Hello, and welcome to the show. This is the Cult of Conspiracy, and my name's Jonathan, I'm Jacob and today we have a very special guest, somebody who I've been looking forward to for a very long time. Welcome to the show, Karen Wilkinson.
Thank you guys, Thanks so much for having me Jonathan and Jacob. I'm so grateful to be here with you guys today. We've already had a great conversation, looking forward to the rest of it.
Absolutely, yes, yes, And so you are kind of just becoming a very well known especially within the conspiracy crowd, because you know, as far as conspiracies go, there's a lot of connectedness. It connects two conspiracies, whether it be UFO or religion or government or I mean really it's it's kind of a big old catch all net. And so you talking about aliens and how they could be
connected to demons, that's right up our alley, baby. So if you would, I mean, maybe tell a little bit about your books.
I know you did. You wrote two books, right.
Just one, just one right now, working on the.
Second, working on the second. Maybe that's why I got it confused. Maybe it was like a little telekinetic thing that I was picking up on.
Who knows, but.
If you would, can you can you tell us a little bit about yourself and about you know, your experiences whatever led you to write this book.
Sure. Yeah. The name of the book is Stolen Seed, Evil Harvest, and it is published through Ellie Marzuoli's publishing company, Spiral of Life. Right now, it's available exclusively at Elliemarzuli dot net, So you can't go looking forward on Amazon
right now. It's just through his publishing company. And the inspiration to write the book really came from I had a near death experience, which I write about in the book and ended up doing a lot of PTSD therapy after that, which allowed me to deal with this lifetime of memories and all of this that had happened to me. I never had any hypnosis or regression or anything like that. These are just memories that I've always had. So this is just something that's happened to me throughout my lifetime.
I have a lifetime of abduction experiences by non human what people call alien entities, and once I was able to start dealing with them, I really felt led to reach out to La Marzuli. Not had really didn't know much about him at the time, and we were put
in contact that we did an interview. It became the centerpoint for his fourth movie in his UFOs series on the abduction phenomenon, and once that was completed, people started wanting to talk about it, and I realized that they're having someone to talk about these things, who you had
this in common with was really important to people. And it was important to me because I suddenly had people that I could share with and it was so amazing and helpful to me, and I was just it was such a blessing to have, you know, finally to have conversations so absolute. Yeah, it just you.
Know, I people who go a lot of traumatic things to find networks and people who have gone through similar things they could find support, they could find because I mean, that's a very ostracizing feeling, and it's terrifying to feel like you're the only one doing this because you're halfway thinking if you're crazy or not right, how can you go a bit like yeah, by the way, I've been
abducted by aliens multiple times my entire life. You know that people are going to write you off as a psycho immediately, But if you find people who are who aren't like internet clout chasers, who like genuinely have real trauma and real deep seated issues based off of these experiences. It's kind of like, and per my faith Christian, it's like sharing your testimony with somebody who is suffering or
dealing with similar stuff. There's power in that, and there's empowerment in that as well, especially for something in this regard.
Oh absolutely, yeah, you said that so well, that is true. And I call it my testimony because that's what it is. Because it's been a lifetime of something that I was so difficult and so ugly, but then really allowed me to do something good with it. And yeah, it wasn't out there. You know, I had nothing to gain by sharing my story, you know, nothing to gain by talking
about what happened to me. I spent my whole life being told by them that I cannot talk about this, and then being ostracized by the public perception, so I never spoke about it. You know, the powers that be, the governments and the agencies and all the other people who are in charge of what we think and what's put out to us have created this environment where, like you said, you're considered crazy or delusional or what have you. But I'm like, but these things happened to me my
whole life. These are real things. You know. This isn't just something made up. I mean a physical proof, and so it just, yeah, it became something. There's so much more to it that I felt like if I could write it down and share it, maybe I could help get in touch with more people. And so I wrote it, and Ela loved it and agreed to publish it and took a chance on me. You know, I was writing for his newsletter at the time, so getting to know him better, and so I do write for his newsletter
monthly now, which is amazing. But that just opened doors for me to just be able to reach out to more people and reach more people and talk to more people, because I want to create an environment where it's okay to talk about these things. And you know, as this started happening, then you get we had all this government stuff start coming up over the last six years, between the twenty seventeen New York Times article and all these
other admissions and whistleblowers and things coming out. So the timing was really crazy because it just all kind of coalesced at the same time we were doing this project, And yeah, I just want to make it okay for people to have these conversations and not feel crazy, because this stuff affects people's lives in really incredible ways and it's devastating. Some people, you know, just never are able to get past it. And I was really blessed that I was able to have that PTSD therapy so that
I could learn how to function better with it. That was a huge part.
Yeah, that is amazing that you were able to come out on the other side of that, not exactly unscathed, but at least, you know, healthy enough in the mind to be able to talk about it and not have to worry about, you know, somebody chasing you down. I want to get to a couple of the minor details that you brought up here, because that really strikes your fancy. So, first of all, you have a near death experience, and I love that I finally get to speak somebody who
has had one. And it's funny because I actually just restarted watching this this Netflix show called The OA.
Have you ever seen that?
Yeah?
Oh my god, so good. But anyway, it's all about near death experiences and stuff like that.
And uh.
Also, I'm I'm a past life aggressionist, so I do I do hypnotherapy to go past lives and and and stuff like that. Doesn't necessarily have to be past lives, but it's hypnotherapy, right, And I would love to hear a little bit more about maybe what did you experience as a result of your NDE. Did you see something on the other side, like what was after the did it did it all go dark? Is there another world? I mean, what was your experience with that?
Right? Did you have a question too, Jacob Before I start talking about.
That, it was. It was kind of the two parter. But I also really want you to answer Johnson's question too. That's I was like, come on, I really want to hear this one. But I was going to ask if you and you talk about it in your book. I was gonna say, if you could kind of go into a little bit of detail about what led to your near death experience. If you can't, I understand a lot of traumatic things.
No, it's good because I think it is important in it and it kind of ties into everything else because of a strange way that it happened. I was going in for a surgery another back surgery. I've had eight of those in the last eight years, probably major ones. All kinds of crazy stuff goes on with my body. They just can't explain. And you know, I could explain it, but they wouldn't believe me, probably right. But anyway, So this was the third, I think, surgery with this particular surgeon.
They took me into the operating room and I had IV ports in but I wasn't hooked up to any machines or anything yet, and he wasn't quite ready, which is unusual to go in to the operating room before the doctor is ready, but he wasn't in the room yet. It was just they took me in and there were two nurses in the room and an anesthesiologist or nurse anesthesist. I don't know what it was, what her title was, but it was a woman with short, dark hair and a white lab coat. Came in and leaned over me.
She had a pocket full of syringes and took one out, and I assumed it was a sedative. She pushed it in my IV port and turned and walked away. Didn't ask if I was okay, how that felt, nothing, just turned and walked away really quickly.
That's scary.
Yeah, And it was the last time I ever saw this woman too.
Her name was I have now entered the realm of absolutely what the hell.
Just happened exactly, and instantly my body started to feel like cement. I couldn't breathe, I couldn't move, I couldn't gesture for help. And for me, having had this lifetime of abduction experiences, it was terrifying because I was immobilized so many times before, but this time I couldn't breathe, I couldn't do anything, and I lay there dying. I just I remember thinking God helped me, and I heard an audible voice in my head that said, it's okay, you can let go now. And it didn't sound like
my voice. You know sometimes when you're kind of having a conversation with God, it kind of sounds like you're own, you know. There's really no description for that voice. This voice had an audible sound, and it was just the most pure voice. It was like crystal clear water. It was so hard to describe. And instantly I was out of my body, but I was very close to my body and I just instinctively, instinctively knew to stay close and I could see everything happening in the room and
in the adjoining rooms too. I could see without eyes. Here, without ears, I could see what was going on through the walls. I didn't nothing obstructed my vision. I could see the walls, but I also could see through them, which I know it doesn't make sense, but I'm was not in a physical body.
Let's go.
One of the things that struck me so interesting was that I was still me. I still had my personality, and I don't know why, but I was just like, I'm still me. God, I'm still me. I'm just like. And all I felt was peace and love, the most unbelievable incredible peace and love, no fear. I wasn't worried about anyone or anything. I just felt this all encompassing, like being wrapped in a warm blanket. Just peace, love, just beyond comprehension.
Random medical staff looking person. We don't even know this bitch had a name, be.
Honest, I don't even remember she had a name.
Tag on right inject's random syringe, one of twenty that she happens to have in her lab coat pocket. Doesn't say a word and just dips. You immediately feel your entire body start to slowly shut down, and then you have a literal outer out of body experience where you sounds like possibly might have met not necessarily the Creator, but at least went to the other side.
Yeah. I felt like it was the voice of my creator. I really did. It's like I knew that voice and immediately he said you can let go now, like he released me from this physical body. It was just it was just all understood. I had no questions, you know what I mean.
They didn't like to see God. You didn't like come face to face with their creator. But you did hear the voice.
But I heard the voice and I knew I was with in his presence that because the love and the peace was just undeniable. I mean it was I had no I just knew, you know. I didn't have to be told. I just knew, you know. Everything was just given to me. It was like an instant download in that second. And there was no time passing. Although I knew time was passing, I didn't feel any time passed. I could hear what everyone was saying and see what
they were doing. And then you know, the nurses were putting around with tables and things like that, and one of them, looks over my way and she's like and I could see the look on her face, and she looks at the other nurse and she's like hey, and she comes up. Is she had an allergic reaction to something? And she comes running over and looks at me, and the other one's like, oh my god, she's not breathing
and starts to panic. So the nurse that's not panicking runs in the other room, grabs the doctor says, hey, something's wrong, she's not breathing. He comes running in yelling bagger bagger, and they put that bag thing and start you know, trying to get air, and nothing happens, and more people start coming in the room and alarms are you know, they're pushing buttons and things, and now I'm not hooked up to anything, so no one knew, you know,
what my bibles were anything. They start hooking me up to things and wires going everywhere and pieces everywhere, and I'm just, you know, watching all this happen, listening to him, watching what they're doing.
And so that was my next question. You were present, quote unquote ish you heard these things happen. You heard the doctor come in and say, bag her, bag her and like, so you were at least partially still present in this realm.
I was, yeah. I mean I was out of the body, but I was, Yeah. I could see what was happening in the other rooms, you know what I mean, and hear what was happening in the other rooms, but I
was not, you know, inn been. And afterwards, when I recounted those things to the doctor and my daughter in law was with me when I was doing that, He's like, there's no way you could have known that, you know, because there's no direct connection for those two rooms for me to have known what happened between the rooms.
And things like that, Then how do I know it?
Right?
Like it's like, I, yeah, how.
Do I know? That? He was blown away? And after Yeah, I think that that changed him and changed something about him. I you know, I have some theories on that that I won't get into here because I don't know. I just think he might have been involved in some of that, and afterwards, I think his understanding of the of the supernatural and God and hereafter probably changed quite a bit. And I need to say he's no longer my doctor.
But that's fair. So all right, this was your first This was a near death experience. But you say you had abduction history prior to this was you said, what nine years ago? Eight years ago?
This was about eight years ago.
Yeah, so eight years ago you have your near death experience and you had your I don't want to say revelation, but basically you got whatever kind of confirmation was ever questioned. You now know that there is another side. It is the good place of all good and all love. At least that was the place that you were destined to go. All these things wonderful. However, I feel like I need to hear a little bit more about your the backstory that led up to you so calmly and nonchalantly being like, well,
I guess today is my day. All these ducts, like, I'm sorry, those are about those abductions.
Right right. Let me cap that off to say that they finally they intubated me, and all of a sudden, when they're intubating me, I can taste the metal in my mouth and I'm back in my body.
Okay, Now here's my next question. Because you said metallic taste, did they do any kind of toxicology, blood work, anything to see what was injected into you? What you were having reaction because of nothing.
Oh no, their biggest, their number one thing was to cover this up for sure, that they did everything in their power to cover up. They had me so drugged up it wasn't funny, and kept me on combinations of drugs that I probably should have sued him for. Afterwards, we tried to get lawyers because I didn't want to you know, I wasn't looking to get anything from anyone
to ruin anyone's life. I wanted someone to pay for my therapy because it was going to take me a lot of therapy to get through the PTSD part, because it triggered a lifetime of similar issues. Yeah, and every lawyer that was considering taking our case would then shortly thereafter you go, nope, won't touch it.
So happened it was fentanyl that they got that caused a crazy reaction, like the same thing. Hospital covered it up all this because if there's anything showing fentanyl to be a negative thing in the medical field, Oh, we can't talk about that. Oh no, no, no, no, we we got to wash our hands of any of that. So who knows what concoction was in that vial that she injected into your IV line? So I.
Oh, sorry, go ahead, I'm sorry.
Yeah, I really want to know, because you hear like we've done near death experience shows where we've only talked about people's experiences with their near death experience. It's documented on you know, certain websites nderf dot com or something along those lines, and they're all pretty different. I mean not you're never going to get two that are exactly the same. But I mean, hey, that's our lives, and there's no two lives that are exactly the same, so
I wouldn't expect it. But that being said, I am very curious if you were given an option to stay where you were or to go back into your body, or was it just automatically like I'm going back in because they brought me back to life, they got all that shit out of my system. Was it was the decision made for you or did you make a decision?
You know, I felt like the decision was made for me immediately, because from the second I was out of my body, I just I knew that I was supposed to stay really close to my body and not wonder anywhere. Okay, just stay right here, just stay close to your body. This is just for a little while. I just knew that so has never given that option. Do you want to you know, stay or go, which I've heard of the people talk about no, and and like I said,
as soon as they intimated me, everything went black. And I did have a small stroke from not small stroke, I had a stroke from it, which is why this side of my face doesn't move so much. You'll see me, you know. But it took me a long time to
learn to walk again, to talk again. You know, I'm now ambidexterous because I had you do everything with my left hand for so long, you know, crazy stuff, and you know, people, it's just I it was such a strange way that everything happened, and it but like I said, I'm grateful for it because A I know that God loves me. I know that we go on. I know that we go on as ourselves like this, who you
are is what continues on. I mean outside of the physical you know, body that we have, you keep going and it's as amazing and it just love and peace. So I am excited for that when that time comes, because I know that, you know, we have so much more than that to look forward to. But I just have a little, tiny glimpse into just the love and the beauty of what was there.
I love this way too. You got a glimpse because, as the Bible says, no I have seen, nor ear has heard what God's got going on for us when we get there. You saw a little snippet of what you call the most profound love and peace and all these things. That was just a taste.
Yeah, can you imagine. I mean, it makes it worth it. So I'm just like, Wow, I'm not afraid. I'm not afraid to die anymore. I'm not afraid of any of that. And I've had a lot of close calls since then too, So you know, whatever is going on, God's keeping me around for a reason, and I'm going to try to make the most of it and do the best I can with what He's blessing with.
So that's amazing my.
Choice now, And that's why I'm coming forward with all of this, because it's not something most people would ever choose to come forward with. I never thought I would talk about this with anyone, let alone in a public setting, in the public form. This was never never on my radar, you know. But when I feel like when God throws you into something that's what you do, you know, and and so I'm grateful that I get to do to do this.
But this question sound like this might sound like a ridiculous question, but only because I'm just so fascinated with NDEs. I just want to kind of go off a little checklist of whatever is just going on in my mind with this. After your NDE, did you pick up any like talents ever had before?
That's a good question. Well, I definitely can use my left hand definitely now.
It was kind of an actual superpower, let's be real.
So yeah, that happened. I know I was I was wishing that I would kind of come out being able to play like a concert pianist or something. But no, I didn't get that. But what I did get it was coming out of it in recovery. I've been in
recovery many times after surgery. That's usually a bunch of people in a room with one or two nurses barely paying attention to you, you know, your robes hanging out and you're like, can someone please come, you know over here waiting for your ice chips, that kind of thing. This time, I woke up and they were like six doctors and nurses standing around me. Every time they tried
to bring me out of anesthesia. I was screaming in pain so loud that and just in so much pain that they kept having to put me back under so I wouldn't stroke out or have a heart attack. They did that for about four hours, and I remember so finally, after about four hours of this, I remember praying, going, God, why did you send me back into this body? I
can't do this? Help me. And I look up and there's these two young, orderly males at the foot of my bed, and I look at them and they I'm like, oh my gosh, you look like you could be my kids, you know, because I had a lot of kids and a lot of kids that call me mom. And they were just young, handsome. They looked similar to one another in scrubs, and they just comforted me, and all of a sudden, I wasn't worried about the pain. They helped me just you know, within thirty minutes, I'm on my
way back up to the room. They go all the way up to the room with me, and I'm just chatting to them, you know, and they're not really talking to me, but I'm talking to them a lot and We get to the room and my husband and my daughter in law, who are always there for me after surgery, were right there waiting and we're in the kind of ICU area and I grabbed their hands and I was like, you have to meet the boys. They remind me of
our kids so much. Oh my gosh. And they're like, okay, yeah, you know, we're and I'm like, they're right here, and they're like where, And I'm like I looked at the nurse and the other orderly who was on either side of me, and I said, oh, what happened to the boys that I was talking to? And she's like, honey, what boys. I'm like, the ones that are with us. They were in the elevator, they were down the hall and she's like, honey, I don't know who you're talking about.
I'm like, they were right here with us. I was talking to him the whole way up. She's like, oh, we wondered too, you were talking to honey. It's just us and.
Your third eye, your pineal glam was a little more open than it usually is.
These you were things.
That were absolutely there that they comforted me.
They talked me through it. I you know, I believe these were angels. They came and helped me, they comforted me. I went from them spending four hours trying to get me out of anesthesia to just like that, everything was better. I was still in pain, but it it was okay. All of a sudden, and I searched that hospital high and low with my little walker in my wheelchair, trying
to find these guys nobody was talking about. No one else had seen them, and I realized, well, they were wearing scrubs, but I remember, they didn't have any badges or anything on, you know, the millionyards or anything. And they they were just there to help me. And as soon as I had everything I needed, they were gone. You know, they didn't interfere with me, they didn't hurt me in any way, they didn't nothing. They just helped me and they were kind and comforting. And then they
were gone when they weren't no longer needed. And I was like, wow, so there are good angelic beings out there, wonderful, benevolent. And I had had a lifetime of these horrible encounters with non human entities. Finally yours two that are just wonderful and lovely. So I was so grateful for that so no, I didn't get any special powers, Jonathan, but I did get a visit from two amazing entities whatever, whoever they were.
Oh my god, that is so cool. I knew I kind of felt like you were going there whenever you first started saying it, and then you're like, oh, well, nobody knew who they were, and uh, that is so crazy. I love to hear that. See you were, You said that they were there to like comfort you. Right, Did they put hands on you? Was there any kind of touch? Did you feel that at all?
Yeah, they had their hands on my half of my legs on either side, one on either side. That's the only contact I had. And I was under the sheet the blanket, you know those awful hospital cotton blankets the US. So it wasn't direct contact. But yeah, they had their hands on my halfs.
Oh, that's interesting too. Biblically speaking, the armor that God tells us to wear, it would be the shoes of peace and these two entities who again, he says that he will send you a comforter If I'm not mistaken. This all checks out to me. Not gonna lie, and I'm not gonna lie. Also, when you said you had these two gentlemen that were standing at the foot of your bed when you woke up. I have my former father in law. Long story short, was on his deathbed.
They had like one more treatment they were gonna try, and if this didn't take it was it the whole nine horrible, horrible situation. When he came out and he woke up, he says he had two gentlemen in suits and ties around him that weren't actually there, but he saw them, and he is saying that these entities were not of the good type, and they were tormenting him for a couple of days until the third third eye
pineal gland started to calcify back over naturally. But uh yeah, he says that what he saw in recovery was horrible. So many different experiences.
Yeah, that's amazing. No, I you know, I had no reason to There's nothing of benefit for me to make those guys up, you know what I mean, there's there just isn't. There's no reason for me to make something like that up. You know, It's it's just what happened, you know. And yeah, I mean if they were actual humans, no one could ever find them in the hospital. So I don't know, I I really do.
Let's hear a little bit about you know, what happens as maybe maybe the before story that Jacob was kind of asking about or alluding to their as far as demonic presences or aliens or maybe you know, aliens cloaking themselves as demons or vice versa.
Let's say this, let's say other than human entity abductions. And before we even hear the story, let's leave it. You and I Johnathan are going to hear this from very neutral playing fields. Right, We're not saying these are
good aliens, bad aliens, angels, demons. Nothing. She said and that she was abducted by non human creatures, and let's hear the experiences and we will decide what we think as far as all of these things are concerned with, especially with all the things we've heard, stories, we've heard, guess we've had on She is saying that she believes that these were demonic entities, and again she has experience
with these things. I am I got to know what happened to where I was like, no, that is absolutely what this is, you know what I mean?
Also as a as a little pre or sort of this and this is you know, kind of just something that I feel like is necessary to ask, have you been a Christian your entire life?
No?
But you became a Christian as a result of this.
Well, I wouldn't say as a result of this. No. I had a experience with my roommates when we were about eighteen or nineteen years old, and one of them had a background with family members who are Christian, and we were listening to a particular song by Duran Duran and looking into the lyrics and she's like, I know what that means. She started explaining to us. Before you know, we've got a Bible out, we're all giving our lives God,
we're all born again. You know, we start going down and going to church and doing all you know, getting.
Led to you finding Jesus. Yeah, Lord uses so many tools, am I right?
I know? Right? It was crazy? Was that song? Election Day? I think, yeah, She's like, that's about well not going in the rapture, and we're like, what's the rapture? You know, we had no idea I went. I grew up in like a presratory in church. It was just about getting dressed up, going being quiet, going home. You know. We learned some stories about Noah and some giraffes and things
like that, but not much else. So then I fell away from that, you know, because I didn't really have a good foundation and I didn't have a good support system around me to continue that, and I fell away
from it. And so I still I've always known God was there since I was a little, tiny kid, because I went to church and I knew who God was and Jesus was and all that, and I and I even you know, there were times when I was little where there would be these commercials on TV and God would just put that in my head, in my heart, and I know that that protected me. Sometimes. It's so weird now to think back on how even when I
wasn't aware, God was still helping me. But so and I always, you know, I prayed, and I kind of had these different times in my life where I get back into my beliefs a little bit and then just fall away. I went down a very new age path and different tried out different religions, Buddhism, all kinds of different things, you know, just searching, and yeah, and God
never left me. He just stayed there, and he just kept knocking and he kept waiting for me to see and to find my way like a prodigal son, and you know, and all the things that I did that I am not proud of, But as far down as I fell, he never walked away, and that's you know. So what led me back was just his love for me always being there. And when I looked up and he was still there, I came back in and he invited me back in with open arms. And that was
again after my near death experience. So you know, it's funny because even then he didn't leave me or forsake me, because I had already given my life and my heart to him. Even though I fell away, he's still there.
So that's how it works. You can't get unadopted from a family. That's literally not how it works, you know, right.
Yeah, And I didn't think I was worthy to ever be back in his presence and I'm still not a yeah, and exactly, and now I realize I'll never be worthy. That's the whole point, yep. And that's the coolness of it is that you know, I'm not out there trying to do bad things. I'm trying my best to do my best, but I know I'll never be good enough. And that's okay. But I'm just going to do what I can because I just want to please him, because bless me so much and I am so grateful for that.
And people are like, how can you be so happy when you've had such a horrific life. I'm like, because what I have now is so much greater than the pain that I've had in my past and all suffered, is so much greater than what I suffered. It just he can heal anything, and healed my heart. He can heal anyone's heart. So sorry, that makes me a little bit.
No, no, no, no, no, Look, I'm getting emotional here to hear you say these things because I'm telling you this is this is words from my heart that you are saying right now. I feel like I've said these words on this program multiple times. I could not agree more. And like, that's the point. You're supposed to do the best you can. Is it ever going to be good enough? No, You're human. You were born into sin and imperfect and that's okay. God made you that way. It's a part
of the plan. I promise. She ain't mad at you, He doesn't hate you. He just wants you to come home. That's it, and it's hard for people to grasp that and.
Accept you where you are and for who you are, period and the story, and that's that's the amazing part of it. So I hope that answers your question, Jonathan. I know I went down a really long road there, but but yeah, I was not always a Christian. But to get back to the abduction stuff, they started from as early as I can remember. If you want me to kind of talk about that a little.
Bit again, yeah, I was gonna say that happened around like teenage years that started. First memory was in a spaceship, like, what were we talking about here?
Yeah, these these abductions happened from my very earliest memories when I was a little kid. I remember I was only about maybe three or four years old, maybe two. One of my nieces or nephews graduated from high school. Not nieces, uncles, sorry answer uncles. I can't remember my dad's niece nephew. And they took us to the high school and I was so little, and they tried to hand me off to one of my other aunts and uncles that was sitting behind them, and I screamed, bloody murder.
I will never it is ingrained in my head because I looked at their faces and they looked so similar to these Nordic entities that I was so used to already seeing all the time. I was terrified of that side of the family. Just you know, I'm a little kid, so I can't make those distinctions. But and they they were very human. Don't get me wrong, My family members
were not aliens. They were human, but they had their eyes were big and blue, and they're very fair and very tall and very thin, and just they were so similar that I couldn't go to it. And they couldn't understand why I wouldn't ever go to anyone on that side of the family. And you know, at that young age, you can't communicate that. And when I start having concrete memories around five or six years old, as most children do, that's when your memories kind of start to are solidified, right.
I remember it would happen at night. They would come and it didn't matter where I was. Quite often at my grandparents' farm house it would happen, or at our home didn't matter, and it would just be the middle of the night. If I was sharing a room with a sibling, that sibling would just be in a state of knocked out. Can't wake them up, can't rouse them sleep. Just like you know, if I screamed or hit, no one in the house would hear me, even if I
did try to to do something. A lot of times there the crickets and cicadas outside would just get quiet. Sometimes the cows make cows on the farm. They would get really quiet. Sometimes they would get really loud, which is weird. Sometimes there be a light that would come in the window or the far window from the bedroom that I could see from down the hall, and there would I could feel it. I could feel the change
in the room. To this day, if they are around, I get that same feeling and it is like another sense and I can't describe it except that it's a feeling and it's very clear. It's always that same feeling when they're around. They know when they're around. I know when they're out Yeah, there's definitely I know when they're out there, I know when they're close by. I know that sounds crazy, but I always feel them. I always
know when they're around. It's like a cold breeze, but doesn't feel like that, you know, but it is something that is tangible that I can tell that they're there, and there would be at least two of the what people call typical gray alien in the bedroom. They were, you know, the kind of three foot round, three feet tall, with the big oversized bulbous heads, the big black screen eyes that didn't move. They were just stationary, thin, really thin,
almost brittle bodies. Some of them smelled really bad. Some of them had a putrid smell like a cross between dead animal sulfur urine feces kind of, you know, just some didn't smell that bad at all, and some smelled really bad. I don't you know, I don't know why. I think some of them might have been older skin suits, whatever. But from that point I would be put in a state of waking paralysis. People talk about sleep. For me,
this was a wide awake. And then as soon as I noticed them, I would get immediately put into a state of paralysis. Usually at that point I had as soon as I'd see them, I would like wet the bed or something like that, because I was terrified in them, and they would love tate me off the bed and take me up through a ceiling or out through a
closed window. And I would get right up to a ceiling and see crazy little details like paint marks or you know, wallpaper curling and being really brown because my Grandma's house had wallpaper on the ceiling, or the bugs that were in the light, or every little detail on this etched light that was on the ceiling of one of the rooms, or you know, getting right up to the window that you see like every little square on the screen and some of them aren't bent and some
are broken, but they're not really square after all, you know, just or smudges, and when just things that you know, I remember, just why is this so close up? And then seeing things get further away, like picks on the walls and in the rooms and the doorways, and everything's getting further and further away. As I would approach the window or the ceiling, I it was like this base almost like a low hum, like a really low low vibration.
It was like holding onto a big base speaker almost at a concert, like a really loud concert, only without the noise. And I felt like my body was just going into a bazillion little pieces, and I would just go through a window or through a ceiling, and at that point, I don't know if it was because of how it was done. But I feel like that that's the point where I'd always blackout, would be put to
sleep whatever. Not always, but usually because I do have memories of seeing the outside and seeing things good bye, and seeing things, seeing things get smaller and further away.
Now, is this your body or is this your consciousness that's.
Happening to my physical body, my physical person being being.
Yeah, so you're saying that they were using I don't want to say sound wave energy because we don't know what this energy would have been, but something akin to it to make you be able to go through hearts, surfaces, walls, ceilings, windows, all of this. Basically, they would turn on this device to in some way shape or form, make the wall soft or you soft or both to be able to pass through each other, and then turn it off when
you got on the other side. But that was around the time when you would black out.
Yeah, exactly. And you know, they can manipulate space, time, energy, and matter of ways that we don't understand. They're so advanced of us, they advice been so far ahead of us, and some of the things that they utilized when I was little makes sense now, but I couldn't have explained then because it was like virtual reality, you know, when you put on br goggles and everything scenes and feels so real, but it's not really there. I was experiencing that from a really young age. Or these walls in
these rooms that were just means like video screens. But you know, all we had was a little tiny TV with four six ten thirteen in the U channel, and I don't know what the you did, but sometimes something would come to the static, you know, you know, I mean, that's how old I am, but so, you know, it's just so none of these things made sense, you know, And I didn't have vocabulary to talk about them either, because there weren't shows on TV or podcasts or books
or magazines or things that I had access to anyway that talked about these things. So I didn't have the vocabulary for gray alien or spaceship or any of that other stuff. You know. All I knew was that, you know, they were the ones that came to get me and one of my sisters. I remember, I would always try to hide at night. I thought if I could find like a big enough suitcase, get in it, zip it up under the bed, they wouldn't be able to find me.
I remember, her saying, it doesn't matter where you go. They can see us through thee through the roofs, you know, they can see through the house. This is like a five and an eight year old having a conversation like that. You talk about them the ones who come to get is there are the ones that can get I won't speak for that other person, so, but you know, having these conversations when we're that little, I mean, but we
didn't have any vocabulary to put behind it. So if you tried to tell somebody, I mean, I remember being about six years old, six years seven, I think it was about six at the school and they had to call and have my mom come and get me because I was in a cuddled up, huddled up in a ball in the corner of a bathroom stall, just holding onto my knees and rocking and I wouldn't get up, and I wouldn't talk and I wouldn't move, and they had to have her come get me because I had
finally had my just I broke down. You know, I was only like six years old, but I couldn't take it anymore. And because at that point I had been warned and I can back up to talk about that they was trying to talk about it. You know, they come get me, they do this, you know, and I was telling kids to school, you know. Yeah, they did this needle in my neck or my chest, you know, just things like that. And the one night they took me and walked me into the backyard of my house
and it did a screen memory thing. It's called like a screen memory when you think you're seeing something but you're not. It's really like VR is for virtual reality is for us today.
You mean scrying.
I'm sorry, you mean scrying screen memory?
Okay, I might be thinking of someone else.
What's crying. I don't know.
When you when you write something down, you're getting from the other side. I might be making things.
They had these things called that are referred to as screen memories when people have them, and it's you know, it's kind of an old term, but it's like a virtual reality thing being shown to you, but you're you're there, You're you're there, and they're it feels like everything else is there too. And they showed my family being walked out into the backyard. There was a clothesline going down the middle of the yard at my grandma's house, and the family was on the other side of the clothes line.
And then they're like, you can't talk to people about this. You have to stop talking. You have to be good. You have to be good. And they sprayed something on their backs, of their necks and then beheaded them all in front of me. And I was just a little kid, you know, I'm like six years old, and I just that's what led to me. You know, then when you go back to school, and I just I couldn't do it anymore. You know. I realized at that point I didn't have anyone who was going to save me. I
didn't have any options. I couldn't stop them without hurting my family. And I kind of made that choice at that point because of a little kid. You know, kids don't we don't have those tools. That's when I made the choice to just put that over here and my life over here and never bring them back together and for as much as possible, and I just at that point just did a lot of dissociation from it. Sure, and you know, it became something I never spoke about after.
That, but it was something that was still regularly happening though, correct.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it happened constantly all the time. I mean, I couldn't say with how what with what frequency, because I don't remember every time I was taken. Sometimes i'd be taken and the memory would be just of them showing up, and then I have no other memory of what happened the rest of that time. Sometimes I would wake up and not really remember the actual abduction part,
but I would be at the elevators. So there were these banks of elevators, and most often it would be we would go into these elevators and they just went down and down and down, and then I would get on what I called the sideways elevators. Because I was little, I never had any frame of reference for vehicles that were silent, So these elevators went side to side or
up at an angle or down an angle. I just thought of them as elevators in my head, but they were more likely like a high speed transit system of some sort. But back then cars made noise, Trains made noise. You know, everything we traveled in was loud back then. So then that would just take me to wherever we were going that particular time. Whatever they were going to do just you know, examinations or I don't know what they were doing because they didn't tell me what they
were doing. It wasn't pleasant, it was invasive. You know, I have a burn on my back that mark. It felt like a burn. I can't say it's a burn, but it hurt like a burn. It's in the shape of like a triangle. I put a picture of it in the book that you know, I came back with once with you know, i'd come back with rashes or
burns or different things than marks. You know, when my mom picked me up from the school that time, she took me to the doctor because I had marks on me, and I did say they just you know, it's from the ones that get me, the ones that are touching me, that are bothering me, and because I know how to describe what they were doing either, right, I mean, I couldn't say, oh, it's from the ali introductions and the grades that show it. Yeah, it's that's not even anywhere
close to something I could have vocalized. And he says, well, something has clearly happened to her. Maybe somebody's you know, bugging her, bothered her at school, or done something to her, but yeah, she's been definitely been abused in some way. However, he says she's young, she'll forget and wow, that was the end of that. Now, this is in the sixties and seventies, so you know there was.
No victims' advocates.
Yeah. Yeah, it was usually if an adult says something, you believe the adult. If a child, you know, we were meant to be seen and not heard.
So yeah, you weren't.
You weren't like abused like in any kind of sexual way.
Was it?
Oh, by them by the aliens? Yes? But later not as No, I don't have any memories of being little, but yes.
I don't need to jump ahead that And I'm sorry.
No, no, that's all right, that's all right. I mean there's a progression to it, you know. I mean I was as a child, and I wasn't the only human there. I was the only child there, and you know, having just you know, I have a lot of opinions about these things because I've been around them my whole life, and I've had this happen in my whole life, and it's gone through different iterations. I had a hand I
call him a handler. Sometimes I would call him Toby when I was little, but he didn't have a name. We had it like an imprint knowing, I knew who he was. He was, I always knew where to go when I was taken. Sometimes when I was taken, there's these underground facilities are where I was taken, and they're huge. They're massive. They're bigger than football stadiums and airports and everything you can think of put together. It's just I
have no idea how big they are. All I can say is a just it's an unbelievably massive amount of stuff going on under our feet. There was one area quite often I would be taken, and it's a huge area and there's lots of people showing up there that have been taken. Everyone's in kind of like a dumbfounded state, like this brain fog kind of thing where no one's no one's even everyone's glassy eyed, and everyone's the you know,
and you just kind of notice everyone. I mean, it's just no one talks to anyone, no one's everyone's just out of it. And I would always know. I would just feel where he was and nowhere to go. And this handler was a man. He appeared as a man. He was very tall, very big build, very square face, and looked military, you know, like looked like my friend Chad's gi Jo doll, you know, kind of growing up.
Maybe he appeared that way because that's, you know, something that I have my Barbie dolls name Chad has g I Joe dolls and we play with those. So maybe that's where they came from. I don't know, but he was very He was always there with me. He was kind of it was like a little kid being groomed. He was always there too. I always felt safe knowing he was there because he's going to show you where I was to go. He's going to be there with me.
There were other humans all over the place, there were other non humans all over the place, so I knew, and I was with him that these other entities weren't going to bother me or hurt me because he was going to protect me.
Right.
It's like that abusive situation where you know they give you, they do something nice to kind of keep you on the hook, even though the whole thing is really disgusting. It's kind of like that, and you know when you're taken from a young age. And I've spoken with so many people now who whose stories are just the same as mine. You know, I think different is our names and where we grew up and who we were with when we were taken or where we were taken from.
People have identical stories to you.
Wow, I mean as identical as you can you know, not the same, but as yeah, identical circum circumstances. Yeah, yeah, circumstance parallel lots and lots and lots, and it's and they have no reason to do that, you know, They're like, I don't want to share my name, but I want you to know. I just read your book, and I just read my whole life and I hear that over
and over and over again. Wow, and especially from women, because we have a lot of similarities that happened later in my life I talk about in the book that are right about. But so this guy was always with me, and you know, so it was definitely a grooming thing where it was you taught how to act, you're taught where to go, you're taught not to talk about it, and you start to just get used to these entities being everywhere. You know that there were Nordic entities, there
were Reptilian entities. There were the grays and not the grays that come and pick people up like the ones I experienced that would show up in my room. But the other grays that I think those little grays were modeled after, and the grays, the other grays, and all of them are like people in that they don't all look the same. I think people think, oh, you're abducted and there's like these six identical cookie cutter entities, and you know, they're all Retellian or they're all Nordic, or
they're all gray, or they're all insectlin or whatever. That's not the case. They all look different, but you can tell that this is clearly this kind of like these are all kinds of grays, but they have you know, the ones that were there in those facilities that weren't these little worker be ones. Which I have a lot of opinions and thoughts on those based on my personal experience that I can share that later or another time, because that probably will get us off off topic.
Hey is your show today? Girlfriend?
You you.
Okay? And tell me yeah, just tell me to stop if you want me to stop, because sometimes I get on a roll and I forget we love it. Well, So back to the grays, then I'll talk about that a little bit. They all, you know, they're all different, like people are so they had the regular grays, not the ones that came to get me, But they had facial expressions, you know, their faces wrinkled and moved, and you could tell, you know, how they felt by the
way they looked at you. You their eyes moved like those grays that picked up they're just like their eyes were like a screen. They weren't like a real eye. But the ones that were there when I was taken, their eyes moved like they were almost full on black. You could see some difference and some movement in there, but it was like black on black kind of And but they were big, still really big, and their faces had expressions, and some of them looked more male than female.
Not that I think that they were particularly male or female, because I never they never really explained any of that to me, So I'm just based on what I saw. Some were taller and really big, and some were small and more frail and that kind of thing. So, you know, just like people, they were all different, and the same with the reptilians too. And my handler was who eventually later I knew that he wasn't human because he would sometimes look like he would phase in and out of
how he looked you know, i'd see it. It was like seeing a what's it called a hologram? Thank you? Yeah, it was almost like sometimes it would I could see something else behind him, like do you look different? I want to see what you really look like. I'm not afraid of you. I'm fine with it. I want to see what you really look like. And he was a reptilian and not like some gross looking lizard. And I like little lizards and frogs that I find in the backyard.
It's Texas, we have a lot of them. I've always been fine with that. No, he you know, he was beautiful in a way, and.
I reptilian looked beautiful.
Now he was. His skin was like opalescent, almost shimmery, like jeweled almost. It was just so pretty. It was colors like it's just so hard to describe. And from what I've.
Heard is that, you know, not all reptilians, I mean, in this this is something that's gonna get you know, convoluted. So I'm not going to spend too much time saying this, but you know a lot of people they have certain
reptilian experiences. And the stories that I hear is that you know, like these races or different entities are not necessarily all good or all bad, just like humans in that way that maybe there could be like good reptilians or or good I'm not going to go as far as to say good demons, but you know what I.
Mean, right, Yeah, different shades of gray, right, but ye are.
But I think the whole thing about aliens being this cookie cutter thing.
Right.
If I'm not mistaken me, if I'm wrong, people in the chat, whatever, do your thing. But I believe the first time that a quote unquote Martian was ever actually shown on screen was by with Marvin Martian and Bugs Bunny and if you remember what that was, the clone, the little bird alien creature that he kept popping out and he just kept pumping out more. I think that most people just kind of assumed that that's just how aliens go. They just have this one type, and that's
just what the story ran, right. We hear about these little blue and little green men, little gray men, and they just kind of get these features tattooed onto them by society, by media, by whatever. The first image that people saw growing up whatever, and boom, that is like what we have locked in to be an alien. And maybe there's antenna's maybe there's not, maybe there's three eyes, slight differences here and there, but we all have the general idea of what a quote unquote alien looks like.
Well, most people are not. Yeah, most people are never going to come in contact with an alien, though, like that's I would say, it's like the people who could ever come in contact with an alien or a demon or anything like that. I would say that we are of the minority for sure.
For now, for now, for now, Allegedly, according to Fox News and Seeing In and all these other big dogs, there could be an alien mothership off of one of Saturn's rings. Right now, we don't even know about it, and we could spend five full days of mainstream media talking about this thing, and then at the very end till everybody, by the way, there's no evidence of this. We just think it's possible. Who knows man.
Exactly. And that's what bothers me. I think the most about it is that there's so much there's so many assumptions out there, and there's so many people going, well, we think possibly, blah blah, you know, But then there are a lot of us who actually have had experience, who've been in the presence of these things for a lifetime. And there's nothing special about me. I'm just talking about it.
But there are a lot of us. I mean, more than you think, probably, you know, if I had hazard, A guess, I'd say about fifty percent of the populations had some kind of if not at least contact, then have seen something probably more honestly, but a huge percentage, especially based on what I'm finding out as the deeper I go into this and the more research that I'm doing, because you've also have to remember, I've spent a lifetime with not being able to look at anything about this,
not being able to research this stuff, not being able to watch any shows or read any books, not even being able to look out the windows at night because the terror and the fear of accidentally bringing them in is too deep, and accidentally looking at something and then having nightmares, you know, when I can keep them, when
I could keep them out of my head. I wanted to stay that way because it was so much a part of my life, and so I never you know, I never read any of the books or watch the shows or wanted to do any of that stuff because it was too triggering and it was too hard so I'm just now, you know, now that I've been doing this, of course, I'm doing more research and I'm learning more and I'm talking to more people and to be well enough educated as to what else is out there aside
from my own experience. But yeah, going back to what I was saying, it just there's all these supposed experts out there on all these new shows talking about all this stuff, and I'm like, where are you getting your information from?
That guy, David Grush, He's getting off his info from third party sources and then gets the DoD approval to talk about it. You know, yeah, that's totally real.
You know, I'm actually more on the side of believing some of the things that he said. I've actually gone through and I've sifted through some of the things he says. Dude, he doesn't believe that these are like off planet entities. He believes that they're their inner dimensional and that's way more believable to me.
Everything everything he said, I'm saying, he is not a source. He was told this information from other people, and he didn't say anything that was like earth shattering. By the way, there's aliens. Yeah, bro, we know they're right there. They've been here forever. Yeah, once again, homeboy, we've been knowing this. Thank you, Welcome to the party.
You know what I mean, Well, some people need to hear that, you know, no government, Like like if we say that there's one hundred percent aliens and we talk about electro nick calling it out in the sky, or we talk about my mushroom trips or your your experiences as a child and seeing demons like that's one thing. But if you hear like a government representative coming out and saying it like a lot of people tend to believe that a bit more. And that's really why I
like what Stephen Greer is doing so much. I don't know if you're familiar with him, Karen, I am, but he's been he's been kind of trying to at least like, uh, get the government to like open up more about it and not be so secretive. Could he be a controlled opposition? Anybody could at this point, I'm just going to be
real with you. I don't know, but from what I've read and the things that I've seen, he seems like, uh, I don't know, maybe he's he's trying to get it to be like more well known that these things are actually happening, and he's trying to get the government to like kind of loosen the noose on the whole conversation.
And I like that.
Yeah, Now I think you're right. I think people like Rush. He's he seems credible. To me. I don't see any reason not to believe him, because I'm not seeing any personal gain for him in doing what he's doing. I think he has just enough information to share credible facts that he himself has verified, whether he first hand was party two things, or whether he was getting it secondhand but was able to verify it. And and I think that that makes it more credible for the rest of us.
I think we need more of that, because they're just we haven't had anything that brought it into the mainstream light the way it has since the twenty seventeen York Times article and then up to today with David Grush bringing things to congressional committees and saying, yes, but I can't talk to you about that here, but I can talk to you about it in a skiff, or I can talk to you about it, you know, behind closed doors.
It lends a certain amount of possible credibility, but it then also lends a huge amount of space for people to make assumptions. And it's like, you know, when you say biological material non human, do you mean that you found cats or do you mean that you found non human alien entities? What are you talking about your.
Plant organic non human matter?
Exactly an in front of record.
I'm not saying that I hate Grush and I don't. I'm not over here just shitting on him, like no, no, no, no. I think that he is a spokesperson. Yeah, okay, I don't. You don't shit all over a news reporter for reporting what's on their teleprompter. Now, if they go off key and they give their own two cents about it, I might dislike them as a person after that. Fine, Fine,
I can form my own opinion. I'm not saying that Grush is, you know, in on it and he's he's totally evil, like no, no, no, Look, he's probably just a low level government agent that has a good speaking voice that people naturally would tend to trust and they're like, hey, buddy, you're gonna become really famous. Here's a lot of things that we want you to read off and go for it. And he's not saying that he's not lying, he is relaying the information that he was given to relay. I'm
not shitting on it. But again, like you said, it lead the fact that it's the government, and Jonathan, you're right. To certain people, the government saying dot dot dot makes them have a warm and fuzzy feeling inside. They're like, oh, oh, what the government came out. It's got to be real. Meanwhile, the other half of the country, and I actually do believe it's half and not conspiracy, not truth, or just the half with brainstems that are connected, right, they're like, oh, wait,
the government said it. Oh we need to do the opposite. Oh my god, that's a horrible idea. My point is there's either way you go. There's gonna be people trying to disprove you either side of the aisle you're on. So I see him as what he is and not what he's what people are making him out to be. You see what I'm saying, absolutely able to look.
At like anybody's accounts of aliens or UFOs or anything like that with a healthy amount of skepticism, and I think that's all you're doing.
Put it like this, I trust Bob Lazar's word over David Grush, oh for sure. Now some people will say, oh, well, Lazarre he blah blah blah blah, it's not real, you know what. That's firsthand, that's first hand account. Grushes is at best second or third. So I'm sorry, Bob, Lazar's got more of my attention, man.
And the thing with any of them is if they didn't, if the powers to be, the governments and the agencies and the three Letter Agencies or whoever is in of this topic right now didn't want them to speak, they wouldn't be speaking about it. They're only speaking because there is a very specific permission given for this information to be out there, because trust me, if they don't want
it out there, they will stop it. The only reason I'm allowed to be speaking about this right now is because so much of this is already out there, and there is so much you know, there's so much negativity towards someone who releases information like I have, who shares information like I have. You know, I'm not looked at as a you know, as Yeah, I'm not looked at as someone who's with respect that it should be given.
Let's put it that way. I'm trying to find a nice way to put it, you know what I mean. And all I'm doing is telling the truth, and all I'm doing is taking is being brave enough to share what so many other people you know want to share but are comfortable. And I understand that, I understand not wanting to share it. Trust me. We're trained from a
young age. I was try from a young age not to talk about this, but like I said, that near death experience changed everything for me, and I am not going to spend what time I have left on this earth not sharing the truth about what I know about these entities and about what happened to me, because I don't want any more. I don't want the truth to be obfuscated. If I can help it, you know, if I can be a part of the clarity, then then that's what I want to do. And I'm not afraid anymore.
I mean, I am very protective of my family, and if I didn't have my faith that I have right now, I definitely wouldn't be able to do this, that's for sure.
So your experience, and you say that you're kind of going in these like kind of underground tunnels, underground areas, cities, whatever you want to call them, I mean, is that does that kind of line up with like what hell might be.
Oh gosh, that's a good question. I don't know, because I don't really think I was in any kind of a hell and it you know, for me, I think the biblical hell is not being able to spend eternity with the love and the peace and the grace that I had, you know, when I had my experience with our Creator, with our Savior. So when you look at hell as an absence of love, an absence of peace,
I was never without love and peace. Even though I was tortured, even though I was tormented, even though it wasn't a pleasant thing that was happening to me, even though I was kidnapped and raped and had children ripped from my womb, It's still God was still with me, you know, and I still there was always still that shred of knowing that I wasn't damned or I wasn't going to have a lifetime of this. Whatever was happening was happening in the moment. Because we live in a
fallen world. We live in a simple world. We live in a world that I can't control what other people are doing, and I was being taken advantage of by entities who were fallen and who were not still with God, who were not still We're not doing good.
Right, I'm sorry there children ripped from your womb.
Yeah, so that was a little rough to say, Jesus. Sometimes it's easier to say it that way than to actually go down the road of that. We can go down that path. It's fine, No, I mean, this is this is really important because I have, since I've shared my information spoken then with so many women who who have gone through this exact same scenario that I have with the pregnancies in two thousand and twenty I think it was twenty two. I haven't in the book, and I can look it up, but I don't want to
go searching for it. A report was released by the government about acute and sub acute anomalist side effects basically of people who I've been exposed to alien entities, non human entities for lack of a better word. They put a really long, complicated title on it. It's a huge report and no one's going to take the time to go through it. But Tecker Carl said did and he
needed a report. Says it sounds like the stuff of sci fi and you know, and missing pregnancies, and the government, the government actually confirmed the things that I wrote about. I'd already written about this, I'd already talked about this with La Marzuli, and now you know, at this point I was able to add it into the book, thank goodness. But they I've had missing pregnancies happened since I was able to have children. The first time it happened, I
was married. It was my first pregnancy. I was very excited. I went to the doctor, confirmed pregnancy, got my prescription or vitamins. They confirmed everything. Back then, it was blood tests and you know, you get to hear at some point a heartbeat. Not the first visit, obviously, but you had to get prescriptions for your vitamins back then too, and everything. I'm dating myself a little more here, but
that's all right. And about the beginning of the second trimester, I woke up at night and I was my stomach hurt really bad, but I was not bleeding. I was spotting a tiny bit, but nothing came out of me. So my husband at the time took me to the emergency room. You know back then that doctors weren't all connected. We didn't have computers, and everybody's office. Everything was still on paper. I go into the er and they you know, did a doppler thing and there was no heartbeat. And
they did an ultrasound and there was no baby. And they did a test and I still had pregnancy hormones in my system, and they did a d n C and there was no fetal tissue at all in my none whoa zero? And that you know, that's where they Sorry, someone walked in the room. Okay, good timing.
So many follow up questions to this, Oh my god, and.
It's not Yeah, And some of my friends who've talked to me about their similar experiences, would they still have like the placenta would still be or the amniotic sack or different things, random things that would never be left behind, right, but not the baby anyway. But go ahead, okay, okay, okay, this is a really hard one we talk about. So I'm glad that you have questions because it gives me a second.
Oh yeah, No, I'm sorry, I'm sorry for you. Take a minute. It's all good. No, No, you asked, so you were you said, how far along in your pregnancy at this time before, like when everything was still going good? Last doctor visit was all normal, good? How far were you.
End of the first trimester? Started the second trimester, so in the third to fourth month, you know, okay, that's it's a forty weeks, so you're looking at you know, kind of twelve to thirteen weeks is the end of the first trimester.
Okay, And so when you went and how long was it between these two doctors the last time you saw that everything was good and then you came in because of the spotting correct net.
Yeah, so the first visit would be the one where I realized I was pregnant, which was very early on, probably you know, my four to six weeks at that point, and we didn't have these easy to get over the counter piano stick things, you know. Yeah, I mean they came out I think around that time, and they were I think they were pretty expensive, I remember, right. I know by the end of this I would buy like ten of those at a time because I never believed
I was pregnant even when I was, you know. And anyway, so yeah, so into a doctor's pointment sometimes would have two because usually there's the first one and then the second one is right at the end of the first trimester. Usually It just depends on your doctor. It's not always the same. It's not the same with every doctor. So usually there would be at least two appointments by that point in time.
Okay, so multiple appointments, at least at least a couple and you go in because the spotting and there is not only.
It was really the pain. Honestly, with the limited the little bit of spotting ahead, I would not have been concerned, okay, because that's normal to have a little bit sometimes it's just things that happen. The pain, the pain intense.
Okay, So I know people are no women, excuse me, I want to say people, because not all people have ovaries no matter what, quote unquote matter.
No matter what there are, they're called vagina owners.
Now, okay, look, I'm sorry. Men can't have periods, and I will stand by that. Sorry. Anyway, women that I know who have dealt with ovari insists in the past, and they have said about how much pain they are in when these things rupture, all these things. I know multiple women who have had natural childbirth all the stuff. So this was this level of pain.
Oh yeah, I've had this strupture. I mean I've had natural childbirth I've had, you know, three children and and done it all the different ways. And the big proponent of the drugs, I'm just saying, not drugs in general, people, I'm talking about the the ones you get to help you through childbirth, right.
Epidurals and.
Of natural childbirth. I think that's amazing when the women who do it are incredible.
I think also.
As a man, realize that I will never be in a position to get an epidural or not, so I also recognize that my opinion is null and void on this entire talk.
For that, I appreciate that women.
Don't.
They say it's like equivalent to being kicked in the nuts like a thousand times.
It's like taking your bottom lip and ripping it over the back of your skull and then having someone tell you smile for the fucking camera Jesus coming through the front end of you. As a man, from what I have been explained, that's like the best way to describe the pain and all, like what it's like for us, you and I, it's that's unimaginable, that's that's unfathomable things. But for women it's like, oh, y'all don't even know, and it's like, you know what, You're right, and I'm.
Just happy we live in a day and age where we don't have to get the Q tips up our p hole for STD checks, you know what I mean. Like, I hear that that used to be pretty brutal back in the day, thank god, you know, in the day.
Early two thousands. Yeah, look, thank god met modern medicine has come as far as it's come. But in another regard, I'm really upset the modern midicine has come as far as it's come, you know, I mean different fields, different areas of discipline. But yeah, all right, So anyway back to the whole you having a child ripped from your womb. Let's let's stay on topics.
We've gone around, and that was me being a little dramatic about it. But you know, I get upset because people think, oh, these are benevolent space brothers. I'm like, really, and what's your basis for comparison because mine's pretty specific.
Yeah, So okay, let me ask you know, there was no scarring, there was no nerve damage, there was no markings on your body whatsoever. After this abduction, after this whole situation, when you go back in to say, hey, I need to check in on my baby, and they're like, what baby.
Oh wow. And one time they were just like they were so confused. They're like they were convinced it had to be a tubal pregnancy, and so they're like, in looking in my fallopian tubes. One, there's got to be a baby here somewhere, I mean, you know. And then they're always, you know, theyre always have the well, we don't know what happened explanation, but clearly there's an explanation. I just don't know what that is. So it was always absorbed the baby or my favorite is you lost
the baby, you just didn't realize it. And every woman I've talked to him like, do you think that's possible? No, it's not. You're going to know. I'm sorry, And you know, the biggest no offense to you guys are the biggest issues I get from people when I have these conversations, and I'll get like negative comments. Will be men going there's no you just lost a baby. Didn't know. I'm like, how can you? How do you know? What's your basis
for comparison? You know? So anyway, because it is so you know, it is such a as a parent as a man or a woman. To lose a child is one of the most emotionally got wrenching things you can ever go through. And not to be able to memorialize that child, not to know what happened to that child, not to be able to bury that child, not to be able to you know, I know what happened to that child is it was just the emotion that goes along with that, the pain.
Yeah, is incredible, heart break I can.
And now I just now. I talk so many women I have reached out to me with who have had these experiences like this, and they're like, and they're so relieved that there's someone else who has is talking about it because they're like, I was always afraid to talk about it because everyone say something crazy when I try to talk about this, But this happened to me too, and it's just like, you're not crazy. It happened.
Now, was this your first pregnancy?
That one? Yes, okay, but then it happened again.
You know, this happened multiple times?
Oh yeah, three of them that I had confirmed, and beyond that, it would get to the point where I wouldn't even go into the doctor until I get to a certain point because it was too hard, and it was easier to pretend I wasn't pregnant until it got to a certain point and then I go in and because if it got past a certain point, then I knew that that was it was going to be, okay, I wasn't going to lose that baby or whatever, so you know, or it was going to go missing or whatever.
So it definitely definitely was. I even't got my tubes tied after my second child because I thought that would stop it, but it didn't stop it.
So even after your tubes getting tied, you still were able to conceive, and you still were losing them due to these entities. Now, let me ask you this follow up to the follow ups here. Okay, you're saying that this first experience was in the transition between first trimester and second trimester. I'm with you. These other ones that you had, when were they in the in vitro process?
Yeah, all same. I mean it's so hard to pinpoint the date because I would never know what data got pregnant, and especially because what was happening is my eggs were being harvested. However, these embryos are being created, was then being put back into me so for me to know that from the time I found out it would be around the end of the first trimester. Yeah, and it was always about the same time. And interestingly enough, that's the point at which the human body is designed to
reject an embryo if there's something wrong with it. So they clearly knew that. I'm obviously they're very intelligent that if they didn't take it by that point in time, that the body would just reject it anyway and it would end up, you know, and you can't tell when
it's that small what it is. I mean, really, you know, if there was something, if there was a slight difference, if it was a hybrid or a human, it would be very hard to tell for just a normal lay person, not for a doctor, I'm sure, but so and then it was you think that.
They were using you as a host to try to give birth to hybrid children.
I know they were because I held one of those. I have very vivid memory of holding one. I don't know how often this might have happened, but I have a vivid memory of one time when they took me, and then I also saw three of them much later.
So okay, I'm going to get really weird here, and I'm sure maybe I don't.
Think so, but is the progeny of human and an angel and I believe these are angelic beings because they're just not human, and the other entities that we know that God created we call them angels. It's a misnomer. They're just the other beings, right, And so you're not supposed to cross the two. It's like crossing the streams. You don't do it, right. So, yeah, to your point, yes, that's modern day nepheline.
Where I was going Yeah, where I was going at is that there there There are obviously a lot of stories of aliens, but one of the most common ones that I hear, especially that has been around for decades, is that the Grays are the and it's interesting you mentioned the grays here too, is that the grays are are essentially just older versions of us that like grew through you know, technology and mechanics and stuff like that, and they and their bodies essentially just like kind of
withered away because they just got so into the technology or something like that. And so the story goes is that eventually they stop being able to reproduce, and so to keep their race going they would they would like kind of come out here or where, you know, with with human women. I guess, very similar to the Nefflin story. But uh in that sense they would come to the human women and that this is where you'd hear about
all this like astral sex or astral rapist. I guess it's not really you know, you're not wanting it, so it's you know, you hear those kind of stories and it's like, all right, well now we finally have a first hand account of what is going on. And I mean, is was this all by the Grays or was it multiple different kind of alien in quotes beings?
Yeah, I don't know what particular entity provided the other half of the equation for the fetus that I was posting. I have no idea, and they never shared that with me. What I can say was for the time frame that I was used, when my body was viable, and for the and for the children that were pretty much grown. When I saw them, they looked like what people describe as the black eyed kids. They were stocky, they had
very dark eyes. They were wearing hooded like sweatshirt type things when when I saw them, and there appears to me based on what I've seen and what I've encountered with them to be an evolution of while they're working with this program getting different results, you know, more human looking, more able to learn and adapt and be a part
of our society. I think the black Eyed kids were probably like the first step into entities that could actually be here around us, in our airspace, in our you know, in our I don't think in the sunlight.
Yeah, merboreal beings instead of just inter dimensional.
And then you get to someone like what doctor David Jacobs his work were walking among us when he talks about the thousands and thousands of people that he interviewed who have reports of hybrid entities who were as human looking as you and I practically. So it's just, you know, it seems to be and this is you know, only based on my portion of it, knowing that these kids were looking more like black Eyed kids, and that seems to have gone away. Nobody has had those kinds of
sightings the way they were. It seemed to happen in a very specific period of time where they were in that kind of same era when I was having my kids. It makes sense, whereas now there seems to be more and more less and less hybrid type sightings, because I think they're more and more easily integrated into our society if they are here with us at all. So that's my thought process on it.
So you say, if they're here, do you possibly believe I'm not saying do you have this confirmed or not? Yeah, but I'm assuming you were not the only one. You've had so many other women say so many similar stories.
Do you believe at this time that some of them were viable, were born or are even let me ask you this, do you believe that they are possibly in positions of power today or do you think that these hybrid beings somehow are born into out from a human mother and has just accepted that they're human and they're just bebopping along working a little nine to five somewhere. Think Clark Kent before he realized he was Superman.
Right, Yeah, I think that's anything I say on that would be speculation. But my experience, I do one hundred percent believe that at this point they are passing for human. You wouldn't know, and because they've gotten so much better with it, and you know, are there there are things I think that had to happen in our society and our medical society in order for this to happen, because
otherwise it would stand out like a sore thumb. But as our society has progressed, and our medical fields have progressed, and our understanding of things have progressed, it has allowed burst to happen that never would have made it full term or to be pre termed. But they're still in
or you know. Yeah, I think for someone to even have a baby like that to go full term could absolutely happen now, but it wouldn't have been able to happen before without everyone noticing, do you know what I mean, without there being some sort of something that was showing up his odd So it's hard to say, but I do think that they are around. There are too many reports of them, and too many reports of people hosting
hybrid entities and running into them. My friend Al Matthews, who was in the fourth movie of LA's with Me, he has had a really wild encounter with one with a female hybrid entity. And Al has no reason to lie to me, you know, but these are just conversations that he would have a conversation with you if you were ever interested. But these are just conversations I've had with him, you know, and he's had with La and that he's shared with us. But he's got no reason
to lie about that. It's just this crazy thing that happened. And it's not just him. There's so many other people who have had those So one hundred percent think that could they be in positions of power? Oh definitely. I mean you're looking at you look at books like tim Alrena's Birthright where he really gets into how we as humans were given the birthright to the earth, and then you know that's being tried to take away from us. At what point, you know, are they just human enough
to inherit that birthright? At what point are they human enough to take over positions of power, wealth and authority where they can be making these choices and these decisions that affect the humans and that are taking you know, power and authority from us. You know, who is the prince of the power of the air, you know. And then it all goes back to Genesis three, p. Fifteen to the Sea War, because that's when it says and he will breuge your head and you'll crush his heel,
or you crush his head and he will bruise your heel. Sorry, that backwards, and that's that sets up a sea war that never ended. You know, they couldn't stop Jesus from being born, but what they could do was stop as many people from believing as possible.
I think that step further. They couldn't stop the temple being rebuilt, but they could try to kill all the Jews in a holocaust.
Exactly Why have the Jewish people always been so oppressed? You know what I mean? And you know, people are all over on this subject right now, and I'm like, you have to boil it down to the simplest no, I mean, come.
On, I never thought that I would live to see so much vehement anti Semitism in this country like I do right now, Like I neither. It's not even anti Israel or anti who's the president, he's been president, you know, it's not even anti him. It is people being anti like anti semi truefull blood, just hating the Jews. And I'm like, what come from?
Yeah? And then anywhere where there's hate, you know, And I don't understand that because hate doesn't do us any good, It doesn't help anyone. I mean, we don't have to agree. I don't have to agree with y'all. You don't have to agree with me. And you've been so kind to me tonight. And I know that I'm bringing some pretty controversial stuff up, but you've been so kind to me because you guys don't have that kind of You don't come at people with hate. It doesn't do us any
good to do that, you know. I mean, I respect your beliefs, you respect mine. I think that's amazing. We need to be that way if we're gonna survive. Ever, you know, I mean, there just isn't any reason for it. It just breaks my heart. I mean, there's enough pain in this world. I can attest to personally to that. There is more than enough pain in this world to
go around. We need to not to get on a weird soapbox, but you know, we need to bring that down a notch and do our part to make it better, to make it agree.
Yeah, that's I mean, it's definitely needed. And you know I know that definitely riding like riding around in these conspiracy realms, it can get a little heated, it can get a little conflicted. I mean, how me and Jacob have almost chewed each other's heads off. A couple of times.
But you know, that's just differing belief and that's all right, you know, like there's no way of confirming a lot of these things, but we can speculate, we can theorize, we can put our brains together and try and come up with some kind of solution or some kind of answer to the questions that we seek. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. And and you know, just because y'all are are are Christians, and you know, it doesn't mean that like I think, I think that's a
great thing. I I'm happy that, you know, we have guests and even Jacob, I'm I'm happy that we don't think the same way because it allows us to look through all these different lines of vision and all these different perspectives that you know, like if I can't figure something out, Jacob probably can. If Jacob can't figure something out, I probably can. And if we can't figure up mount, we bring Karen Wilkinson on the show. Maybe she can figure it out.
You know.
Like that's the beautiful thing about these, uh, these open ended like conversations. And I mean, I mean, I'm I'm so sorry to hear about what you've had to go through in your life. But I'm I'm very thankful that you're you're actually telling the story, because that is just it's just insane. I mean, most people they go through one of those things, they're scarred for life.
And here you are.
You're like, oh, yeah, I got visited by demons or aliens multiple times and I'm just around to tell talked.
About talk to people about it.
And it's like, oh my god, the cohon is on you.
It's crazy. I'm jealous. You're you're you're how can I put this gone?
Yourumption? Thanks. It hasn't been easy, trust me. And I have broken down more often than not, and I have had my moments where I really wanted to leave this earth. And that's where I know that God is with me because he stopped me every time. And I don't know how, you know, it's just it's a lot. And yeah, I still break down all the time, so you know, it's easy to put forward sometimes a brief face with people, and then later I go down and you know, I
have my moments. But yeah, it was a lot. It was and it affected every part of my life, and it left up every part of my life. Trust me, you know, I didn't have good relationships. I didn't, you know, I Yeah, it messed up everything. But in the end, everything came back together in the end, you know, the blessings abound in the end. You know, I have beautiful, happy, healthy children whom I love more than life itself, you know, than anything, and and so that there there's a lot
to be grateful for too. But yeah, it's a lot, and it's been hard, and probably more than we can even discussed in two or three hours. But that's okay, because we can we can bring more of it back. But yeah, I hate to see people argue and fuss over differences of opinion on things when I know that I do not know everything. I know what I know and the rest of it. I'm never gonna sit here and say I'm right and you're wrong, because I can't
do that. That's not it works. We have to learn from each other.
And I don't even mind people disagreeing, and I don't even mind people getting passionate about their beliefs. And maybe tempers do get flaired sometimes and people do get serious about what it fine, fine, fine, But as long as there is a level of respect, right and a level of even if we just we get screaming at each other, like, yeah, we're gonna go have a beer after this and be cool. This is a conversation, and once the conversation ends, its ending,
it's all good. But also in another light, I can relate to very small fragments of your entire store. But a few of the things you experienced, I experienced. But this was in no way, shape or form. Did I think this was an alien, not even once this was confirmed a demon from the word go. But again, this didn't. This didn't have the same effect on me as it did on you. It wasn't as frequent, it wasn't as violent it was there was not near the level. I think my experiences was more of a very very small
scratch of the surface of what could have been. Don't get me wrong, but and the times of that happened, an angel was sent or something along those lines, and looking at what the demon looked like and everything, like, I feel you one thousand percent.
What was that angel's name again, by the.
Way, the angel's name, Yeah, Jonathan, you dick. I'm not happy about that, all right. I know you're just grinning ear to ear, shithead, but you know whatever, I can't change my angel's name. I would if I could, you bastard, if I could.
But anyway, I mean, it literally means God's gifts, so you're welcome.
You know.
That's the other thing too. It just fits anyway. Anyway, But I was talking about the waking paralysis. I had one experience like that, and I used to have scars on it on me from what happened in that experience, but it was they have long since passed, and it was a as far as the entirety of my life goes, a one off, and I saw that as a massively traumatic experience and something that I didn't want to talk about with people. I didn't talk about with my church
group because again that's fucking weird. I told my mom about it once upon a time, and like she was aware of some things, but didn't know the whole scope, because again I didn't exactly know how to explain this. It wasn't until much later in my life when I finally grasped everything, did research into everything, and then eventually felt comfortable enough to be like, you know what, I we need to talk about this on the show. And
it was. It was cathartic in a lot of ways to come forward and like talk about this thing that like had been weighing on me. Not that it was weighing on me to get it out, it was weighing on me because like that sucked, Like why would I want to retell these stories? You know what I mean? But just like you said, there's power in that, and
there is there's truth in that. And I cannot tell you how many people have messaged us DMed me, found me in some way, shape or form and told me like, look, bro, you sharing your story helped me in so many ways I had stories just like that. This validated so many things.
Oh my god. I'm like, look, I'm happy, Like I want these people to share these stories and like we get these things out, we can collectively figure out we all regardless of whatever religious dogma, whatever god you worship, whatever book you banging, whatever, you believe that there is a good force and a bad force. There is a light and a dark, a positive, a negative. Either way you want to say, there's good shit at work and
there's bad shit at work, okay, fair enough. If enough people are collectively having these bad work experiences, and the forces and entities look the same, act the same smell the same, talk the same. Now, look, I'm no mathematician, but if it looked like a duck and walk like a duck, guess what half flat? You know what I'm saying.
That's it. So if all of us are coming together with these stories and these similar experiences and some very dissimilar, but like I said, there was a few comparisons that I could at least draw, I believe that all of this is in the same realm, and I kind of think we're talking about the same same entities in a degree, if not maybe creatures influenced and corrupted by other entities. Even I don't know how many levels to this five
D chess we got going on here. God's way more intelligent than I'll ever grasp, you know exactly.
Now. I love how you put all that, and that's so true, and yeah, I love that we don't all have to agree on it. But you're right, we don't have all the answers. We don't know how many different types of these entities there are and which ones are influenced by what. But what I will tell you is this. You know, if I'm standing speaking in front of a crowd of people and I ask who here thinks it's
okay to kidnap a five year old child. Who here thinks it's okay to rape a woman or a man, And here thinks it's okay to steal a child from a fetus from a woman's womb. You know who here thinks it's okay to mutilate animals and humans. It's not just cattle mutilations. Humans are mutilated to and other animals.
I don't ever get anyone standing up or raising their hand so in that respect, without being dismissive of anyone else's beliefs, it kind of proves my point that these are not the ones that I have encountered, are not
our benevolent space brothers. And I am not decrying what anyone else's stories are, what anyone else is saying, because those are their experiences and their stories, and I would not take that from anyone, and I would I one hundred percent respect what other people have to say and the fact that they're willing to share their experiences as well. It takes a lot of guts to do it, I know for sure, But my experiences were not benevolent space
brothers from ZEA reticulate. They were very malevolent beings. They are falling angelic beings. When I call on Jesus, they backed the heck up and they leave and they know they can't be around me when I do that. And they have absolutely confirmed to me who and what they are.
And I told you just here's what's up.
Well, they haven't said said I'm this and such version of this and such entity that God created, but they have absolutely confirmed to me that, yes, God is their creator as well. Yes they have to obey if I call on his name. Yes there's nothing that they can do about it. Yes, they know that I'm protect did and they still are trying to convince me to come back and get involved with them. And I'm like, no, oh no, you know but absolutely so. You know, that
doesn't mean that anyone else is why. It doesn't mean that anyone else is wrong. It means that this is what I am talking about, and that these are the entities that I have encountered. But I will tell you this, there were a lot of people there, a lot of other people being taken with me. When I was taken. There were humans working alongside these entities, and I listened to them be threatened not to talk and you know, you can understand. And someone gets this super fun high clearance. Hey,
you're doing so great at this job. We're going to give you this new high high security clearance. But you got to sign an NDA and now you're here, and now if you say a word or this is what we're going to do, your wife, your daughter, your friend, your neighbor, your children, and then these people like me to show them what would happen to their families and their friends. And that was sick, and I wrote about that.
I'm not going to go into a lot of detail, but you know, I understand why these people didn't help me. I understand why they didn't talk to me. But you know, I can't understand why someone would call this benevolent behavior because it's not.
So You're down there in this like this underground factory for a better term, I mean, for a lack of a better term. Did you did you notice anybody down there that maybe looked familiar at all?
Now, you know, part of the problem when you're taking is that you get this kind of sometimes not every time, but this kind of brain foggy thing, you know, so and everyone is always off going to hear going to their doing what they're doing. So when I would be in a room with like all the screen on the wall and to watching like whatever movie type thing they wanted me to watch that day. Sometimes it was like these massive floods and things like that and what have you.
There would be other humans, but it was never the same ones. I don't ever remember seeing the same. The only ones I saw that were the same were my handler and some of the entities like the insect insect ones that looked like the praying man see kind of faces. They had the really big long arms that they went like, up, I can't do it with my arms to show you a bit like and then the weird hands or whatever
they were appanages. They it always seemed like there was the same one in certain rooms, you know what I mean. They looked never looked different. But as far as the humans, I've never necessarily run into anyone outside of there, but there are there are always people where you're like, oh, I feel like I know you. You know what I mean, when you meet someone and you're just like, I know that, I know you. I know I feel the same way.
I know that I've had so many of those types of weird encounters sure, it's like why do we know each other? And it's like, you know you've spent time with someone, but you can't figure out how how you feel why you feel that way, Maybe somebody you.
Knew from a past life or something like that.
Yeah, like exactly and except for for me, you know, I knew it wasn't that. It's just like I really know that I've spent time with this person. I'm like, how do we know each other? And we're trying to figure out how we know each other? Did we go to the same high school?
No?
Did we grow up in this noow. I've lived in a lot of places and I can't never find that connection. How do we know each other? You know what I mean? I've had that happen too many times for me to think it's a coincidence where we can't figure out why we know that we know each other, but we do. So I've had that kind of thing happen.
From down there is what you're saying, You, Yeah, I know them from wherever?
That?
I mean, do you have a name for what you call down there?
How was my next question or do you know where it was?
This?
Like contineal us? Was this like they had transported you to Africa and they went underground, Like do you even know where in the world you were? Could have been.
Okay, right, Well, I know that. I mean physically, we're always just physically there with other physical people. And I know people were coming and going and speaking English. So I'm assuming it was here in America or in this continent only because and that doesn't mean it was, but just there was a lot of English speaking people, but there were also people speaking languages I didn't understand, but
it seemed like there were a lot of English speaking people. Also, though I know that there was one place by the Ohio River where there were bricks, and I just remember going into that place and then somehow that leading to and I won't go back there. I won't even look for it because I can't. But so I feel like that was an entry point somewhere there. I have memories of being somewhere sandy, and then there's an entry point
weird memories of different geological things. However, having said that, I don't have any specific location information except that it was just there. It was underground, it was just where I went. It was just it was just there. Yeah, I haven't called it anything really honestly, because it was where where are we going today? Well, we're going this way, or we're going to that part, or we're going to you know, the exam area, or we're going to this
waiting room, where we're going to this viewing room. Where we're going to you know, there was the one that.
The reason why I asked is because there is confirmed at least five hundred underground bases that the governments that are used strictly to store and house blocks of cheese. Right, there's hundreds, if not thousands of missile silos and domes deep underground military bunkers. We know about Mount Shasta and all these things. So that's why I brought up if you knew anything about the location. But it also it can be underwater. Reason why in the transportation process some
of those details are a little fussy. This makes sense to me as well.
It does. And the thing is too, they're so big and so much connected, and the way it was traveling when it was taken, when I would get to the elevators, when they would take me there but didn't want me to see, you know, they don't want you to know where you're going to a certain point and then because that would just there would not be good obviously, But it's so huge, I mean it could cover I don't know. I mean it literally could cover from underground to underwater,
underground to another continent. You know, I hadn't because there were these the trains that I would get on, you know, if these high speed rails, I had no idea how far they went or where they went. But you know there are the sky's limit as far as the underground selimit. I guess as far as it was going. But you know they're huge. I mean the just mazes of hallways and stuff. If I didn't have a handler and someone just let me go, I mean, who knows how lost I could have gotten.
Now, how old were you the last time you were taken to one of these places? Or how long ago was it?
Yeah, it wasn't very long ago. The last time was only about was after my near death experience. But after that then I or was it yeah, it was right after. It wasn't long after that. I was about a year after that maybe.
If that so seven years ago?
Yeah, about seven years ago, and and then that's when I I, you know, I just I won't go into how that all happened. But that's when I did find my way back and to my faith, and all of a sudden, God just it's like turned on all these lights for me, and it was just like I get it. I know what it is, I know what to do. And the first time I stood up to them, it was so amazing and incredible and I was free. I
was free. And I had last attacks after that where they've tried to come back and they have not not tried. They have tried to come back over and over again. They can't cross my threshold. I've broken all threshold covenant. I've learned a lot about that stuff from my friend Vicki joy Anderson, who you guys should talk to you sometimes. She's amazing, but she helped me a lot with that, with agreements I made that I didn't know I made,
with covenants I made I didn't know I made. And then there were astral as well, where my handler came back. It was about a year ago. It was an astral and we went back into an area of the underground where it's very like carved out of stone, and it's
an area been familiar with. It's been there. I don't know how many maybe hundreds of times, who knows, but as an area I was really familiar with, but it was there an astral So it was really weird because I've always been there physically, and I knew I wasn't physically there but I was okay, and I knew God was letting it happen for a reason. I just didn't know what it was, and because I have since learned that. Anyway, So we're there and he is has some of me.
He wanted me to be there and he wanted he was begging me to come back, and he looked terrible. He looked sick. He looked like he was dying. He looked like this flat met almost brownish green color. He was so I've never seen the detail on his face before because he was always almost shining, and I saw every crease line down the middle and across his forehead and just every weird detail that I had never noticed before. And maybe I was seeing him through different eyes as well.
There is also that possibility. But he really tried to pull on my sense of wanting to save everything, Like if there's an animal that needs to be saved, I'm going to save it if it needs a home, I'm going to take care of it, same with a child or an adult or anybody. I'm just one of those rescuers. And he was really trying to take advantage of that and utilize that on me to try to get me too and I and try to trick me into doing
something that would have been detrimental to me. And so I just went back to my faith and I said, look, you know, if you can admit that Jesus is, you know, God here on earth in the flesh, and came to do this and then you know, and went through my and that was it.
So have you done any research as to why this creature looked different this last go round?
Yeah?
So I'm not saying this for sure because I don't know all the ins and outs of your story and of your life. That being said, I know from personal experience and also research that I have done into demonic entities, the what's the name of the book, the Big Grimoire that's like the basically demonic Bible and you name it.
I've delved into it, just not to dive into because I was into it to dive into it for research, Like strictly the reason why he looked so old and frail, and all of that was because he was weak and starving and dying. Uh, not physically dying, because we know these creatures don't do that, more like his connection to you was dying. These entities, from what I have found, they feed off of fear for a lot of people. That's why children always see these shadow creatures or whatever
that terrify them. And these entities feed off of fear literally like its food. Some of them go for a different approach. Yeah, there's demons do demonic shit, demonic ways, that's how they get down. But from the research that I've done, Also random question, but also very curious, did you notice a change in eye color for Mere Handler at any given point in your exposure to him?
Oh? Definitely.
What color eyes did they have? Give me the whole rundown.
It go from these almost icy blue eyes to a golden to brown, and then the black would go this way or this way. It was so weird. I mean, the eyes were what freaked me out the most. But the last time they were almost this like a dirty gold color like flex in there, like flexi brown and gold. It was just it's just and he said he needed to be physically with me to heal him, because I'm like, I'm not your savior. I'm not the person who can heal you. You know, That's not how I'm doing this. It's
not how I'm living my life anymore, you know. So I didn't have to be afraid, which was really wild because I finally had myself put to that test where we were face to face again. Because it had been a long time, and I've had them outside my window, I've had them out there somewhere and in the skies and stuff, and I always feel them when they're around the entities in general. But this is the first time he ever, Yeah, this closed face to face, and I wasn't scared.
So whenever you're whenever you know you're you're talking to this demon or reptilian or handle or whatever he is, and you're saying like, I'm not your savior, I'm not going to be the one to save you, like you think you need me, and you're you're telling them about, you know, whatever your faith is, whether it's Jesus God, whatever, And at any point in time, do you think that he kind of got a little bit more curious and wanted to know a little bit more, or do you think.
Do you think that these demons they just laugh at the whole idea about being saved by God? Is it like a joke to them?
They know more about our Christian Bible than anyone I've ever met. They know it forwards and backwards literally, because they know how the story ends front to back. They know everything we're thinking. They know everything that's in that book and more. They are so much more well versed in it. There's nothing I can could say that would shed any light on anything for them. And there it's unbelievable how much they know. But don't get in a quote in contest with them. I'll tell you that.
Well, I mean they were there, you know what I mean, when the book was being written and when the events were actually taking place. They were like, you know, physically there.
So and the only you know, yeah, I mean it's just you know, we have all these different interpretations and versions and stuff like that, and they're all just like, no, they they know they know better than we do.
So I'm gonna be honest with you talking about the eye color thing for a minute. So the research that I did, my demonic entity had gold eyes for the majority of my life. Now that was. I'm not saying he was some sort of a general in the Demonic Army by any means, but at least somebody with a little bit of stroke. He had a little bit of power behind him and could actually do some things. The last time that he presented himself to me, he had
red eyes, but they weren't like a bright red. They were like a very dark I don't want to say maroon, but very a dark, dark red, very muted tone. The research that I did basically meant that that at that time, anyway, that demon had dropped a level. Now I don't know if that's like a rank. I don't know if that's a power level. I don't know to what degree that meant, but he had taken he had been brought down a
Pegger two. And again I don't even know if that's because of me or because he was doing a lot of shit to other people and collectively he had lost his loss himself. I don't know. I don't know. But blue eyes, now that's interesting. I don't know much about blue eyed demons what I and I know if you look any of this up on Google, you're gonna find anything about the Ice King game of thrones, all the shit.
If I'm not mistaken, and I could be, I'm going to do research when we wrap this episode, I promise you, because this is interesting. If I'm not mistaken, a blue eyed demon is some how could I put this because it's not the only terms I could use, their human terms. So it's very difficult to explain what I'm trying to explain.
Well careful too, because he wasn't a demon, he was a fallen angelic being demons angels?
Is that not literally the same thing?
Well not according to well not according to what I've experienced, it not according to our biblical no, because.
Yeah, we've had people on that's come on and said that same thing, that demons and fallen angels are not the same thing.
They're angels are demonic, and you can call them demons. That's fine, but it's a misnomer because demons are the disembodied spirits of the nepheline because when they died, when they were first taken out in the flood, and then after that, God said, you're neither of heaven or of earth. There is no to go. So these are the ones that inhabit the little grays, the ones that tried inhabit people that Jesus cast out of the guys and went
into the pigs. So yeah, I mean demons, and if they're in a body, then the eye color can change for sure. I was just asking for clarity more for myself.
No, no, I'm with you, and I think I kind of group them all into the demon or demonic realm, because yes, the nephileine, the disembodied souls of what was once a walking Nephileine, Yes, they can't go up or down. But I think because their parentage is of those fallen angels, I just kind of lump them all in under the same term. So my apologies for the misnumber.
Oh no, I was just trying to con for myself clarify what if we're talking about the same thing or not?
Okay, okay, so the whole same idea behind like the devil, Lucifer, and Satan. Are they all three different entities? Are they all the same thing? Well, we maybe they all kind of act the same, so we group them in the same thing.
You know.
There's a lot of opinions on that as well well.
But then as a different terminology. So I'm just trying to clarify for myself too, So please don't think I was. I hope that I'm sorry.
But then there's also different there's different literature on that topic as well, different ones that are been verified in fact checks and all the things, and experts in these fields cannot stop agreeing with X or Y, even though they're conflicting and like all the things, all the things. But it depends on what source you're looking at. Okay. So a lot of people believe that, yes, Satan was cast out, a third of the angelic body was cast out with him. All of these creatures fell to earth.
All of these creatures became demons, tried to come to Earth corrupt God's creation. We got the nephil from it, all these things. Yes, yes, yes, and they just kind of throw it in. Other people believe something more along the lines of a Paradise Lost. Have you ever heard or read that book?
Milton?
Yeah, Milton, you know it. Okay, So, yes, they were all cast but only like you know, Satan and nine of his top dogs were like actually like among the it's so, and then you got the whole Dante Allegary's version of everything. So it's like you have so many different opinions of things. So again, just to my knowledge and background, you're saying that this was not a demon that was attached to you. You're saying that it was the disembodied soul of a once nepheline.
No, I'm.
Okay, I'm sorry, I'm sorry I misunderstood.
So, and that is for them as angels, yeah, whatever you want to call them. But it was just it wasn't disembodied. It was fully in its body that it had always had, and it was a fallen entitate whatever you want to call it.
So, quite literally a sexy beast.
Dare I say there, didn't you?
Because yes, quite literally, I did, unfortunately have a Stockholm syndrome type attachment to him for a very long time. Wow.
And that I have one more question for you, and I'm and it's something that like you know, because you say that you're you're being taken physically, right, okay. So, and that's another reason why I asked, when was the most recent time now in all of these events that you're being taken? Did you have anybody else sleeping in the bed with you? Was your husband there with you? Were your kids ever there with you? Did they ever realize that you ever left the room.
Yeah, oh yeah, there were other people there and they would be in this crazy sleep state where nothing I did would rouse them. There was one time when I was driving in a car with a friend of mine and it was like this horrible, out of nowhere lightning storm comes up, all the lights in the cargo out car goes, you know, off to the side of the road, and we're like power outage. I write about this in the book because it was so weird. You know, we
made a funny comment that made no sense whatsoever. Next thing, you know, we're driving down the road on our way home. I don't even know how much time passed. We never spoke of it. So in that occasion, I'm you know, guessing that he was taken us with me. But when I had my husband or someone in the bed with me, they would just be how cold, like just dead to the world, no way to rouse them when and on occasion I would just make my current husband he wakes
up for anything. I would just you know, try to get him to nothing, no response whatsoever.
Do you ever think about like putting a camera in the room.
Yeah, I just don't like the idea fall asleep with a camera on me. Yeah no, but yeah, you know, I guess that would have been a good idea in retrospect, but I never really thought about doing that.
Now, Well, these things are few and far between, aren't they? Like how often are these happening? Like every six months or a year, every couple of years.
When I was little, it seemed like it was happening all the time, But really looking back on it, it's not as frequent as that, because you know, you're thinking back on a lifetime and you know, maybe it's once a month, maybe it's twice a month, you know, as
an adult, certainly, yeah, not. It just depended like if they were doing a insemination type thing and there was going to be a series of events, and it did seem very cyclical, Like, yeah, there were definitely seasons of my life or times in my life where it was
happening a lot more often. So then it would get to a point where it just when you give yourself the permission to separate this part of your life from that part, the thought of putting a video camera or something to capture them doesn't really cross your mind because you've already separated your day to day life from what's happening, and so for me, when I just split from that,
for lack of a better word, I really did. I mean, knowing it was happening, knowing they were there, and knowing it was coming, being frightened all the time, that's one thing. But then allowing myself to think logically about what to do about it, But that's bringing it in.
And I was in a different world at that point.
It is, and I wasn't willing to bring it in to my life anymore. It's too hard, you know, as too hard as it was. But then to have to think logically about it meant meant that I really would be forced to look at it, and I didn't want to.
So I want to ask you this, and I wish that we can go longer. We have another show coming up here in like a half an hour or else we would extend this bad Boy four hours, but that only opens the door for another show.
I only last for so long anyway, So yes, we can definitely continue this another time.
Absolutely, Okay, great, But one last question I have for you so and you might not even remember this, this is I get it. Whenever you would have these let's just call them sessions where you're going to another place and being abducted by these entities. Do you recall the the state of mind that you were in. Were you in a fearful state of mind before you went to bed?
Was it a shitty day leading up to this? Were there bad things that were going on in your life that would essentially open the door for something like this to happen.
Good question.
Yeah, there were a lot of things that opened doorways for this in my life. There were Masons in my family. I myself was inducted into the Rainbow Girls, which is the young young girl version.
Yeah, that's the kid version of the Eastern Star, very similar being the kid version of the Masons.
Yeah, my mom and dad were Eastern Star in d Malay. My grandfather was a very high level Mason. They were members of my family who dabbled in some of the darker arts and things like that. You know, there'd be a Weegi board. My dad was completely against those things, let me tell you right now, but they still find their way in and so they were all all kinds of things. I could read cards from the day I could pick up a deck of cards. I could read minds from the day. I could look at somebody I
could tell you what was going to happen. Premonitions abounded on me. I mean just all kinds of stuff like that, you know, sleepovers, when you'd have slumber parties and everyone would do seances, things I could put my fingers under someone, and.
That seemed to be a whole thing with girl slumber parties. I feel like it's like a rite of pass. It's kind of like the whole Bloody Mary and the Mirror thing, like that's the thing the kids do. Apparently, little girl sleepover is like, why is a feather stiff as a board just happens?
Yeah, it must have come with a manual. I don't know, because that was like every single one. Yeah, And then I got to the point where I wouldn't even go near it because when one little girl actually gets lifted up the floor, everyone starts screaming and crying and everyone goes home, and it's not the slumber party you want to have with your girlfriends when you're seven years old. So you she was just saying, so you know, and every actually expects it to happen. I will say that as well.
Right, everybody thinks secretly that it's a joke. And nothing's going to happen until they make a kid levitate, and it's.
Like, okay, someone levitates and she starts crying, and then everyone gets in trouble.
And then you got called the moms and they're wondering what kind of demonic house they let their daughters sleep. It's a whole thing, especially in the Bible building.
All right, Oh yeah, and then it's do you way more than a duck or rocks or whatever? Three small rocks or whatever.
So it's.
So you were you were basically kind of raised around dark, crazy, wild things. I mean, growing up as in the Rainbow Grills and your parents being involved in the Masons and stuff like that, and seances and tarot cards and psychic readings and whenever you look back. I hate that I'm even the person that has to ask this question, but I mean, are those all kind of powers of the devil?
In your opinion?
Well, there are certainly things that are forbidden because you know, because they are you're going back into. It's not that they're forbidden because we can't do them. It's not that we're there forbidden because they're not possible. They're forbidden because when we start opening these doorways and interacting with these entities that are stronger and more intelligent and more aware and have the ability to manipulate space, time, matter, energy
and see and understand things that we can't. It's like putting a puppy and alliance Dan, we're defenseless. There's a reason we're told not to do it. Not because God doesn't want us to have any fun or win the lottery or whatever people might do with it. It's because it's dangerous for us and we're not equipped for that, and we're dealing with entities that He knows how much stronger they are than we are and how much more capable.
So it also kills them that people acknowledge that power corrupts. But then they want to go fuck with entities that are far more powerful than they can even comprehend. And that's like a positive thing, oh, because they're good guys. Like hmm.
People enjoy scaring themselves with things like content houses and all these other things where they're encountering these these entities that are clearly scary, you know, and watching scary movies and doing these other things because they know it exists, but they don't really want to admit it. Or admit that the power that it possesses or the danger that it can put a person in. So yeah, I was definitely opening portals left and right. Others were opening those
portals for me. Somewhere along the line, someone gave permission for me to be taken. And whether it was something as simple as the creata treaty, or whether it was something as complex as my grandfather putting me up as his sacrificial thing or whatever, you know what I mean, who knows. I have no idea who gave what permissions, but quite a few of them. I quite likely just gave myself right and unknowingly or knowingly but not realizing how dangerous it was, just thinking it was fun. Yeah,
the same, It's just the Oigi board. It's just fun. And no, playing with the Wigi board doesn't mean you're automatically opening yourself up to being abducted or taken or opening a portal. No, but you don't want to take the chances, especially if you've got friends and family and loved ones. If you got children, you got your dog, anyone you love that's also vulnerable, you're going to put them in harm's way too. And we have to think
about others, not just ourselves. And that's not something I realized, but it's something I've since learned. You know that regardless of who opened those portals, open those doorways, gave those permissions, I was able to ask for those things to be closed, to be negated, to be ended on my behalf and I had but I had to do that, you know, and because it's me and it's affecting me, and it
can affect others. So that was my responsibility and that's how I was able to stop it and to free myself from this lifetime of of just terrifying abduction experiences.
Well, Aaron, we we appreciate all the time that you've come to spend here with us very insightful information. I mean, the the experiences that you have on multiple occasions. And I'm sure we barely even graze the surface, to be honest with you, because there's certain things that you just said in that last sentence. I was like, well, what what? What I need to know more? But we'll we'll make this a whole series. It'll it'll definitely we'll cover as
much as we possibly could. I don't I don't care how many episodes it takes we love having you, we love talking to you, and anybody that wants to be able to find any of your information or reach out to you look into your book. Where where would they be able to find that information?
Okay, well thanks? First of all, I love you guys too. Just sit and talk with you, guys. Has been so easy this time flew by and yes there's we just scratched the surface. But I will come back anytime because it is so fun and easy to talk to you guys. I feel like I've actually laughed more tonight than I have ever in another interview, so that is great because this is not easy subject material to talk about, so thank you for that. You can find me. My website
is Karen Wilkinson author dot com. I'll give you all this for the show notes or you should have it, and from there you can find links to everything. But the book is available exclusively at Lamarzuli dot dot net. That's l A m A r z U l l i dot net. Links to that are also on my website and on my social media Facebook and Instagram. It's just under my name. On Facebook It's Karen Wilkinson and on Instagram it's Karen Wilkinson author. I don't know why I couldn't get the same and all of those have
links to each other. So if you want to reach out to me, please don't hesitate. There's a contact page on my website. I will get back to you, not always right away. I get a lot of messages and I do take the time to go through each one myself and respond myself, so it does take time, but I will get back to your promin it's just really busy.
I will be at the I'll be in Orlando at the Prophecy Watchers conference end of I don't know when this is coming out, so that'll be the end of February beginning of March, and then I'll have more events on my website very soon as soon as I have everything else confirmed. There's a bunch of events coming up this year that I will be at. I love to
meet people at events. Just sign copies of the book, talk to people, meet people, talk about what their experiences are, and just you know, share with each other and just have an opportunity to talk and meet people is probably the best part of this. So please reach out to me if you're looking to just share your story or want to just have someone with something in common don't hesitate.
Absolutely well, look, we appreciate it so much. This was so much fun and like I said, can't wait to do it again, but until next time, this was another beautiful episode of the Cult of Conspiracy. And my name's Jonathan Drake and there's one very important, extremely vital piece of information we need you to learn just as soon as humanly possible. Open up that third