Oh, friend of the are.
Hello, and welcome to the show. This is the Cult of Conspiracy and my name is Jonathan Jacob and today we have a very new guest, welcome to the show for the first time, Robbie Marks.
Hey, is it going pretty good? Man?
Robbie. It's pleasure to meet you there, sir. And you know you've had we've had a couple of your acquaintances on the show as well, with Teresa and the New York Patriot from the Occult Rejects, and they suggested that we have a conversation with you, so it would be it would be nice to get to know you a little bit. What are the kind of things that you specialize in?
Generally, I've been an artist for about the last thirty five years and kind of through the course of that, I've researched deeply into, you know, every rabbit hole you can think of. For the most part, just been kind of trying to have fun with it all and trying to learn, you know, as much as I can. Basically, Yeah, that's.
You're an artist. What's your medium? Usually?
Yeah, I do some pencil, I do pin and in work quite a bit. I do water color. I've done a lot of water color paintings, and then I had a screen shop for about I don't know, seven or eight years, and I'm you know, with that, I'm doing merch for bands, merch for festivals, different you know, T shirts and screen printed posters and just a variety of things. You know.
So how did being an artist it leads you going down conspiratorial.
So, I don't know, I've always been kind of conspiratorially minded, just because of kind of all like when I was in school, I didn't like school. I had a lot of problems with school. School didn't like me, and you know, I ended up you know, dropping out, flip flopping and moving around, and you know, ended up getting through college, graduating on the Dean's List with a degree in printmaking and uh drawing, and kind of had just taken my own course, took my art, have taken it out on
the road. I was on Grateful Dead tour, Fish Tour, String Cheese Tour, going into the festival scene, you know, and that's basically what I've been doing for the last thirty years.
Dead head there for a minute.
Oh yeah, yeah, the original you know, Grateful Dead with Jerry Garcia. Yeah, yeah, that was like five or six lifetimes ago, man, you know that.
Yeah. Yeah, So I.
Feel like those had to have been wild times back then because you hear so many people talk about like that time being a part of the Grateful Dead, like like following them, and no matter what city or state that they went to, it would just be like one massive community all like just partying together all the time like that. I don't know if you're going to see that so much for again, probably.
Yeah, yeah. And that was the thing. It was a place to go where you met all the freaks, where you had all of the different lifestyles coming.
You know.
You had like inner city hip hop kids, you had like country bumpkins, you had like just you know, the the white suburban, the you know, everybody was there, the old, the young. It was just like this amalgamation of of you know, all all the uh subculture of of you know, wherever you were. Yeah. Yeah, And it was also an opportunity for me to be able to you know, show my wares because I would just go around in like Gorilla nd and basically uh, you know, keep an eye out for the cops and the taxman.
You know.
So you were doing a lot of very trippy, psychedelic type of artwork at that time. I'm assuming that was when the watercolors really started to pop for you.
Yeah, I was, uh, well, that's the whole thing is I was kind of in this whole fine art kind of vibe, and I was like making my own art and selling my own art. And through the course of that, you know, different people, different bands, different groups started to ask me to do art, and so it's just been this expansive, kind of fractalne kind of career of you know, doing stuff for barbecue joints, doing stuff for I just
did a piece for Pink Floyd, you know. It's yeah, so it just depends on, you know, what's going on. Done some grateful Dead stuff, various bands and.
Probably one of my favorite bands of all time, to be honest with you.
Yeah, yeah, that's I mean, they are iconic in essence, you know. Yeah, And it's you know, I'm I don't know lucky that I've gotten to do a lot of this this various stuff, you know, over the years, and uh and and so through the core of that. When the whole pandemic hit, I had like eight industry jobs that I was working on the table, and the music industry just collapsed, so I basically had zero work, and the cannabis companies actually stepped up and I started doing
a lot more cannabis stuff then. But that was the point at which I had basically taken this twenty five thirty years of researching and going through all these books and decided to write a book which the editor is editing the last chapter right now, but it's basically a Nimrod the First skin Walker Let's go. Yeah, So that's that's what I and I'm doing illustrations for that now.
I'm doing thirteen illustrations for the book and then the cover and just you know, creating and creat and then come the end of June, I basically head out on the road for a couple of months and just go travel around and hang out and see people and have a good time.
You know, well, let's go.
There's the best life here, honestly. But it's off of twenty five to.
Thirty years of being in this line of works where you've been able to put yourself in this type of position.
Yeah yeah, I mean, and you know that's people are like, well, how do you do it? Because I've been going out on the road for thirty five years, you know, well since I was fourteen and I'm fifty three, so we're coming up on however many years that is almost forty, I guess. But it was always on a shoe string budget.
You know. I would go out the door sometimes with just a couple hundred bucks in my pocket and you know, count on fate and just roll and if you run out of money, you set up and you sell some art.
There was one time we were you know, we were we pretty much stuck out, got stuck at the Grand Canyon area, and I got a commission job and I got to sit on the edge of the Grand Canyon for three days working on this pencil piece for a couple that it was their anniversary and send it off and they sent me the money and we were back on the road. You know. So it's not a matter of how do you do it's just a matter you go do it.
You know, you were a straight up starving artist for a good chunk of that time.
But at the same time, that's exactly where you wanted to be and what you wanted to do.
Yeah, and I didn't have a problem with any of that. And you know, I pretty much. And that was the thing, this whole tour kind of situation. It allowed me to basically, you know, kind of move around the country and kind of just hoboed my way along, you know.
So yeah, well, I mean it sounds like you're quite seasoned for this kind of conversation then, And speaking of Nimrod as a potential, I'm hoping that I can get there on blonde. So I feel like the gray is going to take a little bit longer to hit me. But Jacob already got a little bit of it, and he's younger than me.
I got these these two gray streaks that are starting, Yes.
I got these black streaks that kind of continue down.
Yes, I'm hoping Hepper hits me hard.
Dude, I'm trying to look like a whole silver Fox fabio would be going on, getting close there you go nice?
So, uh yeah, the the idea of this uh Nimrod, and a lot of people within uh conspiracy definitely like to bring him up. We've heard him talked about in several spheres. But actually I don't really know a whole lot about Nimrod. I mean, I know he's a biblical character. I know that he's like mentioned uh. If I'm not mistaken. He's mentioned in like, uh, like Egyptian lore and stuff like that too.
Right.
Well there, if you go back and read the Old Philosophers, they talk about the fact that Nimrod is directly related with Osiris, and Nimrod is also directly related with Tamuz and with Donnis and with Addis. So you have all these and basically what it is is at the time, there's this developing religion of this dead and resurrected kind of God king or God man, and the whole Nimrod thing.
You know, basically in the Bible it says that he basically was the ruler over all of Shinar and basically you know, I found what was it six kingdoms and seven seas that he ruled over. So and you find this character and he's got like he wears the Phrygian hat that you see, like the smurf hat.
We literally just talked about that yesterday with Brandon Croll that like I've never heard that word in my life, and now two.
Days in a row that's so string so well, and that all goes to and all of this this Nimrod kind of this cult of Nimrod, this cult of the hero, which is where we get the row which became the royalty, the French Row.
So you have this tie between royalty basically linking them back to these ancient characters. And you know, and it's always to claim lineeded. You know. The Freemasons do the same thing now, tracing themselves back to taiir And and back to Syria and back to Phrygia with the Dionysians and the builders of Solomon's Temple from King Tayer, you know.
So it's but all that as well, even the Freemasons, they link themselves back into this Nimrod worship and and they say the first Freemason was Nimrod and he was basically they called him nim Ahmoud, and he was the one who built things, and he he created the first brick. He's also kind of linked in with the character of Cain because Cain he was working in these fiery pits, and that kind of relates into the cult of the blacksmith.
But they talk about the idea that he built the first cities and basically and then these walled cities once he built them. He's also tied in with Ferronius, who basically brought the people out of the wilderness after the flood and brought them to the fires to congregate, and then they got them to build the cities. And then once they were in the cities, you know, Nimrod was like, well, now if you want to stay in the city and be safe, you know, you have to ride for plunder
with me against all. So this is the beginning of like war and the age of Aries or the ram and and so he got the you know, Nimrods riding out and conquering cities and just crucifying kings alive. And he's doing all these things. And basically, if you get into the to the older philosophers, they say those two Nimrods, a younger Nimrod and an older Nimrod. The older Nimrod is interrelated with Thoth, the Atlantean from Egypt, and the younger Nimrod is the more Nimrod that people think about.
But he's the one that was at the Tower Babel that basically broke up the languages. And if you get into the Book of Invasions, which is this old Irish text that a lot of people think should be part of the Bible, it talks about after the collapse of the Tower, that Nimrod was basically over these schools that were teaching different families the different languages and then sending
them out to those lands to conquer those lands. And basically so you have, you know, this diaspora of global like conquered already, you know, like this how we have the New World Order now and this idea of them trying to amalgamate the you know, the entire planet into a single Novasoro s of Chlorum or you know, new World Order. Nimrod at the time was basically trying to do the same thing. So this, you know, and he's he's looked at is kind of a very kind of
sinister character. He was the rebeller who was rebelled against, you know, by his own people.
And also what the literary sources is itself, right, so like the Bible of course, is going to have him painted in a certain way. His contemporaries are going to
have him painted in a completely other way. So the biblical sources of him, you're looking strictly into the Book of Genesis, right, And yeah, he allegedly was the one who uh commissioned the building of the Tower of Babel right, And that's and everybody keeps saying the Tower Babyl like Babylon, and it's like, that's not It's not exactly a one Babel, right, And I mean, yes, we're talking ancient Babylon and all these things. It's kind of in the same can you know, time frame, but not exactly.
And Nimrod was also the builder of the temples in Babylon as well. He came up through as Babylon. It started out as this tiny, tiny little city that was kind of insignificant, and it's uh, it's it's like worshipful God form was uh Marduke, and Nimrod's secret name was Marduke, and Marduke just means king, you know. So it just in the same thing with like Adonis. It goes back to Adon, which just means lord. So it's like how people call Jesus our lord.
You know.
It was a title of reverence basically.
No doubt, no doubt.
And then he's also referred to as like the great Hunter King and some he's seen as the first man of renown. Now that also carries with it some weight because Biblical sources at least talk about the men of renown and these men of greatness, they're talking about what we would refer to as nephelin, right, which are like half demonic spawn, half human things. And I'm not saying that Nimrod was or wasn't, but it was seen in
this way. And then according to the sources, he was killed by Esau, which is Abraham's grandson who bed right.
And now when you look at that story of Esau coming in and beheading Nimrod, right, and it says that Esau took the garments of Nimrod, right, And if you get into the rabbinical writings, they talk about the idea that these were cloaks that were basically made from the
remains of Adam and Eve. So there's this idea that and I have this argument quite a bit with people, and I've got all this info in the book, but basically they're like, well, what about these stories of the Cave of Treasures where they talk about, you know, basically making garments for them, you know, from uh And then you have the argument, well, this was in paradise, so where they're animals that were sacrificed, you know. Or and there's one rabbinical line of thinking where one of the
Rabbi Elias are. He says that they use the serpent skin to basically make these these cloaks for Adam and Eve. But if you get into the oldest meaning of it within rabbinical literature, it was the idea that the body was moving from a light form into a physical form. So the word that's used is it's very close to
the word life and skin. So there was this idea that that the skin that God clothed Atom with was the physical skin, so that we could exist within three dimensional reality, right, And and so what happened is, you know, even if you go back to the bush a book of Jashure, which is the sephi Yesa, right, it says it only mentions the remains of Adam, it doesn't say anything, you know. And that was written while supposedly while they
were in Babylonian exile, right. But these newer texts that can there was this thing called the Controversy of Adam. And basically this was about the time when Christianity was really starting to get big, and there was there was this controversy over you know, what these skins were, what Adam and Eve were, where they came from. So you have this series of books it ends up getting written,
and they called them the String of Pearls. And so you have the Cave of Treasures, you have the Book of Adam and Eve, and you have the Book of the b which actually comes almost six hundred years later, but those two specifically, and they're written about four to six hundred a d. Long after the discussions of what these skins have been and what they represented. But that was the skin that Esau took. It was it said that it smelled like paradise, right, because it was made
in the dimensional lear garden. Yeah, And so basically when the animals of the earthly realm would smell the skin, they weren't afraid of the because it smelled the paradise. So all the animals would gather around Nimrod and he could just slay take whatever animals he wanted, which.
Will be why he's the great hunter. I see where're you going.
Which is why he's the great And he's also credited in Persian mythology with domesticating the leopard and us beginning to use dogs for the unt and you know, and then that gets kind of into the mythology of Hercules as well, with a lot of this stuff, you know.
So as far as the garments that he took, this is the first time ever hearing of it being referred to as potentially skins.
Now, I've heard different things. Some people say cloaks.
We just had was our boy justin as a matter of fact, Jonathan who was talking about how it was the breastplate of judgment that the Rabbi class would wear, and they're saying that that might be the garment because Adam, why were supposed to be the priestly class.
And all these things about their roles and all this.
So I've heard things saying that possibly Nimrod took that the original priestley class breastplate of judgment and that was that he's all took back and all this stuff too. But I mean, who's to say. But yeah, I've never heard that this was the remains of Adam. I see where that could be coming from, but I've never heard of it like that before.
Yeah. I found an article right here that says it's from taught bydegree dot WordPress dot com. So I don't know how relevant it is, but it says yet it was God who ultimately provided them with garments of skin before expelling them from paradise, and that could have been maybe the precursor to the lambskin apron and freemasonry.
As far. Yeah, and that that apron, you can trace that back all the way into Zoroastrianism. It's it's got a long history the apron. If you read the Geneva Bible, they say that God put Adam and Eve in briches. So, you know, there's a lot of different stories. But when you take it back to the furthest point of the original vernacular, it basically entakes the idea that we were clothed with skin to be able to descend into matter.
And then the thing is with this whole idea of Nimrod being a skin walker, right, it's Madam Blovotsky and isis Unveiled volume one. She says at the age of twenty two that Nimrod puts these skins on and become and basically becomes the man of great renown. So that is the point, because up until that point, Nimrod was sacrificing to the Lord. He was bringing the best of the you know, so he was on the side of but it was once he put these skins on that he kind of became you know this this gooborum.
So this is where you're getting the idea that he was a skin walker because he was quite literally wearing skin that.
Or a cloak even potentially Yeah, oh my god.
So let's say that he was wearing the actual the actual skin of Adam, right, I mean, what does that do? Does it give you some kind does it shield you from God? Or is that why he turned against God and started, you know, going down the bad path or whatever. Because you were just saying that he was kind of on the good side, and then as soon as he you know, put these garments of skin possibly onto his body, then he kinda went to the dark side.
So to say, right, very much Star Wars analogous kind of thing with you know, like Anakin flipping the script, you know. But yeah, basically, and that was when he became the ruler over all of Mesopotamy. And you know
he he's basically the lord of the Canniballs. The Canniballs were the priests of Ball, you know, and and there was you know, all of the miscellaneous uh you know, blood magic and anibalism, and you know the picture you see in Revelations where there is the sun, the lady clothed by the sun giving birth, and the the red dragon is there, you know, basically to devour the infant. That is a literal description of Nimrod, the black fiery
serpent from ancient Babylon. So you know, tying that into modern you know, revelations and apocalypse and kind of so this character of Nimrod, he's kind of really woven into you know a lot of and you even see him in money Tunes cartoons, you know, with Bugs Bunny and Elmer Fudd, you know, calling or Daffy Duck calling people Nimrod.
You know, yeah, they became a colloquialism for for basically a dumb ass.
Yeah, it was a it was a Green Day album called Nimrod, right.
And that's yes, that's a modern English vernacular, we get that. But also there's there's a chain of Vince that went from this guy being the first man of greatness and the greatest huntsman for the Lord to now his name means somebody of low.
Iq, you know what I mean. He was a far line there.
Liked it was because he was the rebeller who was rebelled against. He basically rebelled against the system that he was under, and because of the way he treated his people, they rebelled against him. So he was kind of a
dumbass in that way. But the thing is, when you look at Nimrod in relation to the idea of Ninnis or young nin, which is where nine inch nails gets their ni n relates back to Nimrod right as as young when Nimrod was young, he was called nin n i n. But nonetheless, that character ties in with tam Ouz, ties in with Addis, ties in with all of these
an osiers as well. You know, all of these god formed men that were cut up that were you know, like and they like the worshipers, you know, they would clip their hair so you would get like you see Friar Tuck with the round tunture. That was in relation to the worship of Nimrod or this ancient mystery force. Because what happens is this the whole thing kind of goes underground at a certain point, and that's when you
get the rise of these various mystery schools. They kind of are are, you know, worshiping the Adonis and Addis, and so it creates the foundation of what would become within modern times, the Freemasons, the Rosicrucians, the Jesuits, you know, all these orders kind of tying in with you know, because ignacious Loyola even was into the Sofia mystery schools.
Yeah, so, I mean, especially like we said, we have to it depends on which source you're reading, right, because there are some sources that say that he was Nimrod himself was I think the grandson of Noah.
He was one of the sons of.
Ham which went to Africa and all these things, the land of Kush, and that's one storyline. There's another storyline that says that he was a direct ascendant of Osiris. And it really depends on especially in our modern day when we have all the access to all this information. We're looking at the mystery cults and the mystery schools and what this Lauren legends say. Do we go off of this book, do we go off of this text,
do we go off of this culture? It varies source to source, sod but everybody think he was a real dude that was the king during the time framing question.
Yes, potentially, or a title of a king that was
passed down through multiple generations. But if you look at the you know, within the Albert Mackie's Freemasonic Encyclopedia, right, he talks about Osiris as going out and edifying the world with this train of satyrs and nymphs behind him, and he's basically teaching you know, architecture and you know weights and measures and so and that's the same thing Dionysus was doing, you know, so all of these But the description of Nimrod and what he did is the
same as the description of Osiris and what he did is the same in a lot of ways is what Cain did. So you have you know, in some ways, I think that when you go back into the Egyptian mysteries and thought basically writing, creating reality, writing it into existence, right, that thought almost is writing these characters that he's writing himself as numerous characters that are playing a passion play
or a theater with one another. That that and it is a passion play essentially, that we're learning about the mysteries of these concepts and these ideas, right, And and you bring that into the uh the Tyrians, the Tyrians who helped King Solomon with the temple that were the gibb them of the earth, that the Freemasons traced themselves back to right, they became the Dionysians coming into Greece and they over you know, so they were like a
libertine kind of government, like they overthrew the current order wherever they went, and they built these temples, these sacred spaces, and they also built the theaters, so they were putting on these passion plays for the communities, you know, and you just can see it expanding through and you know, the philosophers of the time talk about, well, Dionysus is basically you know, ties in with Addis, and so you just see constantly how there's the rebranding of this these ideas,
these occult mystery schools kind of through time as they progress from Southeast Asia into Greece into becoming the apex of you know, the Roman religion, and then the fall of Rome and again they go underd and now you've got David Bloomberg, you know, getting that Temple of Mythris and rebuilding it, you know, and you've got just you know, from you know, the Obelisk stone in the un Building to the Capital Dome of the United States being the
pregnant belly of Isis with the apotheosis of George Washington turning into a god. You just see these these amalgamated forms, you know, kind of in everything around us.
Really, yeah, everything seems so simple. And you know, me and Jacob were the way that we kind of like to view a lot of this kind of spiritual and historical kind of stuff is he's more exoteric. I'm more of the esoteric variety. He loves the historical context of it. And this guy came from this guy, and well this had to have happened and stuff, And I think that
there's absolutely a place for that. And I think that you know, you were talking about how he was kind of involved Nimrov was kind of involved in the mystery schools and stuff like that. So that leads me to go, well, I mean, there has there had to have been some kind of esoteric It's like kind of a Culton mystery school of some kind of teaching that was going on there, and whether he was actually you know, because you had
mentioned about how there's two different possible Nimrods here. Maybe there was the one that was kind of relating back to the Thoth times, and then there's the one that's relating to the Noah Times. And do you think that the stories did they interconnect or are we talking about two completely separate individuals here or does it even matter if you're looking at it from a mystery school perspective.
I think there are a vast number of connections you can make. But what I think happens is as it kind of fans out and moves through these different cultures. Like so if you take Addis, right, he was known as the tall standing pine tree, right, But then you go back to a Cyrus and he was known as
the tall standing fir tree. So it was dependent upon the local you know, things that were available to them, that kind of and and you know, you've got cases where you can see they're bringing in like Mother Kybell
or Kibili and Addis into certain areas. And what they would do is they would overlay the fertility goddess with Kibli, right, And then in a couple of years later, and this is what they did in Rome as well, was they brought Kibili in from Phrygia, and she, you know, got her temple on the Palatine Hill, right, and she's an old goddess, right. She goes back to before I think to a different, different time when the polestar was worshiped and essentially she was considered as the mother of all
the gods. So when she got to Rome, all of the Roman gods were consolidated and started to participate in her rituals. That's when you have the tabulum where they would you know, cut the bull's neck and you'd have the person underneath that would get showered in the in the blood of the bull, and and you know, so all of these and you would see, uh, you would
see mars and ares practices coming into Mother Kibili. But then they brought the Addis cult after that, After Mother Kibbilei was established, the other half, which had been transitioning through Dionysus, actually comes in. And at first Rome was really appalled because you know, they're doing these transgressive things. There's like lots of uh, you know, cutting and blood involved, and uh it's uh you know so, but over time
attas became totally normalized, you know. So again you can see how these things move through the cultures and are rebranded through the transitions based on the local you know, fauna and flora and the symbols that they can use that that are equivalent per se.
Yeah, dude, I I just I I love looking into the esoteric variety of it and trying to understand, like, all right, the the the mystery school aspect here, like were these things and these people and their special powers? Are there their god like abilities? Like were these symbolic of something that they could use within their practice or you know? Or or were they? I mean, I don't know what do we think about Greek gods and goddesses
and stuff like that? Is it fiction, fable reality? I mean most people would probably say that it's more myth than reality. Right.
They thought it was real though.
They didn't think they were praying to Hermes in a metaphor. They thought they were absolutely making a sacrifice to him, or to Zeus or to Neptune.
Now cut to Rome, well as Mercury and Jupiter and Mars the same shit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And when you get into that, what's really interesting is, uh so these within the mystery schools, they're also linked in with these different prophetic organizations. As far as the Sibiline oracle, as far as you know, there was an oracle of the Donna that was to Zeus. There was oracles in Egypt. A lot of this stuff has the ritual of the mystery school, but also ties
in with the idea of ecstatic prophecy. Right. What you see in in the Hebrew culture a lot what you see in the Greek culture a lot fate, you know,
moving into Rome. But that was the whole thing. These uh, these oracles, they were a re combinant brought back to life of the ancient Chaldean oracles and these Chaldean oracles and this is in Babylon, right, But they would basically do these certain rituals to summon up energies to basically commune with these very much like the breastplate of judgment
that we were talking about earlier. I feel it was a sort of like a Oiji board almost where they were using this as a mechanism to basically talk to entities in other realms, you know. So so when you get into that, the Chaldean or or were all dedicated to a lot of the Greek, the Greek different gods
kind of had crossover. But and then when you look at Zeus and the overthrow of the Titans, that story actually goes back to Kombari and another overthrow story that kind of from the Aah atall Mountains that kind of came down in and became the title Mancy of the Greeks, so you see all and it's just like the David and Goliath story in Judaism, right, you can relate that back to a further story of a young kid flinging a stone and killing a giant that goes, you know,
thousands of years earlier than the story of David. So all of these stories that have a tendency to repeat them, you know, over and over. And is it, like Jesus said, is it a parable? It's something that's teaching us that has an inherent message that that we need to learn, you know, or are these actual you know, real gods fighting in the heavens?
And you know, I mean even if they are, like let's just say that some of the Greek gods or whatever are actually real, Like all right, well, what kind of effect does that have on us with the information that we have on them? You know, like we're not going to really have any major effect on if the gods are fighting in heaven so to say, But it seems.
Within the esoteric philosophy as above so below, as in heaven soul on Earth. So there's been even within Christianity, you know, and Jesus says, you know, the stars in the heavens will show you the sign of the times, you know. So it's inherent within the esoteric philosophies that have developed. You know that each of these gods is directly related to a planet, you know. But that's the
other thing. You have this idea of apophiosis right where some of the temples in Egypt and Greece, like Hippocrates, how he has the finger over his lips, you know, to keep silent. That's really if you read the old philosophers, they say that basically the secret was that these god men were actually men of great renown that had died and had become worshiped and turned into God's. So you have this idea of apotheosis and the same yeah, the same thing in Washington, d C. With George Washington in
the Capitol Dome. The name of that painting is the Apotheosis of George Washington. And as a culture in America, in a lot of ways, we have turned George Washington as a founding father with all the mystic stories, you know, into a sort of godhead that created our nation, you know. So these are things that that, yes, or esoteric, but also directly apply to how physical reac is manifest by capturing people's imagination and using belief systems.
See that through multiple cultures too, or especially around the Mediterranean. There was a very common practice in Rome for a good while there that once the Caesar, first of all, the Caesar should be worshiped as if he was a god on earth.
Not all caesars did.
That, but good chunk of them didn't pope direct connection. Then you had some of these guys that would have statues of themselves built and put into the temples all around the Mediterrane, from Egypt to Anatolia to everywhere, and you would have you could say the term mystery cult. But at that point it wasn't exactly a mystery. It was usually for the sportily class who were worshiping their generals and Caesars as demi gods in their own rights. And I mean that was something that the Romans did
for sure. The Greeks did a version of that, if I'm not mistaken. I mean, and they didn't just come up with that on their own. So having these people that lived and walked the earth, even within at the time current living memory to become I forget the way you're not a pathosis apotheosis to become a demi god like that was absolutely a part of it, dude.
That's another example of that too, is I always like to mention that, uh autobiography of a yogi, it's Paramahansa Yogananda and his yogi was called Shri yuk de Shwar and like he would he actually lived, you know, uh like was trained by him in real life. And uh like Shri you Deshwar was obviously older than him. He
was the yogi, he was the teacher. And anyway, Sar he ends up dying, right and uh, Paramahansa he ends up going to his funeral and he's there for the whole ceremony and everything, and like later that day or a couple of days later or something like that, he's up in his room and Shrike de Shoar, he says, comes to him, and he's like there almost as if
he's there in the flesh. And this was a guy that he was meditating with and learning, you know, all that there is to be learned within yoga, mysticism and whatnot. But like I wonder if that's kind of an example of like like an apotheosis.
Well, and you have Jesus when he's resurrected as well, you know, he comes back in a pure form and he says, don't touch me because you'll you'll, you know,
pollute my spirit body, you know. So yeah, there is some inherent and then you have the idea of you know about the thirteenth breath rainbow body of the Buddhists, where basically you're taught the first twelve breaths and then you've learned by mastering those twelve, the consciousness of the universe basically teaches you the thirteenth and then you can ascend and become pure rainbow light without having to die, much like Enoch or you know, all these characters.
Shit, yeah, I have never even heard of that. Now I gotta do a whole Metamisteries episode on.
So but yeah, that's the whole thing. And I think, uh, you know, you go back far enough within the philosophies, and they believe that when you died, you would go to shol you'd go to this mediary place where you waited for the end of time, right, and with the arise of these mystery schools from Mithrs to you know, Attis being taken to Mount Olympus by Kibili and Apotheo size you start, what you start to see is the inherent nature of humanity, believing in higher forms of existence,
and and that basically matriculating through and eventually becoming modern you know, Christianity.
So it's essentially like an eggergre at that point, right in a way. Yeah, yeah, in that sense. Yeah, that's that's that's wild, dude. I love learning about this stuff just out of curiosity, Like how did you I mean, you're an artist, how did you come across all this kind of information? Like is it just like a fascination or what did you.
Go from starving artists deadhead on the road following game?
You being so well versed in the ancients, you know.
Well that's the whole thing. So as an artist, I'm interested in symbolism. So you follow these symbols back and you're like, well, this is crazy, this is wild, this is weird, this is cool, and and so you start to seek out information on the cultures that were using those symbols, and so, you know, you start reading history, you start reading esoteric philosophy, you start reading the philosophers and and and just trying to piece these things together
as a holistic kind of story, you know. So basically, over the last thirty years, on top of reading, I've also been able to listen to audiobooks. I have a couple apps. I have air Natural Reader and I have a soft Zen Reader. It's just a text to speech app, right, And if there's if anybody knows of one out there for the Android, because these are both for for iPhone. But I got a friend looking for the Android version of this so that they can take advantage of this
as well. But once you have one of those apps, the text to speech apps, you can go to archive dot org. You can go to Congress Library at Congress, you know, and you can go to these different library the Gutenberg project, and you can find PDFs of these books or text you know, files of these books, and you just drop them in the app. And then while I'm sitting here doing art, I'm like studying ancient philosophy for like thirty years.
Just getting in the fucking zone over there, dude.
Yeah, yeah, you know.
What, we probably need something like that to get through all those damn JFK files because I'm not about to sit there and read sixty thousand fucking pages.
You know, I've been doing my digging on that, and we will release an episode on it soon.
I hate to break into everybody.
Sixty thousand pages released, fifty thousand of them have nothing to do with anything.
That really matters. So here's here's what happened on that.
I'm not going to spend a long diet tribal on this one, but just so everybody's clear here, every single document associated with the Warren Commission got thrown in that file for the next twenty years. Every document that even had the name Kennedy on it got thrown in this file. So of the sixty thousand that just got released, half of them aren't even first person accounts. Half of them
don't even actually apply. There's maybe ten thousand, give or take pages that are like of worth that we could look into.
And some of them are great.
Some of them have some bombshells about Lee Harvey and his communeistic ties. Some of them have some three letter agencies that are implemented. Some of them talk about the cover up, no doubt, the vast majority of them are just like filler shit, and it's it's frustrating as hell.
I think that's probably what you get with. I don't know, is that a freedom of information thing or was that just an executive order?
Yeah, information only goes if it's free to the public. So like, if there's still something that's considered top secret, you can't put in a foyer request and get that release, you know what I mean. The candy stuff was listed as that up until recently.
Well, I just I know that, or I've heard other people trying to request, you know, certain foyas and stuff like that, and they say, you know, you have to be real specific. It's almost like whenever you go to the Vatican Library, you have to name the exact book that you're looking for us they won't get it to you right and spelling.
You know the fact that when you going through these texts, you find nim a Mood, you find Nimrod, you find nimu Roud, you find just so even if you're looking, you know, are you looking for Lee Harvey Oswald? Are you looking for the Oswald or you know, the whole two Oswald's kind of thing, It's like it's like, you know, yeah, it's.
Oh comma could throw off the entire thing. Harvey, Kama Oswald Oswald comma leeve, Harley, Harvey, did you forget that comma? Now we're looking for some guy with the first name Oswald, last name Harvey. That one little thing and they'll they'll give you what they'll find.
Nothing nothing right. Yeah, Well, and if you go back to uh when they found in uh, what was it when they found the new ma leash basically the the all the baked clay tablets of the Sumerians. You know, they took all those back to not all of them, they're still digging them out, but they took like one hundred thousand of them back to England and most of them were John traded and for you gold pecks and you know wheat deal and like it's like you know.
Receipt right, stuff like is awesome. Don't get me on. Because we know how to read the cuneiform b language. It gives us a real good snapshot of what life was like, which is awesome. But people were like, oh, this is the greatest techno, the greatest information.
Ever and that it's like, dude, it's a receipt.
Well, it's also pretty cool to see what ship was worth if you're trading something, trading this for that, you know the value in certain things.
But within all of those those baked clad tablets, they found the Epic of Gilgamesh, just one little nugget, you know, and it's not very long, you know, And they found
a couple other little stories here and there. So you know, as we go through and we have AI translating these tablets, now you know, we may come up with new mythologies, new passion plays news stores, because you figure the those just came out and we have you know about what was it the over there that that old calendar site that Graham Hancock talks about that's twenty thousand years older than Bagley Tepe and that is actually called Inky's Calendar,
and Inkley Inky is directly related in as well with Nimrons.
Oh, I don't know that, yeah.
Talking about that tablet in specific. There's no complete story of the Epic of Gilgamesh that we know of, but there's one that is the most complete.
Right.
It's got a couples that were broken off and stuff.
Y'all remember hearing about that controversy with the couple that owns big lots that they oh, man. So they were buying all of these really specific clay tablets from the Sameari and all this stuff. One of the ones and it was like, I forget how many millions of dollars they spent on this tablet and then come to find out they weren't even legally allowed to buy it.
So it was this controversy. They got sued.
They bought the most fleet tablet of the Epic of Gilgamesh, which was crazy because they're very overtly evangelical Christians, so why would they spend all of this money on that.
It was so fascinating when that came out. But yeah, yeah, it's wild ship.
Yeah. Well and what was it in the Hillary Clinton emails how she was looking for the Gilgamesh resurrection chamber or something along.
Yeah, the tomb or some shit like that, right, yeah.
Yeah. So, you know, it's just interesting how all this stuff and and within the schools of magic, within the you know, all of the these magical schools come out of ancient Samaria, ancient Babylon, you know, coming through all these various forms and you know the different schools, you know, fire Wars, it's like, uh, what's it? The uh, the kids show there with then Little Ninja Kid where it's like Fireworld and the Fire Warriors against the Water Warriors.
And oh it's our last Araben. Yeah.
Yeah, so very in very many ways. You know, we have these different schools that have emerged that are trying to vie for power in the modern you know, age, and it's it's quite interesting, and.
It would makes sense to me that it would come from that section of the world, especially at the time when it did, because the Middle East as a whole is the crossroads of that entire hemisphere. Right Everything from Africa, if they're trying to go north, will eventually pass through this area.
Everything from Europe, everything from Asia, all the stuff.
So when you look at ancient Persia, ancient Babylon, ancient Samaria, that entire section right there smacked even ancient Egypt. It's also the crossroads of all of these things to Africa. You pick up a little bit of this and a little bit of that along the way you apply it. And I think that's also kind of where we get the silk Row religion, the mythrays. It was kind of an amalgamation of all these things that became its own subset in and of itself, so it makes a lot of sense for sure.
Yeah, and Mithra, if you trace Mithra back, that goes all the way back to the proto Aryan Scythians and dips it. Part of it dips down into India, and then part of it comes across and goes into Greece. And then during that whole time, Mithro was more associated with the light of day and basically he was the in charge of contracts and then in charge of like uh crossroad. He was the original god of the crossroads. But nonetheless, when you trace it up, there was never
any bull sacrifice in it. But then when the Romans got it, I think they went back to ancient a Jura, Mazda and Adiman and that that story basically about them slaying the cosmic bull, and then the blood of that bull became all the life on earth in Rome. You know, That's when you bring it when it became a military cult essentially, I think that they started doing the bull slaying and then it changed from the light of day to the worship of Lucifer at that point.
And it's also crazy to me that, like you said, the proto Aryan side of things, which would be what we would now call the Persians or the our Astrians or modern day.
Iran, right, all these things.
Somehow, some German dudes in the turn of the nineteenth century or twentieth center, i should say, heard proto Aryan and was like, yep, tall, blonde, blue eyed guys, never mind the fact that fucking Persian and definitely didn't have any of those features, Like hell yeah, and it was I think it was.
Yeah, yeah, I.
Think you're right about the bull sacrifice too, because, like you said, the proto Aryan they dipped into India.
No Indian culture is going to tell you to slay a bull. Sorry, that's not gonna happen. But the Romans, however, absolutely.
Yeah, they're all about some bull. Well, and that that ties back in with the Serapian bull. There was the Tyrian bull in Greece. There's been, you know, a long chain of these various bulls, and in early India there was actually some sacrifice on key days, you know, based on the movements of the heavens in accordance with the cosmic turnings. But that has slowly been phased out.
Yeah yeah, interesting.
So okay, so you as an artist, that's how you got started all this.
You're looking for the symbolism, and I.
Guess if we're gonna really put a title on it, we're talking like sigils and sigil magic and things like that. And I could see how an artist would look at these things and then make their connections to this as well.
But how much of your research into the ancient things and the old things was And I'm gonna I'm gonna try to phrase this, and I don't want this to sound like I'm being any type of way here, but especially you being a deadhead and following fish and all the psychedelic and trippy art that you I'm sure have major bread and butter on for the past few decades, how much of it was influenced in that way as far as psychedelic trance states of life into the ancient
mysticism and then into your artwork as well.
Right, And you know when you get into Shiva, Yeah, there's a lot of cannabis culture. When you get into
the mystery schools. Dionysus would dip his thersus in a blue honey and anoint the main ads and they would go into a state of madness or giastic madness, and then you get into John Aleegra researching as far as the Dead Sea scrolls, there was proof that the scenes were growing silossope mushrooms in caves, which Jesus was a member of the scenes, and that kind of gets into melchiesa deck and melchiesa deck was he was carried into the heavens after his birth before the flood, in accordance
with the third second book of Enoch and basically the the Hebrews of that time, they believe that it was this intrinsic force that what they call they called it the UH, there was a word for it, but it would basically come in and you would become it. So I think there was you know, going through these cultures, you see lots and lots of uses of psychedelics, different types of The Scithians had two types of hash. They had a brown hash that was cannabis and they had
a red hash that was opioid based. So you know, but that's the whole thing, all of these UH different groups and these prophets, these this ecstatic prophecy and entering
into ecstatic states for communing with the perceived Godhead. You know, I think that UH that ties in to a great extent with what is going on in psychedelic culture now is these kids are you know, and adults, even the people that are that are participating in this, are doing this to have some sort of connection to the divine turnings of the of whatever this reality is.
One hundred percent. And you know a good example of that would be The Doors of Perception by Aldus Huxley. And he was I mean, I can't remember which drug he was hallucinating on. It was something that nobody mescaline, masculine, that's right, yeah, yeah, and he wrote a whole book on it. Uh And and actually, from what I understand, that's where Jim Morrison got the idea for the name of the Doors was because of the Doors of Perception.
And if you look in Alice Huxley's Mokeshot book, he specifically talks about we have to find a substitute for blood ritual and blood magic and the drinking of blood.
And there's all these adrenochrome studies that are going on around that, and they're basically researching adrenochrome and that, and there was the fear kind of like how you go into a k hole, that you could go into an adrenochrome hole where basically you create your own fear, and then you start producing your own adrenaline, which decays into adrenochrome, and you become in this perpetual state of fear that you couldn't get out of the adrenochrome.
High fuck on that, dude, Yeah.
There's but that's the whole thing. Alvius Huxley, you know what was the general stubblebind in an interview with Freeman Fly, basically detailed the fact that Alvis Huxley was the chief coordinator for the MK Ultra project.
You know, I could believe that, honestly, especially with delving into mescal into the levels that he did and looking at it or the principles that it was, I could see it, and not not with the uh, the darker side of things of trying to control people, but also to unlock unopenable doors within the mark. Now, of course, when a government agency does that, you're only using it for one purpose. But I could see outside absolutely exactly right right right, Well.
I think I think that, you know, there are a lot of people that are looking into some form of psychedelic to try and see just what this world really is. What does it actually mean to be a human. Why are we here?
Now?
Where did we come from? Where are we going? We wonder about, you know, our existence in general. And I think there's been so many stories of people having these extremely profound things that happen to them whenever they, you know, enter the realm of psychedelics, and whether that be mushrooms or mescaline or DMT or ayahuasca or whatever whatever you're into, Like, there seems to be some correlating factor there that whether you're you're seeing another being in the astral realm or
if you're just seeing like all of these crazy geometric shapes, that feels more real than realc I've definitely felt that before, and I mean, like, what is the answer to that then, Like if that's just the mind tripping, Like my mind is not creating that, Like there's there's no way that my mind is creating these magnificent let's just even get into the geometric symbols. My mind ain't doing that shit.
Like I can barely draw a fucking triangle, and for some reason, I'm getting like the Sistine Chapel of all geometrics going on in my mind. Like, and so what do you do with that information, I don't know what to do with it.
And it's interesting because I think what you're doing with these substances is you're dilating your senses in different ways, opening and very much like the opiate opioids close you down, where some of these hallucinogens they open up the neural
receptors so you can intake more information. But what I find interesting is consistently, depending upon the substance used, you get reports coming back for days, decades of people encountering the same energies, the same green goddess that will come and teach you about nature, the clockwork elves, these various d MT entities, you know. So it's it's it's quite intriguing.
But and and did you see that NASA just found these two hyperplasmoid zones of the Earth where they said that basically because of how they're situated within the orbit of the Earth, that they have the potential for self organization and could be some sort of a different life,
intelligent life form that we don't understand. And immediately I almost was like, well, maybe this is what these ecstatic prophetic people kind of are are syncing in with these long term kind of arconic energies that have developed with the Earth that are like these these potential too, you know, mind forms that are kind of part of the Earth itself. You know.
So it depends on who you ask.
As far as me and Jonathan is concerned, I am one that doesn't necessarily believe every single thing NASA tells us. Okay, yeah, but I also believe on the side of science and engineering and physics a lot more than the average repair. Jonathan is somebody who if if NASA says it, it must be incorrect or there must be a subaddendum or agenda that is being pushed forward.
I mean, I think that you have there's gonna be a little bit of truth with your bullshit or otherwise, if it's all bullshit, you're never gonna convince a percentage of people. So I'm not gonna sit here and say that I absolutely dismiss every single thing that NASA says. I definitely dismiss a lot of their pictures. I definitely dismiss about how they say that we went to the moon. We definitely didn't do that shit, And if we did,
like there's no actual proof that we did. Like, there's there's no footage.
All the film that they had it got burned and came up missing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And we used to have that technology. We got rid of it a long time ago. Like it's like.
What and the technology we have in our pockets with the phones now is you know, a thousand times you know, more than what they had back then.
Yeah, you're trying to make me believe that you took an actual shit box to the moon and got back. How that doesn't make any sense.
How can we tell that NASA's telling us the truth about these two zones? If you will, right.
Right, But I'm just saying from a philosophical point of view, could this be some sort of a mean to maybe possibly facilitate an explanation? And if you look at Soviet research, right, they found that when they sent astronauts up and they would be in a slow decay going out to several of them they weren't able to get back. But the ones they were able to get back if they went past the Earth's magnetosphere, when they came back, they had
no memories. They had They were basically tabula rasa and they had to teach him how to talk and walk and do everything all over again, So inherently is are all of our minds linked to the magnetic field of the earth itself, and the Earth itself is maybe some sort of a receiving tower that allows us to experience physical reality.
Oh my god, it's definitely possible, dude. I've been listening a lot. One of my favorite podcasts of all time is called Crow Triple seven. We had him on here one time. For years, fucking awesome, love that guy, but we had him on one time and I was fanboying
like a little bitch the entire time. But whenever we had him on, he was talking about his documentary called Shoot the Moon, And so we watched the documentary and then had him on and it was a fascinating conversation because whatever is going on up in the moon, I never heard an explanation for those little things that are jumping out of the moon, like as that aliens, that life forms. Is that, you know, some kind of rupture that's coming out of Nobody knows, you know, because NASA
is not going to give you that information. But right now, what he's doing is is that he's been shooting the sun. And that is even more fascinating because he believes that he has found possible like maybe he's found the second son and it's not necessarily a sun like we see, but almost like the inverted kind of version of the sun almost from what I understand. What do you think about that?
Yeah, there's all all stories in ancient histories is about the black sun, the sun behind the sun. You know, the generally when you get into the mysteries of isis it was serious? The star serious? Right, there's base because our solar system is basically in binary with the serious system, right, but and they rotate around one another, but serious itself,
which we've just found out through modern science. So they say what the dogon people were telling us two thousand BC, you know, but within the the mysteries of VISs that that black sun that was in serious was set or set those which was the one that cut up Osyrus, you know, or Nimrod you know. So it's it's uh, yeah,
the whole black sun, the sun behind the sun. Then you get into the whole idea of uh, you know, sons that have faded out, like they believe what was it Saturn used to be a son like a brown small brown dwarf and uh, you know about NASA basically, Uh, it was a project they did where they sent seventy two kilograms of TNT and basically bombed the side of Saturn and because they were trying to reignite it, and that's when you got that uh six pointed cubic cubic shape on.
The you know what, northern end bombing it caused that that whatever shape at the top of Saturn.
As long as I've been paying attention to conspiracy, that's how I remember it.
Oh my god, lord.
Yeah, yeah, and I can I can find the name of that that project. But yeah, they they were basically and I think India, Japan, and the United States we're all trying to do this very much like India, Japan, and the United States. And I think China now has slammed satellites or or something into the side of the Moon and nasty. You know. They said it rang like a bell, and it's made of silicon dioxide, which is essentially glass, and crow triple seven. How he's filmed at
certain stages of the moon. How you can see the stars behind it coming through it. Yeah, So yeah, a lot of interesting stuff there, dude.
None of this shit is really what we think it is. And you know what I'm saying, Like the Moon's glass, we all thought it was some kind of dust. I mean, I remember whenever I was growing up in my childhood, it was cheese, you know what I mean. Like everybody
has their own theories about what these things are. I mean, and even like in you know, in Witchcraft, looks at the moon a certain type of way, and you look at all the old the sun worshiping cults and stuff like that, Like, clearly there had to have been something to do with these planets. Maybe they're not just like just balls of fire or just you know, gatherings of minerals and dirt and shit, right.
Right, And that was the whole thing is you have the esoteric idea, which is it's the physical planet, and then you have the esoteric idea, which is somehow it's related, you know, to the energies of this this certain form, you know, and uh yeah, people try to work with that. When you look at astrology, when you look at you know, all the various forms of divination that we have in modern society.
Yeah, dude, it is. It is quite wild the different views on it. And like, don't get me wrong, like history just I think this because we've been doing the show for coming up on five years now in August will be five years. That'll be That's a big anniversary right there. Five years doing a podcast. That's a long time.
But you know, all of these years doing the you know, just questioning politics and questioning history and questioning literally everything, I'm less inclined to look in the into the historic exoteric kind of understanding, and I'm more inclined to look
into the esoteric. It's like, you know, I I've actually made I don't want to say I've lost my grasp of reality in that sense, but I think that I've I've loosened the stranglehold that I once had on it in that sense to where there's more to this than just physical reality, you know, like there has to be, and so why wouldn't you look into it for its more mystical and philosophical type of understandings, Like if we weren't always humans, If that's the case, I mean, even
if if you're a Christian, you believe that like you're a soul, you're a spirit, you're gonna ascend to heaven, You're not gonna take your body. So therefore physical reality is probably not gonna matter then, right, So even if you want to look at it from that end, there is something very I don't want to say esoteric about this reality, but maybe it is, you know, I think
that that is. Maybe that was the reason why Jesus was speaking in parables and stuff like that, to try and get you to spend the mind a little bit and not so much look at it for exactly what it is, but maybe the meaning behind.
It expand the imagination. Well, and that's what this all really comes down to, is the imagination. As humans, we speak and we tell each other stories, you know, so that's the way we convey information, and by taking more information in we get a rounder viewpoint of what the whole is. Right, And when you begin to go back to the ancient occult philosophies of the hermetic sciences and basically, you know, using those two manipulate it. We all manipulate reality.
Every single thing around us from our mouse, computer, pens and pencils, are clothes we wear. Somebody thought about that and created that idea and brought that thing into physical being and shared it with everybody else. And now we have corporations of course, trying to take that over and take away the culture itself and you know, homogenize it all.
But that's the whole thing. Even with media and TV and us watching these various movies and television shows and the music itself, you almost have to wonder how much they're trying to And I think that's a to a great extent. What these ancient religions did, what these ancient mystery schools did, was they they you know, like when you go to Disney, you know, and they say we're going to show you the future when you go to Epcot, right, they're basically providing all of the flora and fauna that
populate our mind. And as you know, in modern psychological warfare terms, they call it the fourth World wilderness. And and the war is for the mind, you know, So what are you going to choose to put in your mind? What are you going to choose to you know? And that's from the philosophical point. You go back to the ancient philosophers, and it's the idea of you take everything
as possibly true, but at the same time everything is false. Yeah, so you know, and and are they basically cultivating the masses minds to create the future that the technocrats or you know, whatever group you want to pick, the you know, World Economic Forum, the Illuminati, the you know, all these all these groups are vying for our minds, you know.
So it's it's one hundred percent. Yeah, it's one hundred percent of the mind. Like there's it's it's no question. And I think that, yeah, are they trying to poison you and the food and the water and the you know everything, absolutely, But that's to try to kind of calcify your pineal gland or poison your own mind, or make you a little bit too lethargic so that you don't even get the curiosity to look into these kinds
of things. And and and maybe you're so dulled out that you don't even really care if there is any kind of deeper meaning to this reality. You just want to go to work, you want to come home, spend a little time with your family, you know, maybe watch a little wrestling as a nightcap, and and just go about your life. And there's nothing wrong with that. But for the modern day philosopher, the modern day a truth seeker, we want to know, all right, well, what did they
know that we don't know? You know, like they're obviously they they know a little bit more than us, and that's how they're able to manipulate us in all of these ways. And also why would they want to manipulate us and poison us in all these different ways if it was just for no reason, Like, there has to be something that they're hiding, something powerful, some kind of information, something out there that they don't want you looking into.
And that's why that's where you look into. Like people get in shadow band off a YouTube and tik tie and all the social media's and podcasts and stuff like that, and certain algorithms don't want this kind of conversations being had, right.
Because it simply takes the mind and opens it up to a much larger possibility than what is being you know, ivy fed into the masses through algorithms.
You know, yeah, dude, it's uh, it's it's sick. But you know, I'm having a fun time figuring it all out. Like and to be honest, that's why I love conspiracies, Like I just want my mind blown every fucking day. Like we we shoot five shows a week, that's five out of seven days, and sometimes we shoot six or seven in a week. You know, to if I got you know, if we got vacation or something like that coming up. Sometimes we'll shoot two in a day, like today,
we're shooting two in a day. And I just love. It's almost like a it's like a drug, having your mind blown, right, the mind quest.
And that's the whole thing is, you know, learning all these stories, learning how history works, learning how it gives you a better frame of reference, uh, to view the modern world.
You know.
And and you know, people say, oh, conspiracy theorists are crazy, And just because I read a lot of history, and I know a lot of occult things, and I know a lot of you know, various things about for some reason, I'm a conspiracy theorists because I seek knowledge, you know, And I think the conspired the idea of you know, we know it was through Freedom of Information Act. It was created by the CIA in regard to JFK. You know, anybody that have more information that you want to deal with,
you call them a conspiracy theorist to dismiss them. But I think what the conspiracy theorists now calling someone that is basically one of the most educationally lazy things you can do, because you either refuse to or you don't want to you want to maintain your status quo rather than allowing for the possibility of this world may not even be what we think it is.
Well, and a lot of this information can be like little like many d MT trips where it will it will cause you to lose grasp of reality in a certain sense. And a lot of people don't like their foundation if their foundation shaken like that. It's like, well, I have this, I believe this history because that history is what latches me on to what I deem reality is in a sense, right, and if you close.
Though, right, it ebbs and flows. It used to be and by used to be.
I'm let's look centuries back, right, somebody who's thinking outside of the box, who just doesn't go off of whatever the official narrative is. And yes, we could look at European countries and it's whatever the Church.
Was saying, right, that's the official narrative.
Whoever was looking outside of that might have been considered an alchemist, same breath would have been considered a heretic. It depended on who was funding them. The Church funded alchemy. But then also the dudes is doing the same thing and working out of the same books.
Were birthake as heretics.
It really just depended on where the funding was coming from, right, But then you look at today's world, being a conspiracy theorist ten years ago was something to be scoffed at in our current modern by current, I mean like only from twenty twenty to now. Honestly, COVID really broke the mold on that. And now anybody who's got a brain stem and thinks for themselves might even be conspirator considered a conspiracy theorist.
So it kind of ebbs and flows, and it goes with the times.
And in the same sense, I'm kind of happy as a matter of fact that, like you said, many DMT trips and people don't want their reality shaken. I would postulate that right now, currently as we speak, more and
more adults are delving into psychedelics. Not yes, some for the recreational use, sure that's a thing, but more and more adults, and I mean some veterans that I know that have gone to Aahuascar retreats to try to help them with their PTSD varying results mostly to the positive, but there is more of a sense of what the
hell is going on here? And it's like drugs even in that sense, or I want to use that term, let's say substances, right, let's say just as a whole, they kind of ebb and flow, and for a good while there only the hippies deal with LSD and mushrooms, and I don't know any good people that smoke marijuana.
And it's like that.
Has changed so drastically in these past years to where now it's like, look, if you're going to become a burnout, yeah, that's not good, no matter what. It's like drinking, if you're going to become an alcoholic, that's not good, no
matter what. Right now, the ebbs and flows of it all, man, we are at a time where more and more people are looking at psychedelics not for the sense of just seeing the fractals and the colors and having a trippy evening, but they're actually using them for what I would argue would be their true intended purpose. And I'm very happy that a lot of the stigma has come off of that as a whole.
Oh dude, Dan, I'll tell you what there has been. And from time to time I'll read reviews and comments on the show, and yes, well I read them, but I don't take them to heart. I know that there's just a lot of people out there that are Internet keyboard warriors that are gonna say something on the Internet because you're shielded, nobody knows where you're at, nobody knows where you're coming from, nobody knows what you look like. Therefore,
it gives you almost leeway to be a shithead. But and and to those people, I'm just like, you know, maybe if you wouldn't say something to somebody in reality, you probably shouldn't type it. Because what we have is a platform and we can call out some people from time to time. And those people that think I'm some kind of fucking drug burnout or something like that, because all I like to talk about is psychedelics and and and weed and stuff like that, I'm just like, bro,
I haven't. I haven't had a psychedelic experience since that that DMT trip in Florida in October. Like, it's not something that I do for fun. It's it's it's to have some kind of spiritual experience, to to try and grasp some fraction of enlightenment whatever can be bestowed upon me. And I think that they are helpful things. A lot of people have found a lot of help from psychedelics. I mean, you just mentioned.
About me off of alcohol, Like that's not even that's even a joke, that's not a thing, Like, well you just replaced it. No, no, No, it's way easier to put down mushrooms than it is to put down the bottle that you haven't for ten fucking years.
You're not getting addicted to this kind of shit. It's not meant for that. I mean, yeah, you mentioned it earlier, like some people are gonna party with it and ooh pretty colors and oh I like it the way it gives me that tingle in my body. Sure, but that's you know, that's that's for the partygoers. I'm I'm married, I got kids, I got bills to pay. I ain't
going to know fucking raves bro. You know what I'm saying. Like, whenever I'm doing this, I'm doing it in the comfort of my own home or I'm surrounded by people that I love and trust, and it's more of a ceremonial thing than it is anything else.
Yeah, yeah, And I think traditionally that's kind of what it's always been until you have the occurrence of you know what is it Bluebird, Artichoke MK Ultra basically using these substances, and then you had you know about Andrea PuO Rich Familiar Refreshmory here. Yeah, he uh basically was
the guy that worked with Juri Geller the spoon Bender. Yeah, but his first book was called The Sacred Mushroom and then his second book was called Beyond Telepathy, but he was basically using these substances to try to create telepathy,
you know. So yeah, you know, it's just interesting through the ages how these things have tried to be co opted by and I even back to the mystery schools, they were using them as a form of of sacrament to just you know, uh like pervade divine you know, uh intervention, like trying to connect between the higher and
the lower realms. And it's uh yeah, you know because inherently and and I think that's another thing that they do is make you also believe that there are other levels of reality rather than just being alive in this body.
And it also depended on the mystery school like the majority of them, I would say we're dealing in some sort of psychedelic Uh.
Yeah, I do want to say hallucination, but peering beyond the veil.
In that way, there were other mystery cults that you had to be stone cold sober to be a part of. And like there was varied you know cults, a cult and dededy didy.
But there's an argument with that because there's like secret drugs in the higher levels of Buddhism. There's like, uh, there's this one writer I read that talked about the Jesuits would basically lead the pope up to the point where they would be like, you're gonna meet God, and then one time they would they would give them, you know, a substance you know, and basically have that that experience.
So you know, there are some secret Even within these purest kind of cults, you do find the use of substances at certain point, and it's it's just I think a natural part of existence on the earth because the earth produced you know, the burning bush of Moses is the highest producing plant in that region of Dimthal trip to me, you know, So you just have these various things that kind of show you and it's not something that's exoterically talked about.
Yeah, I mean, in the order of the assassins, the phenomenously they get the name hash comes from Haines, exactly.
Where we get the word assassin from. They had to be sober.
That was a part of their training and all this until it came time for them to go and do the act that it was. Now some scholars argue that they got high on hash before they would go and perform their assassination.
I would I wouldn't.
I don't believe that you would want to be.
Really initiation and ritual function.
Yes, it was a thing to show them the other side and what they achieve if they.
Why they're doing these these bloody things exactly.
So, I mean, there's to your point, there's some that even though you had to be sober, maybe there was a little bit of it brought in at the right time for a specific purpose. Yeah, it's it's really fascinating to look at that and see, this is where we kind of find that unison of the exoteric and the historical precedents and like hard concrete facts along with some of the esoteric and the deeper meaning and what might
have been symbolically gestured at in these times. This is where that that combination comes in.
And also just speaking on nowadays, like you know, we live in a capitalist society. We gotta go to work every day, we gotta pay bills, We got to take care of our family. We can't do like the fucking gurus of India and sit in meditation for twenty five days, like my bills can't afford that. And so sometimes you do need like that that like that super highway door. Yeah,
just to peek through the door. I don't need the whole thing, blast it all the way open, but let me just see through the keyhole a little bit and you'll, you know, you'll have mushrooms and all the other different types of psychedelics that will allow you to experience that without meditating for you know, thirty hours or whatever the case may be. And so I mean I think that you know, there is there are plenty of examples of people getting high on their own supply, you know, with
the going into meditation and having the MT. Yeah, yeah, the the natural DMT that secreted. So I don't know, dude. I The way I look at it is is that if it's if it's something that is so frowned upon, why why did God put it in our body to begin with?
You know what I'm saying, that's the state itself I mean when you look at these substances, they generally don't you know, like Tanvis mckinna talks about, you know, culture is not your friend, you know, and when you take these substances, you step outside of culture. And and so that you know, it's certain laws state that if you take you know, more than so much, you're considered legally insane. If you get called so much.
You can't take so much that it really does.
Say oh yeah, LSD, all day with that.
Yeah, But that's the thing. Also, different people's mentalities are different, and these are not things to be played with lightly or just to be taking haphazardly, you know, especially with the contamination of some of these various you know, Nazi hangover drugs that are still around.
Oh, it's like, yeah, you got to have a respect for it. There's no doubt about that. Because you can do too much. And I found out the hard way once and I won't make that mistake again.
So and like I said, with the ebbs and flows of it, man, like LSD, I feel like we missed the boat. I cannot actually, genuinely, in my heart of hearts trust that name said person handing me this tab.
It's not laced with fitting all. And he may not have laced it. It might have been three prove that.
So it's just I feel like we missed the boat on trying the good ship, you know.
But there's even things out there that are completely legal as far as designer drugs coming out of m T Like, uh, they call it inn bomb or NBO and me and it's a completely legal substance, and people try to, you know, pass that off as as something it's not, you know, right, I've had friends that have had some horrible experience, and that's the one hallucinogen that you can actually overdose on.
Wow, I know that you'll.
Accelerate your heartbeat and your your blood flow. Oh, that is such an extent. It's I know it. And that's that's one hundred percent legal.
Right, And I know that you used to be you used to be able to buy salvia and gas stations, bro, Like, I'm like, fuck, I missed out on that, but I hear it's actually a pretty horrifying experience, so it's probably a good thing.
It depends. So, uh, one guy I knew that used to sell salvia. He couldn't ever do it because as soon as he would do it. There would be this Mayan character with a light of bar blue light that would come and put it up against his throat and just stare him in the eyes. Because he was making money off of it. That's that's that was his whole reasoning was been. You know, as long as he was selling it, he was abusing what it was naturally given from the earth.
Dude.
That's that's really not even that far fetched. As a matter of fact, just last night, we had a guest on Meta Mysteries and she's the creator of this app called soul Pod and really cool chick. But she was
talking about how she had done ayahuasca. She'd never done any psychedelics at all before and then tried ayahuasca and I was like, that's going right into the deep end, right, And but she says that, like you can feel like this feminine, divine presence, and yeah, it's like these these these gods or entities or energies or whatever they are
are attached to these plants plants. Yes, And you know, and it's interesting, especially whenever you get into alchemy and you're understanding that the spirit and the scientific part aspect of it. Like, you know, I think that that's why you know so many people they get bat off on alcohol or hard drugs or something like that. And it makes me wonder, what is the spirit that's attached to those things?
Right?
And we talked about alcool, which is allegedly like the spirit that's attached to alcohol alcohol, right, And I mean think about it like.
It's a spirit alcoholics that they call it a spirit, right. And and in what was it either ancient I think it was ancient Samaria or ancient Babylon. The name for the altar that they would do sacrifices on was the bar.
Oh my god, that oh I just love and then the shit dude.
But that's the thing.
It's like, if people are using it as a form of escape from the life that they're living, you're probably not going into it with the right intention right now. If you're using it to peer to the other side and you're you're mentally in a good That's the other
thing too. We've had so many people that I've talked to personally that you know, they tried psychedelics, whether it was just you know, regular regular mushrooms or whatever the case, had horrible experiences and it's like, well, hold on, are you, like, first off, suffering from depression or some sort of chemical bouts in the brain. Are you on anti depressants?
Oh?
Yeah, every day.
And it's like, oh well, then don't fucking take this Like, no, your brain needs to be in an okay place before you dive off into this.
Man.
Yeah, and you don't want to be forced into it either. It's like they say that whenever the student is ready, the teacher will appear kind of thing, and you kind of got to teach, you know, treat it like that.
And you have to be of the mindset of entering willingly for the magic to work.
Yeah.
Now, let me ask you, what was your first time trying psychedelics of any type?
Was that at a concert?
No, it was before that, just hanging out, just hanging out with friends.
You said that you were following the dead till what you were fourteen and you were on the road.
I at fourteen years old. So at fourteen years old, I threw my turnte because I was a DJ. I threw my turntables on top of my friend Ted's Honda Civic. It was like little gold hatchbacks Honda Civic and we drove from Colorado down to New Orleans, and I basically was DJing from Atlanta, Biloxi, New Orleans, like you know, and I was djying, so at an early age, I was out on the road and I really didn't hear about the Grateful Dead until probably five years into traveling
around to DJing. And then I went to a Grateful Dead show. And that was when I was starting to make my own more of my own art and making prints. And the first show I went to, I had what was it, seventy of these posters i'd made. That's a big it's a big, like twenty four about thirty poster and I set up and I was selling them for ten dollars and I sold out in half an hour, and I was like, this is what I'm doing. And so that was pretty much I jumped on the road and.
Found my knees market.
Bro, I'm gonna stick with it and go with the money's going just call me in now.
Fuck yeah basically so yeah, so, and then the Grateful Dead. Once Jerry died, I jumped. I'd already been bouncing back and forth between Grateful Dead and Fish. Then I jumped on Fish. They went on hiatus, and I'd been jumping back and forth between cheese and fish. Then I jumped on cheese, cheese took hiatus, I ended up going into the festival scene. So you know, it's been a long, convoluted process of learning experience, you know.
And I would guess that delving into psychedelics, and I do not know to the levels and depths and what all you've tried and whatever, but I would assume that that has drastically helped you as an artist.
Am I about accurate there?
You know? At one point I was doing quite a bit. These days not so much anymore. But at the same time, it gives you that ability to look outside yourself, to see the bigger picture, to kind of uh look at your faults and correct them, you know. And you go back to the old mystery schools, and it was always about the idea of know thyself, you know, and live
in just accordance, live in truth, you know. And and that's what the whole uh trinity of logic, rhetoric and fallacy, you know, within the trivium is all about, you know. And that's basically you know, Jesus says, I Am the Truth, the Way, and the light, you know. So it's like this idea of what is the truth? You know, and and that's why we dig, that's why we try to understand. That's why we try to get this cohesive like uh, you know, overstanding or understanding or whatever you want to
call it. You know.
Oh yeah, dude, dude, I was actually I was just doing a little bit of research on your boy, Nimrod, and uh turns out he may have been one of the original motherfuckers. Uh he married his wife allegedly.
He was the original cook hold sit so yeah, because he would basically watch the religious sex rights and be the high priest of the rights. And he was called as cook hold yeap.
To Move if I'm not mistaken, which was his son again depending on what literary source of reading, of course, with all respect, uh to Moves fucked his wife, which would have been to MOSE's mom, and Ron cut his dick off and throw it in the water, and then somebody went in and reattached it to Tomus allegedly, and it was like his dad being reborn in his son's body father something.
It's it's so old.
Now should we take these things literally or is it more symbolically in your opinion?
So from the from the stance of the kinghood or the queen hood. There was this constant thing that you see Osiris is with isis right, And when Osiris dies, she births Horace, and and then she marries Horace, and then Horace becomes more worshiped of her, and the same thing with Samaramis. And so you constantly have this uh turning over of the father becoming the son and the queen marrying the son as the energy of the father.
And that's why I say maybe these titles were handed down through the lineages in order to maintain kingship, you know. But yeah, that's a common thing you see of the mother marrying the offspring as the father, which kind of gets into the inner relationship of the trinity itself, you know.
Yeah, especially the Egyptian religion too.
If you look at any of the stories of the Egyptian gods and their parentage and the hijinks they got into. And we've talked about this on the show, Toad wearing his calm crown and that whole thing, and it's like, well, where did that come from?
Well, that this uncle and his nephew.
Were having an issue, and apparently he tried raping him, but then instead he jacked off on some cabbage and he ate it.
And it's a very wild story, very well.
But it's not like Egypt was the only one that had wild stories that. I mean, hell, most of the Greek and Roman Pantheonic religions were based on Zeus slash Jupiter fucking everything that moved everything to deal with the with the offspring, and that was a whole thing around the Mediterranean pretty much since the beginning.
And I don't know if you're supposed to even take those things literally though, you know, I think that it's more supposed to be symbolically like in that sense, and like what can you understand from it esoterically? I can't imagine the tholth was walking around with an actual fucking gum crown, Like, let's just be real, you know.
So the thing is, when you look at the ideas of initiation into these mystery schools, right when you first become initiated, they teach you all the symbols, They teach you the esoteric story that is the function, right, and
then as you move higher through the different levels. At each level they explain the depth of the symbol to you and so as you become higher and higher, you have a more cohesive kind of just like with conspiracy, just like you know, you have a deeper understanding of the depth of the waters that you're wading into.
You know, very very similar to how that, I would say, potentially Freemasonry would be a modern mystery school of sorts, right, And yet they take the notes from so many others, and there's yes, the world not they fine, fine, fine, But each level that you ascend to ascend their word, not mine. They teach you a new word, a new past or, a new phrase, a new a new schedule exactly. And it's all they call it your seeking knowledge. You're seeking the light and how far down your travels are.
You, fellow traveler.
All of that is very very connected, and I would say like a second cousin to the mystery schools of old ye.
So now when you look at Free Mason, the Free Masonic orders, right, they directly trace them themselves back to Adonis and Aphrodite in tai year, who were the workmen, the Ghibbelites that went and helped Solomon build the temple. They were the sacred temple builders of Greece, building the theaters and the temples, so, you know, and and back
to Nimrod again. They say Nimrod was the first Freemason, and Pele, this guy Peleg, who is the architect of the Tower of Babel, he was the second Freemason, you know. So it the the freemason modern Freemason movement directly traces themselves back to Nimrod and the mystery schools in all form and fashion. You know. So they are basically a modern simulacra of the Mystery schools, which I believe is basically used as the gentelia of government for recruiting people into state craft.
You know, I could see that, honestly, or at least at least at one point it was. I will say modern Freemasonry is on the drastic decline, to be honest, so are most organizations. The Roman Club, Alliance Club, all of them see less and less numbers.
But as I've talked to a few guys that used.
To be Freemasons and like older gentlemen, right, and they they actually blame their words, color TV and the Internet for why it's all going on the decline.
I was like, what do you mean by that?
It's like, well, most guys have something better to do with their time on a random Tuesday night than go.
To the lodge for a meeting, you know what I mean. That used to be, like, what else are you gonna do on a Tuesday night?
Well, you know, I got me and my boys. We're gonna go and do a little some ceremonial things. Then we're gonna have drinks and just afterwards. Right, swords got some shit these days, like you could just watch your show because they didn't have those types of forms of
entertainment or anything else back in those days. So I think there's a little bit of that to it, But I also think there's more and more people who have left these types of organizations with so many bad reports, and because of the Internet, the word has spread and been sensationalized in such a way. But the the truth to it all, I think, is still there. It's just not many people are interested in it like they used
to be, and speak of Tuesday nights. By the way, that's why we chose Tuesday night to have our cult Member live show. So if you want to be involved in any of our live shows, you want to be able to get the shows a couple of days in advance.
You want to be able to have. Then you come over to patreon dot com slash Cult of Conspiracy Podcast, and if you can sign up for the Third Eye All the Way Open tier, you'll get to come hang out with us every single Tuesday night. It is wild. You never really know what to expect because it's just one giant conspiratorial thought orgy that is going on, and it is awesome. We go from far end to far end to wherever your imagination can take you, and you
can ask us anything. We can bounce things back and forth, and it's just one great community and it's the best way to be able to support the show. So we appreciate all the good cult members who have done so.
Yeah, I like that you phrased it, though, I'm gonna start using that it's a conspiratorial thought orgy.
Hell yeah, it's good Cult members.
Listening to this episode. Come check us out on Patreon. It is like Jonathan said, the best way to sport the show.
I didn't hold that one right out the ether, bro, I don't even know where the fuck that came from.
I mean, natural segues don't present themselves often, but when they do, you just gotta take advantage.
Yeah, anyway.
Anyway, So, yeah, I have a question as far as Freemasons and other modern day mystery schools. At modern I mean within the last one hundred and fifty years, let's just say, it seems like a lot of these modern day mystery schools get a very bad rep whenever you're talking about the Rosicrucians or the Freemasons, you name them. The list goes on and on the order of the Golden Dawn and order temporal orientis or whatever, the Illuminati, right,
and it always seems to be something evil. You know, that there's that they're controlling the world, or they're doing sacrifices or you know, to get to the thirty third degree within Freemasonry, you got to announce that Satan is your god or whatever. And it's like, why why does it have like this negative kind of connotation if if you're really only just searching for truth, is the truth negative at that point? Like what's the whole purpose of it if you're not seeking truth but just power?
Right?
Yeah?
And I think, uh, you know a lot of these these various simula recults, they offer a frontist story, but when you get into the higher levels, much like DOT, when you watch Doctor Strange how he finds out that his guru is actually you know, tapping into this evil source for her good projections. It's very yin and yang. You know, within all good, there is that that point of evil. Within all evil, there is that point of good.
And you know what was that the read the recent proton that they were able to photograph is a yin and yang symbol. Yeah, you know so again you know, as far as the decline of freemasonry, they're telling those same mystery stories on the television we're watching now. Yeah, you know, so it's just another way to uh uh indoctrinate, not necessarily, but initiate people into these these kind of higher concepts.
And you brought up Doctor Strange. I think that that is a perfect example, not even only just of Doctor Strange, but Disney as a whole. It does seem to be very symbolic with everything that they do, and and most of the time the movies and shows are for the young ones, for the youth, and it makes you wonder, is it kind of an initiatory process to help with awakening or is it more mk ultra We're going to poison the minds. I've got it both.
Yeah, yeah, and I've I've heard that, you know, I've come across that concept over time numerous times, the idea that that like they have to plunge you into the darkness in order to awaken your mind. Let's go, you know, so it's a necessary function of you know, then like doom, the sleeper must awaken.
You know.
It's like it's this concept of how, you know, how do you shake people into higher levels of thinking? You know, And and then you debate was m k LTRA a good thing or was mk LTRA a bad thing? Like what are they trying to create people that thought? Different?
Different mindsets? Bringing about you know, when Crick discovered when he discovered the DNA he had he was on LSD and he imagined what it was going to look like and then they found it, you know, And when you get into these microprocessors and the people in Silicon Valley in the microdosing and all these different it's a way to uh, you know, expand the possibilities of of you know, the unthinkable.
So it's kind of like the force. Then it doesn't doesn't necessarily matter if it's good or bad. It's it's a tool, right, I've seen.
A lot of people.
Actually I watched this little mini doc once I was talking about it's actually Disney Movies is since like eighty five to now, right, and not every single flick that has come out has done this, but it seems to be an initiatory step into modern day agnosticism, right, and a lot of and the mean, sure, we could look at like Mowana right now, he's a demi god, and it's talking about a pantheon of other gods hercules, a whole group of God's fine, fine and fine aside from
the ones that obviously are gonna have demi gods and things like this, there's like a reason why the main character only has one parent, or has to go through some sort of crazy trivial thing, or has to always as super young exactly. And it's always when you break it down to what the Gnostics were teaching, and not just the whole story about uh, well, everybody thinks God's the good guy, but like what if he's not, because that's.
The fine, fine.
But as far as the hero's journey of it, as far as the lessons learned, as far as the the Odyssey, if you will of it, all It's almost like Disney has been soft launching this generation to be more gnostic than more traditional.
I mean, and you could argue that it goes back even farther and look back to Walt Disney and who he was associated with, right, like, all the way back he was friends with fucking Warner von Braun and you know Jack Parsons and shit like that wasn't.
He Gebels came over and supposedly trained under Disney. And then you from what I understand, Disney, Walt when he was in the army, he got a dishonorable discharge so he couldn't own property. So all that property that became Disneyland basically was his brother Roy. And then I've read that Hoover came down and was involved in setting up all the tunnels underneath Disney. And then you know Walt himself was demolet as a child, which is premasonry for children.
And then you have the thirty three Club that you have to have the secret password to get into. That's there. There's you know, a lot, and again back to Epcot and how they tell you we're going to capture your imagination and we're going to show you the future you know, these are these are tools of engineering the mind.
Yesely it didn't.
I'm glad that they just made it to where Disney is in its own country now, because for a good minute there up until it was like twenty two twenty three, is not that Like DeSantis was like, no, you're not going to make your own laws on your theme park.
Fuck you, You're a part of Florida. And Disney had to push back.
They hired all the lawyers they could to try to maintain their state ship, which.
Yeah, they actually ended up trying to use a British Commonwealth law that they were associated under that goes back to England. Yeah, through the course of that lawsuit. And yeah, it isn't because they were basically a sovereign nation unto themselves.
You know, itself to a lot of these sovereign citizen types who still think they like America's owned by England and were a part of the Commonwealth, please look to what happened at Disney.
No, we're not.
Because they tried that argument and got their dick slapped over it. That's not how it works anymore. But yeah, you know, people being people. But I mean, even with that said thing, Canada didn't actually get its own full independence until like nineteen eighty one, Like they were given a little bit more autonomy, a little bit more autonomy
for like, you know, for however long. Then finally in eighty one, it's like, fine, you're fully your own country, but the Queen's still staying on your money.
And it's like they still and they still use the queen scepter in the parliament, basically the queen or the king now king chuck you the third giving authority to them to make the rule. And anytime there was a point in the nineties where the queen disagreed and she actually took the scepter and dissolved the parliament. They brought all new people in and she gave them the scepter again.
You know. So it's you know, that's the whole when you get into the ideas of liberty, quality, fraternity that the Freemasons and the Illuminati and coming out of the mystery schools were preaching about the fire in the mind to be kindled and the overthrow of crown and altar. You know, it gets deep.
Yeah, and see that's the thing they can't come to the American Congress. The king is not coming to Congress and saying, yeah, you're all fired.
I don't like you anymore. You need to change up.
They can do that to Canada, they can do that to Australia, New Zealand all these other Commonwealth countries.
America is not that. But I digress anyway.
I want to ask you, Robbie, I've been really looking into people like to call me a new Ager Jacob loves that or woo woo and stuff like that. And to be honest, I used to take it as kind of like almost like a little slight, not like it's like a brotherly love kind of slight. You know, I never intended as such, but of course, of course, and so I've been really looking into a lot of this
kind of stuff. And you know, what are your thoughts on the New Age movement or the New Age philosophy whenever people are just kind of gathering all this information from all different times and all different peoples from around the world and utilizing it as a whole and collecting them altogether in a sense, do you think that that is silly by any means? Or do you think that that might be the next wave of spirituality in a sense?
Right right there, is a prophecy that the next great wave of spirituality will come from the North American continent. You know. But we are in a time of revelation. We have all of this information available to swirling around, and that it's simply that it's information. You know, it's not fully formed and coagulated. You know, we're dealing with all these piece is trying to put this information into some solid form, and some of those systems line up.
Some of those systems don't. I think when you look back at a lot of what the New Age movement is, you can trace that back to Madame Blovotsky and what ended up coming into the ideas of the German people as the Vulk, you know, and Hitler being a vegetarian and kind of this whole. You know. I think there are some faults with it, But at the same time, I think the amalgamation again is generally edifying those who choose to look.
I feel that same way. I think that you can apply, you know, a lot of different spiritual beliefs together and try and form some kind of picture. And to be honest, dude, ever since I was a little kid, you know, I wasn't raised in a religious household. We barely ever went to church. I think we went like two or three times in my whole childhood. Same here and and so. I you know, but I had heard that other people had different religions and there's all these different sectors of Christianity,
which as a young kid, I just didn't understand. I was like, what does that even mean? Like, it's it's one book. How do you have so many different you know, denominations of it and stuff like that. But I kind of always thought, even from a young age, that that in order to get the full story, maybe you got to look at all of the information and not just
one source of the information. And I mean some people may deem that as silly or or whatever, but I feel like, you know, I think that whenever you're able to kind of grasp what the entire world has been talking about and what other people have discovered it, it doesn't it leaves uh because all right, for example, I know that there's going to be like people have questions that can't be answered in one specific religion or another right.
And I think that whenever you gather all the information together, it kind that helps paint the picture about what your experience or what your thought process or or whatever your question may be, whatever you group, you know, all the different thoughts together in a sence, you know what I mean?
Oh yeah, yeah, And you know that's kind of going through the histories over all these years. That's kind of what I've been doing. Isaac Newton was even trying to write a you know these there's been chronologiers through history that try to say these things and move Egypt up, move Egypt back, you know. But that's the thing. When
was something written, how does that affect the storyline? And then you come into this great age of publishing in the eighteen hundreds when you have all these people early on, you know, the Orientalists and the and they're trying to amalgamate all these things, and you know, mising, I think it's always best to go back to the source texts, you know, when you're looking at this stuff. But it's nice to see, you know. And my interpretation of Nimrod, as far as him being a skinwalker, is just me
analyzing the texts and coming to a conclusion. Somebody else may come to a different conclusion, you know, but I just I think that, you know, in a lot of ways, it has lessons to offer. But at the same time it's become a form of entertainment for sure.
And I think that interpretation has always been something that people bicker about, and you know, maybe there's always some kind of divide. Oh it means this, No, it means that. No, it means this, and and you know, who knows, dude, we're talking about certain documents that are two, three, four or five thousand years old. We don't even know if they were thinking the same way that we think.
That they They chances are they. Then there's this whole idea that up to a certain point during the Roman Empire, people didn't have what they would think of as a conscience, and they believe that like Plato's damon, the idea of this day moon was the beginning of this internal voice basically starting to reason and and you know, say don't
touch the hot stove. You know, so you know, how did people think and what caused and then you know, all the storytelling affected the way that they thought that William Burrows he says that the pyramids in South America were attention stealers and basically when you were around them that they would suck your attention out of your body, and that the mind calendar itself was a form of mind control in the fact that every day you would wake up and the little symbols that you would have
each day would tell you what the day was about and how to think about that day, so that all the people thought in a similar manner, you know, long before we have television or radio or you know, reading and writing.
Potentially ancient mass hypnosis going on there.
Yeah, yeah, Burrows, he's a he's a chaos magician.
So okay, fair enough, fair enough.
I don't know if I would say necessarily that the conscience, the internal dialogue.
I don't know when exactly that would have.
Started, because I mean, evolutionarily speaking, they'll say it started when Homo sapien sapiens began around all this, But like we're talking about looking at the ancient sources, at the source itself, right, And I brought this up a few times on the show. You look at the writings of Marcus Aurelius, right the beginning of Stoicism and then and for the record, that was a personal journal. He never intended to get published at all.
He would be humiliated if.
He knew we were reading it right now, right, that was his innermost thoughts. And when you read this, you see that people have been peopling since the beginning of time.
Yeah.
Right, So the whole theory that maybe.
Conscious not consciousness, but having a conscience started at a certain point. I see this because I mean, you look at the ancient Spartan culture. It was good and noble and righteous to go rape your slave population, murder them once a year.
You're a good man for doing that.
To another civilization that would see that as barbarous, right, And you look at the Aztecs, it is good and righteous for you to sacrifice your first born to the rain god to make the rains come this year.
Look at it same.
Time frame, another culture that's barbarous. So I don't know if I would say that the conscious the innermost thoughts started at a certain point. I will say that they have been shifted or they've been based off of the culture in the timeframe that somebody has found themselves in.
And it is very fascinating to look back at the ancients and at these sources themselves, not somebody's interpretation, the actual sources, to see they felt, what they thought, what they were using these four practices with principles.
It all encompasses, you know.
The meanings have evolved. It seems exactly.
Yeah, like you want the first guy to have a thought and write it down. That might be one of the earliest two survived to today. But like he had teachers, who had teachers, who had.
He learned from Socrates, I think, right, Plato so creats yeah.
Yeah, And I mean he had a teacher, and look at the Buddha. He had a teacher, he had a Yoki, he had a guru. That guru had a guy that he looked to for enlightenment knowledge, and that goes all the way back. So I mean, it's it's interesting to see where we can kind of pinpoint the big milestones, if you will.
And I think, you know, you have these intrinsic sacramental religious functions that are sacred and are attuned to the earth and potentially the movements of the heavens, and and I think those there was a purest element that developed culturally, you know. And then I think what you see is any anytime something gains too much power that it's co opted by the state and it becomes weaponized. It becomes
utilized as a power function. So you know, looking at the like I said, the original Mithra coming out of the Indo Aryan cultures of the Scythians in India, and then comparing that to the Roman mythricism of Luciferian bull slay. You know, the diametric difference is the two extremes of the strip, you know, So it depends on where thing is in time and at what point was it possibly co opted.
Yeah, and yeah, and like bastardized, not so much bastardized, but more so like inverted, like because you can take information as a lot of like I know, like a bunch of magicians and stuff like that. You can take information and invert it and still almost like pull the power from it in the same kind of way, which
is really strange. Like think about the pentagram upward or or or right side up or downward, whatever, there still seems to be some magic to be gained, whether it's from the dark or the light in that sense esoterically speaking, right right, right, Well, look, Robbie, this was awesome, dude. I to be honest, we we kind of went into this not really knowing what to expect, and you are just full of these stories and a lot of this knowledge, and so we appreciate you coming to hang out with us.
Man, I'm definitely full of it.
Now, are we all? What's that?
When does the book drop?
Oh? I sent the last chapter to the editor like three days ago, because what happened was he had gone through it a couple times. I think he read it five times before he sent me a message and he said he'd never read a book like this. He's been editing books for thirty years, and he said he'd never read a book like this before. But nonetheless, he said, there's one part where I need to basically branch off and go into Addis and a Donna, which I was
trying to kind of stay away from. But at the same time, once I was into it, I saw how relevant it was, and so I wrote a chapter on Addison and Donnis and shot that off to him. And I mean, we've got some work as far as a synopsis has to be done. There's a few notes I want to interlace in still, and then I'm working on thirteen illustrations for it as well right now.
So we're still a little bit of ways away from it being released to the pulp are we think?
In twenty twenty five or twenty six, you think.
I would like to get it done for maybe Christmas release around time there, you know, but we are definitely getting close. And then, you know, that's a whole other thing. Once the text is fully edited and we have all the illustrations and everything done, then it's a matter of manufacture and what's the turntime based on paper availability and you know, and then we have all these tariffs going on, and what's that going to cost us in the long run,
hopefully less than the short run more. I don't know, you can never trust in anything. It's it's you know, you're walking on the waves of the sea basically.
Yeah, yeah, it definitely seems like that. Well look, I mean, we would love to get you back on especially whenever your book comes out, but I if that's going to be a little while longer, we can definitely do it again before that. Because this was a fascinating conversation.
Man, holler at me, man, I'm basically I'm around here until mid June and then I take off and I'll be back in September.
Okay, very well, all right, Well if you would, if you don't mind, could you let all of our good cult members know where they can find you, and all your works.
Are Yeah, if you want to check out my artwork, my metamind cast podcast, if you want to check out my etsy, and I would encourage if you enjoy the information and you want to give back, go check out my etsy on my website and buy some art. That's the best way to support me. And you can check out my with all the links. You can find them at my link tree which is link tree r M A r X. And then I'll pull up everything I've got perfect.
I knew I liked you. We both have podcasts with Meta in it. Jacob, could we get some knife fans up in this, Beyonce?
We can, we can, but real quick, just like Robbie just said, Look, nothing's really sure in this world. Okay, we have no idea what these tarifs, what's gonna happen economically, financially, all these things. But you know what is one thing that you can bet on we'll still maintain a value regardless of what these things will do.
Is silver and gold bullyon.
And if you would like to get your start in the buying and selling and trading of silver and gold Bollyan minted coins, things and stuff. Come check us out of ceocsilver dot com lincause then in the description below, our boy Wane Clark will be the one to reach out to you.
He is a homie of the highest regard and a full on cult member. He and his family.
As a matter of fact, that's how we even got connected with him was his son and daughter in law, who are full fledged cult members like the rest of our find ladies and gentlemen. And uh yeah, if you would like to get your start in this listen, I'm not telling you that this is going to lead to your financial success to the future. What I am saying is that diversifying your portfolio. Okay, And I know that's a big word here, having a little bit of an iron in this fire and a little bit of an
iron in this fire. Look, there's nothing wrong actually at all with having a little bit of an iron in the fire of precious metals. The best way to get your start is to go to cecsilver dot com again link in the description below. But if you would like to support the show in another way, what you could do is please at this time hit the five stars, hit the shares of licenscribes to comments, leave a postly reviews, shares, hit their friends of faibly, shares septywhere Here's a deal.
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That being said, this was another beautiful episode of the Cult of Conspiracy. And my name's Jonathan, I'm Jacob, and there's one very important, extremely vital piece of information we need you to learn just as soon as humanly possible.
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