Just before nine o'clock last night, the jury returned guilty verdicts against all three defendants.
It was absolute shambles to tell you the truth just actually really come of blood on Who's closing the day after the alleged at an Ashelle mud bank and it fits through a river.
Basically, I think most of the people are used to me, there are good people.
I think a really important question we need to ask is how many Indigenous prisoners in Australia are innocent.
This is Curtain, a podcast where we pull back the blinds to shine a light on the darkest parts of our justice system and ask who are the victims.
I'm Amy Maguire and I'm Martin Hodgson, a senior advocate for the Foreign Prisoner Support Service. And a warning. This series contains the names of deceased peoples and has distressing content that might upset some listeners.
My name is Ramus Santana. My name is Kevin Richardson.
My name is Yuseph Salam. I'm one of the Central Park five. In eighteen eighty nine, we were falsely arrested and convicted for crimes that we didn't commit.
We were kids at the time.
We spent presciushrees of our life in prison.
We were taken from our homes and we were put in prison for the next seven to thirteen years.
In our case, there were false confessions. The public never got a chance to see how these false confessions started. They only saw the ending.
With the problem my rights and interrogated behind closed doors. This is stuff that we want people to see. What actually takes place inside that room when they feed you details the pride of food and he doesn't have any sleep, the pride of water. They go through dramatic stress, being the prov of your necessity. When a person sits there for over twenty hours, I just wanted to go home. Basically, all you get at the end is just that nice package of a person saying that they committed a crime.
What was he doing with him?
We want you to see the whole process, from me begeinning to the end, from beginning to the end.
That was three members of the famous Central Park five. Like Kevin, they were convicted of murder twenty five years ago, and just like Kevin, the only evidence presented in court against them were false confessions. All were coerced using the same sort of police techniques that were very common at
the time but still persist to this day. Just like Kevin, there was no forensic evidence or DNA linking them to the crime, and yet despite this, they lost years of their life in prison at the time of their sentence. Now President Donald Trump called for their execution, But the Central Park Five are now free and they've proven their innocence and they've shown that the way their confessions were taken and forced out of them was very common at
the time. That's why now they want videos of confessions like theirs, taken from start to finish, not stopped and started, as was also the case with Kevin Henry. The Central Park Five are now successfully suing many of the people who were involved in their conviction for a crime they did not commit. Just like Kevin, they didn't have proper legal representation. They were also in no state to give any evidence to police. They should have had lawyers by
their side. They should have had time to speak with these lawyers and understand what was being put to them and what the police was saying, but no one took that time, and sadly, just like Kevin Henry, they found themselves in prison for a crime they knew they didn't commit and just like Kevin Henry, they always maintained their innocence. For the past year, we've been outlining the case of Kevin Henry or Curtin, and over this year we've raised
serious doubt about his gill. We're glad you've come on this journey with us and it become involved in investigating the case. Over the past few months, we've received a lot of feedback from those of you who are trying to figure out this case as well.
We have tried to answer a lot of those questions that there is always one enduring one. If Kevin didn't do it, who did. In this episode, we're going to be backtracking a little bit and we'll give you some information that you haven't received yet. It revolves around another witness, because Kevin wasn't the first person police tried to pin this crime on. But first I want to stop asking Martin. You've received a lot of feedback, particularly from people in
the legal fraternity. So what's been the common perception of this case.
I think a lot of people, particularly lawyers, in breaking down the case, quickly look at the legal technicalities of the case, the flaws and the lack of evidence, But also I think the common curiosity is if Kevin didn't do it, then who did?
And I think we've seen, particularly overseas, that when these sort of investigations are made public, people tend to go down their own lines of inquiry. Do you think do you think there are certain people that the public are sort of thinking are more likely to have done this crime.
I think, based on the information that's available to the public, perhaps some people might think that the women who committed the initial assault might be responsible for Linda's dance. But from what we know, including all the facts that are available at the time and now, that's probably not the case, particularly not the case that they were the ones who placed Linder's body in the river.
So it's I mean, we've said throughout this investigation that they were definitely the ones who committed the assault. We're not denying that that was an actual fact, and it came out in court, but it's just what happened to her body afterwards, and what Kevin got the harsher sentence for. That's what we're sort of saying that we have. No, we're not there's no indication that they were involved in any way.
Yeah, that's right. I think from the initial investigation, what came out at trial, and what we've learned now our own investigation that there's no doubt that they were not involved in the placing of the body in the river.
So we never said the three women who were convicted of Griev's bodily harm were the ones who placed Linder in the river. We obviously can't rule it out, but it does seem very unlikely.
But in this episode we're going to go through the other people. Police should have followed up and they didn't.
I also have to note that many of the people were discussing are now deceased. That's the other tragic part of this story. Too many Aboriginal people who have died before their time. All of the people we've mentioned in this story have histories of trauma, just like Linda, and just like Kevin Henry so Martin. There was no forensics at the scene, nothing really tying Kevin to the crime at all. I just wonder why did the police start pointing towards Kevin. When did they start to do this and why?
Well, at some point mister Henry believed or said he'd called an ambulance at some point in the evening, However, a check at the records showed that no ambulance was dispatched to Tanuba House, and that's most likely a call had never been made at all. Whether Kevin remembers this inaccurately, explained it this way due to the weight of pressure being exerted upon him in the interrogation, or made it up,
it really doesn't matter. No ambulance came and no ambulance was called, But it's what happens next that's most concerning.
So I guess I what happened after that? I mean, it seems to me, I mean, it isn't inaccurate information, but everyone was drunk at that time. There could have been quite an indis innocent explanation for it. So what happened after that? And and did police fail to follow any other avenues or so?
What happened is that one police ascertained that most likely no ambulance was called. They zeroed in on Kevin Henry very quickly. And here's what happened at trial. This is David Murray, Kevin's barrister. My client told you in a record of interview that we will no doubt here tomorrow that he rang the ambulance. Whereas you inquired and found out that he never did. This paints the picture? Does it? This means Henry is right for it? Does it? Responding in court his officer hunt, No, it does not.
Did if this was the only thing that sort of began the investigation and pointed more towards Kevin, did Kevin's representation at trial actually challenged that in any way when it went to court.
Yeah, So I think that the point mister Murray was making was that if all they had at this point was the fact that a call probably wasn't made to an ambulance, was this all they really had to investigate Kevin Henry? And why did they assume from this point that he was involved, particularly when there was potentially other suspects. And he'd go on to thrash out with the officers whether they'd investigated any of those other suspects.
Before we go into that sort of testament, can I ask you who were were there a number of police officers who gave evidence at the trial it was only or how many actually gave evidence and who were they?
So we have two officers who ran the investigation, while a number of officers gave evidence a trial only to speak to the actual investigation. The leading investigators were Senior Constable Robert Hunt and Plane closed Senior Constable leslie Girk. They ran the investigation from start to finish, and they were the two officers who gave testimony on the stand about the investigation itself.
Did they ever give an actual explanation as to why Kevin was the one primarily cornered for this or that was the only thing? The ambulance and they didn't. That was all they said in relation to it.
The ambulance was the main reason that they seemed to target in on Kevin early on. What we don't know is what was said by other people off the record, what the police believed of their own volition and never admitted to on the stand. But what we do know is that very early on, and I mean very early on, the police targeted Kevin and virtually no one else.
Now they didn't target anyone else. Was that fact brought force in trial, particularly by Kevin's representation. Did they bring up any other names?
Yes, so a number of other names were raised, particularly mister Murray Kevin's defense barrister. Again, this is mister Murray Kevin Henry's barrister at trial, across examining officer Robert Hunt. You tell us now, detective, why you didn't investigate duk Heart and question why he lied to you? Answer? Duckhart had already been questioned in regard to the matter. In regards to the statement, question, did you go back and question why he lied to you? Answer? No, I did not.
Why not because it had been clarified in other statements that he was not present there? Question can you tell us which statements it's clarified that he wasn't present? Answer? I cannot recall. I'd have to recall back to them. Question perhaps we will still be going tomorrow, you can do it tonight. Answer all right. Then mister Murray raised another potential suspect, the question do you know Willy West? Answer? No, I do not. Question, well, Willy West is mentioned in
some of the material. Didn't you want to equate yourself with a name that was mentioned in the material that there was no statement? Front Hunt answers does he go by any other name? Murray continues, I'm asking you. You're the detective, I'm the barrister and answers, no, I'm not familiar with that name Willy West. Now, at this point, mister Murray also raises some other names. They may not be suspects, but they are names we do know that
would have been known to the investigating officers. Mister Murray asks what about Clinton Hill? The answer, I'm not familiar with that name either. What about Brian Tawley, I'm not familiar with that name? What about a white fellow also a confident of Tully's, named Roy, who is recently deceased. Do you know him at all? I'm not sure who you are referring to know.
So did the police make any effort to find out who these people were? And why didn't they know? And also what were their explanations for not following up for.
The any Well, they didn't really seem to have an explanation. They should have known because these names were raised in statements by the people present at Tanuba House that night, so the information was known to police. The information was in the statements. I think one of the reasons they say they're not familiar with the names is they simply
never followed it up. And this goes to a point that as soon as they looked at Kevin for the crime, they zeroed in on Kevin, and Kevin alone and that's problematic in any investigation by not keeping an open mind, by not being open to the possibility that anyone else and we know that at least thirty people were there that night, plus others who could have come and gone were potentially responsible, means that anyone who actually did the crime was missed from the start.
Now, these there weren't only people who were known that to Nuba were there. We've already discussed several times on this program about the other camp which seemed to be predominantly white fellows who'd come down to Tanuba House. Did that come up in trial? And did the police show any indication that they knew about this other camp of people.
Yeah, that information certainly did come up, but it doesn't appear like any investigation was done into who these people were and what happened. Again, I'll go back to the transcript. It's mister Murray Cross examining Senior Constable Robert Hunt. Did you gain information that some white fellows and perhaps some Aboriginal fellows in company with them, used to frequent Tanuba House for purposes of violence and attempting intercourse with the
Aboriginal women. The answer, yes, we had. Did you investigate to find those men. Yes, I think we did. Murray, you think we did? I have to ask you again, you are the detective. The answer, yes, we did. Where did you look? We tried to ascertain the names and identities of these people through the statements that were provided to us. As such, no further information could be given to us. As such, we could not continue with the investigation. We had nothing to go by. Has it puzzled you
that during this trial this court has founded these names out? Answer? No, it does not. Again, mister Murray, very well, during the course of your investigation, did you find out the names of any persons who at any time had frequented ten Uber House, stirring up or causing trouble with the occupants there? Hunt, No, I did not. Can you tell us the extent of your inquiries in that respect? Is that to your initial inquiry to which you made or to your question? Now,
Hunt replies, I'm talking about the same subject. We did not make any further inquiries in relation to that. Murray, then, presses, can you tell us the inquiries you did make? As I said before, it had come out in a number of the statements.
So what do we take from that? It seems that Hunt has just admitted that they weren't actually actively investigating, actually going out and finding out more about suspects. They were just looking through the statements they had already taken.
Yeah, I think that's particularly troubling. I think when anyone thinks about police work, particularly something as serious as a murder, that police would be boots on the ground looking for information, speaking to people, knocking on doors and trying to find out who these other people were. Now they say that the names came up in the statements and plenty given't and that they just couldn't ascertain who these people were.
But we know from these statements that they were told exactly who a number of these people were and it was just never followed up on. Understand Hunt was also asked about other people, Loretta Brown and could not recall if he interviewed her, nor a Bernie Ross. But he had taken these statements.
The timeframe of them pointing at Kevin. Did he mention the ambulance in his original statement, and that's where they got it from. So they've only got one inconsistency from one early star, is that how it worked in relation.
To the time for it comes from the first statement that Kevin gave, and we have to remember that he was clearly intoxicated at this time. We've heard from his cousin, Doug Graham, who saw a video of Kevin at this point and could tell he was intoxicated. Kevin made the claim about the ambulance, and whether he did that because he was just trying to please the officers and get out of the interview under massive stress, we don't know. But that was the point where they've decided Kevin was
right for it. As mister Murray put to Senior Constable.
Hunt, so before they picked him up that day and interviewed him, so over that course of that to our interview, they hadn't singled him out particularly. It was only because of that interview and him talking about the ambulance that they began to zone in on him. Or were there other people beforehand, or how did that work out? It was just when they picked him up and began talking to him at this point.
In no way at all was Kevin Henry considered a suspect for the crime. His name hadn't come up because he wasn't involved at all in the assault on Winder and he wasn't considered a key person at the scene. It wasn't until that interview where the officers decided he was the person they were going to go after.
So I guess we can take from that given that it was only after that interview that they really singled in on Kevin, that there might have been other black falls they were chasing a relation to this crime beforehand.
Yeah, so we know that a number of other people were accused of the crime, and they include Frank and Wayne Saunters. Wayne's Saunders gave testimony on the stand, which was that he and his brother Frank were told by the police they'd done it. Now, there is absolutely no evidence that Frank and Wayne Saunders were at all involved, and we don't believe for a minute that the police thought they were either. They were simply trying to scare them.
Wayne Saunders gave up to five statements to police, and we've discussed that previously. He was the one who police kept harassing for a statement all the way up to the prison that he was in in November, some months after the crime had occurred.
So what did they say, why they had begun harassing him or looking into him, or what came out in court.
There was absolutely no explanation as to why the police accused him, his brother, or some of the other people who were at an uber house. It appears that were just throwing accusations, either hoping some mud would stick or that someone would buckle and give information that it seems fairly clear the people being interviewed just didn't have.
What was my interusments to this or did people or people around ten Uba seem to know what was happening, because I can imagine it would have been quite a fearful time for a lot of people if the police are coming in and accusing a whole heap of people at the time.
Yeah, so we know there was a great deal of fear amongst the people down at tan Uba. They'd obviously witnessed something horrific. We know that some of the people there had been involved in the assault. They didn't have any information they could provide to police that was useful, and this is where we get to many of the statements that were simply inaccurate, made up, or just trying to please the police to get out of the interviews they were giving. But with this information being so unclear,
the police should have been investigating further. They couldn't simply continue to drag Aboriginal people up to the police station, accuse them of murder and hope that information would come from it.
Tanuba was largely frequented by mostly Aboriginal people, but there were white people who were down there occasionally. And we've talked a bit about the other camps that were along the riverbank. So was it only blackfellows who were targeted? And did that ever come up in the trial that they could have been they should have maybe been looking for someone outside of the Tanuba community.
Yeah, that came up again in the cross examination of Senior Constable Hunt, and it was known to everyone. And it's important to point this out that anyone who knew this area of Rockhampton knew about the multiple camps along the river and that it wasn't only Aboriginal people. This is what mister Murray, Kevin Henry's barrister asked Senior Comfortable Hunt on the stand. A number of white people have been down there trying to stir up trouble cause some
either assault the aboriginals down there, Hunt interrupts. We tried to take that further, but we could not find any identity or any names as to who we could go further with the investigation on that matter. The next question, did you ascertain it all if there was another camp at all further down the river, down past the Cruising Knot Club Answer, I did not realize that. Now. There's
two problems with these answers that have been given. A Hunt did know the names of some of those people who'd been coming down, because they were in the statements that had been given to him, and they were people who were frequently known to police. The other issue is that there is no doubt, an abstractous credulity to believe that Hunt was not aware of another camp nearby at the Cruising Yacht Club. He was an officer in Rockhampton who frequently visited this area and these camps were often
where people were picked up by police. For him to suggest he didn't know this camp existed at all and that was the reason he didn't investigate the white people who'd been at that camp and who were known to cause trouble at Tonouba when they visited there. It's just not believable, and just for.
Our audiences and people had never been to Rockhampton, the Cruising your club is literally just right next to Tanuba House, so not very far away, probably about fifty meters away. So if you were going to do but surely you would have seen the evidence of another camp somewhere around there, wouldn't you.
Yeah, well that's right. And I mean the next day when these officers were at Tanuba looking at the crime scene, not only was their people still at Tanuba House, the other camp was full of people, whether they were suspects, whether they were witnesses, the fact that they'd continued to harass Aboriginal people prior to that night. Those people were right there, and Hunt or any of his colleagues could have interviewed them on that day or in the days following, they simply chose not to.
And we've talked previously about how after Kevin was charged that their investigation was completely dropped, and that's something that they do admit to. But did they say anything or does Hunt admit anything about what happened leading up to Kevin being charged and whether they were investigating. Does he admit anything in relation to that, because afterwards they pretty much admit that it was dropped completely, But before then, do they admit anything.
We have to remember that on the same day that Kevin was charged, the fifth of September, the three women who were involved in the assault on Linda were charged with her murder and admits that this was done on the fifth, Kevin following the women. However, there's a crucial point we need to know about that day, which is that at the time the three women and Kevin were charged, the police did not know the cause of death. That means the forensic doctor had not yet provided his report
as to how Linda had passed away. And yet we have four people charged with murder in two different circumstances, and that once Kevin was charged despite no cause of death having yet been established, the investigation essentially stopped.
So, Madam, we've been talking about how Kevin was zoned in on even though there was very little evidence to go on. But in relation to the other names that have come up in which the police didn't investigate further, were there other signs that were sort of more likely that they had been involved in the crime rather than Kevin that came up in trial.
Yeah, absolutely, there was plenty of other people where there was far more information about them, was more inconsistencies in their statement and there was more information as to whether they could have been involved at or now I should say at this point the names we're going to mention, we're not suggesting these people are responsible for the crime. What we are suggesting, however, is the police should have investigated these people further, even if it was just to
rule them out. That they didn't. Despite there being no cause of death when Kevin was charged, these people were not looked into any further and there are clearly reasons that you'll hear why they should have been.
So how did that come out in the trial?
Now?
In episode two, we began talking about a duck Heart, and there's a lot of information that you would have heard so far about him at this stage, whether he was involved or not, it was clear to anyone with half an investigative eye that he was someone who should have been followed up on. And this is what mister Murray asked Plaine Clothes Senior Constable Leslie Girk on the stand. Were you aware that both Lyle Barnes and Wayne Saunders stated that Duckhart was not at the Great Western but
was actually down at Tanuba. They didn't actually say he wasn't at the Great Western. They said he was down at Tanuba in the afternoon. Kirk's response, I'm aware that Lyle said that in his statement, but I don't recall Wayne Murray. You see, did it occur to you that perhaps Duckhart was telling you a lie? Answer? No, I had no cause to believe that, even though there was someone contradicting him. Answer yes, Lyle Barnes, you considered to be a fairly reliable witness, didn't you.
Yes, So they pretty much accepted Duckhart's statement and what he said.
Yeah, that's right, And at this point they'd also accepted all of Lyle Barnes's statement, but when it comes to duck Heart, they don't seem to accept what was being said by other individuals. Again, I'll go back to Murray. Did you accept that part of Lile Barnes's statement as being accurate? The answer from Gurk I did did you accept the part of his statement saying that Duckhart was at ten Uber House as being accurate? This is Girk's response.
I asked duck about it when that was brought to my attention or when I read it, and he said no, he was definitely at the Great Western. So that was good enough. Answer yes again, mister Murray, mister Hart has been caught in the active intercourse in the lame way by his girlfriend. Come to facto, he's whereaboutser in question, when something happens to winda at a place you believed to be down at t Nuba House, Duckhart's whereabouts can't
be accounted for? That didn't raise your suspicions? Answer No, Well, I had no doubt as to where Duck was.
So basically the police accepted Duck's arabi without even going to investigate it further. I mean, I'm just thinking it wouldn't have been hard to just ask a few questions, particularly from the Great Western. Did they even do that?
No, And that comes up at the trial in the transcripts. Now, you would think that they would go down there and ask if Duck was there, what time he was there, especially if they had two statements saying that Duck was not at the Great Western, he was at Tanuba. And this is mister Murray asking about that. Could you verify it from the Great Western? Answer? Could I question? Yeah? Answer by Girk. I guess if you'd ask them you could verify it. Did you you're the investigator? Answer no, I didn't.
So that's a pretty big concession from one of the police officers investigating that they didn't follow up a really crucial lead and a potential alibi. They didn't even bother to try and confirm anything. They just took Duckhart on his word.
Yeah, and I think we have a list of names now. Surely the police, even if they were believing duck Hart and not believing those who said he was ton Uba, there was a very easy way to clarify this, which is what mister Murray asked. Why didn't you simply go down to the Great Western and ask them? And Girk
says that plainly he just didn't do it. Now, this would have allowed them to either continue to investigate dark Heart if there were issues as to his alibi, or cross his name off the list and start to look at other people, but they chose simply not to do it.
Now, let me talk about dark I mean, I've just been asking around and he seemed to be they all accounts, a lovely old man. I mean, I've heard him referred to as an old gentleman. Everyone really thinks warmly of him. But I guess why have we included him in this podcast, and why do you think his name keeps coming up even though he obviously had had a really good reputation around the place.
I think there's some.
Crucial factors, and we're not suggesting in any way that Duckhart was involved in the death of Linda, but his is the most clear example of police being given information that they simply didn't follow up on. We do know that mister Hart had intercourse with Linda that day. We also know he was seen by multiple witnesses at Tanuba, and this means that his alleged alibi at the Great Western was not accurate, and yet police made.
No efforts to confirm that.
We also know that Duckhart was the person who found Winder's clothing the next morning, and he's also the person that found the supposed drag marks that led to the water. But even these drag marks were contentious. Hunt was asked, was there a trap as such or merely grass pushed over his answer, it's hard to say. It wasn't a definite track. Now you have to remember there was no
forensic evidence, no DNA, no eye witnesses. That these tracks, according to police, was proof positive that this is where Kevin dragged winds through this area on the way to the river, and we've just heard from Officer Hunt that it was hard to say that it wasn't even a definite track. So the reason we raise mister Hart is perhaps he was assisting police, but the information he gave was either largely inaccurate or the forensic information he led police to was not followed up on. And what was
investigated in no way led to Kevin Henry. And there were plenty other people whose names were raised, and these people were not investigated either.
So who were the names and did they come up in court? And were they put to the detectives.
Yes, so these names were in statements given by people who were there at Tanubah that night as to people who were perhaps involved, were perhaps just at Tanuba House or were names of interest? And mister Murray asked the officer Gurk on the stand about a number of these people. Mister Murray, did you interview a person called Willy West? Answer? Willie West, Yeah, a fellow from Cherberg Cherberg who was drinking with duck Hart that afternoon in the Crown Hotel.
Answer interview him. It's possible someone else did. Question from Murray possible. No one did. That's also possible. Did you interview a person called Snowy? I didn't. Has he got a name? Mister Murray, you're the investigator here. Did you read a statement taken by Roger Lowe given by Susan Aubrey. Yes?
I did.
In that statement it refers to a white fellow named Snowy that was down at the Crown having an argument with Linda about land rights. Answer, yes, did you try and find this fellow named Snowy?
No?
You are aware that Susan Aubrey talks about eight whitefellows, about eight white fellows coming down to Tanuba on the Friday night. The answer, I don't remember the amount eight, but I do remember some mention of white fellows. For the purpose of this recording, I'm going to exclude some of the offensive language that was used in the following questioning. Mister Murray continued. The white fellows were calling them black seas, saying they wanted to root a gin in quotation marks
because we were easy, that sort of stuff. Do you remember that? Girk responded, I remember her saying something about white fellows going down. But those words, Murray, they don't ring a bell. Answer. I know the statement contains something I don't know.
If she.
Murray again the white fellows calling us black seas saying they wanted to root a gin because we were easy and we were blacks. Does that ring a bell at all? It does about them coming, is the answer? Now Here was the chance for Gurk and Hunt to investigate these white men from further up the river. Hunt says they got no names. But here we know that Girk was clearly given a name, Snowy, but this was not followed
up on. This is despite the men from this other camp very close as Amy has described to Tanuba House saying appalling things about Aboriginal people and wanting to rape Aboriginal women, and these things were said the very night before Linda was murdered. That these people were not investigated in any way, and Murray would continue to flash this out in court. This is what he says about some of them, those statements that were made by those men.
That's fairly strong material, isn't it? Those words? In what way? Questions Gurk said in relation to intruders to Tanuba House. Fairly violent strong stuff, isn't it? Girk? I wouldn't say violent, did you think it bought investigation to try and turn these white fellows up. Answer, It's pretty hard to investigate when you haven't got any names or descriptions. Did you
think it bore investigation? Yes? Did you investigate it? Well, we couldn't, Murray, Officer, Every crime that is committed where the person is not caught red handed, the police start with a blank, don't you answer? That's right? Not necessarily a blank. There is always whenever a crime is committed, there is something there, Murray. Did you go to all of the other occupants at t Muba House on Friday the thirtieth of August and asked them?
No?
Why not? A lot of them? A few of them mentioned in their statements, but they weren't able to say who they were. Which ones did you ask? Answer? Which ones?
Did I ask? Yes?
No, I didn't say I asked anyone I said in their statements. Mister Murray continues, Did it occur to you that perhaps Linda was left lying on the ground at Root Valley, that somebody else came there who had been there a couple of nights before. Never occurred to you, No, never occurred to you that duck Hart might have come back from the Great Western Hotel. Definitely not never occurred to you that anybody else could have been involved except
Kevin Henry. That's right. Nothing was that after the fifth of September you decided that or before? Answer well, when I interviewed him, when you interviewed him, hadn't you already charged Susan Aubrey with murder? The three of them were charged with murder. They were before Kevin was interviewed. Answer yes, earlier that day.
So what you said there it shows that the police really didn't fill out very crucial leads. But the bits about not falling up, particularly from the white camp, and them not bothering to go in because they apparently didn't have any names or descriptions, I mean, it says to me that Aboriginal women were very accustomed to not feeling protected by the people who were supposed to protect them on the riverbank.
I think that's born out, particularly in their statements given by the Aboriginal women we know who didn't have anything to do with the crime whatsoever. They were either witnesses or who'd been made aware of what had gone on, and yet it's very clear from their statements that they didn't feel like they were assisting police, they felt clearly under threat and that they were being pressured to say
things they either couldn't remember or didn't know. We know that multiple numbers of these Aboriginal women retracted their statements on the stand under cross examination. We know that a number were intoxicated when they gave their statements, and although police claimed they weren't intoxicated, these women admitted that they were when they gave the statements, but no concern was
given to that. No concern was given to when they were picked up to make their statements, anything they had to say, and nothing they said was ever followed up on. And if this is the way they treat innocent Aboriginal women who were simply around at the time, some not even there that night, it tends to show how the police viewed Linda the victim. They simply had no regard for Aboriginal women, because if they did, surely their intention would have been to do justice for her, which means
one thing, finding the real perpetrator. But they made no effort to do that, and in their investigation they clearly disregard the statements of all the Aboriginal women.
That was episode twelve of kurtin the podcast. Today is Survival Day, or as some wrongly call it, Australia Day. For those who celebrate it as Australia Day, that's a celebration of invasion and one of the consequences of invasion is mass incarceration. Next week, we reveal further truths about this case that's wrongly led to the incarceration of Kevin Henry.