Mohammed Massoquoi

so cool. I just have to yeah. And it's it's it's that time of year. Were with a lot of things, a lot of things. If you I'll tell you it's one of those times where you know, I know, your appearances are starting to pick up, and it's want to travel a little bit more worse, things are starting to lighten up. But we've had a little bit of conversation.

What's a what's a common misconception when you're doing either speaking events or appearances or whatever it is for maybe a sponsor, what's a misconception when you show up to an event or whatever that whatever that event is? Great question, multiple things. One, Uh, I'm taller aside from the physical Yeah, people like, oh you're talling what I thought than when they when they when they give you some credit on you know, they're like, I thought you expect me to be.

I take that as a straight up compliment, sull. I don't know you said taller right. Um. The other is, uh, oh you you you a little a little thick, like a like a football player, like, oh, yeah, that's what I kind of did. Um. And this is the one I don't necessarily know how to take it. Take it as a backhanded compliment. Mm hmm. You're a lot different than what I expected. And I'm not sure what they expected and what do they mean by that, I don't know. I take it as a maybe you're not as stupid

as I thought, or um, you speak so well. Yeah, I mean I've heard you speak. You don't really sound well like uneducated on the phone. You know. You know how it is when you're certain, when you show up for certain things and you actually speak, people are shocking and you actually are educated in the things that come out of your mouth. So you know what, I think I want to show up to event as one day in the suit just sagging, sagging bag and berry in

the suit. You're gonna be abody back for that one. No, why is passed down? What a designer belt walking right now? People? Yeah, what are the what are the the I guess those misconceptions for sure. I was in there. I have been in a meeting where you know, I've been told that if I don't know, if I can't catch football, wouldn't

be his meet. I was. It was. I was in actually in a financial meeting um with a guy who told me, and I hate being in business meetings and people say, well, let me, uh, let me break it down for you, as if you didn't get it the first time. Oh no, let me go deeper. Please don't cut me off. Wait, touche, let me get your football in the house. What do you mean a football? Analogy?

Were talking about business like you ain't gonna be able to understand it another way, and so, uh my, my financial guy d c uh he when he's hears that and they do that, he always puts his head down. He's like, oh damn, they just messed up this deal. I've had people in a financial meeting talking about stocks, bonds, mutual funds, passive income assets, them being the liability. Let me break this down for football, and then they try

to well, you know I'm the quarterback. Oh god, you know it sounds horrible, right, And you know, I know your wide receiver, but you know we're gonna let someone else be the wide receiver. And you know you be the lineman, Rich I'm not blocking. Well I gotta be the lineman. Why does it have to be a football analogy? Why can't we just are you making me passive income? Soccer bottom line? So i've they didn't they didn't think you would know that. But then what was even great

about this is I think, oh, hey, oh seven. We were at a at a we were in New York and and we were at lunch and they start talking all that stuff. Then right before he goes to the bathroom, I said, well, you know, what's the raider on the return? Like, you know, what do you guys projecting? And you know, do you guys have numbers? And he goes, well, you know, I got use your bathroom, but just let you know, um, I mean really, you know, we're just getting started. And

then he went to the bathroom. I looked at me, I looked at d C. I said, what did you hear what he said? He says, I didn't know. I didn't know they want to be be their first client. They didn't even have performa. So you thought they thought that you were just gonna walk in there and just fall in love whatever they were gonna say, And you were supposed to just fall forward because you some sort of dumb jock, or you you're not you're not prepared

for the meeting, or you don't have the information. They had nothing. All they have was they didn't even the sad part, the projections they had were not even real projections because they had no performer. They had no actual history to be able to say what they could have projected for future earnings because you know, over the last couple of years, this is what they've done. So as you've as you've got an older, now you mature, because

I've heard you talk about this before. But as you've got an older, do you still sway to not necessarily get people what they expect? But now you're now you're more so? But do you think now more so? Are you trying to now break that stigma? Oh? Actually, yeah, as you're older now I have to because you because I get. Then it just shows how stupid I am, because then I start to play into the narrative. So now you know, I make sure I present myself well.

If I'm in a business meeting, I wear maybe jeans or you know, some slacks and a collar shirt. I still wear my hat flipped up, hating you know. Some I don't wear tennis shoes. I wear you know, I wearh some vans or some some casual shoes. Um. But I am cognizant of making sure that when I come to the meeting, I don't come um like I just came out of the gym. And so I do believe because also too is I also represent my family, and so I got to make sure that I don't present

myself that in a way either way that I come unprepared. Right, I come with and come with a pen and paper, be able to take notes or if I hear something that possibly rings a bell or I need more clarification on you know, I have. I have that. So I always make sure I come with a no pad and

give him that dedicated time. Dope man, breaking those misconceptions. Yeah, but sometimes it is, But sometimes it is fun to kind of play into the narrative because they will, you know, Like there has been times where I played the angry black man sometimes at the meeting because it's just kind of cool to see him like get stuck down, like what do we do. I'll just trying, just playing. I won't kill you, I won't I don't care. I won't care.

I won't care. I won't shoot you. But if you're still from out y'all, I whoop you as you just gotta play it a little sometimes, right, But it's funny as uh d c my my financial guy. I told him, um, back in the day, I used to watch it. I used to come from like from practice when he used to be downtown. So I literally would get off the practice field, jumping in my car and run to his office and watch him put in a call or put or put in the stock. And I will watch him

do it. Because you don't want to be the uninformed nona. I told him if he stole with me, Yeah, I told him, if you stole with me, I won't call the police. I come to got come to your house and get my money and some other folks money too. And he was like, well, Schmidt, I don't I don't notice that I said, okay, and so, but that's a running joke. He's been my guy ever since. But I used to I used to literally go over there and

watch him and well schools. I actually intern intern under him. Uh, but I was a different intern because when you got a couple of millions and he's you'm his intern. I ain't getting your coffee. I ain't gonna be These entry level job responsibilities don't really apply to me. Like you could listen, I'll call being, I'll do this, and I'll do spreasheets. But getting you ask coffee, no, sir, get your own coffee. Actually you're asking get me some car

because I'm still in the crimp sugar please. So, hey, who we got coming up on the Cut to It podcast. We've got Mohammed Massa Kuai, five year NFL veteran, a graduate of the University of Georgia, an entrepreneur, graduate from the Harvard Business School, and just overall good dude. Mohammed Massaki on the Cut to A Podcast. Mohammed, thanks for joining the Cut to A Podcast anytime, man, y'all some of my favorite people, so sure, thank you. Our first segment that we do mo is called get iced up

and Smithy will hit you with the first question. All right, all right, here we go. You're ready, let's go. All right? Do you believe money can or can't buy happiness? Yeah? Oh, that's a good, good question. I think that if you're happy, it will allow you to do certain things that bring happiness to other people. If you're unhappy, naturally they're gonna be unhappy with money. M M, yeah, it is money makes you more of what you already are. Right, let's go.

Let's go down the list. If you're ugly, you're just ugly with money, right. If you're stingy, you're just stinging you with money. If you're greedy or selfish, you're just a selfish person with money. Right, So money cannot improve your situation if you have a poor point of view, Um, would you rather be a boss or employee? Oh? Boss for real? I mean you gotta control your own destiny.

There's a lot of people leadership positions, and I don't always lead, right m. You want to be able to influence the trajectory where you go and hopefully bring other people along with you. If you've been shocked. If someone would say employee, sometimes I want to be employee. I feel like sometimes the boss says would be like the social media answering, Like everyone on social media wants to be a boss, but to your point, you know they're not.

You know what I hate more than anything. Mo, Would you agree with this because we'll get into it later. But you're a boss, but you have been, like me, been an employee. Yeah. Man, there are some days when the when the mortgage or the loan payment is due. Brother, want to be employee? I get it. I mean I get it. It depends on which lends you look out of it with. Yeah, you gotta be wired a certain way because things just like any glamorous when you yourself,

you got other people under you. But like that kind of responsibilities, there's things that you're accountable for. It's not the fake version of social media where people are written stuff and just taking pictures at things they're not at, like when you're really there, Like you know, there's there's people that that depend on you. So when that comes a lot of pressure, everyone says boss, but they don't want the responsibility of boss. Not heavy as a head.

M h, all right, A few more. Does truth exist without evidence? I think sometimes people know now what they do with the truth is a whole different animal. But I think I think people know um deep down inside. So does it exist without evidence? Though, man you need It depends like some people want evidence just to say that they I got you U or now I know for sure. But sometimes you're intuition. Sometimes even the fact that you question and something kid can can mean that

you know, that's that's truthful enough. If you don't trust something a way, UM, you know that that that may be an indicator whether you have evidence or not. UM to act accordingly to what your gut is telling you. I like that, I don't like that. So this is the last one. Now, this one is gonna throw you for a loop, But just sit back, all right. Let's getting to get into your character. Are you ready? I'm ready for it? Which character? I don't know? Depending? This

question is gonna tell on you. This question is gonna tell you. Are you character? Are you know? Is Mohammed gonna answer or is massa answer? It's hope one or the other. That's all you got, all right? So you're about to get into a fight. What song comes on as your soundtrack? I'm about to get into a fight. You're about to get to a fight. I'm talking about a Molly Wap knuckle knuckle right where in the alley in the phone booth, fi fighting the phone booth? What soundtrack?

Come zone bang. I'm gonna have to take it back like either like nuck if you buck or that's what I just like a lot of people get to ask if you buck back in the college days, so he might be he might be on something you don't like. That's a that's a fake one that now. I just think it tastes too long to get hyped though. Oh you won't shopping, that's just like reckless from the start, where you gotta put on some like you ain't got time, but hold on, hold on home, he skipping. Get get

past the first twenty seconds. Get me to you know, I used to have a teammates say he got to put on something Gucci, and he used to always say, it's the beat, so it wouldn't even be nothing that Gucci said. It was just whatever is they told and put on the beat is what put him in the movie. So okay, that's just good. You gotta ask what y'all y'all it's the two right now? If you buck back, what what are you'll playing right now? Off real? I got d m X which one? It don't matter, like,

how's it going down? As soon as it I'm dodge right with some type of uh manslaughter charges you know how m or like or tupac on me as soon as the beat go, you know for me California love Listen, I'm an easy date on the fist fight. It don't really take much. I whooped. Somebody asks right now with a with Purple Rain plan. Yeah, that's that's that's the thing, like, that's that's gonna that ain't no one fight and done. That's gonna stand to a couple of days. You start

playing that type of music right there. I mean, think about it. If you get Molly wapped listen in the Purple Rain, you ain't coming back you you already wanted them sappers dudes. It reminds me of the last dance where MJ was listening to Kenny Lattim over before. They don't take much as you are in a different type of assassin to you listen to Kenny Lattimer for a game. Man, you are you are straight up right there? Ye whoop you up with encyclopedia. Yeah, Kenny g We'll hit you

with the encyclopedia exes too. I don't even know what's in the X, but that's that's one of them. You'd be like, Bro, you got it. I ain't. I ain't even trying too with you today. It's like, Brian, I ain't even got time today. That was fun. You feel I feel warmed up? Do you feel warmed up? I love it? Man. That's that's probably like the dopest way to enter into one of these things that I have to say. You'll introductions better than anybody I've been with

and break all the tension, all the ice. We're not getting any gotcha. I mean, look, it's an open book test about yourself. If you failed, that's when you you had the necessary instructions in front of It's like you can't get the first four hundred points on the S A T which is your name. Look, you don't deserve to be in college. Okay, exactly? All right? So this is this is what we love doing. We we can ask this a million ways and we get two million

different answers. So where are you from and the place you call your hometown? Oh that's easy, man. From from the Queen city from Charlotte. Grew up in Head and Valley, you know, right in between Trying and Sugar Creek, and so home will always be the city. How did your hometown Charlotte impact and shape your perspective on how you see the world today. That's complex, just because I'm like verying too, and so I grew up in like this this weirdness of half of my I'm spent was around

Liberian cultures. The other half was spent in you know, the Charlotte culture. And so I think this this view of the world of just being like an immigrant in the city, um, and having these two perspectives have have allowed me, you know, to to be able to identify with people from from everywhere. And also I got a lot of pride and around from and so I take that pride with me everywhere, even though I live in Atlanta. I'm grounded by the things that I learned that Charlotte.

How did those two dynamics different than you talk about Liberian culture and then just growing up here in Charlotte, were they sometimes wanted the same that they sometimes but heads now I think it's all love, like it's just expressed differently, you know where um, I don't have no natural born brothers for the people that I grew up with, especially through sports, uh, from all around the city. There's just a lot of a lot of love. And with Liberia is very tribal um. And so it's the same

manifestation of love just in a different capacity. Uh. From food, you know, we did a lot of we call the fish rise and different things like that, whether it be African foods would be equivalent to like a black cookout. Um. And so just that aspect of you know, music, we kind of had to pull from all over the place because j Cole wasn't around, the baby wasn't around there. Uh, And so Charlotte kind of gave us like a a mix on different aspects of things that we just kind

of made into our own. And the Liberia obviously um a lot more established culturally and so intertwining that has kind of shaped me to people to put the person I am. Now we have to take a break and the morning anything, we gotta pay some bills. I love cut to it, and I love it even more when you download us and subscribe ends. You can follow us on social media too. Smithie where where at that's at?

Cut to it on Instagram, what about Twitter at cut to It Facebook, cut to It featuring Steve Smith sing your what about online and you can follow us at cut to It podcast dot com where you can buy merch and you can subscribe to us wherever you listen to podcasts. I got all my answers questions. Um, yeah, I got all my questions answered. That's what I'm here for, a brother, cut to a podcast dot com. Just walk

us through that though. The tribal the the immigrant culture that you had to deal with growing up in Charlotte, which is a very vibrant immigrant culture already here in

Charlotte that a lot of people not do not know exists. Yeah, you're from l A right, yes, sir, so just think of like people from Long Beach got a different, different pride about Long Reaching, people from Compton likewise, people from like other aspects and so in Liberia and a lot of these countries, um to have these tribal aspects, Like the area that you're from is just really condensed with you just do things differently. There's an overall arching um

support of the country at large. But then like the type of purposing that you represent, that the values that you represent the come with it. Each culture has different things that are unique to themselves. And so actually, um, I was having a conversation with my dad about this, and they're big on history, they're big on what what

they stand for. And we end up getting our DNA test And so I called my dad before the DNA test and he told me, like, the complete family lineage from our people coming from Moley and Sullland to Liberia, Avred cult surely on all of that stuff. And the DNA report reported all of that. And so when he's given me advice, so when I'm talking to my folks,

they're filtering it through what their ancestors told them. And I think and having that groundedness of the highest form of yourself, you are expected just to do amazing things.

And I think sometimes people that don't have that connection to where they're from, they're kind of influenced by things that are lesser degree themselves, and so they get involved in things that are are are pushed upon them versus being able to identify with the highest form of whatever if people represent, and so, um, those lessons has just

been pushed towards us. You know, how you're supposed to function, how you're supposed to treat people, what you represent, what your name means, UM, why you hear, um, what you're supposed to do. All all of that is kind of what I mean from the tribal aspects. So it's not just I identified with being from Charlotte and the pride of that, but it's it's like just a little bit more um when it comes to how I want to move around in life. You just broke that down and

I love it. So what based off the conversation you had with your dad? Based off everything you just said? What does your name mean? Man? So that's actually crazy because he's doing this forced him to have a deep dive and um, just like understanding the actual name where there's two versions. One he thinks it's like the head of the garden and you know, like people live off

the land there, so that's an important title. So if like you're the head, you know, leader of the garden, and you're responsive for making sure that everybody eats, everybody is supported, everybody is nourished. Um, you know, your your body is your temple. And so that's he can't confirm it, but that's like the last thing that he told me that one of his you know cousins had heard from somebody else, but he's doing some diving in there. But it comes with the title of being a leader. That

comes with the title of doing certain things. And so back to that original like boss or employee. It is almost like you're predisposed to be this thing because of the responsibility that your your family name has has carried and by default We've always had those conversations mean him my mom about being a leader and not being a follower. And now I'm starting to understand more of the the

meaning behind that. From a name standpoint, I wonder how the influence of having immigrant parents but also living in an immigrant community here in Charlotte, but also you are you are being raised and also influenced positively at home. And I was, let's be honest, a little bit negatively um out in public. I'm a dad, so I know there's sometimes I cringe at what some of the stories I hear that my kids are having conversations or or

or dealing with and having those questions when they come home. Yeah, especially the areas that you know we were up in, Like when I'm home, I still drafted those areas in in thirty years. They haven't changed. You know, you still see the same um auto shop. You still see the same fast food joints, the same check cash and play. Um. They got a light rail going through there, but that's not to benefit the people there, is for whenever they gentrified.

But back to the original question. My my family there there from you know, my mom's from a very rural part um Liberria. My dad's more from the city. But they didn't really interact with a lot of um white people, and so the idea of racism or feeling less than anybody just didn't exist, like it was just a foreign concept. This is before you know, we have instant news and ability to get stuff on Google and all this stuff. And so there's I was taught there, and nobody higher

than you. There's nobody loyal. You treat people all with respect, you treat people with dignity, but you don't lessen yourself for nobody. And you know what talents and gifts you bring to the world that Senate and all of us. It may shape differently, but you have certain things that that you contribute at a high level. So never forget that. And so in moving around being influenced by things that were last than that. They just didn't appeal to me because I knew what my potential was and where I

was supposed to go. And let's be honest, like, nobody want to be in the streets, nobody want to be doing dumb stuff. It's just that sometimes that life get ahold of you and it becomes your identity and you don't know how to shake it. And even when you try to shake it, there's certain influences that pull you back. And that's because you haven't really identified or tapped into the thing that you're supposed to be doing at the

highest levels. It's why when athletes come up out of that situation, they're so productive in the community because they finally see like what their potential are. Or you see entertainers that come up out of that situation. I just think that we've been limited in our exposure to what we can be because things that get pushed on us athletes, entertainments. But there's people that are gifted at a super high level. They just haven't tapped into it because the environments that

they come from don to support that. But if you're grounding themselves and that's been supporting you to express yourself, and let your gifts shine in ways that's not reckless or harmless to your environment. Then you you become what you're supposed to become. But you gotta be rooted or something. You don't just figure this out by, you know, wandering through life. We're all familiar with Hidden Valley. We're familiar with the places that you're from, since we're recording here

in Charlotte, so we know where you're from. But do you credit that your upbringing, what your parents are student you for not leading you down the wrong path as a kid When you're growing up in those environments, you don't know any better. So it's I think people sometimes stereotype those environments as if like the whole thing is bad, and there's there's so much good there and so I

take that with me as well. So there's a balance of hint, but there's also I mean there's good people like how I used to get to practice, you know that the neighborhood grandpa driving everybody around and spending time with us and telling us different things to how to carry yourself, how to take care of your yard, how to take care of little things, and so there's things that you grow up in that area, and you go to school with the people that that end up being

you know, um that don't pan out the way that they're supposed to be, and at some point they went off track. I mean we played in the same you know, school yards, we ate at the same lunch tables, but something happened, And so you can tell that it's it's not that people are just born that way. It's just sometimes the environment gives a hold of them. But it's only a small percentage. It's only a small percentage anywhere

people that are being reckless. But I think as that message is just gets pushed down that you're from here, wherever it may be in the world, Compton or South Chicago or Liberty City or you know zone, whatever you're from,

people take that identity and it's the negative identity. But just like there's the highest form of expression of being from Liberia, there's a highest form of expression of being from Component or from being from like the south side of the West side of Atlanta, from being hit in Valley, from being from you know what's being gentrified now but Beties four, like all those areas have the highest form, but they're so new that it people haven't had a

chance to see a whole generation cycle through. Like the drug gang stuff didn't happen in the early eighties. I think we would have been able to see that. But it's kind of like a lost generation because there's a people went to jail, people died, other stuff popped up. And now I think we're starting to get back to that, to where a kid can see, oh, this is what

Smitty looks like at however old you are. I don't want to put on age on you, you know who, rather one, So now I can see Smitty would have beautiful wife, beautiful kids, have been able to have not only the first thing that everybody wants to be, but to play at um, play at the highest level in the NFL, but also transition into a businessman. Like now I can see that, I can see the full cycle. We haven't been able to do that before, you know, um, so now we're being able to see the full cycle.

I think people can see, Man, this is dumb. I'm not about to be out here acting on reckless when I can do it this way. Or look at so and so over here they didn't even play sports, but they went to school, and now I can see him just because we have access to more information before we were limited. What were your day dreams about older Mohammed massacre? You know, as crazy as my mom. We used to drive through South Park and Quail Hollow and I didn't get it at the time, but it was my mom.

She was showing me what life outside of where we grew up looked like. And I would always want but like what do these people do? Like who are there? And obviously you never get the answers to those questions because you can't go knock on the door or whatever.

But I think that was the thing that created like a different spark, a different belief that I don't know what I want to do, but I want to function like this, not only in terms of monetary but just the quality of life doing something meaningful, to being able to not do laborious jobs that you know you don't get appreciated for. And so those early scenes that were planning was something that I've always stuck stuck to me, that's to being able to see outside of the environment.

And so I didn't know because I didn't see it, but I knew that even like how I approached education and what I thought about school once I got to college and knew I was going to the league. It was one of those things that, all right, even when this game is over, I'm gonna make sure that I can still function at the highest levels. When your mom used to drive you around in South Park and you wanted to knock on the door to see what's in there,

Now I flip it. What about the next Mohammed massa quad and he does get the opportunity to knock on your door? One do you open it? And two when if you open it and let them in, what do you what nugget do you give them? You know this situation actually happened about it? So, bro, I'm back right now. About a month and a half ago, young young boy from the other side of the town. He was here and he was carrying like a box of stuff that he was selling for his youth organization. You in Atlanta,

in Charlotte, I'm in Atlanta. So he from the west side and so he up here and it's crazy he came banging on the door. Yeah you got scared, nah Na, Like I mean you you gotta know how to talk to these kids. So, um, you just put yourself in the other If the shoes were I probably would have done the same thing too, you know, maybe not as hard. But I'm sitting there and you can just you could just you can see it on the face. You can see the pain in his face. You could tell that

he was trying to do the right thing. And he was like, man, I'm selling this. I don't even know what he was selling. And he was like man, I was like how much it costs? He was like five dollars, and so I gave him a ton of money. Uh, and it was through cash app. And so I'm sitting there and I'm looking at this kid is super hot here in Atlanta, and he's going around and I'm like, man, tell me your story, and he like, this my story. You know, I'm trying to do the right thing. I

just got out of the situation. It wasn't near my fault. And you could just see like this kid could really be out here in the streets. But this kid going door to door. And so I was like, man, here on my number, I believe in you. You know you're

supposed to be something more meaningful. Just trying to speak life and to him and just show him that somebody care and then his life, you know, it's worth something because a lot of times when you you get wrapped up into that and you're trying to do the right thing, and it's like, damn, these people see me out here then this nice neighborhood. They can't even give me five dollars.

You know, realistically, you see a kid like that, give me five hundred dollars, like you know, it don't fundamentally change your life, but it will fundamentally change his life. And just playing a seed that man, if I just keep going, if I keep like figuring out, if I keep connecting these dots, I can make something of myself and I may never see that kid again. He probably won't call me, but hopefully, like you can just plant

those little seeds along the way because you just never know. Yeah. Um, I remember Eddie Jones, the basketball player he for the Lakers. He got he was here and then I think he got shipped to the Lakers the vice versa. He was in the school. He didn't even get a chance to meet this dude. Just the fact that Eddie Jones was in the school was like meaningful. And I remember when carried cover he got drafted and he pulled up to um to watch his practice. And I was like, damn,

you know, like this is crazy. Is carried Cola you know he out there, uh, coming from USC when y'all used to come to games. Just like that little seed of belief, he creates the reference point. It's like, all right, I can do it. These people are human, These people got great hearts. These people are you know, just like

me in some capacity. And you start to see that like where we live now, where people were doctors, lawyers and different things, they're normal people like they might have had a different opportunities, but they're not more talented or more whatever that society would like you to believe. And so if you can just pass that on and help a person connect the dots just I mean, there's no telling where the person come become. You don't really travel too far. You get an opportunity to go to u

g A University of Georgia. Mm hmm. So Dogs and Georgia is one of the teams. They may be up and down different years, but they're they're one of those teams in the SEC that are you know, they're top tier, you know, you powerhouse. So you go from one powerhouse at one another. At the entry level of high school right, and then now the next level at another powerhouse, how

do you keep a level head? And you start to really just enjoy playing college football going to Division one not a little not too far from home, but you obviously in a big city in Atlanta, in Georgia, Athens where from hin Valley to to to Georgia. I think you know it's it's the crime Della Crimb. Would you say, yeah, it was a culture shock, bro. I remember we had

a golf tournament. This is, you know, before the summer of my freshman year, and I showed up red Dickie shirts, did Dickie shorts and a scheme shirt and like some white Air Force ones with a red check. I was playing south Side and so I pulled up in my first time ever on the golf course and I'm like, I'm super fresh, and you're super not like we gotta

take this kid to go change. And so you start to get acclimated just in like how the outside world works, because you're you know, when you play at this powerhouse, but it's not like you give money, or it's not like you travel in the world or you and fancy hotels or nothing like that. You still from the bus is gonna drop you right back off to your neighborhood once you finished practice, and at the end of the game, you don't come right back there and watch the news

um to try to see some highlights. So you're you're, you're. The quality of life hasn't changed in high school at all. But then you go to this powerhouse school where you can eat everything, you have the nicest amenities, you have everything. But mentally you're in that environment and so you either have to make sure that you you keep the good aspects of it, but then you refine some of the things that need, you know, improvement. And I think sometimes

people don't. They don't know how to make that ship to where they just they just keep their whole self versus growing and evolving. Not to say that you got to change as a person, but you know you have to adapt. Each time you learn something new, you should bring that with you versus just being tied to the old. I think it's about that time. Just take a little breather. Good, do it good. It's getting down to do it good. Hey Gerard, why did you get that T shirt? You

mean this thing? Oh yes, I got it from cut to a podcast dot com where we have exclusive merchandise. Shout out to our guys at seven or four shot. But yeah, you can go on, buy you a T shirt, subscribe to us wherever you listen to podcasts. So you're going from high school powerhouse and you go to u G a college powerhouse. Mhm. Now you get drafted two thousand nine, you get drafted to a nonpowerhouse Cleveland Browns. Man,

take us through that down grade. I played with seven quarterbacks in four years, Okay, Derrek Anderson, Brady Quinn, Jake Delane, Seneca cot Um, that Lewis. Uh did I name all of them? I think I think I did, But it's there's another culture shot. And mentally, it was it was stressful and it was I didn't I didn't understand what mental health was at that time, but looking back on it, it was depressing. It was it was. It was just hard because it was just so dysfunctional. And it was

not just nobody. I don't think anybody was like a bad person or or I didn't know how to do their job. It's just how everything came together awful. And so as a young player, you know, I'm in year one and after week four I'm the oldest receiver in the room, and you know, you don't even if you talented, you don't know nothing. You don't know how to be a pro. You don't know how to take care of your body, really don't know how to watch films like that.

You don't know like the savvy vet moves that that people get a chance to learn um and so it was a steep learning curve. And then we're switching quarterbacks in and out every week. It's just it's just chaotic. And so that was like a really tough situation. And I remember the next year, you spent all this time in the offseason, you're working, and then I got the big concussion, and that was another crazy year where we played Tampa, come out and have a good game, Jake

has a high ankle sprain. Then Seneca has a high ankle spring the week later, and then Coke gets thrown into the fire, and then before I know it, I get the career changes that hit from James Harrison and then you so you have like this this big dream of having like this crazy NFL career and then it just doesn't manifest in the way that you anticipate because it's just like everything is just like as crazy as you can think of and so like, and looking back

at that, it was a great learning experience of a lot of things not to do from an organizational standpoint, but also and how much you need just you need some type of structure and you need the pieces to fit together in a way that the mental aspect doesn't do more harm than good when it comes to performance. Especially you know when you got these high caliber athletes and they can physically perform at a certain standpoint, but everything around them impacts their performance in an adverse way.

The change your career, Well what do you mean by you changed your career? And you're not to go not to go about the head or any of that stuff, but just the psychological aspect of it, because a lot of people who may be listening may not know what you're talking about. That hit changed how the NFL view concussions. That's that was like the big weekend that everything started to change. And then the Concussion movie came out like

a year a few years after that. Um, but if you look back at all, like the clinic tapes and everything of like the the kit that that is the hit and I even remember our bye week was so it took me three weeks to come back from that. We played the Saints the next week. I sat out that game and we had a bye week, and then the week after that we played and I remember walking through the airport the second week we had on our by and Hakim was like, bro, everything sports illustrated, and

I was like nah. And as I'm walking through the airport on the phone with him, I see like the thing and I'm just getting blasted. And so when you get a big hit like that, your body recovers differently. I ended up getting three more after that to the next year and then a year after that. But when you start getting them like that, then you're like, man, I don't want to get hit. I don't want to do this. I don't want to do that. Um, the

recovery times longer. You don't know if it's psychologically. You don't know if it's impacting your performance. If you drop a ball, it's like them, you know there's there's something wrong with my blak or my brain. If you're fatigued, then you you know, have a misassignment. So it's it's

this this mindset within everything else that's going on. And so I actually go get I go up to UM ironically University of Pittsburgh neurosurgeon Mickey Collins and this team, they're one of the best in the world to get my brain evaluated every other year, just so I can

make sure that cognitively everything is there. But once again, you know, I remember having a good rookie year crazy dysfunction, and so you come into it it was like, all right, I actually know how to be a pronoun I know how to take care of my body, and in the first four weeks of the season are just crazy. And so then your play becomes more radic, and then you have an ownership change, and then you have another coaching change, and then you have quarterback changed. You know, man, what

the hell is this? This is crazy? Um so, so yeah, that that that experience was wild. You've mentioned this a couple of times now, but what was your mental health journey in the league and up until now you know much crazy. So the other aspect of it is I had a crazy accident in twenty seventeen UM and for

people don't know, I became an MPT. I had a TV accident where I lost my left hand and a lot of the emotions that I had coming from that accident, I recognized for the second time, Um, I had him in Cleveland, and I just didn't know what to do with him then, because supposed to be tough. You're supposed to be macho. You're supposed to, uh, you're not supposed to have emotions. You've got money, you you know, you're

doing what you love to do. You're in a position, uh that you're very blessed, and so it almost seems selfish to even be complaining about certain things mentally, And I know who to go to, who to share it with? Like, who do you tell me? Tell you your folks, they're gonna be like, you know where you're coming from. The you tail coaches, They're like, you're supposed to perform, tough, en up. So I just didn't know, uh, But in dealing with those same traumatic type of experiences, I was like,

I gotta go get help for this. And so in going to a counsel, they're going to have therapy and still doing now to this day, not because something's wrong, but just because mentally, you should treat your body the same way that you do it physically. You go to the gym to work out, so why not make sure your mind is working out in the same capacity. Uh,

and so it's a lot better. It's a I don't think like you're at the health has ever solved, because everyday life is throwing different things that you whether it be COVID or whether it be you know, work stuff, whether it just be race relationships, whatever the case may be. An ability to just stay in a great place mentally, um, with the help of somebody to help us license to

get you there. I think it's just smart, the smart thing to do so you can function at your highest leveling through if you don't mind your life changing event. April fourteen, two seventeen, I became an mput out just actually just going out there to clear my mind, UM, place that I felt really comfortable, just you know, forward

it uh with some of my closest friends. And I gotta say now that there's like there's date, there's danger and comfort because in that place that I was so comfortable, almost lost my life, you know, doing something that had a lot of experience doing. Uh. And then so I didn't realize that at the time of the accident that I've become an amputee. I just thought it was a bad break. Sometimes you know, the thing that makes it good athletes or sometimes you know, we're out of touch

of reality. And so I thought that, oh man, I'll just you know, rehab it. I have a cash. But I walked into the emergency room and the doctor was like, hey, Mr Mashico, gonna have to amputate your hand. And I'm like what he's speaking, you know, a foreign language to me right now. And so ended up having twelve surgeries to to try to save as much as possible and

got my thumb. But everything else is going. You know, you're sitting there in the hospital and you go from being able to do physically whatever you want to do in life to to you know, just being stuck there in the area that I was at. I still don't I still don't even know, like the breakdown of white people were in the rooms. But you start to hear cold blue. And when cold blue happens, I mean, somebody

just die. And so it gives you like this weird perspective of you know, you just had a part of your body that drew born with die, but there's people in here that are really losing their life for real. So when you walk around the hall again, you see a run and have family in it and life in it one day, and then it's prestinely clean, and it just gives you this this idea that we can't be out here just casually moving through life, because it can go.

It can go really fast. And I would look at my fingers when they put the whole thing back together after the first surgery, and you know, each couple of days, I would see a finger go from pink to black and they would have to amputate it, and I see another thing to pink the black, and you know, you do that a few times, and then they chopped the whole thing off, and then getting skin graphs and you have another procedures to go in and clean it and

doing all that stuff. You're like, man, this is like I don't never want to be in this situation again, so I gotta be intentional about how I live. And then you go through a pier where you're still in shop really where you're trying to piece it all together but it don't really make sense. And then I had a family friend tell me like, well, you gotta feel it. You gotta feel a full way to this thing. And that's when you look down and you're like, Damn, I'm

gonna be empty for the rest of my life. Damn, Like what is life's supposed to look like? What am I supposed to do? Um? Am I gonna be able to hold my daughter? Am I gonna be able to do this? I'm not gonna be able to do that? You know how I can? I can't even catch the ball with two hands. Really, I can't, you know, do this? Do that? Uh? And so when you come to that reality, that's when like the mental battles start um in minds. You you still when they cut you open, it's live

nerve endings, which feel like you're getting electrocuted. And so you've got the physical battle that you're trying to recover from, but then you've got the mental battle that you're trying to recover from. And it could be overwhelming if you're not getting the right help. And that's to the furthest extreme. But people got physical battles that they're dealing with, any emotional and mental battles that they're dealing with that you

can't see until I started to think back. This is when I start to think back in Cleveland, where I was like, I've had these type of battles before, and I didn't do anything about them, and I didn't get the results that I wanted. And so now I gotta make sure I do something about them. I gotta make sure that I'm going to get the right mental therapy. I gotta go make sure that I'm taking care of my body physically when I'm putting in and I'm flushing

out all these toxins from surgery. Um, make sure that I'm working out to strengthen my body all over again. Make sure that mentally I'm engaged. I'm educating myself so when I come out of this, I can do more stuff, um, you know, at a higher level, because I'm not dead, so I gotta come out here and make life meaningful. And so like all these things just kind of evolved over probably like a twelve month period through the recovery process, and so when I came out of it, I was

ready to go. Like it was almost like a crash course off season of recovery versus some of that stuff lingering with me. Now, what you experience was very traumatic and in Cleveland, and you said you didn't handle it right, and I remember me having a tragic injury, not to your or anything to yours. And I'm not trying to compare them, but I'm just keep keeping it as a reference, all right. When I when I tore my achilles, I ruptured it to the point where it was a double rupture.

So a double rupture is it tore in the middle, but it also tore off the bone. And they didn't realize until they opened me up that the top was at the bottom and the bottom was at the top. And he's like, and find out I had toured it earlier in the off season, so I had fresh scar tissue.

So I played pretty much like the first eight games where a slightly torn achilles m But I also remember psychologically there were moments where I literally just wanted to just scream, like just get it out of my system. But I didn't have the knowledge that I have now of like how do you articulate yourself? How do you vent your frustration in a healthy way where you have that grab your face in the pillow and you just let it go because you're you're carrying so much. Is

it almost is it? Is it almost like a grief process. It's not, it's before the grief process. So that comes along the journey love. Yeah, that's why I'm asking them. So you're looking at your as they do the skin grabs and and you said twelve surgery, so pretty much in the first three surgeries, they're they're trying to save your your fingers and they go from pink to black, meaning a dead nerve. That nerve no longer it's capable

and useful. As you're going through that, you're you've already stated you're mentally drained, you're physically beat up and mentally

canually go through that. You have to continue, and you're and you're holding on to your fingers like and I'm not trying to be funny, but brother is losing the opportunity to dig in his nose or scratch his back and now you don't have that with My right shoulder is constantly asked because I can't reach it right and before I even go there, and talking about your achilles, I always tell people when they come to me and they're like, you know, I don't want to compare my

situation to yours because you'res as much worse. I can't tell you what you're trauma felt like, Yeah, I just mean there are sometimes where you know you try to relay stories, meaning I've said this, I've said this to my kids a lot. And also the athletes says a pulled handstring is just as bad as a torn achilles because or torn a c l because the next or the last injury is always the worst injury until you

have the next injury. I'm just trying to fix. I'm walking through because I think you have the wherewithal because of the count, so that you have elected to receive and a counselor, and that I have elected to receive, which is you have a grieving process, but you also got the process of the what what the heck? Right? Where am I? Like, I'm in a like a shock bro, I'm in a wheelchair in the in the nice scooter.

I go from last week I was playing, I was I was bootle it on Dudes in Baltimore, And now I'm asking my my wife, anybody can you make me a sandwich? Like I can't? I got a scoop around, and I remember there were times where I was angry and I was piste off, like man, I could carry my own stuff and I can't. And it's like I got it, and and that's what I'm saying. Where was that scream moment, that time that you can go on

the pilling you like, I can't take this anymore. I would walk around the neighborhood volunteers just like, just like whatever came out came out because it's it's it's like your body is like volcanic and east erupt. You need to need to be able to dump that stuff out of you. You're holding onto a tension and you just need to be able to let it out. I remember justin Houston, Um, you played for the Coats now like bro six three to seventy, and he's looking at me like, man,

how are you doing? And I'm like, man, I'm good, and he kind of cocks his head to the south. You're like, man, how are you really doing? I mean, I'm just boo who crying on the man's shoulder. You know, because you like people that have been through something, they know when you when you you're baking it, they know

what you gotta go through. And so if you don't let it out, you go crazy, or you you can escape it, probably with drugs or or with some type of like the other thing that gives your out of body world experience with I'm not trying to be hooked on the drugs. I'm not trying to be you know, not myself. I'm trying to get back to myself. And so I just kept having these moments where, you know, my wife finding in the middle of the night, just like crying in a pillow, Like you gotta get a

up out of you. And then once you get it about of you, you gotta keep it about you with the right type of help. And it's it's you. Whatever situation you're going through, if it's serious to you, are serious, yeah, I don't. I don't care if it's a papercut. If you think that's crazy and you think that's like impacting, you go get the right house helped for it. And I don't have to be empty to you, don't have to be Achilles. I tell like, whatever you're dealing with,

I'm not gonna tell you. What you're dealing with not a big deal. It's a big deal to you. It's a big deal. But you you gotta you gotta let people in and you and you gotta let it out. If people don't know how to help you. Some people just assume that man that's Smithie like he's been he's been to battle. Of course, you of Coution respond from the Achilles, and you, like I do, Am I gonna respond from the Achilles? Like am I gonna be the

same version of the mode? Once my rehab is all the way complete, you question what the next step with the next evolution of yourself is, Um. And as you get further on the journey, you have clarity. But that's a that's a battle. It's not know just easy you know, point at the point B point Z type of journey. It's it's a lot of ups and downs in there. Well, we appreciate your time, We appreciate all your knowledge. We

aspreciate going down this journey of your life. And one of the things that I love and I wrote it down, there's a danger in comfort, right and and just you you're spending that time with us, Um, you're opening up the door living on the side of Atlanta that you live on now. But you opened the door to two young men were too, older men who are who are selling selling things as well. And you have given us a lot of knowledge and giving us your time, and man,

we just really appreciate you. Um. It's fun to hear and see what the The Independent kid is doing in life. Now you're doing some cool things, man, So thank thank you.

If you don't you don't realize that you've just been, you know, and being able to see you come and what you represent, you don't even know, like the type of hope and the seeds that you planned and even now, like it's crazy to think that the twelve year old thirteen year old we like we'd have some type of relationships in life and and so just like that, you've

been just a great human being. I just actually looked up and saw it like what time it was, and I was like, damn, we've been We've been chopping it up for for a minute. Um. But just like that goes to like the respect that I have for both of y'all. You are a unique person. You are well worth it, you are competent, and most of all, your lovable. I'm Steve Smith Senior, I'm Little John and this is cut to It. Cut to It with Steve Smith Singer.

That Is Me is a production of Cut to It LLC, Balto Creative Media, The Black Effect, and I Heart Radio. For more podcast from I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio Apple Apple podcast or wherever you listen to your favorite shows from Cut to It. Executive producer Steve Smith, singer co host Gerard Little John, talent and booking manager Joe Fusci, Social media team Wesley Robinson and John Show

from Balto Creative Media. Cut to It is produced by Brian Balta Chevitch and Meredith Carter, with production assistance by Alex Lebrec. Production coordinator Taylor Robinson. Theme music by Alex Johnson, lyrics and vocals by Anthony Hamilton. You heard about it, then we're about to let you know. It's all s