Culture Trail running Podcast from the belly of the Beast Coast, Glastonbury, Connecticut. This is the ultra trail running. Podcast we talk about all the fun shit that happens on the trails that most normal people don't care about. The language we use is explicit and raw, like the trails we run on. So don't listen with your kids. Cultural is brought to you by our Patreon supporters, and we are 112% listener supported and support is good.
all right, all right, all right. Well, welcome everybody to the culture show running. Podcast. I'm your host, art byram, and I am joined by members of the Culture Crew evil Becky Burke.
Hello!
And for Red Marolo.
I'm here.
So all right, tonight's show is gonna be a little bit different than usual. or, as usual, we're not going to talk about any sponsors, because, we're 112% listener supported. So we just want to take a second and thank our patreons.
these are people make a monthly donation to our show and help keep the lights on. So tonight's show is one that we hope to be an evergreen show, meaning for those of you playing at home. This is an episode that you could probably listen to 5 years from now, or 112 years from now, and it would still be just as sensible as it is
today, which is kind of open-ended. But really the idea of the show today's show is a because it's the New Year's. We thought we would do something you know, along those lines. Right, Becky.
Yes, yes. So we were talking about how a lot of times, you know, you think of the New Year, and you think of New Year's resolutions. And I'm gonna do this or that, and many times those New Year's resolutions have to do with fitness or eating, or something like that. And so this was a really good way of kind of segmenting into maybe what you're looking to do for the New Year has to do with getting more into trail running and and that's what we're here to talk about, right.
That's right, right, Fred.
Yeah, yeah.
Sure. Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah, so so I just want to. Yeah. So this is going to be for new runners. Maybe you're a new runner just looking to get out in the woods, and you're a hiker. Lots of people find trail running that way other people are roadrunners, and now they're looking to venture into the woods. So I think that your approach is going to be slightly different. To each of those, you know, because, obviously, like, if you're just starting running.
you know the woods is not a bad place to start, and trails aren't a bad place to start but you know it brings into the early fitness thing. So of course, you know, we're gonna always add the disclaimer. Your mileage may vary and be sure to consult you know, seek professional help before embarking on a you know, on a on a training program to make sure that you don't have any defects which are gonna take you out.
I just thought that, you know. I know you were just saying like it's geared towards, you know. People that are just kind of starting to get into the trails.
I think it. It's something, too, that you think of like if any of you that are, you know, not new to the trails, but you've been injured or you kind of stepped away from it for a little while, and you're getting back into it, and sometimes I think it's really good to to go back to the basics of the beginning and think of it that way and not be like, Hey, you know
When I was last running I was doing X number of miles at, you know, X pace in the woods at whatever, and maybe going back to taking that like new, fresh mindset, but that you're, you know, just getting into it and kind of redeveloping some good habits.
Gotcha gotcha that's that's I think that's absolutely right. I mean, a lot of people kind of, you know, scoff at the idea of New Year's resolutions or doing new things. But there is some I know, just in this. Between the 3 of us. We have a history of being pretty successful at this time of year, and starting new things, and, you know, launching into them one that comes to mind, Fred. Fred, you had a 39 year running streak
that started. If I'm not mistaken, it started around basically around the holidays, correct.
Yes, I started on December 30.th
Yeah, there you go. That's like, that's almost New Year's Day, right? Pretty close. It's kind of close. So so you know, it's not to say, you know, lots of people start things and and stop them. I mean, I think the today's episode is designed for the new trail runners, especially in the northeast. And we're going to address some practical, relatable and northeast region specific issues.
And even if you're an experienced runner, you know. I expect that I'm going to learn something tonight from talking to you guys here and that yeah. some of our experienced listeners may learn something as well, but let's get into it a little bit here. So I think we're going to start with the trail running basics. What do you guys think as far as gear. What do you actually need to have to start trail running? And what do you think you might be able to skip.
It wouldn't like versus maybe, like road running or.
Well, no, just just in general, you know. Let's let's just say in general, going out into the woods to you know, to experience the trails and and to start. you know, to start trail running.
Fred, why don't you start?
I don't think you need anything or.
Okay.
Yeah, if you have a pair of running shoes. you don't need special trail shoes. You don't need special trail gear. I mean, if you're going to be doing out there all day if you're going to be doing an overnight. There are various things, but if you're just going to go out and try to experience the trails, lace up your shoes and get on a trail.
Okay, all right now. And and obviously, that's gonna come with a few caveats like.
I have. I have something too.
Yeah. Go ahead. Back. Yeah.
All right. I disagree normally joking. I I I think that what? What Fred said makes a lot of sense. I think also, though when I think of going out for trail runs is didn't. It's kind of different than Road 2 is, I think, needing to do, or maybe wanting to do a little bit more research if if you're going out to do a trail run and you're going somewhere that you haven't been before, and you're new to it, like.
you know, a road is a road. But sometimes a trail with 200 feet of gain, one trail with 200 feet of gain can be very different than another trail with 200 feet of gain, like.
Yes.
So kind of. I think that's something to that. People may want to consider a little bit more. I think another thing would be especially if you're not as familiar with the area is having some sort of a phone or a or a device with you so that you can contact someone. And and then, lastly, I would say, is depending on the time of year, and where you're running is the color of your clothing.
Okay.
Those are just things that I think.
That's a great.
Specific to that.
Yeah, I think those are all great things, and I think we're probably going to get into some of those. But I think in the simplest form. Let's let's take a simple park right? Like a simple semi urban park. Nothing really too remote. These are just some paths that are not paved right? So maybe you know, I'm thinking of something like. you know, a a, just a basic small park that you can go and just take a jog around, you know, on these on trails. So I guess so like the first.st
I still think the phone, I.
Yes, yeah, I think, yeah.
Or some sort of a navigational device.
Yeah, you. There's a there's a whole bunch of things we can talk about, as far as being appropriate for the area that you're going to. And you know, sometimes I guess, as a beginner it is a little difficult to know what you know, what's appropriate and what's not like, you know every month of the not. It doesn't happen every month, but people have died on Mount Washington, you know, in the White Mountains.
Off.
Exposure during every month of the calendar year, you know. So not. It doesn't happen.
Wow!
But you know, if you look at the information, you know, the weather can be bad enough there to kill you any month of the year. So it's always, you know. Obviously, that's a little bit different than the parks that we're talking about. So
so you want to, you know, based on your experience, you know, if you're you definitely want to go. And do you know, make sure that you're approaching something in an appropriate way for your safety like you said you know orange is a great, you know. That's a great thing, you know, and people who know me know that I wear orange pretty much all the time. Because why shouldn't I? You know, if I'm running on the roads? I don't want to get hit by a car, and if I'm running.
It's a statement piece.
Yeah, if I'm the new trails, Becky. Wow, Fred, it is. you know, if I'm running in the woods, I don't want to get shot either, so I gotta give the hunters the respect and give them the opportunity not to shoot me. You know.
Allow them to to have it to make an educated decision, so that if they do shoot you, it's like they thought about more like, should I? Or shouldn't I? Versus if you wore black? They're just gonna go for it. So at least they're gonna have a decision.
That's right. Yeah, yeah, okay, so so that's great. So I guess it depends. The answer is, it depends right as far as what equipment that you need. If you're going to a more advanced area, you need a more developed equipment. If you're going to something simpler. Like, Fred said. All you need is a pair of shoes really? Okay. So.
Just shoes and no clothes.
And no clothes. That's true.
No clothes is perfect, and and road shoes will work unless I mean like, unless they're racing flats makes it more difficult. But just a regular pair of road shoes will work fine on a trail until you get like more advanced than you want. Something special.
Yeah.
That's fine!
Yep, yep, there's Yeah, I mean a absolutely. And and you'll know, you know, if you if once you get out there, you'll kind of pick up on it, but you know you you gotta be careful not to, you know, not to slip and things like that. And and you'll pick up on that. So the more you get into it the more you're probably gonna want to invest. As far as like, you know, shoes that have good traction, especially in the northeast. You know, it's not like a lot of trails out West are.
you know, are are less technical, meaning that they have less rocks and roots to deal with. you know, around here in the northeast you can find a full variety. We have some trails that are buffed out like that, but also others that are just that year that are treacherous, and that will pinch your feet together, and you know, and that you want to not have your feet bruised either. So so how do you guys find local trails to run on like, what do you do? As far as apps websites or groups.
That you guys look to to find out where to run trails. Yep, Becky, maybe start with you.
I mean, I always like to. I I do always when I'm on social media. I do like to to see if people post runs like where they post them or on strava like it's that's always like fun to. And that's kind of the thing that I like about about that is more the oh, where did this person person go? And can I, you know, can I do that? But I also there's so many great places like I always tend to look a lot to the. to the Connecticut, the the blue glaze rail system. So okay,
Yeah. So in Connecticut we have Connecticut Forest and Parks Association. They have about 850 miles roughly of trails that they maintain and advocate, and, you know, try to keep open for us. They have trail markings that they put there. So they blaze the trail so that you know it's not just a path. You can follow these markers, and they also have a website that you can open up, and that'll show your location as it relates to these.
these trails, and then it also shows you where the parking is, so you can click for more information, and it'll automatically link you to directions to the parking areas and tell you how many, roughly, how many parking spaces are there. So trial running is always good to do a little bit of research as you go, you know, just to kind of find out
what's there, you know, and there's lots of most trails. Once you know the name of the trail. If you Google, that you know, you'll see reviews on all trails or some of these other websites that will give you some feedback.
All trails is a good source on. Also, you can just Google Trail running near me if you're not in Connecticut and.
Yeah.
Like in upstate New York, or you know, or Vermont. There's there's trails everywhere.
Yes, and and there's lots of you know. There, there's each state at least has their own you know. Most of them have their own organization. That kind of. you know, either volunteer or you know government base that help to. you know. Keep an eye on the trails so, and like you, said Fred. Fred. That's always a good way to, you know you do that. You'll come up. The one good thing about trail runners is that they fucking love to talk about their trail running? Right? So yeah.
So you find a trail, and then it just expands that you get. You could want to go for a 2 h trail, run and spend the 1st 2 h of the 2 h trail. Run picking your trail because there's so much written about it. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. So looking at the other thing to keep in mind is another good source of to find trails is to go on Facebook and look for trail running groups. So each you know, there's several trail running groups in each State. You know, you go into Maine, and you have like the trail animals. There you go into Massachusetts. You have trail. I'm sorry you have the trail monsters in Maine. Sorry about that. You have a Tark or the Trail Animals Running Club in Massachusetts.
There's you know the in the blue hills outside of Boston. There's you know. There's there's groups that run there as well. You have Let's see the Berkshire trailheads
Yeah.
Them out. You can check out Kim Levinsky and Sasquad in New Jersey, and then, excuse me, pardon me.
Sorry. I was like laughing at you choking.
Yeah, sorry. I'm choking there. And there's there's a trail running groups in in every State, you know. New York certainly has.
You might mention the trail mixers.
Yeah. Ct, trail mixer.
The Ramblers.
The Ramblers, the Schnippsit striders, yeah. you know. And and so there's all those groups. And then there's racing series, too, that you can check out. You know, there's the green tree there's the blue blaze, you know. There, there's just so many. If you just Google, it's it's almost pointless for me to mention them, because you'll find them as you as you, Google, the area that pertains. You know that that's near you. So.
Hmm.
But those are good. Those are good places, and you'll see where they run, you know, in Strava, especially if you go into the heat maps and put in trails, you know. Filter it with trails. You'll be able to see many different spots that you can run there, so you'll find good places.
Yeah.
So in general, guys, how would you say that trail running is different than road running, Becky, what do you? What do you think about that. What's the different? You know? What's the I think that.
I I for me. The biggest difference is is the pace like you. You kind of it's it's not like, you know. I'm gonna go out. And do you know this many miles at this pace? If you're on a trail? I think.
trying to go out at a certain pace unless it's a trail that you've been on, and that you know really well. And you know what your pace is. It's kind of hard to do that, because there, you know, the trail is definitely going. The terrain is definitely going to affect your pace, and you could run in, and you would need to be. you know, prepared that there'll be times when you're gonna be putting a lot more effort in, and heart rate will be much higher, and you'll be running much slower.
then you would if it was the other way. So that to me is is, I think, a big, a big thing, and I think people that I've spoken to who have as they've gotten into trail running. Who were, you know, previously road runners? I think that was that was something that was tough for them at first, st because they're like, Well, wait a minute. I I usually run an 8 min mile, and now I'm on the trail, and I'm doing a 10 I'm just giving those numbers. But yeah.
That's yeah, absolutely. That's a big, that's a big thing. Because then they're like, Oh, I suck at trail running. I can't do this. Fred, what do you? You have anything to add to that? As far as the differences.
Just echoing what Becky said, I think the best way to approach trail running is by running for time, not for distance. Because then you don't have to worry about. Am I doing my 10 min mile or 9 min mile or something, because you're not going to be doing what you expect to do on the roads. So you, if you say I'm going to go out and run for X hours, that works a lot better.
Yeah, cause I think that like if as somebody who was a road runner 1st and was, you know. very much into racing and getting faster, and training and all the theories of training. I focused a lot on pace during my runs. You know I would kind of judge whether it was a good run or bad run to a certain degree based upon how fast I ran. Okay, and.
No.
You know. And I can tell you this is that like a lot of times, walking was just not something that really happened. Right? So do you guys ever walk on trails.
Yes.
What?
I think that if you're I, that's 1 of the things that actually walking is a huge. I think it's a big part of being a successful trail runner, for I mean not necessarily for everyone, but I think, knowing when to walk and how to walk efficiently. I think if you do it the right way. I know from my own experience that you're gonna go faster. And you're gonna you're gonna feel better. So walking is definitely, my friend, when I'm on the trails.
Yeah, yeah, So yeah, that's that's important. It's a skill that a lot of us have to get used to like, I think I'm a much better runner than I am, Walker, like I just get smoked anytime. There's walking involved. I'm like, I'm probably even when I'm trying like, if I'm trying to walk fast, and other people are. I just get like I get left behind on the walk. You know it's it's it's crazy, but it's still better for me to walk in in a lot of cases than it is to try to run stuff, because
you know, you can. Still, you can conserve energy. And then, you know, especially in these longer races you, you run the downhills and flats and you know, walk, walk the steeper uphills, especially early in the race, you know, as you go. Maybe you feel a little bit better, and you know you get it done. So.
Or or maybe you feel a bit worse, and you walk a little more.
Yeah, I guess that's probably.
Let's be real right?
Yeah, yeah, let's not lie to the people here. Right? Starting, you know. okay, so those are the differences. So, do you have any suggestions on how to really do that transition. I mean, maybe I'm like overthinking it or digging into it too much. But.
Transition of of the walking, or with of just going from road to trail.
Roads, to trail.
Oh, oh, okay. my biggest thing is like what Fred said is is, you know, if if you had been going by miles where you're like 22 and 25 miles this week. 27 next week, whatever or 87 or something to just switch and go to time. And I'm gonna be out here for 40 min. that I think that's the biggest is to go by time.
Gotcha.
I think it's not a bad idea to start off, which is not like getting on typical New England trails to start off on things like jeep roads, because part of what trail running does versus road running is, you have to sort of supercharge your proprioception like your unconscious mind has to get
in gear to help you not have to stare at every rock and root and have it. Just sort of go into your brain and help you step in the right place, and if you go straight to the like hardest trap, rock trail or something, I think you might be like like going to advanced calculus from algebra, one or something. It's not a bad idea to start on something that's going to have a few obstacles in it, but not that many.
Yeah, I think that's a that's an excellent point. And I want to take probably 5 min now, just to kind of talk about the details of that and what you're talking about. So a lot of people will tell you. You know, a roadrunner who doesn't want to try trail running. Not that we're trying to convince anybody, because really people can do whatever the fuck they want, and that's cool. But a lot of people say I would just break my neck. I would. You know
I'm just I I can't do this, and and a whole bunch of stuff and I and like not to get too far in the weeds on this or too much into the detail, but I think a lot of dealing with the trail and dealing with the obstacles is knowing where to look as you're running. Now, when you're running as a road runner, you're looking basically up at the horizon and maybe giving a a basic little look down.
If you're gonna go up over a curb right? You know, you might look down. But besides that, you're keeping your head up, and you know. you know, keeping your head up and running.
Yeah.
And you can do that to a certain extent on trails. However, it's different now when you get onto something that's technical. A lot of times I've seen people. Their 1st instinct is to look down and look at their feet and see where they're going to place their feet. And you know with, and and your gaze starts to pull in closer to where you are. And I think that.
like you, said Fred, you have to be able to train your brain and your body to react to the terrain. So And I think if you're looking too close, you don't have enough time to process it. So what needs to happen is that you need to look out a little bit further than you think. You should
just a little bit. And what that does is that all of a sudden I find that my brain will start to take in the obstacles on the trail, and that my body will just know how to deal with it, and I won't have to think about where I'm placing my feet. I'm not thinking about every footfall. I'm just looking up. I'm taking it in. And once my brain is warmed up to this
I'm able to just process this. I get in this state where I can just naturally take on the trail. At a decent, you know, hopefully, at a decent clip, you know. And anytime that I'm struggling, it's usually because I'm looking too close to my feet, and I'm not looking out far enough.
Agreed. There are tips for this, though. 1, 1 of which is, don't follow somebody in front of you too closely.
It's not.
Your conscious mind that's going to take in the the obstacles, but your your eyes have to see them. So if you're following somebody and all you're seeing is someone's back. You're much more likely to fall on the trail. Oh, yeah, yeah, that's tailgating. Right? Yeah.
Yeah. And it's tough, because because sometimes you're talking to them, right? So it's a it is a, you know, that's a that's a tough balance right there.
you know. So sometimes you can. You know. The other thing is that you'll find sometimes people will try to follow the footsteps and follow. You know, it's it's kind of like you guys who are skiers out there. You know how you pick a line right? You look at the Moguls, and you kind of know about where you're going to go. Right? So you you pick that line, and I think as a trail runner, you have that choice quite often as well.
You know whether you're going to go to the left of the trail or to the right of the trail, and you know, for whatever reason you're going to choose one or the other. So if you're always taking somebody else's choice. they might be seeing something different than you are, you know, and you might just I don't know. I I don't. That annoys me, you know, especially when I get tired. Becky can attest that I don't like following people. I can't. I can't handle it. It takes too much. You know. It's.
Takes a lot of willpower.
Yeah.
Whereas for other people it's that all they can do is follow where they're like. I can't think I'm just following.
Yep.
You. Art can't be a follower in those times.
That's right. Yes, I mean, I think that the you know, probably going uphill is easier than going downhill, you know, if you're if you're just if you're just hiking up the hill, or you know doing all that, that's that's 1 thing. But I think as you're trying to race down a hill that has some technical aspects to it, you know, meaning more rocks and roots and you know, choices to be made. That's probably following. Somebody can be a dangerous thing, right?
I agree.
Okay.
I would concur.
Now. Let's see. So, Becky, what would you say? Are the as far as weather is concerned, like what sort of precautions do you take, or contingencies do you take for the unpredictable weather in the northeast, like maybe you could talk about a couple different circumstances and things like I think.
I think when you think it's gonna rain with some thunder and lightning, I think that's when you want to really get into the woods, and really just be amongst all those big trees like joking. I'm only joking. I I think that it's I mean I love running in bad love running, but I'm fine with running in bad weather, I think, though, and when you're talking about running in the trails.
you one of the things that you have to consider is that you know, if it snowed or it rained and it's cold. What the roads look like is going to be
significantly different than the trails like. There's many times where I've been like, oh, it hasn't snowed in weeks, or it's, you know, been great weather, so I don't have to worry about ice, and I go out on a trail, and I'm like, How is there so much ice and snow on this? And I'm not. You know I'm not prepared for it. I think another thing would be with the the light is another so if you're someone like me that tends to run
and like right till right till dusk, when it gets dark, and you don't have a headlamp. When you're when you are on trails. It's gonna probably get. It's gonna feel darker sooner because you so you do have to consider that as well. So though, I think those are the the biggest, the biggest things is just knowing that on a trail it's gonna be different.
All right. So we're talking about, I think let's break this into 2 parts. Number one. Let's take the lighting first.st Okay, so being able to see the trails, you know, unlike on the roads where a lot of times the lights that you're carrying, or so that others can see you. You do want to be visible to hunters in the woods. But primarily you're trying to spot. You're trying to see
what you're running on right? So what kind of running? What kind of lights have you guys used, or what? And do you guys do anything special with that or or what sort of solutions. Maybe. Have you seen other people use? And and maybe we could talk about that a little bit.
Good luck!
Ago from the ultra list. I read that if you have a light that's not a headlamp you can see rocks and roots better, because they'll it will cast a shadow. Headless is really your eyes. And so there's no shadow on those those hazards. Yeah, what what I did in As a result of that, generally, when I did trail races is, I would have a headlamp and a handheld light. So there, so I could see a shadow of rock, you know, of rocks and roots.
Gotcha. So what you're saying is that if your eyes are in line with your the beam of light, you know the headlamp. That is going to cast a shadow. But that shadow is not going to be visible to you, because it's your eyes are on the same plane as that light right? So that if you're
shooting from the waist with that flashlight, that's gonna you know, that's a different angle. So it's going to cast a longer shadow. And now, all of a sudden, you'll notice that there's a rock up ahead, and you're not as likely to trip over that.
True. And I've also noticed, like in this, you know, I started this 20 years ago. But more recently, I've seen people wear waistlights. And yeah.
Yeah, that seems to be a big thing. I.
I think.
I. The waste lights I don't have a problem with, except sometimes lighting can be weird at night, like if you're doing a an overnight run the little things start to catch up to. For me personally, the little things can catch up to you. and what I mean by that is that if you have a light that is very spotty, meaning that it's not projecting a soft. even light, but more of a focused beam. I can get. I get a little bit of I can get motion sickness out of that.
Yeah, yeah, I was just gonna say, you can get carsick from that kind of well.
Yeah.
Sick. Yeah.
Yup and plus it kind of also will. you know you kind of lose your night vision a little bit. I find you know, from that bright spot where you might be able to see that little circle. But then everything else in, you know, peripherals kind of go away so you won't see a shadow bear as he's creeping out of the woods to take a bite out of your ass right.
True. There's also a lot of races, you know, like like a hundred mile race, where the the course has out and backs, and people who have waistlight. A lot of the waist lights are super bright.
Oh, yeah.
They're just blinding you on on the aspect, and then your your night vision is ruined. For a couple of minutes.
Yes.
Bless you!
Yeah, I think we're gonna talk about that in trail etiquette and safety. So but no, that's that is true. Your your lighting strategy. You have to make sure that it's not offensive to others right?
Especially in those out and backs, and when you're at the Aid station you don't look up at. You know you don't look. You turn off your headlamp or do something, point it down or do something. Don't blind people with that shit right. Nobody likes it. That's not a good look, and it's easy enough to forget. So
alright, so, so lighting. So yeah, waist, light headlamp or a handheld. And then, if you're in anything that's remote at all, then, I always say that like having a you we've had. We've interviewed, you know. This is, we've had about 350 episodes at this point. And we've interviewed a lot of people that have told us, you know, the one story that we always hear from people is, I was out there, and my batteries died in my headlamp.
Yeah.
And like that shit just happens. And it's like, Don't be that. Don't let that happen. That happened to me tonight, actually on a road run. My battery died, but I did have a backup, so it wasn't wasn't all bad.
I I think part of that comes from overconfidence a lot of times.
Yes.
I know how to do this, and then you find like it's it's the 3rd night you've gone out with your your headlamp on, and it, and it poops out in the middle.
Yeah. And it it doesn't help that. It's, you know, about 20 degrees out tonight, too. So cold weather, your batteries are gonna last a lot less. But you know, I think like the last. Maybe the last thing I'll say about lighting is if if you have a light, you know a small you know, headlamp, or something like that. I I just keep that in my pack, you know, like that's something to keep in there because it's always gonna happen that
you know you're going to get out there. That's happened to me dozens of times where I've been out there. I'm not expecting to be out past dark, and wouldn't you know it? You know it's it's after dark, you know, and all of a sudden it's a battle against the setting sun.
So always better to have that light, just to give you that confidence. Sure, you can use your phone, which is, it's just. But that's just a shitty thing to do. That's you want to rely on that for your lifeline, hopefully, or your communication, or, you know, advanced yeah advanced navigation or something like that. You don't want to drop that when you trip over a light, because that light is just not that good. Right? So don't recommend that.
Tip for led lights, that if you, if you're battery, runs low and the thing gets so dim that it's not working, you can shut it off for like a minute and then turn it on. You'll get like 30 more seconds out of it, and then you can keep doing that. You can keep shutting it off and turning it back on, and it'll it'll give you bits of light as you're to get you off the trail.
Yes.
Don't do this, though. Just have an extra battery, or have an extra.
That's that's good to know. No, that's good. That's good. Macgyver. Shit right there, Fred. So we yeah. Also, I've you warm them up. That'll help, too. So you know. So put the flashlight down your pants so.
You should do that.
Great. Yeah. And I've been accused.
Can everybody do that? I don't. But that was what what everybody did.
It kind of is it could be let's see. Okay. So then, the second thing is the second part to that, as far as like what you should definitely carry with you around the northeast is for the weather like, what do you do, you guys? like some of the things that you might want to consider. Depending upon where you are right. I know that like I always try to plan that.
I might be fine, you know you think about like as a road, you know, especially if you're coming from the roadrunner standpoint. You're like. Yep, I'm going to show up at the race. I'm gonna you know, it's gonna be 30 degrees out or 25 degrees out. And I'm gonna run in my shorts, because that's what I do in a singlet, you know, because if I'm running I'm going to stay warm enough, which is all true. Right? Except.
Always.
Yeah, always true, except that now you're you're running the trail. So maybe it's technical. Maybe you're tired, and maybe you can't quite run as fast as you could, and then whoops! Oh, maybe you twisted your ankle and you have to sit down just to kinda shake it out for a little bit right You get cold, you can get cold very quickly. So I think, like you know, if I'm in an area where I think I would be in trouble if I had to sit there for any period of time.
You know what? I don't feel bad about throwing a you know I have a a lightweight puffy jacket that I throw in the back of my my vest. you know, especially if it's a longer run, and I'm gonna be out there so you know, and and I can't tell you how many times I've used my puffer jacket, or I've you know I've given it to so many people, you know, during runs, just because, you know. they've they've gotten cold, or whatever you know.
One of one of the classics is, if you're in a fixed time race like 24, or 48 h race on a shorter track. I don't mean track track, I mean, you know, shorter course people get cold, because in the middle of the night. One. It gets colder than you thought it was going to be, and 2 you slow down in the middle of the night. You're tired like hamster wheels. A classic example of that. It gets cold.
And everybody's walking, and it's 3 in the morning, and a puffy jacket is probably just barely enough to keep you warm.
Yeah, no right on it. It absolutely absolutely is. So. Yeah, that's that's a definite, you know, something you definitely want to have. Now, other thing is There's a jacket called a Houdini is basically what it is is a very lightweight windbreaker.
Hmm.
I find that gets me through about maybe 80 to 90% of what's out there. The exception being like a heavier rain right? So if it's a sustained rain, then you know, that's not going to cut it, and then you might need a a gore-tex jacket, you know a light gore-tex rain jacket. you know. That's closer to water. I hate to say waterproof, but.
It's closer to that right
You know, the colder it gets, or the greater probability of a heavier rain, the more you want to lean towards that. So I think that, like. you know, in the northeast, like those are the 3 minimums that I would definitely have. You know, one is having a you know a a thin you know that thin jacket, a puffer jacket, and then also a gore-tex rain shell. And you know, sometimes you're going to say.
I'm not gonna bring one of those because of the conditions that I'm going into, like, I just know it's not gonna be pouring rain, you know, and I'm pretty.
And then it's foreign green.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I can.
Well, I can tell you. I've been, you know, at the Cut, 112 I came out of the woods on Clapboard hill, and after the temperature went from being nineties down to the forties with driving rain, and if I didn't have my gore-tex shell to put on, I might have had to stop. You know, 4 miles from the end of 112 mile effort. So because I was about, I was about 4 min from a hypothermic. you know, being in trouble.
Hmm.
You know
Right.
So those are you know, those are the things. So is that, would you guys agree with that? That's just that's just my take on those types of jackets. Do you guys have something else that you rely on big time or on a regular basis?
No, I that makes sense. I I always love to have a the. You know that that jacket that you can just, you know, push into a small ball and and have it fit wherever and it's lightweight. But somehow, even though it's lightweight, it just gives you enough warmth. Hmm, yeah, yeah.
Having the the no lining windbreaker is a lifesaver so many times you can stuff it in such a small spot. You can just stick it in the back of your pack, or you can even just tie it around your waist. It's like, and you'll use it not all the time, but enough times that you're like. Oh, I'm glad I brought that.
Oh, yeah, yeah, no, no doubt that's that's helped me a bunch. Alright, so as far as I think we kind of covered what you should carry on a run, you know, as short of traction, you know, and and then then we're starting to get into more advanced stuff. But winter running might be a different animal than a lot of this. So the big things that people talk about, you know, once you get into winter running where?
I've had it, where I've left the center of the State in Connecticut, you know, around the Hartford area, Glastonbury, Glastonbury, Connecticut, in the belly of the Beast coast and driven to the Appalachian trail and gone to run there, and where there was no snow at my house. By the time I got there there was a crusty, icy snow up there.
and fortunately the one thing that I had which was completely inadequate, but it kept me from being completely in trouble was I had shoes that had sheet metal screws in the bottom of them. So you know the screws and shoes you just take a very short like 6, 36, you know. Number 6 screw sheet, metal screw, and you can screw those right into the bottom of your soles. And you know it's it keeps you from slipping. You know. A step up from that would be something like what they call a micro spike
and that's Kathulla makes those amongst other companies. Those are probably you know. They're like chains. They're like what you would put on a. They're like having car chains on your on your feet, but some other spikes there as well, and those will get you through an awful lot. You know those you can go into crusty ice and you know, if you kick in with those you know, through the ice that will
That'll save you in most situations. And then from there you go on to different types of snowshoes. And you know, if you're going into that for the 1st time you should probably have somebody who knows what they're doing, or just be careful with what you're doing. You know those have some big, you know some big cleats. And those to keep you from sliding around too, much so thoughts on that guys, you do those things, I agree them
Yeah, no, I, I totally agree.
Don't. Don't walk in with your spikes on on the little rug that's just inside your door, because she'll just tear it right up.
That's right. Yes.
I've hooked my rug almost fallen over, made a big pull in it. Yeah.
Gotcha gotcha. Yeah. I mean, there are other alternatives to like. Innovate makes a shoe called the Oroc ultra, which has I think they're titanium micro spikes built into it. and those are just like Th, those are pretty. Those are pretty great, too. But still, that's on the lighter action stuff that'll keep you from skidding across a you know, an icy log or a rock, or something like that. But you know, once it gets deep. You know. You, you know, you're gonna want something more. So.
An advocate of the sheet metal screws to turn any shoe into a ice running shoe. But there! It's not a complete substitute for something that you put on the bottom of your shoes.
Yeah, yeah.
That's sort of like a light version of it.
It is. Those are good to it's that's a good alternative to. If you're gonna use a snow blower on your lawn or on your on your driveway. That's a that's a great, you know. Those keep you from falling on your ass there, and also.
Do use it for that. Yeah.
And and they're also really good for days when you don't have complete snow cover. Because that's the problem with, you know, if you have spikes on big spikes. You can't run on the road with those things more than like if you run a hundred yards in those that's like a lot, you know, but if you have screws and shoes, you know what, hey? You can run on them, and you don't care if you wear them down so much, because, you know, it's like $2 worth of screws. Right? So.
So like 8 cents per screw, so.
Yeah.
It's nothing for a set of screws. Yeah.
I I don't know how you guys are keeping it straight faced. I just keep giggling.
Like us.
Sorry.
Screw. They keep saying group, and they're talking about.
$2 for some screws. Right? Yes. What would you pay for a screw together? Not $2.
And they're awesome if you want to tap dance, too, because they make like cool noises. So.
They are. Yes, you nobody hears you, you know. You can't sneak up on anybody with these things. Oh, damn it! Let's talk about some of our regional specifics. what do you guys think are the in the region, you know, in the northeast? Why don't you rattle off just some of what you think are must run trails or iconic spots, you know, just off the top of your head. This isn't meant to be a a total list of anything or or anything like that. What are you know? I can even start like so.
Northeast.
Yeah.
Northeast trails. You said. I'm gonna have you start.
Okay. So you know, in in Maine, you can start with. I would say, Acadia, right is is pretty cool stuff.
I've never been.
Oh, you should do that. Yeah, it's very, very nice there. You know Cadillac Mountain and some other some other places there, or Katahdin, right, which is the start of the Appalachian trail. You know where the finish of the Appalachian.
Finish, right.
You know, it's like Aloha. So it depends on which way you're going, and if you.
Get south of Katahdin Stream and on the at. There's some really nice runnable trail there in in Baxter State Park.
Hmm.
That'd be nice.
Yup, yup And then in Vermont, I guess you have. What the long trail there, right
Don't go up in mud season, though, unless you love mud.
Yeah. Massachusetts, what do we have in Massachusetts that you guys like.
We we need to.
Oh, yeah.
Jump into Jj. Duran, Duran.
Yeah, I, okay. So the Berkshire I know. Seriously. right? So yeah, you would call up Jj, and say, Yo, I'm coming. Yeah, that's exactly what you do. Yes.
Like we'll go. We're going up Greylock.
Yeah. So then certainly, you can go to you know, in New York there's just like there's so many different regions between the Adirondacks, you know, like Whiteface Mountain. Oh, in in Massachusetts. Also you could go to
Blue Health.
Yes, Blue Hills definitely, you know, outside of Boston. That's a hot spot. You can go to the the big mountain, the tallest mountain in the State is Greylock. You know. Great trail running there. you know, and then New Hampshire you know the White Mountains, I mean? That's like probably the the gem of the northeast. I guess you would say like, you know, that's probably
You know all all the the 48 4,000 footers there are just pretty amazing. And you know, as challenging as most of us can handle and or more and then New Jersey, or you know, or New York also has the Catskills. Then, you know, just just a a ton of other places.
Monks.
The gunks. Yes, yeah, yeah. That's where I proposed to my wife.
Was, gonna say, Arch, forget.
Oh, right? Yeah.
Life.
Yeah. Yeah. yeah. So that's that's great. Like Mohunk, you know. Go there, or Lake Minnewaska. Those are all great places, you know. Go to the Palisades. That's pretty cool stuff, and then you can go to Jersey and you have Ringwood Forest. You got the torn in Bootan Township. You got huaweonda. That's like New York border up by Ringwood Lake. The at runs through there Delaware Water Gap.
you know, there's there's a lot of places to run guys? So there's no, you know, no shortage, no matter what state you're in in the northeast. You know, there's there's a lot out there, you know Pennsylvania's got the whole Eastern States 100 course there.
and I have to say I haven't run that much. I've run the Delaware Water Gap, and you know, by Columbia and some of those things there. But, I always forget whether that's actually New York or or Pennsylvania. Excuse me, New Jersey or Pennsylvania there, but maybe it's like once you're halfway, or I guess you have to cross the river right.
And across the river.
Yeah, yeah, so.
Oh, it's the river! Isn't that part of a song?
I I think so.
There's a trailer North Arena to the Jersey side. There's a trail along the western side of the Delaware River in like in the poconos. But it's not really trailey. It's it's gravel.
Hmm.
It's called the Mcdade Trail, but it's about 35 miles long, maybe a little more. That goes, you know.
Sounds like an advertising agency, make the.
Aid. Yes.
Yeah, but it could be so. All right. let's see. And and apologies to any, you know. I'm sure that we missed a whole bunch of South Mountain you know, and all Kim in, you know, South Mountain is is wonderful in New Jersey. you know Eagle Rock and a bunch of bunch of places there, too. Let's see. boy, I think we kind of covered a lot of a lot of this stuff kind of spilled over into.
T.
One or another, so.
Yeah.
But let's see. So what are some of the trail etiquette stuff beginners should be concerned about, or or should you know should be aware of. Do you guys, can you guys think of that?
I I just think of I I live right on on the the airline trail, and just running like run. Stay to your right. In in, you know, passing people. Let them know you're passing. It just drives that kind of can drive me a little bit crazy and also a lot of times I I just always assume that nobody can hear me coming from behind. Because either you're kind of in your own land, or you've got headphones in, or whatever. So you know, just
I'll either like do something silly, like cough or something, or just when I'm within like 15 feet of someone. I'll I'll be like, Good morning or Good afternoon, just so that I'm not scaring the bejesus out of them. So
Becky, you cast a very large figure. Right? They're like, Oh, my God! Yes.
Who is that menace.
My God! I hope it doesn't bite me in the ankles.
Yeah.
But yeah, it's great.
Advice, though, to like, let people, when you're overtaking, let them know that you're coming by, because you'll freak people out.
Yeah, yeah.
Particularly if it's more remote. The trail, you know.
Yeah, I think you should.
Single, track. Yeah.
You should do that on the roads or on the trails. But you're right, especially on the trails, because they're figuring. you know, in a lot of these places. They haven't seen anybody in a while. They're not expecting anything. They're hiking pretty damn fast in their minds, and you come up. you know you come up and pass them, you know. Always say, Hey! Coming up behind you on the left.
you know, or whatever. And then I think the other thing is to keep in mind is that if you're comfortable and you feel safe. you know, engage with people that you see on the on the trails, because I don't know most, you know, when you see somebody out there running on the trails. What's that? What's that like? What's that feel like to you guys?
It's like one of my peeps.
Yeah, it's family.
Make you feel a little camaraderie.
And then sometimes you get your art on. And you say, like, Hey, I started all the way down at Long Island Sound today I've been going.
Yeah.
Wait. Where? Where'd you come from? Right? Like, right there. Oh, okay, that's good, too. Can you.
Believe the weather in New Haven last night. Yes, the sun was setting. It was crazy, I mean. God. yeah.
That is funny.
Odendah likes to do that too.
Yeah, we call that paddling.
Lap around Lake Wormog. What are you doing.
That's right. We call that paddling our douche canoes. Yeah. So.
Yeah.
Don't be afraid to do that, you know. It's always it's always fun.
Let me get into the controversial part. If you're gonna wear headphones. or you know, earbuds or something, be aware of people around you, and and like be ready to get to the side of the trail because it it's kind of frustrating if you're overtaking someone which is not my problem now, but was years ago. If you're overtaking someone, and they've got earbuds in, and they're like listening to something, and they're.
And Podcast.
The oblius, you know. Hello! I'm behind you. I'm coming up on your left, and they're like La la, la! You know.
Then you see them, and they yell at you.
Yeah. And then they're like, you scared the crap out of me. And you're like dude, really. Yeah, you were singing black and back in black, like at the top of your lungs. I you know you had your buds in. Yeah, come on.
So if you're going to wear headphones in the woods yourself, like a good option might be a bone conducting right like.
Yeah.
Shocks. You know, those are the ones that aren't actually in your ears, but kind of sit next to them. And you can basically hear people coming up behind you, or you know.
You're in a race, and like people are going to be passing each other. And you're allowed to wear buds because a lot of times. They just say no in races. 1st of all, if they say No, you should, you should follow that. Don't say like, Oh, those rules don't apply to me. But yeah, if you're in a race, and so like, there's a couple 100 people on the trail
you should probably be very aware of, like like hyper, aware that people are going to be passing you because they are. And one of the things I just don't use them except at night, because at night you'll see their light coming up behind you, and then you'll know somebody's above.
Oh, look at that.
Yeah.
Right. That's no, that's true. That's that's that's very true. So yeah, that's absolutely I I had that happen running running Boston Marathon ran through Wellesley right! And the just the tunnel, the scream tunnel! Everybody's screaming their heads off, having a great time, and I turned to the person next to me, and I said that was pretty amazing, huh! And then.
Yeah.
She like introduced herself to me like, but didn't like say like. Didn't acknowledge what I said, because she didn't hear me, because she had like her.
Phone's on.
Headphones in, and she like she like missed that experience, you know, which was mine, you know. I mean, everybody's got to do their own thing. Okay, I'm not saying everybody's gotta be as fucking awesome as I am. But you know it's.
Well, I mean, can they? They can try. But obviously they're not gonna.
No, but so it's you're right, Fred, I think, like especially earlier in races where people are group together, or if you have a looped course where faster people are going to be coming by. then you wanna make sure that that that you're aware of the other people. And then the other stuff that we probably already know about like leave no trace.
You know, and that involves a couple different things like it's not just like don't litter right? Because I think we all kind of know that but it also means, like, you know, stay on the trail. you know. Don't like. Don't take switch, you know. Don't take. Don't cut switch backs, you know. We're not fucking, you know we're not unless you're in Europe. I guess I do that. There, that's cool.
Yeah. Killian got got Dq'd out one of one of the western races for cutting the switchbacks. Yeah. So.
So don't run like. Is that all right?
You know.
The people.
Yeah, don't run like killing. But one of the things that I used to do and I don't anymore is if you're in a lot of times you're in a race with like a couple 100 people, and there's kind of a boggy section, and you can see that some people run around the mud. But what you're really doing is just making the bog bigger. So you really should just run into the.
Yes, true.
The right thing to do.
Into the mud.
Yeah, just go into.
It is.
That's part of why you're running trails. Yeah.
Yeah.
30? Why not.
That's right. I think they call that braiding. After a while it's where somebody run, you know. The trail starts out, and then it gets a puddle in it, and then, you know, half the people decide to go to the right, and half the people decide to go to the left. And now, all of a sudden, you have a 3 lane, you know, a single track that turned into a triple track right? So those get muddy, and then somebody. Then they create another one, and pretty soon it's just this, like.
you know, Giant, you know, Giant Shit track. So let's not make giant shit tracks out there.
And and I, when you were saying about the you know just going through. I I think of a couple of years ago for and notch for you when it was that that crazy weather that it rained so much that you know a lot of races had to be cancelled, including the Vermont 100. And
I, you know, did a hundred mile race in that in that weather, and it it even got to. I think one of the things, too, is sometimes when you when you see that there's like this puddle or something. And you think, Oh, I'm gonna go around. It's gonna make it easier. Besides that, it's not good for the environment. It actually, I think a lot of times is even more slippery. So it's I think, most of the time it's worth it to just go
straight through than to try and go on the slides, where every sides, where everything is so much more. I don't know. I just feel like that's when I have a tendency to slip or fall more when I'm like. I don't want to get my shoes dirty or.
That's true. That can be slippery. That grass on the side can be really slippery. Yeah.
Yes, yes.
That, said the Fall, fling and spring fling when you're under the power lines there where that little that that little catwalk is. Yes, are slippery. If you're you're on the grass, it's slippery.
Bree.
The catwalk. You're taking your life in your hands.
That's that's a good race to have those that. Those Orocs innovate Oroc ultras for that, because you won't fall off the bridges with those that'll keep you. you know. That'll keep you on top of the bridges. So keep it up all right. So let's talk about like, okay, so we're talking about trail etiquette and safety. For a 1 of the biggest fears that people going into trail running have is, I'm afraid of getting lost right.
So what do you guys do to is there anything that you guys do, or any tricks that you have to keep from getting lost?
From getting lost.
Yeah.
Honestly, this is gonna sound kind of crazy. But I think if you're if you're somewhere that isn't too big like I'm thinking of. Well, not some people might not know this area, but like heard State Park or Wadsworth, or something where it it's it you're not in acres and acres and acres of of land is I almost. I know it's gonna sound trick crazy, but just almost try to get myself lost. Where I just just
venture and go this way and go that way. And for me, that helps me to to see that. Oh, okay, I ended up on over here. And okay, there is a way out onto the road from here, or I'm over this way. And there is another path over here. I think sometimes when you when you go on to trails, and you stick to the the same route. If you do happen to kind of go off trail it. It can be a little bit harder to find your way back, so.
Hmm.
And and I say that again, knowing that it's something that you know. It's not that big you can, you know. Come out. There's different places you can come out that it. I think it can be helpful.
Gotcha gotcha! That's I think that's a great you touched on something that that. I like to call the playpen So when I go to a a place, especially one that I don't know or even one that I kind of know. A lot of times. I don't care where I'm running like, unless I'm trying to get somewhere specific. You know. I don't usually care so much where I'm going. I just want to go for a run, and then like, avoid getting too far from where I'm going, and also but just also know what
you know. Also, just kind of know what I'm you know ultimately where I'm going to be. what the restraints are, so what the playpen looks like to me is. I'll look, and I'll say, Okay, this is the parking lot, and this is where I'm going in. and this is the road that I drove in on to get to the parking lot, and this road constitutes. I'm sorry about that noise.
Oh, such a! I know.
That and that. This road constitutes the northern border, and then I'll look on the map and I'll see. Oh, the southern border happens to be power lines, and then the you know the eastern border might be a river. So all of a sudden, I know that. Okay, I can run, and if I hit the power lines.
Hmm.
I know I'm at that border, so I'll just stay in that right pen. Right? I know that, hey? That's as far as that direction that I want to go, and then I can just bounce around in an appropriate area in my playpen. And then, you know, like you said, you start to understand that. Oh, this trail kind of goes over here, and then it doesn't really matter. Until I want to leave, you know, and then it gets easier, you know. It gets easier to you know, to understand. So.
Yeah, let's just takes like a little bit of research, right? You have to know where the brackets are in your playpen, like.
Yes.
This river. That means I'm on the eastern side of this. If I hit like Smith Road, I've hit it to the north if I, yeah. And so you can always orient yourself. And you have all these ways of getting out of it. Yeah, yeah, you can also. But if you have a trail run. You can also, like, put it up on like all trails, and it'll just give you your exact trail. Run so you you can't get lost.
Yes, yes, but I mean for me, I generally. I don't like to have to. you know. I I don't.
Phone out. You don't want your phone out.
Yeah, I don't, because, like honestly for me, especially in the northeast here. Sometimes it's so humid, and I get so sweaty that, like I can't turn my phone on and you know, and and turn.
Yeah. Your fingers are so sweaty that it's not like it's not reacting to your.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. So once it's like that, then I don't wanna get. And plus I'm you know, that that takes a lot of time for me to constantly look at that. So any of the mapping that I do. I I do generally. If I have a route that I wanna follow, I do that on my watch, and it's it's seamless. You know, Becky and I just did a
I cannot figure out how to do that on my watch.
Oh, I'm gonna show you. But I I get the route on my watch and we did a we did a 20.
You did a great run yesterday.
Sunday.
Sunday, Sunday, Sunday.
And it involves some bushwhacking and some other things like that.
Water crossing. Yeah. Flip-flop. Finding.
It was pretty amazing. What was that.
Flop doing out there, I mean, why won.
It was a flood.
But yeah.
That was the question, Fred.
Was-? Why was Art holding it in in.
Below that.
A while, I mean.
That it came to me that answer. If I found a flip up you would hold it.
It matched my pack. Okay, right there you go.
That was not as much a mystery, Becky, how it got there! That was the mystery.
Yes. Yeah. So.
If I can like just thinking, though, back to what you were saying about a, as I was saying. And you guys are saying, too, about the you know, the being in the playpen and kind of getting lost. I do have to say, though from the other side of it that there are in that there are certain certain trails or certain areas that I definitely wouldn't do. Let me just run to get lost. Because and I'm I'm probably not shocking to everyone. One of the things I'm thinking of is is the mesh
Hmm.
Said Forest, which is around around us. And it's a really big big area in And so that's something that for me, I I don't want to get. There's and there's so many different trails off of that. I don't know that area enough to to just go and be like, I'm gonna you know, I'm gonna venture all over and find things because I know my limitations. And I know what I don't know about there around there, so I wouldn't.
I wouldn't do it in that in that area. So I think it's it is one of those important things that you kind of I mean duh like that that you know.
Yes.
What areas you're, you know you're in. I've run with people that are really good at navigating certain types of of terrain or areas where they're like. Oh, based on what I'm seeing here must need to go to the south, West, to the I don't know. And I'm like.
I I think the mesh is about as difficult as as difficult as you're gonna find in Connecticut. As far as like
Really is.
Getting lost because you have to figure it's I think it's the second largest state forest. And then it is there's I think there's really only one marked trail in the whole thing. Every everything else is like a series of you know, just Atv trails or single track, mountain bike trails or deer trails or hunter trails.
To get off, and then and then, all of a sudden, you're like, Wait a minute. Okay.
But.
And that's the other thing is for people to think about is to always It would, you know, if you do get if you do feel like you're getting lost is, you know, you can always retrace your steps.
I would say. You know, doing that sooner versus later. I know there's times when I've been like I think I should retrace my steps, and then I'm like, no, no, no, let me go a little farther. Oh, no, let me just go a little farther, and and then I God, if I just re retraced my steps, you know, 5 min ago it would have been a lot easier than.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's that's so much that that's very true, especially when it's when you're going on a marked trail. You know, especially like if we're talking about Connecticut. Specifically, the blue blaze trails like if you're if you're following a blue blaze trail and you all of a sudden don't see a marker, and you take any more than 10 steps, and you can't see one
in front of you or in back of you. You're off trail, and you can pretty much be guaranteed that. You know that it's that that trails there and you probably just missed something, or maybe a tree fell that had your marker on it ablaze. So you know, there's few exceptions to that. But so all right. And then there's also like you know, there's several GPS programs that you can follow. But then. you know, some, just it always makes sense to know
that playpen, you know, in the mesh. What I do is I look at the main roads. You know. I know where the main roads are, so I know whether I'm between Del Reeves, and you know woodchoppers, or or wherever you know. I know what the right roads are, and then I know that I'm not going to end up, you know, because you could end up 10 miles away, you know, and then have to run back. And
you know that can be that can be tough. So let's see, what's how about wildlife? That's like something else that people get uptight about? What do you guys think about wildlife out there? And are there any precautions that you take, or what's your experience been with that? Fred? I led a pretty wild life when I was younger, but I've calmed down quite a bit. so I hear.
But on phone.
I I have not encountered anything that I found threatening. I've seen Bear. but, like you know, other than that.
Is you.
You know a lot of deer, occasional bobcat, but bobcats don't like come at you, you know. They're just doing their thing and usually running away when they see you. Yeah, I. You know they're black bear, and they're and you know, in theory you could get in a situation where it was a mama bear, and you got between the mama and the cubs, and that would be Dicey. But it's never happened to me.
Gotcha gotcha back. How about you.
Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm fortunate that I think the hardest and I most scariest thing that I came across was in Utah when I got in between a buffalo and its babies.
Oh, yeah.
4 miles with like 4 miles left of 100 k, and I was like, you know, and I had to go off course and go all like really far around them to to get by. And but I knew that it's what I needed to do. But I think what I thought of when you were saying that is well, I don't have any allergies
I think of like people that have allergies like they're allergic to bees or allergic to certain insect, or something like that or even different foods. I think when you're in the woods. If you have certain allergies, I think you have to be a little bit more cautious in in making sure that you have what you need, because it it can be a little bit harder to, I'm just imagining, like you're running on the road. You get stung by a bee like, and and you're able to.
you know. Go into somewhere, get some help if you don't happen to have your bee sting kit on you. If you're in the woods and you're by yourself, and you had to run back out and you're it. It just could percept like that.
Yeah, I do.
It's just, I think.
As somebody who is deathly afraid of yellow jackets and hornets and all that stuff I really am. It's like my biggest that's like my biggest nightmare. you know I I think what I do is that, especially when it gets to be the summertime, and the early fall I stay on trail. I don't wander off the trail. I and I. Honestly, I don't go on. group runs at that time, either. That's just my my choice. But.
Wait. You don't go on. Group runs during during the summer.
Yeah during the late summer. Because what what'll happen is that if there's a nest in the trail, generally speaking, you can run over the top of it, and they'll be pissed off.
3rd or 4th person goes over. Then they're ticked.
Yeah. Yeah. And they come. You know, you run over. It's like banging on somebody's door. It takes like 10 seconds for them to know. you know somebody's at the door, but you know so. But you know, after a couple of people go over the top, then it gets to be trouble also going off trail. I think you're much more likely to. You know the ground is not, as you know, on trail. It's generally more compact and less conducive to a nest.
You know. So I'm just very. I'm petrified to go off trail. It's kind of like a phobia of mine. So but I have heard a friend of ours, Andy Meisler. I think he went off trail, or he was out running and got into a nest, and I think he got stung like 10 or 15 times, and.
Feel like I know about this.
Yeah. And he happened to have some benadryl because he took a wilderness 1st Aid course, and they told them to carry Benadryl with them. So we.
It just happened.
He happened to have that with him, and he was not allergic to bees. But after getting stung.
After that many.
It did. Yeah, it got to him. So he did that, and was able to get himself out of there and you know. and and.
Wow! Lived another day because of it. So as as far as bears are concerned, in the in the northeast. I've run into them where they.
Where they don't want to leave, you know. You generally, you see, a bear, and it's like it's like they're just scared shit of you, and they can't get out of their way fast enough to run away, you know, or you yell at them. You know. I always make sure that I make some.
You get into a little argument.
Give him a hay bear, but I've had it where they send the cubs up the tree, and sit there looking at me as I'm yelling and are not moving, you know, and that kind of thing where I had to go around them, only to find out that there was somebody on the trail behind them. So we kind of had them surrounded. So that's why Bear didn't go. And I didn't. I? Obviously I didn't know that. But somebody had been following this mom and her cubs. So
but yeah, when you see a bear, you want to make yourself known, or you know animals, you want to make yourself known so that you're not surprising them. And generally, they're gonna they're gonna run away from you. So other things.
And you know we we all had that
that joint experience of all of us when the 3 of us were together, and we saw the bear, and I have to say art was the smart one, because you were like, give it space, and I don't know if it was. I know I was one of the culprits. I don't know if it was me and Fred or me and Reagan that were like I want to get closer. I want to get. I kept kind of like walking. I mean, we weren't going up to trying to pet it, but it was intriguing to see to see the bear, but we gave it.
What?
Face. Yeah, so so it was very cool, anyways.
Yeah, yeah. Other thing is snakes. Right? So in the north. You got all sorts of snakes. Most of them are not gonna bother you and are not going to be a problem like, you know, Garter snakes makes.
Son, you know.
Those sometimes those big black snakes. You'll see them in the hot summer. You'll see them in the trees at night, you know.
That would really creep me out.
It does. It's it's I'm not gonna lie to you. It freaks you out, but it doesn't. Generally they're not too much trouble like they're not going to come after you if they bite you. It's you know. I I don't know anybody who's gotten bitten by them. I'm sure it happens, but I don't. I don't know anybody who has, so it's it's a low probability.
But it's not like poisonous.
Like. People say they have a really bad temper, but I've never known anybody who's actually been bitten by one of them.
Yeah. Yup.
I'm always just afraid that I'm not gonna be paying attention. I'm just gonna step on one.
Yeah, I.
Not like, oh, I'm gonna step on one and kill it. I'm just gonna step on one. And it's gonna like with its head around and just.
Yeah.
Take a nice nice bite on my leg.
I I think most of the time you see it, because, like. even if you process it as a stick, you're not gonna want to step on a stick. So you're gonna like, naturally avoid them right? The one you know, the exception being I did have a timber rattler that was stretched out across the trail. you know. Probably a you 5 foot one or something 4 foot pretty big like, you know, enormous. It was really really big and
The size of Connecticut. Yeah.
So. No, there was. There was a big timber rattler stretched out across the trail and I ran up on it on the schnipps it and jammed on my brakes. and it you know, started rattling at me, and, you know, coiled up and was. you know, all sorts of pissed off, but I just didn't try.
Then it was like, Are you our Byram? And you said yes, and then it just said they.
Yeah, no. So finally it, it was nice and moved on so that I've seen them up on the at as well in New York. and then the other thing to see we see around here is Copperheads on occasion. So
I feel like there's been so like quite a few times where, like you're saying like, I'm running, and it's and I'm not about to step on it or anything. But it's just as I'm running all of a sudden, I'm like, Oh, my God! I'm running over us, you know, running over a snake, or I'm you know a snake is like in the woods, but just just off into the woods, and as I'm going to hear it like slither away. And you're like you know.
Yeah. So you scream and laugh at yourself. Right? Yes, yes, that's what I usually do. So.
That's what. Yeah.
But again, that's it's it's not a reason not to go into, you know. It's nothing that should keep you out of the woods. you know, because it is a it's a it's a low percentage, you know. I mean, there's certain days where you'll see snakes out there, but like rattlesnakes. really, as far as like in connection.
Is there a certain trail on the blue block.
Yeah, I'm not gonna talk.
Like.
We're not gonna talk about it specifically, because I don't want to make that really publicly known. But
No, and I won't either. But there, there is, like certain places where you're.
Yeah. It was very.
Definitely braces. It's.
Very few places, though it's not like a common. It's not a common thing like in Connecticut. and and I don't, you know, just my my end of one here is, I saw I saw a rattlesnake one time, you know, when I was running. I've seen them other times, but when I was out for a trail run, and I've done hundreds, you know, whatever I've done many, many miles.
All of the blue blaze trails.
Yeah, I've.
All of them.
All of them count them and I saw one. I saw one snake that one time that I just told you there and you know, but in in New York I saw some, but you know, for the most part they're they're pretty. It's not like.
The best part, like I feel like we go by them. We have no idea.
Yeah, yeah. So it's not.
So like all these other animals that it's like you're running. And you're like, I wonder how many animals are staring at me right now.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, because they see you, and they just kind of quiet and just good thing.
Bye, bye.
Right, pounding.
Yeah, especially if you're if you're me. They hear the the bob.
Bye.
So. All right. So that's That's 1 of the one of the things so like. Let's see as as far as like wildlife, so
Yeah, just to put it cap on this.
Go ahead!
I'm not sure that anybody got mauled by a bear in Connecticut this past year, or bit by a snake. You know. I think that someone's dog may have encountered a copperhead or something, and and got a snake bite. But it's really pretty rare.
Yeah, you're you're much more likely to get in a car accident driving to the trailhead.
Oh, God, yeah. Yes.
Hands hands down so. But don't bring your cars on the trails. Yeah, I don't think mentioned that right.
This is not an invitation to travel.
Darn!
And you couldn't drive that far, anyway. So all right. So let's talk about I guess. Like the best way to connect with the local trail running community. What do you guys think? And maybe this is just like obvious. But like. you know, what should, what are ways that people like become a Patreon of culture. Right? Oh, yeah, right?
Get a nickname, a derisive nickname.
Exactly.
And you know it'll be wonderful.
That's right.
Go to a race. You're at a race. Yeah, yeah.
Think that is, that's huge.
A group run like a trail, mixers, group run, or something, or stairs, or something. Yeah.
Introduce.
Yeah, I think that's even even though for me, personally, like I, I tend to get a little overwhelmed, even though I talk all the time in big groups. I do think when you're getting into trail running, or you're going on to terrain, that you haven't been on before, or distance, or just something new, I think, being in a big group where
where there's that opportunity to, you know. Slow down, and you've still got people behind you, or you know, you're in between groups, but you can still see the person in front of you. I think that's that's really more so than when you're out running on the roads. I think that's really helpful to have and know that there is that there's people around you. When you're on the trails.
Yep. So yeah, so Facebook groups, right? And a lot of these running.
Oops!
Group runs and some of them are geared towards beginners, so that you don't have to worry about your pace, or whatever you really only need, you know, one or 2, you know, 1 1 other person to run with, you know, and and that's you know.
or or you can. Even if you're gonna run by yourself, just tell somebody where you're going. And when you're gonna come back, you know, that's like the other big like safety you think like don't get out there where nobody knows where you are, and nobody knows that you were going there, even because that could be. You know you don't want that. Yeah. Have that peace of mind just.
Because groups are pretty friendly, though, like if you showed up Saturday morning at the West Rock ramp.
Blueprint.
You would meet people. It's a no drop run, you.
Well, except but if you see, like Jamie Myler, or so.
Yeah. Well, they'll go faster ahead.
Graph yeah.
I mean that riffraff is.
Than I am.
But you see, you get to meet the staff people too.
Well, I was thinking more that they're just not friendly people that like to run with others.
Oh, yeah, for sure.
I'm joking, Stan.
They had, that on the.
So those.
The West Rock Ramblers are.
A report.
Very nice people doesn't, doesn't play, don't play well with others.
Yes.
That's why they started a running group right? Because they don't like people. Yeah.
Correct. Correct? Okay. So now, like, we took a poll probably 5 years ago with trail runners and asked, Okay, what is your biggest. What do you think the biggest fear runners have? What is one of the biggest fears that runners have? And we asked them, I think, for their top 5 things, and like it wasn't animals, and it wasn't like falling, and it wasn't getting.
I don't know.
It was. I'm afraid I'm gonna poop myself. So you know what shit happens. So maybe we can. Maybe we can talk about pooping in the woods right? So you know.
I think it's I think it's so much better like. I would much rather be on a long run in the woods, and have to go to the bathroom than be on a long run on the roads, because I don't. There's always a tree that you could find to go behind.
There's not always a nice sidewalk right.
There isn't, or like where you're like. Okay, can I? Can I go into this store? Oh, no, they're not gonna let me, because I'm not you know. I'm not a customer, or I can't go here or there, I just. and going in the woods.
You. You go into those public bathrooms and they're scary. So going in the woods, at least like you control the environment a little bit more. Right? So.
Yes.
Like. Here are my! My quick takes on it. 1st of all, obviously, you want to get off the trail, despite the fact, you know, hopefully, not a place where there's bees right. But you want to get off the trail. You're not going to poop on the trail. That's not. That's not cool. Okay, do we have to say that even.
Miss.
No, but I do have to say just one side note is that I do feel like.
On the trails. I feel like sorry guys, but I feel like men are much better at getting putting in an effort to get away from people when they tinkle when they're on a trail than on a road. Maybe I'm just thinking of different road races that I've done where it's like some will take like 2 steps off of the off of the course. And like they're turned the other way. But I'm like, Okay, you're you're like 2 feet away from me
like this is kind of, but I feel like in a trail race. I I you don't see that where somebody like you're on the trail, and you look, and somebody's like a foot off the trail. I feel like whether you're whatever it is you people are doing, whether they're peeing or doing other things. That that men women like they make a better effort to.
Yeah.
Screen, which is kind of funny that they well, they've got 3. The woods.
Yeah, we have natural.
More of an effort.
We have natural obstacles out there which are great, you know. So so that's 1 thing. So get off the trail. And if you know what if you can duck behind a tree or find a good place like a if you know that like, say that you're in a race, and you know everybody is going to be making a right turn on the trail.
But the trail keeps going straight. Maybe where that trail goes straight is a good place to to stop. Right. You go off the trail, go up 10 or 15 feet there, and then get off. You know, another 5 feet off the trail, and you got your own private paradise there. So so other other tips are know, before you go right. So you always have to have like a plan for a white. Okay, like you don't want to like, go and then say, like, Okay, now, what do I do? Right.
You don't. You don't want to get poison, ivy.
Yes, so I've always said.
Like.
Yes, you want to make sure that you when it comes to leaves, stick to the name brands. Okay, that means like, you're not going to go and say, Oh, I wonder what kind of leaf that is? I've never tried that. Let me, you know. Let me see what that is. give that a little swipe. No, no, no, you don't want to put that put leaves on. What parts would we be touching with our leaves?
Like. I don't even not the jibbles or the jabbles, but maybe in the the back dabbles.
Yeah, the back dabbles. You don't want to be dabbling.
Impact devils. No, we don't want to be devils.
Questionable.
Well, actually, women, you don't want to dabble any. Yeah. But do you know, this is gonna sound crazy? But and maybe this is more just because of who I am as a weird individual. But when I have to go to the bathroom, when I have to go to the bathroom in the woods. Whether it's a race or I'm in a group, I actually do tend to announce it.
which you would think that people would be like, I don't want anyone to know, like I'm gonna sneak off. But I I announce it because of the fact that I kind of want to just make it normal. And I want people to kind of hear like, Oh, okay, this person's gonna go to the bathroom and not kind of be. you know, like looking over that way, or something just.
Yeah.
And then, yeah, so I'll just be like.
You're raising people where.
Like I am, or when and then, but also when I'm like, then kind of like coming back out of the woods, I'll like kind of announce myself as I'm coming out of the woods. I'll be like just coming out of the woods from a little break, because I have in other people have done it to me, too, where I've like scared the Bejesus out of people, or they've like scared the bejesus out of me.
By bejesus we mean well, never mind.
Yes, if there was, if I hadn't already pooped, they'd be scaring the poop out of me.
Yes. So when we say name brands we're talking about like the basics, like maple is a great one, right? Like everybody knows what a a maple leaf looks like Canada people. Yeah, Canada. If you see one of those like, make sure that there's a plenty of those. And if it's the summer that's better. But you know, if it's.
No leaves of 3. Right? Yeah. Leaves of 3. Let them be.
Yeah. And if you know that it's an oak tree, and you're 100% sure. that's okay. But if it's like an oak bush.
No.
That can be that can be really troublesome. So.
Beautiful.
Stick to what you definitely know, or ferns or skunk cabbage. All those are approved. That's.
Or just bring some napkins with you, or toilet paper or tissue.
That would be silly.
On on rail trails a lot of times. There are grape leaves, too, because because grapes grow along the rail trails and.
Oh, yeah.
Grape leaves are like the gold standard. They're really big.
Yes, sure. But make sure you know what they are, because that's.
Stall of Porta Johns.
Yes, it is. It's like.
I've made mistakes there, you know there's but like skunk cabbage is like scented toilet paper.
It's definitely something.
So I think enough said on that. But you know, like, if you're gonna have, if you have if you can carry out that stuff in a baggie. and I mean, you know.
Wait! Wait! Wait! Wait! Wait! Wait!
Not, if.
Wait a minute.
About like a wipe or something like that. If you're gonna do that.
Oh, okay, alright. I'm thinking that you're thinking like bringing a bring, bringing like a doggy bag like a like.
Some places.
No.
Some places. That's the rule. Some places, that's the rule. So.
Dig a hole.
It is. No, no, sometimes digging a hole is not good.
They don't even want you to dig a hole in the lab.
Do that. That's not allowed. You have to show.
Alright! I'm not running there.
Yeah. Okay. Alright, that's
Good to know. So then, that I know.
That's right.
Limitation of mine that I know you know what.
You can live I can't leave with. I can't bring out what I brought in, so I'm just not going in. That's right. If I can't make my mark, and if you can't handle it, then, you know, that's that's the way it is. So okay. And then the other one is one thing that could happen in the woods that can be tormenting at certain times of the year are the inevitable northeast mosquitoes and black flies.
And.
Now, usually it's it's not something that happens all the time. But sometimes when they hit you, that can be tough. So you guys have any tricks that you like, Becky. What have you done like you had? You have some like bulletproof things. Read it to them, mesh. During like one of the heights of bug season. How did yeah.
One of the best things that I've gotten was, and this helps with obviously with the heat, too. But was I had bought, and especially, for you know the the protection is, I have a long sleeve shirt that had, like the long, literally sleeves and a hood, and that's what I wore in the woods, and I had the hood on the whole time, and that was huge, because the bugs weren't coming to me. I think covering your ears. And then I also actually had.
If you can go online and buy them, they're like bug covers. It's it almost looks like a bag. It's a net, and again it goes over your head, and I had on the hood and the net, and there's other times where I've just had the net on especially at the net with a hat, so that it kind of goes around, and that just makes such a huge huge difference. I know that this this coming year, like once I start to get into the summer months, that's that's become one of the things that I
I try not to leave the house without it, so, cause I would. I would rather not need it, and be in the woods than be in the woods, and I've got.
Hmm.
Just just like this for me, the sound of even if the gnats aren't actually on me. That sound of the buzzing, or whatever near my head drives me crazy. So if I can have something covering my ears in my head, then that would be great, so bring a cover. You might look like an idiot, but.
Gotcha. Okay.
You'll be happy.
That's during the extreme part, right? So other things are like a sometimes, if you just have a like a buff, you know which is like a like a neck gaiter, and you wear that, or you wear that on top of your head with a hat or I found also wearing a baseball cap backwards, works pretty well, because then, you know, I can.
Yeah, cover the head. You just gotta cover that.
One of those. Cover your melon.
With the thing coming off the.
Yes.
Yeah, that works.
Yeah. The Foreign Legion Hat.
Yes, yeah, that works really well, because biting flies love you at the back, ear and neck. They.
They do?
Attacking the back here.
We do. And and fortunately that's not that doesn't happen all the time. But you know when it does, you gotta you just, you know, especially if it's going to be an all day thing. You know you can slap yourself silly killing flies, you know. Other people, I know. Put adhesive strips on the back of their hat right.
Yeah, I've seen that.
Crutchly does.
Oh, that's.
Some of that. So there's some some tricks online. But that's just something to be be aware of. Other thing is God. We're making this sound fucking miserable right? The other part is after after running in the northeast. You also want to check for ticks. Right? So. Do a full again, you know. Look, you know, just
as you're getting into the car, you know, after I'm done when I'm in the parking lot, I just. And this is just going to sound a little weird. But I just I take my hands and I put them up high on my shorts, and I just run my hands down, my legs, checking like for any ticks that might be there.
Sure. That's that's what that's why you're doing that.
Yeah, as everybody watches. I do this on top of my car. I usually stand on the hood or on the roof on my car, you know.
No.
And yeah, so check yourself completely, you know. before you check yourself before you wreck yourself. That's right, chickety, check yourself. Tickety tech. Yes, and then.
Do it again in the shower, too. Do another tick check in the shower.
Yes.
In your home.
And check your back.
Yeah, I know it's giving me the Heebie Jeebies.
In your chat.
Jibbles and jabbles.
Get there! And they will get there.
They got a once track, mind, they're running an ultra right to crotch city Spot.
Don't you always think about like? Have you ever watched naked and afraid like? I mean, there's many reasons why I would not go on that show, nor would they want me on that show, nor would they make it more than an hour on the show. But my biggest thing is, how are you walking around naked, like whatever? Okay, naked. But but you're you're you're Bajab.
Here.
Are out there, and there's insects and stuff, aren't they crawling like.
If you sit like. If you sit down, how do you put the the stick and the berries on a log right? It's like.
Very gently.
Yeah, I don't know.
Look! That's just that. But.
Yeah.
On a more serious note. One of the things, too, that I've noticed, and I don't know if you were to talk about this, but is I think last week we were kind of joking about compression socks, and how like, you know, they were like a fad. And then and then they weren't so as much. But
though having compression socks when I run in the trails, I think is very helpful. If even if they're not compression. They're just longer socks. It's easier for me to see when there are ticks. But also it's something to think about, for if you are someone that, you know
tends to, you know. Roll your ankle a little bit easier, or something like that. It's just a habit that I have is is when I run on the trails I either wear like the really short, shorter compressions, or just say I always wear like a a tighter sock. That kind of keeps my ankle more stabilized.
Good. No, that's that's that's that's sound that that works last thing to mention is just as you're going out there. The one thing we didn't talk about was you know, you want to make sure that you have. If you're going and you're you're gonna go for a longer run right. You got to work out your nutrition because.
You know there's no Cumberland farms that you can dunk it. You know that you can drop into.
So.
With in New, in New England there may be.
There may be.
Be like a hundred feet off the trail right like. Oh, a Duncan! Look.
The south. We got our wawas, or yes, 7 elevens, you know. We got.
No, that's a good. That is a good point. and even doing something where people have I mean, depending on how far they're going or whatever, but have created like little like drop bags where they all hang them from a tree or something. But but yeah, it is something that you have to be a little bit more.
Yeah. And these are more advanced things that you get into. But then, you know, you can look at things like water filters. We could talk about that for a bit. And you know, having so having sources of water where you can filter water from streams, it's not as you know, it's not, as you know, grills as it sounds, but it's like it's something that once you get used to it. It's not. It's not a big deal and then.
Fun like not I don't know. There's just.
Yeah.
I think when when I'm at a point where I'm like, oh, no, I don't have enough water. I gotta. I gotta filter some like it's just kind of like exciting.
Yeah, I, think, right.
You know, to be like, oh, I'm gonna drink caca.
Right, but it's filter.
Weird.
Right now. An all around solution. Yes, an all around solution is the be free which is like, just basically it's a water bottle with the filter on it. That's a soft flask that you can kind of squeeze, and you know, fill the water filter the water to drink. So So listen, we've gone a while here, so I think we gotta kind of wrap things up. What do you think we've maybe missed tonight. Is there anything that that you think we should have talked about? I'm I'm sure that you know
you gotta listen to some other episodes here. You know, subscribe to the podcast we talk a lot about all the fucking mistakes that we've made. And you know. So you can kind of learn from some of those, and some of the successes that we've had as well. So But is there anything that you think we're we've missed so far tonight?
I don't. I think if you're if you're if you're newer to running in general, or you're somebody that gets a little nervous about running out in front of a lot of people. That's another great thing about being in the trails is that you're you know you don't. It's more quiet, it's more peaceful, there's less distraction.
So if you're if it, it's just something to think about, too. If you're if you're looking to, you know, not have a New Year's resolution per se. But maybe you're looking to get more active. But you also, wanna, you know, have something that's like very peaceful and and and relaxing and and meditative. I think I think that being out in in the woods or on a trail or rail trail it just serves so many purposes beyond getting out getting in a workout. Just a nice. It's quiet, it's peaceful. It's.
Yeah.
Become one with nature.
A 100, a hundred percent, a hundred percent.
100 and 12.
100 and 12%. Yes, there you go, Fred, you have anything.
I would go right back to where I started. Don't think that there are any barriers to trail running, really, if you have running shoes. I don't advise, like, you know, going for like a 2 h. Run in Chuck Taylor's or something, but if you have running shoes right, you can get out there. You should have an idea of where you're going. Bring a phone with you. Tell a friend where you're going, and other than that, like there's there shouldn't be a barrier to you doing it, and
the community is very receptive to new people. So.
Like, if you.
Run into someone on a trail. That's a friend you haven't met yet. You go show up at like the trail mixer, spring fling or fall fling. There are like 200 people there that all run all over Connecticut trails. They're all friendly. You can ask them stuff, they'll say, Hey, come, run with me. They may be they all have bad ideas that they will convince you to do.
Yeah, yeah. You know, we are very good at convincing people.
Yeah. Go. See? Todd.
Do things.
Trail. The other thing is club, and as well check out.
All that stuff and if you, if you know where you're going and how to get back to your car, you can make the dumbest mistakes, and those make good stories as long as you don't like fall off and die right.
You gotta live to tell the story.
Right. and if you do fall off a cliff and die, or almost die, give us a call, and let us know, because we want those stories on our show. Just kidding, don't do, you know, don't take unnecessary risks. So.
Yes, only necessary risks.
Yes, yes, all right, guys. Well, this is this has been great. So again, like I think, just to kind of summarize what we talked about, you know. Get out there, get it done lots of great trail running in the northeast. Don't be an asshole on the trails, you know, like, Get, you know, learn how to, you know, learn how to get along like we talked about.
Run with like smear honey all over you, so you can get the bees after you.
That's right.
Wear dark clothes, you may be stressed. Have some like meat around you for animals.
Right? You're training and.
Right.
Fitness is going to be very much like if you're a roadrunner, except that you're going to just have a different stride. And you're going to kind of work on, you know, like, like Fred talked about like what did you call it? Socio perception, or something like what was the word.
Yeah, that was a big.
Proprioception. That's that's your your brain's ability to to intuit the trail in front of you.
Right on what he said.
Yeah.
No, that's yeah. So yeah, get your brain wrapped around that whole thing. And then it's okay to poop in the woods and walk up the hills.
And when. if you're if you're a roadrunner, trail runners don't hate road runners, it's not a battle, it's not, you know it. It's it's great running is fun. So try try trail, dip your toe in it. It's good. Yeah.
That's good, all right. Very good. Well, thank you very much. To everybody for, you know. Or 1st of all, thank you 2 guys for your help tonight. Hopefully, this is useful, if you like. They help me tonight. Pass this on to your road, running, friend, okay and If you are that road running, friend, then reach out to us because we'd love to hear about your journey and if we said something tonight that you don't agree with. Like.
Fun.
Yeah, or that we that we got wrong.
You know.
Or do you have a different perspective? Your own goddamn? Podcast? I'm sorry. No, just give us a call and.
Heck!
Yeah, give us some feedback love to know that, you know.
Yeah, I I would. I I think I agree. So I think a lot of the things it's it's always like, you're based on your own experience, and something that you know on my experience is something that I might really have. This is great. Someone else might be like, oh, that's horrible, and with some, with a few exceptions, there's not necessarily a right or wrong, you know, except for the running with, you know, raw meat wrapped around your neck and putting yourself in honey.
Right.
And running by yourself in the woods.
Okay.
It, could we could. You're right, it could. So even that even that's a good good advice.
Yes, so all right. And yeah. And if we forgot anything, let us know what we forgot there. So all right. Well, thank you. Everyone for listening. And of course, if you've made it this far seek professional help, and we will see you all in a mile.
Mile and a half.
All right.
Oh, oh! That was my my puppet shell.
That was awesome.
See you there.
I did see that that was pretty damn.
It really made my arm my arm. I got 3. I got 3 shots today, my arms like a little piece of spaghetti.
Wow!
Yeah, that's a big workout. Move my arms around.
I know that's like that's like my workout these days. It's like, forget it.
Well, that was very good, I think.
I was.
it's it's it's also good when to hear, just to remind yourself. Sometimes you think I've done this so many times. You you forget some of the common, you know, or basic things that you're like. I don't follow this. No, I really, I really do.
What do you guys think would? So would you would be able to record a show. You think, while I'm out sometime.
Yeah.
Okay.
I mean, that's fine to me. So you said
Now, you could either get a.
15th to the 23.rd
Yeah.
What did I just do? 14th to the 23.rd
If you.
So for me, I just wouldn't be able to do the 21.st That's the only day that I wouldn't which is a Tuesday. So that's the only reason why I'm saying that is because it's a Tuesday. my boys have a track meet.
Oh, I'd like to get I I started blah blah blah! I think it might. It might be fun fun to have Peter oviat on. If at some point, if you think that would make sense or no.
I did think. No, I did think about that. I I was like, I I yeah, when you, when you.
When, when, what.
Stop recording when you stop recording.
Just oh, okay, let me go.