Hi, it's Anne coming to you with an update on the shows we're working on. And guess what? We need your questions for all of these. I have regretfully abandoned my dream of a Paul Mescal episode, and we're broadening it out to the general Irishification of pop culture. We have a very special guest for this one. who obviously is Irish, and I cannot wait for it. She's the author of a book that is...
Highly recommended in all of the culture study threads. So let us know your questions and hot takes on the Irish vacation so that we can talk about it. We're also recording an episode about contemporary ideas of self-care, how it gets talked about, what gets missed. what you're totally sick of hearing about self-care, especially over the course of the last four years. I know you all have lots to say and lots to ask. And we've also got an episode in the works on dad culture.
media representation of dads, the chosen identities of dads. Our guest for this is someone who's teaching a class on the history of dad culture going back to the 19th century. So it's going to be amazing. And the last one I want to flag for now is our episode on getting into old movies. This one's with culture study fave Margaret Willison, and we've got some good practical and philosophical questions already.
But now we need your request for recommendations. This is how we're going to do it. You submit your three favorite movies released in the last 20-ish years, along with any general likes and dislikes, if you want to add those. And we'll tailor some classic Hollywood recs just for you. Oh, and finally, we need your questions for the Ask Anne Anything segment.
Nothing is too big or small. You can ask about like, how do I find good linens? I mean, we can talk about that. Or you can ask like big philosophical questions. What matters is that there's something that you have been pondering. you need advice on, either from me, the co-host, Melody. We kind of decide who's going to answer the questions based on the questions themselves. And it's one of my favorite parts of the show, but we can't do it unless you submit those questions. As always,
All of these questions and ideas for future episodes go to tinyurl.com slash culturestudypod. And if you're a paid subscriber, you can find the link to this special submission form in the Substack version of the show notes. Okay, on to the show. What is your primary sense memory of thrifting? I think it's definitely, I would say touch. I probably started thrifting in the late aughts. I'm a millennial, so I was a teenager.
I just remember going through the racks and touching everything. And that was like such unique experience because I feel like you don't know what you're going to find. So touching things was like the primary way that something stood out, whether it was like a soft. or warm sweater or jeans that felt like really thick denim. That was like a big thing for me for sure. And I still think when I'm thrifting, that's the primary.
I mean, you can see some of that by visuals now, especially with the kinds of things that are in thrift stores. But it's still at the end of the day, like I really don't feel like I know what I'm looking for until I touch it. This is the Culture Study Podcast, and I'm Anne Helen Peterson. And I'm Kelsey Vlamis. I'm a senior reporter with Business Insider. What was your primary thrift store when you're growing up? Oh, it was a Goodwill. I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago, and it was a Goodwill.
10 minutes from my parents' house. And it was, it was great. Like, I just have such positive memories of leaving there with always leaving there with something that I loved. And it's just, yeah. Mine was Goodwill in my hometown. And then in my college town, there were like four. thrift stores just like within walking distance in the little downtown that were always filled with wonders and i think that like for me a lot of the memory of it was um like thick polyesters
of like from the 1970s and like things that were probably kind of approximating almost like a Chanel jacket, but like that were at the thrift store. And lots of like muumus because... When I think about a thrift, like when I was first accessing thrift stores in the 90s, a lot of what was arriving there were clothes from the 80s and the 70s. And then so you were trying to find something.
At least like at a specific point in time for me, when I was like in the mid 90s, you're trying to find stuff like old flannels. First, you raided your dad's closet and then you went to Goodwill and you got all the old flannels that were there or. Oh, yeah. Like cool.
uh 70s style skirts or the other thing that we only would wear as jokes would be like 80s prom dresses which were always in abundance oh yeah and then when I was in college I found like one year for a pop stars party I was Tiffany from the 1980s 80s and I found like an outfit that I swear would go for a thousand dollars now that was like peg legged trousers with stirrups and suspenders and then like a pink bodysuit mock neck and then a pink
blossom hat like blossom the the tv character um yeah so i i have so many really fond memories of finding everyday clothes costume clothes all sorts of things and i think The reason we want to do this episode is because a lot of people have similar memories and feel that the process of thrifting has changed pretty profoundly over the course of, let's say, like...
Five, 10 years? What do you think? What's the time frame in your mind? Yeah, I would say 10 to 15, maybe it would go back. I think five, the past five years, it's been pretty rapid. Like the popularity of thrifting has increased. so much in the past five years that it's basically mainstream, especially for Gen Z, but just generally speaking. Yeah.
And yeah, I mean, I have the same kind of memories of, you know, a flannel. It's funny you say flannel. Some of the oldest things in my closet are flannels that I've had since I was like 14 that I thrifted. But yeah, it has it has really changed and the popularity has exploded is the main thing, but also just the way that.
What new clothes are on the market has also changed pretty dramatically in the past like 15 to 20 years. So I think it kind of followed that naturally as far as like the growth of fast fashion specifically. Yeah. A lot of the things that I used to find at thrift stores were actually handmade. Yeah, wow. And that probably has something to do with where I grew up, which was a pretty rural place. But that stuff was made to last.
Right. Oh, yeah. But I was also always thrilled to find like a gap sweatshirt for ten dollars or something like that. Yeah. What are the ways if we can kind of like put into buckets the ways that thrifting has. become more popular and gotten worse at the same time yeah so i i guess it's good to define the difference between thrifting and I guess how you define thrifting. So I think of thrifting as going to this traditional thrift store where people dump like a...
box full of clothes they're just trying to get rid of. That's like a Goodwill or Salvation Army. And then when you go there as a shopper, you kind of are looking through these like really broad categories like women's tops or. men's jeans it's like okay what does that mean it could be anything it could be anything any size uh but today a lot of especially gen z when they say thrifting they just mean buying something second hand which is so interesting to me so interesting to me
Because it's such a different experience, right? Like I remember being in college and looking for high-waisted vintage Levi's. And that was like such, that was such a, like a hunt, you know, you'd go.
to the thrift store, you'd look through everyone in the rack, you'd try a bunch on, none of them were the perfect fit. It was like difficult. And now, you know, I can find vintage Levi's online in my size and the exact cut and style I want with just a quick Google search. And I'm paying more than if I found them at the thrift store, but I can.
find them very easily. So that to me is not thrifting, at least in the traditional sense that I think of it. So I think there has been a huge growth in secondhand and thrifting at thrift stores. Absolutely. Part of the reason that thrifting at traditional what I think of traditionally as thrift stores has gotten worse is because of how big the secondhand market has gotten. And that's, you know, sites like Poshmark and.
And ThredUp and Depop and the RealReal. And also just like people, individuals who are just like selling, you know, not necessarily resellers who are making a business out of it, but they just are like, I don't need these boots anymore. And if I sell them, I'll have money to buy other boots. Yeah. So. Secondhand generally has gotten huge. And because of that, the traditional thrift store experience has gotten a little bit worse for shoppers.
So it's a supply problem in two different ways then, right? Supply because there's less supply because people are going to sell their items at the secondhand market instead of just donating. And then it's supply. in terms of the quality of the items that are being donated. Right. And especially, you know, a lot of people might still drop off their clothes at Goodwill if they're like lower quality clothes. But if you have something that's like higher quality.
You can sell it on Facebook Marketplace to like a neighbor very easily. Yeah. And make a little bit of money off of it. So not only are. People buying the nice stuff up from thrift stores to then resell it. Less night stuff is going to thrift stores, specifically the stuff that is making it to thrift stores is the stuff that's like cheaper and people don't think they're really going to make money reselling. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, like they know that if you brought that to, say, Buffalo Exchange, that they would be like, we'll give you a dollar for this. Yeah, exactly. Or they won't even take it. And that's even become a problem. My my brother was just saying he tried to drop off a bunch of clothes at Goodwill and they were like, we don't take anything after 11 a.m. Like this just happened in like two weeks ago because they just had to make a cutoff because they were getting so much clothes dropped off there.
So, you know, he couldn't even get rid of his clothes at a donation center, which was like a very confusing experience. Um, what's the name of that site where I'm blanking on it, the site where they send you like a bag and then you put all your clothes in the bag and then they price it and tell you how much they priced it. And then they're like, you can either accept this.
Or go fuck yourself. Yes, I know. I can't think of the name right now. Thread up. Thread up. Thread up. Yeah. Thread up. The hard thing about these places is that people are desperate. to do something with their clothes and this seems like a good idea but i also think people like have this new idea and it has to like it's all connected to even like the idea that you should be monetizing your hobbies too that like that you should always be making money
Off of things that you have in your possession in some way. Yeah, definitely. That if somehow you that there's like a. I don't know. There's it says something negative about your productivity if you're not somehow maximizing the value of your totally. Yeah. Like if you just give things away, even on Facebook, like and I like I gave a dress that I had.
bought and never wore it never fit me quite right but it fit my friend perfectly I was like it's yours and there was a little part of me that was like Oh, you should have asked her for $20. This is my friend. Like, just give her the dress. Yeah. Yeah, it's like $20. That's not, you don't need $20. Who cares?
No, I totally feel that, though. And I feel that it's funny because it is an exchange of like time, too, because I instead of donating something, I would like I should sell this thing. But then I'm like, well, what kind of like time? an effort on my part is going to take to sell it. If I donate it, maybe someone will end up with it who needs it more than if I try to sell it to somebody. So. So I think we should also talk a little bit about.
Who was thrifting 20 years ago compared to now? Like who is thrifting for? Because I think that's something that like there are these nebulous ideas that like. you know if you donate clothes it's for people who can't afford other clothes like and i don't think that's necessarily the case like how do you work through all of this in your mind Totally. One way to think about it is, and I had a professor who studies the resale market and thrifting describe this to me that she thinks of.
thrift shoppers um broadly in two categories which is need-based shoppers and trend-based shoppers and so need-based shoppers just what it sounds like people who maybe need something it's out of their budget they go to the thrift store to find a more affordable app
option. And then there's trend-based shoppers, which I think you're getting more into these like trendy Gen Z thrifters who are scanning for something really special. They're just looking for something that's really on trend or really unique. The proportion of trend-based shoppers has exploded. You know, 15 years ago, the majority of people at a thrift store would have been considered need-based. And now that's almost inverted, like, and it's expected to get more balanced out as well.
thrifting continues to grow in popularity. Um, so the problem with that, I guess, is that, and you know, I should, I should specify needs-based shoppers don't necessarily need to buy all of their clothes at a thrift store, but maybe they need a new dress or a new suit for a job interview. Something that's just like a big purchase item in a thrift store.
store was traditionally a really good option for that. Now, it's not necessarily because of these trend-based shoppers and resellers, so people who are selling, specifically going to the restores to find clothes to sell to other people as a side gig. Yeah. they're kind of picking over like the highest quality goods at the thrift store. And so it leaves very little for need-based shoppers. And to the point where, you know.
It might be cheaper, easier, more accessible to just buy like a fast fashion version for a need based shopper. Yeah. Like go to Walmart and then you get to at least have more choices and a size that works for you and a color that you like and all that. Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. Like it's kind of amazing the level of like even like looking at Amazon, even just like what you can buy at the price points. And, you know, they're not the highest quality, but they might serve your purpose, you know, in the short term. The problem with that is.
is that those clothes don't last very long. And so there's this like old economics theory called the boots theory, which is the idea that, you know, lower income folks have to buy cheaper boots, which don't last as long. So they have to replace them more often. So like ultimately it may be like a worse.
like worse financially for them, but short term, they have to buy the more affordable options. So I think it is becoming a bit of like a little bit of a problem, just in a sense that like needs based shoppers can't get those higher quality goods at the thrift store anymore.
And I don't know if there's like a great solution for that. I mean, as long as like vintage is growing and resellers are growing, that that problem seems like that's going to keep occurring, compounded by the fact that there's less quality goods to begin with in thrift stores than there were 15 years ago. Right. And it's not like you can like legislate like you have to show a certain income to be able to shop at Goodwill.
Right. Yeah. Goodwill doesn't want that either. No. So just so that we also have like some terms defined to start with, when we think about thrifting, there is the national and local thrift stores. that are dealing primarily with donations. There's also like vintage shops, which are like a different sort of thrifting, right? Like a vintage shop is like much more curated. much more expensive in my experience. Yes. And then Facebook Marketplace, eBay, Poshmark, ThredUP, all secondary market stuff.
And then, you know, the other thing that I've seen more and more of and you talk about in your piece are companies that are hosting resale markets on their sites. So I was just looking at Patagonia. They have like a really robust one of what they call worn wear.
I know Anthropologie has one, lots of other places. How do those places work? Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, so there used to be not necessarily resale, but I mean, like out in malls used to be like products that couldn't sell. Right. Or they just had like too much of.
them yeah um and i think some brands are realizing they can like capitalize on this whole resell trend by kind of hosting their own reselling yes but then also just like moving product that's like extra product but it's like cheaper it's in the brand's best interest to
sell their own products on their site because they realize people are going to sell them anyways so like why don't we sell them associated more closely with our brand to get people into our brand um it's also an entry point like if you're reselling I think there was a while where brands thought the resale market was going to take away from people buying new clothes. And I think what they realized is that.
Maybe someone buys their first item from a more expensive brand in the resale market, but then they're now interested and invested in that brand. So it may make them a customer of the new product in the future as well. In many cases, it is in a brand's best interest to host the resale of their own products on their site, which is interesting. And also allows them to brand themselves as sustainable. Yeah.
Yes, but also it helps make you money. Yeah, absolutely. Definitely a bonus. I think like specifically with Patagonia that obviously feeds so directly into their environmental branding and practices. Yeah, that's a huge part of it. Yeah. We have to get into the questions now before we answer all the questions just in our discussion. Okay, let's start with some firsthand knowledge from a listener who wants to remain anonymous.
Not a question, but I work for one of the big national thrift stores, and it's estimated that 40% of purchases are made by resellers, many of whom do reselling as their main gig. At some locations, it's estimated that the percentage is more like 90%. It's such an interesting microcosm of current late-stage capitalism where overconsumption meets the rolling back of workers' rights, pushing more people to make ends meet through the gig economy. What do you make of this?
I mean, I think there's definitely a lot of truth to that. Yeah. It's kind of this horrible cycle, like people needing to rely on the gig economy and having a side gig just like pay their bills. But then that's like negatively impacting what needs-based shoppers at the thrift store have access to. It is this like, I mean, then certainly there's other factors. Like, sure, the gig economy is part of it, but the resale market's also growing just, I think, in part because.
new clothes the quality of new clothes has declined i mean i listened to your uh this podcast the culture study episode with amanda mall and It goes all into that, but just it's harder to find high quality brand new clothes. So that's part of the reason why the resale market has gotten more popular. And then also just like it's trendy right now. Will it be always? I'm not sure. But right now with Gen Z, they really value.
unique goods like unique like you they don't they're not interested in uniformity like millennials were 20 years ago like where they only shopped at like Abercrombie and Fitch how dare you I know I was there I'm part of this I know Here I was just desperate for like my Mossimo t-shirt and my Umbro shorts, even though I didn't play soccer. Like the absolute obsession with uniformity. Yeah. How do they like...
Where do they keep all this stuff? Do they just keep it in their closets? How does a reseller do this? Have you seen people doing it in action? Like, yeah, you know, I haven't like firsthand, but it is a great question. I imagine it's like any other. Like, I don't know. I guess I imagine it like a hobby, right? Like you have like your space where all your stuff goes for that thing. Yeah. There's just like I can I can only imagine like some of these resellers on like.
depop or whatever so many they have so many things listed and you're just like man they are they must be these thrift store trips they're making to find these products are just so in depth and they they pick up so many different things yeah
It's just like a pile of it, a room at their house. Like, I don't know. It's pretty amazing. Yeah. Are they mostly, do you think, looking for those unique things or are they looking for brands? Because one thing I've noticed with Poshmark in particular is that.
It's easy to sell something if it's a major brand because people can use that keyword to search that thing. It's much harder to sell something if it's just like... a cute top from like a random boutique that has a label that people like don't know that that name do you know what i mean yeah definitely there i mean resellers for sure especially like it's it's difficult to sort through stuff at a thrift store just as like a regular shopper and I think resellers specifically are just
It's like this speed search through the tags. And if it's a recognizable brand name at all, I think that it's viewed as sellable because somebody is going to be searching for that brand name. And so it's a way to stand out. It's hard to find products you're looking for without a brand name, honestly. Like I it's like if you search something specific on Depop, the results can be, you know, if you search like.
black sweater the results can be so varied yeah but if i like know i'm looking from a black sweater from this specific brand um it's just going to show up better so yeah searching for tags is a is a huge thing for resellers yeah And, you know, that's the utility of something like Poshmark to me is when I lose or ruin something that I love. Like I just lost this hat from Madewell that I've worn every day during winter for the last two years.
And I immediately went on and searched like Madewell stocking cap to find the exact one from two years ago. And there was only one listed. And it was for more than I paid originally. But I was like, but this is my favorite hat.
So I bought it. But and that was possible because of a site like Poshmark or I mean, eBay would have done that before. But I probably never would have been like I would have been forced to go outside my comfort zone if I was just searching for a new hat and didn't have that. ability.
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I also find like sometimes I'm interested in a brand like I've checked it out online, but it's expensive. I'm like, well, maybe this I'm not going to like this. It's not going to be good quality. And resellers are a good way to like try out a brand for the first time, like search that specific expensive.
like sweater or like dress brand you're curious about and find just a cheaper version of it. And then, yeah, it's like, you know, maybe then, you know, oh, I'm actually a fan of this brand and then maybe you'll buy it new. So again, you know, good for the good for the brand, too.
yeah i also like i think sometimes people disparage resellers but it's actually a lot of work right oh yeah like the the work that someone running a vintage shop is doing to find these items to launder them to maybe like alter them in some way, to display them in a way that makes them attractive, to curate them is not like...
I think it's different when you have an online seller, but like you have to catalog all of this clothing. You have to make an article of clothing look good online without professional models. Like that's hard. Yeah, it is. It's definitely it's a ton of work. It's like it's not a it's not like a casual side gig. Like if people are really doing this at any significant scale, it's a huge time investment. Yeah. But it's interesting. I do feel like the curated vintage sellers, which we.
you mentioned earlier. I do think that's becoming very popular. A professor who a fashion professor whose expertise is in resale told me that her students who thrift most of their clothes prefer to go to these like curated vintage sellers in person. This is in L.A. There's a lot. There's. a lot of them here and they're very different. And so what's interesting is you, if you have one, you know, that you like, it has a very specific point of view. Like I know what.
At specific stores, I know what brands that reseller is looking for and what brands that they're most likely to have. So that's a huge value, too, because there are specific brands that some of us are drawn to, you know. So if you know that one reseller has those things, that's very valuable. And the resellers know that. So a lot of them do like to focus on specific brands for that reason. Yeah, totally. Or like, you know, a vintage shop that is.
much more into like 50s and 60s style than like... 70s and 80s style like all of those things or even you know i remember from when i was growing up it was much more like oh you go to the value village or the the goodwill and like the rich neighborhood um but i feel like that's not a strategy that works
as effectively anymore yeah good question i'm not sure i do know i know you mentioned earlier you grew up in like a rural place and i and i still think that that like traditional thrift stores are better in rural places because I think there are less of these like trendy 20 something resellers like.
actively sorting through those racks. Like I still think you can find, and I've been told that by some real, like one reseller I talked to said when she visits her grandma in Wisconsin, she heads up every thrift store, like in driving distance and she finds the best stuff. And then she brings it back to LA and sells it to people here.
So I do think that there is still some truth to that. Yeah. No, this makes total sense. So we have I live on an island of 900 people. And every year there is a massive rummage sale at the church. It's on Fourth of July weekend. It is like I cannot. describe like there is a ceremonial rope drop like everything is just donated and then the church sells things for very very cheap it's like someone comes and looks at your stuff and it's like i don't know 10 bucks for like seven
items in your arms, right? Because all of it just goes straight to the church and the programs that it puts on. And they now have a shuttle that runs from the ferry dock to the church because all of these like 20-something kids are coming from the mainland to raid. Specifically, there's like one part of it where they put the like...
They put, they put like, there's a word that they use for it. It's like high fashion or like designer brands or something like that. So it's old. We are what's called a NORC, a naturally occurring retirement community. It means that the percentage of older people like of retirement age is very high, even though it's not like a specifically designated retirement community. So every year there are a lot of people who are cleaning out closets and there are.
beautiful things and weird things and cool things and now it has become like a destination that people Wow. That totally makes sense. Yeah. And it really reminds me, I know in LA too, which is not something I personally as a shopper have been able to capitalize on, but. I know the estate sales here are insane. Yeah. I found that world very difficult to try to like break into as a shopper. I think it takes a lot of like.
paying attention and effort and showing up early in the morning and I'm not a morning person. So I don't know if I if I have like the the stamina for it, but I know people find resellers and just like. fashion girlies find insane things at the estate sales in LA and I'm sure other places, but. But, and that's the thing is it's not as productive as going to a thrift store.
So like going to a thrift store, you can just like do these huge hauls. Whereas an estate sale, you have to be like, OK, I have to sort through the estate sales. I have to somehow discern if this is an estate sale that is going to be worth my time. I have to drive there. I might have to wait. I might have to.
bid on things, all sorts of things like that. It's much more of a slow process. And so I think some people, especially in our current moment, when you want to buy everything immediately online, can't be bothered. Yeah, absolutely. I do think that is the benefit of like, it's like I say traditional thrifting has gotten worse, but.
Buying secondhand in many ways has never been easier because there are other people who will do that. That monotonous estate seltzer ends and sell it to me at a higher rate. Yeah. But so, you know, there's there's like obviously trade offs. But in. that is accessible now. Like that, that special product from that estate sale might be accessible to someone who doesn't have the, you know, who's not going to go look for it themselves. Okay. Our next question is about.
the donations and where they're going. This comes from Megan. Why have prices at thrift stores increased so much since the pandemic, despite huge increases in donations? I run a thrift store for arts and crafts supplies in Colorado and we're inundated with donations, literally flooded every day. And I know other shops in my area are in the same boat.
but they keep raising prices, which seems silly given the supply and the demand. We're doing better than ever by selling things at low prices so they move quickly and then we can sell more things. Are other places just trashing stuff? Do they not have enough staff to keep up? What is going on? As an aside, we pay decent wages while many places I know use a lot of volunteer hours or folks who are doing court mandated service. Maybe that's the issue.
Paying people to process donations costs more so it's easier to just dump stuff. What do you think's going on here? I think there's several reasons why prices are going up at thrift stores. The question definitely gets at part of it, which is just that. Thrift stores need more people to go through the amount of donations that are being dropped off. I mean.
You see these like it's hard to even imagine like how much stuff gets like just dropped off at Goodwills. Clothing, furniture like this is there are similar issues going on in the furniture space in this regard. You can see fast. hauls on TikTok where they're just trying on all these things that cost literally dollars. And if they don't fit, you're not going to many people don't take the time to return those items. They drop them off in boxes at thrift stores. And that it requires.
It requires human humans to look at it. Is this sellable? Where do we put it? Like if there is still a human eye that's needed to go through all those donations. So that's one thing. That's one reason why prices are increasing. The other thing is that thrift stores know what they have. They know people will pay. They're definitely getting, just as thrifting has gotten trendier, secondhand has gotten trendier.
They know that they have something people will pay a little bit more for. Yeah. And they so they raise the price a little bit and it's easy to be like critical of that. But at the end of the day, a lot of that stuff is going to be bought by a reseller and sold for. significantly more than they're selling it for even if you know they're selling something for
$20 that they used to sell for eight. So that is part of it, too. They just know the demand is there. And also the other side of it is just like regular rising costs, like rising rent and wages, like thrift stores have to keep up with that as well.
Yeah. And it also matters if they're for profit or nonprofit. Right. So like something a lot of people like Value Village here in the Northwest is like a for profit enterprise. Right. So they're going to charge more if they can make more. Yeah. I do think the labor.
component of this question is something that a lot of people don't think about a ton which As this question writer points out, a lot of places rely on either volunteer labor or mandated labor or disabled labor, which you pay a whole lot less when you are paying people.
who are disabled and who are working with the organization through like through the disability office and i think there have actually been a lot of lawsuits and a lot of agitation to try and raise that wage because it's incredibly low but if you want to pay minimum wage in most states you're going to have to charge more for the items even if you're getting a large influx of items so if you need the labor you have to pay it
Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, what what makes something expensive is all relative to like, I think. Part of the reason why we think like $20 for a nice sweater is expensive to thrift stores because it used to be cheap. Yeah. Also because there's so many new goods that are cheap. I swear for less than that. Yeah. Like in a fast fashion site. Right. Right. I mean, one thing is like.
If you are clinging to your memory of finding a $5, I don't even think you could get a $5, like an $8 flannel, now that would be $16, right? Like just the way that money works. And then also. that flannel is worth more than the $16 flannel that you would get at Old Navy, say. Right. Yeah, absolutely. Like the materials are actually worth more. So some of it is that and there's just this like, I think we have such an affliction with like, obsessive deal mongering.
Like that a thrift store has to be like everything should be one dollar. And like if you want everything to be one dollar, you can go to the dollar store and participate in that market of exploitation. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's a great point. I mean, the primary.
reason to thrift is not necessarily to spend the lowest amount of money yeah um and maybe it was it or and for some people maybe it still is but you can often find something cheaper again if you don't care about the quality new now um But that's maybe not the primary reason to thrift. I mean, there's I mean, sustainability reasons, just like higher quality goods, like you said, that you can still find.
Do you think that what you know, what is the pandemic like? What role does that play in terms of like a turning point? Because I've seen a lot of people talk about thrifting pre and post pandemic. Yeah, that's a great question. I think thrifting blew up like right around the time of the pandemic, like the past five years, it kind of exploded. I don't know if that's a function of just like economic instability.
fuels people to think differently about their purchases i don't know if it's like i'm sure there's different factors at play but i also think part of it is like the like explosive growth of TikTok, because I think there is like a huge thrifting community on TikTok, Gen Z and sharing these like hauls and like look what I and it's hard not to watch them. It's like, what did you find at the thrift store? Because you're kind of getting that secondhand high of like when you go to a thrift store.
and you find something special. I think that's definitely played a role. Totally. I also think it's just kind of notable too for millennials who are looking at Gen Z, like finding clothing that was from our years and thinking of it as vintage. Yeah. And there are feelings that come along with that. thinking about a going out to office vintage. The other thing that I was thinking about, and I don't think it has anything to do with the pandemic per se, just that like time passed.
A lot of times when I watch Rush Talk videos and post those on my Instagram, people remark to me in the comments or in my DMs how odd it is to see these... young women who are obsessed with brand like expensive brand name things some things that are like like golden goose shoes right like so shoes that cost more than five hundred dollars a pair and then also
i got my jewelry at amazon right like don't even know what which amazon store because it's probably called like 1922 kkg or something you know what i mean like they don't know what it's called But then adding in for class or for like some sort of like differentiation, like my grandma's ring. And there's this flattening that I think is difficult to conceive of for us that are older. That like that's not weird to them. It's not weird to have fashion and pair it with vintage.
Whereas I think like millennials, especially older millennials and Gen X are like, no, your entire identity either needs to be Abercrombie or all grandpa's closet like that. Yeah. You have to choose one. Yeah. Yeah. That is fascinating. That is a good point because as much as thrifting has become very popular with Gen Z, Gen Z also consumes a ton of fast fashion. And even though they cite part of the reason they thrift is for...
environmental reasons, but then obviously they're, so there are trade-offs, obviously you're spending power when you're, when you're young is different. So I think that is part of it, but yeah, the, the branding obsession, I think a lot of Gen Z is really into brand names.
specific brand names like when they and maybe that was always the case. But yeah, it does feel like there is this unique mix of like as long as they have this one brand name item mixed in with everything else, then they're signaling, oh, I'm I'm I'm trendy. I'm with it. But I don't need everything to be like special or.
or expensive I don't know yeah well and then there's also the thing that I think has been around for a long time which is this idea that like you you should always have a new outfit I think like when I was yet like all I wanted was to like always have a new outfit and
Fast fashion facilitates that, but so does thrifting. Just an abundance of clothing in your closet. And you can combine those two in ways that make you feel like you have an abundant... store of clothing to choose from whereas now and I think this happens as you age for many people like I want fewer clothes I want to not choose I want smaller closet and so One thing that I think we're arriving at is that a lot of our feelings about why thrifting sucks are actually just like...
developing feelings about clothes yeah that makes sense like having more of a a particular Or more of a specific way that you view clothing and how you acquire clothing and what each individual piece means or doesn't mean. Yeah, or feeling the contradictions too of clothing. Like what it means to want to be.
on trend versus classical items but then also like not wanting to spend so much money on clothes but then not wanting to participate in fast fashion like they really just come into conflict in ways that are difficult to unravel yeah okay we have a wild card question I can't wait to see what we come up with as the answer. This comes from Allie, and it's about an experience of in-person shopping. At my local Goodwill outlet, The Bins.
There are usually one to two groups of rowdy young men, maybe 18 to 21, who sprint around the store digging through the bins of clothing and goods. They seem to arrive together, and they're on a mission. They dominate the space, and they're the first to line up when the workers release new bins. I can't tell what they're looking for, but they pile up their carts high, and I always wonder what they're up to.
Is this a part of an online selling network? Do they have a boss? Are they a collective? P.S. I'm also jealous of their sheer strength. Digging through the bins requires muscle. They have clear advantage. The stronger you are, the more you can thrift. Okay. We talked before we recorded that neither of us know the exact answer to this question. We do not know who the hordes of men are.
but do you have a working theory do you have an idea of who these men could be yeah i think i think it's possible they're making content right that's like what i can oh that's like my quickest solution and i don't know if it's like look at the crazy thing we found or like how to take on. I did search a little bit for this and it wasn't I didn't find much. So I don't know. I imagine that they're they're somehow making content about searching through the Goodwill bins, which are like.
a beast of their own to figure out how to how to tackle i think Yes. I love that when I heard this scenario, I thought, okay, this is how they're making money when I should have put on my content-making brain to think like, oh, yes, this is like incredible content for someone, right? Like it could be...
I mean, we did this sort of thing like we just did it for like parties. Right. You're like, find the weirdest thing that you possibly can in the goodwill bin. Right. And then wear it to this party. Like there's so many possibilities, but they could also be reselling like they could be.
finding unique, cool stuff. And then whatever they don't actually use, they just re-donate to Goodwill. Right. Yeah, absolutely. They definitely could be reselling and just hoping they're going to get one thing that's a big... I don't know, a big sell? I don't know. Yeah. I will say that the people who come to the rummage sale on the island are all dudes. Really? Yeah. Like at least the ones that I've seen like most visibly like sorting through stuff and that sort of thing.
Can you tell if they're shopping for themselves or if they're shopping to resell stuff? I mean, they looked cool. Like, they looked like they would wear some of the finds that they got. But then I think also... I love that she notes that like this is an incredibly physical activity. Yeah. So you need like robust strapping young men in order to get to like the really good stuff to sort through. So, yeah, I think I think it's probably a mix of.
And like also just like fucking around with your friends. Like that was something that my friends and I would do. We'd go to the mall or we'd go to the thrift store. Yeah, absolutely. And I think the Goodwill bins specifically are a little bit of like a free for all. Like people are just really kind of.
so yeah that would make sense to you just messing around are they did they have a boss are they a collective yeah just content making just i really want to know where this person is like where geographically this is happening and then maybe we will be to like do some like research to figure out um okay the last question which i think will set us up to talk a little bit more about the future of thrifting too is about
just how difficult it is right now to get rid of stuff. I know we're talking about the abundance of thrifting, but how hard it is to get rid of other stuff, including clothes. And this comes from Allison. Why is it so hard to get rid of perfectly good possessions?
Whether you're trying to sell the stuff or just give it away, it can turn into a part-time job just to unload the things you don't want. And as a middle-class woman who grew up clipping coupons and mending holes in clothes, I feel way too guilty to throw perfectly good stuff in the trash. Alright.
I think it's actually easy to get rid of stuff if you live in a place with a stoop culture or with a like pickup culture. So on my island, if you post free pile, if you put it on next door, people will come and get stuff. Almost always. In New York City, if I put something on the stoop, be gone.
within 10 minutes. Yeah, I agree. If I want to get rid of something for free, it's not I don't find it to be difficult. You know, if I list something at Facebook Marketplace and I usually I get a response. I mean, I think as far as like.
dropping it off at thrift stores that don't want to take it or you try to, you know, go to like Buffalo Exchange and get money for your clothes and they won't pay for them. I think it just comes down to the fact that we have so much stuff. It's like really hard to appreciate how much overconsumption.
now versus uh you know the 20th century it's just like people just used to have so many less things so there were just fewer things you're trying to get rid of now so many of us have so much stuff there's just literally not enough places for it to go yeah and enough there's like as high of a demand as there is for thrifting there's either not
There's just not the infrastructure I think or the resale market isn't quite built out enough to handle all of the stuff that we are actively trying to get rid of. And I think remodel culture really feeds this to some extent. The idea that you should be refreshing your home, refreshing your wardrobe, that everything should be new. And like I think there's there's always some tension here with like middle class people's idea that like.
oh this used shabby worn sofa someone should want this i don't want it but someone else should want it yeah instead Instead of thinking about like, even if someone has less money. They want new nice things too, right? And even with furniture, it's a lot easier to buy a $100 couch on Amazon than to buy a $100 couch. couch that's covered in cat hair on facebook marketplace that you have to go pick up yourself yeah i'll say that one trick my mom used when dramatically downsizing
her home when she was moving out of the house where she had lived for a long time. When she listed stuff on Facebook Marketplace, she charged like $5. Because if you charge something... it makes the person much more likely to come up and get it. Whereas if she was just saying like, it's free, and someone would say, oh, I'll come get it, then they just wouldn't come get it.
Oh, interesting. So it would create a lot more work for her to like try to find the next person who said that they would want it. So charging $5 for my My Little Pony Palace meant that the person actually came and got it. and wanted yeah yeah that totally makes sense yeah i think i think you mentioned remodel culture i think that that really gets it like just generally just the way that we think it's normal it's for the objects we buy to have
less of a use case in our own lives time-wise. I mean, like, you know, literally, again, furniture, I think, is a really relevant comparison where, you know, in the mid... 20th century, if you wanted a cabinet, you would go somewhere and pick something out or ask for it in your dimensions. It would often get custom made. It would take maybe a month or more to get delivered to you.
And so when you got that thing, you kept it for just a really long time. And, you know, it's like why we see with our grandparents have had the same furniture for 50 years. And but now I can I can I expect if I want a new dresser, I can get it in two days. Yeah.
And so it just kind of fuels this whole like I don't then I don't feel attached to it. I don't feel as committed to it. I don't feel as I feel not bad about giving it away and getting a new thing. And I think it's the same thing with clothing. Yeah, absolutely. I will say that there are like, if you're willing to put in the labor, there are places like you just have to kind of research for like, okay, here's where a place would need a dresser or like.
all baby clothes and baby stuff like there is a specific place in the town near me that accepts baby stuff whereas most thrift stores do not because of there's all sorts of like safety regulation stuff about things like car seats and that sort of thing and like if you feel whatever feelings about like goodwill and resellers and all that sort of thing
Women's shelters are always looking for clothes that go directly to people who need them most. And especially for things like higher end items that you probably won't get anything in resale for them. I'm talking about like. The work clothes that don't quite fit you that you bought in 2015, those are great to donate to a women's shelter because they're always looking for professional wardrobes that don't just like go like...
in a big, huge pile. It's more like, oh, it becomes this little shop where they can go and shop and pick out things that they like because just because someone doesn't have as much money doesn't mean that they don't still have preferences.
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's great advice if you're trying to get rid of something to look for something in your area that is more specific, not just like we're going to drop off donations. We're going to drop off this specific kind of item who needs this. That's a that's a great way to.
to hope like at least give your stuff new life that's that's valuable yeah and we also got a ton of questions were from people who were like i think that middle class people are actually the ones getting these things on buy nothing groups and i'm like who cares If this person's putting in the labor and they want this thing and they're going to use it, like what you care about is it's not yours anymore. Yeah, absolutely. And I do think there's this idea that like there's not enough.
stuff to go around. So like, but at the end of the day, there's so much stuff that people no longer want, which is why. So there is enough. I mean, the quality is evolving of what those things are, but there is definitely like. If we can avoid sending something to the landfill, it's a good thing. What do you think thrifting is going to look like in 10 years? I am a little scared for this. I don't know. I know, right? Like there's no handmade items at all. Like it's just like, yeah.
I know it's I I first started looking into this because I just went to the thrift store and I was like nothing here feels like clothing like everything felt like plastic basically and that's dramatic but that is what I felt it was very different than you know my early experiences with thrifting. Is that going to continue? I think certainly the proliferation of fast fashion means that that will always be a problem. But I also think there are...
There is like a push towards like quality and minimalism and more intentional purchases. And I think there are brands that are popping up to meet that. Like there are small brands, smaller brands. They're more sustainable. They're making things with, you know, more natural fibers and and they might cost a little bit more as they probably should because I should buy less. So, you know, I think.
And those goods will be around. And then I think eventually those goods will also end up in the resale, like, you know, at thrift stores, the resale market. I think there will always be quality goods to go around. There might be less. I don't know. It's kind of scary, though. Yeah, no, I see like a continuing stratification, basically, right? That like there will always be high quality, long lasting things that will be incredibly desirable.
on the resale market. But the abundance of the resale market, I think that it's going to be, that abundance is going to be cheaper, less interesting, less sustainable stuff. Like the resale market is only going to expand. Is it going to be things that people want is the question. Right. And I think as long as fast fashion is growing, then that stuff is just going to continue. to populate a lot of the resale market. So, yeah.
Well, Kelsey, this has been both like super fun and also like weird and complicated. Thank you for working through these questions. If anyone knows who these men are that are in the thrift store.
please write in, let us know. Yes, we need to know. Yes. If you found their content, we want to see it. Where can people find you on the internet if they want to find more from you? The best place is probably... my author page on business insider um that's i'm i'm not the best at self-promoting so business insider cal sublime is my bottom line that's amazing i love it because who will also like
I don't no one wants to be on any of these other sites right now. And like, it's weird to promote your stuff on Instagram. I get it. You can follow me on Instagram, but it's not it's not work. So what's your primary posting strategy on Instagram?
I post personal stuff. I also have a food, an old food blog Instagram from like 10 years ago at the end of that. Let's have everyone. That's called The Hungry Thinker. You could find that. I hardly ever post there anymore. You can just find that. You just get like 100 followers. Yeah. Thank you again. This has been a pleasure.
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