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Hi, and welcome back to another episode of Deplorable Nation. I'm your host, Deplorable Janet, and today I have two lovely, beautiful returning guests to the show. This is going to be kind of a continuation of the part one that we did on intangible drivers and knowing what uh what makes people tick behavior wise. So today we're going to get into bullying and unconscious confrontation. So welcome back mister John Lenhart and mister ed Maybe. So, how are you
guys doing? Sorry that I had a little cat down here that was biting on me, So sorry I got sidetracked.
Yeah, no, I'm doing great. This is this is one of my favorite topics to talk about. I'm sure that we're going to raise a lot of eyebrows today. I'm looking forward to it as well.
It's you know, learning what I've learned from from John from flow sas has just been amazing for me. And I'll chime in here and there where I can, But yeah, this is definitely in John's wheelhouse, and I think people are going to learn a lot of very valuable information today.
And I'm looking forward to this because this is such a huge problem for so many people and it's not just children that are affected by this. People take bullying into adulthood and can't seem to break the cycle of behavior a lot of times, in my personal opinion, because I was the recipient of bullying for a very very long time, and I took that meekness from the bullying right It made me very meek and timid, and all
of those things. Took that into future relationships like the baggage that it is, you know, until I was able to finally pack that away and be like, you know what, I'm better than this. I deserve better than this. So I think this topic is going to hit home for a lot of people, children and adults included. So I'm very glad that we're doing this today. So here's a question, do you think that there are like specific types of people that fall into the bullying routine that become the bullies.
I don't think so. I think that everybody who bullies has been bullied. And so that's one of the things that I say that upsets people the most about bullying is we look at a situation where and I love what you said, the bullying is not just confined to kids. Especially in the c suite esos, they are the best bullies in the world and they bully management like crazy. And so when somebody but let's just take the kid example, because eybody's familiar with that. So this student bullies this kid.
And I like to say to people, how many victims do we have in this scenario? And everybody else say one? And I'm like, you got two, right, because the bully wouldn't bully if they also hadn't been bullied. So I think anybody can become a bully because they can get bullied by somebody else. And the issue I wrote a whole series on LinkedIn called the Hypocrisy of Bullying because I say to people, what's your definition of bullying? And the definition is really to intimidate or to cause harm
in order to control behavior. So what you're doing is whenever, whenever you're trying to control behavior by either intimidating something or threatening harm, you're bullying. So when this kid bullies this kid, how do you treat it? What you're really saying is how do I change the behavior of the bully? And if the answer is you intimidate them, you threaten them, you punish them, aren't you bullying the bully? And so isn't that being a hypocrite? And that's the issue is
how do we how do you deal with bullying? Because if your solution to bullying is to bully the bully, then you believe bullying works.
And and you're doing the exact same thing. It's kind of like raising up kids, right, And I think we kind of touched on this in the last episode where they observe your behavior right as a parent, and like throwing trash at the trash can and you miss and so it stays on the floor, or not picking up your dishes, you know, leaving me on the table or on the chair or something, and kids pick up everything
that you do. And so if they see you bullying your spouse or bullying your children, they in turn will do the exact same thing that they learned from you.
Whenever I help a family, I say seventy five percent of the issues would go away if the spouses would get along better. For the exact reason you said, Janet, is that the kids are mimicking that. If I teach the parents all these things to do to the kids, but the parents don't do that to each other, You're right, it's a it's a waste of time.
Right, absolutely.
So, yeah, so that's that's the issue. Now, before we get into these specifics about how to help with bullying, I want to point out one more thing because I help a lot of executives deal with bullying from the c suite, and you would think that it would get me into these companies, but it never does because the people in charge of the company got there by bullying. So here's the reality. We tell kids, do not bully, But what we're really saying is don't bully until you graduate high.
School and then how about it.
Right, But that's how you become successful in this country and in corporate America. So that's the real message we send is bullying is wrong in school until you graduate, and then go ahead and bully, because if you look at a corporation, the way people got to the level they're at is because they bullied.
And you know, one thing I thought of when you were talking about like the control right that bullying exerts over people with the intimidation and all that, and it immediately popped into my head. Narcissists are amazing at control, manipulation and intimidation tactics, right, and it has to be their idea, their way or the highway. Nobody can do anything right except them, and they can't take accountability for
anything that they say or do to someone else. You know that that causes harm or you know, intimidation, fear, any of those kind of things that go along with it. And that's kind of why I asked the question about is there a certain type of person that turns into a bully? Because there are so many narcissists in the world. Do you think that they themselves were bully at some point or they just automatically turned into this ego testical, you know, maniacal.
Yeah, I want to I want to let John talk about narcissism because I know he's done a lot of work on that. But one thing I want people to keep in mind as just an overall just watchwords is in a big picture, there is really fear because why do you control? Why does anyone want to control something? Because they're afraid of what would happen if they let
go of control? Right, And and like John said, people who become bullies in the c suite, they learned it by when when they when they go an entry level, they're being bullied by a manager. Then they become a manager by you know, showing that hey I can I'll bully some of my co workers and they say, hey, what, this guy has leadership skills, right, coworkers, let's make him a manager. Any manager you bully by the director, Then when you become a director, you know you're being you'reing
bullied by the VP and the c suite. And but but the reason for it is that you feel that fear. So that first time you felt fear was when you were entry level. You were afraid. How do you deal with your fear? Well, you deal with your fear by trying to control the situation, trying to control others or even shifting blame onto others. So it's really your it's a it's a defense mechanism in order to deal with the fear. And I want I'll talk about fear a
little more later. Wrong, people don't understand that control and fear go hand in hand. So just like you have, you know, children, we have fears in we children because we just we don't know a lot, and you know, we are in a very vulnerable position as children. So we deal with fear on different levels and we learn to cope with that fear. One of those coping mechanisms
could be passing that fear to others. You know, I see it in my I have two boys, and I see when when I'm not behaving well towards one of them, to my oldest, I can see him taking it out on my younger on the younger side because he is
is in fear and he's trying to control it. So the whole point of this is when you have a CEO who's bullying behind that there is Yes, there's narcissism to a degree in this, but there's also a fear of not being in control, of being exposed because at some point he's in his It's it's a lot with males. I speak from that point of view every time when you were a male, there is a voice in the back of your head saying you are going to fail.
There's that voice in the man's head, whether you are entry level of where you're the CEO of a Fortune five hundred company, there is this little voice inside of your head saying you're going to fail. What's going to keep you from failing being in control. So there's that. So a Fortune five hundred ceo, he is afraid of failing and his coping mechanism. Let me intimidate, let me control, because the more control I have, the less likely it
is I'm going to fail. But keep in mind that there is a scared little boy or scared little girl underneath that bullying facade. So I'll let John talk more about narcissism. I want people to understand that.
Yeah, so I think the I think Jen, this is a great topic to help us get into everything we're going to talk about. So this shows my approach a little bit. Is first of all, you define the word. So what is narcissism. If you look up the definition of narcissism, it's all effects. It's people who and it describes behaviors, and then it says that it's either they don't know if it's from nature or nurture, and is no way to fix it. I will tell you that's
not the true definition of narcissism. And again, that first episode we did, we talked about what we call step one is your uniqueness, who you are, what your mind is, and then we talked about the thought processes. So I'm going to reference that here to understand and if anybody really wants to get into the gory details and go back to the previous episode. So, what a narcissist is. It's a person who has wired their brain to be happy at the expense of other people. So really that's
what and that explains all the behaviors you see. But they have wired their brain to that disregulation thought process and so their brain now is I am only happy when I am controlling you or making something bad happen. And you'll see it in a narcissist when they yell at you and then they smile. I'll watch people. That's how I know it is a narcissist is I'll watch somebody complain and then I'll see the smile at the
end because they're getting these happiness chemicals. So if the definition is somebody who's getting pleasure out of controlling somebody. All those effects make sense from there. So now the question is is how do we approach this person and how do we handle, you know, dealing with their interacting with this person. And this gets to the unconscious confrontation.
So then the last episode we talked about this. Ten percent of your brain is your conscious brain, it's where you imagine, it's where you remember, you're in direct control of this. Ninety percent of your brain is your unconscious brain. It's where all your behavior and all your energy is. When really that's the part of this model that people are missing. Everybody thinks everything is conscious, and the thing
is is really your energy is unconscious. So if you think about it, in that narcissists brain, ninety percent of their brain is the majority of the brain is driving their energy, and they consciously have taught their unconscious that they want to enjoy being mean to people and bullying people.
The thing is is they are feasting on low self esteem people. So self esteem is confidence in your uniqueness. So we talked about the intangible drivers. So when you understand who you are and and then you get confidence in it, then what happens is is you are driven by being more yourself. If you're low self esteem, you don't know who you are or you don't have confidence in who you are, and so all you can go
by is appearance. So if you look at what a narcissist does, they sit there and tell you they're trying to control you or intimidate you by appearance, the way you look. So they'll say, really, I wouldn't wear something like that, And it's what they're doing, is they're trying to control you by you being worried about how you look.
Now, if you have high self esteem, the narciss isn't going to affect you. But if you low self esteem, it is like a virus. They a narcissist makes narcissists, right, I.
Mean you're going to say, I was going to say, it's kind of like a cancerous thing that spreads because it's and I can speak on this too because I was married to a narcissist before. And it's always personal attacks and something about you that they do to destroy your confidence and to harm you. And it's it's not just appearance, it's your sense of humor, it's your you know, the way you look too, skinny, too fat, to this, to that, whatever it is, like everything about you seems to irritate them.
Right, So that you nailed it. So the thing is is that, first of all, if people knew their uniqueness and grew in it, they would be inoculated against narcissism, right, But how many people know that? They don't know it. So the reason narcissism is growing is people don't know who they are, and people are infecting other people. So the first thing that I teach people is the sentence you want to say to a narcissist is I'm sorry you feel that way. So that's how you stop them
dead in their tracks. So if you ever see me on LinkedIn or on Facebook or someplace or Instagram and somebody's saying stuff to me and I say I'm sorry you feel that way, I'm trying to find out if they're a narcissist. So the reason that works, and we're gonna this is starting us into the unconscious confrontation. I'm sorry you feel that way, So I'm saying that I feel bad that you feel a certain way. I'm putting
it back on you. Now if you attack, if you attack me, you're unconscious is going to go, why are you attacking them for for something that looks good? I'm having compassion towards you, so they can't they can't do that. So with the way your unconscious works is if you go to say something, and if you go to say something against what somebody is saying and they repeated what you said because I'm saying you felt that way, if you go to attack it, you're unconscious will will slam you,
like just hit you in the moment. So if you ever see, if you notice people, if someone has to start a sentence three times, what they're doing is they're trying to get around their unconscious brain. So whenever someone starts a sentence more than twice, I'll point to someone like the EDGs in the room, I'll say third time, and what I'm saying is listen very carefully because this person is trying to say something. They're trying to say something directly at you, and every time they make the step,
they're unconscious. Ruts can't say that. You can't say that. Now I'm really interested because I want to know what are all the things you had to qualify to say what you wanted to say? Because if I take the qualifiers out. I know you're guilty of that behavior. This is the one of the ways I read people. So when you see someone start a sentence three times, that's literally they're unc just stepping in and spanking them right
in the moment. Because if I say something and you repeat back to me what I say and I want to negate that, I can't negate what I said, my unconscious will hit me. So that's the trick in that sentence, I'm sorry you feel that way. Half of that sentence is something you already stated or showed. You can't reject it. So what I get from people is is, well, you shouldn't feel sorry. I didn't ask you feel sorry, and
I'm like, that's fine. I know a guy who said this to a pastor was a narcissist, and the third time he said I'm sorry you feel that way, he goes, stop staying that and my friend goes, i'm sorry you feel that way. So that's the first the global like sentence. I tell people to stop the bleeding and to hold a narcissist at bay. That's the first thing you say to stop.
Yeah, and you know, I'm glad that you brought up the social media thing, because that is such a problem these days, and people get so wrapped up and butt hurt and the way that people respond on a post or something, you know, whatever they say back to you, you know, and I people are like, well, how do
you control that? And I'm like, my personal thing that I learned a long time ago, is you don't engage with toxic behavior, right, and so if somebody attacks me or says something nasty, I say something positive back and they stop. It never fails.
Okay, So you do engage, because I'm going to say, absolved, there's four ways address a problem and if you ignore it, and I can tell another story about that, but you do engage, and then you just gave the answer. So let me show you why what you're doing works. This is this is leading right into the unconscious confrontation. So what's happening is is and you kind of if you if people have to close their eyes watching this to imagine this. But in the in the narcissist person's brain,
there's a conscious brain and an unconscious brain. And we all use our conscious brain and we can access it, but we cannot directly access our unconscious. We we know what's in there in response to stuff we do, but our unconscious wants to know what we're thinking and what we're feeling. That's why journaling helps, or sharing with another person, it doesn't even matter if another person's there. You can pretend someone's there, but you should.
You can talk to yourself, is what he's saying, because he's talking to me, so he knows I do that well.
Because that's one of the healthiest things because you're talking to your unconscious brain. So your unconscious brain is one, what do you think in janet? What are you thinking? And it's increasing your internal tension. And if you talk out loud, your unconscious goes that's what I wanted to hear, and now it gives you good chemicals. That's why when we share with a friend, we feel better. But if the friend didn't have to be there, so you journal,
that's your unconscious sees that you talk out loud. Your unconscious sees that. So if you really understand how your brain works, you're going to understand that what you're doing is you are a minder soul. Then you are trying to reach your unconscious through your conscious brain. That's what you're really doing. So this is the war everybody has inside their brain. I actually look at people like they're a marriage, Like, there's your spouses are your conscious and unconscious.
So what I want to do with an unconscious confrontation is I want to get your conscious brain to say something that's going to set your unconscious off. So what you just did. So here's what's going on. The internal dialogue in a narcissist's brain is I take a shot at you online and again online. All this stuff is bullying and on LinkedIn. There are people who will hot link me to arguments because I can come and shut them down insightly, and I'm gonna show you how I
do it, but you're already doing it. So what happens is is that they're saying, I wrote something mean to Janet and Janet wrote something mean back. Well, I'm justified in being mad at Janet, and unconscious brain, you better let me stay justified in being mad because that's really
why the energy is so I get to keep doing that. Well, the argument I've made inside my head is unconscious brain energize me to be mean to Janet because she's being mean to me, and the unconscious brain goes, oh, so if Janet was nice to you, you wouldn't be mean to her, right of course, But no one's ever not going to be mean to nice to me because I'm going to be mean. So he means to you. When
you're nice, he has to respond nicely. If he doesn't respond nicely, then his unconscious brain goes, wait a minute. You made this deal that you were going to be nice to the nice people. That's why I let you be mean to the mean people. But you're not being nice to the nice person. So I'm losing. I'm gotting out all your energy. And that person who loses all her energy and that's why you never hear from him. And I have the story I tell about this nurse I knew who had a who was training and this
narcissistic nurse trainer was just ripping her. And I told this nurse I said, yeah, I said thank her, even though she's saying, you know all this stuff about you, just go thank you. I appreciate you doing this. She had better be nice to you or she can lose all energy. She thanked her really nice attitude. The nurse didn't say anything nice back, and the nurse spent three days walking around with no energy. And I told this nurse.
I said, she needs to come back and basically confess and repent, admit to you that what she said was wrong in order to get her energy back, or she's going to keep losing it. The third day, she came back and said, Hey, I'm sorry I act that way. I you know, I'm glad you appreciated that. She got her energy back. The next day, she took another shot at her. She thanked her. She lost all her energy.
And I told this nurse, I said, what she needs to do is bess, repent to you, and then never bully you again, bully everybody else because you don't know how to play the narcissist game. And so people hear this advice and they're like, I'm not going to be nice and narcisst then you're going to become a narcissist what you were already doing. And you're a very intuitive person. Janet, we've already talked about that in the last episode. You
had the right answer. Now, why you did that, I'd love to hear why you did that.
I honestly think it was because, like I said, I was married to somebody like that for so long and when they get a reaction out of you that they want write that negative reaction where you storm off or whatever the case may be, it like feeds them yes, right, and they continue their behavior and it escalates like up multiple levels. And so I started going, you are absolutely correct, thank you so much for pointing that out. And it
made him stop doing it. And so when you said earlier, like people send you chats and you get in and you can shut it down. I worked for a big podcast not too long ago, and they had a big chat group going on or whatever. I was a chat moderator because anytime I would even so much as pop in the chat, they would stop, like all the negative behavior and all the you know, name colin and slur slinging and all the stuff. Just my presence in there would make people stop and they wouldn't do it anymore.
And so I think it was just by trial and error all those years. And finally I'm like, I'm so confident in who I am and comfortable and who I am that it doesn't matter what somebody says about me, you know, or attacking my character any of that stuff. It bounces right off me. Like I got a bubble protection around me.
That's what yeah made me.
It made me grow a lot being in that situation.
Right, It grew your self esteem. And now you're at the stage where I say you dissolved the problem because they can't. You don't have to do anything. I can keep doing what they're doing. You don't have to respond directly to it because your self esteem is high enough. And that's ultimately what I try to do. I try to grow people's self esteem where they're immune to it,
and that's that's kind of process. The thing for me is I coached people in you know, executive coaching for like fifteen years, and then I got into the school system and I brought all the stuff I had to help the teachers and help the students because I'm really passionate about education, and everything I knew about bullying did not work in the schools because these kids are a level bulliers.
Oh yeah, they're amazing.
So it took me about nine months and I improved my program. I helped these kids, you know, elementary school kids, middle school, high school handle bullying so well that when I went back into corporate America to executive coach people, I became undefeated. Right now, I know I can help any executive deal with any bullying because I have a
program that works at the worst bullying. The problem is is I help executives like they'll get They get bullied by the c suite so bad, it's unbelievable what's going on in corporate America. And I help these people unconsciously confront the c suite so that the c suite doesn't bully them anymore. They bully everybody else, and that doesn't turn into more business because these executives go, Okay, great, I'm not going to tell anybody about you, John, because
you're my secret weapon. So it never whenever I help people, it never results in them going, hey, you should come in and help all these people. No, no, no, no, no, no. You're my guy, and no one else knows about this. So I do a lot of this, you know, one off executive coaching to help deal with bullies in the c suite.
Do you think that some businesses like the Chaos and turbolail.
It's a strategy. So that's literally a strategy and edgub I tell you with Rome and everything. But what happens is is if you get the people, if you're number one and you get everybody fighting, they never can form a you know, any sort of collaboration overtake you. So it's literally a strategy to keep the layer below you fighting so that you keep your job and nobody can never you know, form an alliance and overtake you.
Right, Yeah, it's it's something that happens. We see it socially. You know, when when when whenever, if you've knows whenever there's a something going on in government that people don't want you to know about in government, what do they do? They start a crisis someplace else right working on it so that again they can never focus on what that person is doing. It really gets back to the fear
and control and all of that. I want to take a quick stay back before we get the unconscious confrontation because I and I think I can set it up for for for your listeners and set it up to for John to take over with that and that is this this is something I discovered, you know, dealing with the people in my comments section, because you know, I run a you know, faith based a Christian website and and you know, and and videos and blogs and podcasts
and all that good stuff. And I will occasionally actually quite frequently get atheists coming onto my site and any comments there, and they also say think like, you're stupid, you know that you're an idiot, there's no God, so forth and so on, and you know, I would respond, you know, trying to you know, understand, understand them and educate them, and it wouldn't work. It would just it would just go into what they call the comments death
spiral because they ask you a question. They'll say, well, if you can show me how there's a God, show me there's a God. Okay, Well here's some reasons. Okay, well, and then they'll ignore that and go to and go to another question. Well, then why does this happen? Well, it happened because of this, and instead of in not a knowledge, and that though just it becomes a death spiral. They never answer the question because I don't in their minds, what I'm thinking is, well, if I answer their question,
then they'll they'll understand. They don't want their questions answered. They want to feel justified in what they believe. So the truth is their war was not with me, or with Christianity or with God, was with their unconscious, unconscious mind. And I didn't understand that and when I did, it changed everything. And I have a dirty trick that I pull up and put on them. So here's the thing. Everyone, Your unconscious mind we talked about this last time, knows reality.
Your conscious mind is not your unconscious excuse me, is not moral. It doesn't know good or evil. It's facts and patterns. It sees reality. It cannot lie. Your unconscious cannot lie. Your conscious mind can all. We can lie in our conscious, but we cannot lie in our unconscious. So if you believe that there is no God, that there is no there is, that everything happened naturally, that you know there once upon a time there was nothing, nothing exploded, and.
Then I want to see how that happens by the way.
You can convince yourself with that consciously, But your unconscious says that's not true. That doesn't match up with reality. Something can't come from nothing. Order doesn't come from chaos. It goes the other way around chaos. You have to order and then chaos. So every atheist their unconscious mind knows that all the precepts that they believe is completely wrong. But as we talked about last time, you're unconscious is your friend. Your unconscious just wants you to match up
with reality, so it cant's little. It's always tapping you as an atheist, saying, you know that's not right. You know that one species doesn't come another species. You know the life can't come from non life. So you have two choices. You can either listen to your unconscious, which is ninety percent of your brain, and say, well, okay, put me in the right direction. Or you can fight against it. But again, you're fighting against a nine hundred
pound gorilla. You're here, You're fighting against ninety percent of your brain, and it's going to keep poking at you. Like if you remember the line from The Matrix when Morpheus confronted Neil for the first time and he says, there's something's wrong. You don't know what it is, but it's like a splinter in your mind driving you mad. That's them. They there's that splinter in their mind driving
them mad. So what do they do. They don't know that that thing that's making them angry is their unconscious. They think it's me. As a Christian, they think it's God. They think it's a church. So they go and they confront me because they think if they can defeat me or in an argument or a Christian in an argument. It's going to make them happy? Is that y'ad will tell you everything we do is to be happy. They just want to be happy. They want that scratch in
the back of their mind to go away. They want that itch, that splinter to stop. And they think, if I get into an argument with a Christian and I defeat them because I'm smarter than them or I'm a better debater, is going to I'll finally be happy. But what happens is, let's say they do confront a Believer and the believer maybe isn't very wise, and they and they just intimidate them, a bully them, and they conquer the Christian. They will be happy for about a couple
of minutes. Then the next thing you know, they're onto another Christian website. Because after they've beaten the Christian, they're unconscious still saying you know you're wrong, you know you're wrong, say, have got to keep going. So the dirty trick I pull on them is I tell them exactly what I just said. I said that your unconscious knows the truth and until you confront it, you will never be happy. The problem is that their unconscious was treating them like
they were innocent. They were, but now now that I've said that to them, now they're unconscious knows that they know who the right really is. So now the unconscious is going to ramp up even more on them, and they're going to be even more miserable because now they know the truth. Now they don't they can't plead innocent to their unconscious. Now that unconscious says, wait a minute, you know that it's you and versus me, and now and you're still doing this wrong thing. You're still going
after other people in this belief system. So the whole point of that of that example is to say that when you're dealing with a bully, the bully's problem is not with you. The bullies' problems with themselves. They are not fighting you, they're fighting their own conscious. So that, like you just said, if they intimidate you, tell you you're wrong, you're ugly, you're you're stupid, they'll get that
smile like John talked about for a minute. But what happens next They have to bully again because that happiness that they thought they were getting is not sustainable because they're not dealing with the true problem and the true problem is not you or anyone else they're managing. It's there, it's in their own mind.
They're all unconscious.
So that's why an unconscious confrontation is so powerful, because you're getting you by doing that and getting through the root of the problem, and they're not. They're just dealing with them on the surface. They're dealing with effects, but the cause is the unconscious.
Can I say too that I think that little, you know, the fight between the conscious and the unconscious, I think that happens for a lot of people too, when they're trying to figure out like what their strengths are, what
their purposes, you know whatever. And there's so many people that have that like internal struggle and internal disagreement because you got that little voice in the back of your head going, you know what you are really great at, you know, finances or analytical stuff, or you're really good at helping people or whatever, and you're fighting against it consciously because you're like, oh, I don't want to listen
to that, I don't want to do that. I don't I'm not interested in like using my skills to help somebody else whatever. And so you're just constantly like at war inside yourself because you're not listening to the messages that you're being given. I like to say that it's God in my brain to tell me when i'm, you know, fighting against His will and his way.
Well, as a Christian, you're right, you have access to that, okay, But if you're not a Christian, you don't have access to that. So you're actually right about that. But so you've seen the symbol like when people put two hands together, like they'll say namaste or whatever like this, what that really symbolizes is both halves of your brain conscious and unconscious. And so if you think about it, everybody is feeling tension when they're unconscious and conscious are not in agreement.
Everybody's feeling peace or harmony when they're conscious and they're unconscious or in agreement. So the essence of counseling is you talk to a person they have some disagreement unconsciously consciously, and then if you can talk to them consciously to get them to align with their unconscious feel better. Right, if you talk to them in a way that puts distance between these two, you're gonna feel worse and unconscious confrontation puts a distance for the exact reason ed said,
so your unconscious assumes the best about you. It's like a puppy dog. It's gonna follow your commands. So what happens is it assumes the best. So even when someone's bullying somebody, the unconscious sits there and goes, well, they don't really mean to do that. They don't know they're doing that, and it may not be wrong, and they're probably okay with someone doing that to them. So I'm not gonna do anything to them. And people get really mad when I say that, and I'm like, they do
not know that. So my most famous example is we have this example happen. This is so I'm gonna teach one specific unconscious confrontation that the guy I teach with, Jonathan would say is the most power one, and the most powerful example was he was coaching a guy who used an unconscious confrontation to get his eleven year old daughter to share. She was not sharing. He used an unconscious confronation. She shared, and she was getting bullied by a boy at school, and so he taught her this
response and she used it. So the bully came up, this boy and bullied her, and she said to the boy, would it be okay if I did this to you. So what she's saying now is she's doing everything Ed said. The heart of the issue is this, the bully's unconscious thinks the best about him. And now what she did was she asked a question that the person's conscious in front of their unconscious to remove that mercy that person's
experience of the unconscious. Because if this person says, yeah, it's okay if you did that to me, then every time he ever got mad that someone did that to him, because his unconscious has a record of all that, he's gonna get these internal spankings. If he says no, then the unconscious goes, wait a minute, everything you ever did to somebody, you're gonna get spankings for. So they're not going to answer. And the key is is to change the subject or walk away because the unconscious is sitting
there waiting for the conscious answer. If you turn around and go, well it's not fine and you're a bad person, they're unconscious, Oh, you're a bad person. And so it's like you set a bomb and then you diffused it. So I talk about when she sits there and says, would it be okay if I did that? To you, he doesn't say anything. She walks away, and he reported her for bullying him. Now why because when she walked away and he would answer it, his unconscious smacked him
so hard it felt like he got bullied. And then I'll how did she bully you? I asked him this question. It doesn't make any sense, but I felt this tremendous bulliyeing that was your own unconscious. So he removed the mercy that this person's unconscious. So that's what I do online, is these people are taking these shots, and what I do is I ask a question that removes their unconscious mercy towards them, and now they got to deal with
with their unconscious. And it's a real simple question, like would it be okay if I did that to you? Would it be okay if they did that to you? Would it be okay if I did that to your kid? I did that to a coach once. You know, there was a coach who was just beating my son, and I said, do you think you are helping him? There isn't a massive unconscious confrontation because if you say no, you're unconscious to go, well, then you're guilty. So of course he goes, yes, I am okay, do you think
football is more important than life? Well? No, I said, that's great. Then when your daughter turns sixteen, I'm going to walk up to and scream at her about stuff in life because I'm going to be helping her.
He not like that, what what.
You bully my son? The way you're teaching them football, I should be able to teach your daughter to If that's helping my son, then I can help your daughter the same way. You know.
That made me think about like a lot of the schools that have a zero tolerance policy for bullying, and so the person that is on the receiving end of the bullying will often get expelled with the bully right,
and the school in turn bullies the students doubly. And I'm like, I'm like, okay, so this kid pushed my kid like down the stairs, and my kid got hurt and expelled because they got shoved down the stairs by someone else, and then you expel them both, and so you punish them both for something that they were an innocent part in. And I'm like, so you're being a bully too, because.
You just want you now And I'm talking to the administrator you just want to make your life easy. And you're right, you double bullied. And so this kind of brings up a side topic. So I say, there's well, there's a guy, doctor Russell A. Koff, who says there's four ways to approach a problem. So the first way is absolved. Ignore it. Maybe it'll go away, won't. So somebody bullies somebody, I ignore it as a teacher that that's not going away. Yeah, there's resolve, and resolve is
to treat effects. So that's punish and reward. So if you use punish and reward to change behavior, you really treating someone like an animal. Right, there's so like Pavlovs dogs exactly. So there's solved, and that's treating the tangible causes. This is the whole procedure of like we're going to put the bully through this whole process to retrain them. And the thing is is, I'm a chemist and chemical engineer. Stave works great for inanimate objects. You when you solve a problem on a car, it.
Works, right, But here's hopefully here's hopefully right.
It's possible. Here's the issue in the world. So this is this is why the world is getting worse every time you solve a problem involving people, you create three more problems, and the overall stress of your solution is worse than than from the original problem. So what we're doing is humans, is we're solving people problems and making three more problems and solving those that are making nine more and solved more, making twenty seven more. So like, what
are we supposed to do? John, You're supposed to dissolve problems, and dissolve is to treat the intangible cause. So the example you just gave made this problem worse, it's really resolved. And the example that I love to talk about is Solomon. So in the Bible, Solomon asked God for wisdom to rule his people, and God says, you know what you could ask for, riches, long life, You could ask for all this stuff. You ask for wisdom to help these people.
So I'm gonna give you all these effects, but I'm gonna give you this cause, the very and that cause is called Mada. God gives him Mada m A d a, And it's godly wisdom, it's it's flow, it's godly wisdom. So the very next story is two women show up with one baby and they say this is my baby. No, the other one says, this is my baby. So Solomon could have absolved, ignore it, go away. He could have resolved, which is what you're talking about. He could have killed
them both. There, problem solved. That's what that that zero to Holarts policy solve is. He could do what we do, which is a trial interview all these people, interview all these people, get all the facts together, and say the baby is this woman's baby? Now, how good are we at trials?
Not?
And think about what could all happen there. Some people probably got coursed. We could give a baby paid off. We give the baby the wrong person. We find out years later, and you know they have a birthmark or something, or the one the one mom still trying out to get the other one, or this this group is trying to get this group. This is gonna make it three times worse. So what does Solomon do. He dissolves. He goes, cut the baby in half and give half to half
each woman. And the one woman goes, great, do it, and the other woman goes, don't give the baby there. And Solomon goes, now I know for sure whose mom it is. And the last sentence of that chapter in kings is and all of Israel was amazed that Solomon had the wisdom of God. Meaning this, everybody went, Solomon's a smart guy. But that answer wasn't a human answer. Right. In the Bible, God never solved the problem with people.
God always dissolved the problem. If we want to make the world better, we should be dissolving problems, which comes from God intervening. You were talking about earlier, God intervening to you. As a Christian, you have the ability to dissolve. And what's happening is is it's counterintuitive. Dissolve is always counterintuitive.
The Bible always presents dissolve. And the issue is as we as humans yet bring ourselves to be counterintuitive, especially in groups, we're always going to go back to solve and resolve. So the world could be great if we dissolved that all anybody wants to do is solve and resolve. Right.
Well, just a little bit of clarification that that intangible cause, Like John said, dissolve means when you deal with the intangible cause. So the intangible cause was this one woman hated the other woman. That was more than I said. That was the intangible cause. So basically, what's some what was doing. The wisdom of God was, Okay, the intengible cause is one woman hates the other because obviously, if if you are trying to take someone else's baby, you
have a problem with that person. So let me let me put up a situation where the woman who is in the wrong would feel what would be happy? She'd be happy if you cut the baby and hald because that would hurt the other woman. So Slimon said, okay, which one of you wants to has the hurt in her heart? And that's what he that's what he dealt with now with the baby. The baby was was an effect. The cause was one woman wants to hurt the other woman.
So Solomon said, I want to provide an opportunity to hurt the hurt the real mother in the worst way possible. Right that when I got killing the child.
Right, and so to bring this full circle, the intangible driver is the intangible cause. So when I go into the schools, when you deal with the person this kid isn't focusing, I can solve it by doing all these focus exercises and all this stuff. When we can spend the next three weeks of focusing, or I could talk to the kid in his uniqueckness, and now he doesn't even deal with the focusing issue because now he's focused and he never has to address it. So that's why
the intangible drivers is so important. It's really the way to dissolve eighty percent of the issues we have with other people.
And I think what you said there hit the nail on the head, because people really just want to be heard, right. They want to feel like someone's listening, like they're a part of something.
They want to be happy.
Our society is so lazy and complacent at raising our kids, talking to our kids, teaching our kids things, you know, to speaking to your neighbor. We're we're terrible at being humans, right, And so when you.
Have that operation deplorable, aren't we? Yes?
We are. When you have that opportunity to let somebody be vulnerable enough to share something with you, things go away on their own. People get but hurt and angry and irritated and whatnot when they feel like how they feel doesn't matter, or what they say or think doesn't matter. And so eliminating those barriers in communication helps tremendously.
I completely agree, And I think the thing is is that we have gotten further and further away from understanding what it is to be human, and everything we're being taught is that we're robots. And this is ultimately we knew how to engage our unconscious brain, which is ninety percent of our brain. We now get all this information that treats us like we're only conscious brain. Psychology believes
we're only conscious brain. And anybody, when anybody tells me their approach to helping somebody within three questions, I can show them, your model is where a conscious brain. Your model is where a robot your model, and it makes people worse. The reason why mental health and all the stuff that's getting worse is we're getting better and better at treating people like robots and not human.
One hundred percent. I have a I just did a show yesterday on mental health, and the mental health community makes me shudder these days because instead of you know, getting to the root cause and why you feel the way that you feel, and you know what's causing your behavior and things like that, it's codifying and putting their shitty behavior on a pedestal, right, and it's like, oh, well, it's okay for you to act this way because you are depressed or you have oppositional defiant disorder, or you
are this label and certain label here, And so they're giving them an excuse and a crutch to carry with them every day throughout life to explain away their bad behavior without ever solving the issue.
And that's not.
Solving to solving.
That's treating people like a robot. Yes, wiring this way, We're not gonna be able to change the wiring. Let's try to cope with with the wiring you have. That's blatantly what that's treating. Now, when I you said if the mental health people make you shudder, I completely agree with that. And what I do again my process, what's your definition of mental health? So I've asked that and ninety five percent of people will not answer that question.
And that's the thing is is I'll ask it to people who are who all these.
Who are mental health professionals.
Yeah, and experts, you know. Tony Robbins twice posted on LinkedIn about mental health. Both times I wrote to his post, what's your definition of mental health? And both times he took down the post. So the thing is is that the definition of mental health according to the World Health Organization and all these other places is not having a bad thought or feeling.
Which is not It goes against human nature.
I was just gonna say, Janet, do you ever have a bad thought or feeling?
Of course, absolutely, I'm human.
We all do. So two things there. Number one is is that definition is again robot. Second of all, if that's your goal, do you think it can ever be successful at it well?
And making it so broad and so vague like that, right, you can literally die diagnose every person on the planet as having a mental health disorder that they can in turn treat and rope you into the pharmac system.
Right, So with that definition, you can never make progress. It's unbelievable. The definition of mental health, and this goes back to the last episode. We said there's four thought processes. The worst one is dysregulation. Then there's regulation, which is like the addictive habitual. Then there's self regulation, which is focused, and then we flow over to this ten thought process. The definition of mental health ought to be the ability to repair your thought process to get your back to
self regulation. So C. S. Lewis said, a live body is not one that never gets hurt, it's one that's able to repair itself. Mental health is I am going to experience bad thoughts and bad feelings, but I can repair myself. I help people achieve that. So I am very successu full with mental health helping people with it because I help people repair their own thought process.
One hundred and there needs to be more of that because and I'm gonna bang on them until they stop doing this. But the mental health community is all about and now it's it's moved in a disturbing trend where, like I said, they're codifying behaviors and uplifting behaviors by giving people a crutch. But also the people who claim to be therapists are inserting their own personal beliefs and values into that patient. Right, well, I think I'm pretty
sure your transgender. I'm pretty sure you're you know x y Z. I'm pretty sure that you believe in, you know, whatever it is, because that is the therapist belief system that they are now instilling in their patients, and that has no place in therapy like at ever.
Right So, man, I'm gonna forget the word. Maybe it'll come to me as I explain this. But I have worked with several psychologists, but only one has been willing to share with people that they worked with me and when when this psychologist, doctor Eleanor Harper, she actually wrote the opening to The Intangible You, which is our book about the intangible drivers. When she learned this information, she said that that this would solve what you're talking about.
So there's a there's a term in psychology that's it's it's I am putting my thoughts and feelings on you, and I'm allowing your thoughts and feelings to affect me and I and it's protect something. It's not projecting, but it's something encounter something. I'm forgetting that. It's like mirroring, right, But there's a there's a term for both ways, and everybody knows that that's that happens. So they write in these books like this much information to stop transference transference
encounter transference is what it's called. And so they write like this, and she goes, intangible drivers would make that a page because what happens is your compassion server. So if I say something, it's really easy for you, Janet to go, wait a minute, I'm feeling this right now, right? Is John feeling that?
Or am I feeling what John's feeling?
Based Well, I'm compassion server. That sounds like a teacher thing. That's John's feelings, and so you're able to not allow that transference because then the counter transference is, like you said, you go the other way. And when you understand who I am as a human and you understand who you are as a counselor as a human, then it settles that transfer into account of transfers. But without that, that is a big, humongous issue. I didn't know exist until
she taught it to me. That's a big issue in counseling. And so what does it make you have to do? Robot? Robot? I don't have any uniqueness. You don't have any uniqueness. Tell me your issues in a logical way, and I will solve them in a logical way. And it doesn't matter if I talk to you Janet or Ed, even though you two have two different uniquenesses. I am going
to solve your problems the same way. I get in trouble with a woman who runs a counseling service up in Wisconsin, and she said, John, this is all we do. We ask people tell me all your issues, and we listen them all out, and then we say which ones of these do you want to keep? And which one do you want to leave by the curb? And it's like it didn't matter who the person was. It's just a process. This is the process for counseling. You're a computer,
you're a robot. You have this information in your memory. Let's dump your memory. Dump, Let's figure out which things you want to keep, what things you want to go. I did my job, I'm awesome.
Well and see that. That is the whole problem with our whole entire medical approach to things. We are all unique, we are all very different, our makeup is very different, and one thing does not cure everyone's problem, whether it's mental health, whether it's physical health. That it's not a canned answer or response that's going to help anybody else.
You know, one thing, one thing you brought up, and it goes back into the you know, when you solve a problem, you created three more. You talk about the whole transgender thing, and this is people trying to be nice. They're saying, okay, well, you you have multiple genders. You don't know you know, you know you're you're a male, you believe you want to be a female, or vice versa, and so okay, well, what we'll do is we'll have everybody be nice to them and they can use exactine
whatever bathroom they want. Isn't that the nice thing to do? But what they do they then have created three more problems. Now you have well, wait a minute, I don't want a biological man going into the same restroom as my daughter, my little girl.
That's a problem.
I don't want this man who has, you know, a musculature of a male in a boxing ring with a female boxer. So you've created a bunch of problem. But it was done not to be mean, or you weren't. It's the opposite.
You were trying.
People were trying to solve this problem by saying transgender people have it rough. Let's be nicer to them, and let's give them these certain rights and rules. But again it results in, you know, multiple more problems because they're not getting again down to the actual intangible causes.
Right.
But what we do is it's also a form of bullying because now if you object to say, hey, you know I have a problem man being in the bathroom with my with my little girl, you're evil, you're a bigot, you're transphobic.
That's so what do you want?
I don't want to be that way.
So what do they've intimidated you. They've intimidated you, And again we're back to the robot thing. It goes back to this idea. Aristotle said, if you know to do right, you'll do right. So that's what these people believe is is, hey, if you know the right thing to do, you'll do it. And I always say to people, so if I tell you the right way to eat and the right way to exercise, you change your behavior tomorrow right now. So then so then they point that out the Aristotle and
he goes, well, it's a weakness of the will. Well, it's it's a bad model. We're not robots and we're going to do it's logically right. We have these uniquenesses and like you said, in the medical field, if we were to start with us having a uniqueness and then us having an unconscious brain, why are there so many
side effects? And they're so differ with uniqueness. Your body is gonna talk to you a certain way if it doesn't think you should be taking this thing, and it's gonna a body's gonna talk to tim a different way, and my body's gonna talk a different way, And there is nothing physically connected between taking this pill and having
this side effect it. Physically you can't draw the connection, but unconsciously you can my unconsciously to me, it doesn't like this by giving me hives, right, give it does something different. That's that's the part that we just look at people like their robots or animals, and that's what medicine has done, and we missed out on it. Whereas you've talked about this holistic approach and I talk about systems. We are not a piece this or that. There's a
whole system. And so that's why to really understand the whole person is really how you truly help people. And that first step is the uniqueness. But there's so many other things too, their history, the trauma they've been through, how they programmed their unconscious brain. There's all these other things. But that's why I was really interested when Ed you know, told me about you and then we got talking. It's like, yes,
that is to be holistic. It's a system. It's not You're not a robot, and I'm going to change this part in you and everything's fine.
It's like a string of Christmas lights, right, you change that one bulb and everything else lights up. But that's why I love having conversations like this, because so many people are struggling. They feel lost, they don't know, you know. And again going back to somebody going into a therapy office and sitting on a couch and the therapist says, tell me what's wrong with you? And that patient, more times than not, has no idea why they fail the
way they feel. They don't know why they're depressed. They don't know why they cry all the time. They can't articulate into words what it is. There's just something inside of them that makes them have all these emotions. And so how do you get a patient like that to be vulnerable, to open up and tell you when the person is telling you they don't know what's causing it.
Amazing, amazing. That's exactly what's going on in mental health right. So here's the thing is the people who are going to counselors tend to be compassion people like yourself. They have all these emotions, they're overwhelmed and they need to share, but they feel guilty sharing their problems with people. If I pay someone to listen, then I don't feel guilty.
So what I learned from the psychologist is is most of the people who are in long term and counseling are compassion people who are literally paying someone till they don't feel so they don't feel guilty sharing now the first and I just put this post up on LinkedIn today and Facebook and Instagram, but I will share this my first when I first walk into a classroom, so I'm dealing with kids, and I don't want these kids,
you know, to to hurt themselves, to injure themselves. And that's that's my first thing I want to I want to help. I tell this story. I walk into a classroom and I say, when you feel tension, your body produces oxytocin in response to attention. Do you think that makes you feel more tension, less tension, or the same amount of tension? And the kids always say less tension, and I always say, it makes you feel more at tension. Why does your body make you feel more tension when
you experience tension. It's doing that to you to do the thing that would release the tension, and that is to share. So if you don't share, then your body's gonna ramp up the tension. And if you don't share, it's gonna ramp it up more, and then you double down and it's gonna really ramp it up, and then you're gonna decide, I got no way out of this except one way. This is not good. But the sooner you share, the sooner you're gonna feel that your own
body's gonna release it. And if you practice sharing right away, your body doesn't even have to stress you anymore. So the amount of stress you experience is in your control. So ultimately, we should have friends and we should share. And I saw a status is like ten years ago, and I know it's worse now with COVID, but ten years ago it said more than fifty percent of people have zero people they can share with or be vulnerable, and another twenty five percent of people have one person.
So seventy five percent of people have zero or one person they can share with.
And I would say that's higher now because when the whole COVID thing hit, a lot of people lost friends, family, whatever, because of beliefs.
Right right, And good point is because you're used to self isolating, right.
Good point. So things are worse now because people have less people to share. And the number one way to relieve that tension that everybody's feeling is to share. So you either pay a counselor so you don't feel guilty sharing, or you share with somebody and they don't know how to handle your sharing and they make it worse. Right, then you learn I can't share with anybody, and so now we've forgotten how to be human.
Well and one hundred percent to that. And this may sound stupid, but people literally will share with me all the time. Even if I'm at the grocery store, I don't know them, they will come up and they will just whatever needs to come out. I'm that person and I love being that person for people. And people are always say why don't you charge for that? Why don't you charge for your time? Because that is not my purpose. My purpose is to be that person that can listen
to somebody being vulnerable. They can say thank you, I feel so much better, and then they can go on with their day and be happy.
Keep keep this in mind, Jen, is something that that you John was saying early on. One of the reasons that that releases the tension is because you're unconscious, doesn't know what you're thinking until you say it out loud, right, So when you talk, so when that person talks to you or to trift there, but there anyone else there. Unconscious is releasing tensions. Say okay, now I finally know what you're thinking. And I want to back up to something you said a few minutes ago. Like someone will
go to a therapist and they don't know why they're depressed. Well, that depression comes from their unconscious mind. Non conscious mind does not Your unconscious does not speak to you in words. It speaks to you in feelings. So you just feel all I know is I feel like I want to go be asleep all the time. I just want to just not do anythings. That's your unconscious. Uh, that's where the depression is coming from. So how do you how
do you figure it out? Well, this is something that actually John taught me that you have to basically play charades with your unconscious or horrifully, have someone with you who understands and can play your raise with you. And I'll say, Okay, what's what's got you down?
I don't know?
Okay, Well is it home or work?
It's work? Okay.
At work, is it a coworker or your boss? It's a boss. And every time you give the right answer, you're you're unconscious gives you positive feelings, so you're coming out of that. So it's my boss, okay?
Is it?
Your boss? Is your boss bullying you or to giving you too much? They give me too much to do? Okay, So now you're getting to the root of it. Your reason you're us it's because you feel overworked, and your conscious says, yes, that's why I'm dragging you down, because you're overworked and you need to ask your boss for a break.
You didn't know that.
All you know is you feel down. But by playing that charades game with someone and they just keep going, they start broad and narrow it down home or work work boss or co worker boss, you know, bullying or
too much work? That is that is That is a technique that you and another person can use playing charades with your unconscious mind to really figure out why you're depressed, why you're down, why you're feeling anxious and anxiety, because that's that's the only way your unconscious communicates with you. I feel nervous, I feel anxious, I feel down. But it doesn't tell you that you're feeling down because you feel overworked and you need to ask for a vacation.
It can't take.
You have to figure that out yourself.
Yah. So your unconscious it responds with energy juicing you or draining you. So when you throw those answers, it doesn't. I want to go back into what you're talking about, going to the store, to your compassion server. You want to know, oh, what other people are feeling, and you want to bear their pain. There's a couple of things going on here. Number one, it's unconscious, right, So our
unconscious is communicating through our facial expressions. So I will tell married couples, I'll ask them how often do you sit face to face with your spouse? And it's not a lot of time. And I say, now, if you like each other, don't do this if you don't like each other, But if you like each other, spend fifteen
minutes sitting face to face. Because what happens when you sit face to face with someone you like is while you're talking about the weather or whatever, your unconscious goes, I really like you, and this conscious goes, I really like you, And it's doing the work for you. Right you're walking through that store, you are set a message through your face that hey, I'm a safe person, I can I can bear pain. People look around and they go.
Yep, they do man.
And you probably have examples of people walking by other people to talk to you and you don't even know you. All the time, their unconscious is going that person I've already communicated and face to face with them, that person will bear your pain. Now. The second thing you're doing is you you know how to listen to people's story. And what I say is is mirror a less negative emotion.
Absolutely all you have to do.
Excuse me, when someone says something to you and shares you don't go, well, why what you expect to happen?
No?
No, ever, there are people out there that's how they Why are you bothering me with this? It's like I just shared with you. When you share, when someone shares their story with you, they're letting you become a part of their brain because this experience now is attached to the story in their brain, and the emotion's either going to get better or worse if you talk to them in a terrible fashion. And that's what we do on
the internet. It's like, my emotion now has gotten worse, and so but when they talk to you, you're like, wow, sorry that happened you that wasn't your fault? You shouldn't. You're saying something that when they put that emotion, that that event back in their brain with what they shared
with you, you made that emotion less negative. Right, now gets easier for them to share versus you think about women who get assaulted and the first person they tell is like their mom, and their mom goes what you expect you dress like that, they now feel worse about the assault than just the assault. They're less likely to share it with anybody. So all these me too's where they go, how can you waited seventeen years to share?
I'll tell you why, because the first two or three times they shared seventeen years ago, they got yelled at, they got a more negative emotion, and now it's less likely they're ever going to share them.
Right.
And it's not just you know, sometimes the people that will bully you in situations like that, the worst are family members, and then authorities do it too. Well, you must have done something to deserve it. You must have been drinking, you must have blah blah blah. Telehealthcare professional, well did you ever bother to do a rape kit?
You know?
And it's this long line of people that have such a negative attitude about them because of what you were trying to share. And I think going back to what you said about the eye contact with the couples, not just with your partner, but with your children as well, which is so important because we oftentimes use like devices as babysitters, right, and we don't have those face to face interactions or exchanges with our kids or you know,
with our partners or whatever. So we're so used to screen time now that you don't have that personal time, that personal connection, and then people wonder why their relationships with their spouse or their children are damaged.
Right. And the first step that I take, and I teach this to other people and I watch other people, the first step I take when I deal with a kid is I get down to their level so that they are eye to eye. Same amazing how many adults talk to kids. And if you remember being a kid.
This is it creates fear inside of them. And so that was like my favorite thing when I was still practicing nursing, was like the kids would always be drowned to me because I would literally sit down on the step of like you know, a doctor's bed always has that pull out step I would sit down and sit in front of them and look at them, and I talk to them about you know, cartoons or whatever, and you build that trust and that rapport because number one,
you're looking at them right, You're on their level. You're not towering over them, so you're no longer scary. And then I could do you know, whatever test or stuff that I needed to do because they trusted me enough and they weren't fearful.
So have you ever seen the TV show Lie to Me?
I'm not sure.
It was on like fifteen years ago. So are you family with the book blinked? Mm hmm, blink. So in that book there's a chapter on this guy. I'm trying to remember what his name is. But in the they did this TV show Lie to Me based off basically off that chapter, and the guy's name was Lightman in the TV show and in the in the pilot, it's a it's a great little scene in the pilot, but basically that entire show is about how this guy watches
your face for micro expressions. So what this means is is whenever you talk to somebody, they respond immediately with their their unconscious response. They make a facial expression and then within a fifth of a second, they rein it back in. So that fifth of a second is an expression, and it's so quick. It's called a micro expression. And I teach teachers and I teach other people how to
read people's micro expressions. So what you're doing is is that you're saying something and then people like, this is contempt. When you do this, you know, your nose up in your upper lip. And in the book, this guy figured out that he could predict which marriages were going to end. He videotaped couples and he would just have him talking and when one of those made that contempt face at their spouse, he's like, this marriage is get That person
actually hates that person. So in the TV show, in the pilot, the guy Lightman goes to the airport and he identifies this tsa woman who is like five times is good screening people out, And he goes, you're a natural. I teach people to do what you're doing. You recognize everything. And the reason she was a natural and this is this is what happens to every traumatized kid. They're natural
because a survival. But she tells the story basically, when my dad came home I needed to immediately assess this emotional state because it was bad he beat me, and it was good he would love me. So as soon as you walk in the door, I had to do a cold read and hide or go to them. And so when I go into the schools, all these kids who have had trauma and they have these issues, they all instantly read your face. So what happens is is I have a story of there was a girl in
this classroom. I always showed up at this classroom like two o'clock in the afternoon on Thursdays, and ten weeks in there's this girl in the classroom. She's never there because by noon she gets kicked out of school every day, and she happened to be there at two o'clock. And the teacher goes, I want your help. You know she's here, And so we go into this little room and the girls got her head down and I'm standing there and
he goes, is it okay with mister Lenhard's here? And I knew she was going to look up, She's gonna do a read. And what I teach people is what you're thinking is what comes out your face. You're always thinking, I'm a safe person. So the story you just told these kids, you get face to face, these kids look at your face and go, oh, you're a safe person. And I thought to myself, I'm a safe person. She looked up and she looked down. She goes, yeah, and
I knew she was reading that. If you ever take anybody into one of these self contained EBD rooms that don't want to be there, the kids take one look at that person's face, they read that they're afraid and it it's a feeding frenzy. They go after them and they just do that. And so that's the thing I've learned is is I sit there and do the I can help you. I'm not going to hurt you. These
kids look and then and they want to share. So that's that's the thing, is these kids are reading your face right away, and if they don't want to, if they don't want to talk to you, you're not a safe person.
Well, and and think about like how many people that you run across on a daily basis that we'll say, oh, if you ever need anything, I'm here, you can always call me. And then you can look at their face and be like, oh no, I wouldn't be like the last person that I would call and how many people are in our lives that are that are literally like that, that are very disingenuous in there in their words.
Yeah, So that's that's the thing that we're trying to you know, it's it's being human again, it's accounting for this person is unique. They have a story. I'm a safe place. You can tell me a story. Not Hey, you're a you're a car, you're a robot. Let me diagnose the part in you that's wrong, and then let me just tell you how to adjust to that part and then get moving on. I'll talk to the next person. That's That's essentially what we've lost. We've lost that ability to be human.
And I think that's a a huge problem. And like I said, even from you know, Infancy Toddler ears things like that, the loss of that intimacy and that human connection that parents have with their kids, I think it's creating a much bigger problem than what we see because we're too tired. I don't want to have to like put down my phone. I don't want to have to put down my work that I'm doing to deal with my child. You know whatever, We'll just let the school
handle it. We'll let we'll let their dad handle it when he comes home, you know. And it's like we put off the kids, and then we wonder why they're confused and why they have behavior issues.
And we really shouldn't. We shouldn't be confused about that. So that's I just want to work our way back to the unconscious confrontation because I want to give the other one. So we call it flipping the pronouns. Would it be okay if I did that to you? Would it be okay if they did that to you? My favorite unconscious confrontation is called the right question. So what happens is is we want to yell at somebody you're not listening to me. And when we make statements on people,
it makes everything worse right. And so what I like to say, and I used to when I was running a company and I was dealing with the customer you know, complaint, you know, in the customer interface. I used to teach this to the people taking these calls, is I would say, do you think it's right that? And then say the thing you want to say, Do you think it's right
that you're not listening to me? That's the question, and it is an unconscious confrontation because you're asking the person conscious brain in front of their unconscious do you think it's right that you're not listening to me? Now? It freezes them up. And what happens is is I've helped I especially do this with spouses. I'll take one of the spouses and I say, all you got to do is ask your spouse do you think it's right that?
And then what's the what's the issue you have? Do you think it's right that you're putting a cant on my side of the bed every night? O?
Well, no, because then they won't get any sleep.
Wow, jet it, You're way ahead. So here's what I say. If you have a great thought process, you'll answer you'll go no, or even if you say yes, or you don't answer it in the same day, you're going to feel that pain and you're gonna come back and you're gonna fix it the same day. Most people are next day what you just said. Most people the spouse that ask the question falls asleep. Yeah, their spouse does not sleep just what you said, And the next day they go, hey,
and I that's a good thought process. Past two days is a bad thought process. And the thing about being human is we have a conscience. Now, our heart is the thing that pushes back on us before we do something. So if I want to do something that's different than I've normally done and I feel this pushback, people say it's your conscience, it's not. It's your heart. Your heart has three ways to push back. Your heart has a
mini brain, and it's noticing patterns. And Jesus even said that heart's the last step before you do an action. So if you do it in your heart, you made a decision. Once you do something wrong, the first thing that gets you as your conscience. Your conscience sees what you did and then it says, hey, you shouldn't have done that. So if you think about how the human machine ought to work, we ought to try what you said with your first husband, I try different things. We
ought to try things. We ought to make mistakes, we ought to feel our conscience tell us that was wrong. We ought to repair it. That's what being a human is. But what we're told is don't ever make a mistake be a robot.
Well I make mistakes all the time, but I'm happy to say I also talk to myself a lot, and so those you know thoughts that are rolling around in my unconscious I can speak them out, even if it's because I dropped an ice cube out of the ice cube maker and it shot across the floor. I will literally talk to myself while I'm sliding around the kitchen floor trying to pick up this ice cube.
Right, But that's also a hack that you talking what you want to do allows your conscience to confront you before you do it, because if you don't talk it, then it can only confront you after you do it. But again, you're you're unconscious. You're conscious is in your unconscious. So what happens is is that if you say it, write it, or do it, you're unconscious and your conscience can respond. So you have a half I don't have
to do it and find out later. I can say out loud, I'm going to do it, and now I activate my conscience. But notice what should happen the human machine to run? Right? I do something it's wrong, I feel pain. I fix it. So what happens in the schools, what happens with parents? The kid does something wrong, they feel bad about it. They come back like these teachers go, I say to this kid, you spill glitter all over
their paper. That was wrong. No, it wasn't. And then they come back and go, yeah, it was wrong, and the teacher goes, I told you it was wrong. So what you just do? We want to encourage the kid's conscience as a human. We want them to be sensitive to their conscience. We want them to be sensitive to the internal pushback on repairing the mistakes. If you yell at them when they do that, they're going to start ignoring that. So what happens is the teacher goes, I
want them never to make a mistake. Not a human, that's a robot. And when you do that, yell at them, you damage their conscience, which makes them less human. And now this is why you have a criminal, or you have people running around who never repair the stuff they do wrong because they're taught don't admit you're wrong.
And I was just going to say that behavior from that teacher caused that child to then have like oppositional defiant behavior because I'm going to get yelled at anyway no matter what I do, even if I feel bad, they're going to yell at me. So your defense mechanism is to act out, because that's your protective system going up right.
So that's that's how when we don't understand how a body and brain's supposed to work, and we don't understand, you know what, we're really trying to develop this conscience, then we end up trying to make everybody a robot, and we when we damage it. But we can change people's behavior with the unconscious. So what we did was we have seven unconscious confrontations that we teach because there's a lot of different ways to access the unconscious brain.
And we tried to teach this to these program support teachers. There was fourteen of them in this school, in this big school district up in Wisconsin, and we taught it to them, and none of them would do it. They just it just seemed the opposite of everything they'd learned. It's en counterintuitive if they didn't want to do it. So Jonathan and I said, and these were all women, we said, we want you next time we meet in two weeks, we want you to come with a behavior
your husband has you want changed. And so the cat inside of the bed was one of them. As this woman said, every night, my husband takes the cat from his side of bed and puts it on I said to Ben when he goes to sleep, and I've told him not to do that. I've told him. So we went one by one with these fourteen teachers, found out what they wanted change. We taught them the specific unconscious
conversation that we're working in this situation. Two weeks later, when they come back, all of them their husband's behavior had instantly changed. End of the school year, all of the husbands still had changed their behavior. And the teachers, all these program support teachers, said, would it ruin it if we asked if we told them what we did? And I'm like, yeah, you make them conscious of it.
That's really how you change behavior and the human you change behavior in the unconscious, not the conscious, because your conscience, which is really drying your behavior, is in your unconscious. So when you think about it, when people try to prove their point online, they're acting like the conscience is in the conscious and if I could just convince you consciously, it'll change your behavior. It doesn't your unconscious.
So what do you do if you have a situation involving a child and bullying from like a parent, like the parents are separated, you have one parent that is bullying and bullying the child, but also bullying that spouse, and the spouse's new you know, spouse, Like, how do you do that when there's two separate households involved, because that's a huge issue nowadays two because the divorce rate is so crazy.
It's a huge issue. And I can tell you there have been at least three people that I've shown them how to deal with their ex and they're shocked. It's two exchanges, and they're like, these text exchanges used to go for three days, and you're telling me I have had this done in five to ten minutes, and I'm like, yeah, So the thing is is that is I always I teach them to ask a question. So when you when you text your X, you want to ask them one
of these unconscious confrontation questions. And sometimes it stops right there. But then when their response, then I teach them I basically we give up control. We asked this question. I call it an open ended question. We're going to ask this question and we're gonna let whatever their response is, then we're going to apply it to this situation. And
so I don't know. I can't tell you the second response until we see what there is because we're gonna we're going to feedback to them their response, remem what I said about it. Sorry you feel that way. We're going to take their response and feed it back to them with the question, and it's going to stop that nip it in the butt. So that's what I do.
And people are always shocked that. And this is what I do with with managers, executives and the C suite is ask a question and then we're gonna take their response and feed it back to them with a question. And that's going to be the end of that argument. Now they'll start an argument in another area. You know, they start an argument picking up the kids from basketball, right,
so you put it into that. Then they put an argument about Thanksgiving visit, and we put it unto that, and I'm like, we're just gonna keep closing these doors and eventually they're all gone. Now with the kids, we really want to teach these kids how to do this unconscious confrontation and how to defend themselves against the parent. And I can tell you that we have testimonials from these teachers saying we teach the kids this information and
they fix their families. Because if you think about it, if I were to talk. If I John Lenhart from the outside, We're to go talk to a parent, They're gonna block me out, right, who do you think you are? But if I teach the kid how to reach the parent, they don't block the kid. And so I'm actually more effective. I said, I can fix families working with the kids more than I can with the parents. The kids are
at the parents. When you look at students, teachers, and parents, like during COVID, I said, the parents are the most stressed out people. I know, the teachers are very stressed out. The parents are the most stressed out people. And if we could get to the parents, that would be great. But the parents, they don't. They say they want help with their kids. And I will tell you this, Yeah, and I will tell you this. A large percentage of parents hate their kids m h and feel bad that they.
That's why I pose that question because there are so many people that I know currently that have the situation, you know, the split households and one parent hates the other hates their ex and so they use that child as a pawn and bully the child, you know, and then the child's bouncing back and forth between two households. That operate differently, and everything is chaos and all of these households, all of them.
Yep. And unfortunately, I have a lot of experience with this personal experience and then also experience helping a lot of other people. And I will tell you the worst thing about our system is that the first parent who bullies gets away with it. Case every single case, the first parent starts the bullying and the second parent goes, well, they're gonna do this, so I'm gonna do that, and the guardian and everybody goes, if you do that, you're never gonna see your kid again. And you're like, it's
the result. It's like, wait a minute, they're bullying the kid and you're you're letting that go. But and it's like, you don't have a way to help that. The only thing you can do is stop me by threatening me. Right, Oh, they're getting away with it. They got there. The first parent that bullies gets away with it because the second parent is the one that gets threatened. That's the way
our system currently works. And that's why I I help a lot of these people who are the second The second parent's the good parent, m and so I can I'm and those are the people who reach out for help. So I helped the second parent. But yeah, that's that's reality. If you're coming to me, I know you're the second parent. I know the first parent has already started the bullying process. And I know you're frustrated that you've been threatened that if you bully, you're the one who's going to lose
the kid. So the first parent of bully is going to get the kids.
Yeah.
And and like you said, a lot of parents don't like their kids. And it is so evident the way that these people choose to bully and manipulate their own children for personal gains, so that they can use them as a pond to hurt somebody else.
Yep. And then also they'll literally sometimes even say it to the kid, I wish you weren't you know, if you had been born this, I could have just walked away from this marriage. And that's the amount of.
I would have never got a divorce if you were ever born.
Right.
I've heard that one many times from people.
So that's where I want to help the kid, and I want to help them have some skills to deal with with the bullying they're getting from the parent. And also the bullying. They're getting, you know, from school, the same thing. But I think my thing was to get to the teachers and the kids because I couldn't get to the parents. And the problem is is that the teachers got so overwhelmed that the only people I could
help is the kids. And then now what happens is is parents, the good parent will hear about me and reach out and I can help them with that.
I think that's fantastic, and I seriously wish there were programs instituted in not only all of the schools, but in churches as well, because that's seriously lacking in a lot of organized churches, court system, all of that stuff. Everything needs overhauled and revamped because the system is not set up to help people in any way, shape or form. It is meant to cause further divide, and unfortunately.
Like John said before, the solution is available. The problem is that there's an old joke about consultings. I've been a consulting world for a while, and the joke is, if you can't, if you can't, if you can't solve a problem, there's lots of money to be made in prolonging the problem. There are a lot of people who
are incentivized to keep the problem going. John mentioned before, the c suite doesn't want to give up that control and gives them because basically, if you brought the cure to them, well, if you cure me of my bullying, then they think they won't be as effective of a person in the c suite. And that's the difference. And I don't know if we talked about this last time, the difference between a leader and a boss, I would say ninety plus percent of people in the c suite
are bosses. A boss is someone who facilitates their purpose and progress at the expense of others beneath them, where as a leader is someone who facilitates your purpose and progress is at their expense. I remember one boss I had to this day. We're still friends because the first day I started working for him is when I moved
up to the Bay Area. He hired me for a job, and like the maybe first week he said, look ed, I know that I hired you for this job, and I hope you do it well, and I think we can.
Have a great working relationship.
But if you ever get to a point where you don't, this job isn't for you, and you see something that's going to make you happier, I will help you get to that other position. So he's saying, I'm I like you as an employee, but I'm willing to lose you as an employee.
If it was for your happiness, your own happiness.
And I told he didn't be I don't even think he realized the impacts that had on me. I told him years later, and he say, really, that's something that just say because he is a leader. And I still have that kind of royalty to him, because he let me know that he was going to put me ahead of even his own well being. That's what leader does.
And because he saw you as a human right and and portrayed human you know, characteristics in his care and compassion for you instead of selfishness and his own needs.
And remember, sorry, I don't want to say. What happens is when he does that, his unconscious gives them these pleasure chemicals and he gets settled versus a boss tries to take and it doesn't make him happy, so they think they need to take more, and that's why they get progressively worse. So you start off kind of in the middle, and then you're going to go down one path to the other. You're going to turn in this narcissistic boss, or you're going to turn into this you
know leader, compassionate leader. But it's how you responded right away. So that's the issue, is if we understood how our brains work, we'd have a better shot at being leaders. And that's right. I teach that definition of leader to people, so now their unconscious knows that and can confront them when they start being a boss.
Right, And it really gets back to what I said originally, is about fear that person, that leader he will let go of even he didn't need to control me or anyone else, right, And that's what made him a leader because he did not have that fear. He says, you know what, he's a great employee, but I'd rather he be happy. I'm willing to release my control over him, where as a boss would say the ops, I don't know this guys a good worker. I want to not only do I want to keep him with me, I
want to make sure he's at the same level. I don't want him to rise to my level or above, because I want to control where he is. And that's what a boss does. So it really gets back down to fear versus control. And the reason that a lot of these bosses in the C suite don't want to embrace this this solution that would dissolve the problem is that it would involve him giving up control and becoming a leader. Because a leader is not going to try.
To control you. But he thinks that won't make him happy, right exactly. I think, you know what, maybe if we are going to do this again, we can probably talk about happiness. I'm because I can explain there's an equation. I can explain it to you and and and uh it and how it impacts everything. That would be something to talk about the next time. That'd be perfect.
And one of last things that I made a note about earlier is that I weld probably have to get going. John mentioned that you know what what a narcissist and what a bully does is they they pray on the areas where they pray on low self esteem. And if you have your high self esteem, it's you know, they can't victimize you. But but I want to make it clear that we have different levels of self esteem in different areas of our lives. So there are some areas
where I have very high self esteem. There are other areas where I were I don't like as as as a teacher, I have high self esteem. I think, I think I have the knowledge and I can I can do I can teach, and I'm very comfortable with it and I get the flow what I'm teaching. But then there are other areas where you know, I have low self esteem. So the purpose, the point is to raise your self esteem in all of the areas in your life, you know, using your intangible drivers, so that you have,
you know, across the board high self esteem. So then I say that because there may be some people listening and watching right now who say, well, I'm bullied, but I have but I have high self esteem. Well, look at where you're being bullied and that might be an area where your self esteem is low.
You need to grow it. So just let me go through the four levels of self esteem for people, so they I think you're you're shedding light on the side. This good way to to wrap this up. So the lowest area is no self esteem. And people who are no self esteem, they only get pleasure by put giving pain to other people. So if you're no self esteem, and this is somebody who Basically, remember, confidence in your uniqueness is someone who doesn't have any confidence low self esteem.
So above is low self esteem. This is somebody whose solution is confidence. They don't know who they are. So most of the people that are influencers are low self esteem. They're driven by likes. I want likes. Do these people even know you? Nope, nope.
I just want to need that acceptance.
So confidence, so it's like, I can, I can, I can put confidence on the outside has nothing to do with your uniqueness. It's just confidence.
People who showed their body on Instagram for example, Right right, right, that's right.
So it's just I just want to get confidence, but I still know who I am. Mid self esteem is you know who you are, but you're not fully confident. So I like to say, if a professional basketball player told me I'm a great basketball player, I wouldn't need to get any better at it, and I would tell everybody about it. I know a guy, a teacher who's some famous mathematician, sat at the table with him and gave him a compliment, and thirty years later, this teacher
is still telling everybody about the compliment. That's mid self esteem. Hey, this person recognized this Now, what most parents are trying to do is get their kids down mid self esteem. They want their kids to care what their parent, teacher, coach, pastor says about them. So if you sit there and go, you know, because a peer or a peer pressure is low self esteem. And that's what we say if they
jump off a bridge, would you jump off a bridge? Yeah, okay, you're just looking for a like, But why don't you Why don't you value what your parent says, what your teacher says. And so when we get to mid self esteem, we go, you made it. That's not high self esteem. And when I give this definition of high self esteem, you used to have to say it twice because it's so opposite. So an area your high self esteem is is when when somebody affirms you, you don't feel better
about yourself, you feel better about the other person. So Jesus is the best example of this. Jesus the centurion comes and says, hey, will you heal this? You know my guy? And Jesus goes yeah, And Jesus goes to show me where he is in. The centurion goes no, no, no, no, no, I'm a man of authority, I'm a man in authority. I know if I say something that happens. I know you are the son of God. You say this, it'll happen. And Jesus didn't. This guy affirmed, Jesus, big, I know
you get to say a word. Jesus didn't turn to the sidement joke. You see that, see that I'm all that, aren't I awesome? Jesus said, I'm amazed at him? This guy affirmed Jesus, and Jesus doesn't feel any better about himself because he's fully confident who he is. Jesus actually goes, I'm amazed at you for seeing that in me. So if there's an area where somebody compliments you and you go, yeah,
I know, but I'm amazed. I'm impressed. You see that your high self esteem, you're fully confident in who you are in that area. The Intangible Driver test takes people to mid self esteem. You now know who you are. That's what's so valuable about that quiz. You take it and it takes you from low and lo to mid. Now as you operate in that, you're moving your way to high self esteem.
And I love that you stented with that and you brought that up because that is one thing that I think is severely lacking in society people that have high self esteem being able to put that positive reaffirmation into someone else and be like, well, thank you for saying that, But I want you to know how proud I am of you because of the growth that you've made and all of these things that you have overcome. People do not do that enough, and that's.
One of the solutions to happiness.
Maybe absolutely, absolutely, so we will start with you, mister John. Where can people find you at?
I'm at flowss dot com. I'm also on LinkedIn under John Lenheart and I'm in Instagram under modeling God all one word?
All right, and how about you, Ed? Where can people find you?
The best place to find me is my website Faith by Reason dot net, not dot com. That's a different, different person faithbad Reason dot net. Everything is there. If you want to go to YouTube, you can find me. You can look me up there, but it's easier just to go to faith bad Reason dot net. Everything is there. I'm also on on Rumble and on x but yeah, if you go to the other website, that is the best place to to find all my work.
Fantastic in FYI.
You'll see this soon coming up. I'm starting a Patreon uh presence from to for people want to take a deeper dive in into what I do that goes kind of above and beyond. So there's the bonus content extra stuff there and and and also a live Bible study in that. That's that's that has been life changing for myself as well as the people who have been taught. So yeah, look look for that information be coming out soon and I'm gonna probably credit that started next month.
Fantastic And I want to say a big, huge shout out and thank you gratitude highly for both of you gentlemen for spending time with me again for explaining things in a way hopefully people can understand and put to use in their daily lives, not just with their spouse, with their children, with their co workers, family members, etc. So for me, for John, and for Ed, thanks for listening and we will catch you next time. Have a great day.