Cold Justice

Just before nine o'clock last night, the jury returned guilty verdicts against all three defendants.

It was absolute shambles, to tell you the truth, just absolutely really paman.

Blood on his clothing the day after the alleged a top.

On a shallow mud bank and it fits.

Through a river.

Basically, I think most of the people are used to me are good people.

I think a really important question we need to ask is how many Indigenous prisoners in Australia are innocent.

This is Curtain, a podcast where we pulled back the blinds to shine a light on the darkest parts of our justice system and ask who are the victims. I'm Amy Maguire and.

I'm Martin Hodgson, a senior advocate for the Foreign Prisoner Support Service. And a warning. This series contains the names of deceased peoples and has distressing content that might upset some listeners.

In nineteen eighty eight, seventeen year old Aboriginal teenager Mark Haynes was found dead on train tracks in Tamil Worthy.

Do not believe me and went out there and laid down.

Rumors of corruption, racism and murder have swirled around the case.

Something happened that he got hurt.

The most basic police in word had not been done. He BuzzFeed News and NTV special investigation Cold Justice, starts Tuesday nine point thirty pm on NATV.

That was the voice of Aboriginal journalist Alan Clark. Welcome to this week's episode of Curtin the Podcast. This week, Amy and I sat down with Alan to speak to him about his three part documentary series called Cold Justice. It's about the death of an Aboriginal teenager in rural Australia, Mark Haines, and his family's battle for the truth. Mark died in nineteen eighty eight, just a few years before

So the inference is that you know, an Aboriginal boy is likely to do something like that.

Well, this is the way any Aboriginal person is treated, whether it's within the law or outside of the law. Is you know, we feel like we're we're third, if not fourth class citizens in our own land. From the OU said, this is right out a character from Mark, and no, we believe he's met with foul play. We do not believe he has went out there and laid down and of his own volition and was hit by the train by some misadventure.

It's impossible to talk about Mark's murder without talking about his uncle John Craigie, known to everyone as Duck.

He was killed all instantaneously.

Don is an unstoppable force when it comes to the case.

With my last breath, you know, I will still be looking to find out what has happened.

I truly believe if it wasn't for Don, Mark's case would have faded into the past and he would have become another statistic.

If anything any read percussions. As I said to my younger brothers, I said, I take full responsibility for it.

From the very beginning, he has doggedly been asking questions, lobbying politicians, and demanding answers from the local police. How did the police immediately kind of treat the family In the following months, afterwards.

You know when you get something stuck on the bottom of your shoe, Yeah, you know, and you try to scrape it off or whatever.

It's just like.

They just didn't want to have a bar of us. You know, We've got all we need, you know, as far as we're concerned. The cases closed, so words of that effect.

And at the inquest, how did they treat you badly?

Nothing happened. I kept going back to the police station. I kept running into the superintendent. He keep saying, well done. You never know what a seventeen year old boy would do. You never know what a seventeen year old Aboriginal boy would do. They just weren't interested in investigating the any further.

Oh, I was just worrying sort of a remember journalistic perspective, What was it about this story that made you just want to.

Keep following it?

Were you've been doing it for about four years?

What was it about this story specifically that really spoke to you.

Yeah, there were several things that I guess you could say dru In.

In the beginning. First of all, I had no.

Sort of preconceived idea of what the how did the story would go?

When I first assigned it.

I was actually working out living in black when it was under SPS, that's how long ago. And they sent me up there because it was the anniversary of Mark's death and the family were appealing to the partlet for an information.

So it was a very sort of routine story, I guess.

When I arrived in Hamworth and met Don Craigie, who is Mark's uncle, this is really amazing Gomorroy elder there, he immediately his his grief, his anger, all of these emotions, his heightened emotions sort of role is his one big ball and all stemmed from not being able to have the justices and listen to the family. That that immediately kind of really grabbed me, you know, not only as an as a journalist, but also as an aboriginal person as a quarry. And for me, Mark's family where exactly

I'm related to.

Don's wife's family through our connections out west here.

So there are many things, and I think.

The story itself as a journal was a good story. In one I really wanted to tell. But secondly, I also wanted to get justice of the family as an Aboriginal person myself, and you know, it's hard not to think of when you're covering story like that, Well, if that was me found on dead on train tracks like Mark, would my family have to go through all of this and endure all of this just to get some basic answers from the police. And that thought spurred me on, I guess for the last four years.

For regular listeners of Curtin obviously would know that Amy has a particular connection to rock Hampton, and we've just heard that Alan has a particular connection to this case as well. Alan, I'm just wondering, what was the first incident or piece of evidence or information that made you think the official version of events just don't stack up.

Well.

So the first time I went there, first of all, there was a family that was obviously breathing and morning Mark's death, and that immediately as a journalists you kind of say, okay, that's understandable. But when you start to then see the documents, and for me, it was the first thing that I saw was the inquest transcript and I remember very clearly sitting in my motel.

Room at night, late at night, reading that in.

Quest transcript and just shaking my head, just getting really frustrated. Was like watching you know, it was like watching a movie and you know, sort of saying, don't do that, don't do that, don't do it, you know, and it's.

Just funny, unbelievable. Basically, the interview, sorry, the inquest.

Transcript highlighted just how how little the Oxley Local Area Command, which the local Timworth Police are apart of, actually did when it came to the Mark's death, despite all of these suspicious things at the scene of the body decided for the body, uh, like crucial what I would think was crucial evidence that the police failed to do. That kind of in my mind that thements basic police woke and you could see that very clearly in that in quest transcript. I think that was my jumping off point.

And then of.

Course after that the search was to find witness statements, find actual witnesses from the time who would talk.

And then you know, you go further and further down that rabit a hole.

But essentially it was that in quest transcript and very clearly in black and white you can read, you know, the the police that the police take the stand and you know, kind of incredul incredibiously sort of dismiss their actions. So one of the things is there was there was a towel found underneath Mark's.

Head, really bizarre. Mark was lying on training tracks.

There was a towel. Everybody who went to the scene is that a training driver?

Who who drove the train that went over Mark?

The ambulance people that the police, and the police themselves said the towel was really odd and very strange and it looked like it had been put under the Mark's head.

But when they were asked did they did they take it? They said no, and then they admitted.

That it was lost. They had no idea where it was. That was for me kind of that that was the.

Moment of going, oh my god, like, you.

Know, you should have taken that towel. And then there was a stolen car that was found nearby, and that car would never feeding it printed and it was never to take Well, it sat out there for at least six weeks, the family claims, and any inquest, the officer says, yeah, they didn't bother it feeding it printed because it had

In fact, everyone knew it and thought it was hilarious.

Because in Tamworth, you know, a seventeen year old boy is normally obsessed with the cars, but Mark just couldn't.

And yet there was a stolen carting.

Buy, it was odd towel under his head and that was just the stuff of the anomalies. But yeah, it was all in the black and white, all publicly accessible in any question transcripts, So at that point anyone could have seen that and started strowing the dots.

But yeah, that was my jumping off point.

It's really interesting when you talk about how you actually got into the story and seeing all of the inconsistencies police testimonally, because it really parallels a lot about our own investigations. It couldn't And the thing I found really interesting about the first part of your documentary was you talked it all over the background of police sitting and newf Well at the time, and so I died an a eight in ninety nine, nine ninety one of the

At that time?

Yeah, I mean that's really interesting and I think for me as as an Aboriginal reporter, it's a context is key when I'm talking about Mark's case, because it was a very different police force in the late eighties nineties in New South.

Wales and all around Australia.

And you know, I didn't want to say Anne indigenous audience or people out there to say, oh, you know, just typical black follows and bit a chip on their shoulder, like you know, there are.

White victims too. I really wanted to ram home the fact that there.

Was institute visualized racism at that time. You know, don't ask me, don't ask for the community. Go on and look at the Royal Commission Average Custody and read you know what they were.

Uncovering at that time. You know, they passed.

Through Regional and all the New South Wales, and there are some horrific stories about the treatment of communities by the police at that time. So you know, all Aboriginal people were dying in custody.

And so why were we at the police force at that time and.

Then fully commit their resources to their Aboriginal boy. You know, it's just you know, so with a quot for me explaining that context. The Wood Royal Commission also from that period uncovering police corruption in South Wales, really widespread police corruption. Timworth is mentioned several times in that in that Royal Commission. However, we don't the Wood Royal Commissions full documents have not been released yet.

Happened, and I guess in the next decade.

Or so, but it'd be really interesting to find out the specifics of that at that time because it falls right around when Mark died and I'm habitating against that there must that it wouldn't have.

Been quite widespread.

But yeah, I thought it was important to really said that tone and and getting people an understanding, and also that the Bison henry was happening at that time. People were celebrating in the streets like Mark's body was literally I was celebrating and also at the time with the country music first of all, at time when was no one for this country music what's.

Happening as well? So like like his uncle said, is the last thing anyone cared about it was a dead Aboriginal boy. And sadly for that time, definitely true.

And I think the problem in this case is that the more I look for, the more easily solvable is. But the more time goes on, the more complicated it gets to actually solve it. So you know, even if you had to detect it, who who really wanted to solve it? I mean, things have been messed up so much from the part that it's very hard for someone to do it without the resources.

So and I have spoken with detectives over the years who.

Taken on the case and really, you know, part of the new police force, you say, who.

Wanted to do the right thing.

But they they've told me that they just weren't give allocated time to work on it.

So sadly it just sits on the shelves.

Regular listeners to Curtin will also be shocked at some of the similarities in the evidence between Curtain's case and Mark's case, there's the issue of mud that both of them should have had on them and didn't. There's the issue of a car nearby that was never forensically checked,

Well, you're right, I mean, shockingly, it's a very basic explanation. So the detective sergeant who was in charge of who was working as a physical evidence you know at time worth at the time, whose job was to actually, you know, forensic look at things, says very clearly, well, I didn't think it printed because I had been raining heavily the night before. And then he's asked, well, you know, even the inside he said, well he could have been. I mean it could have. He just admitted that he didn't

These basic flaws in the investigation. But essentially that was his reasoning.

That well, he just thought the white mother and he said that, you know, the thinking of a print brushes are expensive and water damages them, so if they try to do it, it would have damaged some of these expensive thinning of the print brushes. So outrageous, the family were going back and forth to the scene in the weeks afterwards, and that cast out there in the elements for at.

Least six weeks.

The family of themselves, even prior to the boot open, took the mat from the boots to the police stations that had looking and we think there's blood on this.

They were dismissed about that.

They even took other evidence, could tantial evidence from the scene. One was a cigarette lighter and a pocket home. They took about it into the police station and then the police took about into evidence, and then the inquest said

So things like that.

It just shows you really just really no comment into a duty of care at all. From the beginning. They pursued the theory of that.

Market, sold in that car and crashed it, decided to walk.

In the opposite direction from town at in the middle of the night in the following rain, and then somehow lie down on training tracks, and.

Yeah, it is that.

It's really outrageous.

I mean at the time, then when the coroner returned open findings, you know, the police still kind of didn't.

Really think it was it was suspicious because the open binding is kind of they get away there because it's like, could be suicide, but it could be I don't know, so.

Yeah, and I think the coroner that might have had a different outcome. If we've a thousand medical issues in marks a copy. He had an injury, it's not only consistent with assault, but that injury wasn't brought up at the inquest. And I often think, well, if the doctor was after or if the doctor talked about that injury, I think the outcome of the inquests might have been very different and it might have leant towards suspicious death.

It's really interesting when you were talking about him. When I saw the documentary about the family actually gathering evidence, in the family having to do everything just to get police to even try to take it seriously, it reminds me of the case up in.

Darwin that I did just around a lot of.

Time as a young boy who was killed in a borolula and then the family actually had to go and find tracks, they actually helped find evidence. It was just this, you know, would any other victim of his family have to do this?

Alan?

Why does this continually happen to Aboriginal people?

And I remember that case very well, and I think I remember that the police shirking.

It off, saying that these kids are also.

Almost continueing they go and walk it out or something like that, all gone off and play as if Abaginal kids just disit here all the time, saying in Barroville, you know, you get the police dismissing as not for.

Alarm, and then a family knowing something was wrong.

I think, and particularly in you know, yeah, this would have never happened with the non indigenous victims.

Or I should also say, you know a lot of also very say poor white people who who don't get the carriage they deserve either when they can't all investigations, they deserve it.

But what's in cities though original victims is that often an a elicit less sympathy or empathy from the public.

And part of the theory explores and my.

Investigation is speaking with literas of the barons about this issue. Yaba, how instead of learning at university technology did a study about me when it came to the barrel of murder victims and found that you know, overwhelmingly there was just very little empathy for dead original children, which is just

I mean, people would be protesting at the front of police stations.

But sadly, I think, you know, aberdaging victims just seemed to not really matter to the to the er Australian public, and the same in Don's family. Duct Yeah, Don has had to him and his brothers went out initially and.

They walked to the scene. They did all of the things that the police should have done. They walked from the.

Car to the site to see the very steep rail bridge, to see whether you cross it there was, They went around, made inquiries and what's astounding is the detectives encouraged that for them in the weeks after to go around and make their own inquiries and essentially.

On the speaking to us so you should go into it.

And of course that put them in a great personal danger to the small town.

Uh.

Don the uncle had his draw broken and was told that.

One of the suspects was waiting with the rifle outside

Then and then later on you know, sort of just close up the case. So sadly, I think this wouldn't flag kid definitely.

One of the things you're reporting has shown both on this case and in the documentary more broadly, is as you've just spoken about what the family has to do to try and solve the crime. But I was wondering if you can explain to us and tell our listeners the trauma too, because clearly, for someone that goes through this normally and non indigenous family, there's purely the trauma of the loss. But here you've got thirty years of

Uh?

Yeah, the trauma is is ever present. And you know, we are original people. We have need to generate trauma already. So that's that's that's.

There already, and this compounds it.

And it's really particularly in this case, it's really compounded a lot more because a family who were living in at the time, so the cold.

Hour was the average community and the wider the.

Community called it Vegeman Village literally on the other side of the train tracks, you know, sort of like a suburb that formerly a mission kind of thing.

But there's already that idea that you know, people already feel lesser than the rest of the town.

And then then they're dealing with the loss of their son, their grandson and nephew and their brother.

At the same time they're being dismissed by the police.

So it is that inter generations from coming back up again saying well, you know, your your lives aren't worth it as much as as those on the other side

Of get hurt by this.

And in this case it was done the main uncle and his and then Mark's parents passed away before they ever knew what happened to Mark, and he made them a promise.

That he would find out what happened to Mark.

The thing is once he did that, and he from the beginning he was the older and stronger brother, I guess, and wanted to take it all.

He took all that trauma on.

But then at the same time also the created a tension later on when family members wanted to help. And you can see this the system splitting people up, and you know, family members move away and time goes by. When I was really doing the series, I went and met with everyone and they all came together for the first time in years at the anniversary of Mark's death. It was incredibly emotion. There was so much trauma. It is incredibly powerful and very sad to witness and then

Definitely. Oh, thank you so.

Much for pointing out, because I.

Think I see similarities in so many cases that have recorded in relation to how it's actually affected the family and ends up causing and compounding further trouble a lot of these issues, And I was just wondering, you know, a lot of you were reporting.

Has led to reopening of the case.

You've actually had witnesses from back then approach you after reading.

Your stories on buzz Seed.

What's actually going to happen now?

Like what actually.

Legal avenues are available for Marquin's family.

There's a couple of things that it could happen, but I guess that the main goal for everyone at the moment is for the new South Wales States Crime Commands homicides to what was to take it on now. The State Crime Commander.

Are an elite unit based in Sydney and they have.

Sole resources, solely dedicated to solving homicidence or cold cases, and they've had a lot of success in the past. But for that to happen and they have to review the local police investigations into marketday. Yeah, so I guess what happened when that league came forward last year after reading my work. She then basically if we kept following up and we found out almost a year down on the track that the police hadn't taken a statement, and

You know that this is this is really, this is terrible.

After ten years, this whole case is acted once again and yeah, the police couldn't bother it to take a statement from.

The league the local police.

So he then lobbied for the family to get the State Crime Command to review the case. And that's where we're out at the moment. They are currently reviewing the families.

The local police investigations.

If they find any of them were inadequate, then they will take in the case.

I think at the moment, the family like this might be a last resort, and so they're really.

Got their hopes, but there is ability they won't take it on either. So you know, it's a very precarious situation because you know, after all.

Of this, the local police still have it.

I guess there's nothing to say that they won't continue their pattern of just you know, kind of pushing it aside while they're focused on other cases. But the State Crime Command definitely we're hoping take it on, and I have no doubt if they do, they will have someone arrested or particulars pointed out within a year, because I think the evidence is there. The transcript to there mean, it's it's evident to anyone who reads them that they

I think yeah.

And the State Crime Command also talk on the Barrabal case. The Gary Jubilan is attached to that. The detective who then stood decided the families that I'm going to help you. And once that happened, once this unit took it on, things started to happen and again, so there's a real hope that they take on this case as well.

That was Aboriginal journalist Alan Clark, whose incredible three part documentary series Cold Justice is currently featuring on NITV. The final episode will air tonight, June the first, at nine point thirty on NITV, and you can go to SBS on demand and catch the first two episodes before you