MIND the gap, the buffer, and the GC; interview with Guy Gofman

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That's foreshadowing.

This is Cup o' Go for 11/14/2025. Keep up to date with important happenings in the Go community in about fifteen minutes per week and sometimes interview as we have this time. Keep that in mind.

Oh, that's foreshadowing

I'm Jonathan Hall, by the way.

And I'm your co host, Shay Nehmad. Hey, Someone sent me our, like, fourth episode.

Okay.

Yeah, on LinkedIn, he was like, oh, I'm listening to the whole thing, from the beginning. And I I like clicked on the link and I was like, oh, that'll be a fun, like trip down memory lane. And I remember that we used to say, I'm your co host, Jonathan Hall, and I'm your co host, Shine Akman. Since then, we've dropped the titles. So before we jump into this week's news, would like to ask you, what is your title in the Cup of Go, you know, conglomerate?

I think I'm just a cup of gopher.

Cup of gopher? Yeah. I would like to be a chief of staff, CTO, CEO, vice president, president, emperor, the god king.

Oh, I will grant you all of those titles as long as you put it in your LinkedIn profile. Actually,

my LinkedIn profile is a little bit full already because I put a ton of hidden Unicode characters in it to prompt inject the scrapers. But I might. I might. I have just a boring, like, oh, founding engineer at company x. I could do, like, god king at at Capagun.

I used to be the one of the leading members of the Air Capital Linux users group, aka a kludge. That was in Wichita. And one of the guys, he called himself dictator for life.

Don't know

if Not even benevolent. Yeah. Not he didn't even claim to be benevolent. He was just dictator for life. I I suppose that means he still is. If you're listening, Clint, let us know.

Hi, Clint. Of kludge. Okay. So now that the title discussion is aside, we can do salaries, later. Yeah. Let's do some GO news.

Let's talk about security.

Yeah, let's, let's. We have actually a pretty security heavy episode. I wanna leave with the fact that we have an interview with a guy from, Mind, which was lot of fun.

You say a guy from Mine?

No, just Guy.

That's just Guy. It's a guy called Okay, got it.

Guy Goffman from, Mind. But we actually have a security release that's, going to come out on Wednesday, November 19. So it's like a fixed pre announcement to the crypto package. And looking up the CVEs, I was, like, kinda concerned. There's a null pointer dereference in Calypso with the same number of CV, which is already published, but I can't understand how it's related to Go because it's like internal c code in Linux.

No, I haven't. I mean, use Linux, but I don't follow the news that closely.

Have you used the sudo command in Linux?

Oh, yeah.

For many, many, many years, I assume.

Yes.

So you'd probably be surprised to know they're rewriting it. They're rewriting it in Rust.

Oh, okay.

And there's a whole movement of, like, rewriting a lot of the Linux kernel in Rust to make it memory safe, exactly to avoid vulnerabilities like the one I think the pre announcement accidentally mixed up in the numbers, like a null pointer dereference in the Calypso library within Linux, which is like a networking IPv6 thing. Yeah. Okay. These things won't happen if you use a memory safe, like, completely memory safe language, like, Rust, right?

I guess that's the idea, right?

So Yeah. That's the whole point, basically.

Yeah. Exactly.

So everybody's happy and there's no drama as you can

Of course not. There's never drama about which

So language to there's a rewrite of sudo called sudo rs, which has been deployed to the recent Ubuntu distributions and it has vulnerabilities. Not like memory vulnerabilities, not like null pointed reference, just like security vulnerabilities, like all normal ones. And people are up in arms because, you know, the original software has been written in C and it's super battle tested. You know, it's been out there for years and years, and now people are running in rust and very angry. But on the other hand, if you don't do this stuff, you get CVs like this.

Right.

Go is obviously not a contender for these, like, very low level operating system things. Right? Nobody would write a desktop software in Go. Nobody in the right mind.

Why why foreshadowing again?

But, yeah, I I thought it was interesting. Usually, these security buildings are more like you search for the CVE, you can't find it. But now I found it, so I don't understand what's going on. And I'll we'll we'll I'm I'll make a note to follow-up next week. Yeah. And understand what happened.

Next week, we'll we'll let you know if they made a mistake or if if we made

a mistake. It's actually related somehow to this problem? Possibly. I don't know. Anyway, on, November 19, if you use the crypto, x crypto, x crypto SSH or x crypto SSH agent libraries, you should probably upgrade.

Probably should. In other news, something you might wanna update far, far into the future, there's been a new proposal that is currently unlikely accept stage. I don't think this would probably make it into 1.26, though it technically might because the freeze doesn't happen for two more weeks. But I imagine this is more likely to be in 1.27. The proposal is to remove cycle restriction for type parameters.

That makes sense to me because how would you resolve it?

Well, have figured out how to resolve it and they wanted to remove that restriction. Oh. That you could have circular type definitions for type parameters. So that's, yeah, I don't know the maths behind solving that problem,

but it seems

like it could be, forthcoming.

What's the use case for, like, it's always hard for me to come up with a use case for generics anyway. But with one generic parameter or two generic parameters, can still visualize it, you know. But do you have any specific use case where you would use recursive, like, I don't know if it's recursive, but like cyclic type parameters? What's the Who's asking for this basically is what I'm asking.

Yeah, I don't know what the specific use case is, but if I wanted to do this, I would probably consider like a tree walking or like an AST type of thing as a likely candidate for that. Or you have nodes that can reference different node types that reference themselves and, you know, something like that.

So like linked list and all these sorts of things, you want to define them, if you want to define an operator on them, so like an element in the list has a less than function. You want to define an interface, but then you could do like element, e, element e sort of thing.

Could be. But actually

t, element t.

There are some examples actually here in the issue. So one is, this is obviously a toy example, but an addable interface that takes a type parameter that returns a value that needs to be able to add to itself. I think it's hard to visualize that, but if you really want to go look at the the issue, it makes more sense when you're looking at it than I know how to explain verbally.

Yeah. The the spec the final update on this from, Robert Griesmer is like, oh, Gopher bot closed it a bit too early, but it's it definitely seems like it's going to get implemented, like, going to be accepted soon. Yeah. And honestly, like, who would be against it?

Yeah. I mean, if it's if it's reasonable to do it, then I think you should allow it. The only reason not to is if it's if it like creates infinite loops or whatever in the resolving algorithm, right?

I mean, yes, I don't love the fact that a lot of people in the language are fussing with like edge cases of generics instead of improving more concrete things. Like, I don't love that that's where the attention is going because I haven't used them yet. That's crazy. But I think I've defined, like, two generic things with Go. Like, I'm just not finding myself using this stuff for my day to day.

I suspect that happens because there's lots of open proposals, I know this because I've created a few, that are neither closed nor getting attention. So they're just sitting there. I think that that's what happens when it's the kind of thing that they think is not important.

And I think, you know, it's sensories and when you have a bunch of language developers that they would love to nerd out about developing languages. And to be fair, Go is doing a lot of like good, useful, concrete things all the time.

I just wish they would add enums.

Yeah, I saw you complain about that today, this week.

Let's move on.

Let's move on. Proposal rejected, add enums, please. Yes. I'm just kidding. We have another accepted proposal

about Another proposal I'd like to talk about. We might have mentioned this before. I can't recall. This one's accepted. It's already been fixed or resolved. So I imagine this is coming in 01/1926 in February. It's just to add the peak method on byte stop buffer. This isn't about being a peeping Tom. Well, maybe it is. I don't know. I guess it depends on what's in your buffer, right?

What's in your buffer? The

idea of peak is that you can see what the next byte is in the buffer without incrementing to the next byte. Useful for certain types of parsing where you need to know like is the next character, does represent the beginning of a new object or is it a continuation of this string or whatever, depending on what kind of parsing you're doing. So this is something I would actually use, not frequently, but there are times when I've had to do this peaking and peaking without peak is difficult. It's possible, but it's difficult.

So That seems super reasonable. I also like I can imagine it's useful for a lot of the stuff that Google is doing because they use protobuf and you have the type information, like the fields and whatever up top, right at the beginning of the, it's like a few magic bytes when you serialize a Yeah. Protobuf. File indicate, you know what I mean? Like, file magic bytes are usually at the beginning.

So you can read the buffer, but then your buffer has been read and you can't like it, in particular, if you need to pass that back or maybe, let's say that the operation is you're trying to read a string from JSON and you're and you get this this reader and you're like, if the next thing on the buffer is a string, I'm gonna read it. If it's not, I'm gonna I'm gonna do nothing. You can't do literally nothing at all. It's not possible. You have to do something.

Oh, and then you like sort of invalidated the reader and you have Exactly. To reset Got it. Got it. All right. Is there any work left if it's accepted and there's already a change list or is it like all done?

I think it's done, it's closed. Gopher Bot said it was completed two weeks ago.

Well, Gopher Bot we saw from the previous, he's a little trigger happy. Cool. Well, I hope we'll see this in the draft release notes, But I'm I'm just waiting for Anton to really see some of that. Checking the block. All right. One last thing I wanna bring up is actually two things. I want to bring up one very stupid way to compare languages and one very smart way to compare languages. The stupid way is the t I o b e index. I saw this actually on Twitter. Someone was like, what?

Okay, so I wouldn't feel bad about Go being in on number 11 until I realized that Pearl is at number nine. I'm like, what in the world is this measuring?

And Delphi? I've never literally never saw, I never saw a line of Delphi

and the Visual Basic isn't number seven? My goodness, what is this?

So I was surprised and then I understood the definition and then the definition of this index. Even though they claim it's like, oh, Python, you know, you can use this as an indicator of popularity and choose whether you should program your programming skills are up to date, make a strategic decision. You said it's a good index for non programmers because it actually just searches for language programming. So like people who search for Delphi programming or Pro programming or Go programming. And you had an in by the way, SQL, like who says SQL programming?

Not programmers, I can tell you that.

Yeah, I don't know. And by the way, you see like on number 16 or whatever, you see Scratch and MATLAB, so if and R. So I feel like this gives a pretty good indication of what this actually means. You you said this is like something like programming languages, but not for programmers or something like that?

Yeah. I I think this is more or less measuring the popularity or maybe the interest in programming languages by non programmers. Because who else searches for Python programming 23% of the time? It's gotta be data scientists and and, you know, data analysts and stuff like that, people who aren't really vibegrammers.

Vibe coders. Or or like university students, you know, or high school students or like Scratch, I think it's being taught in like middle school even. So it's like middle schoolers going through their library's computer and being like Scratch programming. I don't know. Anyway, this was kind of weird.

Actually. I need to say it in a more condescending way. Well, actually, Shai.

Actually.

So I worked with a client a few years ago before I moved to The US who used Go on Mac and Windows machines, maybe even Linux desktops too. So they installed a sort of a daemon, a service, whatever. However, all it really did was download the main app, which was written in the native, you know, for the native operating system. But it interesting. And the reason of course this came up is because we're going to be talking with a guy from Mind who's doing some of the same sort of stuff.

Yeah, so we're gonna have a short break and then go straight into the AWS, stick around. Thank you all for supporting this show. This is a hobby, we do it for fun and to learn, about various, things such as stupid indexes and peaking and rest of the silly nonsense. But it's kind of an expensive hobby, takes out of our time and we pay for hosting and editing fees. So the best way to support the show is to join our Patreon.

Now I know how we're gonna confuse that TOB index.

Yeah. Yeah. So next week, it's a normal episode. Week after that, it's, Thanksgiving. It's my first, Thanksgiving in The US. I'm very excited. I'm flying out to Chicago. That's the plan, at least. Unless you all decide to do more shutdowns.

That'll never happen.

So we're gonna take a break. We're gonna take a Thanksgiving break, give you a couple go less a week. So prepare, make sure to prep, download some episodes in advance, synthesize our voices using AI and generate an episode live because we're not gonna record one. Anything else for the break or can we jump to the interview?

Let's jump to the interview.

All right. Jonathan, how you feeling? How is the fabric on your shirt feeling against your body right now?

This is getting personal.

Your headphones on your head, you feel them?

I do, yeah.

That's good. I've been trying to practice mindfulness recently. If only I had something who someone on the show who knew a little bit about like mine. Oh, guy.

Oh, hello. That was tough and top intro of the year. Hey, guys.

I don't know if that's the worst we've had or or not, but

It's it's definitely we've the three.

Down the yeah.

Alright. What are we talking about today since since we took all this time to get Guy here?

Hello, Guy.

Hello. Nice to meet you guys.

We're Guy Goffman. Guy, how about you introduce yourself?

Hey. So I'm Guy, Guy Goffman from Tel Aviv. I'm an engineering team lead at MIND Security. Started working with Go when I joined this company a few years back. Before that, my experience was mostly C, assembly, Python, usually for low level programming purposes. So, anything from bare metal to Linux and reverse engineering. So quite a switch. Yeah. And now I'm a gofer like you guys.

Welcome. Well, if it's a 180, degrees switch from reverse engineering just to normal engineering, it's exactly it's reverse reverse engineering.

Suddenly you actually write some write code that does something useful for the world.

Yeah. Now just open it up in IDA. Yeah. You like Man, I love AIDA. Have you ever opened AIDA, Jonathan?

Have you asked me that before?

I didn't think Yeah.

And I and I think I didn't know what it was then either.

It's the best. I love that software, man. Whenever I see some my wife is doing some, like malware analysis right now, so I'll go in at home and she'll like, can you make dinner? I'll like, look over her shoulder on the monitor, it's eye to open, it's like, maybe I can do the malware analysis and you'll go cook eggs. This looks like so much fun.

No. We were called Tanin Security, which sounds pretty bad in Hebrew because in English, it's like the tannins of the wine or something like that.

Yeah. Yeah.

In Hebrew, Tanin is a crocodile. I had to explain to people, yeah, come work with me. I work for Tanin, not the crocodile, the thing in the wine. Yeah. Rebranding was required before we got out of sales.

I'm the The only thing I'm worried about when you name security companies now is I try to take the word and add security later because you're like, oh, Crocs security, it's like, okay, I secure the shoes, the little plastic shoes with the holes. So we wanna talk about how you use Go in mind, Mind security. But I think most of our listeners don't really know what Mind is because you all are pretty young startups still.

Not only do most of our listeners probably not know, but half of our hosts don't even know.

Yeah. Close to 50% of the hosts of Kabago don't know my idea.

How do you know that? Did you open the Go survey or something?

Yeah. There's a lot of question at the end. Security?

Yeah, so for sure. Good question. So, Mind, we're building a DLP, a modern DLP solution. For those who are less familiar with what DLP is, it's a data loss prevention. Say you're an organisation, whether it's small or a big enterprise, you have plenty of data you want to secure, whether it's sensitive customer data, financial stuff, your own, I don't know, a private recipe that you want to keep secret, else your competition is going catch up.

Cool. So like a cybersecurity product that helps companies protect their sensitive data.

Yeah. And I didn't even say AI once in this intro, even though we do use it for classification. We have like tailor made classification per company. Maybe you want to protect the way you produce your, I don't know, electrical machinery. We use AI for that.

And you all are also protecting Gen AI usage, I've seen.

Yeah, we are. I mean, it's all the buzz, right? I mean, it's what your company is also doing.

Sounds like good business. I'll just say that. Yeah,

it might be a bit of a bubble. I'm not an analyst enough to say that, but we see protecting GenAI products as a feature of our general strategy to protect data. It can leak to GenAI, of course. It can also leak to your private email. It can leak to a private Google Drive. It's the same for us.

Cool. Cool. How long have you been with mine? Since the beginning, actually, if we met

Beginning, I'm one of the founding guys. Second or third, depends who you ask. So, yeah, I've been here for three years. Built it from scratch with the others, learned Go on the way, on the job and React and all that stuff. That's actually

an interesting If you're one of the founding members of the team, you said you learned Go in Mine. So it's not like you came with Go experience and you said, oh, that's what we should use. So I guess the team was already pretty opinionated on using Go from the get go.

Yeah, it's a good question. I think our VP of R and D, one of the founders, Hod, he came from another cybersecurity startup where they used Go to great effect. And he liked it. I think he also likes the strongly typed stuff and performance languages. So I don't I wasn't actually part of the conversation on whether we should use Go, but I learned it on the job. And we did have some code in Python at the beginning that we converted to Go, like religious ceremony. Now we're mostly a Go shop.

So I'm curious now in retrospect, would you have chosen Go or are you happy with that choice? Do you think a different decision would have been better?

So I'll give a personal answer, but I do like Go a lot because I came from mostly C. Like if I had to write code, it was mostly C code. And there are some similarities. Like the things I like from C are present in Go, like having to check the return code or the error after every function call, not much keywords or ways to do things, but it is straightforward language. So I'm happy with Go.

You're a part of the big block of the survey, of GovSurvey. That's like, yeah, Go is good. I like it. Which is I think like at least the survey shows it's most people.

Yeah. I mean, I can compare it to Python mostly because we did have Python for the data pipeline in mind at the beginning. Like someone had to write a script to fetch some initial data from our first customers. And we changed that to Go. I think that was a good decision.

I I agree with that completely. Like, I've been writing Python for production stuff since 2013 pretty much, and switching between like Python and other languages, mostly Go. And it just happens, especially when the team grows a bit, it's just very easy to make bad decisions in Python, starting from, you know, you define your your structs. Oh, well, you have to import pydantic and you have to, like, know a whole thing and enforce a whole style. And it's very easy to just do dot as dict and, okay, now I I don't enforce anything anymore.

Yeah, I do like that Go is opinionated and I don't have to argue with my team members about spacing and formatting and brackets.

Oh, All

that stuff. It sounds like trivial things, but my previous job, that's half of our conversations, you know, half politics and half where to put the space.

Well, our conversations, we Jonathan still found something to bike shed on. It's Naked Returns. So it's like that awkward part of every interview where we ask, what do you think about Naked Returns in Go?

I just don't like adding, sudden rules to the language after we have a certain style. Then you have to go and modernize it, you know, go modernize everything. But I don't mind really. I never felt this definition.

So how are you using Go primarily? And maybe you don't know the answer to this, but like, why was it chosen? Was it for technical reasons or was it because somebody just liked it? I don't know. You know what, start over. I don't like that question because I mixed two questions up. Let's stick with the one that Shai mentioned. So how are you using Go at Mind? Are you doing anything interesting with it? Or is it

Classic backend like stuff.

Classic backend REST APIs.

Of course, every company got to have their classic backend crowd, talk to the DB and let me know what happened. Yeah. Our backend isn't written in Go. But we also have, I think, more interesting use cases in the company where we do use Go, where it's less obvious. Actually, my part of the company, we do the endpoint DLP.

Yeah. Usually people don't associate Go with like on device, except Andy, like who's doing the fine stuff. I don't think people usually associate to go with, oh, that's a language I would use to basically build desktop apps. That's what the the agent is. But, I'm surprised to hear you, like, I obviously understand the benefit of, yeah, all the team is using one language, so the tooling and the stuff is better, but I'm surprised to hear you talking about reuse.

It is actually what's going on. So Oh, cool. I'll say I said a lot of positive things. I also have negative things about Go when it comes to Endpoint, of course, especially once you go deeper into the OS.

Are we allowed to talk about negative things about Go on this broadcast?

I think it's journalistic Of are. Course journalistic integrity. You know what

I mean?

Intellectual Yeah. Integrity. Forget journalism. So,

yeah, we we do the classification stuff on device to be quick. I mean, we want to have an answer as soon as possible to make decisions without hurting the end user. I mean, one of the biggest pains of DLP products that they sometimes prevent employees from working if they break the machine. You know, we can easily cause programs to crash or performance to slow down and people will complain and the customer will demand the money back. So we try to do whatever we can on device within the bounds of reason.

Awesome. Wait, you said you had negative things to say about Go. Yeah. Let us know. We might change podcasts. Might switch themes.

A couple of Rust coming up next week. Yeah. Stick

I don't actually know Rust. I only know C in this category of languages. So don't worry. Yeah, a few of the issues we encountered with Gopher, the endpoint is once you try to use things like Windows API or Mac endpoint security framework and low level stuff. You may want to listen to security events that the machine emits so that you can make decisions quickly.

Mhmm. I wonder, like, these are shortcomings, not of like technical decisions in Go, but more of the fact that the Go community around people writing like, you know, desktop software or cybersecurity agents is either very cagey about its contribution or it's just not that large. Now y'all are 30 person startups, I don't expect you to like steward a huge open source effort within that. And also I think it's just a competitive disadvantage for you to invest any resources into making, writing, agents for Mac easier or whatever. But can you imagine, like, at what size of of company or team or capital would you be like, okay.

Yes and no. So I got two questions from you there. One is, are you going to contribute to open source things to make the ecosystem better? And one is, are there any actual technological gaps in Go, not just the ecosystem that are preventing

I that's right. But I'm not trying to I'm not trying to put you on the spot. Like, first question is the leading Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. We didn't really give much thought to contributing to open source libraries for the low level stuff. And not because of any competitive thing. It's just new to us. So we don't have it nailed down yet internally that well.

That's weird. But, you know, we had a George Adams from Microsoft, on the show, in August, episode one twenty one. You we could you could probably reach out to him and be like because they have a specific Microsoft build of Go. I think it's mostly for back end, you know, crypto, gov, compliance. But maybe they maybe they can set up some, you know what I mean, make Windows cooperate better with it.

Yeah. That's a good idea actually. I mean, we have some heavy lifters for Windows in our team, like really GOAT guys that I trust to know when memory is safe or not. But yeah, actually Microsoft might be the best place to go for Windows. Yeah, the memory stuff is one issue.

Mhmm. Yeah. It's a it sounds a bit awkward. The Microsoft like, I remember the the Win32 API stuff was almost impossible to integrate with. I think I actually gave up when I tried to do it and, like, switched to C plus plus when I just tried tried to write something with a Docker two Win API. Was like, whatever.

Yeah, there's

But that was that was many years ago, so if that's still the experience, it's interesting.

There is a library, like an official one, axe syswindows, that has a lot of the wrappers for syscalls.

So you

can just call it as a function, but many things aren't there. You just have to create your own wrappers and make mistakes usually. Because, for example, you're used in Go to receive an error and then check it. Right? But we're using those WinAPI functions. You have an integer that you have to check and then you can use the error. Sometimes the error is not non nil, but it's just the operation finished successfully, which is quite confusing.

The Right. The X Jonathan, I always forget this. The X libraries, are they official? Or are they official ish? What what's the what's the verdict on that?

I guess it depends on how you define official. They're not part of the standard library, so they're not held to the same compatibility guarantees and stuff like that. Some of the standard library depends on the X libraries, though, especially these WinSyscall type things, which is interesting. But what that effectively means is that they have a different release cadence. They can be released more frequently than the standard library and that the API isn't guaranteed to be stable from Go one point zero forward.

It sounds a bit funky. One question I'm interested in is, and this is sort of by the way leading to something you probably want to talk about anyway. You're hiring for low level engineers and engineers in general for my, which is awesome. Have you been able to find like low level engineers who wants to work with, Go?

Oh, that's a great question. Yeah. We're hiring I don't like to say we're hiring only low level engineers. I can if I get

No, I mean, your team is.

Yeah. My team also, if I get a talented software engineer that never had anything to do with low level stuff, I think I can work with him. Half my team were in the back. Like we were one team at the beginning of the company, and then we split up to endpoint and the rest. So many of my guys don't have the background, but it still works if they're all good guys and they're good with computers, you know, so they can understand that.

Cool. Just to highlight this, mind is hiring. I I visited your offices. I feel very comfortable shouting y'all on. And I also know Hod and Ohad and whatever, in Itay.

Yeah, we're hiring. So, mind. Iocareers. Looking for fun people to work with. Yeah. Cool.

Cool. Cool.

Just to shout ourselves out, the top person in the hall of fame for Shy's git capture the flag is still one of our guys. Undefeated. Yeah.

Mine are undefeated. I actually showed someone the I did a walkthrough of the entire thing, like, kind of quickly for someone and I didn't beat Ohatstein. It's

good to meet him. I don't know what he was taking, man.

I hear some inside references happening here. Can you explain what we're talking about?

Yes. I have a little CTF capture the flag challenge that I used to I used to do it more often. I should get back into it. I don't know. People are less interested in like mastering tools now because of AI, but it like teaches you git commands and whatever.

Got it.

I think it was like twenty four minutes, something crazy like that. Jonathan, you should try that CTF sometimes. I know you're bit

Well, you need to put a link in the show notes so anybody can try it.

Oh, I definitely will. That's a good idea. That's a good idea. It's fun. I should update it at some point. It doesn't include, like, new commands because I don't use them because I just, like, learn the get off my lawn type of mindset. No. I'll never use git switch. I'll just I know git checkout and that's it. Anyway, cool. I highly recommend if you're looking for a job right now talking to Mike. They're a good couple.

Alright. I have I think I have probably one last question for you here. So I think most of our listeners are accustomed to writing back end software. They probably deploy to Kubernetes, to Docker, to Lambda, something like that. How do you manage all that on your on these desktop machines? Are you are you installing Kubernetes? That must be what you're doing, right?

Not yet. Not yet. I think it came up at one point.

Quick anecdote. I used to work with a guy who installed Kubernetes on point of sale systems. I think it was for Sonic restaurants around The United States. And that's how they managed everything. It was like these little tiny DOS systems all ran Kubernetes locally anyway.

Oh no.

So it can't be done.

Well, probably helped them a lot because I've tried Sonic since I moved to The US and the fries are absolute fine.

Have you had their cherry limeade?

I I haven't I haven't frequented all the fast food restaurants yet because I don't eat outside almost ever, but the few I have, like, the difference is is crazy. I guess that the real difference in taste is the local Kubernetes. Guess that's what KFC are doing. So that's

a good question. No, we don't use Kubernetes. Usually the flow is that the customer uses their MDM, their mobile device management, the way usually big enterprises have software that helps them manage their endpoints. So we give them an installer and that's it. They just run it, like decide which users they want to have the mine protection.

Got it.

Good. And doesn't that mean that customers can, like, go into their login items and just, like, uncheck mine?

It could mean that. But I just recently

I just recently did that. Like, went into my Macs, you know, thing and turned off all the software. Like, I don't I like linear, I like Notion, I like Grain, I like Gnolan, I like all these. But I don't need them when I boot up the machine. When I boot up the machine, want to Well, I need to boot up as fast as possible.

Yeah. Anti tampering is a whole subject of writing code for an endpoint. Like you don't want the user to manipulate your agent, to delete it or to make it to do weird things. So, usually that's up to the customer. They can define what programs are enforced.

Awesome. So we, you know, to round out the interview here, we usually have what we call a stopper question, which is like the same question we ask all our guests and then it's interesting to, compare, which is, I think first year it was what you like about Go and what you don't like about Go. We ended up with a full feature list of entire, all the Go features on both columns. And then we changed it up for the second year, like when you started learning Go, but you actually answered that already. This year, it's, who's the person who influenced like your Go journey the most?

Yeah. So I've only been using Go for about three years. Obviously since this is all within the same company, the people who influenced me the most are from So my boss, I guess, the VP of R and D at Mind, Hod, He was a big influence, you know, aside from code reviews and the obvious stuff. He also directed me to like the Dave Chaney's blog, which is I really like it. And it's influenced the way I write Go.

That's going on.

Yeah. Another guy I would like to mention is Itay, Itay Schwarz. He's a CTO at Mind, which usually isn't a technical guy, but he really is. And thanks to him, all my variable names are one letter because that's how he told me Go should look like. Oh, He really influenced me. No, just kidding. He did make me less of a guy and more of a gopher.

It.

Good to him.

I just got a I can't imagine the entire code base on Pyrene with single, letter variables, but then I realized they all probably have more than 26 fairy. They

just have really small scopes.

Yeah. Just reuse x, x equal.

I remember he came, like, to my to where I work and he said, why did you call that variable connector? C is enough. I'm like, are you sure that's enough?

I love that. I love that. I'm just making up a straw man in my head, a programmer who learns Chinese just to keep all their variable names single characters, doesn't know Chinese at all, just knows the character names. Although I get I I hate Unicode and source code anyway. Anyway.

But ASCII is all Unicode, Shy. What do you mean?

Oh, that's right.

ASCII is Unicode. ASCII is a subset of Unicode, so I don't know what you're writing in.

Just white space.

Alright. Well, how can how can listeners find mine? How can they find your your job board if they're in the area and wanna reach out?

Yeah. Or if they wanna buy mine, if that sounds like, oh, I hate my old DLP solution, blah blah blah. Want something new.

Yeah. So they can go to mynd. Iocareers buy the product. Yeah. Tell tell them, guy sent you. We're gonna get 20% more salary. Don't worry.

Mhmm. So

that's a strong domain, mind.io. It's a good one. Alright. Thanks a Guy, for coming on the show. Thanks for, reaching out. This is like all of you, man. I really appreciate it.

It was fun, guys. Yeah. Enjoyed talking with you.

And thanks to you all for listening. We'll talk to you next week. Program exited. Program exited. Goodbye.