Jurassic Squawk

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I'm Dr. Adam Rutherford. And I'm Dr. Hannah Fry. And you are gonna send us your everyday mysteries. And we are going to investigate them. Using the power of science. Science! Science! I like it. Yes. I think we agreed you were gonna start, weren't we? Oh when you gesticulated, you uh you sort of pointed at yourself.'Cause your thumb was pointing at you and your finger was pointing at me. Basically you did finger guns at me. The finger gun is the universal language for it's your go.

Yeah, it is actually. Hello. It is the last episode in the current series, which we think is the hundred and fourteenth series that we've done so far. We've just lost count. It I can't remember a time when I wasn't doing curious cases. Or even in this studio with me. That's how long it's gone on for. I'm so sorry. Every moment has been an absolute delight. You know, actually we are gonna have quite a big break now between this and the next series. And why is that? It is not at all obvious from

The very obvious child is sitting inside you. They've got a special microphone boom which is actually a It's like leaning over the table to actually make it to her face. Do you know what I'm particularly looking forward to? I'm looking forward to having full lung capacity back. Because it turns out that when you do a lot of radio and live radio especially Whew. That is tough when you're operating on twenty percent lung capacity and being kicked in the diaphragm. Which is

Yes. Yes, not not co hosts kicking me in the diaphragm. Gotcha. Yeah. Looking forward to that. You get actually out of breath. Yeah, really out of breath. And actually I've listened back to a couple of recent episodes of of Curious Cases. And you can kind of especially after I've done I've recorded like a long chunk of text, you can sort of hear me in the background just being like

And I'm gonna do a I'm gonna do a really clunky link now. As the breath flows through your larynx into your pharynx and helps you enunciate and make make noises. A voice almost. sometimes with words, sometimes just guttural sounds, almost like a roar. That's how I like to think of my style, yes. Give us a roar. We'll see about that. I think there's a lot of roaring going on in this episode though, because this is about the voices of dinosaurs. On with the show. Enjoy.

Prehistoric mystery and Hollywood drama today. And dinosaurs. Excellent, may I say rawful question was sent in by Freddie Quinn, aged eight from New Zealand. Is there any way of knowing what noises, if any, dinosaurs would have made? Well we all know that dinosaurs roared. Because I've seen it on the telly. Exactly. They roared, they occasionally screeched, as recorded in this documentary series.

Yeah, that was actually the Tyrannosaurus Rex sound which was created for the film Jurassic Park, not actually a documentary. The current sound designer on the latest installment which is Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom is Al Nelson. And he worked alongside Gary Rydstrom on the first film. So how did they create that iconic roar? The main ingredient of the roar is actually a baby elephant. There's also alligator, and there's tiger, there's also a whale, and there's even Gary's pet dog at the time.

It should be terrifying. This is the great white of dinosaurs as it were. So Steven Spielberg wanted something that was believable coming from this T Rex. What Gary did was he recorded lots and lots of animals and then discovered that that particular baby elephant bellow, when pitched down, had a recognizable sound as something that seemed like it would be coming from This bellowing carnivorous creature.

Right, so d T Rex is actually mostly a baby elephant with a few other things thrown in to evoke fear. Right, because we instinctively find Roaring pretty terrifying because of the right. Well, hungry carnivore mammals today who would generally quite like to eat us. Okay then. Well what can science tell us about what dinosaurs actually sounded like?

Well, I called on Julia Clark from the University of Texas at Austin, and she's part of a burgeoning new field called paleo acoustics, which is aiming to discover just that. So would dinosaurs have roared? In terms of a roar as we think of a roar today, I would have to say no. Historically we put sounds in the mouths of dinosaurs that come from large carnivores that we're much more familiar with, like lions and tigers and bears.

And the way that those animals produce sound is gonna be very different from the way that dinosaurs shaped sound. Why what do you need to be able to to create a roar? The roars that we're familiar with, you know, in large carnivores today They're all created with a larynx, which is a vocal organ at the end of the windpipe. And this is very common. This is actually the vocal organ that I'm using to speak with you today. So it's incredibly flexible and it can produce a wide variety of sounds.

But actually all of the nuance, the roar part of the call is gonna come from the way we shape sound in our mouth. So the way we move our flexible lips expand or contract our mouth so these are things that are gonna make, if you will, that roar sound. But I guess dinosaurs didn't really have lips. Correct. Yeah, T Rex not nearly as scary with big smacky lips though. You st you still wouldn't want to kiss him though, would you?

All right. Roaring is off the menu then. Yes. So we know what some dinosaurs didn't sound like, but do we have any clues as to what they did sound like? Well here's dino researcher Steve Brissatti.

So the only dinosaur as far as I know that we have some real evidence for what noise it made is Parasaur lobe. So Parasaurophys is a species of duck-billed dinosaur, or technically it's called a hadrosaur, these big plant-eating dinosaurs that lived alongside T Rack. It lived about 75 million years ago or so in Western North America. There's really good fossils that are known from places like New Mexico and Utah in the US and also in Alberta in Canada. And it was a a pretty big dinosaur.

It would have been uh as tall as about two humans. But the main feature of Parasaurolophus, the thing that is Its signature, the thing that sets it apart from other dinosaurs, is this flamboyant crest of bone that sticks off from the back of its head. It is a bony tube, essentially, and inside of that tube. are the nasal passages. The nasal passages continue into that tube and they loop around into it.

Okay, so what did this massive headhorn sound like then? Well CAT scans were used to build a three D computer model by scientists at Sandier National Laboratory in nineteen ninety seven and they gave that model to some instrument makers. So they used computer models to create simulations of how instruments will sound before they put them into production. And this is what they concluded that Parasaurolophus would actually sound like.

Less of a dino roar, a bit more of a dino honk, that one. Yeah, Parosaurolofus has has been nicknamed the trombone dinosaur. Paleontologists have speculated that these were social animals and maybe they lived in big herds.

and the horn section was to communicate over long distances. Alright, that's one example. But I'm guessing not many dinosaurs had drombone heads. No, I think that's pretty much the only one. Alright, well Julia Clark told me that looking at the behaviour of modern dinosaur relatives

Could provide some clues about the kinds of sounds their ancient ancestors might have made. Knowing that birds are living dinosaurs and clocks are their closest relatives, we actually can study behaviors and sounds that are produced in both groups. So for example, We know that both crocodilians and birds, adults and the babies communicate to each other. So when the babies hatch out of the eggs, they make a variety of noises. Those noises can even start before they hatch out of the eggs.

And then there are also noises that both groups make to attract mates, to defend territories in the adult. And so we know some of the repertoire that we think all dinosaurs more or less would have had. All right. So if you don't think that they roared because they didn't have the right anatomy

What noises could they have made? I think when we think about scary sounds, right, we tend to think of this open mouth roar, again, based on living carnivores, but If you listen to crocodilians, for example, they are using a larynx base sound source and they're shaping sounds in their mouths, but the way they do it is completely different. So their mouths are closed and they actually lower the bottom of their mouth and shape sound with the mouth closed.

They can generate a variety of scary sounds they're just not gonna look anything or sound particularly much like a roar. Yeah, well that is still pretty scary. So we now think that dinosaurs might have made sounds with their mouths closed like crocodiles. And birds. Yes. But we know that birds have different ways of producing sound because they don't have a larynx like us. They have the bird equivalent of the

which is a syrinx. Yes, now you might remember this. We had this in our previous episode on bird song. Exactly, which is why birds some birds can sing two notes at the same time. Well in Interestingly, a couple of years ago Julia's team made a really important discovery in a fossil found in Antarctica. they found evidence for an ancient cyrinx and it's the first time it's ever been seen in the fossil record. You can think of where birds sing from as right next to the heart.

The fossil that we found that's from the Lake Cretaceous of Antarctica shows that this new vocal organ, this new sound maker that's located deep in the chest in birds That it's present is in this latest part of the age of dinosaurs. What we now need to do is go back and find more of these things to inform when there's a shift from

a sound source like that in crocodilians to one like that in the Tweety Birds in your backyard. And that fossil that you found, do you know what kind of bird it would have sounded like? So the fossil that we found is from a closer relative of living diet. I mean if I was gonna make a guess as to what a dinosaur sounded like ducks would not be up there.

Ducks. So we have dino ducks now. I really think that dinosaurs are becoming less threatening by the minute. Did they honk perchance? Well possibly, although Julia did say that uh some ducks also whistle. Yeah, which is also not very scary. So what about

some of the more fearsome predators that roamed early on, like like Tyrannosaurus Rex. Well I asked Steve Brissati, what do we know about how T Rex might have sounded? And did it in fact make any noise at all? We don't know for sure, but I would be willing to bet quite a lot that it did make noise because we know that tyrannosaurs were, at least some of the time, social animals. We found a couple of different tyrannosaurs

in these bone beds, these mass graveyards where eight or ten individuals have been found together. So it looks like they lived in little packs at least part of the time. And with that sort of complex social behavior, you're probably gonna need to vocalize to each other. So yes, they probably did make a noise, but it wouldn't have been a roar, and that really opens the question of what the noise might have been like. All right then. What do we actually know about how T Rex might have sounded?

Well, we do know that T Rex was a theropod dinosaur and that's the branch that evolved into birds. You're gonna tell me that T Rex tweeted. Well we just don't know that. We know that the syrinx appeared at some stage in the evolutionary record, but at the moment we don't know how early that might have been.

We do know that T Rex had feathers at at least as teenagers. You know, you gotta remember that there's something like ten thousand different bird species and in the bird world we find a huge variety of sounds. you know, an ostrich booms and wrens warble and kakapo's honk. All right, but I can go with one better than that. Because in fact Julia told me that she recently worked on a project to recreate what a T Rex might have sounded like for a BBC television programme, the real T Rex.

And this is what happened. So we went into a sound studio in Berlin with Chris Packham and based on what we know about how the sound scales with body size, so bigger animals making lower frequency sounds. and knowing that bigger birds and crocodiles make sounds with their mouths closed. We tried to model some of the aspects of what a T Rex sound might have been.

So we took birds and crocodilian sounds and we actually brought them into frequency ranges that are generally predicted for an animal of T Rex's size. And so this is the noise that you came up with for what the T Rex would sound like. I mean it's still quite ominous, isn't it? That's that's exactly right. We think of scary sounds having to be roars, but these were really scary sounds. And what actually was really cool to kind of learn from that little experiment

was that the sounds quickly go below essentially our hearing range. So they go into very near, if not within, infrasound. And these are sounds that we wouldn't hear kind of as sounds, we would feel. And I think they're extremely scary. Um now it's just sounds like a sort of owl.

Well it's quite different to a roar. Right. Definitely not as scary as the Hollywood version. So what do paleontologists think when they hear the T Rex in Jurassic Park? Well I asked Steve Brissati whether it bothers him as a scientist. when the T-Rex rolls. I wouldn't really want to stop filmmakers from doing too much. I love Just the creativity that a lot of filmmakers bring to resurrecting dinosaurs. And although some of the details might be a little bit off.

Maybe T-Rex didn't roar. Maybe it didn't. But I think they do far more good than harm. Because by showing these dinosaurs roaring, that raises the question. That's why we're talking about them. So I'm looking forward to the next Jurassic Park or the next Walking with Dinosaurs where they portray dinosaurs making some sort of crazy noise and then people coming to me and to other paleontologists and saying, could they really do that?

And then that gives us an opportunity to talk about the fossils that we study. So Dr. Fry, when it comes to how dinosaurs sound, can we say case solved? Well, sad to say, but we don't think that dinosaurs were roarers. Because they didn't have the same vocal anatomy as modern mammals. We do know that at some stage dinosaurs evolved the same vocal organ as birds.

Called a syrinx. But a big theropod like T-Rex probably would have made deep infrasonic booms rather than tinkly high-pitched tweets. The only dinosaur we have solid evidence for is the Parasaurolophus, which may have honked through a huge horn on the top of its head. I was a bit disappointed there because I left a gap for you, Doctor Fry, to do your impression of a parasol. I know, I've turned you down now twice. I I r refused to roar at the beginning.

And then I refuse to honk at the end. I'm not a performing seal though, Adam, am I? Which is interesting because we're gonna come on to performing seals in j in just a minute. We certainly are. Absolutely love that. I mean apart from the fact that it's Dinosaurs which

As we've established, is basically the best type of science. Everyone loves a dinosaur. Everyone loves a dinosaur. But this was dinosaurs in movies, debunking scientific errors, which I feel like some of our audience quite like. Yeah, I'll say. But you know what actually, uh we have to be fair to our questioner though, Freddie Quinn,'cause he had a second bit to his question which we haven't answered yet, which was what did ankylosaura sound like?

I'm guessing Freddie Quinn, aged eight, Ankylosaurus might be his favourite dinosaur. Did you have a favourite dinosaur when you were eight? Actually it was Ankylosaurus. Was it? Yeah, I also like Pachykephalosaurus which we've talked about before, which had a massive thick bony skull that you used to head butt other

ones with Mine was always Diplodocus. Nice. It's always it's great. I wo was totally obsessed with dinosaurs, learned all their names, etcetera, until I was about seven years old and my mum and dad took me to the natural history museum and I was totally terrified. And then I never liked them again. There was one particular moment where they think there was like an animatronic, you know, sort of moving around and roaring.

and uh just stood in the corner and cried for about forty five minutes. Had to be coaxed out with a sweet Is it Diplodocus or Diplodocus by the way? It's up to you. Is it? Yeah. Up to me personally. I set the rules. Yes you do. Good to know. Okay. N now talk about now pronounce the d the name of the dinosaur with a trombone head. Wait, where's the name of it? Uh it's called

Parasophilophus That's that's now in law. Okay, so let's go back to the Ankylosaurus. What did that sound like? Well while I had Julia Clark I asked her if we have any clues. Well ankylosaurus are kind of like they look like little tanks. They're heavily armored, they're four legged. Some of them have heavy club tails. that we think could have been used at least as a defensive weapon. And they're actually a part of dinosaurs that is more distant.

from living birds. So if we think of living birds as one group of dinosaurs that survived to the present day, and chylosaurs would be more distant cousins than something like a T rat. So T Rex would be a closer relative to what we have in living birds today. So something like an ankylosaur we gotta remember is a relatively more distant cousin of living birds.

It's more likely that this dinosaur may have still had a larynx like a crocodile. It's quadrupedal, so the ancestral dinosaur and living birds stand on two legs. But ankylosaurs have lost that. They're secondarily four legged, like four feet on the ground.

And they're kind of a mid sized animal, they're bigger than most birds. So if we had to reason from what we know of animal communication more generally, we might think that in chylosaurs are more likely to have an adult sound similar to that of the cross.

Crocodilian. I absolutely love that. And I've got to say something about Julia Clark now because we've had Steve Brissartie who's a paleontologist on the Curious Cases before, and he's one of my favourite scientists. I just love his work so much. But Julia Clark in your interview during the show did something which which may have just tipped the balance for me. Do you know what she did? Go on. She referred to lions and tigers and bears. She didn't finish off with an oh my

She was referencing films without even noticing. Ye well, maybe it was deliberate. I don't know how do you reckon the curios spot how many film references you try and put in? I mean it's it's about eighty percent of my scripts. Yeah, I I agree with that. I often take them out, I'll be honest. Um the the my baseline is it has to work on one level. Not on no levels. It has to work as a sentence. That's uh that's my role.

about dinosaurs, it's also about films. And this whole business about you know, the th how we think dinosaurs sound because of Jurassic Park, where they took a lot of the science very seriously

Not all of it. And the fact that we had Al Nelson on talking about how they made the the noises for the for the T Rex. was brilliant. But we actually got some more on how they made the noise for the ankylosaurus, which is exactly what Freddie Quinn wanted to know. That's actually one of my favorite dinosaurs. That's a a new dinosaur that was brought into Jurassic World One.

The ankylosaur is an herbivore and it's It's a little bit of a a a a passive dinosaur and so I wanted something that sounded kind of whiny and a little pathetic and sad and and bellowy and it's uh they're sort of protecting each other. And one of the sounds that I used is a tiger, but it's a tiger in heat. And it's sort of making this funny moaning, bellowing, calling sound. And so tigers don't just roar, um, they also chuff, which is a sound I've used in other dinosaurs. It's this sort of

kind of sound. Hoof hoof hoof hoof. Uh and that means they're happy. And then they also make moaning sounds. And um it's the way they communicate with each other sometimes. Just uh speaking to each other as siblings or as friends. And so those are some of the sounds in there. And then the other sounds are from a blind sea lion at the San Francisco Zoo.

It swims around and it's calling to its keepers, it's calling for breakfast, it's calling to the people who are watching it, and it's just saying Hello, I'm here, I'm lonely, I'm hungry. And it has that similar sort of bellowing plaintive sound about it. And so when we put those two vocalizations together, the plaintiff moaning tiger with the plaintiff calling hungry sea lion, we come up with our ankylosaurus.

Yeah. I've got some questions. Out of context, that just sounds bizarre. Well, A, I think it sounds quite a lot like A stomach grumble just before lunch. Or Chewbacca. Or ch Or Chewbacca, that's true. I why why does the sea lion have to be blind?

I don't think its blindness was relevance to the noise it was making, but it's an added detail and we're all about the details. We are all about the detail. Well look, th that's just one example, but there are so many good examples of how they created the noises for.

Um for the Jurassic W the various Jurassic World films. That came out of Gary Rydstrom and and Al Nelson. Uh let me just Are they do they get more obscure than a blind sea lion? Right. So think of some of the most iconic scenes in in those films. The first one being, you know, massively iconic. Yes? Okay. Think of the Velociraptor. Yeah. Yeah? The iconic scene in the kitchen with the with the Velociraptors where the kids are hiding in the cupboards.

Right, so it makes a noise which is kinda like a bark. Sounds a bit like this. Oh terrifying. Yeah, exactly. How do they make that? Come on, I'll give you this crisp ten pound note if you get this right. Uh I don't know, running a finger down a comb. It was two tortoises having sex. Good. Okay. So you so you now you know what that sounds like. Okay. There's another classic scene with the with the Velociraptors.

where Muldoon, who's the hunter played by Bob Peck, he sees one in front of him and he realizes That actually this is a decoy because there's one behind him that is about to eat the bejesus out of him. This is in the first film, Jurassic Park. Okay, right, yeah. Exactly. And he says the iconic line, he says, Clever girl. Oh yes. Yeah, which I love. Um so it makes a noise in that one which is

Clever girl. A goose. It's actually just a goose hissing. I mean, you know, have you ever been chased by a goose? They're quite clever and totally terrifying terrifying animals and they hiss. Apparently like velociraptors. when you're being hunted. And chasing is another another good one. So you've got another iconic scene in the first film is the

Flocking Gallimimuses. So they they come over the over the brow of the hill and Sam Neal and the two kids are amazed because they're flocking, they're behaving like birds. The noise that they're making is from horses. R run running. Not birds. Not not birds. Imagine that job. Your job is to go to zoos and SeaWorld and record tortoises having sex. And blind sea lions. Blind sea lions. I wonder what the catalogue of sounds that they didn't use look like, if those are the ones that made it.

Imagine their archive. Incredible. Yeah, or pitching that as the uh as the sound the special effects sound guy going up to Steven Spielberg and saying Well, This is the range of options available to you. Anything you'd like from this buffet cart of animal grunting noises. And Spielbo going

That's definitely the one I want. What is it? Oh don't worry about that. Don't worry about that. You know what I really like though? I liked how Steve said that he didn't particularly mind that actually these noises were not accurate noises.

That was nice because I think it's actually not always the case. Sometimes when you see something that's that's scientifically inaccurate in a film, it drives scientists completely mad. Th our people can be strangely pedantic about Scientific inaccuracies in entertainment. People tend to assume that I'm super pedantic about scientific accuracy in in films, and I don't know why they think that. But I'm not. Mostly I don't care. There are some things which really annoy me.

Go on. Well, it's more to do with the quality of the film than Than the the scientific accuracy. I like it when people get patantic but they're doing it with full awareness that they're it's a slightly tongue in cheek. Like there was one example in uh in scene in Titanic

where Rose is hogging uh a piece of wood that is clearly big enough for both of them. And she's lying on the on her back while Jack's freezing to death in the water. She looks up at the sky and, you know, the sees sees all the stars, right? And then, you know, Jack dies and so on. Oh sorry, spoiler record. Jack dies the Titanic sinks, he dies. It's more than twenty years old. I think it's like I think enough time has elapsed.

But there were a group of scientists who were extremely upset extremely that that night sky that was displayed was not the exact configuration of stars over that exact location on that exact date. Wow. And I believe that James Cameron actually in one of the directors' cuts replaced that image.

on the basis of their complaints. I mean that sort of um archaeological astronomy is is a real thing that we can actually do because we know the position of stars thousands of years in the past and thousands of years in the future. Frankenstein. Mm-hmm. So the writing of Frankenstein, when Mary Shelley wrote Frankenstein, it's it was the the legend was it was written over a a twenty four hour period. Yeah, they had like a booze up, didn't they? Mary Shelley and

Um Percy Biss Shelley. And what's uh Aid Loveloce's dad called? That guy. Byron. There you go. God, we should stick to science, shouldn't we? I I didn't know that. Anyway The legend was that they were in this place uh in Italy, I think it was Lake Como, and she describes how the moon was flooding through the shutters. And this was all part of her sort of waking nightmare and and she conceived of one of the great science fiction stories of all time. She was eighteen at the time.

A couple of years ago, some astronomers worked out that there was a supermoon over Italy at that time, and it's probably accurate. That the moon would have been flooding through the shutters, causing her to freak out and imagine Frankenstein. Isn't that cool? That is cool. I like that. Yeah. I like that a great deal. Uhhuh. You know what else is cool? Curio of the week?

Okay, so some feedback before we get to the actual curio of the week in reference to the episode on instruments, the instrumental case, where we were playing around in the in the orchestra with the Curious Cases band. In which we talked about Chumbawomba. We did reference Chumbawumba. And I I need to apologise to Chumbawamba because they it turns out they did a song called Charlie, uh which John G. from Twitter pointed out to me.

Charlie is about Darwin and it's the it's not my favourite song. It might be my favourite song about Darwin. Is it your favourite song about Darwin by Jumbo Womba? It definitely is that. But the lyrics are completely amazing and it's all about about how uh he contested the religious doctrine of the time and came up with um evolutionary theory. So sorry to Chumbawumba. Well they're listening. You've learned your lesson now.

Now it looks like we've got two contenders for Cure of the Week this week. Uh although John G. uh sending in that tweet, p possibly a third contender, and have a lot of badges to give out. Let's start off with Kevin Wakeley. He's written in saying, I just listened to the episode entitled An Instrumental Case, where you make a kazoo out of a carrot. This reminded me of the vegetable orchestra for my hometown Vienna,

The vegetable orchestra, as the name suggests, make instruments out of vegetables. To quote from their Wikipedia page, the instruments which are all of their own invention include carrot recorders. Clappers made from eggplants. That doesn't even make sense to me. How how is how is an eggplant going to be structurally sound enough to to fashion a clapper? Oh it gets worse though. Trumpet.

Made from zucchini. Uhhuh. That's called Jesus for uh for those of us on this side of the water. Yeah, he goes on, he says the instruments are are made from scratch, just one hour prior to each performance. Well, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, uh using the so they're not preserving them all, making your

Your eggplants. What do they do with them after oh, here we go. Then all ninety pounds of vegetables are cooked into a soup following the performance. Presumably they wash off the performer's spit. Um I like the idea though. Big big orchestral orchestral sound followed by a feast. I wonder if uh if this orchestra charges their drills beforehand. That's that's gonna be

I also wonder if they have a more sensible drill bit to use. There's nothing wrong with my drill bit and if you look at the i on YouTube there's clips from me, you look at the size of the carrot they're using. There's one that's just at least a fourteen mil pole through the centre of a carrot. Give it how long is it, Adam? That's not the issue at stake. Anyway, that was Kevin's suggestion. Th you can look on YouTube for the uh the vegetable orchestra from Vienna.

That's our first contender for Cure of the Week. The s the second comes from Agui Vogue McBride and goes I couldn't help but notice how quickly the conversation in the instrument podcast moved away from the fact that Adam used to play the violin in a nineties folk band. called The Only Fruit. This seems a shame. I think I need to hand this over to you at this point, Hannah. Hannah, why not take this opportunity to allow Adam to relive his misspent youth by forming a tribute frogak?

Imagine the glory. Hannah could sing, Adam could play the violin, all the smallest pubs and student venues of Ipswich could once again come alive to the sound of your cheery upbeat fiddling. By way of encouragement, I've taken the liberty of mocking up your first band poster. The band name might be tricky, but since you're both BBC presenters, therefore totally unbiased and dedicated to giving equal prominence, quite right.

I suggest using Other Fruits Are Available. Yeah. And your first single, of course, Can't drill a carrot. There's a picture of of us and he photoshopped us into a a street in Ipswich. There's a little cat in the background, I'm not quite sure why, but there we are. There's our first it this would be our second album after our our Danish metal album with Ant in Terrabang.

And whatever the reverse of this. It's quite a musical back catalogue we're creating here. You've even got a violin. Got a violin in my hand. We've both got our moustaches. Th there's also a a PS here which is Oh, explains the cat. Please notice there's a particularly terrified neighbourhood cat in the background reacting to Hannah's singing.

PPS, love the show, Hannah is my favourite. There's a lot going on there. There's a lot going on there. Because it you know, is it he's hmm the s he's dis just your singing, but then says he's your favourite. I dunno. I like him.

I like him. Okay, who gets Curie of the Week then? I think it has to be Agui. I think that's how he pronounced his name. It's spelled A G U I E. I think it has to be because he's done the uh he's done the album cover. Yeah, that's legit. Do they get a badge then? I think so. Do you know an anagram of Agri Vogue McBride is? It was me! I get a curio badge now! Oh my goodness me, Hannah, you monkey! I can't believe I fell for that! Did you actually?

Michelle's just come in and she's given her a badge. That's what Michelle said right at the beginning. I had to win cure of the week. Otherwise I wasn't allowed a badge and now I have one. You Oh Do you know what the worst thing about this is? What? To do that album cover which I actually did do. Do you do that? I did. I spent ages in Photoshop doing that.

And the thing is I couldn't get a rights free image, full body image of you. So I had to pay eleven pounds ninety nine for that image. Did you really? When Michelle sent this through a couple of days ago I was like, That's brilliant. You know what though, mate?

I'm extremely smug now with my Kiro badge. You did that all just to get a flipping badge? You haven't got one. This is brilliant. This is brilliant. I think we should also give Kiro badges to the other two. Well Kevin Wakeley's definitely getting one and it's not a sympathy Badge, Kevin, you're clearly the best and honest most honest curio this week. You can't be a curio. Your name's in the title of the programme. I can be a curio, I'm curious of the week.

Well on that note, we leave you for a long summer without shame to this house. We are back in the autumn with a brand new series. So all that remains is for us to thank our wonderful producer, Michelle Martin, all of our various studio managers that we've had along the course of the series.

And to thank the curas of the week, of which I now count myself proudly among them. Anyway, look, we're back in October. Remember to subscribe to the podcast. If you feel like it, you could rate us because that really makes a big difference for other people. Discovering the show. And do also send us in more brilliant questions and entries for Cure of the Week.

Curiouscases at bbc.co.uk. Every entry from now on I'm gonna de anagramise whatever the word is. I'm just gonna make you Vogue McBride come on. Well we have people from all I thought it was Canadian. See you in the autumn.

I'm Greg Foote, and I'm hosting a new Radio 4 podcast called The Best Things Since Sliced Bread. I'm on a bunk busting mission to find out if the latest life-changing products and social media crazes really are all they're cracked up to be. Each week I'm joined by a special guest and leading scientific experts to run a whole host of wonder products through the Everton.

Blur bassist turn cheese enthusiast Alex James will come in to discuss the fizzy drink du jour kombucha. I've got rapper, actor and podcast pro Scrubius Pip looking at what we can Yeah. With actress, writer and beauty blogger Rebecca Humphreys, and we turn our BD eye of evidence towards the beauty in. Separating marketing hype from hard science is the best thing since sliced bread. Listen on the BBC Sounds app.

This is not the future we were promised. Like how about that for a tagline for the show? From the BBC, this is The Interface, the show that explores how tech is rewiring your week and your world. This isn't about quarterly earnings or about tech reviews. It's about what technology is actually doing to your work and your politics, your everyday life, and all the bizarre ways people are using the internet. Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Atlant double circuit. Det är enkelt.

Men om du inte tycker att det är så enkelt, är det bara. Nästa gång du behöver läsa.