D'Qwell Jackson

You said to like, Hey, what's going on? Okay? How you won't meet open? What's what's on your preferred list of openers? I was just saying, I'm just saying it through me off. I apologize. Sorry, Hell am I married? Hello Steve Man, let me tell you by my morning? Oh boy, when whenever someone's like man, let me tell you you're about to get a good story. Well, so I've started on this whole, so you know, not bragging, but just more of going through it. I bought a

Peloton treadmill and I love running. I used to hate, first of all, I used to hate working out and I hate running now I love to run. I called the inflection in your voice that I love it. I gonna stupid runs just just to just not think. Stupid

run A stupid run. So stupid run is stupid run when you just say, at the end of the day, you're just struggling, can't get right right, you got got a flat tire, or somebody didn't do something, or your co worker or now with COVID, the zoom call didn't go well, or the internet's out, and so you just have that end of the day. What am I gonna do just going a stupid run, which is you just veg out. You just literally run like a zone. Now, yeah, you just run. It could be forty minutes, twenty minutes,

it could be five minutes. It's just you don't overthink, you don't underthink. You just run right, and it's it's very it's very good. No, So I got this whole routine now and ever retirement, having a routine has been extremely important. So Monday morning is my stupid ass. Because I'm an athlete, and athletes are extreme. We don't have do anything. We either go all out, balls to the wall. Oh, we just getting a whole bunch of weight and don't

do anything. So my Monday's Monday, and Tuesday is my run. So I get up bout five o'clock. I give me a ten minute warm up run and I do some kind of run and say the hip hop run, it said, the endurance run. It's a camp and I'm and I'm old school nineties run. It's a progressive run. It's all kind of runs. So I love the peloton. So I get up, and the podcast is on Tuesdays, you know, so in case you don't know which day it is,

usually we dropped on Tuesdays. So Monday, I had a great run, had a great run, got twenty minute hip hop run in there. It was Meek Mills. I had a trap it was actually a trap run. Trapped run. And R and B runs are my best run because you just go to the flow of the music. You really don't hear the words. You're just going off the R and B run. You probably just coast RB run. I went fifty eight minutes and ran almost five miles. John legend or War Yeah okay, And so I was running.

And so today Tuesday got up and I don't know why, I was enthusiastic. Bro four oh five, I was up yankes, I don't know why, and I was saying, I say a couple more minutes. So I got up about four fifty, got got dressed, you know, sat in, read a little bit, turn on the TV seeing what other stuff is going on. Then bang, I'll go up there and get my So four fifteen, I'm um, my tim in a run, now my warmer run. I'm getting. I'm up to almost a mile in ten minutes. So I'm I'm I'm going good.

So today I said, I'm a door indorms run forty five minutes. I'm building my endorms. Let me tell you what happened. Happened? This is this is where things turn the stream. So I'm I'm in my I'm in my gear and so my running gears I have for your gear. My gear is I'm a sweat I'm a sweater. I'm old school cat. So I'm fully dressed. I got on either tights, shorts with tights or or running pants. Got on my my my shoes. I got two pair of shoes. I got shoes that I run outside, and I got

shoes that for running this out on treadmill. And it's starting to get cold. So I'm in the house more brother ain't trying to freeze his butt off at five in the morning. And plus two, I'm concerned getting hit. Um, so I'm dressed, sweat, I'm going. I got my l a Dodgers shirt on. I was asking, I want to make sure you ain't like Richard Simmons type stuff. So like Richard Simmons swing, I'm not even going down that alley.

That's a good one player play off. So I got a forty five minute endurance run, and so what is the endurance shrun? To stay at the same speed for forty five minutes or forty minutes because it's five minute world warm up? But I do a ten minute warm up run in the five minute warm up and then bang for forty minutes. I only made twenty two minutes. Dog, I was on the bus. What bus, I'm owned struggle bus her. I don't know what happened. I was enthusiastic.

I was ready to go. What happened? I had asked it like that. What happened? The girls said on the run with the guy to run? She said, this endurance run, you have to embrace being uncomfortable. I didn't embrace it, but my ass was damned show uncomfortable. I was about to give me something profound. It was just your heads wasn't ready. It is profound. My body, my mind, my mind's telling me yeah, but my body is telling me hell no. Bro I knew I was in trouble because

about ten minutes in I was heavy breathing. Did you did you call earl? Excuse me? Did you did you vomit? No? I did not, but I did take At one point I got off the treadmill and looked myself in the mirrors. What did you say? I said, what is going on today? And my body says, ship, I don't know, broh, and I don't know what happened. But then my mom I started I did not didn't braced the uncomfortable, and she said, you have to be okay, the only way you're gonna

get uncomfortable. But you have to be uncomfortable to have progress. Bro. I was so struggling and in that progress by my uncomfortableness. You know what it showed me, and I'll be transparent. I was screwed up for about an hour after that because it was probably the first time as forty one years old that I couldn't wheeld myself through it. I could not get over the hump, and I was kicking myself.

And I do a routine. Ten minutes I run, and after after I run, I do abs and I do a few other things, and I stretched bro I got twenty two minutes and I stopped. I even stopped it and went back to it to try to do it, and I still couldn't do it. And so I came here and I said, you know what, I'm gonna be vulnerable and say today and say if you are struggling, if you are not comfortable with being uncomfortable, you did not want to get the progress, It's okay, It's all right.

But what I really learned was I failed in a lot of things, but I was okay with felling today. I actually felt human and it was really cool that I did not want to beat myself up about it. But I I literally didn't do my ad workout, didn't finish the run, and I just jumped hopped in the shower and I was struggling and I and I have

this whole routine. But then I started going in my mind while I haven't taken my um, I do a plant base um protein shape that I do, and I just struggled all the way through, like I was like, oh, I didn't do it because I can't do it too early because then they'll wake up dudes then and you get mad that I woke up dude. But I needed my protein. I haven't been able to take it too so I took it today on the way in. It was just really cool that I'm evolving to realize it's

okay with not accomplishing to day. Or maybe the perspective shift is your body couldn't finish the workout, but your mind got to exercise today. Is that it? I don't know if it's that profound, but I just know I'm just giving it. Man. I drop a gym every now. But listen, I saved that workout. You're going back? Are You're gonna barrel through that? Oh? You best believe that. Forty five men the door swand a mothersucker. I am coming back now. I don't know what the outcome gonna be,

but I'm gon await a couple of days. So on Saturday, if you see Smith Fam eighty nine on the peloton, just no, I'm coming with that smoke. I lost today I'll be on your back. Mom will be back in a couple of days. And then told you so listen, if you're struggling, if you went through something, I understand that you're not alone. It happens. So I don't know why. I think maybe guy was saying, hey, you know you need you you need a little bit today. So I'm

cool with it. That's dope, man. I'll be there at them all though. Who's the guest today? The Quail Jackson. The Quails a former linebacker for the Indianapolis Coats and the Cleveland Browns. He was a teen pro bowler and just overall great guy. The Quail thanks for coming on the podcast. Oh thank you, Thank you guys for having me thanking me. You're about to get iced up. Smitty's got these random questions. Have no idea what he's gonna talk about. Smitty, go ahead whenever you feel like it.

Ice him up. Son. Your favorite movie all time? Favorite movie all time? I definitely have to say Mental Bonna is one of them with Cuban Gooden Jr. Okay, that's that's like my goal to anytime I would go into camp just to get my mind right, I would throw mental ban it. That's one of my all time favorites. Uh the program another football movie, that's a good one, right, Watch that school. That's so the funny if I can say this, the funny thing about that the movie program

my literal league coach. He used to he used to have sleepovers over his house night before games. I was what was the linebacker's name. I forget the linebacker his name, but I was. I played linebacker, so I had to embody what he lost it got it got the juices going. Man. So I like that um pancakes or waffles, and it just depends on the mood. I mean, ah, give me a good give me a good soft pancake, man, give me a good pancake. Yeah, softy. That sounds like it's

an uncooked bing. That's that like a doughty pag No. I like it just right. I don't mind a little dope. I don't mind a little doing, But my joint gotta be solved. Any any flavor chocolate chill, Nah, I'm I'm straight up, just as plain as it can be. And some syrup and some what kind of okay, let me say what what kind of syrup? Though? What kind of sirup? Okay, okay, like organic or you just going with the buzzwor o you all that hot fruit toast syrup? I need all

the sugar cuts, all right. The first the first job you've ever had, first job I've ever had. Oh that's well. I used to bad groceries back home at a grocery store called public. But only work the week, is only work on the week, is only work. For a while, I was out the day, but I got getting fired because my lunch break, instead of half hour breaks, I would take an would break. I would be on the toilet,

just magazines and all that. So it didn't last long before hours at the time, man, and I couldn't you know. I was like, you know what, this football thing needs to work out for me, dude, that's terrible, dog, that is That is just what I did. That was my legal job. But what I my uncle, what I what my uncle had me do was I used to mow everyone's yard around the neighborhood, just you know. And I was a bigger kid growing up. So again, when I

was playing football, we had weight limits. So in order for me to make weight, my uncle put me in this. I'm sure you guys have heard this the sweat, the trash bag, trash bag, cut holes in the trash bag, and I would cut everybody's lawing all week long in the mid mid of summer down in Florida. Yeah, Florida was my first real job. You know today they call that child to be Yeah. I know, yeah, I know. You know. I won't name any names, so we don't

want to nobody. All right, you know a lot of people don't know this, but I gotta throw this out there. You were notoriously you were notorious for getting um emotional on the football field to the point of where you would um be queasy. So the most embarrassing things you've ever thrown up? Oh man, I get teased about this all the time. He used to call me with it be man. I just had this conversation last weekend one of my aunts because I can't. I don't judge me

on this, but I cannot. I don't eat a ton of seafood. Growing up in Florida. We had the fresh fish Prize, we had the crowd boils all that. I never touched any of it, but if I smell it, my stomach will get so queazy. I could posibly throw up like it happened before. I can't. I can't do it. I don't know whether it's an allergic reaction or what, but I cannot do it. But yeah, I have been known to throw up a time back in my day.

You know, you know it's funny about that, is playing against you, getting hit by you, And all I need to do is maybe put some imitation. Craping just would have been no about nothing. It would have been over from the start. Bro. Yeah, man, I can't get over ye. I have a very weak stomach, very weak. I couldn't. That's your worst, not mine, weak stomach. The Quail Jackson got them bad guts. Okay, in retirement, your Sunday afternoons, now you're gonna catch a basketball game or a football game.

Gonna catch a basketball game? Why game? I've watched enough football on my day. I'm not missing anything. But you're throwing some basketball? Oh yeah? Because you know back in the day, I wish, you know, I played ball. That was my first love of basketball. I wonder who you know?

Back home, they had this tournament called hoop it Up where you get three on three and it was hundreds of you know, uh, your trees to get in you you you play at this dog track they set up Who's And I loved it, man, But I was just better at football. But yeah, if it's a basketball it's a basketball game or a football game on nine times out of ten, and I'm probably gonna watch basketball. Who is the Quail Jackson? The guy who's who grew up

in Florida. Let's discover the Quail Jackson inside of the jersey? Got it? Got it? Well? The first thing that comes to mind for me is, you know, I was one of those kids. I'm the youngest of three, my oldest brother. We have the same father, different mother, so we didn't really grow up together. And so for me, I grew up with my middle brother, my brother Dante, and single family household my dad. You know, really the only memory I have with my dad as a youth was him,

you know, giving me a bath. And it's probably partly why I love bad time with my son, you know, It's like it's very important for me that I spend that time with him. But I think for me, I was always that inquisitive little kid that probably I was very very very shock growing up. But I used to think a lot and my mother, you know, for me, I was the problem child because I wanted to try everything. I was cool. I grew up in a you know, small black neighborhood, but yet I went to a predominantly

all white school. But if you say my name, I was cool with white black it didn't matter. You know, I was just that guy. I seem to love everybody, which was you know, came off is different or maybe you know, uh, you know, my mom didn't really understand that. So let me let me interject, because I don't want

to miss an opportunity. You stated you grew up in a predominantly black neighborhood in Florida, yet you attended a predominantly white school for whatever ethnicity, culture, sex, creed economic situation. Why do you believe bringing that up in the manner that you brought it up? Why? Why is that in today's culture? Why is that? Why? Why did you need to say it in that way? That's a great question, because I think a lot of times we all live

in our own silos. I own little bubbles, and for instance, I give you an example of my my own wife. My wife grew up in the Washington, D c. Area where you know, it's George's County was one of the most affluent areas for for black people, uh in this country. So her perception of black was a lot different than my perception of black. And so so what is your perception based off that statement? You said, what is your perception of black right now? For me? Black right now

is its excellent. Black right now means means education. Black right now means strength. Black right now means uh, misunderstood. Black right now means it's like the secret that that we've all kind of talked away is now at the forefront when you look at what's happened in the world right now with the George Floyd murder and how the conversation and dialogue has completely shifted now. You know, I drive around my neighborhood and that's black Lives Matters signs

everywhere where. Before it wasn't as an easy topic to talk about. So mean, so your your your previous question about why I thought it was important to bring up that I lived in a predominantly black area, but yet I went to a predominantly white school. It was because the percep I was looking back as a young d Quell Jackson, I was looking for more and in my neighborhood. You had some great role models, you had some not

so great role models, just like any other community. But I just always thought it was much more and I didn't see a lot of much more from the people that looked like me, and only saw it in Florida from the people that didn't look like me. So it was a matturation process of when I get the from the university that I chose. I could have gone the University of Florida, but I didn't. I felt like it

was like a fifth year high school. So I wanted to go to a you know, big metropolitan area where it was more people that looked like me doing well other people, big Melton pot of people. That's just the way I'm kind of wired. I love to be around people,

you know. It's just something that has always been very close to the chest for me, of trying to identify of of who I am, because in the South, a lot of grandparents didn't really tell you those horror stories about your your blackness so important that we all get educated on our history, because listen, just because you're black doesn't mean you speak for everyone that's black. Everyone has perspectives, and I think for me, I've always sought that out.

But my parents and my my grandparents and my uncle's and my aunts, we really I really didn't have that history from them. I learned through the school system, and as I got old, I'm like, wait, there's gotta be more. That's gotta be more. And that's partly why I live in the Washington, D c. Area. You know, my wife, when you talk to her about the history and and her she can give you personal stories from her great grandmother.

She has a grandmother now that's ninety three years old, her sister, So they're just endless amounts of information that kind of ties us all together. It just makes you appreciate, to your point earlier about blackness, what it means to be black. It was a pride, and it was it was a pride that you carried with history and education and and even sparked my interests of reading. Now you know, I was never a reader. I've gone through I'm reading this book right now called Policing a Black Man, which

is and I just finished, uh two years ago. I actually read a book that kind of sparked my interests again about um when I went back to school to finish my degree. It was called white fragility. It's written by a white woman, but in a white woman's white

person's perspective. To get insight of what the things that you know, songs that we've heard over the years, people you know, black people, you know talking about you know, different you know, how to raise their kids, how we you know, prepare our kids when they leave the house differently than their white you know friends. That It takes a deep dive into that. And that's something that I'm

really passionate about and really important about it. And I want to push all that over to my son to know, because quite frank, he's not gonna grow up the way I did. You know, he's got everything he's possible. He's got a pool in his backyard. You know, he's got every toy known the man. But it's some somehow, somewhere you want to find that balance. So, okay, we're gonna know who we are. You know, we we live a

great life. But yet you know, a lot of people, including our family, don't live a charm life as we do. And it's important just to be have a good balance. When it comes comes to that, we have to take a break. And more than anything, we gotta pay some bills. I love cut to It, and I love it even more when you download us and subscribe, and you can follow us on social media too, Smithie, where where at? That's at? Cut to It on Instagram? What about Twitter? At?

Cut to It? Facebook? Cut to It featuring Steve Smith singr? What about online? And you can follow us at cut to It podcast dot com where you can buy merch and you can subscribe to us wherever you listen to podcasts. I got all my answers questions. Uh yeah, I got all my questions answered. That's what I'm here for. A brother, cut to a podcast dot com. So who was the biggest influence in that community as you were going to the schools and thirst thing for that hungerl who? It was?

My uncle? It was my uncle Charles. He was a military guy. He had you know, uh he was. He was good and sports growing up. But he was a knucklehead, you know. He followed the crowd instead of leading on his own. He went to prison and when he got back out, he basically did not want me or my brothers to to to to become entrapped in that environment. So he was my sounding board. He was you know, I'm eight years old and he's talking to me like

I'm a grown man, you know. And and I didn't understand all of it then, but I understand it now. He was preparing me for what, you know, when that situation would come up, whether it be whatever it was about. You know, I had heard it ten times over from my uncle. But he was the guy. He was. He was a disciplinarian. He took the place of my father, who wasn't around because my father was in and out of prison majority of my life. Uh, he had a he was he was a drug addict. He was on drugs.

But now that I'm a grown man, I realized it's an illness. Ye speat it like a drug, like a like a criminal problem, when when in fact, it's an illness and it's something that Listen, all of us have kids, and there's nothing more important than our kids. And if something is dragging your way that's much more important than your kids and your family, then that's an illness to me. Well, I heard a story about your apologize on another podcast. I'm not sure, I don't know the exact podcast, and

your apologizing to your old college coach, bro. That was two thousand and three, So sixteen sixties. Ever, teen years ago. Why did you believe you needed to apologize? Why? Because he's a he's a He's a good friend of mine, that's why. And we talked so much, and I never had a chance to to think to give him a call and tell him that, you know, I put him through the ringers in high school. It is Mike Lotchley, who's a current head coach here at the University of Maryland.

And now you know he he was a guy. He's always been super friendly to me and my family, always looked out for us, always wanted I look at him as looked at him as more than a coach. But yeah, we had some fun with it because he tells that story all the time. Man, I didn't sign on signing day, and one coach wanted me to go one place, another coach wanted me to go another another college. Because looking back, they all had friends and everyone had their own agenda.

I gotta figured out I had to apologize to him. He thought it was hilarious. But we're good friends. That's the only reason I feel like I need to apologize to And plus it was just good fun. You went to Maryland. You you like you said you didn't want to go to any schools in Florida's And I actually have to give you kudos for that, because you know, growing up and you know, growing up, I grew up in Los Angeles and usc U C L A San

Diego state, like you desired to. You desired going to those schools because college the colleges now have their own networks. You got Packed twelve a C C S SEC. Right, you got you even got the rudy poop leagues that got their own you know network. And so back then, back yonder back when we were playing you locally only saw, you only watched like growing up in l a Florida state, Charlie Ward right there, Brooks Peter Ward, I called flag for leaving the state. Now like where I grew up

in Florida, we would die hard Florida state. We're exactly in Florida. Like I'm in a city called Largo, Florida. It's like Southwest is on the Gulf side. So I grew up near the beaches and just that little pocket. Okay, So I'm a West Coast guy. How far away from Disney are you here in South Georgia. Man. Yeah, Like I'm like, they're like, oh, I'm from here. I'm like, where's that from Florida? He need he needs the panhandles,

Like you gotta give him a landmark from Disney. I'm about two hours Okay, okay, I know where that's sad, I know where that side you got, so yeah, man, I wanted to go in that area. Your Florida State was the school, and that was like if you played football, you went to Florida State. That was like you kinnacle. But they never offered me. They never offered me. And you know, I was huge fans of you know, the guys you mentioned, Derrick Brooks, Wark Dones, Peter Ward. I

loved all everything about it. And when I realized I wasn't good enough to play for them, you know, I had to really dive deep into into like, Okay, where am I gonna spend these next four years to play football? But when I decided to go to Maryland, you know, Maryland is not a football school. That's still not a football school. They had just won the national championship in basketball two thousand one. They went to the Orange Bowl, got got, you know, the break speed off of them,

from University of Florida. And it was just like when I made the decision. My uncle down at me, my family downed at me. It was it was a decision I had to make on my own. Good one wanted me to go to Maryland, and uh, you know, I had to make the best out of it. Let's talk ball. So we're gonna we're gonna talk a little football. In high school, you played everything. Your school was pretty sorry

because you played punter. I see, they said, don't always if you if you play a linebacker and you're the punter of and you're in the National Football League, your perspective, you look back, you go, bro. We was terrible some of these deep South teams, like you may only have thirty five guys in your roster. You're gonna have to play both ways. Did you play both ways in high school? Yeah, y'all? Sorry, yeah, I don't even want to say so, but we're sorry. Okay,

got it. I played safety, I played corner. I this how sorry we were. Let me just tell you my best friend Peter Mills from Africa, who could who was from Africa, grew up playing soccer, couldn't make the soccer team. Was the kicker was the kicker. He was such a piss poor kicker. When I scored, I actually kicked the field goal after you st you're going back and you can kick the extra point because he was so inconsistent.

My friend, it's a sorry football team. I hate to say when I played quarterback to I played quarterback, I ran a wing t d. Yeah. See wait a minute, buddy, thank you draw our little john. My boy. He went to high school North Carolina Lexington. Put a respect on it, bro same place, And what kind of offense did y'all run? Freshman and sophomore year, we ran wing tea and then we ran spread my junior and same year. How do you go from listen? It was a transition. It was backwards.

You don't go from spread. We did? We did? Okay, all right, so let's a little quick talk. Let's talk bold with your a's playing linebacker? What was what? What's so intriguing to play linebacker defensively versus playing offense? Where you think back now you're retired, thinking back at your career. Oh, I didn't like getting hit, as simple as that. I didn't want to get hit, you know, I didn't. I didn't mind a collision. But I wanted to be the one to strike force on somebody else. I didn't. I

didn't think about the idea. It didn't intrigue me for me to run the football, and I didn't need to score touchdowns. I wanted to hit people. I had a ton of energy. I could run a little bit. And you mean to tell me, I can wear these shoulders, I can wear these pass and I can go tackle anybody that has the football. To me, it was that simple, you know. When I first started, you know, this ability to have fun. And I was a rough little kid

growing up. I used to break all my toys like there was nothing that my mom could could do to me or put me in to tire me out. But when I started playing football, it soaked up so much energy and it was just so much you can learn. And my uncle was there. The more I asked, the more he would give me. And you know, just I loved everything about it and I was obsessed with it. You know. I was that kid that before games in literal league. I mean I used to sleep in my

my equipment, sleep in my uniform. Oh yeah, I used to lay it all out. Oh I used to see Let me tell you. I love football so much. We had this dirt role next to my grandmother's house and we it was probably about I don't know, maybe a little short of the link of for football field. Well, my brothers didn't want to play with me, so I

used to play football by myself. I used to snap it to myself, catch it, go, go through a play by play in my head, scoring a touchdown, playing lineback of being you know whoever I was into at that time, I mean I loved him and I was obsessed with football. So football football for you growing up was it was a real arena for you to um plugged because you stated you were anchor and you love you. You're inquisitive, you question everything. But I know for myself as a

thinker as well, you always you. I won't say always, but I think always is fair assessment. You always are looking for places to imagine, not fantasized, but imagine a better situation or place you can go. That's entirely accurate. Okay. It was definitely my way away for me to get away from everybody, you know, get lost in my thoughts and you know I would be dreaming. Is one thing dreaming is. There's different dreams, but mine mine. What I

would imagine was it was the same story. It was me playing football, me being successful at you know, whether it be that upcoming game or or years from now. I used to envision myself as a thirty year old plus man, what would I be. It was the same image when it came to football. So, you know, I never thought about anything. I never really gave it a chance of it not working when I was young, like, this is what I want to do and until people, until this route changes, I'm gonna stay committed to it.

And definitely that was my place of solids man, where I could just get away. I felt comforted into that. Well, let's keep in the theme of let's talk ball. When I first met you, um outside of an helmet of jersey and you trying to decapitate me going across the middle. We met on a NFL USO trip to Kazastan, in which I was actually on another trip in China. I think it was China. Yeah, I went to China. So I took a I took a day trip. We were meeting in in Stanbol and so I did a layover.

So I spent like hours and instabl pretty interesting to see instables in thirteen hours, basically living in a van a private tour. And so I met It was me, you, Von Miller, J J. Watt, and Champ Bailey and it was awesome. But we also when we met, we're gonna get into it and I want you to kind of talk about it. What was the most intriguing thing we played against each other? Me and you? But you got to see a little bit of the intensity and uh, the I don't want to say shortcomings, the short fused

that I had at times hear stories. I had heard the story like, man, this dude is fighting, like you know, don't mess fluid and like a dude, it's a grinding practice games. You're gonna talk ship to you. He gonna do whatever you can to get the edge. And I'm like, all right, I met that guy. I'm like, it ain't

so bad. Everybody get a bad rap now, it wasn't even a bad rap about to get some rap, right, So I get to meet him or what have you, and and I can understand what I'm going with this is I can completely understand with Steve, and I know I know where he's going with this. So you know, anytime people meet me right there was like, oh, you played receiver. They always say receiver, Like, no, I played lineback in the league. Oh you you pretty small for

a linebacker. It kind of pugs you the wrong way every now and again when you don't want to hear. But for whatever reason, when we got the Afghanistan, Steve kept getting this people, hold on, stop, stop stop. We are with the top of the top. We went in in in Afghanistan, the the place that we were deployed

and we went to. First of all, when we got there, we sat on the tarmac for like five hours because we cannot have a time frame to go into the Afghanistan, because we didn't want the the Afghan people or Terrish people too here on ray know when we were landing. So we literally said we sat on the tarmac so much we all like too different gnaps were still on the tarmac. So we finally get there and we're we're

like Navy seals, Navy Army, your forest pilots. We were everybody the top of the top, the toughest are the tough We get there, bro, we ain't there but thirty bang minutes. Oh I thought you were taller. The only person Maye to think was taller was j J. That was it because j J used to right everything. Everybody was getting it, man, But I just felt when I heard it the first time. But normally all right, Steve, he probably gonna brush it off. But he not. Steve

always not back. You know what I'm saying. Not the hat. You're not talking about the hat? No, you having back? Not the hat. Ok. I was like, okay, he's just finding on all cylinders. We had a long commute. Everybody's not kind of you know, everyone's kind of growing give from traveling. Just that the other everybody wants to get to a bad sleep, figure out our schedule later, let's get us where we're going. So just it's over time. Now I'm gonna fast forward through maybe a couple of

days or what have you. That a week, It just we were that week. This would not go away because Steve was you know Steve with Steve when he walks on the bus, when he walks anywhere, people, he just have that that type of personality what people want to be around you. But Steve is you know, he's on, he's fine, right, he's on, he's rolling, and what do you know? These soldiers and full uniform. They keep bringing up, Hey, I thought you were much taller. I guess gets you

what wait you play football? What? Wait? What? Just just will stop and now Steve, he's done. So now this is a day where you know, we're gonna interact with with the soldiers like they put us on a heck of hell of the schedule, man, it was awesome based to base eating different people. We didn't have time. We barely had time to eat. They worked out, asked you hear me? They worked us pretty good. But it was all worth. But this one particular day, we're gonna, you know,

have a little downtime. We're gonna play football, right, so we're gonna play with the soldiers. You know, we're having fun. My intentions, but we're gonna have fun, right. Uh. I don't necessarily know what his intentions was, but he just tried to shoot some bail real quick. Yeah, it was.

It was going great. It was going great. You know, everybody playing Ja having fun, Champ having fun, Von Miller them they're throwing up because he's out of shape, of shape, you know what I'm saying, Like, we're not doing it if they's straining withus. Next thing, you know, I look over and Steve has wrapped up with this guy in the uniform. I'm like, no, they gotta be playing nah, buddy. Active soldier probably thought he was playing. Steve, on the

other hand, was not. We was wrestling that. I'm making sure when you say wrapped up, so he is entangled. So so what happened? Like all boys like, man, you you're small, blah blah. I was like, you know, man, I'm like, well, hey, if you feel like your boat can handle the waves, drop anchor. So he dropped, he dropped up. He dropped his anchor. And so they're letting us wrestle. So me and here wrestling five nine, one nine seven continue out set in the stage to this.

You know, Steve has the guy bare hugged, and now I look over, I can see the guys trying to like really get out of this bear hug that he's done. And on the other hand, every time he moved it was like a python. Every time you move right up,

Steve kept tightening and tightening and tightening. Sudden you hear screen like this man, Steve may have fractured this guy's ribs and active duty soldier all because he thought he was man enough to drop his anchor to try this man that was five nine one night thinking he was too small. Oh my goodness, Yo, that's when I realized this guy, See he is not playing around with folks. Do not mess around with this guy. Great got to be around, but do not make jokes about his height.

You're not pissing them off, because he will choke your ass out. Oh. I don't even have a retort for that man. Only. But on that on that trip, I had the unique opportunity to formulate a bond with you. And in that bond when when truth you know, me and Gerard are really good friends, one of my best friends, and so to get to do this podcast sometimes we I want to say, air dirty laundry, but we talked

about each other's. Uh, there are things Gerard does well that my deficiencies, and there are things I do well that his deficiencies. Me and you were mates, now they were. One time we were mid sleep and the dang siren goes off. Rocket. So this isn't why y'all, why y'all deployed in Afghanistan? You're talking about and you're talking about you've been sleep three. They had given us like the rundown. Okay, you hear sirens, that means there's a missile launch. Were like,

I've already been prepped. Now we we've been prepped and we're staying on the base. It's like a fire drill. You prepared for the fire drill, but in your mind you're gonna I ain't gonna really be no fire. This is it, man, that thing go off. I look at d look at me. You better run, And we had to run to a bucket launcher shelter. Man. Now you've got several athletes, and then someone of the athletes, and then some folks that just ain't athletes. So you're talking about,

you know the old story. I ain't got the out run the bear. I just gotta outrun the last person that we We were just running. You know when black people see other people running, we just run. You don't understand. You don't understand being in that more. I thought I was. We thought for a second, I thought I was gonna die. Yes, I'm scared listening to it. People just running everywhere. I'm like, what the what is y'all running for? What did I come here for? Why didn't we think this was a

good idea? So I got a funny story. So when that happened, right, I guess I was on the phone with my wife. She wasn't my wife at the time, my not wife, and I guess the siren goes off. Well, this was after the sign goes off. We're running around. I called her. I was like, hey, we just had a you know, uh sigren go off. We gotta run to a punker, we gotta we gotta get to safety. And my phone cuts out, and you know, I guess

the day goes by. When the next day goes by, we're doing whatever and my phone is just dead or I don't know, I'm not paying attention to it. I finally called her. She cusses me out because she thought I was dead because I just told her that we had a missile alert that we had to run the shelter. She hadn't heard from me in like ten plus hours. I was like, oh my god, Yo, she cuts me all the way out of that. I'm sorry, man, it's nothing, not gonna do it. I'm sorry, but yeah, crazy time, man,

I think it's about that time. Just so I'll take a little breather. Cut do it, cut do it. Let's get down to do it. Hey Gerard, why did you get that T shirt? You mean this thing? Oh yes, I got it from cut to a podcast dot com where we have exclusive merchandise. Shout out to our guys at seven or four shot. But yeah, you can go on, buy you a T shirt, subscribe to us wherever you listen to podcasts. We were buck mates because we were

anking together. You hear stories and you hear but I saw something that you did that you have later, um, and we've talked about this, you know, off record, UM to to the point of where you are in a place now that you're healthy and that you could share. Yeah, it's it's like it's soul the story. I don't know

where the start, but I can. I'll tell you. This is the first thing that comes to mind, because we we definitely had great conversations, you know, for the first for the very first time us spending that much time together. I trusted you with the information. I don't mind talking about it now, but what I was, what you're referring to is, you know, playing football, you go through injuries, right and you learn to you learn from your environment, you learn to self medicaid, you learn to do different

things just to get you to the following week. So you get paid and you you know, you take care of your family. You sacrifice a ton, not only from a time commitment, but your body. Your sack off, I see your body. And for me, I told both of my packs and it was back to back years two thousand nine, two thousand ten, and I had search season and ends of surgery. So with that came a lot of prescription pills, you know, oxycott and percocet, you know,

things that are highly addictive. And that's just what happened to me. I became highly dependent on this medication, and I was I saw myself going down the wrong path, and you know, and and it just it just didn't feel right because, like we spoke about earlier in the podcast, my follower had the same illness. And I did everything I possibly could as a child, as a young man, now professional athletes to not have that same that that stigma holding holding over over my head. So I felt

like my my life was was unraveling. You know, I was going through a divorce at the time, didn't have a pre nub, I had to sign a big check. You know, I'm looking at my bank account I'm like, listen, that's some money, but that's not the money that's gonna last me the rest of my life. You know, I was really, really in a tough spot, and really in a tough spot. And I'll tell you what it was.

Probably probably when you're in a tough spot as a as a as a, as a young man, as a young woman, or whoever, you realize who the important people are in your life and you basically have to come to a uh. You have to draw a line in the sand. And for me, I drew a line in the same I took myself. I took myself to a place called I amg Academy. I met with therapists, sports psychiatrists. I had a friend named with Dow Williams who at

the time, I was in a tough spot. You know, I was injured, I was pretty much dependent on prescription pills and I was drinking with it. I was basically abusing my body, doing everything I possibly could not to help myself. Right, And my buddy gives me a call and he's from Sierre Leon, He's from West Africa, and he tells me, he's like, hey, Q, you you know I really love for you. To come on this trip. He was like, what's in it for me? You know, like,

what are you talking about? You know, at the time, I was still on my rookie deal um the head coach at the time, you know, in Cleveland's like musical chairs at the head coaching position. But I was spending money as if I was going to sign a new deal. That new deal hadn't happened. Instead, I got injured again, and I was going through rehab again, and all these things just you know, just weren't looking at I wasn't trending in the right direction. I was better, I was mad,

I was all those things to blame everyone else. But then I had a realization after that the Sierre Leone trip, when I removed myself away from all the things that I thought I didn't have, and when I put myself and that place in Sierra Leone at a school, watching young kids with no not no proper clothing, no shoes, bathing and and and ditches, you know, it really really changed my perspective on life. And I looked back at it.

Before that trip, I was very selfish. I was looking at the things I didn't have as opposed to appreciate the things I had accumulated and where I go, how far I had come, and the things I had overcome. And you know, at the time, it's something that was it wasn't all that important to me, but uh, it was important. After the trip to sere Leon was you know, I had the big rims on the car, I had a big diamond change, I had the big charms. I was that guy, right I was. I was that guy

going to the club, you know, just flashing money. I was that guy. When I got back from Siri le On, I got rid of the rims. I started wearing jewelry. I just had a new appreciation and not the jury is bad, but that's just my own way of kind of dealing with it the time. But I got rid of all the superficial stuff, you know, and just really stopped blaming everyone else. I really did a deep dive into myself. I invested in myself. I did all the things I could possibly do to get me out of

this rug. And it was and it was quite frankly me speaking to a therapist, you know, and and at the time, a young black man was like, I don't need to talk to somebody like I'm not crazy. It was a different I had a different perspective of what helped look like. And it changed my life. Man, it really changed my life. So when we met, I was I was, I was dating my new my now wife.

I was in a much better place. And you know, I know a lot of guys like myself who I was a fortunate I was very blessed to come out of that situation. On the better hand, a lot of guys, you know, life starts and unraveled. They don't seek the proper help, they don't take chances, they don't meet people like Steve that you could talk to. And you know, and from that moment, you know, if I text you

or whatever, you always it's got back to me. And that's so important with guys like ourselves, where you played the game and you become remove away from that environment of brotherhood, you get attached to anything and it necessarily may not necessarily be the right thing. So for me, it was it was one of those moments where I look back, Oh, it gives me chills thinking about it, man, it really does, because it was a tough moment. Many

days I wanted to give up. Many it was like, man, screw this, but I knew if I went back to Largo, if I looked my uncle in the eyes and look the I did not want to see disappointment in his eyes. I did not want to squander away this opportunity to make right of the bad choices that I had made up until that point. Through this whole process you stayed in in the beginning when we started this podcast, you

talked about a huge influence in your life. Was Uncle Charles through this process of meeting me in Afghanistan, meteor going through a divorce, worse, getting back on into the life of you know, trying to find someone else because God has all made us relational. You can't just act like you don't need people in the world, no matter how many interceptions or touchdowns you make. You need you

need significant, important relationships. All of this stuff you got going on, Where was Uncle Charles in this dialogue between YouTube as your life is falling apart and manifesting itself into your words, um kind of repeating the same behaviors that your that your father. Yeah, I was embarrassed to say I didn't let him in. You didn't know. You didn't know because I couldn't. I couldn't handle him knowing

that I was slipping. You know, my uncle had looked at me like I was I was living his dream and I knew that, and I knew how much it would packed him and hurt him and me. Being in hindsight, I wish I would have let him in because it would have been a lot easier process for me. But he didn't know. I mean, I would lie to say things are good and this rehab is going here. I would lie about I just I couldn't be honest with him. But I knew I had to be honest with myself

before I could be honest with him. So you know, after the fact, you know I did. You know, I let him in on what was going on, and you know he was pissed at me, but he understood. You know, you gotta figure yourself out. You know, we all have a way of we all have our different ways of dealing with things. Now, going through that process, I know, now you gotta have good people in your corner. And I met my my current wife through that process and

we talked about everything. I'm completely honest, and I have that network of people where I'm not afraid to talk about anything that I may be dealing with Like you mentioned, you know, in the locker room, you think you have all the answers. You think you have enough guys around you. You know that there's a player development guy. I have

to see you this direction the other direction. But when you remove yourself away from the game, you know you really have to you really have to make a conscious effort of making sure and cleansing yourself and having those good people in your corner. We want to go into another part of the podcast that we like to call a deep three, um and so this deep three is really three questions that this allows us to take a deeper dive into you as a person, beyond your profession,

beyond your jersey. So Smithy, go ahead and start with the first question, how has life been for you since retirement? Oh, listen, I've never felt so free in my life, just from a mental standpoint, hold on, hold on free? What do you mean free? So being in locker rooms and being and and basically being groomed in the football culture that

you and I was brought up in. It was it was we're going to tell you how to think, We're gonna tell you what to say, We're gonna tell you what not to say that drove me crazy towards the end of my career. So the probably it hit me a year or two after I was done, I was like, listen, I can tweet whatever I want. I can I can post whatever I want. I could say whatever I want

to the strangers. And I feel like I gotta, you know, represent this this organization that's on the smallest, simplest level, but just just through the and not to get to you know, philosophical. But my last few years was the Colin Kaepernick years, and you know every I love Chuckle gone on to death, love him to death, man. And there was times where I thought we were being told

what to say as opposed to expressing yourself individuals. So for me, that was the most rewarding aspect of removing myself away from that football environment where I was a free thinker. I had time to go invested whatever I wanted to invest. I can go do in ternships. It basically was a free moment from being under scheduled. Uh. For you know levin professional seasons, Queen, what is COVID nineteen taught you about yourself or your relationship? You know,

it's funny. We I just realized then My wife just realized two weeks ago there she thought I would put So I was like, okay, let me let me start. Let me back this up a little bit. Who puts Let me ask you guys a question. I was gonna say, getting right, if we're talking about wife, now, yeah, do you do either of you guys put peanut butter in the refrigerator? No? No, I know some folks that do.

But I want to keep my podcast, so I'm not gonna say which folks to do because because some because because some of the folks that I'm talking about, My wife is the same. So okay, so to that point, right, So I realized doing this pandemic about maybe two and a half weeks ago. My wife had the peanut butter out and she put it in the refrigerator. And you complain so damn hard. Let me get this straight. I was about itself and day I had the peanut butter and I was putting it on the bread, and I

was like like that, I hate hard peanut butter. She was in the kitchen. Woman she was like, well, you're the one that put it, puts it in the refrigerator. I'm like, I don't put peanut butter infrigerator. I only put an in refrigerator because I assume you did it. So we just realized during this pandemic. For you, we've been together over a decade, living together for over a decade, we've been putting the peanut butter. I keep an extra peanut butter in the pantry because it's because I thought

you gotta have a spare of my dude. He thought I put peanut butter in refrigerator, so she would always do it. So yeah, during the pandemic, we realized we both like wart peanut butter. We don't need to put it in refrigerator, all right, So our our last question. You tweeted a while back about Josh Gordon when he was in Cleveland. You have moved on to the July fifth, two thousand fourteen, you tweeted, Yeah, if you're close to Josh Gordon, please help this kid. It's not about football anymore.

It's about picking up the pieces of his life. What led you to put yourself out there? Because you already had signed a two year deal, um and and and signed some pretty good money. You were out and and U with the Colts. You had moved on. You're out of Cleveland. You had no reason to be there. You are you had been on a roster with them, so

you've seen some of that stuff. But I want to ask you that because it wasn't a tweet as if you were putting somebody or throwing shape putting somebody out there. You were tweeting because why Because I had a relationship relationship with him. It was a friendship that you as teammates.

You know, trust me and Josh will tell you. When we were teammates, I saw the amount of talent this guy had and I would there would be times where the head coach at the time, Chazinski, he was like, you know what, you guys aren't going to meet You need to go talk to Josh. And then Josh and I we would chuck ourselves in meeting rooms and I would just try to just get the norm a little better so he can trust me because I wanted to help him. I wanted to help him, you know, in

his life. It was like listen, man, if you can buffle down for these seven to nine months, I ever long the seasons, the season is, you can go do, you can go enjoy, you can go travel, you can go drake, you can go smoke. I don't care what you do. But if you take care of what you need to take care of, you, you can set your life up for the rest of your life and your children's lives if it means that much to you. And

I was just giving him point us. I would just give him, you know, things that I would do to help myself, buckle down and studying a lot more, and sacrifice throughout the season. You know. Uh, just give them like little tools to work with, because we saw it all. We saw the talent, but you know, I saw a lot of myself in him, you know, and we had had I wouldn't have tweeted that if we hadn't had

those conversations before. And I think, you know, behind the scenes before it kind of really blew up and the public really knew about Josh's struggles trust. And there were a lot of people in that building, including myself, And I wasn't Josh's friend on the like seeing type of level, like we didn't go to clubs together and things like that. It was in the building and when I spoke to him, it was real life ship. You know. It's like I want, I care, I care, I care for you probably more

than you care about yourself. Right now, I see you going down a route that I've seen many people go down. I want to put these things. I want to tip your head to you know, what things look out for. So we had that type of relationship, and quite frankly, I just saw a guy, even if he did go to the club during that time, he didn't drink. He wasn't a big drinker, you know. So if you know Josh, he's a fairly reserved guy, uber talent, uber talented, and

just he just needed good people in his corner. Man. And we haven't spoken it in quite some time, but you know, I hope he gets his life together and I hope he has the right people in place to help him do that. Look how it came full circle the way that I do invested in you when when you needed that, when you were in a dark place, and then you're able to come back right back around and do that same thing with Josh. Man. That the

coll that speci to your leadership, bro. It really does about Josh where at the time the GM was he was from Philly, and uh, he called me in his office and this is not realized, like, Okay, this was before the tweet, this is not realized, Like, wow, if you're a player, you know the front office really values your opinion and what you think about other players. So it was a you know, it was a tricky time. It was really confusing that at the time. But I was called in his office and he asked me about

some players, and he asked me about Josh Gordon. And I'm only saying this because I talked to this GM some years later and he told me why he called me in. He wanted to know for me whether or not he should cut or move on from Josh Gordon.

And in so many words, in so many ways, you know, that conversation I saw, I knew what he was doing, but I wouldn't I wouldn't give up on Josh, Like, no, what we need to do is hire somebody ope him, help him, not just worried about him when he's on the field, when he's catching football, but help him when he leaves the building. They decided not to go that route. Josh ends up, you know, going through suspensions and that sat and the other because if they really wanted to help,

they knew how to help him. They knew how to help him, and they weren't willing to do it, and that's when I really realized, like, Okay, you know this is serious. This is a business, and they really care about your talent as opposed to the person I value our friendship, and I remember the day, and until this podcast, I haven't been able to let it go. I've always wanted to hear the story. I always wanted to ask you how that was, because, Um, I grew up with

a lot of things in my family. UM that I experienced a witness as a young man and as an adult with with drug use. And I was actually shocked to see because we had had so much great dialogue. I was like, man, I want to I want to screw this up. I want to preach to him. But also it was very uncomfortable. But I'll tell you this that you never know until today on this podcast, I

haven't shared it. I never told anybody. And that's one of the reasons why I wanted to have you on this podcast, because I knew after all the years we talked via text and played against each other and you knocked in the mess out of me and me trying to hit your back on the football field, and you know, playing against you when you were in India and I was a raven. It was a few times, bro, I looked in your eyes just to see was he clean? And man, I never told a soul. I never out

of you. But I'm I am honored to be able to call your friend. But more importantly, I kept your secret. And I wanted to tell you I kept your secret. And I didn't tell anybody because I didn't want to lose your trust. We played ball as as brothers, but like I stay that God makes us desire and need relationships with people, and at that moment, I knew that guy gave me a person that was pretty darn special, man. And so I just wanted to tell you that I

never told anybody. I never gave that a way because I treasured it and I even though it wasn't it didn't make me comfortable. Mm hm. I knew I needed to keep it inside because I want to give you a chance to to to to do whatever you need to do. So giving me this platform to talk about it, because the more I talk about it, the more you know at peace. I'm at peace with it, you know, and stuff you know, it was it was a dark,

dark time for me. And uh, you know, if I could help someone listening, you know, whether it be a player or not, someone listening to know you know what, you got to write people around you, you got you really want to change. You can, but it will be difficult, but it's a life at the end of the time. Quinn really spoke about lifting others up underneath him, like Josh Gordon, and trying to find them support inside and

outside of the facility. Why is that important? I mean when you talk about the people um that that that he's referring to, those people need to support. They still need support. And he also revealed that he needed support support and he has some things going on that he didn't feel comfortable enough addressing or bringing to light. Now obviously he's healthy and he's uh went through the proper channels to to to advance and to bring light to what he experienced. So I think it was it was needed.

I loved I love talking to uh the quail Man. He's a real dude, but also too he's been through some things and sometimes people who are very judgmental really haven't been through it. But the people who are their understanding but not tolerant. He's more of an understanding because he understands the journey, he understands the battle that they went through. So it was really cool and and just

great conversation. It was it was really cool. The Quail gave us an opportunity to peek into his recovery and just to peek into his is a life as a man. Do you think there's enough support? No, four players like m H there's not because one that requires the players to come forward to be able to have they can have data analysis and understanding what they need. But um and also two guys are hiding because of shame, so there's not a lot of guys open. There's not a

lot of guys that are sharing their thoughts. So how is the team going to be able to support them if they don't know what they need support on? But there are more players who need to speak up that teams don't even know about. Cut to It with Steve Smith Senior. That Is Me is a production of Cut to It, LLC, Baltold Creative Media, The Black Effect, and

I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the i Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows from Cut to It executive producer Steve Smith, singer co host Gerard little John, talent and booking manager Joe Fusci, social media manager Peyton Smith.

From Balto Creative Media Cut Too. It is produced by Brian Baltaschevitch and Meredith Carter, with production existence by Alex Lebrec, Production manager Sarah Hollock, Theme music by Alex Johnson, lyrics and vocals by Anthony Hamilton. You ain't heard about it, then we're about to let you. Now it's all