Let's Talk About Baseball Culture!!!

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Hi, everyone. This is the Culture Study Podcast, and I'm Anne Helen Peterson. I'm Allie Liebigot. I'm a writer and a painter and a very big New York Mets fan. And I'm Melody Rowell, podcast producer and Kansas City Royals fan. Allie, how did you fall in love with baseball in general and with the Mets specifically? Well, I grew up. as a Dodger fan because my dad was a Brooklyn Dodger fan. And then he got transferred for his job to Los Angeles. So I kind of grew up following the Dodgers.

And then I like when I was like 18 or whatever, just was like baseball's dumb. Why do those people make so much money? And then I. Moved to New York and I actually like fell in love with the Mets because I had a crush on this woman who was like this huge Mets fan. And I just sort of like. got sucked in and have been there ever since. I remember this from the essay that you wrote about the Mets, which was such like, I just, I loved it so much.

There's just so much detail. And this is part of why we have you on the podcast today is because it's really interesting trying to explain. how you fall in love with the team when the team changes, right? Like what is the core of a baseball organization? Like how do you fall in love with like a fandom? It's really interesting. I love it. Yeah. And I think that like. that's the hardest part, like with like free agency and trading and everything and, and living and dying, uh, aging. Uh, but like.

I also think I was thinking a lot about like, what is it with the Mets? And I think especially because they were so such a disappointment the second half this year, that there's something about all of these franchises that is like. It's really the city, even if you're not in the city anymore, kind of. Yeah, yeah. You know? For sure. I am also a low-key Mets fan because when I was nine...

I was really into baseball cards and into baseball like box scores. Like I woke up every morning in the summer and I cut out the box scores and I put them into a little scrapbook that I had and I had the tops. complete set of baseball cards. And my next door neighbor convinced me, despite me like looking at the box scores every day, convinced me that the Mets were the best team in baseball.

And so I should give him all of my really good cards in exchange for him giving me more of the Mets. And I told this story like... at my senior graduation like how he convinced he was so effective in convincing me that the meds were the best and i think though it's because they had such great personalities at that time like daryl strawberry i think i just liked him because his last name was strawberry

Like they just were very vivid. The only other team that was very vivid to me was the Twins because my family's from Minnesota. And I knew also they were actually a pretty good team. But now I'm a Mariners fan by default.

with the little twins in the background. Melody, how did you fall in love with baseball? I really got into it when I was living in DC because I could take the metro after work. Go see a game for $5 and then walk home. afterwards um so i just started it started as like a fun social thing and then i accidentally went to like 20 games in the 2014 season and then 2014 is when the royals had their first

playoff run. They went to the World Series and lost, but I had all of my friends from college that were in D.C. We would get together and watch all of these Royals games. And so I realized by the end of the 2014 season, I was like, All of a sudden, I know so much about baseball because I've just watched so much of it in social settings and then really started to fall in love with it. And then 2015.

the Royals won the World Series. And so that sort of clinched it for me. But yeah, the Nationals got me into it with their affordable tickets and their public transportation content. And then I moved to Kansas City in 2018 and have gotten to... root for the home team since then. I definitely would have seen gone to more Mets games when I lived in New York if it wasn't like if it didn't take 500 years to get from.

their stadium to Brooklyn but come on come on that's the the seven train is so much about the experience it is it is

And it was really fun. The one time that I went at like a work sponsored event, I was like, this is fun. I love being here. There's so many people. It's great. We're going to talk a lot about romance. Like both of you. No, we just all talked about falling in love with baseball. Baseball, it creates a romance. How can you not be romantic about baseball? Exactly! As they say.

I think your opening, Anne, with the cutting out the box scores is literally like what they show at the beginning of a dateline before they focus on the serial killer. They're like, what was he doing? when he was little. Well... He was cutting out box scores, and even though they were in last place, believed they were in first, you know? No, that's so true. It also just speaks to, like, I...

I was very bored a lot as a kid, which was why I was doing things like cutting out box scores. I also had a Gulf War scrapbook to tell you how bored I was. That's the serial killer one. I know! Give this kid an iPad, please. I wasn't allowed to watch TV in the summer. That was the problem. But also, I think baseball really fits with that feeling of slowness of the summer, right? It matches the pace.

like for slower pace of life. It's not fucking basketball, which just stresses me out. There's just like whistles and like sounds reverberating. You can't fall asleep during a basketball game, but you can fall asleep during a baseball. Have either of you read Wait Till Next Year by Doris Kearns Goodwin? No. No. Oh, Allie, I'm shocked you haven't. It's her memoir about growing up a Brooklyn Dodgers fan. Okay, I'm on it.

It's so good. It really captures the romanticism of being a baseball fan when you're a kid. And your story reminded me she would listen to baseball on the radio during the summer and take meticulous notes. She would fill out a scorecard because she thought that was the only way her dad would know what happened when he got home from work.

So he would come home from work and she would give him the full report of the game. Yeah. Even though he could read it in the paper the next day. No, no, of course not. She felt that responsibility. Play by play. Yeah. We're recording this on October 1st. So baseball.

playoffs officially kicked off last night and of the three of us i'm the one who cares the least but also the one with the best team the mariners are coming off an incredible run and are potentially theoretically romantically going to win the world series that's all i'm gonna say wow i mean i'm so mad at everyone else i kind of want that for you so like Good luck. I can't go American League, but okay.

We get so many questions about every conceivable corner of the game. And so we try to sort them by category. Part one is about fans. Part two is about the experience at games. Part three is about some of what is going on within the MLB. It's all about baseball culture, which I think there's so much to unpack. This first question comes from Tessa. I love baseball. In fact, I'm watching it right now. My question is, why is it my only hobby?

where it seems like it's socially acceptable for people to tell me how they find it extremely boring after I tell them how much I love it. Elliot, does this happen to you? I mean, I just want to tell Tessa you need new friends ASAP. And like, that's... that verges on a hate crime kind of let's say that's hate speech and uh no I mean also I don't

I feel probably I monologue at length about everything around people, so they're bored of almost everything I say, so baseball's just another nugget in there. I do feel a little bit weird at work when people... i can tell like some someone's asked me about the mets and then i could go on and on and you just see certain faces glaze over i feel like okay i don't want to take up too much space in this area but uh

anything's boring and nothing's boring. That's what I have to say, Tessa. Tell them that. Well, I also think baseball has changed a lot in the last year. When did they get rid of the...

the or when did they put the timers on uh two years ago two years ago right so like don't you feel like i feel this incredible enthusiasm coming from so many corners where i wasn't feeling it before because for those who don't know who can explain this better than me the pitch clock yeah just that like it's totally it's like cut the length of games in half yeah so uh

Starting two or three years ago, there is now a pitch clock where pitchers have, I think it's like 18 seconds or something from the time that they receive the ball back to set and pitch. And it's now... There are now pitch clock violations. But it used to be that pitchers could just take all their sweet time in the world. And so sometimes like I would zone out, zone back in and.

Be like, oh, my God, we're still on the same batter. And it's been like 30 pitches and we've been here for half an hour. So the average length of games now is like two hours and 40 minutes. And it hasn't been that way in a really, really long time. I mean, I'm very upset about this. I want rules that make the baseball game three times as long.

I liked just having the radio on and you're like, it's Saturday and you're running errands and you've gone to Home Depot. You've gone to Target. Maybe you've ended a relationship. You've done all. All of you've adopted a cat. The game is only in the seventh inning. So I don't know. I'm not. I'm such a. I don't, there's so many new rules that I'm not on board with. I mean, I'll adapt and I have adapted, but I just, I don't know. I want it.

I loved the I just loved how it rolled out forever, you know, and that was like your evening, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It was unoptimizable in a way. And I think what they've done now is. they've actually over-optimized it in a way because the games go so fast. Like I went to a game on Father's Day, a Mariners game, and the game, like... Before I could like even eat my food, we're like, oh, we're in the seventh inning stretch, right? Like it just happened so fast. And so if people are...

Doing a whole thing like we drove down like it took forever. It took longer to get there than the game took. I'm not kidding. And so I think like I know I've heard that there's discussions about opening the park like an hour earlier.

than they already do, and even leaving it open later so that they can extend alcohol sales, because usually they cut off alcohol sales in the seventh inning, just to make the entire experience last longer. And I'm like, or you could just have the game last longer, but I get it.

But also, let's pause on this since we do have a question about rule changes later. But now I'm enraged. What am I supposed to do? Well, all... weigh in on Tessa's question because I feel like I have several of these hobbies that cause people to freak out one is being a fan of Taylor Swift and another is reading romance novels where people just feel like they can give me their visceral reaction um i feel like with baseball it's kind of a

backhanded compliment where it's like oh well i could never be into it because it's so boring but good for you for being able like people who are good at math you know where you're like oh well i'm so like good for you for being good at math Good for you for liking baseballs. Totally. No, I think that that's really true. That it's like...

Oh, you're a better sports fan than me because you like baseball instead of football or something like that. Right. But also it is rude. And if you're one of these people doing this, maybe... change your reaction to say oh what do you like about it yeah seriously i think someone's like oh i do this thing they're like oh that sucks yeah okay uh this next question i love it's from shelly When did baseball become so wrapped up in dad culture? Was it pre-field of dreams or was that the catalyst?

Do we think that baseball is still the sport of dads, or should it be dethroned by other more watched sports? Or is this all just a perspective I have that is not shared by most people? Allie, your newsletter is called DadBot. What is your perspective on this question? Wait, so the question she's asking is, are there more dads into baseball than other sports? Or the way I'm interpreting the question is like, in her mind, baseball is like incredibly dad.

in a way you know i think every sport is incredibly dead but there's something about it that feels even more peak dead um yeah And I conceive of myself as a dad. Lots of people can be dads. You don't have to be gendered male to be a dad. And I think that there is something like... stereotypically good dad, right? To me, football is bad dad culture and baseball is good dad culture. Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. I can see the t-shirt starting now already.

Hashtag good dad. Hashtag bad dad. Gosh. Wow. Okay. This is deep. I think. The first thing that comes to mind is I don't watch a ton of other sports. I mean, I dabble, but I don't do anything like baseball. But like, you know how baseball has like for Father's Day, they wear like.

light blue for and now it's like prostate cancer awareness day and it's so crazy although the mom's day is pink and that's breast cancer awareness like you can only just go to sadness when in celebrating a parent but um But do any of the other sports like have? No, I guess because they're not during that season.

Right. And they're also not playing a million games. Right. Right. Right. So they've got to change things up when you're playing every single day. Well, right. Dad, I, I'm going to, here's my hot take. And it's like a class take. Was it more affordable to be able to take your son to a baseball game than it would be to go to some of these other things? And it was like...

Yeah, I think that that's going to be my hot take on how baseball was like more for dads. And like, even like when like there's tropes in movies and you're trying to make your. gay son a man like you're playing catch in the backyard right with the baseballs like it's never a football it's always the baseball net so interesting i don't know i'm having so many feelings right now about like

It was actually my dad who got, wasn't my mom that got me into the Dodgers. So I guess so. And it was also like, so I just see it as like of when I came of age, like the, the. Vin Scully was the Dodger broadcaster and was just like always on. It was like he lived in our house. You know, it was like that was always on in the radio. So. I'm thinking about dad's commuting and like, it's like dad's friend is like the broadcaster. It's like the one guy that understands dad.

I think all of this is correct. The game I went to this year was on Father's Day. It was a sold-out crowd. It was because it was a beautiful day in Seattle on Father's Day, which happens very rarely.

the entire family went for the game which is something that's really hard to do for say a football game or a basketball game right even if it did happen on like a dad's birthday or something like the cost of taking your entire family to a game is prohibitive right whereas with baseball you know you can get nosebleeds and I don't know how much is a nosebleed these days I mean I think a lot of I think melody when you were talking about the five dollar day like when I

lived in san diego the padres always had a five dollar day and a family day in a lawn area and i think that they know that thank god you know what i mean they're like maybe the last sport that's like hey we'll try to make this affordable sometimes for people well the gnats were incredible and i will talk about this all day every day whenever anybody wants to talk about

getting more fans into baseball is that it was every single game, every single home game. If you showed up, I think it was two hours before the first pitch, there were tickets in a certain section of the nosebleeds for $5. So you had to buy them in person. But I would just go after work and then also hit up the like happy hour beer sales. So I would have like a really lovely evening for like $10 and a metro ride. Yeah. But I think also.

Part of the dadness of it is that it's a sport that lends itself to explaining. And because there are more breaks in play. and there's not as much screaming. Like, I can't imagine trying to, like, explain football to your kid at a football game. Like, there's just no time. And then, like, same with basketball. Just when, if you lean down to... tell them something, you're going to miss something. Yeah, that's true. There's like more time for connection. Yeah. Or mansplaining.

baseball the sport for mansplaining um it's so true that is such an interesting take i never thought about like actually like that part of it as a fan like that there is a lot of like just sort of like cracking a peanut open and you know gosh yeah i'm sad i'm too old like i i was born I wish I could have been at stadiums where you could just smoke cigarettes.

Like just sit there and just like smoke a pack of cigarettes during a game. Whenever someone's like, historically, you'd like to travel back to time to do something. I'm like, I just want to smoke and eat 50 seconds. hot dogs and spilled beer on my leg. You guys must know that famous picture of Keith Hernandez smoking in the dugout.

So it's like that to me also, like that era of baseball where they just had like a glass jar of like amphetamines in the dugout and downers, you know, that they were just like, you guys feeling a little low. from playing a hundred games. Or in your baseball card pictures, they all had like enormous choosing, you know, like their cheeks were just full.

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Our next question comes from Paige. I've been going to baseball games my whole adult life, really over 30 years. I enjoy baseball and there's always been other women at the games. But at some point there was this flip and a whole lot of women started showing up either in groups or with a partner with this whole baseball vibe cosplay thing going on. Team caps with bling, tiny tops with the team logo, makeup and hair totally done. And it's just like they are dressing up as a baseball fan.

I don't have any badness toward these gals. It just feels like there's a segment of the female population paying a whole lot of money to go to games for some kind of social capital outside of any real interest in the sport. It feels like a really expensive way to spend your time. I've watched this in real time, but I still can't figure out when it actually started. I have a theory. It's very sophisticated. It's all about Instagram.

This has been happening, though. Like, this was something that people did for College Game Day for a very long time. And I saw this in action when I went to University of Texas and that sort of thing. You have outfits that you wear to the pregame. What are they called?

guys i'm so excited at sports yeah tailgates and all that sort of thing uh and i think once you could like take pictures of yourself with your friends saying like this is what I'm doing today and like this is part of who I am like that's when it really amplified and it spread to baseball that's my theory melody what's your theory

I mean, I agree with you. I also just kind of bristle at the premise because who's to say that just because you're wearing a hat with bling on it that you're not an actual fan of the sport? Right. So I just want to say, yeah, like, like it's Paige who asked this.

yeah page i give you this olive branch like that that like it's like as someone who goes i might go to london for a week and then i'm like saying croissant you know like it's just sort of like you know I kind of become the world around me I like a little cosplay myself you know like I don't know why not you know like of all the things going on like if someone wants to wear

rhinestone Mets hat why not you know like I don't know I I don't am I coming down to live and let live in this area no no I think that that's fine and also the teams themselves have marketed to this yes like that has become a much bigger thing is like coming like a lot more merch that plays to people who want to wear like it used to be you couldn't like you just would wear

whatever clothes were available, like the jersey and men's size or whatever. But I think there's a lot more merch available. I own so many Mets hats. It's sick. It's like, what's your favorite? I sort of go in and out with them, but like, I, I just can't, like, I don't. I had a jersey at one point that had Mr. Met on the back. That was my player that I was standing for. But like, yeah, I don't know that. Yeah, the commercial part of like, that's probably like.

the popcorn at a movie theater right they're making so much merchandising and now that the in the last couple years all of these logos have been um have you noticed this you guys that like uh Supreme or like a clothing brand can use like MLB teams in there. There's been some sort of licensing situation now where anyone can use the logos and that sort of actually expanded this whole thing.

ashen part of it too yeah for sure uh we have uh i unearthed in our family's like i don't know weird boxes uh twins sweatshirt from the 1987 championship. game it's white and screen painted red and it was manufactured by the star tribune which is like the newspaper like the newspaper just gave it to anyone who had a subscription it's just like you could have a sweatshirt and it's so normie and good And Charlie, it's his size, my partner's size, and he never wears it. I'm like, gosh.

You can sell that for so much on eBay. That's what I'm thinking. Postmark that right now. Allie, do you have a Mr. Met tattoo or did I make that up? I do. I do.

Am I not supposed to mention that? No, I just like, it's like, it's a long, in the long list of like... why do you have that tattoo you know like uh of tattoos on my body yeah I got it this year there was like I had I sometimes sell my paintings, you know, and so I had posted a painting I did on Instagram and this person wrote to me and was like,

Also, it was the most insane. It was one of the most insane paintings I've ever made. And he was like, I'll trade you a tattoo for that. He's like learning to tattoo. And he's a big Dodger fan. And I was like, OK. And so he had offered me this like flash that he was doing. And I was like, I'd actually like maybe Mr. Met. And yeah, I went over to his house. put a Mr. Met tattoo. He's kind of like running happily and it's on my leg. It's really good. Okay.

The next questions are about fandom and they go together. So we'll play them back to back and then discuss. This first one comes from Rachel. I am a lifelong baseball fan. Go Mariners. And also a lesbian. And I recently had someone comment to me that they don't like baseball and they don't like going to Mariners games because it's not a queer sport. And it got me thinking about what makes baseball feel decidedly not like a queer sport. I live in a city with a super popular women's soccer team.

as well as the WNBA team. And those spaces do feel really different than going to a baseball game. So wondering what besides the gender of the players might make a sport feel more queer or attract more queer fans. Just generally.

curious about your thoughts on queerness and professional sports fandom. And the second question comes from Sarah Kay. I'm a new baseball fan as of this year. Let's go Mets. And I find baseball culture so fascinating. While it's seen as stereotypically American, male, patriotic, and heteronormative, I've found such joy in the women and online queer spaces and folk. I'm a designer in New York City.

And my progressive friend groups are shocked when I go on about how into baseball I am now, finding it so incongruent. Is there a way to expand the larger cultural perceptions of what a baseball fan looks like?

And how can we do that without all the online hate? Oh, there's so much happening here. But Allie, what are your thoughts when you hear this? Well, I mean, as someone who... I passed through the world often being mistaken as a man because of my gender presentation that I've had like a lot of, I feel like I've sat. in a lot of baseball stadiums, like kind of in weird, tense moments sometimes where there's like some drunken man fan that...

thinks I'm a man. And then it's like, Oh, you're not, you know, and like, and had like, kind of, just sort of like, moments of internal fear sometimes, especially later in the game when people get drunk and crazy, you know, and, and it's, it's, I never kind of realized like how much of that. I felt places. Cause I've got, I also go to a lot of baseball games alone. So.

But until I went to a WNBA game and an Angel City soccer game where WNBA games are like, it's like gayer than gay pride there. It's like so crazy that you're just like, wow, you kind of didn't realize. much you were just sort of uh uh internalizing in these other spaces that said uh that just from a fan experience and like like sort of like a just just that, that, but like, I don't necessarily think of soccer as more queer or baseball as less queer. I mean, they all feel, I, maybe I'm just.

I think for me, the moments that like my favorite baseball player was John Olerud, who was a Mets player who played first base. He actually played for Seattle, too. But like he went to the Mets and he wore a helmet on on first base when he played.

space because he got a brain aneurysm and he promised his mom like he would always wear a helmet which I it just endeared him to me and I just like put all this stuff on him and I was like I love John Olerud and then I was like read his wikipedia and it was like oh he's like an evangelical i was just sort of like i have these moments where i was like oh would the people that i love so much love me so much you know what i mean and like that

to me is like, so like I'm putting all my hopes and dreams on the New York Mets who probably are like, you know, there's always someone on the team who doesn't want to have the gay pride day. or refuses to wear the hat or like it they are you know is very conservative so I get it but like I I think like for myself like I want to

there's almost like nothing I love more than watching baseball. So I'm going to try to like get in there and enjoy the space as much as I can. That's sort of where I'm coming at it. Right. I do think that. Rachel kind of hit on a couple of things in her question that if you love a sport, there's the WNBA. There is. women's soccer which is really taking off but there's it's very hard to do that with baseball specifically like there's

Just now there's a women's baseball league forming, which I've been getting a lot of TikTok content on, which is really exciting. But I think there just aren't as many spaces that are as welcoming in the baseball community. But I do think that is changing. And especially, like Sarah Kay points out, especially online, where so many more people are able to create a platform that's for fans like them.

Well, and I mean, we didn't point out the very obvious difference between like we're talking about women's basketball, like the WNBA, like the people who are playing are women. Right. That's what I mean. Yeah. You can say, well, soccer is a queer sport. Yes, because there is like.

a lot of queer people watching women's soccer and basketball is more queer because they're people watching women's basketball like i'm not phrasing this very eloquently but there just is not the equivalent in baseball yet Well, and I would, I mean, people could argue with me, but I think that like these spaces are actually very like...

homoerotic they can be very gay you know just because it's not very public doesn't mean that they're not very gay and then sometimes there's also the argument that like if I'm a queer person and I watch this sport like this is a queer like I'm queering the sport Does that make sense? Yeah. I wish.

I wish I was queering the sport more. My problem is baseball's made me heterosexual because I love Mr. Met so much. So now, like, who am I? It's like the opposite thing has happened to me. But Mr. Met is like a queer icon, right?

So sexy and I don't appreciate the... them forcing um mrs met as now this like big figure and i'm just like back off he did why did they have to marry him off like that it's like it's so it's so silly like you just not need to have a partner no keep him on the market he could be a like a cary grant bachelor they did this they did this okay i'm so excited to talk about the the really like

nitty-gritty of the sport this is for the real nerds out here so and this is also about the experience of the games let's hear from Esther I'm curious about the culture of chirping in baseball I went for the first time to a couple of games for our local team this summer in the West Coast League.

And at one of the game, there were some guys sitting behind us calling out some hilarious chirps like, Hey, 84, I bet you don't even have a favorite dinosaur, you bum. What are some of the best chirps you've heard? How common is this across baseball fan communities? How do the players feel about this? Where did this come from?

Okay, someone tell me more about this, because I kind of understand it, but I don't think I've heard it in person. Maybe I just haven't gone to enough games. It's like they're roasting the players, but in a very obscure way, right? Is that right? Yeah. I've never heard the term chirping, but I remember being at a Mets game and who was the... the comedian who had the puppet lamb chop sherry lewis or yeah yeah yes yeah there was a baseball player

His last name was Lewis and someone was making like lamb shop, like roasts at like them. And I was just like, wow, deep cut. Like it's kind of great, you know, but. Yes, I mean, I feel like you're lucky if you get something that creative going on, opposed to like, you bum, you know, or whatever. Bobby told me he heard one the other day that was like, hey, Gritchick, I hear you run your cast iron through the dishwasher.

Well, and, you know, you can hear them because there is like moments of quiet in the game. Right. And that's part of the rhythm of the game. It's not like it gets like. there's a cheer and then it's quiet and that's part of what i love about listening to baseball too right it's like that rhythm of like cheer quiet like the the announcer being like all set for the you know whatever um

But you couldn't do that at a football game. Yes, which brings us back to maybe baseball's the queerest sport with the chirping. The most creative. You're trying to make the other fans laugh. It's not even necessarily for the player. Or make the player laugh. Yeah.

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I keep them from getting the medical care that they need. Like I still haven't found a dentist yet. I need to just get on ZocDoc and find a dentist. I need a... podiatrist because i'm pretty sure i have plantar fasciitis and have been suffering for like 10 months okay well we're gonna get you on talk talk make a pact

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That's Z-O-C-D-O-C.com slash culture. ZocDoc.com slash culture. Okay, next question is from Katie.

Why is there so much low-stakes nonsense at baseball games? The walkout songs, mascots chasing each other around the bases, weird songs. Don't get me wrong, I love it. But who's it for? What purpose does it serve? Okay, so first examples, favorite examples of low stakes nonsense. I'm on board with low stakes nonsense. I don't think we need as much.

I don't need... I like the ball hidden under the cap that you have to pick. Where did the ball go? You know, where they do the cap shuffle on the big jumbotron. I don't need, like... i don't need a graphic all the time on the on the jumbotron between like every inning like a game or like that's where I start to feel a little bit like oh we're all so addicted to screens we have to see stuff all the time like yeah taco truck racing you know whatever no I don't

That stuff actually really annoys me. I don't need the Jumbotron. Is that weird? Yeah. I love it. I love it. And I love when people get put on the Jumbotron. Everybody is so excited. Yeah, I like that. When the Royals do the kiss cam, they always end on like the oldest couple they can find. And it's like two 95 year olds kissing and the entire stadium just erupts in applause. Have you been on the Jumbotron ever, Melody, or Anne? Yes. One time, just...

I was just like shown and I was just taken aback because it's like, oh, that's what I look like from afar. But the other time I got to do one of the games. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, it was like the pre one of the. pre-game games and it was like family feud style and i won wow I have definitely not been on the Jumbotron. I will say, okay, what I don't like are like the, I don't know, like Microsoft graphic, like weird, like emoji reactions essentially that they put like as interstitials just to like.

distract people but i do like small children having to like run around the field yes at various points at ours it's in hot dog costumes and there's always one that falls and it just makes me want to start weeping because the whole stadium is like oh and they're gonna think about that for the rest of their lives oh no i love that the brewers have don't they have like a sausage race like it's

different bratwursts like the going around the um oh and pittsburgh does pierogies i think oh it's great i love that The Nationals do racing presidents. I love like weird, like I love Homer hankies because I'm a Twins fan at the very original. I don't know what that is. A Homer hankie? Yeah, me neither. What? Okay, so a Homer hanky is, they're just hanky. Like people would use, they used to just take out their handkerchiefs when people had handkerchiefs and just like, like.

I don't know, wave them around to try to get a homer, like at Twins games. And they started giving out hankies that were in... blazed with like the the logo so everyone would have them so like at the games it would just be like a whole sea of these hankies that they're they're white and blazed with red wait you wave it after a homer or like just like it's basically like

let's get riled up like it's like okay okay it's like a rally towel yes it's like a rally towel but it's a hanky which is very minnesota for some reason uh i don't like racist things like the tomahawk chop. No. I don't like... Oh, I love like the seventh inning stretch. Like I love the ritual stuff. Yeah, I love anytime the whole stadium is singing a song. Yeah. I love walk up songs that.

have like a call and response element to them. Like there was a Nats player. It was the catcher. He still plays Wilson Ramos, but. His song ended with the whole stadium going, Wilson. I just love it. And I did a little Googling of like, where does this come from? And it's. Basically, the in-game entertainment is as old as the sport itself. That there's just always been people goofing around in between innings.

The Francisco Lindor has had this year, like his walk up song was my girl. And the whole audience or the whole stadium would sing. Because it gets cut off the next few verses of it, which is sweet. I love it. I love walk-up songs as a principle because it allows you to individuate the players a lot more effectively than...

I think other sports do besides ones like, I don't know, golf where you're like only rooting for one person. Right. Like it just like people stick out. It's a very effective celebrity tactic in my head.

But can I ask, Allie, how did you fall in love with Mr. Matt? I mean, how do you not fall in love with Mr. Matt is the question. I think it's almost like how I used to. It's like. He reminds me of a great aunt I had. Yes. She never said anything. So you could just project all of this kindness and sweetness on her. And I think there's something about that, about Mr. Met, you know, and mascots in general, that you're just like...

The shape of... This could be a three-hour podcast. My projections and feelings about Mr. Met. But I think, A, he seems humble. I think he's just sort of like... a decent guy. That's how I feel about Mr. Matt. He, he shows up, he's honest. He's like, he works hard. And, um, He's the future of America. I just have to like if people have people for some reason don't know Mr. Met. What Ali is describing is a person with a giant baseball as a head.

And the baseball has eyes and a nose and a mouth. And so all of her romantic feelings about Mr. Met are for an anthropomorphized baseball person. Okay. Okay, Melody. No, I am not dragging you. I feel a little drag. Some visualization. Unlike some mascots, like the Philly Fanatic, Mr. Matt, there's a sort of like... He's the guy that when you call, you need help moving a couch, he shows up. I'm not counting on the Philly fanatic to show up and help. That guy's in a bar. His energy is too chaotic.

Mr. Met is like, he's humble. If I need to go to chemo, you know who's driving me? Mr. Met. He's there. He's there by my side through it all. i did i don't know if i told you i applied to be mr matt yes like that like the i was out of work for the like uh writers strike and like the Mets, I saw they were hiring a Mr. Met, no less than 10 people sent me the link. And I was like, you know what?

I'm going to apply. And I knew actually Gary Carter's son, who Gary Carter, the famous Mets catcher, has a son. And anyway, I met him and I asked him. Do I know him well? No. Did that stop me from asking him to put in a good word for me to be Mr. Matt? It did not. But my rejection letter came within like...

Like 22 hours of submitting the resume. I physically couldn't do it. I've had too many surgeries to do. Like you have to... like run up the stadiums you have to be kind of like acrobatic in a way you have a ball on your head yes in 105 degree heat like also actually part of the things about part of the job qualifications were not just that but like there was a whole thing about needing to know microsoft suite i was like

Mr. Matt has to like sit down at the keyboard with his giant hands and like make a schedule. And just do spreadsheets. So crazy. Mr. Matt has to take Zoom calls. I know what?

With that on. Okay. All right. We have to talk about what's going on within the MLB. Melody really wanted to talk about this question. This comes from Emery. I love baseball and I watch and listen to nearly every game for my team and it's a 162 game season. It's super long. Are there people phased by how omnipresent sports betting content is now? My favorite baseball podcast even is sponsored by a sports betting company and odds regularly appear on.

I thought baseball would hold out since it's such a purist sport. It's really bizarre to me. And I don't think we talk about enough the impact that sports betting is having on the whole.

ecosystem of sports in general, especially the media ecosystem and how much of the content that is being produced about sports is literally sponsored and produced by sports betting companies. They own entire stadiums now. And when I was a kid, not that long ago, Betting in sports, especially baseball, was a reason to get blacklisted, where now it's literally the source of our information.

Ali, have you encountered this? Yes. I have some thoughts on it, but I would love to hear yours first. I don't like it, of course. Like, I don't like it. I do know that sports betting is the fastest growing gambling addiction. not to be a downer, but like what, you know, when you live in New York, you can get those, uh, I forget what the sports betting draft Kings and stuff like that, you know? And, um, uh, I just.

Of course, they're going to support it because of dumb money and capitalism and all that, you know. But it bums me out. It bums me out. just in a bigger sense about, like, my whole family lived in Las Vegas for 30 years, you know, so I just think, like, there's a special kind of... cocktail of of of desperation and that intersects with gambling that just it only ends in one place which is like a really bummer place you know i'm not talking about occasional bets i'm talking like

People can just so quickly fall into this online. It's on your phone. You're betting. There's live. betting options throughout the game. I just feel like when all of those decisions are connected to like a smartphone and a bank account, it just is. You're not even having to walk to the ATM in a casino. You know, there's no limits. It's just a bummer to me. It really bothers me since Pete Rose is such a controversial figure in baseball.

we don't have enough time for me to rant about Pete Rose, but I don't feel like you can ban him from the Hall of Fame and then also not confront the scandals that are happening in the Guardians this year with two of their relief pitchers. throwing certain pitches to win micro bets. Two of their pitchers are changing the way they play the game in order to win money. I was at one of those games.

the like where the the pitches like that's what happened yeah where there was a grand slam i don't think it was related to one of those pitches so yeah to me it's like selling like the car for parts like it just it atomizes the game and makes people focus on these like small like I don't know, like money ball type things that are very, they're just like, they distract you from the whole of the game, which is the culture, right? Like...

When you start focusing on baseball for the stats in that way, it just it changes the feel of it. Does that make sense? Yeah, I just get bummed in the in the bigger sense of like just preying on. poor people or preying on desperate people or not, or just preying on people, you know, like, I just don't like, like, even if you were like.

There was some limit to like, I just feel like it's very hard for me to be excited about that in any way. I feel the same way about these like online digital bets as I do about like crypto. I think that it preys on the same people and it exploits the same impulses and it just fucking sucks. Do either of you have a thesis on like the rise of sports betting?

intersecting with like male loneliness or like masculinity in 2025 like I feel like there's something there that I can't quite articulate but it's Like, there's a billboard in Kansas City that just says, your wife is mad about the gambling only because you lose. And like, yeah, I mean, I assume they're not.

talking to lesbians or other people married to women i assume they're talking to straight men making sports bets what if it was all for lesbians then i would be fine with it it would be really good I mean, I do think that there's this, I have a lot to say about gambling as I've done like a lot in my life and stuff. And like, it's, there is something about like. That idea that you can change your whole fate in a day. Like I just remember living in Brooklyn and like I had a girlfriend that like.

we'd go to the otb and stuff you know and we were like waitresses and like the idea that you could change your entire fate in a day if you like hit the right thing hit the right horse and like It's just so and then you don't. So then you're like in the hole and you got to like now you really got it. It's just such a spiral down.

Yeah. And it plays on like our vulnerabilities and our precarity and all sorts of like, and our hopes and dreams. Right. I, so Melody, I think actually like there's an interesting.

There's two things happening because I think that people play men who are in fantasy leagues are actually like... with bonding with friends like that's something that you do with friends and then this is like an offshoot and maybe that overtakes like the thing that you do for fun with friends yeah I think there's definitely something there I think

The rise in sports betting definitely has its origins in fantasy. And... almost like well if i'm paying this much attention to it anyways like i might as well put a little extra money on the side but i just don't really understand like i don't want to sound like a scold and like i don't know how much of my like tea totally inherited

is at play here but I just don't understand like we don't have commercials for cigarettes we have very strict restrictions around advertising alcohol and like we know that gambling addiction is like very serious and can very quickly ruin people's lives and i just don't understand why we seem to be like a little more okay with that yeah i don't know it's like but i don't also like drinking has

gone down like fewer people are drinking and so maybe this is just the new vice no they're all taking gummies well yeah Yeah, I mean, I think that probably in 50 years, there's going to be very different regulations around this. But it's also very Trumpy, if you think about it. Oh, for sure. Yeah.

Like it's the sort of vice that Trump is okay with because it makes money for him specifically. Whereas he can like talk shit about anyone who has a drink of alcohol. Exactly. Okay. The last question is about the future of the MLB. And this comes from Sarah.

Major League Baseball has changed a lot of rules lately, supposedly to make the game more exciting or better for casual fans. But most actual fans I know dislike many of the changes, such as the ghost runner in extra innings. So what gives? Who are these changes serving and how is baseball relating to casual or new fans versus more serious fans? Okay, can someone explain the Ghost Runner, please?

Happily, happily. So again, unhappily, I, the ghost runner, they couldn't, this is crazy. And they put an actual ghost. On second base. No, they don't. No, they don't. Okay. They don't. No, but it's like if a game is tied in the, like that, the bottom, they go through nine innings and it's tied. Then they start the 10th inning with a runner on.

second base as if and it's not a ghost it's a real it's a real person it's a real person and I I hate this rule it's like the idea is like so you don't go like 20 innings and extra innings you're just starting Each team gets an advantage with someone already on base so that they can score, you know, kind of more quickly and speed things along. But I think out of all the rules that have changed, like.

That's the one that I just, I don't want to, and I feel myself getting used to it, and I don't want to get used to it. I just really don't like it. I love Endless Extra Innings. Yeah. That's the best. Yeah. I also was just reading that this new rule has completely upset the idea of home field advantage because the...

The first team that goes at the top of the 10th is the visiting team, and they start with a runner on second. So all they need, like if the runner is really fast, like a well-placed single or a double, and then they're up. And so... the actual odds of who wins in extra innings has flipped. Interesting. Going back to what we were talking about at the beginning of the episode, I actually love the pitch clock because I think it makes the pitchers.

work harder. Or I think it really it really tests the athleticism of the pitcher because they don't have as much time to like shake it out between pitches. So I don't know. And I do like getting home within three hours. Sorry. Nope. If it was up to me, the new baseball rules would be the pitcher and the batter would each have to read Swan's way. Bye.

and when they completed the book and talked about it completely, they could start. I don't like the new rule where you... can if you're wanting to intentionally walk a pitcher you just point to first base and yeah that's lazy it's so dumb there was so many moments in games where like the

the pitcher would get the yips, you know, and like have to throw those four pitches and like fuck up and throw it to the, the backstop or something. So yeah, I don't know. Yeah, no, I, uh, I think that the counterpoint I would make to the argument that real fans don't like the pitching clock and that sort of thing is that I think that I felt...

Like I didn't have time for baseball for a long time because like I could only fit in a couple of games. Whereas now that the games are shorter, like I feel like I can have them on more and I can be participating more. And I know that that's, for me, the casual fan. but casual casual fans can become more serious exactly every serious fan started as a casual fan so i feel like if you're introducing more entry points yeah yeah that and i i looked this up

that attendance is up at MLB games for the third year in a row, and it had been experienced in a dip. So the changes are helping the longevity of the game. Yeah. And like the saddest thing to me was all the like baseball is dying stories that were happening like, I don't know, 10 years ago or something like that. Yeah. Nope. Nope.

I will say I was so opposed to the designated hitter and I still am because I just think it's so much more fun to make pitchers bat. Yes. So I am sad about the designated hitter becoming league wide. Also, it's like when a pitcher would hit a home run, what a feat. I know. Maybe the hardest thing in any sport. Okay, well, so Ali already said that.

she would make them read Swan's Way before they could pitch. That would be her change to the game. Is there, Melody or Allie, you can have an additional change. What would you add to the game if you could? Like another rule. I know I wrote this question, but I wasn't really thinking about my answer. Well, I mean, my changes wouldn't necessarily be at the rule level. They would be $5 tickets. They would be public transportation to and from the parks.

I love going to Royals games, but we cannot get there. cannot get in and out without spending at least a hundred dollars like for tickets for parking if we want to get snacks and then just like the time it takes to get there to get out of the parking lot it is a pain so i think

I mean, $100 is cheap compared to the Mets. That's what I'm like. Unless you're on the seven train. Right. Well, okay. Like compared to my $5 Nationals games is always going to be my frame of reference. Of course. So I was spoiled. No, but it's all like, it's all. so crazy um I would ready ready for my hottest take yet yeah yeah if I could change a rule I would maybe have to there has to be one woman on the team

And you have to be nice to her. Niceness violations. My one rule would be that you can't make the food less fancy at the ballpark. i just i don't need it i don't need you don't want sushi you don't want well seattle i'm fine with it like seattle is the one place where you can get you can have sushi i think um

I love weird ballpark. Like, I'm not necessarily going to eat it, but I love seeing what they come up with. Yeah, but, like, they're just too fancy. Like, I don't... Okay, then don't order it. I know, but I just think there should only be hot dogs. Yeah, you can get your dollar dog night. That's fine. Yeah, yeah. The lines are like, part of it was that this game that I went to this year because it was Father's Day and sold out.

They just weren't manned up for, like, the lines that they had. They were like, we haven't had a crowd like this in June since, like, I don't know. They've never had a crowd like that in June. and so they're like the lines were so long and i was like all i want is one beer um but i There are some things that I just love that I would never want to change because it's part of the ritual. Like I love that they start at like weird times, right? Like 7.05 or whatever. And I love that.

Fake organ. Oh, that would be my change. Every stadium has to have a real organ. Yeah. No, I like that. I actually just thought of a real rule I would change. I think the automatic double is stupid. What's the automatic double? The automatic double is if you hit the ball.

It's a fair ball still in the field, but then something happens to the ball. Like, it bounces into the stands or it gets stuck in the ivy at Wrigley. Like, I just think that... should be one of the freak things that can happen in a game and you just get a home run yeah but instead now when that happens it's you just get two bases no that's stupid

You want them to have to climb into the stands and get the ball? Is that what the... I mean, that would definitely be fun. But I just think it should count as a home run. If something silly happens, it should have a fun payoff. Yeah. I get it. Allie, any last changes? Maybe if the pitcher intentionally hits the batter with a pitch, that the batter's allowed to then just...

Try to intentionally hit the pitcher. With the baseball? Yes, yes. No, with the baseball, not the bat. Like, it's just like, okay. Throws it back. Yeah, yeah. And then that's it. There's no bench clearing. Oh, I love the bench.

I love a brawl. Okay, so playoffs notwithstanding, and your team's not being in the playoffs notwithstanding, what player are you most excited about for next year? I want Pete Alonzo to remain a Met. Last year, he was like, they weren't sure. And his nickname's the Polar Bear. And he's up for, he had a one-year contract extended. And I just feel like.

To me, he is really the new David Wright. He's the heart of the Mets, and he's been there so long, and he's such a fan favorite, and I would be sad if he wasn't a Met anymore. Ali, while we were recording, I got an MLB notification that Pete Alonzo says he's going to test free agency again. So, I mean, there's still a chance that the Mets make him an offer he can't refuse. Yeah.

Melody, who are you excited about? Man, the Royals have so many fun players right now. And their struggle is just putting it all together in a way that scores runs. But Bobby Witt Jr. Is just so much fun to watch. He's so fast. He is the hit leader for the whole MLB. And his name is Bobby. Well, yeah, I mean, that's the number. It is really fun when the whole stadium starts going, Bobby, Bobby. That's Melody's husband. Oh, okay, okay. Love an adult Bobby. He's just...

He's so fun to watch. And then our catcher, Salvador Perez, is also putting together a really strong case for a Hall of Fame career. And I just will love him forever. And then I'm also just really... actually in love with Shohei Otani so I just want to see whatever he does of course I loved talking baseball with you thank you for putting up with my casual fandom and Allie, if people want to find more of your work, including your paintings, which I love, where can they find you on the internet?

My substack, dad bod, but I also have a painting Instagram that is friend of ducks. That's great. Not Mr. Met? Is Mr. Met taken? Mr. Met is my profile picture. So you can find me easily there. And see some actually Mr. Met paintings. Yes. Thank you again. This has been such a pleasure. So fun. And thank you Melody for being such a big part of this episode. Oh, thank you. I loved it.

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