Just before nine o'clock last night, the jury returned guilty verdicts against all three defendants.
It was absolute shambles, to tell you the truth, just absolutely really helous.
Blood on his clothing a day after the alleged at top on.
A shallow mud bank and its bit through river. Basically, I think most of the people are used to me are good people. I think a really important question we need to ask is how many Indigenous prisoners in Australia are innocent.
This is Curtain, a podcast where we pull back the blinds to shine a light on the darkest parts of our justice system and ask who are the victims. I'm Amy Maguire and.
I'm Martin Hodgson, a senior advocate for the Foreign Prisoner Support Service. And a warning. This series contains the names of deceased peoples and has distressing content that might upset some listeners.
Welcome to Curtin the podcast. This year, in June, a young woman named your deitxs and was murdered in a park in central Melbourne. The Victorian police responded by warning women to have situational awareness walking by themselves at Nightsy's death and the police response prompted a large outpour of anger from many women all across the country who claimed saw themselves the DC. It led to a creation about the violent behavior of men and the responsibility men now e'r.
DC's death was on the front pages of newspapers all across the country. The immediate reaction and outpouring of grief and anger led in some way to justice and also led to very important conversations. But of course we never get the same outpouring of grief and anger for the numbers of Aboriginal women who die and whose name remain unknown.
In fact, within the same month as you were DC Dixon's death, an inquest handed down to into the death of an Aboriginal woman in the Northern Territory who, for cultural reasons, we know as Cowmen J Green Coomen Dre. Green's name is not known barely outside of the Northern Territory, but that doesn't mean that she wasn't worthy, and that
doesn't mean that we shouldn't be talking about her. The Northern Territory Coroner found that the Northern Territory Police had watched the investigation but did not call it for what it was, institutional racism. But in society that continually marks Aboriginal women as disposable, and their deaths do not end up being worthy of grief, as we've seen in the
differences in the Way You're a DC. Dixon's death was reported to that of Coomen J. Green, And we also know that women Dre Green wasn't the only Aboriginal woman to die in similar circumstances, and she wasn't the only Aboriginal woman whose death didn't make the front pages of newspapers all across the country. So martin a little bit about J. Greens? Do she was and why that the coroner has handed down the recent findings?
Yea, So to begin, miss Green dot on the twenty first of November twenty thirteen, and just like to see, she was close to home, but not quite there. She was in a vacant block of land when she was found the following day. The deaths are similar in that both women were found with clear evidence of foul play and police were notified immediately. But this is where things
change very differently. Whereas Eurydicty Dixon's case was classified a major crime immediately, it took three years, eleven months, and twenty seven days for Miss Green's death to be classified in the same way and no one would be charged. What's shocking about that is that, whereas the individual believed and alleged to be responsible for Eurydicy Dixon's death fled the scene, lying next to the deceased Miss Green was
a man. Miss Green had suffered a stab wound and as the pathologists reported, had likely bled out within about five minutes, causing her death. Something that's important to note is that the police had seen Miss Green earlier that night. It wasn't to do with anything she'd done wrong. They were dropping off a relative to a place where she had been saying. But as is a problem in the Northern Territory and right around Australia for Aboriginal women and children,
housing was very difficult to come by. A lack of housing and a lack of provision meant that that night Miss Green didn't have a place to go. She was in fact going to be sleeping outside that night when it was discovered she was deceased. The following morning, the man lying with her and another individual contacted TRIPLO and this was stated also to the TRIPLEO operator that she'd been stabbed. Now immediately that should spark direct action from
the police. This is the most serious of crimes. A person is believed to be deceased and it's believed, according to the people who are there at the scene, that the person has been stabbed. Police didn't treat it in this way at all. There was a casual cleaning of the crime scene. A person was taken in Tustiny, but
they were released relatively bread afterwards. And that despite the fact that the police have the power to hold a suspect until they conclude the initial part of the air investigation so that the crime scene in this case couldn't be tampered with, the police never secured the crime scene.
And despite the fact that miss Green died from a very serious stab wound that was fifty five millimeters deep into her thigh, cutting the femoral artery, it was decided by the police they couldn't determine if there was foul
play or not. This is one of the most absurd and yet obvious things you will ever hurt hear someone doesn't simply stab themselves in the leg in this manner and die, And the way the police would operate from here on would show the vast difference in the way Aboriginal women are true read.
One of the things that the coroner made a point of is that there was literally no excuse for the long delay and investigations. So with Komen Jay Green's case, it was four years before the coroner able to investigate. He also raised two other cases, a well known case of the boy from Boro Lula who had many similarities to the barrel case in New off Wales, and that boy died and the community knew that he had been killed and the police refused to believe it was a homicide.
And these really crucial gaps in the investigation, driven by the police's credible shit displays of racism, led to no one being prosecuted. And the coroner also mentioned the death of another Aberige Normoman where there was a significant delay
in the proceedings. What does that say about the fact that this case took four years and still no one has been prosecuted in relation to the death of Coomen j. Greener's shown territory, and what does it say about the way Aboriginal victims and in particular Aboriginal women are treated and viewed by the police.
I think the common thing we see across all the cases that the coroner mentioned, and that you raised, and that we see in every Satan territory in Australia is the way these crimes are handled from the outset. As we said immediately with the most recent death in Victoria of Eurydicy Dixon, it was a major crime and classified
as such immediately. That didn't take place, as I said, for nearly four years, and that only happened because the coroner repeatedly requested information and update and the case file from the police. They asked four or five times through that period of time and never received one. So it's quite possible that had the coroner never continued to ask for these case files of Miss Green and also these as you mentioned, none of them would have ever been
considered ajor crime or investigated. The other thing we know is that, just as in Linda's case, in Miss Green's case too, not only was the crime scene not secured, but evidence was lost, evidence was misplaced, the chain of custody was broken, the interview processes were not done correctly. What we see from the police, despite their absurdatements in the Eurrodicy Dixon case, was that they made an arrest and conducted a thorough investigation immediately that did not happen
in any of these cases, including Miss Greens. And what the coroner was quite critical of the police about was the police had basically convinced themselves that this was a self inflicted wound, so essentially suicide. And this is despite there being this knife wound fifty five millimeters deep and eighteen millimeters long in the left Miss Green. She also had bruising on her temple and elbow marks on her left hand. The knife itself was located and was a
possible match for the wound that was inflicted. The person had who was lying next to Miss Green had been arrested and taken into custody by the police, and yet despite all this, that individual was never held and the police actually drove this man home. Can you imagine the outrage if the man who is alleged to have killed Eurydicey Dixon was not only not charged, but had been found lying next to Eurydicsy Dixon and was driven home
by the police. I don't think we need to rationalize for long the increased level of outrage there already would be the other fact that he is deeply concerning and this happened has happened in Linda's case, all of these others, and now with miss Green's too, is that two officers from him were sent to investigate. One was a detective, the other was a senior constable. He was on his
first day on the job with major crimes. How seriously, with the Northern Territory Police taking this death of an Aboriginal woman, if they send someone on the first day on the job, they did not care. Despite all the evidence mounting up, despite the prime suspect lying next to the victim, you don't get an easier case than this, They still decided that it was a self inflicted wound.
They lost vital evidence. You have to wonder if the evidence was lost or if it was really destroyed, because after six months, the coroner was placing pressure on the police for a file. Now, you would expect that a coroner, being such a senior person in the criminal justice process, that police handling the case of an Aboriginal woman potentially who'd been murdered, would response to that coroner's request. They
ignored the coroner for more than three years. They didn't listen to the community, they didn't listen to witness statements, and after just a few days, these two police officers from the Major Crime Squad, one of whom was on their first day, drove back to Darwin, didn't carry out any more investigation, didn't look at any more of the evidence,
simply packed up and went home again. You have to ask how much outrage would there be if this was a non Indigenous woman and the police essentially said we don't care.
Yeah. I think you rade a lot of very good points about the lack of care for women Jay Green and the fact that we would never see that level of outreach around the death of an Aboriginal woman, And I think it all comes back to I think what originally sparked so much concern across social media, and which really led to the case being placed at the top of newsportans, was that so many women, so many women
seeing this could have been me. You know, I could have been walking through a dark park at night, which is my right, and this could have happened to me. This could have been me. And I guess the thing I take away from it is that sometimes outrageous even though you know what happened to DC was incredibly outraging and horrific and tragic. And I think the morning of
her death. I think that also shows the lack of sympathy for people who aren't like the majority can really empathize with that because they don't really understand would be like to be a national woman in that situation. So it relis back to activism being solely around whether it would affect ourselves, and I think that's a real problem
shows just how race impacts this. You know, all women experience violence of gailure, but average experience a very specific form of violence, and then there's a separate violence and acted upon us after death, as we've seen in corn j Green with the incredible disrespect and disregard shown towards so by the police and the justice system in the Northern Territory and also the public because the apathy, I think is another form of violence, because it means that
the next Aboriginal woman who may die, you know, will be met with similar apathy, which is the really sad thing. I think. I think it's just you know, that line this could have been me is actually really problematic. That stops us from actually caring about women who are not like us or not like the dominant group. I think.
I think it's an important point you raise, and as a country we have to come to terms with the deaths of women like Miss Green and Linda and the hundreds and hundreds of others. We know that Aboriginal women are far more likely to be murdered than any other group in our society, and yet despite this, it barely raises a mention. But here's something that should be scary to everyone, and it's why Aboriginal women, I think, are so rightly outraged at the moment and always have been.
Missus Green's death likely a murder, is not considered in the crime statistics or recorded anywhere as a murder. Neither are the vasked bulk of deaths of Aboriginal women who die from acts of violence. That means that despite the figures we know that show that Aboriginal women are many, many,
many times more likely to die from violence. In fact, it's the leading cause of death for young Aboriginal women, the problem is without doubt far larger than what the statistics reflect, and that is because the police continue to
bungle these cases. The police also as well as those correctional officers who murder Indigenous women like Miss Marr who died in New South Wales, are also a violent threat to Aboriginal women, and just like Miss Green, miss Marr's death is not considered a murder, and it too does not go into the statistics. So already we have Aboriginal women most likely to be murdered, their leading cause of death most likely to be murder, and yet those figures
are clearly drasticly higher than what are reported. If people can't be outraged by this, I don't know what they can be outraged by. If people can't understand the frustration, the anger, and the grief of Aboriginal women as to why this issue is not taken seriously when not only are their debts not reported on, they're never invetigated. You can be murdered near your home, as Miss Green was, and the police do absolutely nothing to bring justice despite
the alleged perpetrator eyeing next to your body. What greater humiliation could there be? People talk about closing the gap, How can you close a gap for people who are murdered without consequence? If we don't start here, we may
as well not start at all. I think it's time for everyone who is rightly outreached about violence against women to not focus purely on the cases that happen in their neighborhood, but happen in places away where your eyes can't see, but where the deaths are more frequent and very rarely, if ever, prosecuted and Martin.
There's also been another issue in the Northern Territory making news this week, and it revolves around the don Dale Detention Center, the same detention center which was at the center of Four Corners investigation a couple of years ago that sparked the Royal Commission which we saw the real horrendous display of torture inflicted against Aboriginal children on TV.
We saw Dylan Balla who was strapped into a Guantanamo Bay style restraint in a chair with a spithood put onto over his head, and it sparks the Royal Commission, and that Royal Commission has since been here down, but it just emerged in the Northern Territory. Senate estimates that one hundred percent of the population in don Dale is Aboriginal. So every child who is currently incarcerated in don Dale Detention Center in the Northern Territory is Aboriginal. Martin, What
do you make of that? Does that shock you?
It honestly doesn't shock me. I think probably more shocking or just as shocking, is that we've had a Royal Commission into this issue and yet figure remains the same. It's actually high and now being one hundred percent, It's hovered between basically ninety nine and one hundred percent for a period of time. The shocking thing is that when we look at other Royal commit've been going on right now, to do with the Banking Royal Commission, we've seen CEOs
of major companies either resign or facing charges. The Royal Commission into the Abuse of Children sexual abuse by Religious organizations has seen the most senior figure in the Catholic Church in Australia be charged and already a number jailed and sentenced from the Catholic Church and other religious organizations. And yet out of the Royal Commission in the Northern Territory we see that not only is the problem as
bad as it always was, it is possibly worse. And I don't want to keep talking about just the Northern Territory. I think we need to point out too that in Western Australia it is seventy three percent of all children. In Queensland it's seventy one percent of all children. It's fifty eight percent in South Australia and fifty three percent in New South Wales despite being less than two of
the population. And what we know about these children, hundreds and hundreds of children around Australia in juvenile detention, but particularly back to the Northern Territory, is that many of them were removed from their families to be placed into protection, out of home care. When were these now teenagers removed. They were removed during the Northern Territory Intervention when they were young children, some as young as babies. This intervention
was supposed to protect women and children. It was an intervention that saw the army rolled out onto the land of the Northern Territory into Aboriginal communities. The children who everyone was jumping up down to protect, children who should be protected, are now in one of the worst prisoncilities in Australia. You have seen with your own eyes Guantanamo style abuse and torture, and yet we've had a Royal commission and nothing has been done. An Indigenous deaths in
custody continue to climb. The Northern Territory is in the top four, but by no means leads the way. New South Wales is responsible for more deaths in custody than any other state, with Western Australia and Queensland following close behind. You're starting with young children who are supposedly being rescued by the state. It was a political stunt by the Howard government, with the media influencing and cheering along the way.
Those children who should have been protected have ended up in Dondale Detention Center where they now make up one hundred percent of all detainees. And meanwhile, women that were supposed to be protected are still dying like Miss Green and are not getting justice, despite the crime scene revealing all of the evidence, the alleged pur better being present, and the murder weapon being found. What is the point of these continual royal commissions if they continue to fail
Aboriginal people. We don't need an intervention. We definitely don't need another Royal commission. What we need is the same level of care that is shown for others, the same level of outrage that is shown for others, the same demands of action, scolding of police and justices who don't do their job and fail women and children to occur for Aboriginal women and children because they die at far higher rates than anyone else in this country and it's about time they got justice.
So madam, what really saddens me listening to you and going over the details of these cases in the Northern Territory but all across Australia, is that you know, coomen Ja Green's death had so many similarities to Linda's death. And when we talk about the problem with the overincarceration of Aboriginal children and juvenile detention, Kevin Henry was actually
in juvenile detention as a young toy. So to me, it says, you know, this case of Kevin Henry and Linda case that we have been profiling and investigating over the past two years happened in only one But these issues are not just still happening, they're getting worse.
They are getting worse. And what we're seeing is the rate in which Indigenous children are imprisoned and incarcerated like Kevin was all those decades ago, has increased. The number of deaths and murders of Aboriginal women like Linda and now miss Green continues to go up. Neither of these debts, decades apart, have ever been solved. There's no justice for the families of the victims, and Kevin Henry, like Derek Bromley,
another Aboriginal man, remains in prison an innocent man. Here you have men, women and children, Aboriginal men, when children all being failed by the criminal justice system. This is why Aboriginal people don't call police. Why would you when they lock your children up, allow women to be killed with no justice, and beat men into submission until the wrong ones are sent to prison. This is a failing
at all levels. And I want people to think about the trauma that then goes on to infect and be inflicted upon the communities where this takes place, and it's
all over Australia. Think about the levels of mental illness that must be suffered, the post traumatic stress being or witnessing your loved one killed and never getting justice, Being a young child removed from your family and then be placed somewhere as horrific as Dondale, being in prison for more than thirty years for a crime you didn't commit, and not only does no one come to help, no one seems to care when the rest of society is rightly raising the issues of violence against women, the way
children are treated and misremarkable search for young William Tyrell that is being conducted by a fantastic police officer, Gary Jublin. What we're asking is that Aboriginal children get the same, that Aboriginal women get the same, and that people like Kevin get justice. Can't lock people up for crimes they didn't commit. It is particularly galling when in the case of Miss Green and so many other cases, the evans is all there, but so too do the underlying failings exist.
Just like for Linda, Miss Green didn't have a fixed place of address, She had nowhere to sleep, nowhere safe to go. Imagine the increased risk that places someone. Miss Green had already experienced domestic violence in her life, and despite that, police didn't consider that an issue when investigating her tragic murder. Police didn't investigate what links that might
have to the past. No one in this whole process, including in the coroner's court, has ever asked a question about the undisourcing and housing for ab women and true children, not just in the Northern Territory but all over Australia.
If you don't house people, if you don't give them the medical care they need and the very basics of life, what does society expect but to see more deaths take place, to then know they occur and look the other way is the ultimate insult and humiliation to these women and children, and it can't be left to stand