C. J. Sapong Part 2

MLS Rookie of the Year in eleven. He won an MLS Cup in and he's the co founder of the Black Players Coalition for MLS. C J Pong on the Cut to It podcast. This is Part two with c J. Say Pong on why the how soccer just about him and what he believes in and in and what he's experiencing in soccer. Part one was a lot about his h his past and what he experienced and what he learned about his his family, his community uh in Ghana.

But then also now we're talking about his soccer career MLS and also too you're here, um what he desired, what he likes about soccer and how he wants to impact the soccer world. When everything you're going back and forth, you have so much heritage oozing out of your family, how does that impact you, like as a as a high schooler going to college, just really starting to form.

You're in Virginia, you're kind of dealing with that. You're going back and forth every couple of summers, going to Ghana, dealing with that, you know, getting embraced and your friends and your family tribe, and then you go to Virginia and you're playing soccer and all that stuff. It had to be, you know, very confusing to switch like that so much and experience it's literally like hands and Tales of of life for a young man. Yep, yep, you're

wearing different masks. You know, you're turning up the black situation. Yeah, you're turning down the black here, you're turning it up there. You're wondering who you are, bro. I didn't really find my true nature until probably my third year as a professional soccer player. When you say true nature, what are

you pertaining to? True nature? True nature is my own understanding and awareness of my frequency, right like who I am and again not consistently robbing myself of who I am to make this person comfortable or to sound cool on this interview, or you know, like just I found myself from an early age, you know, from the first time I went to school and somebody made a comment about how dark I am compared to everybody else, you know, and and I remember my parents telling me I would

always have to work twice as hard as simply because of that, you know, and that led to I mean, I I think I was fortunate that I didn't you know, I didn't want for nothing, Like most of the things that I asked for, I did get, um, but it was tough having that childhood uh mental construct just follow me up until you know, three years into the league, where again I had to go to a dark place where you know, we won a championship in my third year in the league, and that was like my dream.

That was my goal, was to win a championship at the professional level. And I did it. And then the next month you right back at work and it's like, oh, we're gonna do it again, and I'm like, damn, I didn't even really get to like let that ship marinate, Like we gotta do it again. All right, cool, let's do it. But then that season didn't go like everybody wanted.

You know, I wasn't playing as much anymore. I got sent to our like minor league team, and and again it had me questioning the question that popped up at many moments in my life. But I always found something to hide it, found something to stifle it. It's like, who are you? What are you doing? You know? And this is even and this is still after being able to go to Africa. You know, I had that moment it was true and and ripe for a good you know, six months to a year. But then shoot you and

a America. American life just takes over and it's keeping up with the jones is. It's looking cool, it's staying fresh, having new kicks. You know. It's like chasing, continuously chasing without Like you said, Hope, I don't even know what we're chasing for it sometimes, you know, whereas now when I say true nature, it's a complete understanding, not even just image wise of what I'm trying to create for myself, my family and this world, but innate feeling of what

it's going to bring me. You know. That's what takes that to the next level is knowing that, you know, right now at the feeling that whether it's fifty sixty on a rocking chair, not because I ain't doing ship, but just because I'm taking a moment and and understanding that in that moment, I have so much to still live for, you know, And and that's a very empowering feeling,

and it it empowers me every day. And I literally I got lots of hope, you know, like I got the the budget, the plans, the financial goals, all that's just you know, written up in documents. So that's that's helped me, you know, more centralized, the focus more in and now when I leave wherever my my place of dwelling is, at that moment, I walk into the day, and I walked into the world with my chest high

and an excitement. Honestly, you go to James Madison University and you I read some stuff that that said that your decision to go to college was based on education, and I'm I kind of chuckled at that because then I look at some of the offers that you had University of Virginia that that ain't a school for dummies, you know, So to take us through that recruiting process of how how you came to that decision just to choose college, especially after you know what, all this stuff

that you've experienced so far as a I don't want to say African American, African that happened to live in America. Yeah. Yeah, the education was a plus, but mostly well one my college soccer coach, Uh, may he rest in peace, Tom Martin just past. But I owe a lot to this man because he told me from the job. Look, I'm not gonna tell you you're gonna start. I'm not gonna tell you you're sitting on the bench. What I will tell you is you have an opportunity to compete. That's

all I wanted to hear. Virginia they said, yeah, yeah, Virginia. They said, oh, we're thinking by your junior year you'll start. Other schools were telling me, yeah, we're you know, I was a forward. I want to score goals. Other schools is telling me, now, you're gonna be a defender here, like, nah, don't tell me what you know, don't place parameters on me.

Allow me to again find myself. And Massive university at the time was known for uh yes, they're still known for parties, so I know at the time, I'm like, they still don't know for parties. I went to community college and I had a partner go uh to James Madison for linement um there and he talked about it so much like bro like because he's from Cali, so it was a you know, it's a big step and he went out there. He said, oh, I ain't know

it went down like that. Down it because here's why you got the rejects that can't go to Virginia and then you have Blacksburg. You got Virginia Tech, and then James Madison's like it's right in the middle. It's it's like second base. You got first base and then's second basis James Madison, I ain't gonna appreciate your calling them rejects though, Bro, I'm just calling it. Bro. You noticed another reject school, South Carolina because they say the USC

you ain't us, You're the University of South Carolina. Now you're really about It's true though I didn't go to either one. But I'm just telling you, yeah, no, not that that was a big thing for me is the I knew I was gonna again. The other schools was like, yeah, here, we do a dry season, no alcohol during the season. You know, different guys like that were hit. Yeah, you gotta be wet to dry out. Yeah eleven, you were drafted tenth overall, so you're in the top ten pick.

Take us through because football being a top ten pick, man, it is a circus. It is a circus. So you know, obviously MLS does not have that much eyes as the NFL. But y'all, but you got a little bit. Take us through that. What the what the soccer circus was for you being a top ten pick? You know, it's interesting. I had a very different experience than most guys that go top ten. I went to a team. Uh the coach, he didn't he didn't care what the number you ain't.

I still had to try out. You know, every other player in the top ten had a had a contract before they even stepped on the field. I had to go through a month and a half the preseason before I even saw it. Why why do you not get a guarantee being number ten? Well one, I didn't have

a good agent. Uh yeah that was that was because I was a what you call, I guess somewhat of a sleeper coming up So it wasn't until I was at the combine that I realized I had a strong opportunity of getting picked in a whole bunch of agents where like in my face. And I ended up going with a guy that was like from where I lived, and he made it seem like he he really knew

what he was doing, but he really didn't. And so they actually try to get me on like a on a reserve contract, which basically means it's like a practice squad contract. They try to finesse me hard. But you know, I I actually have always excelled in those positions, whether it's being an underdog or continuously having to to grind and work towards something. Um, because I could safely say I earned my contract my first contract in this league.

There's guys that have gone number one, number two, never even played a professional game, you know, out of the league. And two to three years you said the combine. Should they have a combine for for these players or what is that entail? Yeah? Man, I think it's different structure now. But for me, if you call it a combine, I mean, bro, we played three scrimmages, right, We did a forty yard dash, we did a vertical test and I think like a shuttle runner. And that was a combine. You know. So

the teams did they interview you? Yeah? Every Yeah, the teams interview you. You know, you're at the little resort and every every day you gotta you know, a list of appointments if you will. And that was a wild, wild, wild experience for me. Um, But I do think I what I was. I definitely gained points with how I spoke. You know, I had the feeling that I wasn't that typical black man that that a lot of these guys were expecting. I don't want to say it's sad to say,

but you guys know how it is. You can feel I want to I want I don't know what you mean, but yo yo yo, talk about talk about it, don't. Yeah. So it's like you, you know, you're sitting down and um, once you start having the conversation and you, I guess, articulate what's on your mind, or you use a uh quote unquote big word or fancy word here and there, and then you get the the little raised either or the wow you speaks to speak so well, Yes, exactly,

exactly exactly. That's how they do and then it's interesting for me because I think my first year that's what made me very marketable as well, because oh it snap number ten pick right. I wasn't giving a hype as you know, right off the bat, but when you know, my first game, I scored two minutes into the game, so then like yeah, hell yeah. So they're like okay

a little bit and then they interview it. Yeah, you know the interview, I not only showed personality, but I was able to articulate, you know, how I was feeling, how the plays, uh that led up to me scoring, you know, stuff like that, and that's when they're like okay, and then they asked me to do the interviews here they're everywhere, you know, and like again that I've heard the damn he speaks so well. Well, so it's such

a well spoken kid. You know, you were such an exactly, and like that's a little aspect where people don't realize, like, damn sure you in that result of being a well spoken having that charisma, being able to have the game to back it up, you became rookie of the year. Yes, yes, sir, yes sir, you become rookie of the Year. Let me pause for a little bit, though, because I've had this UM. I had this enlightenment when you really think of about it.

Um of sometimes sports really mimics because right next to my question, I have Kate Coast and it enlights me to understanding like sports, A lot of the sports, a lot of athletes are people of color. And the combine is almost like the slave trade. And let's go down memory lane, because you bring all of these individuals, you put them on the airplane, and you heard them into one centralized location. And then you have all other people that are coming in and they examine you. They they

prod you. They see, let me see how strong this boy is. Let's see how strong you are. Can you carry the work loan? Do you have the mental capacity? What is his his deficiencies? And what is his attributes? And then they all they have a draft, and was the draft? If someone likes you, what did they do? They barter with someone else to move up to get their special workload, and they examine you and they look at you, and then they decide what's your value, and

then they get you and they take you off. And I had that. I was I was kind of nearing my end of my career. And I was at the combine and I bumped into a kid and he was hurt. He was being herded in at the combine. I'm like, bro, this is mom to day slavery. And I didn't really see it that way. Now, somebody listening and say, really, Steve,

mother and day slavery, right, you you really saying? All I'm saying is it just really has something very familiar with people coming into a place and bidding on God and and and the differences that we are free and we have the opportunity to choose to participate in that. But one of the unique things not everybody does. Right. So, as I side tracked on that, I go back to Rookie of the Year. What did that success due to

your mind? So early on, six seven months after getting drafted. Um, Honestly, it was very humbling because it was, like I said, it wasn't easy for me. Um, it didn't necessarily come naturally. It came from a lot of sacrifice, a lot of effort. Um. So I couldn't help but just really feel grounded in and knowing that all the work that I have put into the game, all the you know, nightouts with the homies that I missed to go because I knew how

a soccer game the next day. It made me really feel Uh but was that a sacrifice or was that you try you changing and becoming a professional in your own dedication. Because some people say sacrifice, You're like, well, how you can you sacrifice this your job? So was it a really the sacrifice or was it just you locking in saying if I really because you weren't given the success, You weren't giving that big contract you have to earn your contract. They like you said, they made

you try out as the tenth overall pick. Oh hey, bro, I was saying it was sacrifice when I was younger, when I was a pro, like my first year, I obviously I was learning to be a good pro, but I also have me a good time. I actually think

that had a good Uh. That had a strong bearing all my success too, because it while I wanted to, you know, perform for my team, I also so consciously understood the importance of being loose and being happy and you know, not confining myself or boxing myself in into again a mental construct of what I have to do to be good. Right people, will you see players, they're real strict with the diet. You know, Um, they don't leave a house. They're playing the Xbox and Whatnotum, just

to stay in a crib. Whereas me, like I was stepping out, I was, you know, seeing stuff in the city. Uh, this was Kansas City, and that is I believe that that's dope though, because you don't you don't really don't hear a lot of athletes saying I enjoy I had I had fun that I never really heard that before. I'm eating, breathing shocker. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean I had good guys around me too. I had a lot of brothers, I had a lot of Uh. I had one of my best friends still to this day, Kakumara,

he from Sierra Leone. So he understood. You know that that culture aspect um that I've been talking with you guys about, you know, was able to kind of keep me honed in on one. Yes, like we are professionals and we we gotta perform, but at the same time, our families and what we've come from and the things that we've gone through to be here right now in America,

we came here to enjoy too. You know it it's not so well It shouldn't solely just be a job, right you You do hear of countries where families and members have to come to America to find a better life and and they and they slave away at the end of it. But they need to be able to find a time to enjoy. Um, you know what they're what they're living in, and what they're doing. Otherwise, what is the point of this all? We have to take a break and the morning thing. We gotta pay some bills.

You got checks. I love cut to It and I love it even more when you download us and subscribe, and you can follow us on social media too, Smithie where where at? That's at? Cut to It on Instagram? What about Twitter? At? Cut to It Facebook? Cut to It featuring Steve Smith singr. What about online? And you can follow us at cut to It podcast dot com where you can buy merch and you can subscribe to us wherever you listen to podcasts. I got all my

answers questions. Um, yeah, I got all my questions answered. That's what I'm here for, a brother, cut to a Podcast dot Com. Let's talk ball and for you, ball's soccer and some kids out there listening, how do they become a professional soccer player? How to become a professional soccer player? Well, I think it starts with you know how bad you want it? Man? And I think you hear that a lot. But the next step is what is a kid willing to do to become a professional

soccer player? Do they? Are they training an extra thirty minutes after practice? Are they you know, ensuring that the food that they're putting in their body is gonna maximize their their performance the next day? Are they visualizing and envisioning you know those moments? Uh, it's it's it's not cookie there's no cookie cutter way too to it, you know, Like I think it's it's all within your heart and your passion and believing that you are not necessarily it's

not like, oh, believe it and you will achieve. You need a form of belief, but you need a form of action because that that cliche, you know, it's and it sounds good, right like guys believe and you will achieve. It's like, okay, that's one part of it. You can

believe it exactly. And that's that's where I think if we as you know, us as adults, can kind of instill that if the kids will start to see, you know, especially within our community, you'll start to see a lot more athletes, not justin basketball or football, but like soccer, uh lacrosse, baseball. You know, understanding that there are other sports and other avenues in which we as people can utilize our strengths. So my my son gave me this.

My son used to play soccer, blew out his knee, and I asked him, give me something I can ask c J. He said, you know, Dad, because he was a forward, but because he uh, he played on the soccer team that um, they couldn't really feed him the way he need to be fed. But he was a great distributor. But then when he got to college, he struggled because he played so much as a center mid. He struggled to play the right back or the forward.

He could he because he mentally and physically his muscle memory was giving other people opportunities to create for them that he could not have the ability. He didn't know how to switch it over to conversion. Yeah, he couldn't create his own shop. So he he asked me to ask you, which was really cool, especially for him because he doesn't he's still in that stage where he's he's being vulnerable with his dad, but he doesn't want the I told you so to come out of my mouth.

And I tried very hard not to give him that, but it was really transparent on his He says, what do you do when him teammates or coaches seem to lose confidence in you? How do you stake self confidence? I think for that one, that's where as a as an individual, you gotta get really creative, man, because look, the tricky part of that is if you're looking for that confidence from that confidence you get from your teammates and your coach should just be the sprinkles. You need

to have it within your own self. And I I personally know because of a lot of times in my career I was looking for that and when I didn't get it, it affected my performance. That's when I went back to the lab and I just it's repetition. We

as athletes. If again, if he was playing college soccer, he's smart enough in the game to know what his strengths and what his weaknesses are, that's where you have to say, you know what, all right, that I'm gonna go back to my personal lab and I'm gonna find all the things that I don't do right, I'm gonna do each fifty times. I'm gonna do each a hundred times.

You know. That's like you said, muscle memory. The thing is, when you get to college and professional you are now the block that they're trying to fit into the into the whole. You could be a square block. They try to put you in a circle like they are doing what they are doing to ensure that the team wins, and that they win. They're not about that mortgage day and out there coaching individuals to make them better, you know.

So at the end of the day, if we are looking to them for validation, we're ultimately going to be in a Yes, it might work out for a little bit, but I've seen with guys that are not playing now are even looking for that in their workspaces, you know. And it's just a dangerous circle or cycle to get lost in when you're continuously looking for confidence from other people.

So that's that's the best I can give, because I also know in doing that and relying on yourself, you will be able to take that into other things in your life will be successful. I guess when I say teammates because I have seen it right. You could be on the pitch and you know in basketball, shoot or shoot, whether you how to code, it's the only way to

come out of it where you how to cold. If you're a shooter, the center is not gonna take that three if if, if the shooter is at the three point in the baseline wide open, he's not he's not even gonna dunk it because that's three two and three. Don't don't add we're gonna get that three point. But when you're a forward, you know you're judged on on shots. Right. It's always funny as you know, I know, learn this soccer lingo. Oh that's unlucky, brom. I'm the one who's

soccer games for so long. They'd be like, that's unlucky. And I'm a football guy, right, I'm a realist too. I'm like, now they ain't lucky. That boy just got got bullied off the ball missed. I'm like the goal had been in the same spot. Oh day, unlucky, unlucky. You're right, you're right, bro, Like he missed that damn go by. What are you talking about? Yeah, m lucky,

Johnny's awful. That's the thing with soccer in this country because you know, it's such a and I'm not arguing either way here, but that's where it is different than like a football and basketball, because soccer is more of that, you know, participatory sport and it's about working in the

group and everybody, everybody gets to play, you know. So because that's the foundation, you see it in later stages to yeah, yeah, how do you handle because you're saying, get back to the lab, you know, maintain your own self confidence, you know, working out it get you know, you gotta get tricky, you know, with your own self. You gotta do that drill fifty to a hundred times a day. But what happens when your actual teammates start to see that brother ain't unlucky day, that brother just

off and then they start to pass around you. You're you're you're a forward. The ball must go to you, and that it's not going to you. How do you handle when your teammates have lost confidence in you they're passing around you? There the coaches, you know, ball still in playing you can see your backup and starting to warm them up, right, you know, y'all doing that little patent kick butt kickers on the side here, you know,

how do you not peek over? You know, in a corner of your eye you see that you're about to be replaced. Ye, you can't, You don't, bro I've even gone through that as a pro my last year in Chicago and ended up coming out that this guy and his wife were racist. So I got some closure and understanding why. But there's this guy on the field. Man, I'm making the best possible runs I can make. I'm sitting in positions to score open goals, and this dude

just wouldn't pass me, wouldn't pass, wouldn't passed? Whenn't passing? Like I'm in my head like damn, Like what am I doing wrong? Right? And I'm coiling up clips and showing it to the coaches asking them, Hey, what can I do better here? And you know they're giving Honestly, they were giving me fu answers because they knew what the deal was. At the end of the day, I missed them, and I've been I've been pretty alert. What what did I miss? What did they know? They knew?

Man's with racist? But this this, that's a whole another story. Well, there's my pocket, don't you dropped there? Let's let'sten handle and I've bo I ain't picking up them bread chrome all the way back to doctors Wilderness. What what what you're talking about? You said, Yeah, keep over, we just skip over. But I'm I'm in here no, because it all, it all does what it does, circle back to and essentially what can be done in those moments. Right. So I got traded to Chicago Fire at the beginning of

two thousand nineteen. I came to a team that had a striker who scored I want to say, like eighteen goals the season before. Um, they had another guy, you came, Yeah, so I came, that's called competition. Yeah, exactly, it's healthy. Um yeah. So I was fortunate because the first game of the season, that striker, uh, congrats and him had a child and so he missed the first game, and so I stepped in. I end up scoring in our in my first game with the team. So I just built.

I just went off of that momentum, and you know, I scored within I think the next like eight or nine games, I probably had like four or five goals. And so like, it's weird because I want I felt I want to say I felt it. And when I say I felt it, it was the discomfort with me, just me as a person in this locker room. Um, my team in Philadelphia, which was my previous team, had brothers, go Lore, we had Islanders, we had um some dudes from the Caribbean, we had Africans, lots of brothers. It

was five we dancing in the locker room. And then with in Chicago, I was one of two in the locker room. How many owners squad like reserve? Oh yeah, let and so there's twenty people that are not of different descent historically they all look the same. Well, there's some Hispanics in there, you know, but there's mostly uh like white boys, Eastern on this particular team, it was Eastern European like pol In, uh, Serbia, h you know, German. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

C J. Did that experience help shape and lead you to form the Black Players Coalition for the MLS? Oh yeah, oh yeah, that was one of the That was one of the stories because we're not we had because I'm on the board, right, So we had a call with our commissioner and all the coaches in the league, and you know, to be fair, like they don't know what they don't know, they've just been a lot of people

who have just been blind to it. You know, they they made the mistake of asking us like where we actually experienced racism or systemic injustice, And I mean we all went down the line and we gave them, you know, they they experiences and the examples. And for me that was a big one because I'm on a team, I'm trying to win and my man's was literally refusing to pass me the ball when it put us in positions

to win. And regardless of color, if you're a coach or a fan or whatnot, when you if you see that, I believe it should be called out, not if not for the racism, for the sheer fact that we have all put on this jersey with this crest to win and because of you and a bullshit or whatever is in your your head, you are now restricting the team or being uh hindrance upon our success. Yeah, And it was just outrageous to me that it went on for

as long as it did. How was that meeting with all the other players with the coaches to bring them together, to bring you all together? Did did you feel like the coaches were listening or did you feel like y'all were just like it was a bit session right here. Yeah, man, it felt it felt real in the moment, but then as things you know, have transpired, I feel like it was just it was just a little session. And you know,

people get on. Yeah they said, oh well we listened to you guys, we hear you, okay, and we're gonna do better. But then, you know, everything is the old status quo. You know, like we shoot for instance us we we may whole black lives matters, Black lives matters, or for our little bubble tournament. And now you know already people you know within the league there, Oh, we don't need those shirts anymore. We gotta let our sponsor, Our sponsors have to be seen. Guys, come on, like,

you know, we've got to keep on. We gotta go with regularly scheduled program like damn, like y'all gave us to three weeks and thought that was there, Hunt, you got your black history in June and July. Yeah, you know, February come around the corner, now, run along, man. Oh man, It's it's sad and and and it shows how deep the injustice is. It's it's really really deep, man. And you know, whether it's that situation or a situation where players literally willing to put his team in a position

to lose. It's something that I think is gonna take a long time. But you know, us having these conversations is the is the is the way to start it. It's gonna take a minute. But if we can't have these conversations, and like you said, invoked some cringe and some visceral reactions and it definitely is not going to change. So what has happened to the individual that you're speaking about? You know, you I cut you off, but I wanted

to say I didn't want to for the store. Now moving forward, you know you saw you just weren't the person complaining. He moved on to another team and then what happened? Yeah, so he went on to another team hit when the uh situation with George Floyd happened, and you know, there are protests all around the country. His wife actually posted something on Instagram was a picture because

you know there's a lot of looting. She found a picture of some black people in front of the store, some had some shoes in their hands running and you posted in serbian, oh black lives or black Nikes matter guys, and UH followed that post up with another picture of some looting and some black folks and and Serbian again said kill them allow, yes, heal them all, kill them all.

I don't know she thought that. Um, you know, technology can trash like she was doing it on the love she was just let me hit him in So they all them other ones ain't gonna know what this means. Oh my gosh, your husband plays for a professional soccer team in l A. Though like she knew, Yeah she didn't, so he got so what happened? So from that, well,

so this is what happened. So that yeah, right, so that happened, And obviously there was just uproar from a lot of people fans of the team, like yo, this is unacceptable this that and the other and the Galaxy l A team. They actually, you know, they invited him and the player, they invited him to have a meeting too,

I guess, discuss the situation. And I don't. That's mighty nice of them, right, must be, must be, uh that we can let's let's talk about this, okay, imagine, But um, I don't know what was said in that in that meeting. I heard that essentially, they want they asked him to basically put out a statement apologizing and he refused, and so they're like, all right that you're gone. Wow, So do you think that that's this individual that we're not naming? You can always look it up. Do you believe this

individual will get picked back up? You already did. He went back to his home country and he's on. He's on, I think one of one of the best teams out there in Serbia. So yep, just like that. What moving along, Jill? That vibe at Kendrick. This it just shows you, man, Like, that's how deep I think it's about that time. Just so I take a little breather. Good do it, good do it. Let's getting down to do it. Hey, Gerard, why did you get that T shirt? You mean this thing?

Oh yes, I got it from cut to a podcast dot com where we have exclusive merchandise shout out to our guys at seven or four shot. But yeah, you can go on, buy you a T shirt, subscribe to us wherever you in the podcast. What does playing in the email last me to you? Today? Man? Today, it's a it's now. It's the platform, man, it's um uh

opportunity to continue to play the sport. I love, continue to try and master my craft, but also bring emphasis and attention two things within our society that I believe are very important and um necessary to be brought to attention if we're gonna move in a way that's conducive for all of us as people. Man. Um, I've really found in a new sense of motivation. Um, I've really found a centralized focus on what I want to accomplish

for myself and my family. And I'm excited now. I mean I've always been excited every time have to feel, but it really hits different these days, man, because I I really understand the position that I've didn't put in and with my history and my family and and all the things that I've made me who I am. Uh today two really feel like this is what you were

meant for. Um. You know, It's an amazing feeling, and I'm looking forward to doing it as long as I can, and then continuing to push the views and the the life in the world that I would I would like to see. Afterwards, I want to shift to something. Because you are arrested with the dun and and and reckless driving. He was found not guilty, However, you were required to go into a treatment facility and mallible and according to your worship, change your life. Shure. Then how how did that?

How did that? Man? So this is a great I love this topic because, um, it's probably the onset of my transformation, getting arrested and being I mean, if I can kind of exploite that that story. So I got stopped at Philly late night. I went out. I was not drunk, but you know, I was out late and I didn't know my way around the city. And all right,

I'm sure this has happened too many people. But you know, when you're kind of you're taking the exit and maybe you accelerated a little too hard and maybe not enough. You know, you kind of do that wide super wide turned on the exit. That's what That's what happened with me. But it was two am in the morning. There happened to be a cop sitting you actually found you sound like you were over there by getting off on that extra It was around there. It wasn't around there. Those

those terms are very wide excellent. It wasn't around there, it was and there was also construction going on and right right and uh, it was the night of a demonstration for Freddy Gray. I don't know if you guys remember very gray in Maryland? Yeah, okay, yeah, so um So the reason why that stuff is important is because I didn't find out until a year later that the cop who stopped me didn't even see me. He didn't see anything that he was telling or that he wrote

in his report that he saw. It was actually another cop who was behind me. Who in mind you? I had, you know, a nice white C three hunted, blacked out tent, vinyl, black vinyl top, black rim flex flex sex so you know, yeah, exactly so he um the cop a cop behind me, saw me take the exit radio to the cop in front, said hey, man, I don't know what he said, right, because they told they in their report they said, oh

this guy, uh is reckless. He almost hit a traffic cone, which there was cones everywhere, but either way, I get they stopped me too. Yeah, so you know, I get stopped. Two of them approached my car. First thing, he said, how much have you had to drink? I said, bro, I haven't had nothing. It was like, no, you drink, I can smell it. Like, how much have you had to drink? Said? I haven't drink anything? All right? Give me a license, all right, So I'm looking at give

him my license and asked for their registration. And to be fair, like my glove box had a lot of stuff in there, and I knew I didn't do anything wrong, So I took my time right and I could I could feel my man's getting so like heated. It's like, yo, I don't have all fucking day. Give me your I'm like, oh, I'm looking for it right now. He said, no, what effic get out the car. I'm like, why do I need together get out the car now? So, like I said,

it was a whole day of Freddy Gray joints. So I'm not trying to, you know, uh, antagonize this guy and makes the situation worse than it needs to be, takes me out, runs me through, you know, sobriety tests, which the judge literally a year later saw the video and said he's now going to use that dash Camp footage as a basis for the rest of his cases because that's the best one he's ever seen. But these dudes would look like, I mean, do this, do that,

do this, do that in in aggressive ways. You know, I'm before I actually do it. I just asked them, you know, like, can you explain that slower please, because you're talking fast. I just want to make sure I do this right. I did it. I did everything he said. You know what, You're still getting arrested. Not only did you almost hit that cone, you almost hit me. And I'm like, all right, now you're BS and I didn't hit you, Like look I'm not. I'm just trying to

get home. I'm new to the city. I don't want no problems. It's like, no, you're going to jail night. So they took me, man, they took me in. They they the tactics they use. Bro, there's five or six other people getting literally getting booked for d wise. I mean there's dudes passed out, bro, like stumbling and like drunk drunk, and I'm in here. They got like four officers in there, and three of them are in my ear yelling take your shoes, take your places on, hurry up.

We don't have all of the clearly trying to intimidate, and um, I get through and they sent me down. One cop is behind me, when is next to me, one's across from me. They just start putting papers in front of me. All right, signs this this says that da da da da da da da. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa whoa? Slow down, bro, what am I signing? Like? Come on? It's like, I just told you what you're signing, and I said okay. So he gave it to me and I sat there and I started to read the paper.

Would you believe these cats ripped the paper from in front of me and said, yo, what are you doing. I said, I'm reading the paper, said They said, no, don't read the paper. I told you what's on it. I said, look, I understand that you guys are a little a little fussed right now. Whatever, I'm not doing anything until I'm not doing anything. I'm not signing anything until I eat that paper. And then that's when one of them said, oh, that's a refusal. He refused, Lock

him up. And in Pennsylvania, a refusal is a tier three d U. I wow, so that's how that's how you were booked on that. That's how I was booked on that, bro. And then they proceeded to keep me and they kept me in the tank for twenty plus hours before even allowing a phone call. And it's funny because I was literally in there and meditating these caps was like, who is this? Mother? Like who is this dude? So we haven't you know, we had a conversation. I

had a conversation with my producer. She said he CJ was meditating for twenty hours. I said yeah, because in the first four this can't be real. And then he was like, you know what, I gotta get through this if I can get to get out of here. You're like the first he was like, two hours. How they gotta be joking. Three hours, man, they are not playing with me. Yeah, speaking too, huh yep, bro oh, And

I mean people are in there just screaming, yelling. Man, it's going wild, and they're like they tossing the little cheese sandwich on the floor. I didn't even touch it, bro, I didn't touch nothing. I'm like, look, I'm in here whatever, Like it was a shitty situation. But twenty hours later, come out my my sporting my technical director for the team got me out. My mom had come up, you know, and everybody's like just just the disappointment, and I'm sitting

there like, yo, look it ain't what y'all saying. Before I could even explain myself, the league releases. Uh statement up, see this part is arrested on d uy charges, this, that and the other. My the substance behavior and Abuse program. They hit me up saying, hey, look like, because you refuse, you're looking at jail time. So you have to go to the rehab basically because then we're gonna try and say, okay, those days that you had in rehab should be taken

off your sentence. They're trying to work the system just to help you out because they also know how the system in exactly exactly. Um, and I'm over here like wait what Obviously this is the means I'm missing games. Obviously everybody's over here thinking I'm some alcoholic, Which that

wasn't even the worst part about it for me. It was just the fact that like I had, I had just I had had just came back from an injury before that, I had a concussion for like the first month of the season, and um, it was tough, man, Like, it was very bad concussion. It was hard to uh, you know, get myself up certain days. And I was just getting back scored in my first game back and

then boom, gotta go do this. Um, but man, they you know I'm in ma A Bou, like they said rehab, but that the treatment facility was just a different level. You know, had had our own chef, like everything gluten free, like organic, we were doing tai chi equine therapy. Uh you get massages. They were letting me off the off

the site to work out and stuff. You know. So it was like a crazy little unplugging, uh disconnect that I got, like you can't be on your phone and you know, through the normal, the normal procedure of a rehab facility, I was able to understand that while I might have not had an addiction to alcohol, there was many other addictive qualities of my life, and like understanding the different methods and practices that are out there to

bring more self awareness into your experience. It changed. It just really changed my perspective of everything, and I began to find again my true nature. Right. I began to understand Wow, like I even just how I was being an asshole to the I mean, I wouldn't say I was being an asshole, we will, oh, you know, I mean I was page just like I'm going to read every line, you know. But and it kind of goes back to what you said, you know, in that bitter place.

You know, it's a night where people are literally, uh marching in the streets because a guy like got killed by the cops, you know, and I'm like, oh yeah, I bet y'all profile me, and I felt bitter. And that's where I realized, like, rather than channel that energy into basically just gaslighting a situation, how do I channel that into either making myself a better person or using that to make my surroundings better. And that's that's where it really all started from me. Man, Like, that's that's

what led to the ideation of my nonprofit. I'm Philly.

Um that's what's led to you know, right now. I got to working on to two businesses right now kind of based on sustainability and um one is based on sustainability that have plant and then another is based on, uh bringing lifestyle skills and lifestyle management into athlete representation to kind of you know, provide athletes all these different mechanisms that I had through you know, a wild journey, so that there's an ability to again find value and

worth in your own self and continue to take that into your career. And obviously after um so yeah, and it was Malibu California. Bro, Like I was waking up to sun rises like right on the water. Uh you know it was it was I got to the dude that owns the house had another house right down the street that had a soccer field. So like I'm getting a train, you know, like by myself. Again it's callie like and ironic. I ended up meeting my fiance and mother of my child that I just had it all

ended up. It has a funny way of coming full circle. It really does. This This segment we got coming up, last segment will wrap up. It's called the Deep Three, and it is three questions that really enable us to go take a deeper dive, you beyond the soccer field. So Soothy, go ahead and ask me first, what luggage have you carried around that has slowed your journey? Oh, I would say childhood trauma of continuing to find validation. Literally a lot of the topics that came up today.

You know, it's easy for me to not easy, but I can say I can see what I need to do to get out of that. But it doesn't mean that it's completely gone. You know, there was times when I was younger that moving through my days, I searched for validation from parents and teachers. You know so much that like if I didn't consistently get that, it just

weighed down on me. And even today, you know, in little moments, I can find myself, um, just thinking the worst based off of maybe just miscommunication right, or like a facial expression that I read wrong. What would you want Tom Morton music? You have to come to day? Who oh man, that's a good one. I would want old Doc to say that I am a man that understands the value in being a man in trying to

find whatever that definition is for me. So, Steve, we heard about what happens when teammates don't see how to eye in soccer? What about in football? Oh yeah, teammates don't see how toy just because you you have com the competitiveness. I don't believe, you know, I really don't know about why guys may not or you know, pass the ball or something. But I think a lot of

it has to do with ego. Um. You know, a lot of times, whether it's a young player or older player, those players are are pretty significant for from wherever they're from. They've impacted so much that teams have said I want to draft this kid. I want to draft this guy. I want to bring this man from this other team that he's been successful and bring him into our locker room. That so his into our culture. So it can in

fact our our team too. Maybe it could rub off on some guys to be a lot more physical or attack the game with a lot more passion. So whatever that category is that that team is looking for, um, it happens. But then you also have people from a lot of different places, right, and I say the dumb meters because common sense is different for various folks, and how you were raised determines how you dissect and and

and look at things. So when you put a whole bunch of people, eighty guys from eighty different families and eighty different walks of life, you get a lot. You get eighty different conversations that don't always go peaches and cream and and so you just kind of gotta you have to work through it. And then you add the element of competition, compensation, um, the ability to be released or let go. That just heightens everything, and so um, you know, sometimes it lines get blurred, sometimes it gets

it gets pretty fickled. And then just people just get piste off because sometimes people just lose their jobs because the guy in front of them is better, or sometimes people believe that the guy in front of him is better because the coach believes he's better, but the player doesn't but doesn't buy in buy into that. So that that that's I think that's a lot of things at times that happened. In perspective, what is that perspective of

that person? What is that point of view of that individual, whether it's the guy that's beating the guy out or the guy that is getting beat out, how does he handle that? Doesn't always go well? Uh, I can imagine. Yeah, I mean losing your job to a guy that you believe is not better than you. But the fact of the matter is he maybe, but you haven't. You don't want to own that that that doesn't go well. You are a unique person. You are well worth it, you

are competent and most of all, your lovable. I'm Steve Smith Senior, I'm Gerald Little John and this is cut to It. Cut to It with Steve Smith Senior. That is Me is a production of Cut to It, LLC, Baltol Creative Media, The Black Effect and I Heart Radio. For more podcast from My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio, Apple Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to

your favorite shows. From Cut to It, Executive producer Steve eve Smith, singer co host Gerard little John, talent and booking manager Joe Fusci, Social media team Wesley Robinson and John Show from balto Creative Media, Cut Too It is produced by Brian Baltaschevic and Meredith Carter, with production assistance by Alex Lebrek, Production manager Sarah Pollock, Theme music by Alex Johnson, lyrics and vocals by Anthony Hamilton. You ain't heard about it, then we're about to let you know. It's all