the time I got back to my my condo, I get a phone call from my agent, Sam muggs, how you doing. You're sitting down. I said, yeah, I'm sitting down. He said, well, I just got off the

phone with the bullets. I said, well, what do you mean, you just got a phone But yeah, I just left them because I have my exit meeting. I was just there, just just talked to him, and they said that you know, we're about to go a deef the direction and and we're going to kind of you know, bringing some younger players. He said, it's I said, uh, that's what I told me.

And he said, okay, well I just at home. He said, well, I could have got out the phone with him too, and uh, and I honest, And they just made a decision that they were gonna let you go to Charlotte. Charlotte Hornets. They called and they expressed interest in you, and they decided to go ahead and let you, you know, go through to be part of the expansion draft. And I said, hi, I said, what should talking about? I said, I just left West and I said, well, he said,

we'll welcome to the NBA. You know, this is the way business is conducted. And they decided to not protect you and they're gonna let you go to Charlotte. So I like, man, I was so pissed at the time, and not know what direction. I'm like, what I mean here, y'all just draft me twelve and we and y'all you just had a meeting and you said you're going to direction and then know what I'm saying, you send me away. So I'm like, what the Oh, well, welcome to the NBA.

What was that process? Like? What was that process like too? Because Charlotte as an expansion team, so it's a it's a brand new team in the NBA, Cordans, and you're in the expansion draft. Yeah, as you, I mean, you were trying to work through the process, but how does that even work? Talked over? Right? He just got drafted. It's still clear. Is this real? It's still clear? It ain't process. Yeah, it's still ain't clear. But yeah, they

got it. But you know it was tough, man. You know when you when you drafted that high and you felt like, you know, you you had an organization that wants and then what I'm said, they said that they don't, and I start feeling some stuff doing the season, you know, because they had me and manut you know, they had to till and the short of it. So you know, there was kind of you know DC, you know how DC could be in the media when things ain't going. So they was trying to make a well they're just

trying to sell tickets. It's a novelty act. Um. UH fans didn't want to show up. We still have a line about ten thousands twelve thousands at the at the games because we was at the uh and one, the m C I Center, the Capital Center them, um so you know back then, so they decided, h d C. They was getting a lot of pressure organization. They decided

to let me go, which I'm happy they did. I'm grateful that they did that because you know, coming down here, I had to regroup my mindset and get a different frame of mind. And and the good thing that we had I had del here because you know, Dell was young and j and Rex was young in terms of the team the players that we had, even though we had some older guys and Kelly Trapuka and Rex, I mean,

and then Kirk Rambis and Earl Kurtin and those guys. Um. But the funny thing about is that our coach dig Harder, Dick was one of the funniest guys that you can ever have as a coach. I'm gonna give you example. At one of the games we're playing the Lakers, and the Lakers you know, magic and um they pretty much having that having doing having that way with us. Showtime. It was up by like about twenty at halftime. So Dick Harder comes in the halftime. He just comes in

and start going off. He just started start off with with a couple of guys like Kelley Chropruker, kellet Dropruker. Let me tell you, son, we brought you here for a reason. One reason. Over put some boats from points on the board, son, and that what you're doing, He's saying, fucking Dell Curry ship in order your man to help us. You gotta give us thirty because your man is going to get thirty. He said, let me tell you, son, assist on me. Shipn't his leave, son, and don't mean nothing,

he said. He went always down the crowd, he said, Dave Hopkins, he looked at him and just said, after you, man, He said, guys, do you realize you're a bunch of guys Nobody wanted y'all bunch Nobody wanted. That's what I'm dealing with right now. A bunch of guys. Nobody wanted. How the hell are we gonna go out there and the Lakers. We haven't dealing with a bunch of guys that teams didn't want it. Want you guys and go

out there and run through the freak wall. And we had a guy by the name of Stewart Gray, a teammate he got. He was really pumped after the speech and we went out and third quarter he decided he wanted to pick a fight with James Worthy, and lord knows he was in the fight, all boy stuffing. Don't we left? It was crazy to where it happened, because it was that's Muzzy got into. We got shot, but

it was a different time, different teammates. We proaly came in helping, but it was still great and he still great. Was trying to make a point for Dick Harder at time, so we're like, ain't a black going out? Brown used the brown nose out the group? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was trying to get some brownie point after the season two didn't. Yeah, but that was tough time. Man, when you get traded, I mean, when you know happened that,

when you get traded like that. But again, like I said, it was a match man to heaven for me because come down to Charlotte really allowed me to you know, to elevate my career and take it to that next level. So you're in one of the most iconic sports movie, Space Jam. It's being released. There's a sequel coming out being uh Spirit headed by Lebron James. What was it like filming that movie? Lebron James? What was it? What was it like filming that movie? And then what's your

thoughts on a sequel? Oh? Boy, we had a blast fhem of Space Jam. I tell you, man, we was up there for two weeks and believe it or not, I had surgery a couple of weeks afterwards, and I didn't think I was gonna be able to, uh to do my scene, but they was created enough that they had a dollar when I was reading my lines and they pulled me on my dollar, so I was like I was moving my shoulders like I was walking. So

we was able to do that. But it was a blast, man, And you know, just working with the people who on the set um not knowing that it was gonna turn out be such an iconic classic movie that it wound up band you know, MJ didn't an amazing John, working with the Looney Champs and with the computers and the improps and all that stuff. Uh, and knowing that you're about to have a space jam two. I want to

know what they're gonna save. You know, we saved the planet, so you know, I'm extry to see what's gonna happen. You know, it's our time, man. We we played the university, everybody, Yeah, and you got one more. Y'all save the world. So now it's got to be something about the university. M M, yeah, that's what it's gonna be. I'm christ something. Probably they got that about knowing Lebron and balls probably is about the university. All right, Well, we're getting ready to close

you out. But one last segment that we have is called the Deep three. And and really what we try to do in this segment is ask you questions that go beyond you being a basketball player, beyond your jersey. So Smitty give him the first question of the Deep three. What is the biggest lesson? Your brother? Chucky taught you that I don't drink. That's the biggest lesson I can learn from him. Don't drink. He is one of the

luscious drinkers. Eye's ever. That's the whole screw right there, lush from six from from six from six in the morning to don down't even done for sixty seven years? What What do people not know about mugsy boats? What do they not know? People don't well that I've I have caught, I have I have went deep seat fishing one time and I called them all. He didn't call

an animal bigger than holding about? Hey, all right, So I mean, last one, what has the basketball court allowed you two unplugged from that's really made you either very sad or feel lonely. That a lot of fans don't realize that had what's going on in your life outside of the basketball court as a human being worship. That was my safe haven. Now once I got on the court,

I was able to escape. No, I mean the world was gone and that was became That was one of the where I was able to escape, you know, and it was you You're very priceless. You know, you can't put the value on that. You know, once you get out there in that zone and you're thinking nothing about the sport and the joy of the sport and the passion of the sport within itself, and the rest of the world doesn't even exist. I mean where we came from.

I mean we wanted, you know, exclude as much as we possibly can, you know, and I had to focus on the thing that was, you know, was surrounding us. So that's became now safe haven, and it became and allowed me to become who I am because without that, without being able to have that place to escape, no telling where Monkey would have been or where Tyrone Curtis Bogs would have been, you know, no telling um that And like I said, you can't put a price tag on that because it allowed me to get away for

so many things. That was happening in my life. Uh, take away so many negative thoughts just a half So I thought that was I didn't supposed to be there. It just it just did all of that, and it allowed me to forget about negativity or even though if people even talking about how short you are, you know, I'll still you out there competing. And then when you're competing in those lines, you know, you ain't thinking about that type of all right drama that's going on in life.

You know, you just out there thinking about passed that hand. So that's an excellent question that you know that pretty much. Uh, you know, like I said, you can't put a price tag on what that became to me. You know, like I said, it was my safe haven. Thank you for the opportunity to talk to my childhood heroe, a guy that um I looked up to, um my guy that UM I remember my mom and dad. You know, they worked a lot of a lot of hours to be

able to give me that jersey. And it was really cool to be able to talk to a guy that I remember. Was it now twenty some years ago to that opportunity to shoot hoops with and sitting there marvel So it's pretty cool. I got to talk to Muggsy Bowls on my podcast, but really I'm talking to my hero man. So thank you for forgiving me that time. And man, it touch me, big fellow, Thank you man. I appreciate you guys have me and Steve you you

know what you mean to me, Big Feller. You mean you mean that you've done for the Center, for this city and all you've done for me and my family. And any time I you know, actually you know, to call on you, to ask you to, you know, take part of anything. Man, you don't hesitate, you come on, and I really appreciate that. My brother, Man, thanks for having me on your show. Man, it's it really humbles me, you know you guys and it's like, and you know, allow me to come on and take part of you guys.

Shall I appreciate that The theme of escape came up a couple of times. What are the top three things you were escaping from on the field? Our producer Meredith makes you think, you know, it's it's funny, it's the question. Is the question. The answer you're gonna get is probably not the answer that she thought. I love the chaos of football. I've heard you said that before. I did not want to escape anything. I thrive. I thrived in the chaos two minutes was the best disfunctional operation that

is known as mankind of football. And I loved it. So I wasn't trying to escape anything. It was exactly what I needed. I've heard from you saying that. Another guy I've been around, Stephen Jackson, he had a quote one time that was very along those same lines when talking about pressure. He said, I make love to pressure. And I know that that's a kind of a weird quote, but in the same sense, like most people would shy away from, Oh, I have to take this shot after this,

But you're saying I'm running towards it. I want the chaos. I'm I'm running right towards that. That's what I walked because it was how I grew up. So for me, how I grew up, it was exactly what I needed. It was a place of familiarity. It was comfortable. I just thrived in. And when I say I thrived in the meaning I knew how to manipulate the defense. I would jog off to be able to make the corner, drop off onto the corners and catch the hitch or I would go really fast to make the corner commit

to me or commit to the other guys. So two minute for me was a place of comfort. It was a place where all the chaos was going on, everybody was ripping and around and get the ball to the rapt I was just in my little crazy cocoon right off to the side of the other field, and the only thing I needed. Just give me the number, bro, I don't care what all bullshit y'all got going on. Just give me my order and let me give you your meal exactly right. And if you ain't hungry, too bad,

because you don't. And I just I loved it. Now as I got older, I didn't like too manute because it was a place where like, I can't keep I can't keep running with my head cut off all the time. But more strategic, yeah, more strategic, but I still thrived in it. But it was just a less It was less of a I needed it and I and I and I was comfortable in it until I started to realize that always having chaos was not comfortable. That is not normal for people. That is not a place where

you could thrive and be healthy. So for me, as for a long time, I thrived in it. And then as I got older and I got and I feel like I got healthier, and I realized that I don't always need chaos in my life as a form of a measuring stick of where I am right. So that's why, Um, I never needed a place they escaped the place that people thought they escaped for football. For me, that was that was that was life. Wow. So that is how you butting up podcast? We should do this for a living, hey,

I think so let's keep it going. You are a unique person, you are well worth it, you are competent, and most of all, your lovable. I'm Steve Smith Senior, I'm Gerald Little John and this is cut to It. Cut to It with Steve Smith Senior. That Is Me is a production of Cut to It, LLC ball Told Creative Media, The Black Effect, and I Heart Radio. For more podcast from I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, app podcast, or wherever you listen to your

favorite shows. From Cut to It executive producer Steve Smith, singer co host Gerard Little John, talent in booking manager Joe Fusci, social media manager Payton Smith from Balto Creative Media. Cut to It is produced by Brian Baltaschevic and Meredith Carter, with production assistance by Alex Lebrec, Production manager Sarah Pollock. Theme music by Alex Johnson, lyrics and vocals by Anthony Hamilton. You ain't heard about it, then, we're about to let you know. It's all