Let's Talk Ball with Jeff Gordon, Mr. Cheeks, and Muggsy Bogues

retired driver of the number twenty four car. He's a four time NASCAR Cup Series champion and he has the third most wins in NASCAR history. Right now, he's a Fox Sports analyst. Let's talk both. But um, you know football, so let's let's talk gears. There you go. So in talking these gears, we're gonna be okay with showing the lack of understanding. We haven't And for the listeners that may be dumb questions, but there's never a dumb question. You gotta you gotta, you gotta school me and Smith.

But there are some dumb questions. Yeah, they're really I just imagine imagine NASCAR one oh one, and you're the professor. Yes, OK, here we go. I'll try. I'm not a professor, but I told you how that I was in school for us, you are opportunity. Since yeah, did you have a routine while driving? If so, what was that routine? Yeah? I mean I think a routine is so important, but we're talking about driving a car though, well, I'm probably talking

about routine of prepping in the car. That's what I yeah, see that's what yeah, I mean to me, And you have to understand and and I'm I'm ignorant to to you know what your day would have looked like on on game day, but on race day it's you. You're with sponsors and fans, and you know, you're interacting with all these different people from the time you get up

in the morning on race day. That's just part of it, man, I mean it's I would be well, I mean, I don't know if it was hours, but you're you would go to three to four different hospitalities, suites or or you know at the at the race haller meeting five ten people that were somehow connected to one of the sponsors on your so you every morning that so so at first it was like, man, I can't believe I got to do all this stuff before I go get in the race car. But then becomes part of your routine.

You just got to get into the mental place of I'm going to talk to the people, but like I'm talking, they're talking through me. Whatever it was, I mean, it was hard for it to actually penetrate because I'm thinking, Okay, what that car is gonna feel like, you know, turn one. Okay, we made these adjustments from practice. So the whole time I'm thinking about that, but I'm interacting and I'm putting on a smile and I'm shaking hands and taking that by itself. It took it took a long time to

really get comfortable with with doing that. And then and then you go to what they call the you know, the driver's meeting, which is basically a bunch of sponsors and your dignitaries or whatever that are there. You're really not they're learning. It's not like they're saying, hey, here's how you're gonna drive the race today. I mean, you already had that out, all figured out. Race you know what a clutches But it was a big left turn.

But but what I what really became part of my routine later was was from that moment, from the time you finally got away from all of the distractions, was I would I would go do a warm up just you know. And this is more. When I got older, my body started failing on me, my back issues and things like that. But just I get on a bike, I'd warm up, do a few stretches, exercises, have somebody you know, kind of pushed me a little bit, and and then I would go get into my ratio form.

But it was left leg, right leg, left sock, superstitious, you know. I mean you could look at it that way. I think you could look at it that way. I didn't look at that way. But I'm gonna tell you what right now, if I have somebody, like if my crew chief walked in, he's like, hey man, what about I mean, put my hang on one second come back. So I did not want to mess up the routine. You know. I wasn't about like lucky pennies and like

a baseball player almost. I mean some like like like like eat all your yeah, like if you were like if you were a former picture like like backstage Joe. Backstage is a former picture who they knew he would eat fries and they would do various things with those figs. He still hadn't had because you know, you know, the fries had more to do than his actual velocity of

arm strength. It was, of course no skill. And now he has so much you know, like post traumatic that it carries over and like we can't we have to have certain meetings and we have to have certain post games and because the backstage, so yeah, man, that you know that that so that so that that became a place for me to just kind of get relaxed. So that routine, in that superstitition actually was a time for you to kind of reset to it. Okay, we're done

at the the sponsorships. Now we're in race mode. You still gotta go out and do driver introduction, but I'm just saying it's after driving introductions. The best thing that would happen was, and my wife would even tell you, like when her and my kids were there, because you know NASCAR, that's a cool thing about NASCAR's you get to interact with him right right until the time you get in the car. It's cool, and it's not cool because you know, you're you are in this game mode. Yeah, man,

I'm I'm wound up. Whether the day before went good or whatever our situation is. I could not wait to get in that car. I mean, like like it could be a hundred degrees outside. I'm sweating my butt off, but I'm like, get me in the car because i just want to get in there and get the helmet on, get strapped in and just truly get into that place.

And and that was if I miss anything now that I'm not racing, it's those moments like you get in there and the anticipation of getting the green flag and going racing and competing against uh, you know, some of the best out there. That and and with a great team, the great car that was. That was a cool thing to experience. Talking about getting in the mind frame, I've always wanted to ask a guy, especially because I know you've had some rivals. Now, I've watched you drivers sometimes

y'all hold me back, hold me back, man. I see you guys go after it. But I gotta ask you too, though, like have you like gotten to that fight mode? I'm off and then you you forget to unbuckle, I melt or you still got the harness damn harness. We get made fun of because we leave our helmets on. Like you get out of the car so fast that if you gotta get in a fight, you gotta take your helmet office Like, yeah, I probably shouldn't, but I mean

at one time I did. I've I've flipped over. Uh car was upside down, and especially in a stock car went it's upside down that you have an oil tank behind you and and there's hot oil pouring out that thing, and you're gonna, I need to get hell out of here. And and so you're laying upside down and you're like, Okay, I know I shouldn't be taking my belts up. I really want to get out of I bet I can get out of here. And you do it. Bad mistake because as soon as you unbuckled, you go, you go

straight to the roof your whole body. You don't wait, and the belts have enough straps and things where usually it's gonna catch on something. So now not only are you hanging, but you can't get undone. And oh it's scary, you know, it's it's like God, that wasn't very smart and so I tipped over. Um it was a slow roll at Daytona. Wasn't a bad accent, but it did go upside down. But I ended up upside down and so undid the belts. I was like, that was stupid.

They finally got the car right side up and I got the belts off of me, but I've taken my gloves off. And that was the really big mistake because as I climbed out, I didn't realize sheet metal had been all torn up and it just sliced my finger. So I get out of the car and they're like, oh blood, you know. Immediately they're calling, you know, people over. I'm like, no, no, no, it's just my finger, man, I just I just cut my finger. It's not kind

of great thing. It was embarrassing, but it's like, oh yeah, leave the gloves on. So what does what is uh a NASCAR rival mean to Jeff Gordon? Um, well, it's funny. It means something different to me now right now that I do TV man, we need rivals. Yes, it's like I totally when I was in it. When I was you know, like I had arrival with Dale Earnhardt and and he played it up good. I mean he he that he was a master that and me. I was just like, I don't want to have anything to do

with that. I just I just want to go out and do my job. I don't want to get distracted. He's just trying to mess with me and getting my head, get an advantage or you know, the media is gonna gonna take something and then I'm gonna have to answer those questions and deal. I don't want to do that.

I just want to race. And I probably I wish I'd have played into a little bit more because I realized, you know that the fans, what they love so much is they, like you mentioned earlier, they love to love somebody, that love to hate somebody, and they love it when there's a rivalry. It just it just builds more interest and gives people way more. The personal aspect of it, the human aspect of it is sometimes more entertaining than

the actual race. And we had to I mean, we had to fight this past weekend on on Saturday, not in the Sunday race. Saturday race, man, That's all we showed on Sunday was these two guys swinging, going at it. They swing votes, good nest questions. Wasn't intentionally amiss, you know, I mean you you connect with somebody, you getting suspended. You you know you get you probably won't be the next the next week. Yeah, if if they see you make make contact by throwing a fist, you're you're gonna

you can you can wreck a guy like I've done. Unfortunately, you can do a lot of things, but man, you can't swing and hit it out. So what about would you get suspended for open palm slap since you can't love it, since you can't punch. That's a good smart ask, the smart way to get around if you still keep the helmet on, like you can still smack somebody hard

enough and then well there's that right slapping competitions. But you can shove and you can talk smack, but I don't think you could hit him in any No, open open palm is disrespectful. Of course you'd say that dudes your locker room backhand somebody in the locker room. It's intentionally disrespect you in the locker room. In the locker room, you can do all you want. So is it fighting in Ah, Well, you gotta understand the locker room. That's that's usually just like the locker room to us would

be like at the airport getting ready to leave. They don't really have a locker room. Yeah, it's it's you know, you have your own individual trailer. But if somebody walked up into your trailer and punch you are that's that's so I want to revisit you backhanding people in your locker Why would you backhand somebody? I mean you're getting you're getting a little tussle with some one and um not gonna punch because if first of all, if I'm punching, then there's you know, we really into it. But open

for me? Why I was right, open palm is all disrespectful, but a backhand and that's like some old school like backhand, And so you wanted to show your disrespect, but you don't want to actually get into a real No, let me see. This is what you explain. You miss it. If I back hand you, I'm going back hand the right. So what comes next is when I back here, you're gonna come back, and that's what you're gonna catch that two pieces. This is how you orchestrate fight. Everybody goes,

did he just back hand you? Yes? I did? Is that like a player? And then here's the problem. When he realizes he got back hand, he's gonna say he hit me, like oh, and then he's going to approach, and then that's on the goes very quickly. Yeah, I'm bare. This is this is smoke one on one. First of all, if I back here, I have no respect for you, clearly, clearly no. I mean I don't really think that's a respectable type reading if you're back hand someone. Oh yeah,

he respect the hell out of him. I've that there's a point. I never thought of it that way. I never once thought it was like a warm greedi. I might just be mad at him. It doesn't mean I disrespect him. But if I backhand you, yeah, I just quite an education here on backhand versus open palm versus. Let me tell you something, anytime you're about to fight somebody and an open palm is done, it's not gonna go. Well.

So all right, Um, so we've digressed. But um I really want to talk about, which I think is really cool. You've had poles, which is unbelievable. Um, what what's the key to getting a pole? And when is the pole captured? Again? I know some of this stuff, but then I'm kind of like, I get I get the opportunity to talk to you. Great, and you are you have done and doing commentary and analyst work, but you also know exactly what these individuals are trying to accomplish. Yeah, well, first,

let's established there's no actual physical pole. We may even start from the begin soone may not even know what the so and and I think pole position goes back to like horse racing, where where there's like, you know, the pole is the other side jobs that require I appreciate you clarified. You said like that goes back to I was like, yeah, horse racing, Okay, okay, cool. Well I think it may all come full circle in some forms. But I see what you did. I see what you did.

Isn't that very thorough British? Let's but but but winning the pole position or being the fastest qualifier. Um, yeah, I think obviously you know, the ne thing about racing is it's a team sport. But but it's it's machine. The machine is the athlete is the way I look at it, right, like like people debate whether race car

drivers are athletes. And and don't get me wrong, you gotta be in in in very good physical shape, a different type of shape than to say like you had to be for for football, but you gotta be in good shape. But the race car, that's what I want to be the thoroughbread. I want that race car, you know, to have just a little more down force, a little less drag, a little more horsepower, just a little more

grip than anybody else out there. Now, if if you know, if all things were equal, which they're not, I'm sorry, it's just not the case. It's just racing one oh one the way it's been forever. Somebody's going to engineer something to make one car a little bit better than the next. And NASCAR does an excellent job at at at trying to create parody and and all the different ways that they measure the car and and and you know, inspect the car. Great job. But still there's always gonna

be a way to try to get around that. And so you know, on that day where you go to qualify, it's it's that machine and it's you, and you're just pushing it to the absolute limit of what that car is capable of doing. And you know, if you do it right, then you're gonna be the fastest one and you're gonna win the pole position. And and if you. If you mess it up, you're either gonna say, Okay, I I didn't get all of it or the car wasn't capable of more than I got. And so I

would you know, I I like to qualify. I love being out there on that single lap just pushing it. And I was I was always known to be a driver that that drove you know what we say, deep into the corner. So there's a lift point that every race track is not Daytona or Talladega, but on all the other tracks is this lift point of where you

get in there. You might use break not use break, depend on the track and corner size and everything, and you just want to carry as much speed in there, but you really want to get back to the throttle and carry all the speed through the center and all back onto the next straight away. So you know, I love that challenge, man, I mean I just did. To me. That's that's the purity of being a race car driver. So why why is the pole position so important? Well

because a couple of things. One is, it gives you the starting position to lead the field. You should be able to lead the field, um, you know, your side by side. So there's a chance that you might not, but gives you the best opportunity. Plus it allows you to get a better pitch stall, So so where your picker is going to do their work. If you're the pole positioner, if you're you know, if you're number one on the grid, you get to pick where you want to be first. So it gives it has an advantaged

throughout the entire race. And as as soon as I ask, it's all about, is what tiny advantage can you get every single time? My starting position, where my where my pit is. The modifications you make on your car is Nascar is almost like a game of interest. And and you know we talked about clean in in racing, and what that means is if you're the first car, all the air that's seeing your car, you know, it's there's nothing disrupting, it's seeing your car first. Okay, so it's

attaching itself giving you the best performance. As soon as you're the next one back, that air is doing all this, it's just dancing all of the place. Yeah, so it's like getting in a jet wash of an airplane and and you know they're just it's not going to attach itself to your car. And so you are already at a disadvantage. Now, if you're five ten cars back haul like you got nothing, You've got no air getting to

your car. Um just random now just made me think, do you believe NASCAR will transform talking about clean their act, my climate change, just my thoughts when you said that, do you believe NASCAR would transform itself into electric vehicle racing? One day? They'll have to? I mean, you know, you know, I think NASCAR plans to be around for a long time. A while of the race teams plan to be around for a long time. And you see where the future is going in in automobiles. Um, so it's happen. It's

happening now. Um you know, is it electric? Is it? Is it? It's just something something that is even supercharge as something that's more sustainable though, But and no, I wasn't.

I wasn't asking like higher level I was asking bare bones you believe, well, electric cars because a lot of what we do is driven by the O. E. M. S. Right, And so if they're oh that that I said, but I really just like I don't really think basically the manufacturer of the vehicle, so so Chevallet and Ford and Toyota, um or any other manufacturer that wants coming to NASCAR. If they say, listen, electric vehicles is our future. That's what we're gonna be building. We need to find a

path to introduce that to NASCAR. Then it's going to happen. You know. I think there's already discussions about it. But I think that what you're gonna see is similar to what we've seen in Formula One. Yeah. Now there's an all electric Formula Series out there right now, and what they do is they swap cars. It's crazy. So they start in one car and run that thing to the batteries Outum, come in and get into another car. And then now I heard that this year they're gonna have

one car with one battery. But it's all about managing the power throughout the whole race. So like you might say, hey, right now, I'm gonna use my battery to pass these two cars ahead of me, but then I'm going to have less later and right now I'm just talking about the one car. But yeah, this series, it's called Formula When they started, you had two cars because they couldn't

run long enough because it took so much because you speed. Exactly, I have an electric car, so That's why I was asking, Yeah, so what but what's gonna happen? I think and what we've seen in Formula one where they introduce electric motor just for boost, right, just for extra power, just to help the car accelerate off the corner. And now you're starting to see Ferraris and other cars that have pource. Ferrari has this in it that makes the car actually

perform better. So you take a gas powered engine and the electric power. I think that's what you're gonna see NASCAR do initially. Whenever that time comes, they'll probably just have some kind of electric motor and it might be a boost to pass right too that you get to use so much of it throughout the race. Maybe it regeneralizes the extra you earn it like yeah, oh yeah, yeah not fan vote or or you're like, hey you gotta win two replays. Yeah, I mean there's some of that.

So I think it's gonna Now I will tell you this, if we ever go all electric, the thing I'm going to push the hardest for is that it's got to make some kind of sound, right, like, like I don't want to hear the hissing and whistling of of the drive train or the electric motor winding up. Uh, there's there's technology out there right now for electric vehicles. Um, you know that make their own amplified sound. Just make

it sound cool whatever it is. You know, if Chevrolet or Ford or Toyota says, okay, we're going on electric, no problem. But man, give me some cool sounding thing that that. When that car goes by, I'm like, I'm not gonna say that's a v A. I'm gonna say that's a kick ass sounding car. It just happens to be electric. We have to take a break and the morning anything, we gotta pay some bills. You got check.

I love cut to It and I love it even more when you download us and subscribe, and you can follow us on social media to Smithie where where at that's at cut to It on Instagram? What about Twitter at cut to It Facebook? Cut to It featuring Steve Smith Senior, what about online? And you can follow us at cut to It podcast dot com where you can buy merch and you can subscribe to us wherever you listen to podcasts. I got all my answers questions. Uh yeah,

I got all my questions answered. That's what I'm here for a brother cut to a podcast dot com. Mr Cheeks co founder of the legendary hip hop group Lost Boys. He's also a solo artist with four albums of his own, and he's a native of Jamaica, Queens, New York. Not putting you on the spot of you know, downplaying these question, no question for listening to wrap. Now, some some artists, you can't tell between the course, hook, the hook, the bridge.

You can't. I don't. I can't separate its right, It's like through the whole song and you it's not even a real sixteen bars. No, it's like two bars. Mm hmm. It's like the game got like remember you said three verses in your records. Yeah, they don't do that no more. They just try to get away with one verse and slide on and it's like, what happened? Huh, They're they're successfully doing it. They win it, Yeah, they win it because niggas ain't got time that we listening to the

whole stories no more. Just like this now, niggas, what the bag went? Everything is so fast? Next forgot about what it is though, Like the game then changing so far that they fed these niggas or they fed all thiss like, uh, yeah, it's all about and the radio stations don't even give you you know, you wait, are you gonna wake up to them and take your kids to school or whatever? Yeah, and nigga talking about I

don't even know. I don't want to throw it out because I don't be really, I'll be here the record on the way to show them the radio y'all joint what they're doing. Man. But no, But I'm just different in the game in the morning and they talk about give me, I'm like, yo, let's get over there. But it's just different, man on the game is not the same man. I mean a lot of people that used to really care about the game, the Xex and all of that, they don't care no more. They care about YouTube,

light blue likes and all of that. It's not it's not even about like talent, the more it's about lights and ship like the chick that glue the head. If this is coming out with a red niggers, get out my flesh, man. I if these thigg just get this this that got the blue tap to the head, y'all wowing man. She But you know that's what happens because it's fame that's how easy it is. Man. You back in the days you had to work for. We made man, We had to work for like when you no, I

worked for talking with y'all. Right now it's twenty I put my first my first record out in five shoot that in twenty one. I'm talking to mother Bucky Steve Smith, nig Yes that big things. You already know that. You know what I'm saying. That love to the shout out said man, whatever, I'm cutting to it on, I'm cutting to it. I think what you're saying is it's the longevity, right like the Jays wrapping now's is still wrapping. They

have longevity. They're still have the storytelling, they still have the history and the in and painting. How much of the game right now is? I hear exactly what you're saying. Though. The point is people are just taking advantage of that fifteen minutes. Yeah, microwave generation and yeah, instant noodles. Because

but here's the thing, you though. Then they get and I'm not gonna name a person, but they take four years and they save up and they and they take all their money and they get a diamond impressed in their forehead. Oh man, we're just different ship. Yeah, it's different, right,

it's different. It's different. It's different. It's different. Uh. Man, you know every time I've seen that, every time I see the Homeboy with that in his head, now I think about, you know, my man from the the the when the superhero ship pull that out of his head like the Avengers Vengers, like yo, that the Avenger joint in his head. That's crazy because just putting a Venger joints in their head, it's cool. I'm just I'm just these gold teeth man smoke this league. The moral of

that story is, Man, it's his rock stars. You gotta forgetta remember now. Hey. But here's the thing though, because his rock stars don't don't leave no cabinet opening and hit your phone ahead. Oh don't need no cabin opening. Yeah, he's crazy than me. I love it. He giggled because he didn left him even left the cabinet door open and forgot it. But he don't have a comment in the middle of his forehead. Oh goodness, what happened to music videos? Man? I grew up watching jukebox, Oh man,

or the basement. You're on TV jams? Yeah? What? Why? Why are music videos gone with them shows at right? Yeah, well yeah, I don't know what those shows are either. But why what why you used to make a song. When you did a song, you had to follow up with a music video because if your music video, sometimes the music video would show your actual song. That's how people, that's how Yeah, Like so how how has it? I mean, if you don't mind breaking it down, like just really

how the game has changed? The money? The money? Like cause because everyone thinks every rapper that has made it has that bag, and that's the case. There's a lot. I mean, you look at Tony Braxton, you look at some of these some of these artists who's who have had multiple albums who later come out and they say, hey, a bad contract or the or the deal was not

what I thought it was. Um then you and then you hear some were getting the yeah, and you hear some people they're talking about how you know going on tours the way you make your money. I just I just want to know, like how is it changing, how you know for the good and the bad or and why is all this stuff everybody thinks like like football, there's fifty three guys on the roster, but they're really only about twelve guys making bookoo. Then then the other

forties something of them. Uh, they don't all right, you know they're they're they're doctors and lawyers, but but they they aren't multimillionaires that people assume they are. Now when nig is is, it's a different game, brother, Know what I'm saying, Like we were in the game, we have to go to labels and get dells and fight boom and you know, now, like I said, it's like it's just giving out the money right now, whatever sticks to the wall bang. You know, That's how I look at

I ain't even mad at saying this. But when you say they're giving the money, you know, not money, not using yourself as an example, but now you can use me an example. I'm saying that mistakes. No, No, I know, I'm just talking about as far as like, what's what is you're saying they're giving money away? What's a lucrative deal that that you're hearing that that's out there? Oh, they're lucrative deal. They got the three sixties going on?

You feel me? No, I don't know what's explained explain to us with you asked me, I'll feeling you I don't they're taking all your show money. They're give you the biggest shows because they're taking some of that money. I mean, this is what it is. They give you budgets because they're geting their money at the see what the rectors do? You know, like like it always been, but I really ain't been in the industry, so I ain't really been in the game. Like I'm on label

and all that. I know my own little routes that I'm taking the way to sell records and all of that. So it's like I'm I can explain. I really like when they're giving out these deals now three sixty, when they see three sixty, like I said, they're taking most of them. It's really like not like you're good. It's not like everything. It's like when you do shows, you don't you don't give you a label, the money, you know what I'm saying. When you do you sell the

merchandise you don't get. Don't get that money, I mean yours that's supposed to be you all day. But now they got Like I said, you might have to talk somebody else I know about the really to the three sexy, But like I said, I'm mean, I am in the game and about what the industry, industry, you know what I'm saying. I've been to my own runs doing my own thing, mown still popping in, but they ain't really like with a label and all of that song with my own label and my own you know, my own

back and since when we's doing it. So but it's just like, Yo, the game is just mad different, man. I can't really explain it because I ain't really playing that game with them no more, you know. But like I said, on what you say, would you say that guys are in the rap game right now? Not everybody? You know. You're not talking about the Drakes, We're not talking about the Kendrick of Mars. You're not talking about the big guys. We're talking about the middle of the

road guys. Right they're looking apart, but it doesn't always equal up to the park fast fast. That's a lot of line going on, a lot of front, a lot of bullshit, a lot of cloud chasing. We get it, we get it, but sometimes you gotta take it to

make it. You know. That's so how long based off what you've experienced, guys that you you hung around with, the guys that you've seen or you've battled up against that, you realize even back then there was cloud chasing, but in the end they lost, Like how well what you know? And the reason I say that is in not naming

no I got. I got exactly what you're saying, because we're spending money on their trash, sass and music in front like they bowling, and the records need selling, so then they ain't really getting the bag and spending the bag that they got from the whatever they got it from. So I don't know, you know what I'm saying, Like niggas confront all day. They give me on the down and I'm a front hard body. Do what I do with my record don't sell and then ship don't really

pop off. I mean the excightening is popping, you know what I'm saying. If I actually making it happen to get that money back, I mean, it was all worth nothing, you know what I'm saying. Like you see what I'm saying, Like a nigga loan meeds some money to do what I gotta do, but I don't. I don't come through from him giving me that money. But I was frightened, like I was having it and doing it like bing, but it being and then he really turned out that way.

Now I'm sitting on I'm sitting on the shelf looking crazy, right, you understand I'm saying, so that be from with the bag. I don't know. I can't really talk for that nigger, you know, I just doing that ship. Yeah, it's just every there's so much music out there. Yeah, it's really hard to know who's successful and who's nothing. And I was gonna say that now, the way that you consume, in the way that it's put out like this, the whole streaming platforms, it's it's a lot to choose from.

But then I think also what both of y'all are saying is it seems like that's changed the game too, like the stream and be good or bad for for the music industry. Like you said, it's like it's both ways. Man. You know, it's good. That's good for me. I'm old nailing Tony what they got, the tunes, they got, the Spotify, you know, we use all of that. But yeah, I

guess it's good. But then it's also bad because god damn, man, you get anybody can sell a record, kid, you know, I don't know, man, I don't know, I don't know real like music that be hating Niggs music. I'm asking, I'm not want you, I'm not I'm asking because you just going back in the day, first of all, get popped upside the head if you want to more than one jukebox. Uh was that like the mail thing? No

jukebox was back in the day. Juke box for for Cali dudes, was you watch television and you can for ninety nine or feels a feature, you call in and you request the box that music video or that song, right yeah, And that's how they do it now. With streaming, you just you just downloaded, you pay or whatever the case may be, and you can download whatever you want. And if it's a feature and it just comes out, you can download it early, you know, pay for it.

And I just and I just see that things are different. They And so being an old school cat, you that have had a number of rectors, when somebody downloads it yours, you get the residual, but you capture back in the day, you were able to capture that information. Right now, it seems like the it seems like it's harder to understand how they capture it because it's so much well that twenty a month, I can get I can download as much as I want. You got peloton, right, I get

on the peloton. I'm I'm running whatever. Right. It just seems it just seems as music has still stayed the same with expression, the way you can consume it around the world is different, right, It's all the strange, man. And and the question becomes what is the cost of a stream? And that's a that's an open ended question, but it goes it goes back to from an artist's perspective, like Mr Cheesus talking about like I'm sure you you knew back in the day. Alright, I'm selling the CD.

I get it, I get a cut of the c D. But now it is it is very different in in the means of the streaming has just changed the way that people can hom and the way the people purchase. Yes, it's a crazy game, brothers. You know, um I remember I just remember, like when you can buy an album, Remember you can buy an album, really enjoy an album. I'm saying, no, fact, you're don't fast forward no records. Those Yeah, it's a lost there's a lot of lost, man,

But it's still out there though. Don't get it twisted because there's some good artists that's still got albums out, Like you know, she Loom got a new album out. She looke um uh froyd Fluss has got his underground should I love so much? You know what I'm saying that I saw, I just want to shut shout that up. Shout those outum. None of the underground still is as

prominent as it is. The prop is coming back, man, I mean, like you know, Severny Timess like a several of the things that go down and is on his way back the boom back a stuff. Yeah, yo U check this out, my man. You know, Brucy b You're the original, you know from Wild Style and all that Buc I mean not Brucy Busy be Busy be he gotta wreck it out right now that they really paying attention to it. But it's so hard, you know what

I'm saying. It's like it's like we don't really pay attention to all, like you know what I'm saying, music like we usual because it's not really out there too for us to get or to hear because they're so flooded with everything else right now. You know what I'm saying, it's like look away from the realhood. There were the classic ways of making music and really putting the network and some tracks from Pete Rocking. You know what I'm saying, like,

oh man, oh ship. But I don't mean to jumble of the course, but yeah, I missed music like that, and uh, it's on his way back. Don't trust me that. I mean like when you were when you were growing up talking about music on this way back? The East Coast versus West Coast? How thick and legitimate was the East Coast versus West Coast beef? How dick was it? Yeah? Because you know sometimes people be like it wasn't legit. It was just awful. It was all authentic. Yes, it

was just all for It was all for show. It was an awful show because two niggas died, right man, that ship wasn't no show. Chip is real. But it was a real beef. I mean it wasn't. It wasn't really like no Willie I would beef me. But we was back in biggie because he was on the East Coast and niggas that was with Topap was backing pop over them me. But you know the let me tell

you the beauty. The beautiful thing about that East Coast West Coast beef Me and the motherfucking Dog Pound shot music made me how remix al in l a together East Coast West Coast while that beef was going on him. I'm saying, So it wasn't really like it was like Diddi and show ship and a lot of people got caught between that ship. You know what I'm saying. I mean, I'm not saying it like that, but I'm saying what you're saying that life was man's alid of other ship,

not the main characters. They didn't tupac beef. They had the music going on, but other elements came about, you know. But it seemed like because of the beef that the realness and the hard work. East Coast tried to outwork

West Coast, West Coast tried to outwork. Yeah, the music was so direct but also so original, so creative, because whatever you came out with, then that side of the coast had to come back, come back to something more substance, and then and then it burned for more because like like Mr. Chicks is saying too, like I think they were able to merge them in the Dog Pound were able to merge, and then later on then you got the South riseing the right like you got you got

outcasts into the even having that, but still you're able to birth other projects in other places from the country, able to to bring about good music as well. That's a fact me. Look at that like like when he goes West, goes beef and motherfucking a t Aliens game and yeah, I'm from remember all of that. Mr. Oh yeah, miss Jackson, I think it's about that time. Just take a little breather. Good, do it, good do. Let's get down to do it good. Hey Gerard, why did you

get that T shirt? You mean this thing? Oh yes, I got it from cut to a podcast dot com where we have exclusive merchandise. Shout out to our guys at seven or fourth shot. But yeah, you can go on, buy you a T shirt, subscribe to us wherever you listen to podcasts. Muggsy Bows. He's not just the shortest player to ever play in the NBA. He's a fourteen year veteran, most not to be with the Charlotte Hornets, first time all a cec A Wake Forest and overall

great and iconic legend in the NBA. Let's talk ball and again you were the chough overall pick with the Washington Bullets. Then you were traded a year later. When you were drafted, you had dreams and goals and aspirations.

At what point in your career of your first year that you that you realized that there were some goals and aspirations that were just kid dreams and then you realize that you know, you have an opportunity to do something that you've they dreamed, dreamed about, you know, fantasized about that it was really in your grasp to to do. M hmm, well, I think you know, my first year with the Bullets, you know, you come there with a lot of expectations, a lot of old You know, you're

being drafted. You want to be the rookie of the year. You want to make sure that you know you you'm on the top amongst still you want to make you know, you just have certain personal goals that you know that you're set for yourself, because those are the things that

you know your capable doing. Um. Of course. Um. During the middle of during the course of the season, we had a coaching change, and that kind of change a little bit of some of my playing time UM and the way they was, the style of playholl they wanted to play. And then I realized, you know, it may not happen this year with the some of the goals that I had, you know, floating in my head. But

at the same time, you know, you're you. You can't lose that confidence within yourself because you know, once that happened, you know that that that that really takes control of you know, all your you know, your body, for your your your your the way you play, the way you act and all that stuff. So the confidence always stayed at the forefront. It was just a matter of waiting

for the right opportunity to get to showcase it. And I knew, Um, during the end of the first year with the Bullets, things were starting to change, you know, things were starting to kind of, you know, not be the way I had a envisioned. UM. Then we go into the playoffs and then my my minutes has cut a little more UM during the playoff and I kind of,

you know, start to wondering what was going on. But again after we take you know, Detroit the five games, that's where it was the best out of five man after the meeting, I felt like, you know, things were still good. You know, things was good after we had that exit meeting. But then again now in hindsight knowing that it wasn't it was just you know, for what they were saying. You know, I just it just kind of message here a little bit. But I never lost

my confidence though. It was just a matter I waiting for that right opportunity. And then even coming down here in Charlotte, you know, still faced with the same situation with Dick Harder, you know, being you know, not believing in a small god. Yeah, still had that hang up on I need a taller, bigger God. And you know, one one incident, he actually went in George Shen's office and you know this was George and George that Toby. He actually went in George Shen's office. Uh. And you

know George Shan he's not taught himself. You know, George ain't about five five five six himself. So the coach happened to go into the office and he gets down on his knees and put his arms up to George shenn and say, George, this is what I'm facing with every night when I played Muggy and George George Shan kind of looked at him and like, really, he actually, you're gonna you know what you need and you get this to me in front of me about Margre and

Lord knows, of course we was in San Antonio. Of course Dick hardly got fired right afterwards, and and then when Jane let Us took over, then that's when, you know, that's when I started really you know, excellent and become, you know, the player that I wanted to become. Did you have any superstitions why you were playing? No, I didn't really have any superstitions. You know a lot of guys, some guys had superstitions. For me, it wasn't. I ain't

had no rituals that I did. And uh, because everything

kind of came spontaneous for me, you know. But always, of course I got to the game at the right time, always got to the game at a certain time, and always kind of had a little routine where I stayed in the locker room and make sure that I ain't come out the locker room until six fift team, you know, to do my little warm ups because I knew that the little kids and everybody was going to be out there lined up, and I want to make sure that I get the opportunity to make sure I agree them

to go shoot and then come on back before the six thirty, you know, for the time to go out for six thirties. So that was the only rich you know, I was done a thing, I really did. I ain't had no uh no particular rituals that I did. Do you believe the game has changed? And if so, how has it changed or this destinitely has changed and you know what and and honestly, I kind of like the way the game is and every era has it's it's

it's way of a way of play. You know, even back in the sixties and the seventies, you know, those guys are more of a it was a slow paced type of game, more cutting, um, more passing. You know, the game has evolved so much. You know, back in my you know, in the eighties and and you know, we had guys you know, they are seven ftags. You know,

they played with their back towards the basket. You know, today's game, we got the seven ft of you know, they're facing the basket, bring the ball up the court. And you know, the emphasis on the three point shot is a lot more um. You got a lot more. The court is spread open a lot than what it was for us. You know, it was more packed it in where the guys could camp in the lane a lot um. We can hand check. It was a more

physical when we play. You know, it's not as physical as to day, but you know that that's all have to do with the scoring, you know, the excitement of the game, the fast pace of the game, and so you get to see, you know, the skill sets of the players, you know, which is what's remarkable today. You know, seeing a guy like Lebron, you know, in the seventeen years still being able to you know, put up the numbers that he's able to do and still be productive.

I mean, the game has changed and allow these guys to play a lot longer, I should say today we always you know you hear this debate now, especially me being in the media, and do you hear this goat debate? You know why why has this topic of discussion come up so much? I have no I have no ideas, man, I really don't, man, because you know you're talking about the goat. The goat, I mean, everybody played the game

and impacted, you know, totally different. You look at it Woke Chamberlin and Bill Russell and Kareem Abdul Jabal and Magic, Magic is my guy, you know, Magic and you know and the m J and Lebront. But the thing about what I said about all this is that when I look at a player and athlete and the only guy that I see as polished as he was and had

no deficiency in his game was m Jack. And that's the that's the that's where it separates from because when you got the fundamental aspect of the game and then the athletic ability, but to the point of where you know you can it's off the charge with his athletic ability. I mean, it was breathtaking to see it. And it wasn't that he did it on one another court. He did it on both ends of the court. You know. It's nine time defensive champion as well as in the

thing and the killer us think that he had. But just the bottom line, just you know, it's just that you know, everybody, every player has some sort of deficiency in the game. Every player, every player has some sort even you know, I'm taking me from Lebron and he

called everybody has some sort of deficience. M J was the only guy that was able to perfect his deficity that he had when he first came into and that was just just shooting a little bit to where he increased it to the range that where it was three points. And then once that happened, it was, you know, it was no way you can stop six rings after that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

that day. But you know, people don't understand that's the way he the way MJ had that killer in Snake, it was like, you know, you knew two members gonna try to stop when he was able to create space and still make that play, you know, and he never

shot away from making that play. And that's the thing that stands out about him and reminisced with a lot of guys because you know, you look at Lebron, Lebron will make a play, you know, and sometimes he were shot away from that moment, and you know, and it's another there's nothing knock on him and just he looking at the game the way he said and how he feels like, you know, he can impact it in my time.

It might be a pass, it might be a shot, who knows, you know, but MJ, you always knew it was gonna be a shot and less three three three four came a double team and he kicking out the Steve to make the shot. But other than that, you know, all of them to go for me. Man, they all and the goot stuff is kind of crazy. You know, they're always some heck of a basketball players and you know they all kind of within their own right, the best at it. You are a unique person, You are

well worth it. You are competent and most of all, your lovable. I'm Steve Smith Senior, I'm Little John and this is cut to It. Cut to It with Steve Smith Senior. That is Me is a production of Cut to It, LLC, Paul Told Creative Media, The Black Effect, and I Heart Radio. For more podcast from my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio Apple Apple podcast O wherever you listen to your favorite shows from Cut to It.

Executive producer Steve Smith, singer co host Gerard Little John, talent in booking manager Joe Fusci, Social media team Wesley Robinson and John Show from Balto Creative Media. Cut to It is produced by Brian Baltaschevic and Meredith Carter, with production assistance by Alex Lebrec. Production coordinator Taylor Robinson. Theme music by Alex Johnson, lyrics and vocals by Anthony Hamilton. If you ain't heard about it, then we're about to let you now. It's all