JAY BILAS

What's on your plate? What's your resolution? Resolution? Man? I can't get wait to get the hell out of you. Know what I dislike? You're about how much time you got? Wow, that's pretty good right there. You know what I dislike when folks you go, hey, how are you doing? I'm just doing great? Stop lying? Why why are they gonna be a lie? It? Bro look backwards it. It sucked, but I'm cool with the noubt about it. But I just don't. I dislike the people who try to make everything,

oh it's great, Just be acknowledge. You gotta acknowledge that it so you're best in highly favor I am, but damn it, man, it's still so it's been different. Did you not learn anything about well, then that's it. There's there's your book. I learned a ton, but let's quit fakeing the f folks like it's been great, really it has. Don't don't swimming you misery. I'm not swimming and I'm just saying, just be forth right with your true be transparent,

like everything's great, everything is that great. Stop laying. At some point throughout, had some sort of a mishap. Everyone did, everyone in the house. Ever, we were locked in the house, so we had we had to wear masks, like just be honest. Don't get Oh it's great. It's some good things, but they're also good things that came out of this podcast. To it, it's been outstanding. Absolutely, I've enjoyed and it's

allowed me to recognize some things. But it also is like I really like talking to people who aren't I don't want to say phony, but stop, like stop stop acting like you can be both. You can't. You can acknowledge that it sucked, but you can also I think also I get the other side. I don't want it to be all negative, but don't you know, don't act like like, Um, I talked to somebody and I was like, brow are you doing? He's like, man, I'm great. Like really,

He's like, oh, I'm fantastic. Bro, couldn't that hard for you to believe that someone could be doing great? Awkward silence? That's called that's called a dead air. No, I'm it's not that you can't be great. But the individual I was talking to, we were talking because he text me saying that he wanted to talk. Hey, bro, I gotta run something by, you know, struggling with some stuff, and I'm like, hey, how are you? I'm doing great? That ain't what you just text me about. We ain't great.

You text me and it's all just a little bit of like you can't hit the text. So I'm struggling, And then I actually, hey, what's going on? Man? I'm good?

A sucked? What are you looking forward to? One? Man, I'm looking forward to There's so many things that I discovered about myself that, um, it's made me very intrigued trying to stay away from the negative in regards to and I say negative where, um you know, I'm on cameo and so get a lot of people tell me oh, Man needs you to roast my guy and Kurt you can curse him out too and swear it's fine. Yeah. So Cameo is an app where people pay and ask

you to do a personalized message. And there's been some messages like I really enjoyed doing them. It's made me really change my perspective on how I see things. But then there's also some people I've been like, I've been declining some of the requests because I'm like, I don't want to really put down someone, and like, you're because you're quote unquote paying me. Just because I'm getting paid doesn't mean that means that like you want me to

put like I'm like, who wants to be? Who wants to see a video message from somebody They may endoor like, look up to like, or it may be a yeah, oh you suck rob Like no, And I've hit so many declines that guys are really like, oh really like you really, I'm like, bro, like I get it has been such a trying time. Who wants some more bad news? I don't. I really don't. The bad news meter has

definitely been reached and extended. Man, I just don't. I want to really enjoy I want to hit into now with aspirations that are unobtainable, but aspirations of like I really want to refresh. So for me is the folks that are negative drainers in my life. I'm leaving you. That's good. I have no room for you because it does weigh on you and it'll bring it'll bring your whole injury level down. Someone operates, and negativity or fear or all of those different things. Man, that stuff wears

on you over time. I just want to be around people. And I'm not saying I'm the most positive person I know I have my I could be a Debbie down nerd. I can be that at times. I have that. I have that stronging of being like, just like, I'm good, here's something I'm going into and you're gonna hear it our new tagline at the end of every single podcast we do. And I believe this and I want to

emphasize it and I want to push it. So I was reading something my my my daily reading and on something that was really intriguing and it really hit me. It was actually December four and why is it important? Because it was something that until this moment at forty one years old what we all experienced in something that really was compelling, and it sets to this, I am unique. There's only one person like me. I am worthwhile, competent,

and lovable. And ever since I read that, I've been repeating that at least once a day after once a day moving forward, because for me to hear that that I am worthwhile in this word right here, competent, because a lot of times, I don't know, maybe it's just athletes, but a lot of times athletes get deemed as dumb jocks.

And I think that word competent because we can be on television, we can say how we feel or at times getting intimidated by the red dot on the record of of being an analyst, and sometimes you have so many seconds. You know, you have a two minute segment.

There's four people, so everybody has their thirty seconds each to talk, and you're sometimes grasping for words to say and be impactful, and sometimes you fumble over your words, especially if a guy like me um and that work competent just to use it as I am unique, I am worthwhile, I'm competent and lovable. I thought I was really cool and something I've just been holding on to and so I I like that and I'm gonna hold on to it something I picked up in that. I'm

gonna drag, pull pull across that finish line. The the start line is a start line personally for me as going in there and say I'm competent and lovable, because a lot of times we don't feel like we're lovable, especially what what everybody has going through, especially how um everything with the presidency, the virus, whether it's black lives, whether it's um, you know, defunding, the police, police brutality, all of those things. I think sometimes we have forgotten

that lovable part. Man agree on that. So you're unique too, and I and I love you for so I'm trying to be you are and and not saying that it like in the what you mean? So you know, if if you know some people, and also to the last thing, make sure you check in with some folks, see how they're doing, how they really do not just don't say, don't say how you doing? What I've been texting guys,

how is your mental? Yep just makes me think of one of our last episodes, Sam Macho, and he talked about how even in locker rooms you can walk by somebody and just say, hey, how you doing? How you doing, Steve? How you doing, Joe? And you always give it that I'm good, much like you just said before, I'm good. How are you really? Because we're good at putting on that front foot on that facade, like how are you really doing? And going out of your way to check

on someone. I think that's super important. Well, he said that guys will ask and the guy may not even respond, but he just keeps going because it's programmed. Didn't you let me act like I really care? But I don't because I got so much other stuff going on to really stop Paul's living. And now it's really good. That's

really good. So who we got next? Coming up on the Cut to It podcast, We've got j billis an n C double, a analyst for ESPN, former player and assistant coach for Duke University, and the author of the book Toughness. J billis on the Cut to It Podcast. Our first segment, we call it get Iced Up, our version of Icebreakers. There are questions that are selected at random by Smitty himself. There may or may not be a follow up. Have no clue, Smitty, go ahead, give

him the First, are you ready? All right? This open book test. It's about you, so if you fail, blame it on yourself. All right. The last book you read, the last book I read, is called The Color of Law by Richard raw Steen. It's about how systemic racism is not uh de facto um, it's the jura meaning it's built into our system of laws. And for people who don't want to acknowledge that systemic racism, he points towards, you know, facts in in law that have established it

beyond a reasonable doubt. It's it's a great book. Would you suggest me growing up as a black man? Shild I read it. I think everybody should read it, honestly. That and that and uh called the new gym Crow, which I think I'm right now one down up. I started that when that's a good one. What do you say, j when you get a gift that you don't like? So? What what are some pretend words would you use um in saying thank you for this ugly as gift as you received. I don't. I don't mince words anymore at

my age on gifts. So I was born December and uh, and I do not I do not do combo gifts anymore. Thank you. I'm a fellow. I know how it goes. I'm like I combo gifts are not acceptable. I don't want any dad gifts. I don't want any soap on a rope. I don't want any that crap. I want something good. I'll feel you when that comboy that thing gets me hot? Hey, is there a give? Really? Soap on a rope? There used to be? I mean when

you're you're younger. Maybe when I was a kid, there were all these Father's Day gifts that were you know, like like for your dad, you you soap on a rope used to be one. And you know your dad, My dad used to say when when it was his birthday or Christmas or whatever, we say, Dad, what do you want? And he'd say I don't want anything, and so why not? And he goes because it's not gonna be what I want and I have to pay for it. Was the first thing you tweeted this morning. Jeezy lyric

from his new album Recession to every Day Jay? What did Jay? Where did your love from Young Jeezy come from? Well? I mean, I'm I listened to a lot of stuff. Jeez is one of them. He happens to be one of my favorites, if not my my favorite, uh sort of hip hop rap artists. But it kind of started

for me, honestly when I was in high school. I was in high school, my freshman year of high school in n and seventy nine, and that was about that was about the time that the sugar Hill King came out with Rappers Delight, and so my my my teammates on my basketball team, we sang that thing every day while we were doing conditioning work and all that. I

still remember every damn word to it. And you know, then then in in college, you know, all my teammates listen to run DMC and you name it, and so, uh, you know, I gained a great appreciation for it as an art form. And then about it's probably about ten years ago, we were in Michigan State for college game Day for ESPN and Draymond Green was playing for Michigan State at the time, and he had, you know, some big old headphones on and one of our crew asked him on the air when he came by, what are

you listening to? And he said, I'm listening to Young Jeez. So Hubert Davis, who was with us at the time, and now you know he's an assistant coach at North Carolina. He turned to me and he says, is that is that on your iPod? Back then it was iPod, you know? And uh And I said, well, oddly enough it is. People didn't believe me, and so somehow it's almost become

a myth now. But people were hitting me on Twitter saying, come on, man, you don't listen to Jeez, and I said, yeah, I do, and I shot a couple of lyrics out and after going back and forth with a couple of people, I really did. If I remember right, I really did have to go into my office. I had to go into work, and so I put, I put, you know, some lyric and I gotta go to work, and somehow it caught on and I wound up doing it every morning. Says then, so what was this morning's lyrics? I don't

even remember. I did it at like six am, so I'd have to go out to go back and look. I what I do now, because I was always concerned. When I started doing it, I was doing it off of what I was listening to, and then I was going, you know, I might not understand what I'm tweeting out here, I gotta be a little careful and uh, you know, okay, because I gotta remember, like you know, everybody says, remember where you're from. I grew up in Rolling Hills, California,

you know. I I grew up in a beach community. And so now what I do is I make sure I check every lyric as it's written. Yeah you don't. Some of the motives act like yeah exactly, So I just I just make sure I I get it. So I actually plan them out now. Before I used to do them just when I got up, I listen to something. Maybe I listened something the day before, had something I was thinking about, and then I wound up. I wound up tweeting off the same album too much, I thought,

so I started. I've actually planned it out a little better now, all right, what today's was a't no retreat. I'm bouncing back on my feet is really in the field. You better buy some cleats. I gotta go to work. I love that one because of the cleats park that was. That was cleets. There you go. Who was your favorite team growing up? Any sport? The Dodgers? You know, growing up in l A. I played baseball as a kid, and I love the Dodgers. I was a big Laker fan and the Rams l A Rams were a big

deal when I was a kid. Uh and and loved all that, and then loved U c l A um and yeah, yeah, I was a front runner. I loved U c l A Basketball in USC football. But but I think the longest kind of love affair I've had with any team has been the Dodgers because I I just to me, you know, going to Dodger Stadium during the summer with my friends. One of my best friends, his parents had season tickets, so we used to go quite a bit when his parents didn't want to go.

And back then I knew, I mean I knew who was playing in the Dodgers farm system and uh in Albuquerque. Man, I could tell you anything. I don't have the time for it anymore. But when the Dodgers won this year, I was I was pretty geeked up. Me to Raoul, momda See, yeah, that's all I can go. I go

back a way before that. I go back to like Don Sutton and Steve Garvey and Davy loebs run say, all those guys back in the back in the seventies and uh uh, you know, my grandfather took me and my brother to the to the World Series in nine four. I didn't know my head from my rear end back then, but it was pretty damn cool. That's awesome. I still have a ral Mondesty jersey right now, a real Dodgers like like, I still have it in my in my

jerseys right now. That's bucket lists for me. Go see a game in l A. I've seen him play before, because that's bucket lists with me. Go to l A and catch a game. So where we know where you're from, but where are you from in a place you call your hometown? My hometown is placed call was born in San Pedro, California, and then I grew up in a town called Rolling Hills, which is not far from Torrance, Rodondo Beach Um and the other side it was called the Hill. So the other side of the hill from

where I grew up was Palace Verdes. So right now, um uh, people know kind of where I grew up from. Uh. You know that that Trump golf course is there on the water and that's if you just if you leave the front gate of that golf course and go up over the hill, you'll run into my parents house. On the other side of the hill. We just called the poor side of the hill. But it was pretty nice. So San Pedro, you know, I grew up in l A and and and San Pedro at that time you

were growing up. How has it changed and Rolling Hills? How has it changed today? Well, Rolling Hills has gone from being an area where a blue collar you know, blue collar worker that had done well could live too. Now it's a wealthy zip code and uh so that's

changed a lot. And the people who move in there, the folks that have been living there forever, have been able to stay because of something called Proposition thirteen, which was a little bit before your time, but it was that was a it is still in effect now as a law, but it was something that, uh it froze your property taxes. So when my dad bought bought his house in Rolling Hills, he is paying the same property on the same tax basis that he bought the house,

and the tax basis will only change. That's why California's bankrupt. The tax basis will only change when he sells it, so the new owner will take the tax hit on the value of the property. So in in a lot of ways. Uh, my parents can't afford to move, um, and it costs him a fortune to move and UM, so they've stayed there. Sampedro's changed. That's the port of

Los Angeles. So my dad, before I was born, was a commercial fisherman and then became a He got into the electronics business after he got out of the fishing business. And uh, you know, just the demographics have changed, um, as far as the makeup of the city, which has been a good thing. Um, but it was very ethnic at the time. Like my dad's from from Yugoslavia, former Yugoslavia and uh and his family and so it was

a heavy yugoslav influence at the time. Uh. So it's those demographics have changed and it's a lot different now, but it's still a great community and and support of Los Angeles is gigantic now. I mean it was big when I was a kid. You drive by there, now it's huge. I mean it's it's um, it's not I don't want to say it's off putting, but if you grew up out there, you're like, this is totally different now.

I mean all the containers and um, it is the stuff that moves in and out of there, all the cars and and things that come in from all over the world. Um, you know, it's really remarkable to see. We have to take a break in the morning. Thing. We gotta pay some bills. I love cut to It and I love it even more when you download us and subscribe and you can follow us on social media to Smithie where where at? That's at? Cut to It on Instagram? What about Twitter? At? Cut to It? Facebook?

Cut to It featuring Steve Smith singr? What about online? And you can follow Louis at cut to It podcast dot com where you can buy merch and you can subscribe to this wherever you listen to podcasts. I got all my answers questions. Um, yeah, I got all my questions answered. That's what I'm here for, a brother cut to a podcast dot com. Growing up in Rolling Hills near San Pedro, What how did it shape your perspective on how you see the world today? Well, I mean I think I grew up in a little bit of

a bubble honestly where you know I went to. If it weren't for basketball, I think my my view of things would be would be colored differently. Um, basketball took me into so many areas of southern California used to play. I used to go play pick up at Carson High School and Narbonne and all these different places. Um, and you know, so I got to know a lot of people that I wouldn't have gotten to know otherwise. And and so it was it was great for me. And it was a sort of a world, you know, world

worldly experience, I thought. And then and then it it obviously took me all over the world. But um, I think when you when you grow up like the place I grew up, as as the peninsula jets out from from the coast a little bit. So the truth was, nobody went to my area unless they had a reason to be there. It wasn't like a pass through area, so you could get a little bit sheltered. And basketball took that took me out of there because I played

every weekend from fourth grade through high school. Every weekend I played out of town somewhere. And during the week at night, you want to go get a game, and so you'd go play pick up wherever there was a good pickup game. I mean I was at Venice Beach playing outside or um, you know, I mentioned we'd go to Carson High School all these different places and play and uh and so I made a lot of friends

doing that that have been friends to this day. Uh. So that that was what sort of opened my eyes to the way the world was, more so than anything else about the area I grew up in. So who introduced you to basketball before you became this top fifty recruit averaging twenty four and fourteen? My mother wanted me out of the house, so she had when I was

in third grade. She had read something in the local paper about basketball tryouts for the local, you know, little bitty league, and so she took me up there and kind of pushed me out of the car, and I tried out for the league. And I thought, Okay, well, the way it works is, you know, get to fourth grade, you get picked on a team, and you play for the Little Lakers or whatever, the Little Celtics. You play your high school or you play at the local high

school every Saturday. And I wound up making something called a conference team, which was basically a travel team. So we played uh forty fifty games a year, and we traveled for all of them. So we would play all over Southern California, and we'd pile into the coach's car and and one of the parents they drive us to games and we played sometimes on a Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

We play in three different tournaments. And it got to the point where we would start a game with our full team, and in the second half, like at the end of the third quarter, um, half the team would go with one of the dads and go start the next game. And then when the guys finished, they hop in the next car and go meet them and finish the game. But we played sometimes, I'd play nine games in a weekend, and UM, I played. You know, we we all were teams, you know, all our teammates. We

wound up playing in high school together. So we played hundreds of you know, a couple of hundred games together before we ever got to high school. And so we knew each other really well and hung out and every weekend, and and that was really fun. I learned a lot about about things just from doing that. And it was all just because you know, I I my mom wanted me out and uh and I from the first time I dribbled a ball, I fell in love with it.

And I played baseball too, but I didn't love baseball like I love basketball, and that's sort of where it came from. And and and that was like that was all my parents needed to keep me in line. Was if I ever did anything that got out of line, they were like, all right, you're not playing, And I was. I would do anything to to keep playing. So I actually did what I was supposed to do, just because

I wanted to keep playing ball. Well, you said you lived in a bubble, so is it safe to say your perspective on all the different cultures that you experienced it going into the different areas of southern California really helped you, um to where you know, I mean I find it interesting and I know you but yet find it interesting knowing your playlist of rap music? Did that have to that? Did that start with the integrating of cultures and just hanging around so cultured now, yeah, to

just hanging around different different kinds of people. Yeah, I guess. I mean I think it was more. I think that sort of the rap music thing was more, um, you know, things that were popular at the time that that caught our fancy more than more than anything. I mean, there's a there's a big difference in appreciating black culture and understanding Black America and what you know, what Black Americans

have gone through and are going through now. And I think that's in my view, that's the biggest disconnect in the in the conversation we're trying to have now where people sort of understand that no, it's it is not systemic. Racism does exist. It doesn't mean that everybody is racist, but there are racist policies that we still live with and and and that shape our society. And when you know, I don't know, Steve, if you'll you'll remember this you

were younger, but or you are younger. But when I was a senior in college, um, I was a classmate of Lynn Bias that played in Maryland. So when Lynn Bias died, um, I think it was two days after that. A famous football player named Don Rodgers died exactly the same way. And I played against uh Don Rogers brother, Reggie Rodgers, played basketball against him. He wound up going to the University of Washington, played in the NFL too.

He's a great just great athlete. So when Bias and Rogers both died of of cocaine overdoses, that's when that's when Congress came up with all of these federal sentencing guidelines and what what what people probably don't realize today is is so much of our prison population is made up of low level drug offenders and they're they're predominantly African American. And that goes back to sort of that that book the Color of Law, like that's those are

those are issues of law. Those are not issues of people deciding to live in an area in self selecting. That's not what that is. And I think have having people understand that that's a that's a hell of a lot different. Understanding that is a hell of a lot different than understanding, you know, and have an appreciation for what Jalen Rose likes to call people who love black culture, you know, so so appreciating hip hop and rap music

that that's that's nothing. Um. That's a lot different than understanding the um the system we live in and how it is it is slanted toward h white America and

slanted against minority America. And it's not it's not just African Americans, but it's predominantly and and it's a our our unwillingness to have that conversation, I think is UM is the biggest hurdle we have to get over ibl as a society, that we have to honestly have the conversation rather than when there's an issue of police brutality, somebody asking the question of well, how many how many white people were killed by cotton. No, that's not the question,

That's just not it. And and uh, we're we're having, I think we're having as a society a hard time of of addressing that honestly. And until we do, we're gonna keep going in circles on this. I really believe that. Kudos to you j for um acknowledging that and and

and leading us towards the conversation, because that's the biggest part. Well, and that's the when you say route, cause, like I I always try to look at when when you're thinking about the end result and and why are we getting this result, you have to go to the origins and so what are the origins of these laws? What are the origins of of these issues? And until we understand the origins of things, we're not going to understand why

we're getting the end result. And so when there was recently some changes in the criminal justice system, while you know you applaud the changes. One of the questions I had was, well, why aren't we letting out the low level drug offenders that that were subject to these um unjust laws in the first place, Like haven't they served

more than their time? And and let's remedy those past wrongs in addition to uh, yeah, yeah, exactly, if we're going to decriminalize it going forward, let's acknowledge that we made mistakes back in the eighties that have perpetuated to the day to this day. And let's right those wrongs too. And uh. And for some reason, we we have an unwillingness to do that. And you know, look, we have an industrial prison complex now that you know privatization. There

are so many issues that go with that. But until we're willing to look at the origins of things that acknowledge all of the systemic issues, then then we're we're going to continue to be arguing over you know, some of these end results things and and uh and I get honestly, you know, you're you're having tough conversations with

your friends over the last several years. And uh and you know, I'm I'm hopeful that you know, rather than people feeling defensive about it, like I don't feel like just um for myself, I don't feel like I need to feel guilty about things, but I need to feel responsible about the world we're living in. And so so accepting the responsibility for the way the way things are is the only way we're gonna we're gonna take steps

towards making positive change in the future. So so I'm you know, I don't think anybody is asking white America to feel guilty, but they're asking for responsibility to be accepted and to be understood so that we can we can change. And uh, and I don't see where that there's anything wrong with that. I love this conversation and and I want to take a step further and really just talk about some of the things that you've done.

You you're outstanding analysts, uh broadcaster for ESPN and and just basketball, And obviously your knowledge of basketball exceeds my, uh miniature knowledge of basketball, which is I am a true fan. I am, but I'm a fan of basketball in the way. I'm not gonna comment. I don't think about can this guy play or not play? I just watched, I just enjoyed. I'm not gonna tweet all, this guy can't shoot. I know, the guy can't shoot. Looks like he's sitting on the couch, right. But Jay, you've been

extremely outspoken. And I am alumni and very heavily involved in my in my college University of Utah, and I've seen the way the game of collegian sports has changed. But I've also seen the good and the bad. I mean, you, these kids are coming out where it doesn't matter what

school they go to. Now they can go Division one, they go Division one, double a division to every school to some degree has a sponsorship by a buy a shoe company, right, And I mean I've seen something and even some of the gear I get like, this is ridiculous. They backpack socks, shoes, jocks, underwears, T shirts, beanies, scarfs, like now the mask that we have to wear it

even has the logo of the school. We both are a little bit long in the tooth on sports, but we both have been around it enough to see the metamorphosis of of collegiate sports. Where do you believe it, obviously in basketball, where do you believe collegiate sports is heading? Good and bad? Now? I know journalistically that was a that was a no no, I asked you two questions,

double barrel. But what do you think it is right now? Jay, Well, the way I viewed Stephen and I got involved in this stuff on the policy side when I was in college. I was a member of the n C Double a's Long Range Planning Committee when I was a player at Duke. So I spent two and a half years on that committee, and the n C Double A probably regrets having me

on because I learned how policy was made. And while at the time I had some pretty strong opinions in committee rooms, when the meeting was over, I didn't go out and voice my disagreement publicly because I didn't think that was appropriate and and also you knew what got rewarded, so I wasn't gonna step out of line. But now that in my job. My job is to, you know, not only analyze a game, but it's analyzed the game

and the policies that surrounded and the drive it. And so my view is college sports is no different than professional sports, except the only difference is that the players are enrolled in school. That is the only difference. It is sold the same way, it is marketed, the same way. Um the players to your point about apparel contracts with the school. The players are unpaid billboards for sneaker companies. And now when you were in the NFL, you were a paid billboard. So you know, the the NFL has

an apparel deal. Uh. For for a time, you were probably with Reebok and Nike all these other things for for the uniforms and the gear. Uh say with the before you were with the Raves of Panthers um. Uh. You know you were wearing Panthers gear and maybe it was Reebok logo on it and all that with the Panthers at the time, I think it was in between Rebok and Nike, So Nike Rebok had it first Nike, but then my er old deal. I was with Rebo,

my own personal deal. I was with Rebox for ten a half years and then I switched to So you right, so you wore your you had a shoe deal, so you could wear what you wanted on your feet. But when you were in NFL, um in your team activities, you wore your team issued gear that had the Reebok logo or the Nike logo whatever it was at the time. So by virtue of the fact that you were you

were a paid employee of the Panthers. You know, you were a paid billboard for the NFL gear, and then you had your own deal for your shoe, and then on your off time you were wearing Rebok or under Arm or whatever it was at the time, and paid by directly by the company. So the players now, people sometimes look to your point earlier about the amount of gear they get. Some people will look at, well, look at what the players get, so they get more more gear than we got when we played. Well, I look

at it as what they're allowed like. It's not like the university says, well, here is a here's a gift certificate to Dick Sporting Goods. Go get whatever you want. They don't say that. They issue them this gear and they have to wear it. They're not allowed to wear anything else because because the school is contracted to wear that. And in fact, when I was playing, you were playned in college. If we had covered up the logo on our on our shoes for a game, if they call

that spatting. If we had taken tape and covered up the logo, the university was required to give back money to the shoe company. We we were unpaid billboards. And my thing is, like the the contracts for media rights, deals for television, UH, ancillary rights, internet whatever, um, all those are exactly the same. NFL college football, NBA college They're exactly the same, exactly. The only difference is in

what the players are allowed. And and so every once in a while when I say, hey, players, college players are exploited. Uh, people go, oh, I wish somebody would exploit me like that. And I said, no, that's not that you're not taking that the right way. They're exploited in that somebody is using them to make money while at the same time limiting what they can make. That is the textbook definition of exploitation. Doesn't mean they're mistreated,

it means they're exploited. Those are two different things. And my thing is, if they're old enough to sell for billions of dollars, they're old enough to share in the revenue. And in the NFL players NBA players, they have a union, they negotiate with the league, and they're paid. Uh. You know, they get a percentage of basketball related revenue whatever that is. Uh.

And people go, well, the NBA has a salary cap. Well, it's a lot different to say the players get a scholarship only, and boy the end of you know, the NBA players are limited to of basketball related revenue. That that's a a pretty big difference in in treatment. So my thing is when people say, well, we don't want the college football to be a minor league for the NFL, you don't have to worry about that. It is not a minor league. Minor leagues don't make billions of dollars

and have multibillion dollar television deals. College football and college basketball are major league sports, their major league. They stand on their own. Now what the players do afterwards. Nobody says that college football and college basketball are minor league systems for coaches. So when a coach, when when Pete Carroll jumps from USC to the Seahawks, nobody said, well,

college football shouldn't be a minor league for coaches. You know, they don't say that, um, because it's major league and and it should be major league for the players and they should be allowed to share in it because every other student. Uh, there's no restriction on what a normal student can earn or accept. Like athletics scholarships aren't the only scholarships that are provided. Regular students are on scholarship too, and nobody tells them, well, you've got a scholarship there short,

therefore you're limited to only that. Only an athlete has told that, and I think that's wrong. I think it's about that time. Just take a little breather. Good, do it good. That's getting down to do it good. Hey Gerard, why did you get that T shirt? You mean this thing? Oh? Yes, I got it from cut to a podcast dot com where we have exclusive merchandise. Shout out to our guys at seven oh four shot. But yeah, you can go on, buy you a T shirt, subscribe to us wherever you

listen to podcasts. Jay, I know you. You just said something around um college players and then being essentially essential workers. Would you mind sharing your thought process around that? Yeah? I was. I said it during the Duke Illinois game. And I've been hearing from a lot of coaches essentially saying privately, what are we doing? They're They're like, I don't feel comfortable with us. This isn't there's something wrong

with us. So right now, college football players and college basketball players are living in isolation there in bubbles, and there're some of some of them are living in hotels some programs have their entire teams in hotels, not on campus, and they're really only allowed out so that they can play. And it's a it's a huge sacrifice for the players. But um uh, and they're tested every day, when healthcare workers on their campus aren't tested at all. Uh, they're

only tested if they get ill. So you know, I don't think that that we can even reasonably make a case that these aren't These aren't professionals. They're they're they're professional players and their revenue drivers for this multibillion dollar business. Our government is telling us only to travel when it's essential, and our football and basketball teams are traveling all over the country, so by definition it must be essential. And uh.

And look, I'm not comparing them in importance to true essential workers, but they're they're being used as essential worker. You're using it as an example because there are people who don't know that all this is going on. They have college kid, young man a college I mean, you got kids. I hate to bring this up, but you got kids crying on the bench of basketball games. These are young, immature young men who are just trying to find their way. They are trying to just put it together.

This jigsaw puzzle is not working. How would that affect your cycling? How would that affect your mental health? With all of this going on, it's a big issue. Like like what I find interesting are the rationalizations and excuses, and you know, like we're going, we're grasping for these justifications to continue playing. So now, what coaches are saying is that, well, the players are safer doing this than they would be if we let them go home for Christmas,

because none of them can go home. Nope, because because if they let them out of their isolation bubbles, they might come back with COVID or uh you know, they have to quarantine. They'll lose games and lose revenue opportunities. So they're they're they're justifying this by saying, well, they're safer. Well, okay, if you if you believe that, there may be some

truth in that. I'm not suggesting it's it's not. I would agree with some of that because of some of these young men and women are coming from the same type of places with health standards and some of that stuff that question that they would receive at the college or professional level. But but what what we what we're also saying when we say that that, well, look what we're doing for the players, we really care about them. We're keeping we're keeping the revenue drivers safe by having

them continue to drive revenue. Isn't that convenient? But what we're also saying by extension is we don't care as much about the other sport athletes that we're letting go home, And we don't care about our regular students that we're sending home, like the regular students aren't allowed to stay on campus anymore, and and so so we're saying sing, well, we don't care as much about them. So the logic kind of falls down there. And look, it's not that

I don't want us to play. What I'd like to see happen is that we within the college space have a national conversation. And we've proven that we can play. The question is should we And and I don't know the right answer to that. If this continues, if this pandemic, in this current surge that we're in continues to get worse, which the experts are telling us that it will uh based upon you know, based upon what metrics, will we

pause or will we adjust? And we haven't had that conversation whether this is right because I'm telling you, well, well, a few of the coaches are publicly saying I think we need to press forward. There are a number of them privately saying I don't feel right about this. I mean, I just came back from a game in Madison, Wisconsin where there were probably sixty people overall including the teams and staff in the building total, and and you know,

we're there broadcasting the game. It was like it was like being in a hospital setting. And uh, and I, you know, I don't know the right I don't know the right answer. I'm not claiming I do. But one thing I do know is we haven't had the right conversation around it. And we're just pressing forward to make money. This is all about money, and it's not like they're

putting their paid employees at greater risk. But but you know, the funny part is the paid employees go home to their families every night, and the players are in isolation and and not able to see their families, and there's a there's something that that there's a contradiction there that is unsettling, and most of the public doesn't know about it, frankly, nor do they care. And you know, I Liken it

a little bit too. Several years ago. I don't remember exactly the year, but you don't remember, Steve, when when the NFL and the the NFL officials were arguing. You know, we're fighting over over money there. I think it was the the officials pensions, and so the officials were locked out and we're we're watching games where the official you know, the replacement of officials suck. And it was really it

was really affecting the product. So I'm sitting at home kind of like you were saying about your basketball viewing. I'm a I'm a football fan. I just don't know anything about it. I don't I'm a novice in it. I just enjoy the hell out of it. But I could tell that the products being affected. I didn't like it. So when when it was settled, uh, And I didn't care whether the officials got what they wanted and whether it was fair. I had football back the way I

wanted it. And I think that's the way most fans look at basketball. They're like, don't tell me about the players anymore. I don't care. I just want my games. And so they're getting their games now. It's not the way they're used to it, but they're getting them. And so they're saying, well, the players are fine or they want to play, And since when have we listened to what the players want? You know? But now if the players want something that we want, now we're listening to them.

You know, the players want to play, okay, Well, if there's lightning in the area, We're not asking the players if they want to stay out in the field play. We're saying it's dangerous condition, get off the field until it's safe. And we're not doing that now. We're not now it's listened to the players. When the players say they want to they want to name image and likeness rides, and they want money, we're not listening to them then, and then we're in court and fighting it. Mhm. I mean,

I wish I could argue with you. You know, it's it's tough. You know. People have asked me, you know, how would you feel if you had to play now? And I and I really struggle with that answer because I don't know. I mean, there are teams north of ten million dollars they've spent on testing, just on tests. I mean, they guys are getting they're either spitting in a vow or the cotton swab up their nose every single day, two three times their tracked. How far are

you do? You? You know, can't stand too close? I mean, guys, are you know, just talking to players? Guys are having meetings. I don't know if you know this j but in the NFL, guys are having meetings at home on their laptops or or or iPads. Then after the meeting, they hop in their car and go to this facility. They grab lunch, they get dressed, they're going to practice field. After the practice field, I believe. I don't even think

they're allowed to shower at home. They get there in their car and they go back home and they get back on their laptops I pads for meetings. Does that sound pretty normal? That's not normal at all. I've said this jokingly, but if I see it the dude that invented zoom, I just want to hit him over the head. I am so zoom. Hey, you want to get on a zoom call? You know what I really want? This is what I really want to say to people. You want to get on zoom call? No, I do not

want to get on another freaking zoom call. I'm so damn tied a zoom. What do you see as the long term effects of COVID for collegiate sports? We because we're all kind of talking about what's going on right now, what what what could potentially be the long term effects

of this JAY, Well, we'll see some changes. I think one of the one of the changes we'll see is I think universities are in conferences are looking at their non revenue sports saying, why are we flying our field hockey team, the West Virginia field hockey team, Why why are they flying to the University of Texas to play a field hockey game and flying them back? You know, shouldn't this be more regional and the way we go

about this, wouldn't that be smarter? And do we have to have every every team on our campus play out of the same conference or can we have conferences that are you have our football and basketball conferences that are making the money and then the other sports play you know, more uh, regional, rational smart schedules. So we'll see that.

It's definitely changing the media business. UM. I think we're going to see more games that are the lower rated games, UM that will be done from remote where you'll be sitting in a studio somewhere and doing the game. And you know, somebody like me might do two or three games a day in different parts of the country, but but I'll be in one location. UM. I do think once this is over, we will get back to more

normalcy and how we process the business. Um. But there will be there will be changes, and the changes will be because of money. Um. Uh. The one thing I you know, I like, I think if you were just in broadcasting, So if you're a young broadcaster coming up in the business, being out on the road and going to practice and interacting with with all the coaches and players that you're covering helps you build relationships and credibility.

So right now, I do my job from remote because of the years that I've built up with relationships over the years. But if I were starting now, um, it would be really difficult to build a career without being on site um as often. So that that's part of it. It's gonna it's gonna change the dynamic. Um. But as soon as we can go back to the you know, the revenue sports, they're they're going back to driving that revenue. We're We're not quitting multi billion dollar businesses, just don't

fold up over stuff like this. It's not gonna happen. And to your earlier point in question, like I can tell you right now, just in the conduct of my job, I feel conflicted. You know, I'm traveling around because of the games I do. Most of the games I've done have been in person. So when I'm traveling, uh, you know, I feel conflicted about it. And I'm doing it because it's my job and and not that I'm required to.

I don't want to make it sound like that, but there are a lot there's a lot writing on these on this business, a lot of people's livelihoods, and I'm a lot I was careful before, I'm paranoid careful now because if I get this, I'm out for two weeks, and everybody that has been around me is out for two weeks because of contact tracing. And so I'm not going to put anybody's livelihood at risk because I want to have a drink with a friend. I can. I can lock myself down for several more months to get

through this UM. But it does it does point up what the players are going through UM in their isolation. I mean, at least I'm going home every night these players are not. So I don't blame any of these players that are opting out, whether it be football or basketball, because this is heavy stuff and serious stuff and uh, and it goes further beyond I want to play. There's

more at stake here. Like I'll give you example, I just did a game recently where the coaches gave us a background on, Look, here's what's been happening with our COVID stuff. This guy has been out because of COVID and all that. We'd appreciate if you didn't say that, but we wanted you to know why so that you had context for it. And uh and we found out, uh, probably thirty hours before the game that this one player is not going to play and we're not going to

announce it until right before the game. So you know, I was glad to know that and also glad to know. But they wouldn't have told me that over the phone. There's no way if I weren't there in person. And it helped us manage the situation one on promoting the game and promoting the best player who's not going to play. We were able to deal with that. And then when when it was okay for the news was no longer embargoed that the young man was not going to play

because of COVID reasons COVID protocols. Then we were able to UM to put it out there the right way. That was, you know, Hippo was okay for hippo rules and and was respectful of the young man and and in the school and all that stuff. So being there was really helpful. And uh So it creates a lot of different problems, but you know, it'still looking. They're just obstacles that you have to adapt to and overcome because everybody's dealing with the same set of problems. We just

have to handle it well. Our our last segment J is called the Deep three, and so there are three questions that we asked. It really takes us beyond who you are as an analyst, who you were as a college basketball player, really focusing in on on you. So Smitty give him the first question. If you were to write another book, what would it be on probably what it means to be UM a great teammate or a great colleague or great classmate. That UM I think as I've gotten older, I like to think I was a

pretty good teammate. But UM I think, looking back, I could have been better. And I'd like to explore that a little bit more about what that really means about. You know, everybody talks about, you know, team first and all that stuff, but having a we first attitude and and when I think when for me, when I think about all of the people that helped me and that were influential to me, whether it's coaches, teachers, uh, you

name it, colleagues that I've worked with over the years. Um, one of the questions I've been asking myself is am I being that person for somebody else? Like? Am I being an influence that on someone else that's helping them to be what they're going to be going forward? And I'd probably want to write about that. M what's the best advice quote that coach K has given you? There

are two things. One was next play that when we when I was in college playing for him, he was always saying next play that, whatever happened, good or bad, if you made him turn the ball over, made a mistake, he didn't want you dwelling on the mistake because it took you out of of playing the next play. And even if you know, if you've got to steal and took get down for a dunk. He didn't want you celebrating. You know that last make the next play and uh.

And that's been a trigger phrase for me ever since, to the point where I say it to myself all the time now, like I make a mistake or you know, something doesn't go my way, I'm like, next play, like

focus myself on on the present. And my father um was was kind of the same way um I had, and but he didn't say it the same way like I. I used to work for my dad during the summer and one time I was loaded up with gear, you know, doing some roofing work with him, and I took a spill off a ladder and my dad was pretty piste off about it. So he after he found out I wasn't hurt, he told me, he goes, Look, you can't get to the top of that ladder in one step, but you can get to the bottom in one step.

Concentrate on what you're doing. And I really started. I really thought about that that you know what rung of that ladder was more important, the most important, and it's the one year on and you can think about the top all you want to, but if you don't handle the rung in front of you. You know, you'll be on your back at the bottom. And uh, and so I you know that and and then um, he talked about a lot when I was a younger player about Uh.

He came into locker room one time when we were playing a team that if we played halfway decent, we're going to drill them, and he said, this is the most important game on our schedule. And we kind of looked at him sideways in the scattering pork on the most important game, like this isn't Carolina or you know, And he said, it's the most important game on our schedule because we're playing it. It's our next game, and

everything we do is important. And if you want to play in championship games, you've gotta start treating every game like a championship game and prepare for it that way and that way. When we are in a championship game, we don't have to do anything different. This is what we do. And and I really thought about that, and it's really changed my perspective on, you know, my job

as a broadcaster. Like when I first started my games weren't you know, highly rated, but the people that were watching it mattered to them, and so it better be uh. And it mattered to the players, so it better be my best performance too. It didn't matter how many people were watching, whoever was watching, it was important and I needed to treat it it. I needed to treat it like a championship game. Mhm, that's pretty good, I was writing that down. Good. What do you hope your legacy

in the sports realm would be? I don't think about that, um, because I think as soon as they kick me out or or you know, I get fired or quit or whatever, Um, that train is gonna roll down the tracks as if I were never there. And I'm not saying that out of false modesty. It's true. And so what what I'm what I focus on is um Am I being a positive influence on my colleagues and the people I work with.

Am I helpful to them? Uh? Am? I inspiring people as best I can to where Like I was saying before, like I'm a good teammate, But it's not about me. And uh, if if I'm doing if I'm doing my job and helping my colleagues do theirs, um I'll get I'll get what I deserve out of it. Um. I don't need to go into it with this. I used to think about, well, how how do I get ahead? How do I how do I get where I want?

As opposed to how about you just do the job in front of you, like, do the work today, and and do it to the best of your ability, and make sure you're helping your teammates do it to the best of their ability. And you know, I remember reading once about you know, the Patriots have a sign in their uh their locker rooms says do your job. And

I think that's great. Like I want to I want to do my job, but part of my job is helping my teammates do their job and uh and if I'm doing that, then all this legacy stuff takes care of itself. Um, because because I don't, I try not to think about about the end. I try to think about today if I if I take each day and do what I'm supposed to do, I'll have a good result at the end, hopefully. Yeah, there are some positive changes you've had through the pandemic, and then maybe some

some negative changes as well. I think they go hand in hand, the negative and a positive. I think the reason that the positives have become positive because at some point I believe they were negatives, right And and you know what, the pandemic Domestic violence is up extra is up a ton and why is And in my household

domestic vince does not exist. However, there are some things that the pandemic has done in our household at times through those six or seven eight nine months that were good but we had to iron out the wrinkles of the bad that turned into good communication, having better communication, talking about things, not sweeping it under the rug and walking out piste off and and and honoring and angry with each other, whether it be the kids with a wife or vice versa, or whatever the case may be.

Um So, I I really think that in this time, for me, what is really shown, and I think a lot of a lot of couples are seeing this is it's showing your blind spot. It's showing your blind spot in your parenting. It's showing your blind spot in your career. It's showing a blind spot in your relationships with other men and women with friends. And when I say other men and women, is it's showing a blind spot? Is this man that is another man? Are we as tight

of friends as we believe girlfriends. Is this you know how these mothers able to be mothers but at the same time also have their individuality, right, I'll side of being a mom outside of cooking, cleaning and taking care of the kids, uh, the husband, all of those things.

And so I think the pandemic is really show again, like I said, the blind spots or whatever area you're in, whatever corporation you work for, whatever business you are associated, it really makes that blind spot bigger or it shrinks it down to where are you healthy enough to know your blind spot and then address it, address it in a way that's not that that it does not cause more chaos. I'm volving with you on the positives and negatives because one thing I evaluated in myself has been

through this pandemic prior to it. How many things you would do that would just wear you down over time? Am I taking a meeting that I really don't need to? Am I doing something that um is? In my mind? Really he slowed me down when you thought that it was actually making you better. So it's really shifted the way that that I've worked to where there are certain times we would have conversations is some of that stuff is that how many know how many arguments have made

you had? Yeah? How many? Yeah? So how many things just or just even not even a lunch or meeting or I don't want to say, uh panels like all those different little just things that people used to do that for the most part, are just a waste of your time. And then when you go back and look at am I being the best husband, the best father? Am I being present with my kids? Am I being president with my wife? Am I being present with you? Just hit on a good one. Am I being president?

Even with my friends? Like one thing that it's done? Even just last week I called you, hey, I don't want anything, but how quick we typically are to just be transactional? What what's the checklist? What do we need to get done? Man? I'm just calling you. What what's going on? So it has forced us to be I think what I'm hearing from you is a bit more intentional,

know a lot more intentional, So more more intentional. And then just looking at I love what you said with the blonde spots, like, how am I taking that not just how you work, not just um what you do, but really holistically, how how am I working better as a person? Thank you for listening, um closing out on every podcast moving forward. You can say it with me, or you could just listen. You are a unique person, You are well worth it, you are competent, and most

of all, your lovable. I'm Steve Smith singor I'm Gerald Little John and this is cut to It. Cut to It with Steve Smith Senior. That Is Me is a production of Cut to It LLC, Baltol Creative Media, The Black Effect, and I Heart Radio. For more podcast from I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio Apple Apple Podcast or wherever listen to your favorite shows from Cut to It Executive producer Steve Smith, singer co host Gerard Little John, talent and booking manager Joe Fusci, social media

manager Payton Smith from Balto Creative Media. Cut to It is produced by Brian Baltaschevitch and Meredith Carter, with production assistance by Alex Lebrec, Production manager Sarah Pollock. Theme music by Alex Johnson, lyrics and vocals by Anthony Hamilton. You ain't heard about it, then we're about to let you know. It's all