Psych Up | EP 4

Hi, Curse Up listeners, I know you miss me on your feed. Don't worry. We're working on an all new season of Curse Of coming out later this year. In the meantime, if you can't stop thinking about the shocking stories you heard about America's Next Top Model, you'll definitely want to check out our new docuseries from E Dirty Rotten Scandals. In the series, you'll hear from the America's Next Top Model participants you heard from on Curse Of, and a few you didn't like former A and TM

I should be America's like Tima, because I devoted myself to this every day. It is like a fashion opportunity.

I caught up with Jaslene earlier this year. These days, she's a preschool teacher and she has the soft spoken demeanor to match. But back in two thousand and six, being on A and TM was her dream.

I come from a Puerto Rican culture and in Chicago, no one was talling skinny, so I was just like the model of the town.

But there weren't too many high fashion runways in her neighborhood in Chicago, so she got exposure elsewhere.

From a very young age, I grew up on the stage.

I was singing, a dancer, but then naturally I progressed into becoming a model. I started competing in pageants, and I also started doing hair shows for.

This Latino woman who owned the hair salon, and I started to realize we would win every competition, that I would grace the runway.

On people at school and in her neighborhood. Also started to realize there was something special about Jasleen. Remember this was also in an era where if you were a tall, pretty girl, people would tell you should.

Be on America's Next Top Model, you show audition for America's Next Top Model.

That's all I ever heard about. So she did. Jaslene got her dad to rent a car and she drove six hours from Chicago to the nearest audition in Cleveland. And when she got there, oh, Jaslen was ready.

I remember my first opportunity to be exposed to the camera. I had to step out when they called my name, saved my name, my height.

And where I'm from.

So I was preparing myself mentally, this is going to be the time to shine. I said my name, my heights, and where I'm from, like the most Choshawk diva ever.

When Jaslen started telling me about her semi finals audition, her preschool teacher persona melted away. She was filled with the energy I remember from A ANDTM. I could see the energy that got her into the semifinals.

The next day, I had to stay at a hotel and that was where the casting director was actually present, which was Michelle Mack. And she had a camera in front of her and she had asked each and every girl, when you come up to me, consider this camera Tyra Banks, and you gotta tell Tyra Banks why you want to be on America's next top model. So the girls were all coming up and they were all giving a sobbing story. I mean I'm talking about every girl was crying, she

Jsleen's performance landed her in front of the Queen and her trusted advisors.

Hi, my name is Chae Clean.

I am nineteen years old.

Did you learn all that in Catholic school?

Okay?

That come to tray so.

Many different lines?

Give me some looks? What looks can you?

Ptra?

I can give you next twenty one? Next, what else? Jessleen nailed her audition in front of Tyra and the Jays, But once she left that room, she had another very important room to go into. Here's longtime ANTM creative director and judge j Manuel explaining what happened to the wannabe contestants after they left the judging panel.

The girls come in and meet with Miss Jay Tyra and myself, but they go out of our room and they literally go into three other rooms. We're three independent psychologists. They get an evaluation.

Jay Manuel is talking about the psychological evaluation. Everyone to be contestant had to go through a series of tests and conversations with the psychologists to determine if they were mentally fit enough to be on the show.

Had a red, an orange, and a green, and so the green was obviously totally mentally capable to be on the show, and then Orange and then red were not allowed to be on the show.

Jaslene, like all the other contestants, answered a series of questions. They were asked about their background, their relationships, their struggles. After Jaslene met with the show psychologists, she and all the other finalists were gathered to hear Tyra make her final selections. This was the last cut to see who would officially be joining the cast of A and TM Cycle seven.

The last girl that will join these twelve lucky ladies over.

Here is Jaslene. Wait and waited and waited. If other names were called Jaslene didn't make the cut.

She counted down the girls that were going to go into the house, and I was not in that pool. I'm giving up. We shouldn't give up. I was very upset and kind of dumbfounded by those results. I thought I was going to make it into the house.

When Jaslene got cut, she was so distraught she couldn't even bring herself to do her exit interview.

They eventually had to bring a producer to me to sit me down and tell me the reason why I didn't get picked.

The producer told her it wasn't her runway walk that got her cut. It wasn't about her not looking good in photos. It wasn't that she didn't have that it factor. She did. Jaslene was cut because of something she told the show psychologist. Want to beyond Some, want to beyond Some. Welcome to the Curse of America's Next Top Model. I'm Bridget Armstrong. Every ANTM hopeful had to undergo a psychological

I was very open and explicit about my relationship with my boyfriend at the time. I spoke about the highs and lows that I was going through.

But to the psychologists, it sounded like more than highs and lows. It sounded like Jaslene was in danger.

The therapist had overruled Tyra Binks's decision to put me into the house because I was in an abusive relationship. That was the first time I had ever heard that I was in a domestic violence situation.

Jaslene told the psychologist that her boyfriend was controlling and jealous. He would accuse her of cheating and go through her phone, and sometimes the abuse turned physical. But rather than putting her in the house and making her abusive relationship a storyline or just sending her home with no explanation at all, Jaslene says A and TM producers made a deal with her.

They were like, you know, if you get out of that relationship, if you get help, we would guarantee your spot back into the house. And so I underwent six months of therapy to understand what domestic violence is, how to get out of it, built some confidence in so once I came back, I auditioned.

And the rest is history.

America's Next Top Model.

Yes, Jessie, I didn't make it the first time, but now look at me.

I'm America's next Top Model. I'm a coverer and I think that shows to all young women. If you have that drive, keep going.

Jessie made it into the house on cycle eight and won the whole thing. She told me A and TM wasn't just a show she won or her ticket into the modeling industry. It was a lifeline.

I didn't see those bad patterns, bad behavior as an abusers profile, so I would have seen my ex boyfriend as someone just normal treating me normal.

You know.

So there was this new awareness that now I cary Eve him throughout my life. To this day, I feel like being on america Next Top Model actually saved my life.

Jazzleene's experience with the A and TM psyche vow is an example of how it worked at its best, But Jazzleene's story is rare. For a lot of contestants, it was just an annoying thing they had to do to get on the show. But there are some who say this psyche vow was the beginning of their A and TM trauma and others who say it was biased and flawed. When we started looking into the psyche vow we thought we were just exploring a little known aspect of A

I'm from Minnesota, so I do remember that our psyche evaluations were conducted and put together by the University of Minnesota.

Gina's referring to the Minnesota Multi Phasic Personality Inventory, or the MMPI. It's one of the most widely used psychological tests in the world. Based on what I've heard, the version the models took was probably the MMPI two. It's a huge test containing over five hundred true false questions where the statements are designed to feel random, even repetitive at times, so the person taking it can't easily predict what the test is measuring. Here are a few real

Some of the questions involve scenarios like this, if a group of people are bowling one person, what do you do? It's multiple choice, but it'd be like, I stand up for that person, it's none of my business, you know, or this or that. It shows the way that you would actually react to any given type of situation.

The psyche valve seemed to be a big part of the casting process. The model spent hours taking tests and having conversations with psychologists, and they were told it was for their safety.

When you first go on America's Next Top Model or you're getting cast for it, they preface you going to see a psychologist to make sure that you are prepared mentally that you aren't going to be a danger to yourself or to anybody else on the show, because you're gonna be put under insane stress because you're basically taken out of your life that you're used to and you're kind of, you know, stuck in this whole Truman show.

Here's Britney Brower from Cycle four.

I just remember the psych evaluation, or my understanding of it, was basically to make sure we were like mentally able to go with like extreme like I don't want to say mind games, but we're gonna be put through a lot. Can you handle it? And that's kind of how we are told, like we need to know that you're not going to break down get suicidal. You've got to make sure you're not suicidal. And it would just keep asking the same questions in different ways over and over and

Oh my gosh. Hannahcat Jones was on a later season Psycle sixteen. She remembers being told about past contestants who weren't cut out for the rigors of reality TV.

I was under the impression that the psych evaluation was to make sure that we were mentally stable for the show. They were like, you are going to experience a lot of pressure, and girls in the past have not been able to handle that, so we have to make sure that you're mentally strong enough to go through with what production will ask of you.

The contestants were told the psyche vow was about their safety. A ANDTM wanted to make sure potential contestants wouldn't harm themselves or others while on an A and TM set. But as we explore Top model psyche vow process, I want you to ask yourself, what does safety really mean? And who's safety were they really worried about? Those are the questions my production team thought about a lot. It's clear A ANDTM was worried about the contestants' physical safety

Was looking for a psychologist because he was going to do some TV show and he asked me if this emotional intelligence might be helpful. I didn't know really, but I said, well, we can find out what's the show about. And he said, well, they're going to put these people on an island and then vote out one each week, and that would be the nature of the show. And I said, wow, who's going to watch that.

That show, of course, turned out to be Survivor and they used doctor Stein's adapted emotional intelligence tests to cast the first season. Since then, doctor Stein has worked on dozens and dozens of reality shows, including franchises of Big Brother, The Amazing Race, and The Bachelor. Doctor Stein confirmed that when he's working on a show, his first priority is to make sure the contestant is a safe choice.

We want to make sure that they have no significant psychotic episodes by poor or they're not have some substance abuse, or they're not very aggressive and have problems with anger. So there are certain things that we rule out borderline personality. We want to make sure that it's going to be a safe environment, both for them and the other cast members.

I asked doctor Stein about the MMPI two, the psychological test the models were given, and about how it's used in reality TV casting. Doctor Stein uses the same test when he's conducting psyche valves.

It's the most widely used mental health test in psychology. It's used almost everywhere hospitals and clinics and all that kind of thing.

But doctor Stein doesn't only use the MMPI for safety. He also has a say in casting, so he looks for certain personality types and emotional traits that could make great TV.

Some of the questions we asked look at things like your ability to identify your own emotions, how you're feeling. Some people have no idea how they're feeling. Some people are really tuned into their own feelings. We look at how do you express yourself?

Think about the talking hit confessionals we see on a lot of reality TV shows. Cast members need to be able to talk about their feelings. Doctor Stein's also interested in how well a person plays with others, your ability.

To make good relationships with others, your interpersonal skills, your ability to make good decisions. Do you get over emotional and make bad decisions or are you cool, calm and collect. And finally, your ability to manage stress, which is a big thing in reality shows. You got to sometimes go through long periods of time stressful situations, so we want to see how well you are at managing the stress in your life.

But there is one trait, and he says almost all reality stars have across the board.

If you're going to be on a reality show, chances are about ninety percent you're going to score high on a narcissism scale. Narcissists want to be on TV. Also, the narcissists tend to perform right. They want the attention, so when they're on a show, they take up all the light and you know, production likes that. They like people who are in the limelight and do funny things and so on.

Doctor Stein also told me that what he looks for isn't universal. What works for one reality show might not work for another.

So some shows, you know, we like to call them a social experiment. Think of The Big Brother and shows like that, where you put people in a house or in a situation, and there what's important is your ability to kind of use your interpersonal skills and maybe even be a bit manipulative of your ability to manipulate other people. Other shows, maybe cooking shows, you may be looking for

In the case of A and TM, it's more like how well can you pose with a tiger. There are a lot of ways tests like this can be useful, but it's not a perfect system. It's flawed because well, it's written and administered by people, and people are biased.

When you come from a different culture, people who don't come from that culture may take how you say things is being angry or aggressive.

We'll get into that. After the break, we explained how psyche vowels and reality TV work. They're designed to weed out people who might be dangerous to themselves and others. And one indication that a person could be dangerous or violent is anger. You met Angelie preston last episode. She was the one who got her win on All Stars revoked. On her first appearance on ANTM, she was sent home. During the Cycle twelve audition process. She got into it

Soandra looked at me, she now you want to row your eyes, like you know, like.

Don't get me started long.

Now you don't have any class, I have no time.

The two models called each other names, and Angelie gave her the good old talk to the hand. But by today's standards, it's all pretty tame. It certainly doesn't make Angelie seem volatile or mentally unstable, but it still got her cut.

The casting director was like, this is not the end. We just want you to take anger management classes because we just want you to get you know, your anger and check. And I don't think I was necessarily angry. I think what it was is the way I expressed myself.

Angeline says there was even an opportunity to get into a physical altercation with her op when her rival's name got called to join the cast. That girl intentionally shoulder checked Angelie.

She bumped me going over to Tyra, and like everybody thought I was gonna hit her and I didn't.

So I think it was like.

The psychiatrist was telling them based on the little test that we take, oh she's violin or blah blah blah, but you're not seeing that when this girl bumped me, because I could have went after her, but I didn't because you know, I'll be talking, I'll be I'll be raw, raw, but I'm really a softie, like I'm not gonna with hit nobody.

Angelie took A and TM's advice and went to anger management classes. She had to pay for it herself. When she came back for cycle fourteen, she was cast on the show but Angelie, this wasn't the only contestant who was told to go to Anger Management before making it into the A and TM House. Tiffany, we were rooting

Bitch for beer on my Wii.

So I'm thinking, don't fight, do it?

You know?

Everything was I had the evil twin and the good one, so as we all know the evil one one.

As soon as I turn around, I hear classes breaking all. No, she did not unbelievable just my opinion, but I always thought that fight looked stage like the producers had an idea of how Tiffany might react and set her up to have some drama on the first episode. Tiffany was sent home during the Cycle three semifinals. She talked about this with Oliver to twenty twenty two. He's a content

The questions that was asking was so weird, like if the police pull you over and you got such such with it, is you gonna tell the truth or is you gonna stag it? And so they put all these questions and then if you don't answer them correctly, they make you think you crazy. So I felt like I shouldn't even told the truth because I thought by telling the truth they would.

Appreciate me more. But I didn't get picked.

Before I left, producers whispered to me and they were saying things looked by the anger management and different stuff like that. So I already kind of had it in my brain that I was going back to the forth and they say, you go get your anger management. Well, welcome to full cycle.

Let me say this. We don't know if any other contestants were sent to anger management based on the psyche bows. These are just women who've spoken publicly about their experience. We also don't know about the models who were flagged and didn't get a second chance. It's clear Tyra and the producers wanted Tiffany and Angelie on the show, and rightfully so. They gave us some of A and TM's most memorable moments. But before they got there, A and TM told them to get anger management. Now here's the

Don't ever touch me again, or else you will get knocked out.

Oh I'd like to see it god. And what about Lauren Utter from cycle ten, who stood on a chair and screamed at another contestant during an argument. On a later episode, she told another contestant she hopes they choke on their coffee. Here's your call, coffee a big lady.

You are not even what choke.

On it or the conflict between Romeo and Adam on cycle twenty one, I don't understand that.

Guys, there's a zero percent chance I punched you right now, So I don't know if you're if it's.

Like punch me, it's so punched me, so punched me, so punch me, so punch so punch me. I'm not gonna punch you a punch me Romeo, head budded Adam, Romeo's crazy.

He's a little cannon you head buddy to somebody, that sounds pretty angry to me.

And there are other examples. But as far as we know, whatever those contestants told psychologists wasn't enough to get them flagged as too angry to be on the show, and that raises concerns about the psychologists who are evaluating the candidates. There's research that shows that at least two thirds of health care providers, including mental health professionals, demonstrate implicit bias

I was lying on the psychic vow like I can't let these motherfuckers they come crazy.

After the break, we get into the other blind spot of the psyche vow. After talking to Angelie, preston myself, I don't think she was violent I don't even think she's angry. I think she was confrontational. After Angelie went to Anger Management, she auditioned for A and TM again, and this time she knew what to say.

One of the things the psychiatrist pointed out after I was eliminated in the first episode was my psych results. I feel like I was too honest on Psychle twelve. I feel like I was too honest with the questions. I was like, Okay, now I know when I'll go back on again. I got to tighten up. I can't be as honest because if I'm honest, then that could possibly hurt my opportunity again.

So Angelie did what she needed to do to get cast.

I was lying on the psychic valve, like I can't let these motherfuckers they come crazy.

And you know what's funny now that I'm thinking.

About it, because you meet with the psychiatrist.

So I remember her saying, your answers from the first time you auditioned to now are so different, and in my mom I'm.

Like, please, Like I knew what to say on this one. This time, Angelie gave the answers she thought would get her on the show, but it wasn't necessarily the truth. Here's what Psychle twenty four is. Gina Turner told me about her psyche bow.

I'm gonna be completely fucking honest with you.

I lied on my fucking test.

It would be like, if Johnny was running after you with a knife, what would you do? A Stand there and let him stab you, B run the opposite direction. Three grab a weapon and defend yourself, or four commit suicide or like something stupid. Right, my answer would be, see, I'm gonna grab a weapon and defend myself. Johnny gotta go.

But I knew that that's probably not the way I wanted to be represented. I didn't really want them to know, like exactly who I was and how I would.

Respond to every scenario.

So like some things I was stressful with, but the ones that I was like, hmm, this question seems a little bit like too specific. I was like, let me go ahead and like monitor my answer just a little bit.

We don't know what A and TM psychologists were really looking for, but some contestants say they just gave the answers that they thought would get them past the psyche val. We don't know if it made a difference or not. What we know is that they got cast on the show. I want to tell you about one more case of a contestant telling A and TM psychologists something that wasn't true. Remember Jaslene, who you heard from at the top of this episode. She was red flagged by psychologists because she

Show, I have a confession. I was with my ex boyfriend for four years. He did hit me and you know, went through emotional abuse, but I ended up going back to him.

A and TM didn't use her abusive relationship as a storyline, but Tyra and her production company found a way to get some mileage out of it. In this incredibly cringy segment of the Tyra Show.

So after that, we're, you know, off camera, we're talking and I'm like, I'm so proud of you. You got out of that bad relationship, and you're like, yeah, Mama, Tyra, I got out. So how did you feel being not truthful with me and knowing that she were still with him?

It hurted me a lot, actually, like it was a deep secret.

You know, it's gonna be very hard.

I'm sorry.

I do want to their baby crime.

No, it's not a baby cry, Jesline, that's not a baby cry.

This is real. It's okay.

I respect you so much and I've fancience so much You've done from you, Cyril, and I am willing to stand here and accept my mistake.

I don't even think it makes you a liar, because part of abuse is living in this weird world and almost lying to yourself. I think you were still in that cycle of hell. So I forgive you, forget.

I've watched this clip again and again, and it's so strange that it's framed as Jazzline apologizing to Tyra. Do y'all really think Tyra didn't know before this moment?

You went yeah, so.

He did it said yeah, I was destinally one of those where I just stood back and I was like, no, you know what, like, it's not gonna happen no more.

So where are you now with him? Are you really broken up?

Or are you Yeah?

I live in New York.

I want to be clear, I'm not blaming Jazzleene here. Abuse is a cycle, and it usually takes survivors multiple tries to leave for good if they are Jaslene eventually ended the relationship after her win, and she does credit the show with helping her leave, But the point is she told the psychologists what they wanted to hear and it worked. At the beginning of this episode, we heard from contestants who were told the psyche vowl was for their own safety, but how could a process with these

Like the very first time I walked out, they were like, tell us about your abusive relationship. I just wanted to be me and not have that be a part of my story, Like they wanted me to be the victim and like the damaged girl.

Courtney wouldn't cooperate. She refused to talk about it. But there were contestants who were blindsided with their trauma on camera, like Marvita Washington. Marvita originally auditioned for Cycle nine. In her psyche vow, she shared she was a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, and the producers clearly shared that with Tyra so she could bring it up on camera. Here's Marvita Cycle nine audition. I don't even know why I'm crying. I don't even cry.

I hear that you've been through a lot, a lot, a lot of stuff in your life. Tell me about growing up and all the things that she went through and all the tragedy I went.

Through a lot as a kid.

I've been just passed off to family members a lot, so I was always having to.

Adapt to new people, new places.

A lot of people have done a lot of bad things to me.

Why don't you talk about them?

I was molested, rape, So much has happened to you.

What makes you strong enough to still stand here right now in front of us?

After Tyra asked her these invasive questions, Marveita wasn't selected for cycle nine. She was told to go to therapy, which she did. When she came back to audition for cycle ten, she made it onto the show, where her childhood abuse was a part of her storyline. Marveita isn't the only contestant who said the deep personal trauma they shared in their psyche vow was later used by producers

But I just remember, for hours and hours on Andy just kept focusing on me being suicidal, and it's like, I just want to talk about something happy.

I don't want to talk about growing up in foster care.

And it was just really fucked up. I was exhausted.

I was physically so exhausted, and I remember putting my handsma it and I was like, I don't want to talk about it anymore.

And I'm crying.

But that is literally the clip that they used for how I emotionally responded for losing the competition.

Then we'll talk about the contestants who's casting raises serious questions about the A and TM psyche val contestants whose lives took a dark turn once the show ended. Thanks for listening to the Curse of America's Next Top Model. We really appreciate the support. We'd love for you to really show your support by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts, and don't forget to leave us a five