#890- Black Magick | Using Angels & Demons? W/ JS Garrett & Lord Byron Jester

Oh, redal tess Are and welcome to the show.

This is the Cult of Conspiracy and my name's Jonathan.

I'm Jacobin.

Today we got a long awaited show.

It's been talked about for weeks now and it's finally here. Welcome to the show. Well, Lord Byron Jester. First of all, how you doing today, sir?

Oh, I'm fantastic.

How you guys doing awesome?

Awesome man, And also accompanying him would be JS Garrett.

What's up, dude?

Hey, how's going man? Thanks for having me on.

Yeah, you know, we've been talking about this for a little while, just trying to understand your side over there, and you know, and yeah, well, I mean you came on too Meta Mysteries a couple of months ago, and that was a fascinating conversation. I absolutely loved it, me and Sean both and of course Byron, you know, you're our first magician friend, so you're I mean, you've made more appearances on Meta Mysteries than I think anybody else, so it's kind of your home away from home there.

But uh, but.

Yeah, dude, it's been really looking forward to this conversation, and mainly because well, we have a few questions. I mainly kind of wanted you and Jacob to go back and forth because I've already had the conversation with you. But if you could maybe explain what it is you do, Okay.

I'll do my best to sum that up, and as few words as possible here, A.

Few words, whatever, long words.

Either way, it goes for anybody who is a listener of the Cult of Conspiracy who has never heard any bit of the work that you do, how you got started it, to what levels it goes, give us the overarching elevator speech, if you will, all right.

Cool, Well, I'm a professional black magician. Some people would call you a ceremonial magician. I don't really do ceremonies. I perform rituals specifically to cause action at a distance. Whereas ceremonies is exactly that it's it's it's a it's a ceremony for show. We're actually using metaphysics to try to create change in reality. So I do a lot

You know.

I can dip into any pathy on It doesn't have to be a system that you know that you're born into. It doesn't it doesn't really matter. You know, A black magician can can delve into any system and find the gold within it and use it for his practice, his or her practice. So yeah, I work a lot with demons.

Got you.

So I got a couple of questions right off the rip you are. You don't seem to be an elderly gentleman by any means. So how long would you say that you have been performing? Would it be correct to say the dark arts? I don't want to miss label.

Yeah, yeah, I mean it's you're not gonna fit me by miss labeling anything. Okay, Well, I mean I'm almost forty, about to turn forty here in a couple of weeks. I did my first ritual when I was ten years old. My first spell I was a curse. Actually, I believe that someone had harmed my mother, and you know, I was ten years old. What was I going to do? But I want to do something about it, So like I'll throw some voodoo at that motherfucker. So, yeah, I

Okay, so I got some questions on the professional nature of it. But first off, ten years old, for reasons, you feel like you need to make something happen in your tense. You know your your resources are limited as far as enacting some bad shit on this guy.

I'm with you.

Where did you get the idea to do candles and make a wax voodoo doll and bury it? Like and especially now that you are somebody who has been in this world for a good while, I'm sure you look back at that and laugh, like I thought I was doing this. I was actually doing this, silly me. I didn't know any better. Where did you get the inspiration and the uh just the mechanics of that particular ritual at ten years old?

Well, I mean i'd obviously probably heard about voodoo dolls from TV, from movies. Sure, that was the first thing that popped to mind. So I'm sure I probably seen that in the movie somewhere. I didn't really know how to do it, so I just I just really thought about it for a while, the kind of meditated on it, and it just kind of came to me like, all right, well it makes sense. You know, I make a wax doll, gotta melt some wax down, and I knew I needed

From movies of that too, that's allway.

What was that a practical magic back in the day, they got their teacher's shoe or their hair or whatever made the little Barbie doll do shit in the class? You know, eighties movies are wild and shit, I get it.

So that's probably where I got my ideas from. It is hard to remember which which movies I had seen at that age, but you know the rest of it, I just kind of winged it. You know, I knew I needed. I instinctively knew that I needed like raw anger and rage. Yeah, they needed a fetish link, and so I obtained that, which was the hair carved their name and birthday into the dolls chest with like a

It brought up a term called the fetish link.

Now, for a lot of people, they may not know what you mean by that, right, So fetish has different connotations, especially in our modern English of vernacular. They're gonna think you mean some BDSM fifty shades the bullshit things up in here.

So recently we.

Did an episode talking about the Dogon tribe in Africa. Right, they are very superstitious people and they have alters with their fetishes on it. We kind of talked about it briefly, but can you go into depth about what you mean by that as a fetish link for magic?

Okay, all right? So what I mean by that is something of the person's or you know, like a piece of them hair, fingernails, blood, DNA, or you know, something that it belongs to them that they've had a lot of physical contact with. Could work for something like that, like a piece of jewelry that that person has worn, or if you have none of that, then you make your own fed link out of the photo. So I

And you said that it's important that this is there, right Like, you can't. This is not something you can do off of intention alone. Is it possible to perform a ritual or sacrifice or ceremony to whatever level? Again, not trying to miss label that you do, but you have envisioned it so deeply in hardcore in your mind that that would work as a fetish link or does there actually have to be something physical as a part of the ordeal?

Okay, so I'll say that you can do spellcraft on another person without that fetish link. Obviously, you have to know who they are. You need to know their name and you know what. You need to know who your target is, you know, but the fetish link helps, it really helps, especially if it's DNA. I mean, because if you were going to make for sympathetic magic anyway, you really need something like that. Where I say sympathetic magic,

You know, that's another question.

Though.

Let's say that that is the case the drone situation. You sick a demon on this person. You don't know if it's a kid or if it's a fifty year old man, will the demon have the morality to say, urch a, wait a second, that's a twelve year old fucking off. Maybe I shouldn't go and deal with this or will they just kind of do as they're commanded to do?

Well, first of all, I don't command them at all, excuse me. The second of all, that depends on the demon, and I would definitely want to specify that if I were going to perform that operation, like, Hey, if this is a kid, I'm not worried about it, don't do anything. But if it's on perverb trying to get a look at, you know, my girlfriend through the window or something, then take them out. I don't care how you take them out, just take them out. I don't everyone to see that

And you know, most of most magicians will use or witches whatever you want to call them, will use sympathetic magic if they're wing to attack someone.

Very few people are skilled enough to thought forms or work with demonic anentities successfully to attack someone, and even the ones that are capable of it, a lot of times they'll still use sympathetic magic for some reason.

So if you could break this down a little deeper, sympathetic magic and then use the term thought forms to evoke a demon break down a little bit deeper what you mean by this? What is sympathetic magic and how does that differ from I don't want to use like candle magic obviously uses candles, but like sympathetic magic as opposed to what other types.

Yes, sympathetic magic is where you know what like for instance, making a doll or making a love jar or a cursed jar, something that you're doing arts and craft wise to go along with this, where you'd want something of that person's to link the energy to this. If you were going to make like a hex bag or something or poison jar, you would want a fetish link to put in there, and that would be considered sympathetic magic. Whereas attacking someone with thought forms or demonic evocation, there

To owe anybody anything, and I don't want to owe any entity anything either, So you know, I will offer them a sacrifice along with a petition to do what I'm asking in exchange for that sacrifice.

Now, can they screw me and take the sacrifice and not do what I ask them? Absolutely? Really, they you know, they probably are not going to do that if you approach them respectfully. It's like if the spirit does not respect you, they're not going to help you, you know, or they might teach you a stupid lesson, you know.

So we like a few years ago, we had this guest on and he is a self proclaimed Reptilian channeler, and and it almost sounds very similar as to what you're talking about as for your work with demons, because he was basically saying, look, you gotta you got to go in with a certain level of confidence, so they're just gonna boss you around the whole time, and they're very you know, uh, I don't know what the.

Term the types of reptiles who was something over the Alpha Draconians, which are like a warring dickhead style tribe of the extraterrestrial variety. He's basically saying, if you're not coming in there like you have the biggest stick in the room, they're gonna treat you like a bit. You had to come in with some swagger to even have the conversation, right yeah, yeah, Yeah.

That's why most people recommend, like been working with Gin, especially violent Gin, that you carry a sword in the in the ritual space with you, Like they'll actually tell you to wear a sword. You know, I'll be standing there like this. You know that's acting like a threat, but having a weapon is a.

Show of strength. Mm hmm.

Okay, So I got many many questions to follow up on, but real quick, you just said a gin and it sounds like you are distinguishing them as separate entities from demons. Can you give me a breakdown is what the differences are, if there are any? Or are you using these terms interchangeably?

Uh?

Okay me personally, I don't think there's much of a difference all right, other than how cultures describe entities.

Most scholars would agree with you, But the way you've been using it, I'm just making sure. Is there a difference between calling upon a gen versus calling upon a demon?

Probably specific, right, I think it's really just the label that we slap on them.

Okay, Okay, that's fair because the Gin are more of the Arabic variety, but by their definition and by their depictions, they are what some of the more western scholarly types would classify as demonic entities.

So yeah, I didn't know.

Just here, like the ars Gaetia, you know, it's got the list of the seventy two demons or gin that King Solomon worked with and then bound in the Brass vessel. Well, I mean, according to the Keys of Solomon, those are Gin, all right, But most people refer to them as demons. The Christians definitely refer to them as demons, right, So what exactly are they? What's the difference. I don't know if you'd be able to really tell a difference if a gin and an angel and a demon were all

Fair enough, fair enough? Okay.

So you said that you like to pay up front and you don't want to owe anyone anything. So you are saying that there are practitioners or even I don't want to say, want to be practitioners or beginners who will make deals with these demons, but they are not paying up fronts. They end up owing a demon. What does that look like on the back end of that?

All right? So, I mean one, one example of what you just said would be to make a pact with a demon.

Yeah, so it's, you.

Know, quid pro qube, like you do to make.

A deal with the devil if you will.

Yeah. Yeah, So so you would have it and you write it like a legal contract. And I have done this before and I've done it. I've helped other people do it as well, and it was it was successful, but they held up their end of the bargain each time. So you would say, you know, I'm asking you to do this for me, and if you agree to do this for me and this certain time period, then I

Okay, So I mean I would agree with that statement.

I just just to you know, what does that look like as far as would they go back on their deal at that point or is it you know, I guess it depends on the deal and It depends on the situation. Is this something where it was a one shot or deal and now you're on the hook for the next ten years, or is it something that you know, a relationship that you ask this demon to make happen for you in that relationship five years, ten years down the road gets ripped away from you.

It I guess it's situationally based.

Yes, yes, absolutely.

Okay, fair enough, fair enough.

Now you brought up ceremonial magic and you say that that is more for show what you do is by definition, would you call it more practical?

Absolutely? Right?

Explain the difference between ceremonial magic and practical magic, because by what you're describing, you do perform a ceremony for the sacrifice, right, So is it what is the differences here?

Well, to me, I really feel like the difference between a ceremony and a ritual is a ceremony is done for the sake of doing the ceremony, whereas a ritual is done for a specific purpose to cause something to happen as a result of that working. So, uh, Satanic orders, you know they have they have ceremonies. Catholic Mass is a ceremony. Yeah, it's it's a it's it's a it's that's all it is. It's just a ceremony.

And so a black mass as opposed to.

Doing a sacrifice to get a certain response directly, right, got you?

Okay, okay, fair enough.

Now you said also that you are cutting off the head or sacrificing of the animal.

There's blood involved.

What types of animals my background of this, Jonathan has told me that chickens get used pretty regularly, and I mean there's plenty of movies that will show that. I mean, it was a weekend at Bernie's two where they use a pigeon instead of a chicken. So the dude only like gets up and walks around when there's music playing or something.

There's you know, they make spoofs of these things.

Now does it matter what type of animal that you're doing for this?

Okay? So if that can depend on the entity, if they have a preference, like it might you know, say in a grimoire, you know, this spirit prefers this as a sacrifice. They could prefer a rabbit as opposed to a chicken, something like that. But the reason that that most people use chickens is it's practical. They're they're easy to usually and they provide a large amount of blood, which is the more blood the better in a sacrifice. The more blood the more energy, as well as the size.

That was my next question is why would you said the sacrifice for deification. Why would someone need the energy of the chicken, the energy of the sacrifice for their body.

So it's typically for healing.

Typically for healing, either that or just overall enhancement. You know, a lot of magicians have had me do this ritual for them. It gives it. I mean, I'm basically just transferring all the energy from a rooster into the person. You can use that energy manifest this physical energy. Like you know, you won't sleep a lot after that. You know, you sleep for like two hours and then wake up and be ready to go, especially in the first few

Know, Okay, fair enough now talking about that you you are transferring the life energy from this creature to yourself, not to your necessarily your body, or to your soul or to your essence kind of all the above.

Yeah, all the above. I mean it's first absorbed by your energy body, and then that transfers into the physical body it appears to during sleep. So I find that the process, at least for me, takes about three days.

To complete the ceremony or to feel the full effect.

Like I have to say, damn it boy, three days jeeah.

No, I can do. I can do the ritual in about four or five hours. Okay, that's from the time I start setting up to this time I finish. But I noticed that the energy when I do it for myself or when I've had other magicians do it for me. We exchange rituals with each other. I will notice that energy absorbing into me over about a three day period, like I'll feel it. I'll literally feel like electricity absorbing into my body.

Okay, so it's it's gonna.

Be probably a little bit different for everyone, but most people react to it very similarly. You know, they have more energy, higher libido, their health issues clear up because your body knows how to heal itself, it just needs the sustenance to do it. So I'm not actually healing them. I'm just giving their the energy they need to heal themselves.

Okay.

With that being said, you said that the more blood the better, right, That's why you might use one animal versus another. Does that same rule apply to you whenever you're doing this type of ritual?

Yeah?

Absolutely, Okay, So just asking the dumb question here, why not sacrifice a pig, a cow, something very large with a lot of blood. Would that not be even more so in that realm? Or is it just a logistics issue at that point?

No? Absolutely, Yeah, it's a practicality. I can't possibly bring a full grown cow into my backyard and incinerate its entire carcass. But I'm glad you asked that question, because yes, I do think that a cow or a horse or a pig would be way more powerful than a rooster, which is why I'm planning to buy a slaughterhouse in future that will give me access to these creatures. I'm actually going to set up ritual alters, you know, each sacrificial spot like it will be an altar to a

To start a farm, man, yeah, I mean shit, I'm trying to start my own farm, but not to that purpose. It's strip just to feed my family on the cheap, cheap there's you know, the long term goal here.

But fuck all right, yeah, farm would work too.

And my grandparents were farmers. I remember them slaughtering their own cows and pigs and things like that. So yeah, that's a great idea as well.

Just the more economic way to do it.

Man.

Honestly, you slaughter one cow, you basically got beef for the whole year, as long as you got a deep freeze. I just you know, it's that upfront cost that's the bitch in the half. But anyway, all right, I'm sorry boys, I know Jonathan and Lord Byron. I know that we are kind of boguarding the conversation. If you'all do want to jump in, please do so. I have like a million questions.

Well, when you're talking about being cheaper, like to raise your own cattle, it's also a lot more humane and ethical, you know, Yeah, you know, because like one thing the vegans do have right is like factory farming is just an abomination.

The industrial agriculture has absolutely been the pain of the earth.

It's a holocaust that happens like every minute of every day.

Yeah, I agree with.

That about right, just for anybody that is curious out there. And I do want you you guys to go back to your you know, your conversation that you're having, because I'm just kind of sitting over here entertained to be honest. But we've had conversations as far as well, how could you possibly be working with demons and angelic beings? And and how would you know the difference between an angel coming to help you as opposed to a demon. Wouldn't a demon just lie and say that they're an angel?

Now, I mean like I said, those are the labels that have been put on these beings by different religious organizations. We really don't know what they are, and I don't think that there's a difference between them really other than their personalities. And I'll tell you what angels can be just as terrifying, if not more. You know one angel, and how can I work with both? Because I don't have any rules. I don't I answer to no one and nothing, and I can do whatever the hell I want.

So that question is not necessarily for you.

It's more along the lines of why would an angel who works in the side of light even pay attention to a blood sacrifice being done? By definition, they don't even pay attention to that because that's not what feeds them.

Well, I mean, the question that's easy to answer is because they don't give shit. They all like blood. They all are intoxicated by blood. Angels are more blood thirsty than demons, dude. And I mean look, I mean they slaughtered all the firstborn children in Egypt. I mean like, like, whenever, if I really want to fuck somebody up, I'll sum an angel and send it after him. They're all about smiting someone, dude. Damn lots of wrath and vengeance there.

What type of angel if you don't mind me asking, There's a few different ranks and file them to them.

Oh, I mostly work with archangels, but you definitely Raphael, the archangel Raphael. That's that's like the number one guy I work with the heel people. He's also known as the Divine Surgeon. They said that he has a power to heal any illness right, and I was like, well, shit, I'm gonna test that theory. You know, I know somebody's dying. Let's see if I can stop it. And it works.

Interesting, just out of curiosity as far as the angels doing it, though, like, are there any demons that would assist in healing? Or is that only an angelic thing.

Yeah.

Absolutely, A really excellent demon for healing is Marbos. He's actually in the arts go Atia. So I mean, like I said, he's described as a gin, he's described as a as a demon. Some you know, they'll call him, you know, fallen angels, you know, like like okay, Belile for example, the Christians call them the fallen angel, the Keys of Solomon call them the gin, and everyone else

Bro, I've been saying this. I've been saying this shit the whole time. Dude, I knew it's the same thing.

Yeah, why do angels or demons need a craft that also kind of goes against their very nature, does it not?

Well?

I mean, if you're talking about working, you know, interacting with them in physical form, you don't think they have physical bodies somewhere.

I mean, I would assume they do, but I also don't think that their physical bodies necessarily apply to the of our physical nature, because they're not of our physical nature. If anything, you could say they bouncing it out of dimensional form or something like that. But having an actual craft that they are writing to come down, that kind of sounds a bit ridiculous, isn't it.

Well, I mean, in the Book of Enoch, they were talking about it being the very physical thing the two hundred watcher angels that came to Earth to to to impregnate human women to create the race of giants. So I mean they're talking about physical.

Beings there, right, But they were talking about a craft coming down or something.

Well, they supposedly landed in a craft on Mount Herman, so they're literally talking about aliens.

I've never heard the craft on Mount Herman. I heard they landed and they resided on Mount Herman.

But I mean, okay, if they landed there, then what did they land in?

They just kind of like the sky it kind of like lands on the ground. It doesn't like land in. Something necessarily lands on the ground.

I don't know.

We'll never know because we weren't there, but I mean, that's that's what I think. I think there were physical beings that that literally came down on in physical form and probably in some type of craft. I don't know either way.

It's one of those things that's kind of fun to speculate on.

I guess, you know, no doubt.

You know, you don't have to be married to it. Yeah, no, no, no idea.

You know.

And to be fair, I just found the one of the excerpts, but it says according to the Biblical apocrypha, particularly the Book of Enoch, Mount Herman is believed to be the place where fallen angels known as the Watchers, descended to Earth and took human wives. This event is often associated with the concept of their sinful desire for human women. Anyway, it just says descended. It doesn't say like did they come up out of the ether or did they land, you know, with.

A craft or anything.

So maybe that was, you know, not necessarily mentioned one way or another.

I don't know.

But to your point, do you also believe in extraterrestrials as far as aliens, and not necessarily the cool colloquial you know, little.

Green men from Mars conversation.

But let's just say life outside of our Solar system or outside of our galaxy, another planet out there that has living entities, not just spiritual or ethereal or interdimensional, but like actual living organisms somewhere.

Else in space. Yeah. Absolutely, so oh I agree with that.

So just so we're all clear here, because a lot of people that I've talked to of and yes, I am a Christian, and somehow some of my Christian brothers and sisters out there just are very very set in their ways, going with no facts whatsoever, just their opinion, which everybody's entitled to it, I get it. But they are of the belief that, like, oh, I don't believe in aliens, I believe in demons. And I'm like, wait, why are the two? Why are the two in the

I think all these are happening at the same time.

I was just making sure if you are classifying these demons to be extraterrestrials as well, or do you think those are separate conversations.

I mean, I think there's probably a whole lot of different species out there and a lot of different categories. Man, I don't I don't know for sure what's what. I can only speculate. I do believe in the Watchers. I work with them a lot and get results. So I'm working with something that's very real. And they did supposedly impregnate human women, so they had to have some type of physical body. They had to have a schlong.

Yeah, And so these are shifting creatures as well. Correct, they're shape shifting creatures. Correct, So like they could take the form of whatever they wanted, they want to take the physical form, but do with a schlong to impregnate a woman.

That's they had that ability supposedly.

Yeah, that or Watchers were shape shifters. But I mean, yeah, that's that's definitely. You know, I've studied a lot about shape shifters. I was talking about this book on podcasts the other day. There's an actual complete ritual in here that someone can go out in the woods and perform to supposedly turn themselves into a shape shifter.

Yes, And as a matter of fact, there's a few different groups out there. One of them is one of the off branches of Oto where they and depends on who you ask here, but they believe that they are going into the esoteric side of Freemasonry, not just the first thirty three degrees. They believe there's three hundred and sixty degrees of freemasonry of the real freemasonry. And they believe that once you get to a certain level, there's three different paths.

That you can choose.

One of them would be to go more into the warlock and wizard realm of things, one would be to go into the vampiric realm, and then the other would be to go into the shape shifter realm. So there's absolutely rituals that could be performed to get someone to actually shape shift, let alone.

What they have is.

Far as skin walkers go, which that is absolutely ritualistic dark blood magic to be performed to shape shift, but the problem is changing back afterwards.

There's a little bit of a snap foo on that one apparently. But yeah, to your.

Point, now, I think those things are real.

Okay, I'm with you here now, Like we said, here, demons, you work with them pretty often, you do you physically see them when you are doing this work with them?

Well, I mean they don't like poof in front of me like Darth Vader on the Hologram. You know, like if I set up a camera across from my ritual space and then go through a frame by a frame, you'll absolutely see them in the flames and in the smoke. You know, a flame is a manifestation based smoke is a manifestation bas.

So.

Yeah, they do also appear as orbs, like these little flaming balls of They just like little blue balls of fire that lead like a flaming trail behind it when you play slow motion. Got a lot of those on camera.

Okay, Yeah, do they manifest Yes? They do.

Did I stand there and talk to them like I'm talking a lot? I do talk to them like we're talking now, But no, I would not see them standing there like in full physical form.

No, okay, So the story of Faust and the Faustian Deal and all that, where this dude was sitting by the fire and was having a full blown conversation with the devil, just smoking and joking with him, and then decide to sign the contract in his own blood and all that. That's a bit of a artistic rendition, if you will.

Yeah, I have no idea if that story is true or not. I've never had the devil manifest in complete physical forms that they're going to have a drink with me.

Wow.

They typically will communicate telepathy, like they will drill something directly into your head, and a lot of times I'll get it like a cooling sensation like right here my forehead before like a download will come during a ritual. Other times it feels like my head's and advice and it literally hurts. It's it's it's quite literally very painful when this happens. And it happens a lot with painful magic.

Like baineful magic.

You said, yes, bainful uh curses Okay, Yeah, And I'll feel quite literally like my head's and advice and it's squeezing harder and harder and the pain just builds and builds and builds until it gets the point where I can't take it anymore. And then it's like it like explodes. You feel like this, this explosion come out of the top of your head. And then the pain dissipates.

And that's after the ritual has successfully been completed or when they decide that they've gotten what they wanted out of you.

What what stops it?

Uh? That usually is towards the very end of the ritual, whenever that that pressure will release, so before the ritual has been completed and closed out.

So with you working with certain demons of well, it's like, uh, of the ursisha, the demons of Geisha is I would think that why wouldn't you just straight up only work with the devil? Is the devil or Lucifer or Satan more powerful than any of the other demons that you've have You ever tried working with Lucifer or anything like that?

Yeah?

Absolutely, they all have different abilities. You would evoked them for different reasons, you know, Like you know, Lucifer the light bearing you know, like you would you would evoke him to shed some light on a situation, you know, and as far you know, so so in the Glaysia they have ranks. You know, they'll say, oh they're a duke or they're a demonic king, so you got to so you know that they're in charge of this many legions. Well, we don't know if that information is accurate or not.

Do you mean by that?

If you're working with the Goaisha, you would you would assume that this information is accurate.

Correct now, and.

Most of the Goaisias bullshit, Like the rituals in there, they're they're traps, they're traps for the black magician. Uh, never perform a ritual from the rs go Aisha. I'm not saying don't work with the spirits in there, with the demons in there. They are very real and they're awesome, all right, They're awesome to work with. They're your best friends, all right. But if you approach them in the way that it tells you to in that book, they are

That was done on purpose, Like yes.

Yeah, absolutely, yeah, that's what they did. That on purpose to kill black magicians.

Damn.

So you said this was Western sorcery as opposed to like more Eastern invading.

Yeah, like the Eastern practices are a lot more respectful.

Okay, that's I understand this.

Talking about this though, do you need to know the name of the entity that you're trying to call out or do you pretty much just throw out an open line and you say, I'm looking for something that could do this and one of them will respond.

Yeah, hell no, I'll never do that. You don't know what you end up with.

Okay, So you do need to know their name, Yes, I.

Like to have their name and their sigil.

Okay.

So with this being said, the Gaaysia is one of the only spots where you can find a list of their names.

Correct.

There's a few other spots out there where you could find them, but as far as one of the earliest sources and most complete list, I might add the Gaayishia would be that correct.

Well, well, it would be one of their names because a lot of these guys are in multiple different cultures throughout history, and their names change, like their names will vary, you know. So so one one person might call astof Aso. The other worst person might call Asteroth the goddess Astarte. So I mean, like like when you're when you're dealing with ancient gods, and that's what a lot of these

To, Okay.

And so to do that kind of research to make sure you're calling out the right name, right, you would look at you.

You have to do that leg work.

You have to put in that work to figure out this tribe called them this entity. This tribe called them this, The Westerns called them this, the Hebrews called them this, And you've got to make sure that you are calling upon the right one. So you are actually the one that is doing this legwork and doing this historical deep dive to make sure of this correct.

Yeah.

Yeah, And if if I have a doubt, then I'll call them by all their names. So all right, I'll write a conjuration with with each of their names you know, from from each culture.

But you also said they're sigil, So where does that come from?

Which the sigil is their energetic signature?

Right?

That's that's how I look at it. And it's when you open when you draw out their sigil and and either pencil lead and ink or or pencil it or ink something conductive and then you trace over it in your own blood. That's like making a phone call, all right. I'm like literally dialing them up, like you're on a phone. You're like, hey, you know, you're trying to speak to them through that gateway. That sigil becomes the gateway that

So does it matter what language you're doing the ritual lend? Does it have to be in Latin or Hebrew?

Or does good old English work just fine?

Good old English works great most of the time. But like specific rich is like if I was gonna look in a grim war and it gives me a specific conjuration, something that's been used for centuries to summon this being and it's in a different language, I'm going to speak it in that language. I'll speak the conjuration in that language, and then after I speak the conjuration and perform the summoning, then I'm going to speak to them in English.

Okay, all right, there's been a little Okay, I don't know, not necessarily disagreeing between me and Jacob.

We just don't know.

We've a lot of conjurations are in different languages, a lot of exorcisms and things like that are in different languages.

But would you also agree that most people that call themselves practitioners are typically wanna bees that are delving into the realm of shit that they don't actually know what they're doing.

Right, we can all at least acknowledge that it's not just.

To your cult. I say, like ninety percent of the Spirit's community, uh on all vectors, you know, all sectors, I mean, uh yeah, total are totally joke.

I would agree with that, but everyone starts saying that as far as Christianity as well. By the way, yeah, we're all here, I'm I'm keeping it one with everybody here.

Yeah, I think them are completely full of shit right on on every on every front.

Yeah, it doesn't it doesn't mean that one day it's going to click for them and then they're just gonna you know, like they could, it could totally just you know, they might be a joke now, but five years from now, they could start, you know, they could be At any moment, someone can like just get it and wake up and just go hard in the paint, you know.

So just start somewhere. Yeah.

Yeah, just because you're a joke when you're nineteen doesn't mean you're going to be a joke when you're forty.

You know.

That's a fair point. That's a fair point. But then also I would.

And I don't know, I'm very glad that Jonathan.

Asked this question.

Let's say you are calling upon a Greek god or or something to this realm or ancient Egyptian deity, right, it would stand to reason that you.

Would want to call upon them.

If you're gonna, especially call them by that name, by their Egyptian name, or by their Greek name, or whatever the case is. You would want to also conjure them in the language to which you're addressing them, right.

Yeah, if you have that information, if that information is available, which most of the time it's not gonna be. Yeah, all right, So it's one of those it's.

One of those things too, like if you're speaking English and you're and you understand the language really well, so you're able to put that much more of your intent in there, compared to like reading a bunch of words where you're not even sure if you're saying it right, and you're not even sure what you're saying. You know, in a situation like that, you know, I'd say, just go with what you're what you're good at. That's what I go with.

What works.

What also kind of leads into what I was saying, right, A lot of these people might start spitting some Latin out. They don't know what they're saying, but they know the book says to say it this way.

Next thing, you know, they've absolutely opened a portal or opened a door or speaking to something, and now they don't know what the fuck to do because they just called U point, they stepped into waters that they didn't know what they were stepping into.

Yep.

Well, and that's what it's really exciting. That's what separates Yeah, that's what separates the black magician from the dabbler.

It's the best way to learn, you know, especially for guys. You know, guys we learn from making mistakes.

It's just you know, you.

Could tell a guy not to do something dumb, but he's not gonna know not to do that until he does it. It's just it's just the way guys are. So I think I think the more trouble you get yourself in and you get out of, you know, like one of the best ways to get good at magic is to have people curse you. You know, like, if some asshole puts a curse on you, you're gonna get so much better at magic having to deal with that obstacle. You know, It's just how it is, man.

You know. That's that's how I got good at bankful magic. Just I didn't just start out like, oh, I'm just gonna tackle these people I don't like. Like, no, I did like one YouTube video and the next thing I don't got people attacking me. So that forces you to, uh because better.

So YouTube was kind of your your stomping grounds as far as getting started in the realm of actual practical magic, aside from the wax foodoo doll when you were ten.

You say, YouTube, That's what you just said.

Correct, YouTube video is kind of what led you down on you.

And I was saying that that was what forced me to get good at painful magic and at warfare. Was being attacked. He was saying, you know when someone when someone attacks you and forces you to deal with it, it makes you a better magician. And so when you got to fight fire with fire when it comes to magic, and yeah, yeah, so so if you start doing the ship publicly, talking about it publicly like we are now, then you are going to be targeted. You're gonna be

Maybe they's gonna test you. You know, that's another thing someone just want to you.

Yeah, this keeps he's hot ship, but I can fuck him up.

Yeah, you know that goes g checking is a thing like, oh you a thug. Let's see how much of a thug you are when bullets actually start flying. That that goes around in the physical and the spiritual realm.

I believe that one.

Yeah, a lot of black magicians do act like gangbangers.

How that works, isn't it?

Little little clubs?

You know, they keep calling them cons and ship like, but why why do they do it like this? Bro?

Uh, it's the tribal mentality, I guess, I don't know. Strengthen numbers and see what if you get into it with one of those people, the first thing they're gonna do is call their witch buddies all their black magic friends, like, oh, this motherfucker's attacking to us, you know, and they're gonna they're gonna try to gang up on you, you know which.

So with that being said, when you did get your start in the real mechanics of this right, actually putting real legwork in real sweat equity, and in this case, I suppose blood equity is in this conversation as well. Where did you get the training from? Was it strictly out of books? Did you practice under somebody who kind of trained you up in their ways?

How did this go for you?

Well, I mean the first person I actually learned anything valuable from was E. E. Cooetting. I found him on YouTube. I was, I was researching, I was. My ass was in a pickle. I was facing like eighty five years in prison for four counts of aggravated assault with a daily weapon and like some other charges for eating the dude half to death.

It was a pin, wasn't it.

They tried making a pan of deadly weapon in the fucking COURTSYSM, didn't they?

Oh?

Oh yeah yeah they They threw the book at me and I was defending my family. You know, it ended up all getting thrown out of court. But it drug out. It drug out for four years, you know, damn. So yeah, I lost everything, dude, I mean, fucking constantly feeding lawyers all my money and you know, losing shit left and right. It caused me to cause me to lose my job too. So that's what really fucked me.

So I was desperate, and I was.

Just like, what's the one thing that can save my ass that I know of. I'm just like black magic. I know it fucking works. I know it works. It's time to really dive deep. And so I started. I was I was working in an office with a computer in it by myself most of the day, and so I was able to listen to YouTube, and so I just started YouTube and everything I could find on ritual, magic, magic, demonic evocation, and eventually I came across his channel, you know,

Was just that was this in English or in the correct language?

Okay, so so that was in a demonic language. I would say a losh tite loge tolashe to and then I would say belile, come, delill come in English, all right, And then there was his his his end was it's roch to Bellisle, it's rod chant that over and over and nothing happened at first, But every time I said that out loud, I feel this this tingle, this this rush of excitement, like he's hearing you, he's getting closer.

Was that like telepathically the way he was communicating back to you.

Yes, but it was. I mean I don't know if you would have been standing there, if you could have heard it or not, honestly, but I mean because I was alone, but no, I could clearly hear him speaking inside my head giving me.

A manifested as well. Now, could you see him.

Yes, initially when he when he initially manifested absolutely, But okay, so I.

Was I was staring at I was standing out my driveway and I was staring at the street light, and as street light got bigger and turned into like it looked like a sun, like a flaming ball, and then it.

Took the form. It took the form of first the man's head with a crown, and that's that's when he started speaking to me. And it also took the form of three different animals. One looked like a female lion, the other one looked like a horse, and the other one definitely was an owl. And then it took the man's form again, and then it took all four forms at once. It looked like a seal, looked like a seal. And you know, at that point, I go inside and lock myself in the bathroom because I had a family,

And has Blile trained you and taught you absolutely or has he just kind of made the information more available to you and you had to do your own self discovery?

How how did this work?

Did you have like a full on conversation with him on a daily basis and that's who trained you?

Like, what do you mean?

I gave him permission to literally possess me for six months and teach me the stuff, so every day it was like a crash course in ritual magic from Belaw himself. Of course I read other books. I got other information, you know, things like that. Excuse me, I got allergies. Man, I was outside all day. But now I learned, like the rituals that I've created, they came from the ether, they came from the demons themselves. And so he would work with me for a while, and then he had

Man.

I'm not talking about you know a little bit of balls. I'm like, you gotta have fucking nerves of steel. You have to You're not. If you're not afraid of it, then you're just a dumb ass and it's gonna end up killing you, all Right. You have to be able to stand there and be as terrified as you've ever fucking been in your life and still have the balls to stand there and finish whatever you're doing, not run the other direction. And I don't know many people that

So you called upon him and you did not have a blood sacrifice, or did you?

I was the sacrifice?

You giving yourself a possession for six months? That was the sacrifice.

Yes, And that was a part.

Dedicated my life to this path working with him?

Yes, Okay, okay, So you essentially sacrificed your life for a deeper understanding and more power on earth.

Do you say sacrifice? You could say dedicated to too, you know.

I guess both. I guess these can be used interchangeable words. I know in this realm, we're talking about sacrifice. Meaning the death of that's not necessarily true. I mean, Hella, you doing this podcast with us, You're sacrificing two hours of your evening or however long this shit goes for to do this. So I mean sacrifice in that term. I mean it in a more broader sense. But okay, I see what you mean. So all right, where do you think? Said?

Sorry, I just got one one question real quick? Where do you think they are whenever you're communicating with them? Are they a in a place? Are they communicating from Hell? Are they communicating from the abyss? Is it just etherical beings?

Like?

Where are they in relation to your human body when you're in communication with them?

Right?

So, I mean if if it depends on what you're communing with, For one, if there are something that is still in a physical body, like I believe the watchers were, and they're still alive. You know. Some common theme is that they live in hallowed out caverns inside the earth.

You know.

So if you were communicating with a living, breathing watcher, then what you'd be doing is communicating with them with their consciousness. You know, they they would project their consciousness to you when you call them and interact with you, all right, So if it was a transdimensional being, then they would be on what ever plane that they exist on. If you're communicating with an et, then they're going to

Question?

So to follow up, as we are talking about sacrifice, and in this sense I do mean the death of an animal and using its blood for this purpose.

Why do they require blood?

You you said earlier it's to feed them, You're preparing them a nice meal. But then you also be mentioned about if you plan on eating this sacrifice after the ritual?

Is there?

Break all of that down for me here? Which kind of rituals would it involve?

You?

Sacrificing a chicken and then you in the physical realm, are going to be eating this chicken after the ritual. Why do the demons require blood to eat or are they eating of the meat too?

Just go down the list for me.

Well, if you're burning the body, if you're spilling the blood into the fire and then burning the body as well, then they are consuming the entire sacrifice. In some rituals, like especially like you know, like Santorian rituals, Vodan rituals, you know, they'll have a big party, you know, they'll summon pop Oligma and sacrifice an animal to him and then they'll cook it and eat it and feast afterwards, asking the spirit to partake in that in that feast

So whenever you're doing a sacrifice to a demonic entity, you're putting the entire animal into the fire.

Yes, Or if I'm doing it sacrifice to an angelic for the purpose of healing at a distance. If I'm doing it for the person across the country, then I burned the entire thing, whereas if they were here in person, then I spilled the blood directly on their body and feed them the bird afterwards.

So thists this is very interesting.

So I know where I live, I don't know what state you live in in Louisiana. If you are doing a sacrifice for a religious purpose or whatever the case would be, and there's multiple religions around the world, that claim that they are not talking to angels or demons but their deities, whatever the case.

Not here to judge or throw shade. But in this state, if you do.

Perform a sacrifice, you have to eat the animal afterwards. Putting the entire animal carcass in the fire is actually illegal by state law. So I wonder if there might be a little more some more knowledge that was, you know, the lawmakers themselves when they wrote that down and struck it into law. I wonder if they knew a little bit more on the back end of that of like, hey, if you're throwing the whole animal into this, there's only one kind of thing you could be to talking about.

I think that's exactly what's on their mind. And a lot of states, blood sacrifice during rachel is a legal period, right right, they've totally outlawed that in some states. Luckily, I did my research before I started talking about this shit publicly. I was in a state where I can do that there's no law against it, but certain states would lock you up for that. I mean they're not

But a lot of these people are trying to grow their group, so they'll put what they're doing on social media. And I don't mean to show how evil they are, like,

Yeah, I mean, animal rights activists can't really fuck with religion. I mean they could try. I've never had them come after me. They're welcome to if they want to, like have their entire organization destroyed. Bile means, but no, I don't get fucked with, bro.

But like the animal cruelty conversation, though, if you are doing this with a still a live animal and throwing it in the fire, and you're trying to put that up on I'm just saying for people that are not doing your particular brand of it, but there are religious groups out there that do things differently. Cruelty to animals is against the law, and I do agree with that to a certain extent, Like I understand that, so I get why the laws are put down in the way that they are.

But on the other side of that, there is.

A conversation to say that the lawmakers when they originally put down the laws had at least a decent working understanding of left hand path things. So that might be why certain states and certain countries even have certain sacrifices and certain types of sacrifices that are completely outright illegal.

Well, it's like in the US, you know, I free of a religion, which all this is covered under that and it's like, okay, well, we can't outlaw their religious practices, or we can't outlaw the religion, but we can outlaw their practices, you know. So we're going to make it illegal to be in a graveyard after dark because a lot of witches like to do shit in graveyards. It's illegal to plant flowers in a graveyard, not because they give a fuck if you plant flowers, because they wanted

Now, kind of circling back to my original question, why is it blood or life that is required? I've talked to quite a few people over the years that say that you can give your energy, your personal energy, into whatever you're doing, and it works just the same.

You don't actually have to kill an animal or whatever.

I don't have enough of a knowledge base to say if they are a little too hippie dippy or spiritual and they don't know what they're talking about, or if maybe that's just the type of thing that they're doing. Why do these entities require actual physical blood?

Okay?

Well, blood is spiritual currency. As to why that is, that's just the way the universe formed, man, I don't know.

Well, in your research, you've done your digging into a lot of this stuff. So from what you found that, why is that the spiritual currency?

Uh? Okay, Well, I mean you know, even Christ said the blood is the life, So I guess the blood is the life. And you know that's that is the life force energy that you are feeding. Now, you don't have to chop the head off a rooster to get results with magic, all right. You can use your own blood or put your own personal energy into it. I find that it's best to offer whatever you are capable

Lot of them do.

Bro.

I have seen social media influencers that are currently locked up and it's like, bro, how the fuck are you posting?

How do you have Wi Fi? But yeah, I'm with you.

Yeah. He put me for consultation, wanting me to give him a a crash course and how to perform ritual magic inside of his cell, inside of his prison cell. He's like, you know, I can't sacrifice the chicken. I can't do this. I can't do that. I was like, well, I know you got a fucking razor for cutting pickles laying up in there. Cut yourself off of your own blood. You got a pin in the paper, Yeah, draw the sigl and blood it yourself. You know, that's that's as

Okay, Now let me ask you if I may a little bit about the actual mechanics themselves of a ritual. And I understand that the situation dictates the type of ritual that you're performing, the type of entity that you are calling out to. I get all of that, but just break this down, and this might sound stupid. Are you wearing like a robe of some type. Are you using a very special like crazy curved dagger?

The fire that you're using.

Does it have to be made out of a specific type of wood? Like, yeah, I can't burn birch for this thing, but oak oak I could use for this.

The altar does it have to be made of stone?

Or it could a regular table with a cloth work like just random things like this that you see in movies. I'm just curious for the rituals that you are performing, the ceremonies that you're performing to what level do you take it with all that?

I don't do anything for show, anything for aesthetics. When I perform these rituals, I wear jeans and a T shirt. I have a table that I lay my cloth over, you know, my rituals, my magic circle.

Does it gro a plastic table or yeah, yeah, okay.

Plastic table? It folds up. That's That's what I set all my ship on when I'm doing a ritual. So, I mean, I'm not going to knock people for wearing robes. I mean, like certain you know, rituals, it's considered to be formal and respectful.

M what about the dag or the knife? Has that got to be a specific type.

I use a song, machete.

A saw, and a machete a sogg the company. Okay, I'll about to say, bro, what kind of sacrifice you need a saw for?

Holy shit?

I got I got to yeah, yeah, don't to. And like I said, to each their own, each system is different, each each person has their own personal brand of practice. Me personally, I don't play dress up. I don't need a special dagger. Anything will work. If I didn't have a machete, I'd use a kitchen knife.

You know, do the entities see that as disrespectful? Though? Right?

Like you said, when you have a guest coming over, you clean up your kitchen, you do things a certain way. The entities that you're calling out to, they don't see you as disrespectful because, oh what, you couldn't even clean yourself up. Bro, you couldn't even you couldn't even dress appropriately to address me. It's is it not like that?

No, they're not gonna expect me to, like, you know, wear a robe or a suit and tie. I do clean myself. I take a shower before doing most of my rituals.

You know, is that important or is that a personal preference that's a personal preference, okay.

I mean what if I have to do a ritual for for something and I just happen to be dirty, you know, like like you, I mean, if I have time to take a shower and clean myself up and smell than I will. But I'm also not you know, having sex with these things. I'm giving them an exchange to sacrifice in exchange for for what I'm asking you. And you know, you can play dress up whatever whatever helps you get in that mind state, go for it.

Singer of Ghost and Ship.

Yeah, yeah, Like I don't like to knock anybody else's practices, all right, but if you're spending more time playing dress up than you are doing the actual ritual, then I mean there's a problem there in my And the reason magicians war hoods and robes back in the day was

Does that also work? Now?

I'm glad you brought that distinction carrying a gun as opposed to carrying a sword. You said earlier, like you have to have an actual physical sword on you, and I do medieval fighting, so swords and axes and shit. I am here for I personally think we should bring back carrying swords as a regular standard procedure for a proper gint. Okay, that's just me, though, But I also believe that you should be carrying a weapon at all times, pistols and whatnot, because we live in a really fucked

All?

Right?

Well, first of all, I have both you know, I have my ritual blade that's in the circle. I'm not holding it. They're wearing it the whole time. But now, I mean, I I hate the gun. Is uh, It's equivalent to wearing a sword. It's a show of strength depending what you know.

Sound like you're gonna use it.

You're not gonna shoot the demon or even stab the demon with the sword if he appears.

That's not what it's for. It's for the showing of defense.

Yeah, and it's mainly for the weirdo that sneaks up on me in my backyard while I'm doing a ritual. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, but but I mean it's wearing a gun versus wearing a sword. I don't see a difference.

Now, I also want to ask this.

You brought up having your ceremonial sword inside the circle. Now, there are some types out there that believe that once you get to a certain level of power, you don't actually need to have a physical sword. As long as you think within your mind that you have a sword, then it's equate.

It's an equal thing. You're saying that you actually have one physically. Is this?

Yeah, but it's it's a necessary tool because I have to chop something's head off.

Are you, Oh, so you're using the sword for that purpose? Or by sword you mean shady.

Yeah, I mean, I mean it's I mean, it's a song. It's it's like a Roman gladys.

I'm with you.

But but now, whenever I was referencing wearing a sword, that was that was something that was written in the Book of Smoke with Fire and several other books talking about working with Jin. You know, it's like they recommend that you wear a sword when working with Gin, and I'm just like, well, wearing a gun is just as much of a show of strength. You know, that's a modern day sword.

I'm with you, And like you said earlier, Jin Demon, is it really different. I personally agree with you that there are no differences between the two. But there are those that practice magic that say that you need to have a sword.

There needs to be a shield.

There's a few like items that need to be on your table or on your altar. Right And I'm not in a position where I could say that this is or is not bullshit, or to say that as long as you have the thought process in your head that you have a shield or a sword on your mental table for your mental ritual or whatever. That's what I'm saying, where is the the lies and the true truth start to finish?

In your opinion, I think.

It just depends on the ritual that you're doing, the type of ritual, and the system that you're working in, you know. So let's say I'm gonna I'm gonna pick up a random grimoire about some type of ritual magic, could be anything, and it gives me a list of tools. I'm gonna need this, this, and that. Well, I'm going to go into that ritual. If I'm going to follow those instructions, I'm gonna follow them to a t, you know.

So that what what he's alluding to is I always mentioned the book called The Magickian written by Philip Cooper, and that's basically going into a ritual space having the sword and the show the chalice and the shield and stuff like that to be able to almost use as symbols within your mind and stuff like.

That, like to carry out that kind of ritual.

I don't know if that would be necessarily for sacrifice.

Yeah, I mean if honestly, if I wasn't going to chop the head off or rooster, then I probably wouldn't even have a blade in the circle with me.

Okay, makes sense.

Do you just out of curiosity?

Is there any level of like, do you pay any respect to the animal that you're about to sacrifice?

Or absolutely, the sacrifice is basically worshiped up until the point that is sacrificed, and it's done in a completely humane way. They get as much food as they could possibly eat, they're happy, they are treated well, hell of a lot better than the slaughterhouses treat animals. So anytime somebody comes at me about oh, your sacrifice and animals, I'm like, do you eat meat? And they're just like yeah, I'm like, well, shut the fuck up.

There.

Those chickens you're buying in the grocery store or treated a hell of a lot worse than my chickens. My chickens are treated like royalty so you know, if you're not a vegan, then you can kiss my ass. And if you are a vegan, then you're a pussy. And I don't give a shit what you think.

Yo.

Are there are there vegan demon demonon types of people, not that I know, I feel like they're always.

I feel like they're out there vegan magicians. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah.

So how are they performing these sacrifices if they're vegan?

What what are they're not? Are they sacrificing pumpkins and shit?

Well?

Not all the time are magicians sacrificing.

I'm talking about this level of magician, not just people that claim that they're like we talked about earlier. There are those that claim that they're practicing things that they don't actually know what they're stepping off in. And there are those that are diving deep into it for their practical purposes.

So like, what do the vegan sacrifice?

Uh?

Well, first of all, those people are usually like really fat and really poor and really lonely. They don't get results from their magic. The white people, the white lighter people that would frown on animal sacri Yeah, they they're they're usually pussies.

Heard that, heard that? And I can't necessarily disagree with that either. I think most vegans are.

I say that, there's only two exceptions that I know of, and they're dudes that I serve with. They're not pussies, but they are vegans and they're I don't understand that.

The possibly a vegan in the army, dude.

Marine Corps. Yeah, in the fucking infantry of all things. I don't understand in the Army. Oh fucking yeah, there was no way a vegan and not starve.

They went vegan after they got out.

I should mention that, okay, but even still, like bro, one of them is a competition powerlifter, and I'm like, how are you getting enough protein and you're a vegan. He's like fucking pumpkin seeds, Dude, It's like fifty four grams per half cup. And I just eat that ship like it's going out of style. And I'm like, you gotta be fucking kidding me. But no, the results speak for themselves. I think he's crazy. But also I can't argue with the boy. I mean, look at him, but anyway.

I like nothing but me, dude, like carnivore through.

And through carnivore diet is clearly the way to go. Yeah, yeah, anyway.

Okay, talking about these things here some out of the box conversations. And I don't know if you're about to shit on this group of people or not, but.

I am curious.

What is your take on sage when it comes to practical magic.

Like like burning white sage. Yes, I do that on occasion, if I'm cleansing a house or doing exorcism. Yeah, I'll burn white sage. There's something that my you know, I grew up around, you know, my family. My mother did that, My grandmother did that. You know, I don't. I don't burn sage during my evocations. But if I'm like, I'm like, all right, the energy is thick in here, I need to cleanse my house, then yeah, I'll hum agate with

Yeah, when you clean your house, did it looks a lit writer?

You know?

So why don't you use sage in your invocations?

Because the spirit doesn't prefer it usually. I mean, I mean if if if it was working with an entity that said yes instead of incense burned white sage, then I would do it. I've never had an empty as asked for that. I don't recall ever reading in a grim more were specific spirit wanted that. That's usually like a spiritual repellen, you know, right, Yeah, No, I'm not trying to anything. I'm trying to call the darkness.

In heard that. So you also mentioned incense.

What type of incense are you typically using or is this also runs the gambit depending on what that particular entity ask for.

It does depend on the anentity. Uh. Most of them like dragon's blood, some of them like coppol copal lavender is the great one. I used that one a lot, and sandal wood usually can't go wrong with sandal wood, So sandal wood and dragon's blood probably what I use Mostlile fers frankincense, you know, So I'll use franknsons when I but I mean, if I don't have frankincense, then whatever I have I'll use. Okay, I've only had him complain once. Like I was, I was doing a ritual

I use that incense. I love that ship, all right.

So I stuck in the ground, you know, lots of sticks around the fire. Let him on fire. I evoked thelile and I'm in the middle of trying to make the petition, and I hear him say, clear as day, this instance smells like shit. I'm like what he's like. It smells like shit.

Like makes sense that a demon does not like frankinsense and mirr for the record out loud, that makes perfect sense to me.

Yeah, but but frankinsense, pure frankn sense is what he prefers. So it was like that fused with the murr, and so I go, I grab one out of the ground, like yeah, it does smell like ship when it's burning. So I'm pulling it all out of the ground, chucked it out in the woods, and ritual without incense because that was one of the only things I had at the time.

So are in is incense a requirement or is that just kind of a as needed type of thing.

I mean, I mean it's it's it's appreciated, you know, like if you have it, great. But now, my first new vocation I did, it was zero tools, no nothing, no sigil, no incense, no nothing. I just knew the name of the entity and the demonic in and the chant to initiate spiritual packs. And that's that's all you need, if that's all you If I was sitting in a prison, tele hopefully I'll never in one ever again. Uh but uh yeah, I can evoke a spirit without any tools if I had to. But if you have the tools,

What type of what type of wine?

Usually red Burlow, sometimes some peno Gressio if that's all I got in the fridge, but usually red wine.

Okay, they don't fuck with white too much.

I mean I've never had one complain about white wine either, But I mean I prefer red bur Low myself, So that's that's what I use.

Yeah, I make yeah, that is.

I make moonshine just for that peron, but it's just for using magic. I just make my own moonshine, which I recommend everyone doing because it's stupid easy. Anyone can make movie. Dude, It's it's so easy, dude, It's it's ridiculous.

Yeah, and then behind is easier, though, I will say that at least when you make your own shine, you have to like build your own steal your own coil.

It's not rocket science, but it takes some doing, you know.

Yeah yeah, but uh, I just have an electric one.

Oh you got an electric still? Hell? Yeah?

Yeah, you know, because I'm not doing a lot.

I don't.

I don't drink really so but yeah, I just I just finished distilling a batch.

Yeah, no doubt, but every.

Everyone should learn how to do it. I feel like especially magicians man like moonshine is pretty cool to have around.

Are you using the hearts and or are you just using the hearts or using the heads and the tails of that run as well.

I'm using a sugar wash, so so I'm basically using the whole thing.

Oh yeah, so you're not worried about the points, what the beginning or the nasty he pits at the bottom of on.

On a on a setup this small and with a sugar wash, it's not an issue interesting, you know. And yeah, so it's awesome too because you know, like as I'm making it, I'm blessing it. I blessed throughout the whole process. Every time I do anything, like to check it to see what percentage is at everything I do with it, every stage of the way, I'm blessing it. So it has like this really strong magical potency to it. And then yeah, you can use it as a libation, use

Now on the same conversation crystals where you out with them now, I don't Again, I'm not trying to shit on people, but also if that does happen in this conversation, then Okay, I don't know to what realm dark practitional magic goes as far as crystals are concerned.

What is your take?

Crystal is a tool, you know, we put We put crystals in some of our radionics machines. Yeah, that's a yeah, I mean that's a Black magicians use crystals too, just

I don't like death energy.

Dirrect me if I'm wrong, But a dead body has no more energy to give, right the energy has been extracted from them at that time.

Not necessarily break this down for me. Yeah, death essence, dude, that's a you known nechromatic sorcery A lot of the cause or doing rituals in the graveyard surrounded by dead bodies. That's because the idea is that the graveyard and that earth is saturated with death essence, especially the older the graveyard and better you know, where the coffins have rotted away and the flesh is actually you know, in the dirt.

Yeah, so magic ones are real.

Yeah okay, but could you build a house without a hammer?

You know. And the thing with magical tools too, they get stronger and smarter the more you use them, just like radionics machines, you know, they get concentrated with energy. And same with like a room, like if you just do magic in one room of the house and that's where you do magic, especially if it's a room just for doing magic, a bona fide temple, like like after a couple of years, that energy it gets so concentrated that you can just do anything and get really solid results.

So it's like cast iron, the more you use it, the more season it gets, the better it is for cooking exactly.

And I like using cast iron and magic.

So in magic, all right, for what purpose? Break this down?

Like you know, like burning my petitions and stuff like that. Mostly for that purpose to make sure something doesn't fly off. But like like downstairs, that's usually when I work with like more infernal spirits, and I have a little cast iron pan there. It's like at least fifty years old. I don't know how old it is, but it could go back to the seventies. But super nice. But yeah, you know, I'll put my petition on piece of paper, put a drop of blood on it, light it in

Okay, all right now, kind of going off topic, but still in the same conversation, right, what is your opinion on Alistair? Actually, no, let's start from the beginning. Let's start, let's start even more current base. What is your opinion on anton Levey?

My personal opinion, yes.

In the realm, not of him as a human being. That I mean that's subject to open interpretation here. I mean as far as the things that he wrote down, the things that he believed, the movement that some would say that he started, and as that pertains to what you do for your work, what is your opinion of the man?

All right?

I mean, well, obviously you know, I didn't know him personally, has a pleasure to meet him or anything like that. I know they marketed Satanism is like like they were like atheists and they all devil's an archetype. We don't really believe in demons, We don't believe this stuff like that. But but antonona A still performed like curses and ritual

It's also important because you know, it's nineteen sixties, so I can see him being more of a theistic and more of a spiritual Satanist and then framing it as an atheist just to make it more palatable for nineteen

You know.

So even though like a lot of like the atheistic Satanists, I consider them a joke, but you know, not to be a dick or anything, but I don't mean especially what it's devaulved into now. They're just like basically boot liquors for the system.

You know.

There's a bunch of fucking cuts as far as I'm concerned.

And that's why I asked, because most people have talked to that at least dabble into the realm of practical magic in the left hand path, and things cannot stand lovey, I mean hell, he by his own emission, says, the biggest.

Evil you can do is masturbation. Like his words, not mine.

He's basically saying like, oh, you think you're so evil, but you don't even have the balls to spit in God's face by spilling your sea, which is the ultimate evil pussy And it's like, I.

Feel like you missed a couple of steps there, my guy.

Right, the French called the orgasm a little death or a tiny death or something like that.

Right, mort Yeah, but I mean even still, it just it always felt weird to me that that was what he considered the ultimate evil sacrificing animal. That's cool masturbation though, that's the fucking kicker.

Boy.

It's like, I feel like you're an early Inceel.

And like you said, a lot of people say that he was a grifter because at one point in time it seemed to be all about the showmanship and all about the money of it. And you know, I just didn't know if y'all personally had a take on that situation.

Yeah, well, I just think it's like one of those things, like it or not, the Satanic Bible was extremely important.

Okay, fair enough.

Now, Actually, earlier today we brought up Edward Kelly and John Deep.

We're going there in a minute. Hold on, I want to ask Hi about Crowley. First, we're starting, then we're going back. Okay, I gotcha, Yeah, Now, next question, Alistair Crowley.

What is y'all's take on him?

Good Barth?

All right, Well, uh, another one of those guys like him or love him. He was really important. But uh, you know, uh, I wouldn't trust that guy alone with children.

At point.

You know, do y'all believe that he was practicing real left hand path magic?

Yeah, especially later on when he got when he became like a drug gaddict and uh, you know, and him and a bunch of his friends were just like super degenerate at that time, and they were going like really hard on transgression. Uh. And yeah, I think Alsta Crowley one was the real deal for sure, There's no way around it, you know. And then you also got to think, you know, because he brought yoga to America, is like one of those guys that really brought yoga to America,

Yeah, so you just said, some guy talked about the drugs and the the djin of it all, right, why is that so endemic to those that operate in the left hand path? Not one hundred percent rule by any means, but it seems like that is a vibe that goes along with that culture.

Why is this?

It's a pitfall, man, And it means the same with musicians and rockstar culture and metal heads. You know, like how many metal heads look the same lifestyle rappers, you know, Yeah, and a lot of it is from the do as will. A lot of people have like a misinterpretation of it, and I kind of use it as a just to be excessive, you know. But here's and here's the other thing, you know, because because a lot of people do get into magic, are like musicians and artists and stuff who

You know, no doubt.

But a lot of metal musicians also they're doing it for the aesthetic. I feel like a lot of them are not actually dabbling in the dark arts. There are some that clearly some for sure, but a lot of it's just because like that's what the genre expects of them, kind of thing.

You want to hear some shit on that. Okay, So this this band was auditioning for a bass player, right, and they look like all their influences and what they're kind of going for, and it was all like like a cult and like blood magic and all this stuff. And then when I get there and actually start talking about magic and stuff, I could tell it right away that it was like, uh right, like it was too much, you know, it was too much for them. They're like,

I mean, I laughed it off, you know, but I get it though.

So you're saying that it's kind of a pitfall that goes along with this with the whole do as thou wilt thing, which does your both of you all's practice does fall in line would do as thou wilt.

Correct, I'm not I guess okay, So do as thou wilt does not mean do whatever you want. Yeah, that's the misinterpretation. I think you were talking about Byron. Yeah as hard as like, what what do I think about Crowley or Crawley. I think he did some important things to make He wrote some good things whatnot that have

Yeah, you would say that he was a true practitioner, correct.

I think he really did practice ritual magic. And I also think he was a sick, twisted weirdo that took it up the ass. And I like to put people up to you know, fun goats and slitting their throats and shit. Yeah, doing that with kids around, like.

Slipping drugs in their drinks and yeah, stuff like that.

We gotta be honest about what the character of that man. He made an awesome tarot deck us deck.

He wrote some.

Good ship, but he also rested really sick, twisted shit, and me personally, i'd probably executed him.

My biggest which I agree with everything you're saying, by the way, but I just my biggest issue with him is that if at least by his own emission, he was like the most powerful, he was the deepest into the darker colt and all these things. My biggest issue with that is that the Battle at Blyth Road would say that that's a fucking lie.

You gentlemen are familiar with this story, correct.

No, no, okay, so not really, but I know that he spent a lot of time in a fucking nursing home with a severe drug addiction. That's not powerful.

No, it is not. No, it is not.

So the TLDR of the Battle of blath Road, he was with the Order of the Golden Dawn. Later they became all right, find cool things. Is before he found it the Lima and all that came a little bit later. This is the early nineteen twenties or late nineteen teens, I believe, and it was in England, and you know, he had a falling out with them because there was already a big schism going on with Blovotsky and her Eastern methodology to things and.

Forget the guy's name.

It was an Irish guy and his more western esoteric thinking of things. So there was already kind of a schism going on between the Order of the Golden Dawn, and he decided he wanted to take the reins, and everybody pretty much told him, bro, shut up, like you're not even close to the top dog here, relaxed.

So he goes off.

He does a bunch of incantations and spells, and you know, I think he actually did some sacrifices and all these things. He decides to go up to the main temple of the Order of the Golden Dawn and he was going to start casting some curses at these motherfuckers. So he gets there and all the top dogs happened to be there. He made sure it was on a meeting night, so

And kept stomping him until the cops came and pulled him out of there.

I have a hard time believing that if he was such a hardcore dark magician that he would have been so easily roundhoused and shit, especially if he was in his moment doing all the things right.

So, I don't know.

I think he was personally a massive piece of shit, and I also think that that's what he was doing. He was like doing it for the purpose of being a massive piece of shit.

It was also a human though, you know what I mean, Like, so is both of them.

Then they both practice these things.

Well, a roundhouse is going to take out most people.

To me, yeah, other of them have claimed that they would be able to do a force field around them. Neither of them have made such a claim, Nor am I saying that they have. I'm just saying they're like, yes, they're both real human beings that are really performing these dark arts. Crowley was a real human being performing dark arts. I think he just took it to a level to where it was like, bro, first of all, calm down, just just calming on down.

You know. Well, if I'm in if I'm in the circle doing one of my rituals, in all of my glory, and you can whack me in the head with a hammer, I'm still gonna go down, you know. So, I mean, and where I think you went wrong is I mean, that's kind of a pussy ass move. If I got a problem with you and we're in the same room, I'm gonna rip your face off with my hands. I don't fuck curseing you to your face. I will use curses on people and I can't physically get my hands

Okay with you, But is there not a curse that could be done in such a way, like almost in a movie esque type of way here of like you like throw a curse at somebody and it fucking hits some Harry Potter style. Do these types of things exist or not at all?

Okay?

Well, I know a magical command word to give someone a panic attack, and you would use that on them in person. You just look at them and speak the word and it induces fear and terror as far as like dropping somebody killing them. I've heard stories about magicians that could do things like that, but it obviously didn't work for Crowley, and I haven't figured out how to do it yet. But I've never tried to do it either. If I'm that close to you, I'm'll punch in the face.

Men heard that.

One thing I want to say about it, though, is like, one hundred years after the fact, a lot of people are still under the influence of his magic. Yeah, what do you mean now, Like like a lot of people, like even all the Truthers still talking about him, you know, all the Croley fanboys still talking about him, all the things he's set in motion. I mean even the whole like hippies, you know, sixties, seventies and eighties, nineties, you know was also a huge a decade for Croley. I mean, yeah,

By that, you mean like people are still talking about the ship that you did.

Yeah, and and the stuff that he's set in motion is still at.

Work today, like some of the spells and incantations that he did.

You mean, yeah, like a lot of the stuff that he set in motion is still at work today, like.

Still keeping them alive in spirit essentially.

Oh yeah, was that too?

Yeah?

I mean you're talking about like at this point, he's practically a deity or a demon or whatever, you know, like you could summon him and work with them at this point. You know, imagine how many people are feeding his egg after his death, you know. So, so I mean he's he's almost deified at this point, you know. I mean he's up there with like George Washington.

Okay, now, Byron, I heard you say Gore, So you absolutely believe in these things?

My boy? Do you believe in them as well? Yeah?

Oh yeah, you can create it in a Greg Goork. Yeah, it's a thought for him.

So you do believe that you can in fact manifest a agger Gore or a Tulpa in that.

Yeah, that's a good term for it. Yeah, that's possible. I believe that.

Okay, what about Golams.

I don't know. I've never I mean I've I've researched it. Have I thought about doing an experiment trying to make a gom Yeah, I've thought about it, but yeah, I have no idea if it would work or not.

Lord Byron, your thoughts on Golam.

I look at it as just a servatory. And yeah, I have a bunch of servators. Yeah, I got a bunch right next to me.

Making a man out of clay and the magic symbol and its animated.

Yeah, and I doubt that's that's what's going on. I'm sure the the golam is just a servator, you know, I guarantee, because the you know, like like in the one story with the Rabbi, the golam just sat in the corner, you know, and then and then they just kept feeding it and feeding it and feeding it.

Okay, So you're not of the belief that a golam a clayman with the sigil or the Hebrew words on the forehead, whatever the case. You're not of the belief that this thing will actually like animate itself and come to life, not in the way that the legend suggests.

Yeah, well, it's still gonna come to life, and it's still gonna finish the job it has to do. It's just not gonna, you know, the physical clay vessel isn't gonna move around. It might move a little bit in your temple, you know, you might you know, notice it over here, you know, but just.

Not in the literal physically moving kind of sense.

No, No, okay, I don't think so fair.

But the servatoris are one of those things where I think a lot of people should should get into that. You know, they're not as strong as Yeah they're not as they're not as strong as like something like Belile or prime On or something, but they're still some cool sif you can do a servators. A servator is an artificial spirit. Yeah, it's basically just.

An artificial spirit that's marvel here in the servatory right here, baby, So Edgar Tulpa, you're you're using that's servitor.

Yeah, you're you're you're you're creating for that specific purpose, and you can turn it into aniggard by having other people you know work with it.

Gotcha, gotcha?

No, but uh but.

Yeah, servators are great. You know, I think in uh, they say it's advanced, I wouldn't really call it advance and someone someone could probably make pretty effective servatories after like a year or two doing magic if they're you know, had a study practice.

Fair enough, all right, now going back into time Edward Kelly, John D. What is your gentleman's opinion on these two individuals? Me and Jonathan were having a conversation about them earlier. I actually Jonathan did a little bit of extra research before, like in between shooting earlier and shooting now. I have a whole different take on Edward Kelly, but I want to hear their opinion first and.

Whatnot.

Not well that but Edward Kelly himself, honestly, But and then I guess second tier John D.

I'll get to that in a moment.

But first, gentlemen, what is y'all's take on these two individuals?

You know, I don't know, man, it's a weird story. Who knows, because whenever you go back in time that far, it's who knows how much of it's even true? I don't know. It's it's it's pretty weird, you know. Like everyone thinks Edward Kelly was like a like a like a scammer. You know, he defrauded a few people. Some people think he lost his ear from ripping some people off or something. I don't know, man, But the whole like wife swapping thing, definitely gets a little weird.

And but you're hitting the nail on the head. I didn't know any of these things before I did some research. So, JS, what is your thoughts on these two individuals.

I really don't know enough about either one of them to give an opinion. You mentioned wife swapping. They were into that.

At one point, Yeah, I think so.

So. I think Edward Kelly kind of hustled that. I think he was like, oh, yeah, the angels they so that's pretty much what we're gonna do tonight, right.

So I don't I don't respect people that swap wives.

Fair enough, okay. So, and for the record, it's not like they were into the swinger thing. It was allegedly a one time thing. And let me all right the breakdown this. So John d very famous polymath, dark magician, occultist, all of these things. He was in multiple royal courts for his ability to do alchemy and sorcery in things of the like, right, and he was well known before Edward Kelly ever came about. Then Edward Kelly hooked up with him and was like, Hey, I like the things you're doing.

Let me train under you. We need to work together.

And at first John d was kind of like, ah, I don't really know your credentials ain't exactly credentialing at this time. We'll see how it goes, but I'm not exactly going to bring you in under my wing. Right cut to they both are under the uh they're in the court of Rudolph the second, which was a Austrian and Bavarian king. We would now call that German, but he was a part of the Habsburg dynasty. They later

But whatever, whatever.

Then because of this he came up with the Anochian alphabet and the Anochian language completely. He was the only one that could even have this because he just like had the gift cut to one day. And keep in mind to your point that you made Lord Byron, both him and John D's had both of their ears clipped because they had already been caught in fraud from years past. John Dee was able to kind of restore his image in the court of the royals, but he had a rough art.

We'll leave it at that.

Edward Kelly was also a known hoaxer, which is why he had his ears clipped. But whatever, and there are some that say, oh, we had his ears clips because he was practicing alchemy and that was an evil science and that's why it was clipped.

But if that was the case, then why was he being invited to the royal courts? If they knew that he was evil?

Why would the kings, who were ordained by God to lead be bringing these guys in. So I think there's kind of a weird, not understood sentiment there. But moving on, he was doing his scrying and he came to the realization that the angels told him that John Dee and him had to swap wives for whatever practice that they were trying to accomplish. John Dee believed him hook line and sinker and told his wife.

His wife apparently wept for half an hour or a quarter of an hour over.

This, and then after about five months of getting used to the idea, they finally made.

A wife swap thing happen.

This led to John Dee completely severing all ties with Everard Kelly, and he ended up ousting him and telling him get the fuck out of the court of King Rudolph, because I got shit, I'm actually working on here and you're full of shit. He goes back to England and gets put to death because he continued to grift and lie on all these things. But there are so many people that believe even though again known fraudster, even the

Bro.

I don't know, I personally have no dog in that fight, but it sounds very much of the Levee and the Crowley realm to me, of like maybe they were accurate to some degree on what they were doing, but I also feel like a lot of what they were doing was more for the hype and to stay in the good graces of the king.

I don't know, Yeah, it sounds like dude tricked his buddy and the lending fuck.

Is yeah, that's totally what. But uh, you know, it's hard to say, you know.

I mean, so.

When it comes to magic, to the person doing the magic, it's like this really profound thing, you know, like you know, that feeling when you and your you're like a teenager or something, you and your buddies like eat some mask it or eat some mushrooms for like the first time, you know, and you guys have this huge profound moment and it's almost hard to comprehend like how profound it was. But if you're to see like a camera of what they were doing all day, they would just be like

Well, and also, like the idea of scrying, I would understand why somebody would say, well, I'm the only one that can see this thing as I'm scrying, because it's scrying is you're not necessarily seeing something manifest in the crystal ball. You're using the scrying mirror or the ball or whatever as a tool to be able to almost gaze and put you in more of a meditative state in order to be able to comprehend.

So it's basically just like how fast you can get a download. Yeah, yeah, it's.

But do you all believe that Edward was actually scrying or was he grifting and just doing enough things to stay in the good graces of John D's. Because I'm not saying he was the beginning of scrying by any means. I will say that a lot of people that get into scrying start referencing him because he was one of the more famous guys to do and start writing.

Yeah, it's it's hard to say, you know, because it's also like it if he was decent at scrying, you know, like I don't know, because like a lot of people practice crying, you know.

So so so it's possible that he was actually pretty decent at scrying and he was.

Still hustling, so to be true at the same time.

Yeah, you see what I'm saying, Like, and then it's just like how good you are at scrying too, you know, like because you can you can go to like three different tarot card readers and get three different readings for the same question, right right.

You know, I get this.

I just I got a hard time wrapping my head around this. I find it to be the same as if and I know this is not an apple to apples comparison here, but bear with me. Let's say that you got this pastor over this congregation, and he's been there for ten years, bro, and he has been slaying it.

Right.

He is on one, he is walking with God daily, all the things, all the stuff. Then you find out that he's been having an affair, you know, on his wife for the past eight years. But he's been saying really good things for the last ten years. Though all of his sermons are great. It's like, yeah, well, I'm not going to listen to a fucking thing this guy says, like there's no way.

Although yes, his sermons were on the money, and.

Like, if you were to listen to it on YouTube right now, man, that was a great sermon, a great message. He is a piece of shit, So that kind of detracts from everything else that was said about him, right.

Yeah, totally totally. And here's another thing too, Like let's say he couldn't scry. You can still get divine messages as long as you can tap into that stream of consciousness, you know, So even if he wasn't like a real scrier and he was pretending describe, you could still get something legit.

Out of that.

So a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then is what you mean, yeah, basically almost.

Think about it, like you've played sports before where you've gotten in the zone, right, Like I've played football and fighting, right, Like, there is just something magical about being in the zone. You don't make a single wrong move, you are seeing it before it happens, right, But what if you cheated on your wife before that?

Does that mean that you can't get into that zone?

Physical prowess versus the statements made by a guy?

Okay, to that point we're talking about altered mindsets is essentially what I'm trying to say. It doesn't matter if you're good or bad, you can still have these kind of revelations of sorts.

To your point, think of like Toby maguire, your boy was a home run hitter. Come to find out he was using steroids and cheating Mark McGuire.

That kebe MacGuire, spider Man.

What did I say, Toby.

Yeah, I meant Mark hole fuck gs my bad, my bad, Mark maguire. It detracted from everything. And oh but he said all these records. Yeah that's getting ripped from him now because he was a piece of shit. Well, I mean steroids were illegal, so yeah, this is my point.

Physically, they we're all doing steroids. So I think it's kind of fucked.

Up Semissa and all them, right, I mean, but my point is though, yeah, he was one of the greats until he was and when it was more discovered. Same with this whole scrying conversation, or with a philosophical or a pastoral or whatever the case is. They could be one of the greats until you find out that there's something going on there and it detracts from everything else.

That's how this works.

Well, it takes away from their validity, but I don't know if it takes away from you know, maybe their own personal experiences.

The thing is, like, nobody wants to sit there and listen to someone preach about morality and how they should be and live their lives from from someone that's doing the opposite, you know. So so you being a pastor if you're fucking around your wife.

You know, the same could be said.

You have no business being a scrier if you're already known to be lying and trying to do all these other things.

At least I'm not going.

To listen to you if I know you're a liar, if I know you're a fraud, doesn't mean that you're not telling people something right once in a while or real once in a while. You know, you could be a really good preacher and and and be screwed around on your wife or diddling kids or that's what most of them seem to be into, at least the Catholics anyway. The Southern Baptists they like the fuck young girls, and

Yeah.

The same could be said for Satanic temples and Satanic groups in general.

The kids, bro, why is this? Stants do not fuck with kids?

Wait, what do you mean? There's all kinds of example caught.

There's there's there's turds in the punch bowl for sure.

Yeah, they're not real Satanists.

Yeah, well that yeah, that's a non secretar almost. Yeah, I mean it's there. There are people that are into six ship and they take the transgression too far, and then and then you have the phenomenon of the multi generational abuse cults like we have out here in Utah. And uh so, these people it's it's almost you know, you can't even hate these people because they were born

You understand, dude, that hurt people, hurt people. I fully understand that. That's not an excuse though, like the chain of events has to stop with you.

You gotta be.

Yeah, I'm not I'm not making excuses for I'm just saying it's what happened.

No, I agree, but I mean, even to this point, I tell them how Satanists don't diddle kids. There's rituals that I have looked into because I heard this and I was like, there's no way that's accurate. There's rituals that involved taking the virginity of someone under thirteen years old to perform it to its completion. So I mean there's absolutely precedents for this written down in Grimwalds.

Yeah, and human sacrifice and all of that.

Yeah, absolutely human sacrifice, which people don't.

Did human sacrifice from way back when the Nordics would do human sacrifice, but it wasn't against their will. They willingly had to step up and claim that they wanted to be sacrificed.

There's there's levels there, I get it.

Or if it was like maybe enemies that you conquered, yeah.

Well that's yes, that did that at least once a year. But I mean there's levels to this.

So I think people underestimate how sophisticated like satanic panic propaganda is or was, you know, and what the real purpose of it was, And it really Shishka Bob the brains of like anyone in the old community, like metal heads, goths, magicians even like wickens and stuff and new agers. You know, like they think everything is a Satanic panic. But but I look at it, like the whole when Q was going strong, I worked in a bar where there's a

You know, Q was an online things. That makes sense.

A lot of the older conservative crowd don't know much about the online world.

This.

Yeah, but so I mean, if QAnon was a sigh of which I think it was, and none of the conservatives out there have ever heard of it, but all the ship lips have and they have a strong emotional attachment to it. What do you think, who do you think they're really targeting. I mean, it's multi faceting, they're targeting multiple groups, but you know, it definitely affected the one group a lot worse than the other.

I think you're on the money with that one. Honestly.

I'm not saying Q was honest one hundred percent op or a counterop or whatever, but I think you're on the money as far as one side of the political spectrum. Listen to everything he said so that they could have a retort. The other side kind of knows a thing or two that was said, but not really because they wanted to paying attention for the Q drops because they have more important shit to do, like you know, go to work and ship.

Yeah, you know, and a lot of the truthers have been around for a while. I thought it was a siah from the get go, you know. And yeah, but I don't know, you know, it doesn't mean there's not truth in it.

Yeah, And I don't know when Ember said that Trump, Jizhuping, Vladimir Putin, and Kim Jong un are all secretly a part of a cabal to bring about the end of the New World Order.

I'm like, okay, pump pump the breaks, big haws. We gotta talk about what the fuck you just said? What dude?

As soon as soon as I heard like, trust the plan, watch the show, I was like, fuck you.

Real rhetoric, like to me bro right away, you know.

But you know, anyway, it woke up because, you know, because some of the people that woke up through that, you know, were kind of normy. So woke some people up. And then after they figured out he was a psio, they found you know, and COVID happened, so they started getting the medical thing. So they woke some people up.

I hear that now.

We had at one point in time, getting back to the conversation, At one point in time had a former Satanic high wizard on the show, right, and he's been making his rounds on multiple podcasts, and he talks about a lot of the types of work that he would do. Right, They had very high end clientele that would hire them to perform these sacrifices and incantations to further their political means,

A lot of people are saying he's full of shit.

A lot of people are saying that he is absolutely truthful start to finish.

Don't know.

He is saying that a lot of these not just satanic as in the Levey type, because I don't consider that thru Satanism.

Like we said earlier, that's the eightheist Satanist. It's basically just like edgy gnostics. They're just trying to go against the grain to like ooh, look how edgy I am. But anyway, it's not the point.

I look at it like it's for little kids. It's like a stepping stone, It's like training wheels for little kids, you know.

Fair.

Fair, So he is saying that in true temples that are practicing left hand path dark Satanic arts, they have women that will be ritualistically bred of their will. I should add, they want this to happen so that they can become pregnant, so that this baby at the time of birth can be ritualistically sacrificed while they're still halfway in the birth canal. He said that he himself performed over four hundred of these for the high end clients of the wealthiest of the wealthy one percent elite.

On this he's lying, he's lying. Break this down for me. What break this down? Why is he lying?

I'm saying, I simply don't be leave him, and I don't believe. I mean, there's a lot of a lot of former Satanists that you know, claim to have this amazing redemption story, will come on these podcasts and tell all these stories about all they were a member of the Order of Nine Angles and they used to sacrifice people that they would abduct. No, they'd be in prison. They're full of shit.

Now there are a lot of members of the Order of Nine Angles that are in prison as a matter of fact for doing these things.

Well, then okay, then they must have really done something, you know, So this guy is full of shit.

I said, if you take Satan out of the equation, you just look at John of God down in South America, that Oprah Winfrey was supporting and the Clintons and everything. You know, he had his own like little breeding thing going. And I'm sure he was practicing human sacrifice as well, because when you have a criminal element, here's the thing would you charge for, like a blood sacrifice? JS.

I think my cheapest rituals like eight ninety nine that includes the sacrifice. I've got more expensive ones.

So you know, there there are people in like Africa and Latin America that are living off a buck or two a day, and they understand animal sacrifice, blood sacrifice,

Look at what happened with Epstein Island in the temple there that wasn't for su I don't believe personally anyway.

So you know, so let's say you're a European aristocrat. What do you think that would cost in the Third World to have someone do a human sacrifice?

Not as much as it was in America.

Yeah, totally. You know, you're talking about parts of the world where twenty dollars bill can get.

Your throat slit for sure, you know, for sure.

Now with that being said, we're talking about how you sacrifice chickens, right, And I'm sure a goat has made its way to the altar at one point in time or something.

Actually that's on the Yeah, that's on the list.

Man, like so much. Maybe it's so hard to do it to a good if I brought home.

A small goat fall in love with it that quick and.

Oh, I know, I know, dude, fair enough, fair enough. Imagine seeing like a baby goat playing with the French that you guys have. Yeah, you know, I mean, that'd be like the cutest thing on the planet.

Probably it would end up being a pet.

But this being said, right, so, the more blood and the more important, the sacrifice, the heavier and more important that the ritual would be, and the better the result, one could say, would not a human, especially a pure human baby? Would that not be like the best sacrifice that you you could ever like get your hands on.

Okay, I'm not saying that the elites don't do things like this. I'm saying that the Satan or Lucifer or Belisle, they are not accepting baby human sacrifices. All right. That is a practice that is practiced by the people, the same people that are shoving religion down our throats.

Correct me if I'm wrong, though, Bail and Belile and all of them, they had altars for child sacrifice in Canaan, and they had found the pyres for them to No, that's not I suppose that's an understood thing, the same way that the Aztecs did child sacrifice to the rain god.

Oh were they sacrificing children? Were they cutting adults hearts out?

No? No? They did adult hearts, yes, but to the rain gods.

Specifically, they would throw a baby into an oven, and the louder that the baby would scream, the more pleasing it was to the rain God.

This is the same thing that was happening to Mullick.

This is the same thing that was happening for a bail and Belile and all these things.

This is understood historical facts.

One of the big hiccups that I could see with doing a sacrifice like that would be a karma blowback, you know, like there's gonna be some resistance to like doing a human sacrifice, I imagine.

So we believe in karma as well.

I believe in a form of karma, but there's still gonna be a spiritual resistance to doing I would imagine, especially if you're sacrificing something against.

Their will, you know, Like I am assuming the chicken doesn't want to die. I mean, I don't know, but I would.

Assume that the chicken is not like super soaked about dying today.

Yeah. Yeah, but it's still a chicken, you know.

Like like I'm not saying that animals have souls. I don't personally believe that, but a lot of people do. I don't know, you know, but but I would.

I would imagine when it comes to human sacrifice, there's gonna be some resistance to it. So you would have to have some type of practice to negate that resistance. You know, because to me, it makes sense that there's gonna be like a spiritual resistance to harming a child like that, some type of karmic blowback, and you're gonna have.

To uh.

Have a have some type of mechanism in place to negate that, you know, or to minimize it.

My personal experiences, these demons, at least the ones that I work with, protect children. And I'm not saying they wouldn't accept the human sacrifice. I'm saying they would not accept an innocent child as a sacrifice. I think if you tried to do something like that in the circle with bill Ale, you'd probably ended dead shortly afterwards.

So at what time did they stop accepting them?

Well, the greatest sacrifice that you can offer, say, being like Shimiyaza, would be a full grown pedophile.

Okay, all right, they're not gonna want a child.

And personally, they've never asked me to harm anyone. It's usually me asking them to harm pedophiles. For me, like somebody's in I can't get my hands on him, that's when I would utilize like a death curse or something like that.

Explain that to me, though, I'm not trying to take the side of these disgusting pedophilic people. I think they should all be tortuously murdered. I'm with you one hundred percent here, But we are talking about the left hand path. We are talking about entities that operate in the realm of evil.

By a moral standpoint. If this is a pH scale.

Right, and like, the neutrality would be like a person who's never done a baby would be the neutral zone.

They've never done anything.

I personally, I personally don't feel like I'm operating in the realm of evil. I think I think evil people do evil things and find excuses to do it. They do it in the name of religion, you know, they do it in the name of you know, they can do it in the name of anything. It's like, you know, you like that satanic cannibal guy, I forget his fucking name. Yeah, And the FBI was like, no, he's he's not. He

So there's all kinds of people that have done evil in the name of God before, and I'm with you on that. But at the same time, we can at least acknowledge that there is a side of light and a side of dark. Right, there's a side of good, there's a side of evil. Yes, I understand that we're putting human terms to these sides, But like I was saying on the pH scale, there's a side of the base and there's a side of the acid, and both

Well, that's that's what I'm saying. I'm saying demons don't support pedophiles. They hate them. Just as much as I do.

Yeah, most most black magicians. Because we were just talking about like ritual abusing human sacrifices. What I do want to make it clear, like most most black magicians kill pedophiles for fun. They're like target practice. You see what I'm saying. But the last thing, the last thing a child predator would ever want would be going have someone drop his rap sheet in like a black magic forum, because he's screwed. He's screwed. Man, He's gonna suffer and he's gonna die just like he should.

Like, we have nothing to do with people like that.

Yeah, and here's here's a here's a really important thing about doing it too, because you know, if you want to get better at like fighting and self defense, you can always like join the boxing gym, wrestle, maybe even

You have to take them to die.

Yeah, I agree, they can't honestly help it. Their wires are all crisscrossed, They're a little messed up, and you know, the longer they're on the street, the more risk there is for them destroying the other kids' lives.

If I just to clarify something real quick, the way that I feel like there's a there's a difference of perception of demons and angels and God and stuff like that amongst the different sides of what we're talking about. So Jacob, you look at you know, God, Jesus, there's that's the light. You look at demons, the devil, that's the dark.

Right.

And I feel like, and correct me if I'm wrong, JS and and Lord Byron, but I feel like almost that the demons and the quote unquote dark side are not necessarily good or bad, right, it's almost just like I mean, is electricity bad?

You know what I mean?

Like is Wi Fi bad? Is it just like a power source and energy source of sorts? Is that the way you kind of look at it.

There is no black and white good and evil scale, Like there's no line you can draw angels and demons and whatever else you want to throw, you know, the in the mix there. They have personalities like people like some might be considered to be evil or to do evil things. Other demons heal people. I mean, is that evil? Is it evil to just because it's a demon? There's no angel good, demon bad? You know? And most of the pedophiles out there operate on the side of good,

And when it comes to the whole like good and evil thing and all that, I look at everything as just a part of creation, you know, Like I don't think these like like like, let's just say, if you're to take like all of the stories from the Bible of angels and demons at war with each other and all of that literal, I think they're created for a purpose and and that's the parameter that they're operating in,

You know.

Yeah, I love alligators, man, I want one.

I wanted to throw off this quote too, because I don't know if it necessarily is black and white and good and evil and stuff like that, and what really, you know, caught my attention as far as that goes like I always like to mention Isaiah chapter forty five, verse seven, And it is and this is Jesus speaking.

If I'm not mistaken, it's either Jesus or God. Same thing.

It couldn't be if it's in the book of Isaiah.

But continue, So God, then it says, I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things. So is that all light and all good if you're creating darkness and evil?

Yeah, you mean he creates the day and the night.

I think we just have like an inferior array of understanding and peace and evil state. But every thing is a form of Everything's part of creation, every everything, it's it's an ecosystem, right.

And that's been a question too, Like if demons are there, then God created them, right, yes to that point, correct?

Yeah, right, I mean you are something or something He created created them, you know.

I mean you're saying, you're talking about light and darkness. I wouldn't call peace and evil light in darkness.

Okay, that's fair.

But yeah, so he did create the good guys and the bad guys if he is the creator of everything.

Right, Yeah, But it's like, are there are they even really like again, bad guys, you know, because uh, I mean, just just read the attributes of all the demons in the Goatian. Almost all of them teach like astrology and birds and Liverpool sciences and how to heal and the secrets of the heavens, the secrets of the earth. Like there's a few out in there that are you know, some there's some killers in there, but for the most part, they all teach beneficial things.

But we also agree that most of existence operates on a binary scale.

Oh like pressure mediation, no as in I mean one that's basically.

Light and dark, hot and cold of male, female electrons and negative electrons, like we can you know, everything works on a one or the other type of system. As far as our entire existence goes, there's very few areas of great A.

Lot of that is perception based, you know, A lot of that is perception based, though, wouldn't you say, oh so.

A magnet the north pole of it, in the south pole of it. That's just a perception thing. We talk about it all the time.

The Trojans that were going and raping and pillaging, that was seen as a good and pious thing. And nowadays it would be very frowned upon. So that's what I'm talking about as far as the perspective and times go. I mean, it's all about to the individual, you know, Like if my I don't know, my dream girl, uh cheats on her husband to come sleep with me, that's a really fucking good thing for me, pretty bad for him.

That's also a bad thing because if she's willing to chew and her husband to be with you, that should tell you a lot about our moral character.

And that's an inherent bad, is it.

Do we look at it exactly that way?

We really should, And if you don't, then that's a moral thing for you to figure out, big dog.

You know.

And I'm not saying that the north pole of the magnet is the good in the south is the evil or whatever.

That's the perspective based operation of it. Right.

If you want to say this one is good versus this one is bad or vice versa, we can at least acknowledge that the magnet's got two sides.

Yeah, so that on one side it's not the ones bad are good. Though the north pole side of the magnet is is healthier to be around. I would like to point that out, you know, and you can you can bury the north pole side of a magnet just a few inches down from a germinated seed, and that plan is going to grow twice as big, twice as fast. The sea will germinate faster. Uh So, so there the thing. But going back to the whole acid and bas it's metaphors.

But my point is there's not a third option. There is the acid or the base.

Yeah well yeah, but yeah, And that's a point though, you know, because if you want to say neutral is the third option, then fine, that's that's a conversation.

But not I.

Wouldn't uh yeah, but so that you know, the main mechanism in this realm is uh pressure mediation. Everything's trying to seek equilibrium. They just can't.

Okay, perfect example, either things are pressurized or they're in a vacuum.

Nothing is neutral.

Yeah, and yeah, that's what that's what I would say.

Yeah, maybe I personally feel like good and evil is a matter of opinion and perception, and each of us has a different opinion and perception about what is good or evil. It varies from person to person. So what I I think is is right and just you may very well think that it's an evil thing. And that's that's opinion and perception. There is no there is no scale or chart that classifies this is good and this

Killing versus murdering, I think, are two different conversations.

Also, though, yeah, I believe that cold blood and murder inherently is bad.

Killing somebody, Like, I could think of a few reasons why killing is necessary, but cold blood and murder, I think are Like there's levels to that as well.

Yeah, but then again, it also comes down to the opinion and the perception of the person and who's looking at the situation as well as the person who's committing the crime. You know, what I think is cold budded murder. You know, whoever's doing it, they might think that they're totally right and have a good reason to do that.

And just because I agree if like, if you say that something is good and I agree that that thing is good, doesn't necessarily mean that it's good all the way up through the the all the different dimensions, and all the way up through heaven and down through hell. Like that's just something that we would agree upon.

It, right, most most lip tards would sit there and argue with you, you know, about what good and bad is, what right and wrong is. I'm definitely not one of those. I'm a gun total and he'll Billy will shoot your ass if he.

Needs to know.

I do disagree with you on that point, though, I think that there is objective morality. I don't think that everything is subjective and up to the interpretation of the of the person itself. I think that there is absolutely inherent good and inherent bad, and yes, there are situations where there's more nuance to it, and you have to

I think that there's way more of that than we actually give credit for it.

You're right, and that there's lots of situations where ninety five percent of people would agree that's back, okay, that's wrong to do.

Okay, But aside from like the criminally insane that don't have operating brains in the first place, Like, okay, aside from these people who like, when I see somebody walking down the street, I want to bash your face in with a hammer, why doesn't everyone think that way? Okay, that's criminally insane, that's obviously not in the realm of conversation we're having, just so we all clear.

I mean, I think we can all agree that that that coblata murder is wrong, rape is wrong, things like that you shouldn't steal shit from people. You know, most people would agree those those actions are wrong. But when you're talking about the existence of the nature of an entity, of a conscious entity, like a demon or an angel, you know, like, is the Angel of Death evil? You know, he killed a lot of kids in Egypt that most I think killing children is evil, But but Christians would

Fair.

Can we can we agree that burning people at the steak.

Was fucking evils?

Okay? But your religion promotes that and most people that are Christians, especially conservative Christians nowadays, would be trying to burn people like me at the stake if they could legally get away with it.

I don't know, man, I think I think Christians are pretty harmless, especially compared to like Islam.

I've seen so much chat and forums and troll saying that we should still burn them at the steak.

There's a few out there, even that one guy, Andrew Wilson, said that he would shoot us in the back if he could.

Yeah, So to that point, I'm with you.

Now, I'm not gonna say that burning everyone at the stake is wrong. There are some people out there who have committed some very heinous crimes that I believe burning at the steak is too good for. Gonna be honest with you, but again, I don't believe in making the rule for the minority. I believe in making the rules for the majority. Right, That's just how my brain operates. That being said, I am also, yes, I'm a devout Christian, not a very good representation of one by all fucking

To hell for exercising those freedoms.

But I'm not the guy to cast that judgment. I am a human, I am a center. I am just as imperfect as everybody else. Okay, that judgment is for a whole other person, a whole other deity.

I am not that deity. I'm not gonna pretend to be that guy, so I don't.

I try my hardest to withhold judgment from people because especially because I have no fucking room to judge anyone.

Man.

You gotta treat people well, they'll treat you well.

And I'm like, brother, they will behead you for half the shit that I've heard you say on a regular basis. Nah, bro, you just don't know what you're talking about. And it's like, all right, dude, we're never gonna come to an agreement. But my thing is he is one of my best friends because whatever he is saying, although I vehemently disagree with him, I know that he truly believes it. He keeps it one hundred with me one hundred percent of

And I'm not gonna step in the way of that for you. Now.

I might try to have conversations and come to an understanding. I might try to incite some wisdom in you. You might try to incite some wisdom in me, and we might get to a point where we have to agree to disagree. That's fine, everybody's entitled of that shit too. But I don't believe that somebody should be outright burned at the stake or murdered or ostracized or you know, demonized lack of better words, excuse me for.

Their beliefs, whatever those might be.

Unless it's clearly like somebody of a psychotic nature that believes that like raping children is a good thing. Like, no, no, I will cast the judgment on that one, fuck you and the horse you rode in on, right, But for the vast majority of understood religions and philosophies and belief systems, yeah, you could just disagree and not instantly say that, oh well, you know, it's fine, you're going to hell. Like, first of all, who the fuck are you to cast that type of statement?

But anyway, anyway, I'd like to say though, like I believe an objective morality for sure, yeah, you know, And I think of the whole like moral like relativeness and all that stuff. I think a lot of it, you know. I mean, of course it's like postmodern, but I think a lot of it came out of the theory of relativity, you know, where everyone where nothing's real, everything's relative, and I think that kind of spilled into like the whole

What do you mean on that? Break that one down for me?

Einstein, I'm not like a super Einstein dick writer by any means.

But that's that's a bold statement. Break this down for me.

Well, he was brought in to replace all of physics with a bunch of incoherent psychobabble to try to solve a problem that they a crisis they were having when they couldn't measure the rotation of the earth.

Yeah.

Fair, fair, But then his most of his theorems have been proven to be correct, some of them have been disproven almost all of them.

All of them have been disproven, dude, all of them, all of them, right down to the very core that the light speed is a constant, that's the entire like framework for his thing. And it doesn't. Light travels way faster from east to west than it does from west to east. And then that increases the more the higher up you go in altitude. Uh, it'll it'll decrease if you're like, like, let's say you have like a laser

You know.

That's that's fair. But let me ask you this.

The first person to ever try to calculate the speed of light. I forget the name of the guy, but they conducted an experiment. They were off by a fucking long shot, but they also didn't have the instrumentation even try to get close. They were doing the best they could with the information and the technology that they had, and everybody accepted this to be truth. Later that was blown out of the water. Would you call them frauds.

If they're being sincere I wouldn't call that a fraud.

You don't believe I'm not being sincere no all so.

Absolutely wasn't sincere No. No, he was. He was propped up. He was put there to, uh to do a job, and he did it. They got propped up. Yeah. Intriating, Yeah, totally so. And uh yeah, you know it's that's a whole rabbit hole, man, And that's something that takes like six months to a year to really research and understand the whole thing. But the history of relativity, the Michelson Morley experiment, you know, measurements of Dayton Miller. Yeah, you know,

Wow, Okay, interesting.

You know, I did want to get back to this though, because we were trying to to define a line of good and evil and I feel like we were almost trying to look at that through a human perspective. But does our human perspective automatically paint the rules of what these uh, let's just say, for a lack of a better word, etheric beings would call good and evil, you know what I'm saying.

Like, I feel like maybe the rules are a little bit different.

And that's why, you know, you can have an angel to carry out a lot of the same rituals that a demon would if these are just names that you

That's a good question. I'm definitely gonna call on an entity who specializes in whatever area that I'm working in and trying to affect. I have had them tell me no, didn't really get an explanation, whether something they just didn't want to do or didn't agree with what I was trying to do. Maybe maybe not, But I don't think they look at things from the same perspective that we do. And yeah, it all still comes down to opinion and

I'm glad you brought that one up. So we had a friend of ours, New York Patriot, Loving to Day. He was a former member of OTO, which also I'd love to get your opinion on OTO as well. But he was talking about the type of magic that they were doing, and we even asked him that question. Let's say that you are doing because he is a he left the organization and he is a big proponent of how everything of the dark and the magic thing occult. You're obviously drawing upon a dark and evil source to do it.

And we asked them the same question.

Let's say that you are performing a ritual to heal someone of cancer, right, a loved one, and you it's you're not getting anything for yourself out of this, because he made that clear. Most of these rituals that at least he was a part of, you were always doing it for yourself. It was a very selfish thing that you were doing, and that's the only way that it could work. And we're like, okay, so hold on healing practices, right, if you're doing this for somebody. Your mom's got cancer,

Not ours?

You're still giving of yourself. You're still giving your blood or something like that. So no matter how you spend it, you're still putting your essence into it.

So yes, it would still be selfish by nature.

Your thoughts, my thoughts, I would disagree with them. Yeah, And me personally, I don't give not even one little half of a fuck what anyone thinks that about what I'm doing. If it's good or evil or right or wrong, I only care about what I think. That's it. That's the freedom of being a black magician. We don't have to give a shit, all right, as long as I don't have an issue with it and I'm willing to do it, then hey, it's right by me.

And I also want to say, though, it's a lot easier to be a good person when you have the power to be a good person.

What do you mean by this?

But you can call yourself a good person, but but like, what do you actually do that's good? You know, when you're when you're able to save people's lives and work miracles on people, you know, like, like, to me, that's being a good person. Like when you it, it's sort of like, uh, let's say, uh, how can you be a generous person? Or imagine how much more of a generous person you could be if you were rich? Sure,

But being a really good gift giver does not necessarily make you a good person.

I do hear what you're saying though.

It doesn't though, But what I'm saying though, is like, when you have the power to be a good person, you have a lot more outlets to be a good person.

Yes, but would you also agree that you.

And you learn temperance and you learn temperance because let's just say, like someone kind of is a good person, but what do they actually do? You know, are they just like sitting in their living room? You know, like you know, because there needs to be some action to really be a good person. It's more like a I mean, just take like a fighting right, Uh. Anyone can be talented at fighting, you know, anyone, but you know you

Person almost like it's all like it's all like good. If we're trying to define what good actually is, is it just the lack of evil? You know, like you can't just look at it that way, not necessarily because you can sit there like all right, for example, like to bring up the thing that he just said, basically, if you just sit on your couch and you do nothing to nobody are you and you never get up off your couch.

You even that's evil. You didn't do anything evil.

No, but you're also not doing anything good. Stagnation is bad.

Stagnition is bad. But uh, but you know, going back to fighting, you know, like how how how many Like when people get up to like a black belt level, do you think they're going to bars and picking fights? You know, some of them probably do. I mean, you know, it's pretty rare, but some of them probably do, you know, especially they're like twenty five, you know or something, hanging out some some of their friends on a full moon.

Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson would disagree with you.

They were both champions who objectively were bad people. They may have been become good people later on, But Mike Tyson, when he was like at his prime, he was threatening to like ask, fuck, guys, I'm a fuck you too, you love me to the guy before he bought them, So you know there's levels to that.

But I hear what you're saying.

That's the nature of the sports. Same with like wrestling. Wrestlers talk a lot of shit too, you know.

But that's why.

Mike Tyson actually did get convicted right back in the day. People forget that. Why doesn't he get canceled? Why does the mean too movement go after him?

Yes, but to that point also, I would argue that every single person on a daily basis gets presented opportunities to be a good or bad person. Yes, to your point that, yes, if you're a multimillionaire, you have more of an ability to like leave extra large tips and to be more generous and like, that's the opportunity that's been presented to you. If you're a doctor and you're a heart surgeon, you have way more opportunities to save a human life than your average Joe blow.

I hear you, one hundred percent.

I'm not disagreeing with that, But I would also argue that if it's anything from how you interact with somebody, how you speak to somebody, to putting up your shopping.

Cart when you go to Walmart rather than leaving it in the middle of the parking lot.

And I'm not saying that leaving it in the spot is evil as opposed to putting it in its area, which is inherently morally just and probably I'm saying there's levels to this, but I would also argue that every single person gets presented with opportunities to make choices every day, and if you not, and you are being staggnedant just sitting at home and being an inceell, then that's inherently evil as well, because stagnation luke warmness is not accepted in any fucking realm.

That's just me.

We're I feel like we're trying to define what good and evil is according to higher level beings. Bro, it's a different story. I feel like.

We're so we can only operate within the human quantified realm because that's where we happen to live, right. But it's like saying that humans have to abide by the laws of physics. It's like, yeah, because we live in the physical world. My boy, No, I agree with you.

What I'm trying to say is is that this whole conversation really started by trying to determine what kind of power angels and demons have and do they operate on the same levels of good and evil as as we perceive good and evil. And I don't know if it's necessarily that cut and dry.

And like I said, I think they're like forces of nature and they were created for a purpose and that's what they do.

I mean nature it is a psychopath. Like they said that the doctor in the World Wars Z movie tried to break it down, you know, explain how like nature is psychopathic by its own you know, like like when when a dog eats her own pups because you're starving to death, Like I mean, is that evil? I mean if you eat, if you're a human and you eat your baby, then yeah, you considered really evil, all right, But like, like the same laws don't apply to animals,

Yeah, but this is also the thing, right, This is why. And again I'm not saying animals do or don't have souls. I'm not gonna be able to make that determination, but I will say animals operate off of instinct. Humans operate off of our thinking brain. That's what separates us from the animals. So like, there's no such thing as an evil deer or a morally upright deer. They're out there doing deer shit, which is completely operating off the realm of instinct.

I mean there's a lot of humans that are strictly operating off of the Yeah.

Most most criminals are behaving like animals.

Yeah, criminals. Yes, I'm humans that we don't want in society. That kind of furthers my point.

And most people operate and they're motivated by fear. If that's not animalistic, I mean, if you really think about it, like most people, well, I gotta go to work so I don't lose my house, I gotta I gotta treat you know, it's it's most of the people I have met are are motivated by fear more than they are by love.

I would say, So that.

Is an individual personal dilemma.

Then if you're living your life strictly based, like fear based. I'm not saying you shouldn't have like fear of certain things, obviously, but like if you wake up every day scared shitless, then like that is a that's a personal problem, dude.

I mean, how many how many Christians do you know that are Christian because they fear the repercussions of not being a Christian.

We've had this talk before and again there's a difference between the face they wear and what they actually feel in their innermost thoughts. And I understand that, and I will never know what these people feel in their innermost thoughts. But the vast majority of Christians that I know, and again, of all different types of denominations, I'm not putting one

But that's the first thing that you get threatened with when you tell someone you're not a Christian is hell yeah, those people. I think ninety five percent of the people sitting in church are sitting there because they're fucking scared.

I will say this most of your I would I only want to say ninety five percent.

I'll be generous in.

Say ninety percent of quote unquote Christians cannot tell you the last time they.

Open their own fucking book.

Yeah.

All they do is they go.

They are the routine attendees. They listen to mister pastor man.

And I'm not saying that every pastor and every priest is on some bullshit.

But I'm also not saying that they are all batting a thousand by any means either. If you claim to be about this life, then you better know the standards of what you're talking about rather than just regurgitating what the pastor told you. That's like going to a chemistry class every day for ten years and then telling me that you're a chemist. Okay, can you break down the basics of a chemical equation or you're just regurgitating whatever your fucking chemistry professor said.

There's levels to that.

Yeah, but there's always that loophole. Well, we're all sinners, nobody's perfect. I'm not saying you need to be a perfect Christian.

I'm saying that if you're gonna claim to all right, if you're gonna claim to be an expert in weapons but you don't actually go to the range, then I'm sorry, you're full of shit.

Yeah, that's a good way of looking at it. And I think, you know, it's it's important to do work, you know. And I think a lot of people, especially like uh, you know, people that are call themselves spiritual but they don't really do anything, or like you know, or even like Christians and followers like that. I think there's work you have to do, yes, and uh yeah, you know.

So it takes effort, dude, And that's a that's a whole thing that I feel like so many Christians like negate to realize. He told you to put on your spiritual armor. Jesus told you if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. But these people think that this isn't a fucking warrior stepping into He told you to stay strapped or get clapped in the physical realm. I don't know what part of that sounds like it's an easy ride.

I don't get it.

But so many of these people are about like like like, in my opinion, Christians need to start learning, like I mean, how to clean your aura, how to remove curses, how to remove negative entities, you know, how to purify a home and a space. You know, like like these are like really basic tools that I feel like everyone should learn how to do, you know, And how many how many Christians are hopeless if they're like like, let's say someone comes over to your house and they have visible

Do you do?

You know?

I believe in the power of prayer above pretty much all things, just as speaking personally.

Power of prayer will work. You know. It's better than nothing, you know, but you still need to know what you're doing, you know.

Yeah, I mean I'll give you that too.

But I mean as far as like cleansing your house and stuff goes, I'm not negating that this is a thing that can take place by any means. But I also feel like most Christians that they are taking the if they bring the same level of seriousness to cleansing their home that they do to just going and regard to taking whatever the pastor.

Said, then they might as well just not even attempted. That's just my yeah.

But uh but yeah, you know, I mean, uh, learning how to do energy healing healing people. You know, even just praying over someone helps. But like when you when you actually learn the mechanics of energy healing, it's going to be far superior. And you can still pray while you're doing it.

Okay, yea. By energy healing, do you mean like reiki something like that.

I mean I don't do reiki. I just I just do energy healing. I just heal people when I when I need to, you know, or myself or whatever.

You know.

I usually work with the archangels associated with the elements.

Uh.

So I'll do like Metatron for ether, that's the only one I really add to it. But uh Raphael, uh with air, Michael and fire, Gabriel, water, Auriel and earth and uh and I'll go through all of those elements and uh and and heal the person and stuff and then fill them up with a white cosmic life. Anyway, it's a it's but I prefer using angels when it

Yes, you know, I would agree with that absolutely, you know, and then if.

You want to add one to it, bless it while you're cooking it, as you're cooking it, you know, every step of the way. You know. Like, yeah, people people think of like magic as being external and it's evil and all this stuff. But you know, people forget like spirituality. Everyone looks at spirituality is like an excuse to be lame, you know, when there's when there's actually like really cool stuff you can do with it. You know.

I love that you just said that, and I agree, although not everybody who's into spiritualism is lame, not all of them, well a lot of them.

I think you're on the fucking money, yeah, you know.

But but there's a lot of cool stuff you can do with it. I think people need to start just doing work, man, to start figuring it out and doing work. Because you don't have to, Like, you don't have to summon demons if you don't want to. You don't have to summon angels if you don't want to, but you can you should still learn. Like I said, how to clean your aura, how to do energy healing on people, how to remove negative entities, how to remove of a curse, you know, basic stuff like that.

You know, I mean, you feel like a lot of people don't even know who the fuck they are, So if you start talking about this level of like real in depth conversation, they crumble and just like don't even want to talk about it, regardless of what their background is.

Yeah.

And the thing is, it's pretty easy and it's pretty much free. Yeah, that's the other thing, you know, Like magic is a free resource.

As is as a spirituality.

Yeah, you know, going to the Bible, dude, Like, I mean, there's passages in the Bible you can repeat over and over again to curse someone. There's passages in the Bible you can use for protection, for healing, you know, the and then each character in the Bible you can summon and then they will answer your questions, they'll help you out. You can summon Raphael, you could summon David.

You know that being said, and I know we're getting We've been going for three hours, and I know that it's far longer than in this conversation.

Yeah, and I appreciate both of you for sticking through this.

I did want to ask one final question, all right, and and we may even have to get y'all on the show to do this even deeper and further, honestly, But I've heard both of you mention certain figures from biblical sources. I heard you mentioned earlier Key of Solomon. I've heard things be mentioned from Old Testament and some New Testament. Lord Byron, I think I know where you stand as far as what you believe as far as the Bible goes.

And no, I do not.

Mean do you believe in Christianity. I'm talking about the book itself and the the what some would call truth, what some would call myth js. What is your take on the Bible and the Torah in that realm of things, as far as the historical and factual truth behind it?

All right?

I think that there's probably a lot of stuff that's true in the Bible, and I think there's probably a lot of stuff that's bullshit. And that's pretty much what I've found to be true about every grid more religious book that I've studied. I mean, I study all religious and I digged through the system and try to find the gold within this system. So I mean Jesus gave curses in the Bible, like Byron just mentioned. You know, have you ever heard of dusting your feet? Right?

He saw about when you leave town, dust your feet off and keep walking.

Yeah, and that city will suffer the same fate as Sodom and Gomora or whatever it says. It's actually a band practice in Christianity because it was considered to be so so brutal, but it was. That's a curse that you could use to destroy an entire city, all right, And so if you use the Bible like a grimore, like a magic grimoire, then.

That's a technology.

Yeah, it's very easy to siphon through that and find the shit that works, the stuff that you can actually use. Do I think Abraham was a good guy?

Fuck?

No, you know, like like, do I think circumcision is a good thing? Let me ask you this. If a bunch of Satanists got together and say, you know, we're gonna start chopping the tips everybody's little little boy's penis off, you know, and the rabbis, the Jewish rabbis, they'll suck the blood out of the fucking thing after they snip it off. Okay, how is this acceptable? How is this

Yeah, And imagine how bad that fractures your psyche at that young of an age because they strap you into this cold table, defintely helpless. You don't have your parent, you know, and and having at such a young age that there's no way you can really do like shadow work and really work it all out, like it just fractures you, you know.

Yeah.

Fair, fair, So that being said, as far as that's what you mean, As far as like the bullshit that can be found in the Bible or what you claim or what you believe.

It, yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of stories in the Bible that are probably made up to give you examples of morality and things like that or what they proceed to be morality. But also think a lot of things in there troop too, Okay, So like historically, I mean, yeah, I think Moses was a real person. And you know whether or not Noah built an arc or not and put two of every animal on it.

Yeah.

It also says you should do whatever your government and says because governments were appointed by.

God, yes, and unless they go against the word of God. There's multiple examples where the law of the land told the followers to commit this sacrifice or you'll be put to death, and they're like, well, we're not going to do that sacrifice. Because it's to a pagan god, so they would go against the law. So like it, you know, within the realm of acceptable behavior.

Yeah, but I really like, just to finish what I was saying there, I really feel like anything that rules you out of fear is evil.

All right.

That's my definition of evil. If it rules me out of fear or attempts to anything that seeks to dominate or control me is evil. And I revolt against anything that seeks to dominate and control me, that includes people and or gods.

That's fair very well.

Well, look, I mean we could, honestly, we could have this conversation all damn night. This has been so much fun, and you know, I love getting the different perspectives, and we appreciate you guys coming on the show and spending the night with us.

But there was some pretty fire tangents in some of the.

Yeah, there was Yeah.

Sure.

I was like driving on a road trip and I was listening to this, I'd like, damn, dude, these guys are these guys are dropping bars.

It was a good show, man. We appreciate you guys so much.

Uh.

I guess, well, if anybody wants to be able to reach out to either one of you, guys. I guess Byron will start with you. If anybody wants to be able to find you any of your work, where would they go to?

Sir?

My main YouTube channels at my apotheosis and then Lord Byron jest there all over case yeah, Instagram and.

YouTube gotcha, gotcha?

And j S Yeah. My website's jays Garrett dot net. Uh, Lord Byron here actually makes all our radi ONX machines that we sell.

Did I show you this?

No you didn't.

This is a super vampire box. So here's the regular one.

Here.

Here's this one, nice guys too, epjack to apo jacks super beefed up amplifier, beefed up power supply. Then also has these holes in it so you can hate it up on right above your altar.

Hell yeah. The other place you find is YouTube is called Hijacking Reality. You just type in js Garrett and that'll come up. So that's the two places. The website, my YouTube awesome awesome with two t's, yes, yeah.

With two tea's all right, and two rs? But is it two rs and two teas? And Garrett gotcha?

All right?

Yeah, we'll have both of those or all of those links down in the show notes below. Thank you guys so much for coming and hanging out with us. If anybody wants to be able to support the show, and the best way possible would be to go to Patreon dot com slash Cult of Conspiracy Podcast. If you do that, you'll have access to the shows a few days in advance. You'll be able to see all the video it is only posted on Patreon, and you'll be able to slide

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