For me, I came to understand what J. Crew was primarily through the aesthetic of the catalog, right? And like a very particular aesthetic that was steady for a long time. Yeah.
And there have been some deviations, right? Yes. And so that's one component. And I also think that there are more brands than there have ever been. And a lot of that has to do with... like instagram brands that are just like drop shipping stuff like it's just like a weird twee name and they just are all selling the same things but they are doing it
under different names yeah with different store like digital storefronts and they're primarily advertising to you through instagram one thing i often ask is like is this a brand like is this a real brand right and so even that idea because it used to be if you saw a store in the mall it was a brand yeah if you got a catalog in the mail it was a brand yeah there's more of everything now we are in an
living in an oversaturated and it's great, you know, like the the breaking out of the mall has yielded more inclusivity in a lot of ways, but it is also invited in a lot of. Shit. This is the Culture Study Podcast, and I'm Anne Helen Peterson. And I'm Caroline Moss. And what do you do? I'm the host of GThinks Just Bought It. It is a podcast slash shopping community helping people find what they need in the shortest amount of time possible. So...
We came up with this idea. I don't know where I like it. You know how sometimes ideas just like float into you and then you have to text someone immediately. I really do. Yeah. So this one floated into me and I immediately texted Melody and I was like, what if we do a like. what the fuck is going on with this brand? And then like, have you, and you were automatically the person that I thought of, like, help me and help us explore what is going on with this brand.
When I put out the call for like suggestions for brands, we got so many responses. And I'm also super interested in... how they clustered around a lot of the same brands. And I think we're going to get into this. But what do you think? Why are people befuddled by brands right now? I assume, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that your listenership... are people who are in our similar age range. How dare you? We are a millennial folk, right? You have a millennial listenership.
I think also I'm a little brand blind. I'm confronted with brands every day of my life. It's my work. It's my life's work. So I think I honestly sometimes pay too much attention. And so I'm excited to sort of zoom out and get like a consumer eyed view of, you know, WTF is going on with these brands. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I would just say because I know that people in the comments will be like, I'm a young Gen Xer and I'm here. And yes, we are the broad, the blob of people in their mid 20s.
through early 50s, I would say, is our prime listenership. That doesn't mean there are people that are outside of that, but yes. For sure. And that a lot of us...
They're either brands that don't seem to mean the same thing or be the same thing that they were when we first understood them as brands, right? Yes. I don't know anyone who knows, like... how to shop like how to source how to find things as well as you do and I know there are other people out there but you do it very publicly and in my feed so yeah what do you know and how do you know it
I think like it is a little bit of you do what you love and I am a shopper. And I think a lot of it is like, you know, equal parts.
community building and equal parts being really good at both understanding the internet and being able to tell when a brand is shit you know like I don't get scammed by internet Instagram brands like it you have to wake up pretty early in the morning to fool me um so it's a little bit it's a little bit of that sort of knowledge but then also this community building aspect of my business which is that
instead of shouting from the mountaintops of what's the best and what you should get, my space that I have built is a place where you can go with both requests for recommendations and recommendations of your own and it becomes more of a conversation rather than you know the wire cutter telling you what to get or an influencer sort of modeling what they got and I think through that process through inviting
in community to make decisions about where I'm spending my money, where other people are spending their money. It has built, I've seen trends. I see what people actually like and what people are buying. Yeah, yeah.
You know, and I think that that's sort of helped me gain confidence in the way of like, if I am going to recommend something just from myself, what backs up those recommendations is years of sort of... community polling uh in a way and and so it's a little bit um of a lot of things that make this sort of like the sweet spot of online shopping and and product recommending and you also know like when sales happen like you you know the sales cycles right in a way that like you know how
It's actually pretty easy to just Google to know when the next iPhone is coming out. But I always am like, oh, I need a new iPhone. And you get it like one month before the next one comes out. I literally did this year. so like we're not all I can't I'm not always I'm not always like I literally like just wasn't thinking and in July I was like okay it's time and then realized like the second I checked out I was like oh
Whoops. But I don't, but I also am like not the, I don't need like the newest. I mean, look, I have an iPhone 15. I'm hardly like slumming it out here with, with my iPhone and we have the same OS, but like, I'm definitely like that about some things.
like that about others but yes with sales cycles I mean that's the thing is like when it becomes your full-time job you are paying attention and then all of a sudden I can see everything inside of a calendar year and everything starts to make more sense like and that really became clear to me after doing this because I've been running Gthanks now for five years. Five years, by the third year, you're like,
I know exactly what they're going to do. Like, I know exactly like when you should wait to buy this thing. I know exactly when this is going to go on sale. That's a both like, you know, watching and do things get switched up? Yes. Do brands sometimes surprise you? Yes, of course.
but generally there are like holidays and spending days and slow times of the year and big times of the year and themes and genres of what people are buying when and when things go on sale and the best time to buy what and it's it's just kind of it's like memorization and paying attention but it is It's not a surprise. For me personally, my ideal would be like a closet.
with like 20 items that I adore. That like I look at them and it sparks joy every single time. You can't even decide what to wear because you love them all so much. They fit me perfectly. They fit like the season perfectly. Like everything goes.
together and you know we used to have that because people would make their clothes or have someone else make their clothes yeah and and that would make it so that you actually did have clothes that like that you loved and that fit you right unless you had handmaid notes but that's another story that's right personal story and i i knew this but my dad reminded me of it more recently is this
My grandfather was a dressmaker in the garment district. That was his entire career. And he was really, really successful. And that's what he did. He like made clothing for like the well-to-do women of Manhattan. And my dad was like, you're kind of in the same business. And I was like.
Kind of. You are. But like, I mean, I mean, whatever business exists around that 100 years later. But like, how funny is that? It's like, but like, that's exactly, it was like when you were really rich, when you had the means. You literally went somewhere, got measured and someone made your dresses and you had multiple dresses and those were your dresses. And that was it. And then sometimes you went to like gimbals or whatever. And now we are just.
You know, the price of everything is going up. Everything's being marketed to us. Everything is. expensive then you have all of the the other the fast fashion stuff that's like it's exactly this but half the cost that raises a red flag but how much of a red flag and maybe you'll get lucky and maybe you did like it's just it's kind of non-stop The thing that I'm thinking about is that prices are going up, but what they're getting closer to, especially with...
goods that are trying to more authentically price the cost of labor to compensate more to actually like accommodate for like how much it costs to actually make items is that they're nearing what it actually used to cost to buy a really good dress or to make a really good dress and so what we need to do as consumers is to figure out a way to buy fewer things but to buy the right things right which is hard because yes i mean it's
Yeah, it's really it's really difficult. And not everyone is in the position to do that. Yep. So. We got, as you know, as we talked about before, we got so many questions and a lot of them were about the same brands. And one of those brands was Madewell. So we're going to play two of these questions back to back. The first one is from Melissa. What's going on with Madewell?
I'm thinking specifically here about the Alexa-Chung partnership. Are they just deciding officially that their target demographic is mid to late 30s? Or are they making Alexa-Chung relevant again? What in the 2009 is happening? And the second one is from Haley.
I'm wondering what happened to Madewell and why did it get so sad? It really seems like it transformed from this place to get such great sweaters and fun clothes to now really just having... all of these neutrals that feel really lifeless um i'd love to learn how this happened it kind of seems like j crew recreated some of the same dynamics that plagued the flagship brand in terms of designing themselves into irrelevance and i'm just
not totally sure where I should shop these days as a young adult who doesn't want to wear neutrals all the time, but also isn't looking to make patterns my whole personality. Okay. First, can you explain the Alexa Chung thing? So the Alexa Chung thing is that, you know, when you have a brand like Madewell that's been around for a really long time, sometimes they bring on like a celebrity.
In like a in like a creative director capacity. And that's kind of what we're seeing with Alexa Chung. And so Alexa Chung did some pieces that she put her name on that Madewell's doing there a lot. more expensive than your average Madewell piece. So they're calling it MW by Alexa Chung. And they are essentially like staple pieces. They're higher in...
quality because probably better fabric is being used. They are higher in price. And the idea is that you buy them and they're going to last you a bunch of seasons, if not forever, because they're classic. They never go out of style. One of the big anchor pieces. of this collection is a blazer, like an overcoat, a suede overcoat. Yep, I'm looking at it right now. Yep, that is about $850 and sold out pretty much almost immediately. We're going to see a lot of like...
denim shirt. It's still the Madewell look. Yeah. We're seeing a lot of blazers. We're seeing a lot of denim. But it's like, you know, styled to. Her liking, her taste. She's modeling all of the pieces. And it is a collection of about like 12, 14 pieces. That can be kind of worn like capsule-y or otherwise there's a denim dress in there. There's like some white cream wide leg pants. Everything's very Madewell, but it is.
like in Alexa Chung style. I think it's working. It seems to be selling very well. But it's so funny to me that this is like a very, I don't think of 2009 when I think of Alexa Chung. And I'm wondering if you feel the same way. Yeah. I mean, to me, she's just one of those people that's like been around my entire adult life almost. Yeah. Like like my fashion conscious, not like out of college life. It's just been like there's Alexa Chung.
i also think the pieces look very made well to me like yeah for sure they don't they don't seem to if anything they seem to counter some of the comments from the second listener in terms of like everything is beige and boring like there is a vibrant kelly green maybe dark slightly darker than kelly green yep blouse yep um yeah so i think like to me this looks very made well but i also like my thing with made well oh and you know what i just looked it up and i didn't know this she did a
collab with madewell in 2010 and she did another one 2011 so now she is back and i actually think this is very important to this question okay so yeah tell me what what are you thinking here Madewell is trying to grow up with us. And so... If she was the it girl in 2010, that's about 15 years ago now. We're at the Q4 of 2024. Let's call it 15 years ago. So she's 40. She was 25 when she did. The first collab. And now she's 40 and Madewell is basically saying, you know, we were we were.
your favorite brand when you were 25 or your favorite brand when you're 40 and I think to some people that is going to be a little polarizing I think that's a little like okay like she was so big then what are we doing here now but I actually think it's having a really nice effect on the brand yeah which is that like we are actually not I mean look everything is done with intention right like everything a brand is doing is like to
communicate something to us. And so what they are communicating to us is like stylish at 40. classic tailored pieces, investment. You were once 25. You have money now. You're 40. You're going to spend a little bit more. Spend it with us. You were our favorite girl then. You're our favorite girl now, even though you're 15. years older. I mean, I think these are all of the things that this Alexa Chung partnership is saying.
I didn't even know she did one 15 years ago, but now that's the missing piece that I had. It's like I knew what they were doing, but now I'm like, OK, they are literally hearkening back to like she was the hot young girl. did that 15 years ago and now she's back because we still think she's cool I even like I'm cool at any age I'm looking at the cut of the dream they're called the Alexa dream gene and
They are also like trying to span this like their throwbacks in terms like so many of the genes right now are like re-embracing the wide leg and like. Yeah. Even flair. But these are not too flair. They're the sort of jeans that someone who only bought Madewell skinny jeans, which was me, for like... seven years right totally i can look at this cut and i can be like okay i can do that yeah whereas the stuff that i see is like jankos
No, for somebody who wore only jeans that were like branded like the cigarette. Yes. Like like like this feels comfortable for me. Yeah, that that's who they are not going after Gen Z. You don't think so. Not at all anymore. I don't. I think if they get some Gen Z runoff, that's great. Yeah. But I think Madewell, I think an $800, an $850 suede coat. Yeah. Friend Madewell says.
You have arrived. If this is your style, you're going to buy this once and we're going to see you in this for multiple seasons. Yeah. And we're not trying to sell you on a trend. Are they chasing like the Cezanne? market? I mean, yes, they are. Because everything that Madewell has been doing in the last year and a half is actually very kite. K-H-A-I-T-E, that brand.
Which is similar to Saison and, you know, like there's some fairity mixed in there. Yeah. So how do we describe that aesthetic if people don't know these brands? Because one of the things that this podcast is trying to address is like that you don't.
a lot of us don't know where we should be shopping and don't know what the brands are so what how would you describe it how would i describe like i would describe kite as like a little bit like edgy professional like cool girl edgy professional and very expensive and Saison is like fancy French sweater and trousers yeah Saison is fancy French sweater I mean look you can find everything
at Cezanne and Kite in between in an H&M and in a Madewell. But it depends on quality and how long you want to wear these things for. The other thing too about the Kites and the Cezannes. And the fairity is they're not very size inclusive. So we have that to talk, you know, like they are they are snobby in terms of who they think should be wearing their brand. Definitely. But, you know, they all follow the same trends that we see across.
And when I say trends, I'm talking about trends that are geared towards millennials and Gen X. I'm not talking about like butterfly tube tops and baggy jeans because that's what 18 year olds are being told to like 18 year olds look like. I realized I'm afraid. the high schoolers I see.
on the street because they look like what high schoolers looked like when nobody looked like what high schoolers looked like when I was 12 oh when you were 12 so you know what I mean they look like the fanciest girls when I was in high school right like yeah they all just look like girls that like got on the bus
And I was like, I'm afraid. I am afraid of you because you're slightly younger than me. So, like, I see how that would work. Yeah. Yeah. And so when I'm talking when we're talking about Kate, sorry, Kate. And is it Kate? Now I'm thinking about it. I'm like, it might be Kate.
They're snobby. You don't even know how to say that. You don't even know. Melody, just make sure. Oh, hold on. I've never heard of this brand in my life, so I can't help you. I'm like, as I'm saying it, I'm like, no, it is Kate. It's Kate. I knew that. I knew that and I looked at it phonetically and wrote Kate. No, we're going to include this because it's very relatable.
You should. Honestly, it's my job. And I'm not saying it out loud to anybody. I know. You're just typing it in an Instagram window. I'm just typing it in. Exactly. So I think when you look at Kate and you look at Faraday and you look at Cezanne. You're still seeing all the trends that you see across the fast fashion trends, like on a Mango, on an H&M, to some extent J.Crew and a Madewell. The vest tank tops that button out at the...
belly button. Like you're going to see wide leg pants. Like everyone's doing a version of this. Those three bands are probably the top of the. ready to wear like everyday stuff that you can order online and look very chic. in like one of the big cities of the world yeah um like you would wear these clothes to paris to new york to london and you'd feel like very chic very stylish and the difference and i learned this when i studied abroad we used to like make fun of the
professors in our little study abroad thing who were French who like had two outfits and it's like well they had two outfits because they were incredibly tailored and like beautiful clothing right and also they probably had two outfits because they were like I know what I like to wear
and I'm, thank God, not 22 anymore. Yeah, exactly. I have two outfits and most of them are like... sweatpants based I mean it's I think also a lot of these brands are banking on us not being over consumers i think honestly our and i'm looking at made well right now and very recently post the alexa chung launch made well launched what they're calling the quality hub Their tagline is made to last meant to matter, which is.
Another kind of greenwashing of fast fashion, which is like, we're going to use better quality products. You're going to pay more and you're going to feel good about it. And that's great. And that's fine. But that is a direct response to listening to the. or consumer who is our age, you know, a 30 something, a 40 something, a late 20 something saying like, I am not shopping as much, but I'm happy to pay more if it means I can just buy it well.
the first time and be done with it. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about J.Crew. This question comes from Anthony. What's going on with J.Crew? They brought back the seasonal catalog. What does this mean? Is this just nostalgia for a seemingly simpler time, or a marketing gimmick in the hopes of capitalizing on millennials' growing disdain for technology? Or both? And does Gen Z even wear J.Crew? Okay, what are your thoughts on the catalog?
Well, J.Crew and Madewell are the same company. Yes. I love catalogs. And if they're playing into my love of nostalgia, play on. I mean, really. Do you follow the J.Crew... The J.Crew cover Instagram account that like it's like old J.Crew covers. It's all the prime J.Crew Nantucket aesthetic. Yeah. So what do you think is going on here? J.Crew. is like an all American brand in the way that, uh, retail defines all American. Right. I mean, it is like a staple. It's like a Ralph Lauren.
Yeah. Like it's like when you think of like your typical American wearing typical American clothing, you're thinking of someone wearing. Who's middle class. Who's middle class. Yeah. I think you're thinking of somebody wearing like a. crisp, you know, Oxford shirt, like nice jeans, a loafer. And I think that nostalgia is having a moment. I think that millennials and This is a little off tangent, but it does it does kind of serve purpose here. Do you ever are you part of any of those groups?
where i think it's katie natopoulos who gets me into all these groups because i think because yeah weird facebook groups because i think she's on them so like facebook's like hey your friend katie loves this and it's always like the fabulous 50s and it's like
People who were born in the 1950s. And like everyone is always posting. It's like all these people who are like 70 years old on Facebook posting like, you know, the 1950s like were amazing. Like nothing was better and like kids really respected their own. And I think. what is happening in what we're seeing in the j crew like nostalgia kickback is i think millennials and gen x are like starting to enter the years of like
You know, kids really didn't know what it was like to go to camp during the summer and just go home. They didn't know what it was like to save up all your babysitting money to buy a CD. No, but like I specifically a ribbed collared shirt from J.Crew that was sage green that I called up. j crew on the landline to place my order yeah with my babysitting money yes and they think that that we are starting to enter into a year into years where we're like the 90s were
Amazing. The early 2000s were incredible. And Gen Z is like, the 90s were amazing. You guys didn't realize how great the 90s were. We're like, actually, they were getting fucked up. But also, there is some 90s. watching i think j crew is out here too you know looking at all of this shit that is all over the internet these drop shipping companies cheap crappy
people being exploited for the fast fashion stuff and saying like, you know, how can we rebrand or at least remind people of like what this brand is? We are like an anchor of this country. You know, like we meant something to you.
when you were young and you were just learning what your style was and like, whether that came to you in a, in a, um, in a, I'm, I'm losing the word, but like, uh, not like malicious way. Like, I mean, like J crew was like, foisted upon us like i i felt like i wanted j crew because all the rich girls had j crew yeah um and now i look back on it fondly but at the time i was like actually i feel like pretty excluded and i hate this um
But I want it so badly. But like, I think it's really trying to like tap into like.
remember the old days like we do like look at these kids doing this crazy stuff like like wink wink like we have it good I think it's working I think people are really really uh like buying into this like simpler times yeah like brand reminder okay the next brand we got so many submissions for and i actually know so little about it so i'm very interested to hear your thoughts it comes this question comes from rachel
I have a question about the company Quince. I believe they got their start in women's clothing. So I went to check back in on their website and they are now not only offering women's clothing, they're offering children's They're offering home goods. I mean, rugs, bedding, plates, glasses, luggage. They have Christmas trees. It is bananas.
And so I am wondering what the heck is going on with this company. I'm automatically skeptical of anyone who says they are doing ethical, sustainable cashmere for under $100 because I just don't think that's possible.
best, it feels very greenwashed. And at worst, it feels incredibly sketchy. Okay, so I went on the homepage to like, look at how it works. And they have all of these convincing diagrams about how they have cut out sourcing agents tariffs warehouse brand and store so the quince supply chain just goes factory to you and that's how they keep prices so low i feel like there's something that
is lost in this narrative but i would love to hear your perspective okay i actually don't know and i and i and i don't feel like i can definitively say either way okay no but this is fascinating because i think that it speaks to something we've talked about before which is that we if it's cheap we are dubious of it now right of course yeah yes i like quints i mean look i like the quality of their clothing what are they known for uh uh inexpensive cashmere sweaters oh
And what they do on their website is they'll show you like what the traditional retail of something like this. J.Crew, for example, would charge 128. A Madewell would charge probably like 198 or like 108. And Quince, you get it for $50. Yeah. I don't think Quinn's is like a scam, but I do think that corporate greenwashing is probably a bigger issue than we know. And we probably won't know for a while. Yeah. But I think like, I guess is the question.
Are we sure this is like legit? I think it's like as far as like these companies that say they do things, I think this is actually the most legit there is. Yeah. why are they getting into home goods is it just like all the company because like anthropology does this now like they even have like a gardening line like yeah i think when you have capital yeah manufacturing things is easy
And I think that like why not dip your toe into every pond possible. We have homes, you know, like we're buying home goods. Why wouldn't they want a piece of that pie? And I think also that fact, the amount of money that like millennials and Gen X are spending on home decor.
skyrocketed during the pandemic we started spending a ton of time at home yeah and it's like if you weren't getting into home goods like you were literally missing a piece of the pie and I imagine that anyone like at the top of any of these companies whose concern is the bottom line is going into these meetings being like you have to figure out a way to bring home goods because like here's what we're seeing all these people with money they're buying decor
Did they ever have sales or is it always just like the standard $50? They will sometimes do. So actually what's interesting about Quince is that they're really big in the influencer space and they rarely do codes. So often what influencers will do is like. ads for awareness, sort of like bringing them to their audience and letting people know that they exist.
Full disclosure, we did like an awareness ad in one of my newsletters because I really like Quint and spend my own money at Quint, but they rarely, rarely ever do codes. I think because their idea is like, this is what a sweater costs.
That's what we're going to charge you. I think that's part of the appeal, right? Because with J.Crew, you're like, oh, if I don't wait for the sale, then I'm just getting suckered. But I want to buy it right now. And I don't want to wait until that 40% off coupon comes, which it will.
every month a thousand percent i mean look my entire job is sales yeah and codes and discounts and so if all of that went out the door i'd have to figure out a new career but i do really appreciate that like I mean, and that's why I'm saying is like I say this with a grain of salt because I I wouldn't be surprised because I think we're now.
people living in a, you know, cynical people in a cynical world. It's like in five years, like, will this whole entire like greenwashing thing become unmasked? But I think right now as it's presented, I like this idea of being like, this is what it costs for the people making it. to get a fair wage for us to get a fair wage and for you to pay a fair price. And therefore we're not going to do sales because we don't need to like gimmick you into buying anything. And if we were all doing that.
If that's what we chose to do with our free market, I think that that would be a really fun shopping experience. Unfortunately, like capitalism doesn't. usually thrive in those conditions and so i do wonder psychology doesn't work quite that way exactly your psychology doesn't work that way that's right and i mean like i think we all like know better but no one can like resist the sale and i know and but i also can't resist a 50 cash
in your sweater. So I guess it depends on what they're selling, you know? Right. But it also, it really kind of plays into why we buy things and the psychology of like what brands mean to us and why we think it's important to wear, you know, a... a kate suede bag you know versus one from j crew and someone's you know someone's j crew is
someone's H&M. Do you know what I mean? It's like we all really feel that the things that we buy reveal a lot about who we are for better or for worse. And it's probably true to an extent. And even though we know better, we still. find ourselves in that same cycle it's very hard to break okay so our next two questions aren't about a specific brand but they're more about like a vibe that applies to a lot of brands i love a vibe first let's hear from anna
What's up with the clothing brands you see on Insta that ostensibly sell clothing? But when you get to their website, you get this eerie feeling of religion or something else in the background. For example, Albie and Finn. And then Kate submitted this question. What's up with Christian-coded fast fashion? I'm 31 and remember it feeling like a scandal to my agnostic friend group when we realized the Forever 21 bags had Bible verses on them.
I also get bad vibes from Altered State, which I think the Rush Talk girls wear. It doesn't seem like it's really particularly modest stuff, so what makes it Christian? Are there more Christian brands with varying levels of explicit marketing that I'm too old or unfashionable to know about? For the brands that sell themselves as more sustainable, but still vintage and feminine, like Christy Dawn, where's the line between Tradwife and Cottagecore?
I think like we used to understand brands more because you went into the store you knew what music was playing when you went into the store right like I understood Abercrombie not only because of the catalog but the feeling that I got when I walked into that store And was greeted by the people that they paid as model representatives, not as salespeople. And like the stink that would just stay with you after you left.
And I think, you know, I've been talking to people about altered state because it does figure really heavily in Rush Talk. A lot of the girls were wearing altered state. And I asked like my Instagram followers, like what is going on with this brand? And a lot of moms of teens and tweens told me that it is the store that you can go to and get like a dress to fit.
or a shirt to fit or pants to fit like for like if you need it right now if you don't want to deal with online hassle like it is an actual mall store with stuff that teens want so that is part of its popularity and I think that people Especially in the South, like that undertone of religiosity is everywhere to some extent. So it does not seem as dramatic as it does to people who are not. in spaces where that is as ubiquitous as it is i think that's fair that actually softens my approach to this
Which is that I think it's so weird. It's super weird. But that's because I'm not religious and I live in New York. Like, I mean, like, but like, I don't think it's weird that they're like, J. Crew, like, get on your rowboat.
come to Nantucket. This is my golden retriever. And we're driving in this Jeep. Like it's all branding. Like, you know what I mean? Like it's an, it's you're painting a picture of a thing that you feel resonates with you. If your faith is a large part of who you are and the world that you've created.
for yourself it makes sense that a brand would come in and capitalize on that in order to get your dollar i think that that's like that that just like makes i think we kind of think too deeply into it like oh my god what is going on with this brand what's going on with this brand is that they're looking at the demographic of who's shopping at their store and they're realizing oh it's like from very like you know christian areas
Yeah. Or they're like, also, maybe the founder, like the founder is Christian and wants to be like, this is part of like how I manifest my Christianity. This is part of Christian culture, right? culture that is infused with christianity but is not necessarily like it this is not like the christian supply store that's selling bibles right no no no it's like christian the same way that creed is christian
And not when people are like, oh, it's not modest. I'm like, yeah, of course it's not modest. They want like the popular girls who go to Young Life to wear this stuff. I will say that Altered State does a few things really great. They're very size inclusive. Yeah. yeah also this is this is also they have the on their site like a who we are they say that every monday when you shop
With Altered State on Mondays, 10% of net proceeds in all stores and online, which every Monday for 52 Mondays a year, 10% of your net proceeds is actually kind of a big chunk. Yeah. Remember, though, that's a corporation and that's a write off for them. Goes directly to nonprofits across the country. Each store chooses a nonprofit from their community based on a seasonal theme.
But I'm like, oh, great. But then they write such as education or children's health. I'm like, what season is children's health? I need to know. Associates are encouraged to get involved with their Mission Monday nonprofits through volunteering. Every employee is given four hours of paid volunteer time each month. Paid volunteer time is not a thing. Thank you for joining our movement to stand out for good. Okay. I appreciate what I think they think they're saying there. Yeah.
That is word salad and not a ton of it makes sense. That to me is a red flag. You're getting paid to volunteer. Buddy, I have news for you. you know, I think like not mentioned, like if that's the thing that like makes you feel good about shopping there, like I think that's when as the consumer you want to like ask more questions. Yeah. Like a seasonal charity like Children's Health.
Yeah, I have questions. But all of this stuff is written into a brand, no pun intended, Bible, right? Of like how people. shop and like how they feel good about shopping, how maybe some people's relationship to fast fashion changes when they hear about like the good. Yeah. You know, that the fast fashion company is doing. And like, I think all of these are things you want to put into consideration more than anything, though, these brands are replacing a forever.
21 vibe and not like a j crew vibe i think you skew a lot younger yeah yeah for sure um okay what about albion fit I don't know about Albi. Oh my gosh. So it is all. You have to tell me. All over my Instagram. Okay, and that, we should talk about that because it's nowhere on mine. And I think it's because it is a very.
West Coast Coded brand in a lot of way. Not West Coast. West Coded brand. And they are from Salt Lake City. And there is an incredibly elaborate about us on the page. It was started in Salt Lake City. The founders... I'm mentioning this because it's very much part of their origin story, is that...
She is the child of a dad who is white from America and then a mom from Guatemala. And so a lot of like they like they went and moved to Guatemala, her and her husband and like spent time there. So that like is part of the beach influence. It reminds me in some ways of Somersault in terms of Somersault's desire. They told me this once because I was going to profile them as the Instagram swimsuit.
Their desire is to be everything that you pack in your weekend bag for a beach vacation. That they wanted to be all of those things. Okay. So, like, the cover-up, of course. in the swimsuit but then also like what you wear in the plane to get there So slightly fancy joggers, like that sort of aesthetic. That seems so stressful to have it all come from the same place. Can I tell you what I'm thinking when I look at their store? Yeah. Okay. Do you ever think like sometimes you see.
I get stuck in this all the time. Like, oh, these clothes are amazing. And then I'm like, or is the model just thin? Yes. All the time. More than any other brand we talked about today, I am on this site. Being like, is this cute or am I looking at a very thin woman wearing clothes? And I think part of the way that they catch people is that they actually, these are like pretty unique.
Swim designs. You see a lot more of them now, I think, in part because Albion's popularity. And some of them are interestingly modest. And I think that's why people get like a Christian vibe. It is not clear, like there's nothing explicit on the site about whether they are LDS or not.
But there are a lot of things that have sleeves. There are things that have like this swimsuit that I have from them. It's the only thing I have from them. But it's a super high-waisted bottom. Yep. And then a top that essentially is like a sports bra. So it's like a one piece that is like slightly more comfortable, if anything.
Or like a two piece that it feels like a one piece, but it's more comfortable. Yeah. And you can go to the bathroom more easily in it. Yeah. And even though one of the co-founders is half Guatemalan, like you look at the founding page and you look at almost all these models and like it's just like whiteness all the way down.
And I think that that is part of this vibe that people sometimes think of. Like, is this Christian? Like, is this culty? Is this a real thing? Like, what's going on? And then also, like you said, the ideal femininity going on with, like, the thin bodies.
everyone has long hair like that sort of thing yeah interesting it's so funny that I've never heard of this brand right right that's yeah so I started getting swimsuit ads for them and then once you click once you know in the oh yeah well now that i've googled it i'm sure it's coming it's just yeah it's really interesting to me this reads as really i can't get a sense of like
what they are making you know when when you tell me you want to own every outfit for every part of my trip what I hear is you're not really focused on anything yeah yeah no I think swimsuits is their major thing and then they've kind of branched out into these other things and I bought a couple of those things to see what they were like I think everything was on sale yeah and everything felt like a windbreaker that fabric you know like yeah like it um
Which is great because it doesn't wrinkle, which is part of like their their deal. But it's very different than, say, something like. I'm blanking on joggers, like very different from something like Viore, which is actually comfortable. And that's how like Viore's success is like, we make you feel amazing in your pants. Right. But this is different.
But yeah, I think that that's what's going on with the vaguely Christian. Interesting. We have to get to this last question because it's Melody's favorite question. And I know it's also one that you want to talk about. So. OK. This gives us both a brand and a philosophical question to unpack. It's from Dana. Carhartt, the brand. What is this weird political spectrum expansive brand?
Beloved by queers and rural farmers alike, how are they what they are? I live in Pennsylvania, near the largest indoor agricultural conference center in the country. Every January, there's an indoor ag show. And last year, everyone was wearing Carhartt. From moms in Trump hats to farmers of all ages to the local high school theater kids. I was...
baffled because I associated it with a more skier type and perhaps more big picture. How are we socially declaring private identities with our brand choices?
And then what happens when those brands declare multiple competing identities? So first of all, I'm super interested that this person thought that Carhartt was a ski brand. Because to me, and this is very much like going to... the origins of the brand like it is an ag brand like they make ag clothes and the hot farm guys when i was in high school and then in college like had car hearts and like yeah my ex-boyfriend
would be like you don't wash car hearts you put them in the stream and then you let them dry over a fire that is the aesthetic I wear car heart overalls to garden all the time they're filthy I love them they are like incredibly especially like any of the pants which they are all um like reinforced so they're double-sided they have like little things that make it so they don't wear out like they are made to actually last and They work. I have a pair of Carhards that I've had since I was 18.
Nice. That's what they are. But then the hats in particular and then also like the look of the Carhartt jacket in it, which is a very distinctive like dark mustard color. I think that is part of a larger queer aesthetic that also intersects with like wearing flannel shirts. So if you're like very into wearing flannel, like the next step, if you're like, you're like, oh, you know what looks good with this? This Carhartt jacket.
I can't separate my personal taste of what looks hot from growing up in Idaho. It's impossible for me. Totally. Yeah. What do you feel like as an urban person? You know, it's funny. I'm so like unfamiliar. Like Carhartt to me is like tractor farming. Yeah. Like outdoors. cutting wood, things I've never done, including go outside, and utilitarian, like clothes that serve a purpose, clothes that actually really get worn, you know, versus clothes that you...
quote unquote, wear, but are not getting worn. Right, right. And I also would guess I'm probably not in the right spaces, aka outside of my apartment, to see the... queer co-op of carhartt you've seen the hats though in brooklyn yeah like stocking hats yeah yes but then you know you have this divide of wearing and being Yes. You know, and I think that that's really interesting. I wonder if it comes from, you know, Carhartt is like over 100 years old. Yeah. It's probably like one of our longest.
most successful American brands, right? I like the idea of it being co-opted by a group who probably didn't feel like it was made for. Who probably didn't feel like it was made for them. Yep. But like as a city person, to me, if you're wearing Carhartt in a city. regardless of like how you identify you are trying to say something because you are not farming yeah in the way that these clothes were meant to be farmed in
but you've chosen to wear Carhartt. So you are making like a huge statement. Well, it's kind of like, I mean, and I used to do this like when I, this is a lot of like outdoor wear that is co-opted as fashion as part of identity, right? Like there is. utility there like uh chaco sandals are rafting sandals they were developed because without velcro they stay on your feet in a way that like tevas do not
Right. Yeah. And they have support. They have arch support so you can walk longer distances. So they're versatile and they last a really long time. But also I would never wear them in New York. Like I would feel embarrassed to wear them in New York. Like they were so Western coded to me. But that was before. That was before Teva's like came back into fashion. They came back into fashion. And Birkenstocks too. Yes. And you know the big thing for us.
growing up, for me, was North Face and Nalgene. Oh, 100%. Hiking brands. Everest. You know, I was going to math. I was going to gym class.
barely but everyone had analogy and everyone wore a north face but like beyond like you know anything that you wear could be a fashion statement i think it is the intersection That this person's noticing of the queer culture that is actually the most interesting part right and I can't speak to that but but I also just really like the idea of like When something that belonged somewhere in a kind of silo for a really really long time breaks out yep
And kind of takes on a new identity through who's wearing it. I think that's always really interesting and ultimately really good for all of us. And Carhartt as a brand, like I don't know about the specific political leanings of the people who are in charge now.
But like they are not doubling down on like we're white supremacists. Like if you look at the website, like there are many different races represented. I would think it would be interesting if like they had, you know, the people modeling things, if they had like.
more butch women doing it because instead like there are very femme women who are modeling all of these clothes which is not representative of like the people who wear these clothes who wear these clothes yeah and i do wonder if it's like Not so much about the brand as like, you know, who told you you couldn't wear this brand? Yeah. It wasn't the brand, you know, who bullied you while they were wearing this brand kind of thing. I kind of love it.
Look, who told me I should carry around a Nalgene in high school? I barely drink water. It has utility. It has a modicum of utility. Barely. It does seem to be part of, you know, like Stanley's rebranding to like, oh, there's like such a market.
market here for our very useful product like I think that that is part of what Carhartt is doing and the same way that like a company like tractor supply yeah is like catering to people who do more than just like buy soil you know what I mean like it's just there there's this understanding I think now that if you are a brand like you should if you have your niche but then you should expand outside your niche as well I wonder if the urban...
version of the car heart phenomenon is like abercrombie coming back and being more size inclusive and like me buying jeans from abercrombie yeah after like literally being driven to therapy the other thing i'll say about about um carhartt is it is pretty size inclusive that's nice yeah and in part because at least with like they're like you can buy a lot of their stuff is effectively unisex um and you can also buy Like different things are in larger sizes as well. I mean...
Size of inclusivity is like the least any brand could do. So I always am happy when I hear that. Yeah. Um, actually someone in the G thanks group a few months ago, probably as. they were getting into gardening season. So maybe March or April wanted like a good pair of overalls and, and for, you know, utilitarian purposes. And a lot of people were like, go. Check the thrift for anything Carhartt. Yeah. But the thing about.
Checking the thrift for Carhartt now is that it's like getting picked up by resellers like so quickly, which is fine. I have no problem with reselling culture. But but it is funny that like you can you can see brands kind of go in and out of the. Zeitgeist based on like what you can actually find at the thrift store. But Carhartt was.
Ultimately, everyone was like, if they're truly doing some gardening, if they're going to be on their knees, like in the dirt, like rough and tumble, Carhartt is the answer. I think as a brand, that's really all you can ask for. If like if you say you do one thing and you do it well and you actually do.
it well i mean no wonder you've been around for 130 years i will post a picture of my car heart my filthy car heart overall it's like they still look filthy after you watch them i love them i'm really now i feel like i want to like kind of get my algorithm moving into the car heart into Carhartt culture. I gotta fidget with my algorithm a little bit. I will tell you some brands to click on from Instagram. Please. I'm sure Albion Fit is going to be...
I'm like, I've never heard of it. And I'm about to get like a text that's like, hey, girl, you want 15% off? And I'll be like, oh, sure, maybe. Melody, did we cover everything? Yeah, I just wanted to say my primary association with Carhartt is that... Those overalls are what you wear to Chief's tailgates. Oh, yeah. Well, that's the other thing. Because they're warm. So you can also get them insulated. Because, again, they have utility. So they can be so good and warm. That's so fun.
Melody, have you heard of Albion Foot? Not until this question. Not until you get that 15% off. Getting texted to you as we speak. The swimsuits are cute. Yeah. But I wouldn't recommend the windbreaker pants. No. I don't want to like, I don't want people to hear me coming. That's the aesthetic.
Caroline, this has been such a pleasure. Like literally we could talk for another two hours just being like, well, this brand, what do you think about this? Like we could do another 40, solid 45 on Abercrombie. We really could. Where can people find you? on the internet if they want to hear more from you. Find me on gthanks.substack.com. That will kind of give you the big overview of where I am. If you want to go straight to Instagram, it's gthanksjustboughtitpod.
The longest Instagram name in existence. I didn't think about that. But it's gthanksjustboughtitpod. Amazing. Thanks so much. This has been a pleasure. Thank you for having me. It was so fun.
Okay, for today's Ask Anne Anything, we are going to pivot from shopping stuff to not shopping for stuff. So if you're not a paid subscriber and you're feeling anxious about the impending pile of stuff that you and your family are about to receive for the holidays head on over to culture study pod.substack.com to hear our takes on combating holiday stuff
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