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Hello, and welcome back to the Nineties night. This is the third and final installment, and I have saved the best for last. Joining me today is a very special guest, Golby. How are you good?
How are you?
I'm so great? Are you nostalgic about the nineties?
I mean it's the four of me growing up? For sure? I know you were born in ninety four and you call yourself a nineties kid, And that was a.
Deep, deep bet. You call yourself a nineties kid.
Well, I'm just telling you I was born in eighty three, and I don't consider myself an eighties kid. I mean as far as like being in elementary school goes and learning the things that I'm into and having hobbies, and all my memories are from the nineties. I might have a few scattered memories from the eighties, but I feel like I grew up in the nineties. So we just look at it differently.
Well, agree to disagree. I have to say some of my most fond memories are probably from the early two thousands. I'm not gonna lie, but I definitely remember being a kid in the nineties.
Okay, so maybe I'll just rephrase it. My formationeers were the nineties, fair enough. Oh yeah, all my memories just many of the things that shaped me into the person I am, and they're all nineties events.
So yeah, well, you have gotten to see me putting together these episodes. So you have heard some of the some of our friends talking about their experiences from the nineties, and I think it's really cool because everybody kind of says something a little bit different, and they bring up something that I've either forgotten about or something that's like really just individual to them. And since you're here, give us your give us your nineties' best memory. Snippet for the listeners.
Well, I kind of feel like mine's not going to be exactly organic, because I did have several things on my mental list when you told me about this, and then you showed me a lot of others from your family, brands, other podcasters and Managerred a lot of memories for me. But if I'm to try to be honest about it, I would say the nineties makes me think of like
cartoons in the morning when you wake up. I guess I would have been seven in nineteen ninety, so at the beginning of the nineties, you know, I'm starting to become a little kid and find out all sorts of stuff about the world through the propaganda on TV. You know, the food that we were sold during those Saturday morning commercials, and then a lot of the stuff that's come out recently about the people making those commercials. I mean just not even debatable at this point. But you know, there
was something pure about it back then. You didn't know that you were being mk uldred at every turn when it came to TV. But there was also like a different world back then. You could play outside, you know, come in at dark for dinner, no cell phones, all that kind of stuff is how I remember growing up. And then the technology kind of came as the two thousands rolled around, So I was, you know, almost out of high school by then.
But do you remember babysitting me?
Right?
And then there's the stuff like the Chicago Bulls really big. Your brother mentioned that, and that was a huge part of the nineties for me, was watching that thing go down. Oh J Simpson. A couple of things we're going to be talking about today. I think with you know, me becoming kind of radicalized because of things like Ruby Ridge, Waco, Oklahoma City bombing, even though back then I kind of took it at face value what happened there. And I mean the Heavens Gates cult, Oh God, one of my
darkest memories as a kid. I got obsessed with it. I think I was about in seventh grade.
We are going to talk about that today.
Cool. I didn't know about that, and yeah, so I wrote a report on that in like seventh grade, and I just always liked that kind of shit and I didn't sleep for a week after looking into that one. I was probably a little too young to kind of soak it in without getting scared.
But uh, did you watch Tales from the Crypt I did.
Yeah, I thought it was kind of cheesy.
Oh really, I loved it.
Yeah.
I mean what like you and I both like horror, there's an overlapping that we like. But I can't do the cheesy stuff and like geek out on it.
It's got to be that you didn't even like that one wo do me Moore Orsh marries that big fat guy.
I don't know if I remember that. That was a dude.
That was a good episode.
So that was the TV show.
Yeah, it's a TV show.
Yeah, I know that because they did the TV show and then they did a movie later.
Yeah, I think they did.
Yeah, I had the the fuck head from Titanic, he was in it. But yeah, the show, I kind of liked more stuff like goosebumps and shit. Oh yeah, because that was like early nineties and they had you know, I remember the very first book that came out in that series, and that Shits. They're still reviving that today.
So I did save some of the best topics for last just to talk about some of the heavier subjects are easier, definitely when two people are covering them instead of one, and we do have different opinions. About some stuff and different. I don't know, like I tend to look at things more like spirituality wise sometimes, and I think you look at more like the facts and figures
and shit. But something that I want to do before we get started today is mention a few things that I've covered from my previous episodes and just see what you think. So you mentioned the OJ thing and the
not so high speed chase. You remember because it was like, oh, it's a high speed chase if you really watch it, he's not going that fast, not at all supposed to have like a gun to his head or something like so in that in my first episode, I said that if you don't want to believe that OJ did it, maybe just maybe if Nicole really was trans and there's kind of like this Menindez brother type of crime of
passion thing going on. There's a lot of theories that maybe OJ's first son from his first marriage could have done it. Where are you at on that? Because I mean, for me, when I look at somebody who gets killed so brutally the way that she did, it's it just reeks of like this wasn't random, This is an act of passion. There is like a weird trans thing going on. Maybe she's sexual, and just tell me what you think.
But maybe there's a weird sexual thing going on. If it wasn't OJ, maybe he just helped his son kind of like clean up his mess. What do you think about that?
Well, are you asking me what I think about your theory in particular or what my theory on it is?
I guess both. Really.
I mean, if we're going to say that this is actually something that really happened.
Oh see, here we go.
So you you know, you and I did a series before this one, Blood Ties, where I'm convinced certain things never really happened. Like you're sitting over here saying, oh, it's all Roman. It's Roman that got Sharon killed, And I'm like, she probably didn't die if she was even a real person to begin with.
That's where that's why I like to get your opinion on. So we are different in that way.
And I actually, you know, talk to me ten years ago when I was your age or a year older than you are now. I would say I wouldn't have thought all this shit was staged back then.
But you don't think there's a level of spirituality to it with him being involved in like the process or Rosemary's Baby. Not to like dive way off the subject, but I mean.
Oh, I think it's a good thing to bring up, because I didn't interrupt you when you said that you're more spiritual than me.
I don't don't think I'm more spiritual. I just think I have a tendency to look at things like that, like, oh, it's Satanists, or oh it's this or that fucking sigils.
And I don't even like the word spiritual when I'm trying to talk about what I believe because I'm an absurdist. I take reality as something that you have to enjoy by laughing at. So I'm not saying I'm an atheist, because I've never been an atheist, but I'm not religious. And I do think there's some kind of spiritual dance going on here, and certain people have a lot more knowledge about what it is and how to manipulate and control it, and those are the people that seem to
be pulling the strings. So I do think if you want to use the word spiritual, it is all spiritual. I don't look at which craft is Satanism, and I don't look at like the light side being Christianity, which is where you and I would diverge. But I do think there's something very spiritual going on, and especially when the manipulation levels, like we're talking about OJ Simpson right now.
And it's probably been within the last four years that I've started to look at all this stuff a lot differently, just because when I started my podcast, I really dove into Operation Mockingbird and I really saw what they were putting their money into, and that shit, the budget's only gone up on that stuff. I don't give a fuck what they said after the Church Committee that they stopped all that. We all know they didn't. It's all very apparent. So these big sensationalized events, I think a lot of
them are completely staged with actors. They're actually playing, you know, the public version of themselves. O. J. Simpson, Nicole Brown. They'd be two people that were just acting in this. So I mean, I do sound more like human vibrations every day, But I'm not willing to think that everything is fake. But I think these really big ones are. And I think if we're going to say West Memphis three.
That was nineties, that was nineties, I think you haven't oh.
Yeah, it is in here, So manson killings, all that stuff that we've talked about. I would love that, I say, is possibly staged. I would link the OJ Simpson trial in with that most efficly.
Can we play Devil's advocate and say it really happened? Who do you think did it?
Oj?
Okay?
Because yeah, there's a lot of fun theories if this really did happen, like yeah, maybe the sun did it. I just never really look that anything other than what happened as a result of it. And it used to be My opinion was goddamn OJ was lucky that all that shit in LA had just went down and people wanted to stick it to the LAPD for racial reasons. And that is the mainstream narrative of that case. You
can watch the What is It? Thirty on thirty ESPN documentary series and it's a very compelling case because they do link it all together so nicely. But go a step above that, and why not think it was all scripted to shift culture nineties? Was it you mentioned that
cultural shift? Yep? It was, and these things that like another one that I didn't mention in my little thing that I did there a few minutes ago OJ Simpson to me is very parallel with Princess Die because I found out about both of them from my mom in the car. I think she was picking me up from basketball camp or something in the summer. That must have been Princess Die. Didn't that happen in the summer. I don't remember when OJ that the low speed chase.
Low speed I should I should always say low speed chase from here on out, because that's what it was, But I can't remember. I think it was in the summertime, though.
It seems like they both were in my memory.
And weird thing that I can cover it in a whole episode and forget two days later. What the fuck? I said?
Well, you're talking about so much, right?
Oh?
Is that all you wanted to say about OJ? Do you think he did it? The glove don't fit? You must have quit? I mean, if I'm looking at I think it was really there was a You don't think that there was something odd though about the cast of characters they rolled out for this, like the Kardashian and all that shit.
I think that just lends more credence to my theory that it was casted.
You're right, You're right, Yeah, definitely be right about that.
I think John Gusty and you talked about this. I don't remember if it was when we all swapcasted or when you had him on alone, but he mentioned, yeah, it's the birthplace of the Kardashian family. Is like, is that a mistake?
But a lot of people would say that they're all just witches anyways.
Well they all are, right, Well they're casting spells on us.
That's how I think they're.
The ultimate witches, because it's a clan of transgender.
Dude, dude, how do you feel about Chloe Kardashian being OJ's You know what else? I just saw recently Chloe Kardashian is somehow Elvis' daughter.
So we're getting into like weird shit.
I don't fucking know. Really, it was on Instagram and somebody was saying, look at the bone structure and da da da da da. But if I was going to pick between Elvis and OJ, I would definitely say OJ.
I mean, she does look like she could be half black.
And she also looks like a linebacker.
And she doesn't even look like the same person anymore.
But oh no, she got her whole skeleton redone.
At this point, you probably know more about them in general. I just know very surface level stuff about the Kardashians. I know it even as a conspiracy theorist. They're fun to look into. I've just never been fascinated by him, but it's it's it'd be a shame to overlook the fact that the O. J. Simpson trial basically set the stage for that whole thing to happen in reality TV what less than ten years later, maybe ten years later. I don't know exactly when they popped onto the scene.
I just remember I was working on construction crew when I first moved to Ashland, and the guy I worked with was like, what do you think Kim Kardashian And it was just like U slap in the face of where society was at that point, Like this guy to break the ice asks me what I think of Kim Kardashian and I just said, she's all right. He's like, dude, she's the hottest thing ever.
Yeah, she's the hottest thing ever.
I mean she's not ugly.
She also has had her face it's done a hundred times, so I mean, nobody's ugly when they have the money to fix it. Well, something else I mentioned in the second episode is Nickelodeon and a lot of the weird stuff with the petos and shit. One thing I forgot to mention while I recorded that Nickelodeon part is that Brian Peck I believe was pin pals with John Wayne Gacy and I just fucking found that out.
Yeah, I think I heard you mentioned that on the wrap up episode you did with Jonathan and Jacob, and I didn't. I don't think i'd heard that before.
I hadn't. I hadn't heard it either, But the you know, doesn't it just seem weird to you how sometimes like think two separate things you can be researching can be connected in some weird way.
It happens all the time.
Yeah, It's like, randomly, I decided to cover the nineties right after we did that Blood Tie series, and it's like, oh, this guy who was raping kids on Nickelodeon was pin pals with Gacy? Really he is?
I mean, come on, just can't be surprised at this point.
I mean, I just hadn't heard of that, and I was like, what the fuck. It's like it's always some type of interconnected, like weird peedo ring, you know what I mean. So, but kind of getting into today's episode, I wanted to just say briefly, some of the major events coming out of the nineties would include the disillusion of the Soviet Union, Persian Gulf War, Hubble Telescope was launched, nineteen ninety two Los Angeles riots, And one of the
things my brother mentioned was the Columbine shootings. And that's something that I had never really looked into that much until I watched American Horror Story season one, because he goes in the school and he shoots all those kids and shit, and I was like, they put a lot of conspiracy stuff in American Horror Story, and I kind of got to looking into the Columbine. But what is your take on it?
It to me is the prototype of a phenomenon that was basically unheard of back then. School shootings were happening, but for some reason, this one was the mold and you get psychotoptropic drugs, music, video games, supposed homosexuality, so
some early stages LGBTQ stuff. I mean, this case has it all, and most importantly, it takes place in a upper class white high school that same year, maybe a year before there's one I think it was Pennsylvania, and don't quote me on that, but it was upper northeast corner of the country somewhere, and it had all the markings to be the first one. But for some reason they didn't sensationalize that one. This one they did. And there's just all sorts of stuff that you can tie
to it. Marilyn Manson, he claims he was sitting in a hotel room saw that breakout of the news and he looked at his manager and said, they're going to blame me for this. That's his story, and he definitely rode that into fame. Now, I believe this shooting was in nineteen ninety nine, so when I think of nineties, it technically is nineties. But the Matrix came out in
ninety nine. They also tried to blame that movie because in the big shootout scene where Neo and Trinity break into the building they need to get to the top of they have a big shootout and they've got all their guns stashed in their trench coats, and then this trench coat mafia language starts happening with the Columbine shooting. It's just I mean, out of this list, you just went through Soviet Union, Golf War, Hubble, Telescope, La Riots.
This is the one that I think is definitely the most conspiracy driven.
Well that's why I mentioned it last is because if you were to say any of those things to someone and say what do you remember about the Persian Gulf War, They'd be like, oh, you know, I don't know. And you mentioned Columbine, People's fucking eyes light up. Everybody has some type of knowledge about Columbine.
Yeah.
I mean, if you get into like the libertarian leaning conspiracy crowd, they're gonna remember the Persian Gulf War as being like the prototype for foreign invasion that was gonna take over in a new way with this highly advanced technology we had where we could decimate the other side without hardly any casualties. And it wasn't a golf war. It was a golf fucking I mean, we went in there and basically it was I guess incursion would be a better word, is that, Yeah, encouraging. It was not
a war. Bill Hicks had a famous choke about the Persian Gulf War, so pre Alex Jones, Bill Hicks he liked to say that there has to be two sides fighting for it to be a war, and I mean we had this missile technology that they were showing on television. It was like the Vietnam War all over again.
Where so you remember this?
Oh yeah, I was in elementary school.
Was I born yet?
No, this would have been a couple of years before you, So it would have been like it was hw Bush's thing and it was god maybe ninety one, I think ninety two it came to.
A head and then the Los Angeles riots.
Well yeah, so that's the stuff that you could say that OJ Simpson verdict was the blowback of that. It was the La riots and they call them race riots in some circles. And this is spawned the Rodney King thing too. He became, i mean a pseudo celebrity after all that. But people say that was the direct cause of the you know, not guilty verdict for Oj. Was Cochrane came in there and kind of put the lapd on trial.
Well, I obviously don't remember the shit because I wasn't fucking alive. But I wasn't alive. Yeah, I was Columbine. I was alive. You said it was ninety nine. My brother said that after Columbine, like the whole fucking school culture changed too, and like people couldn't just come and visit you at school anymore. You had to like be beeped in and badged in and shit.
It's very similar to the nine to eleven airport.
Say, I was gonna say, like they opted all the fucking security and shit, and like this was obviously by design.
Now, I grew up in a very po dunk town. I had sixteen kids in my graduating class. And before Columbine you could have your fucking hunting gun in the back of your vehicle for stopping by the lake to shoot a duck on your way home. And there's plenty of students that did duck kind of stuff. Oh yeah, and that I think it's very like we said, it's like, all of a sudden, now you have to take your
shoes off at the airport. Now, some fucking schools, like your brother's talking bigger schools, they had metal detectors and shit installed. And I mean we had a kid bring a gun to school and had it in his locker and he was in deep fucking shit. And that probably eighty nine, just ten years before that probably would have been like dude, don't don't bring it in school. But there was a big showdown and the kid ended up getting expelled.
Holy shit. Well, actually, I think this would be a good time to take a quick break, and when we come back, we're going to touch on some really fucking interesting shit that both Colby and I have been looking into these last couple of weeks. So sit tight and we'll be back right after this.
Hey, what's up, guys. This is Janet from Deplorable Nation podcast. And the nineties were colorful to say the least. So word of the day was the emergence of themed restaurants like Planet Hollywood and Rainforest Cafes. You could get an immersive experience while you ate.
Food.
Trends of the day were things like pomp Tarts, Capri, sun Stuffed Crust, Pizza, fruit Loops, Captain Crunch, and Unchibles yum.
Right.
We had the dying off of my favorite hard rock or awesome rock and heavy metal, and in came the sad, dirty grunge sound of Nirvana, Pearl jam Alice in Chains. We had pop punk coming up like Green Day and Blink one eight two. We even had alternative rock like Red Hot, Chili Peppers, rim Nickelback and Creed. A lot of things going on worldwide, like the Human Genome Project started cloning of Dolly the Sheep. We had twenty five wars going on worldwide simultaneously, including ninety eleven and the
famous Gulf War. We had the Rwandan genocide, the death of Princess Diana. Of course, the HIV scare and everyone was freaked out. We had assassinations of Pablo Escobar and Gandhi. Hurricanes hitting all over the world, but the two worst were in the United States. We had Andrew hitting Florida and fran hitting North Carolina.
We had a massive.
String of devastating tornadoes that swept through Oklahoma. Fifteen airplane crashes worldwide, causing lots of death and destruction. Cern became the face of the World Wide Web Project again lucky for.
Us, right.
And then we had the Y two K panic at the end of the nineties where people were not sure if the world was going to end because they didn't know if the computers would roll over to mark the year two thousand. So yeah, a lot of colorful things going on. Popular shows that the day were Rosanne Tears, Seinfeld and Friends, and so that was just the tip of the iceberg. So yeah, the nineties were crazy times.
And we are back. So moving on. I actually I'll let Colby take this because it's something that I was unfamiliar with until recently. And we watched I know, I'm always talking shit, but we watched a show on HBO. Oh it was a showtime Okay, But you know how I'm always saying like, you can't get your information from Netflix and HBO, But you said this one was as accurate as it possibly could be for what it was.
And it was called Waco, right, Yeah, And what I first want you to talk about is Ruby Ridge.
Yeah, because if we talk about Waco, we have to start with Ruby Ridge. Because Ruby Ridge was a direct result of the United States government going after radicalized domestic type sovereign I don't yeah, And I mean this movement was all of that. It had the sovereign movement. Uh Randy Weaver himself, who was the prime target in the standoff. He married a woman when he was at Fort Bragg in the late seventies, I believe, and her name was Vicky.
I don't remember her maiden name off the top of my head.
But what year did Ruby Ridge go down? Two ninety two? So this was with the fucking riots and the fucking and the fucking Gulfer and all that.
I mean, this was its own thing, and it really was isolated to the point where the only reason I had exposure to it like I did is because because I was living in Idaho and this was, I mean
basically a different state. I lived in southern Idaho, like Mormon High Desertville, and Ruby Ridge was in northern Idaho where they had like the white separatist movement had a big stronghold up there, a lot of Christian survivalists, which is what I would if I had to like put a name on the movement that Weaver was really into, even though the mainstream would have you believe that he was this big white nationalist starting shit with the government, when you really look into it, I mean, it was
one of the worst things that ever happened in this country. And it predated Waco, which Waco was just a continuation of this type of policy. But do you want me to just give you like a quick rundown of Ruby.
Ridge, Yeah, and then I want to give you my fucking thoughts on it, because I'm impassioned.
Well, you don't know a lot about the Ruby Ry.
I know what I saw from the show, and it passed me the fuck off.
So what happened was I was starting to say that Vicky was the gal that he hooked up with. They get married and they're both into like pretty moderate level Christianity. But she reads this book that a dude wrote in the seventies. I don't remember the name of it doesn't really matter, but it was more of this like the apocalypses around the corner bridge of Christianity. I mean we
see it to this day. These people pop out of the woodworks all the time, make predictions, and this guy's book had her convinced that we were living in the end times and that they needed to like isolate and start homeschooling their kids. And at this time they had one daughter, and they in nineteen eighty three, they bought a piece of property in very secluded mountains of northern Ida, and Weaver starts affiliating with white nationalists and these really
far right leaning like Christian militia groups. And there was fucking undercover agents implanted in this scene already. So Weaver comes in there being this ex military, ex green Beret, Port Bragg trained, I mean, everything comes out of for a brag. But so he comes in to this place, gets noticed pretty quickly, and they entrap him. He befriends a guy who's an undercover ATF agent and they entrap him into selling the agent to sowd off shotguns. And so we were what.
Or did they say, can you saw it off? And he said no?
He said no. The guy was relentless. I mean I was gonna say that, like at first he I don't know if he smelled a rat and just was listening to his instincts or just thought it was a bad idea. But the funny thing about this is if you just look into it a little bit, the crime he committed, he could have actually had legal clearance if he bought a two hundred dollars permit. That's the only thing standing in between this being a crime and this not being
a crime. So it's a paperwork issue. And he was very much, you know, in the sovereign movement, so he didn't give a fuck about the paperwork. And he had told this guy who thought was his friend, this undercover agent, I really need some money right now, and the guy smelled blood and went in and got him to do it. So he sells these guys or this guy the guns at like a park or something. They meet and makes the hand off, and he tells the guy, I can get you one of these a week. That's according to
the agent. I don't believe this. So Weaver's story is that he was hard up for cash, he was desperate. He knew he shouldn't have done it, and he did it anyway. And this started the whole thing because this was the reason they approached him. We've got this dirt on you now. They told him they wanted him to be an informant, and he told him to go fuck themselves.
They we don't think he said I can get you one a week.
But this is the age ATF.
You might as well fucking asked Charles Manson about a sod Off shotgun. I mean, literally, babe, They fucking lie about everything, right, I'm not talking about the guy. I'm talking about fucking the ATF lies about everything.
Of course, and we're you know, this is just gonna spill over into the Waco thing. But so I'm gonna try to make this the shortest version possible, and if you have like any questions, I could maybe fill in some blanks, but because of this him telling them to get fucked, they came after him hard on the gun charge.
Uh.
They pretended to be broken down motorists on this background, and he stopped with his wife, I believe at the time, and they arrested him, took him in cuffs, took him in, and then they let him go. He had to like mortgage his house as bail just to get out. I think it was like fifteen thousand dollars ten to fifteen
thousand dollars somewhere in there. So they let him out and then they tell him in this paperwork they gave him that his court date was March twentieth, and so they actually set up the court date for February twentieth, gave him the wrong date, so he doesn't show up.
Oh, come on.
And this is all admitted. This isn't even conspiracy stuff. This is all documented through it.
You're being fucking you're are you mess with me?
This gets worse, so they issue a warrant failure to appear.
In court, and honey, I can't take it.
So for the next eighteen months, Weaver is in a limbo, knowing that they could just come arrest him anytime. They want. And what they do is they start heavy surveillance outside his house. They have people in camouflage clothes because he missed his court Nate, well, because they wanted this guy. But yes, that was.
The but that's the reason they Yes.
Yes, that's the reason for the warrant.
Unnecessary.
Now, I don't want to like be total on the side of Weaver in this, even though I am, But I gotta say anytime he could have turned himself in knowing that there was a warrant, but he didn't. I that I probably wouldn't have. But I'm just saying he does.
I mean, because he knows because they've done right by him so far, Why why not turn myself in because they're the good guy.
Yeah.
Right, if he turned himself in and that he knew, he was gonna get even fucked.
Harder, well it gets worse. So now, the the version of the story I'm going to give is coming from the Weavers, so I would prefer that A little backstory here. The Weavers had three kids, Sarah, she was sixteen when this went down, Sam who was fourteen, and then they had an infant who I believe was about ten months old, a girl I don't remember her name. But there was also this guy named Kevin Harris who was a family friend.
I think he was like older than Sam, who was fourteen, but he wasn't quite like an adult, but he was a troubled person that they took in and he was a family friend. So one morning they hear their dog freaking out, and this is a yellow lab who was
a goddamn good guard dog. The dog goes off in the woods just freaking out, and Kevin and Sam chase after the dog with guns, and Randy goes off another direction, and that's when the dog leads Kevin and Sam right to the fucking agents out there in their cameo gear. And the version of the story right here is where it diverges because the kid claim or the guy, Kevin claims that they shot the dog, and then Sam said,
why'd you shoot my dog? And he's pointing his gun around and they start firing, and so Kevin shoots one of the agents that opens fire, kills him, and then all hell breaks loose. Randy's yelling for them to get back to the house. Sam turns around to run and he's shot in the back. Fourteen year old kid shot retreating and he was shot once in the arm and once in the back.
So they killed the man's dog and his son in one fucking fail swoop.
Yeah, that's what starts the standoff.
Why did they kill the dog?
So that was if you actually look into it, it's come out since that the whole reason they went in close to the house that day was to lure the dog out.
Oh my god, they planned it.
They wanted to kill the dog so that when.
They couldn't, it wouldn't alert them to their presence.
Yeah, it was like getting rid of their oh my honey.
Please.
So anyway, now the story of the ATF has given sense is that they decided to pull out last minute, and they were leaving and then the dog came out and forced their hand.
But give me a break.
The real truth that consensus has kind of delivered us is that no, they did exactly what they came to do, but they didn't plan on the kid and the family friend being out there with guns and all hell brows.
Why did they have to shoot his kid in the back.
Well, so fire broke out after that. The ATF claims that he was waving his gun around frantically saying why'd shoot my dog and that they were under threat. Some say that uh, he shot first, but all accounts and even they even got caught line. One of the guys said he didn't fire any shots, and they looked later and he had fired seven bullets. Oh my god, they're blatantly covering up things.
And that's why I said. He probably didn't say he could get him one soot off shotgun a week. They've fucking lied this whole time.
And so then at some point, oh my god, Pavin, Vicky and Randy go out and grab the body of Sam and bring him back to his shed. And this is just a little side note on how like radically religious these people were. They had a I don't remember if they called it a bleeding shed or a blood said, but it's where Sarah, the daughter and the mom would have their periods. So like hippies do this, and apparently Native Americans sometimes did it.
Jewish people, I don't know, maybe, no, I know that for a fact.
Well, these guys were staunch Old Testament followers.
Yeah, you're supposed to bleed in a separate area.
So that that's another little like inconsistency is they tried to paint these people as anti Jewish, like anti Semites, but they considered themselves Israelites because they were followers of the old tim.
Well, they've tried to paint him as everything but a fucking.
The religious radical stuff is true and even this shit they're doing. So when he was arrested, Vicky sent a letter to the government and she signed it a servant of the Queen of Babylon and she said, basically I'm paraphrasing here, but one of her letters said, and she didn't cuss, but us the fuck alone, and if you
come in, we will be forced to defend ourselves. And this is a theory, or not a theory, but this is a theme that's going to carry over in to Waco because these people are isolated prophesizing that the fucking Babylon or whatever the government is going to come in, and they make the prophecy come true just by doing what they do. And so you think these people are going to be reasoned with after you actually showed them
that everything they believed about the government is true. And so anyway, they get the body, they take it back into the bleeding shed and Randy and Vicky clean it up and they just keep him out there. At one point they actually come in and take the body. Who takes it the government.
They take the little boy's body for what.
For?
Why?
So maybe evidence? Maybe to clean up the evidence.
Oh my god, babe, they fucking defiled it.
I don't know what they did. But anyway, the next major step is because of the body. So they were sitting outside, and so this family's just this whole time, they're like, if you look at Sarah's testimony, she was like, we were just hoping that somebody was gonna come save us, like this wasn't okay, and you know, somebody in charge was gonna be on our side. Little did they know this was all coming from up on high and there was no way they were ever going to get out
of there like peacefully. Because after this goes down, this was an eleven day siege in total, but like three days left. This is when all hell breaks loose. Randy goes out till he says, he always would word it like I'm gonna go check on Sam. So he goes out there, the daughter's with him, Kevin's outside also doing something else, and they kind of all are just standing in different places and gunfire starts and or Ucci is the name of this sniper, and he's an ATF sniper,
or he might know he may be FBI. I think he's FBI, So at this point the FBI kind of had taken over. He gets orders that if you see an adult outside armed, open fire, and Randy was not armed when this happened. He's going around the shed. He's opening the door and shots ring out, and Sarah runs to her dad and actually like shields him, and she's like, if they're going to shoot my dad, they're gonna have to shoot me first. And she's like helping him back
to the house. He got shot somewhere, I think, around the shoulder, and they bring him in and everybody kind of meets at the front door right all together. It's a big clusterfuck and Kevin dives in and right as they close the door, ry Ucci takes his second shot. It goes through the window, right through fucking Vicky's head and she's holding the ten month old baby and Sarah's standing right next to her. She said it was deafening, like the bullet went right by her ear and Vicky
hits the floor dead immediately. Kevin gets the bullet that passes through. Vicky hits Kevin and just obliterates like a chunk of his arm and then shrapnel fucking hits his chest. It's a miracle this guy survived. And so now you have the dead wife after the dead sun and one wounded guy. Baby's fine, but mom's dead.
Oh god, honey, they killed this man's entire family.
Well, the negotiations start now, and this.
Is negotiations after they've just family.
And if you remember the Waco show we watched, this is how the opening of the show is showing all this, like, I.
Know, but what is there left to negotiate when you've killed the man's entire family?
Get this? Okay? So the negotiations start and FBI's got their top guy on it, and he says at one point something like, we all had pancakes out here for breakfast. Hey, Vicky, I know your kids are hungry. Why don't you just come out with your kids? And they're in there going you just fucking shot her mom and Sarah in her testimony, and she's written a book on this sense and she's gone on like a few podcasts and talked to a few interviewers, but she was thinking like they're just rubbing
it in our faces. She thought they knew that she was dead, and so gosh, I forget this guy's name.
So hold up real quick, hey, dead person, come get some pancakes. What the fuck is wrong with these people? We also made sausage out of your dead fucking dog. We got out here. Oh just kidding, it's fucking we to fucking leg meat from your dead son and made some fucking sausage patties. Come get them, like they're literally rubbing it in their face. They just killed this guy's whole family.
So the negotiator for the FBI at some point realizes, like, you know, he looks at all of us as the same. Obviously, the negotiator had nothing to do with the you know, the shootoff and all that. So he realizes, I need to bring in some familiarity. So he brings in this Colonel bo Gritz, who was a Green Beret anti government kind of you know, walked along in the same circles as Weaver. They didn't know each other personally, but Weaver kind of idolized this guy. I think he's the guy
that inspired some of the later Rambo movies. This was a dude who like tried to really, yeah, he tried to rescue POW's and Vietnam and shit. I mean, he was just like an icon for these people. So the FBI negotiator calls Bo Gritz to come in. He walks up to the house, unarmed, no kevlar, and he's like, Randy, why don't you just come out and talk with us, I think we need to end this. Randy just kind of cracks open the door and says, hey, Bo, they shot Vicky. And he just goes fuck and walks back
down and tells everybody you killed his wife. And so these guys kind of just talk back and forth a little bit. Randy gets comfortable and decides, you know, we should let Kevin out. So on August thirtieth, Kevin, like day ten of this thing. Kevin goes out, gets medical attention. And then the next day Bo and his daughter they go out, you know, the daughter and the infant girl, and it just in.
Randy goes out.
Yeah, he surrenders.
Randy the baby and the daughter goes out.
Yeah. So it's over. And this pretty successful attorney named Jerry Spence, he just made a spectacle out of the incompetency and all the fuck ups of the FBI agents. He basically puts them on trial, shows all their inconsistencies, shows that they were at fault basically, and Weaver ends up.
What about the ATF.
Well, a lot didn't happen with that legally, but I'll just wrap this up and then we'll get right into that. Because of that, we'll directly link us to Waco. So at trial, Weaver does not guilty or he excuse me, he pleads not guilty. And the entire thing was just like cut and dry. This Jerry Spence guy's kicking the shit out of the ATF. And Randy Weavers found guilty on failure to peer in court eighteen months months to spend in prison, and they get gave him time served.
So after the trial he has three months in prison, he's out, and he just became a radical speaker like gun shows, and he'd go on like you know, people's podcasts and stuff. I heard him talking throughout the years. He died in twenty twenty two, but I remember when this all went down. It's just to show you kind
of the mainstream narrative of it. I was in probably like later elementary school when this went down, Like the trial and all that, and he ended up going to prison to serve out his three months in Ada County, which is where I was probably living, because when I moved to southern Idaho, we lived in Ada County, in Twin Falls County, and I remember people at school explaining to us, like, this guy was a bad guy. He
was a racist, he was a white supremacist. He picked a fight with the government and they had to go in and shoot him, and you know the where the casualties wore, the wife, and it just they painted him as a bad guy. It wasn't until I got a little bit older and I started like rubbing shoulders with some conspiracy theorists who like some of them, actually knew the people that were involved in all this, and they just look at this guy as like a freedom fighter and a hero. So it's kind of funny.
He is a hero.
I mean, he'll never forgive himself. He's mentioned that he wishes he would have done things a little differently. Of course he does. His fucking son and his wife.
Got killed, and his dog and his dog.
So this will now spill over into Waco if you're ready to go into that, because the events of Ruby Ridge caused the Clinton administration to really take a hard look at the ATF, and rumors are they were going to cut the funding for it. And at that point, some guy got the synth on this compound Mount Carmel in Waco, Texas, where they were reportedly stockpiling weapons and marrying underage girls.
But don't you feel like that's just a little too convenient.
You've looked to me to be your leader to God you on this journey, But I'm no a leader. I'm a follower just like you. God has instructed me to stay here and wait for his son. This is our time to prove through suffering that we are worthy of the miracle.
That's the code.
The Kingdom of Heaven.
Is coming, I'd promis you.
Well, then this will just go right into the Okay, see bombed.
Well, no, I'm just saying. I'm just saying it's a little too convenient. They were about to cut the funding for this fucking, fucking natyf shit, and then all of a sudden there's a compound that pops up and they just gotta go and guns the blazing and fucking shoot everybody.
Well, and the thing that was going on in the early nineties. That kind of led to the whole Ruby Ridge incident is that the FBI turned their resources inward to look for radicalized Americans, anti government, hardcore religious survivalists. They were really infiltrating these groups, and so Waco was probably already on their radar, but they were just looking for an easy bust, and they ended up fucking recreating Ruby Ridge on a more massive scale. They killed many
kids and they and it's very similar. The incident started with them shooting a dog. Because they shot the dog and then fire gunfire breaks out, and at that point, you know, the FBI and the ATF swear that the ATF agents fired back, but everybody inside swears that they fired first, that the government fired first.
Well guess who the fuck I believe? Well, yeah, And just to get something clear, because before I watched the show, I myself had only heard of the Branch Davidians, this Waco compound. These people as like all but psychopaths who believed David Koresh was Jesus and that they were stockpiling guns. And they went to go serve a search warrant and they just fucking got machine guns and started shooting the
agents and shit. That's how they always that's how they always make it sound that David Koresh was saying that he was Jesus and that these Branch Davidians were fucking kids, and it sounded like something out of a horror movie when they described these guys. And then you watched this show and you really get to start looking into the Branch Davidians were and what David Koresh was really saying, and it's like, who the fuck cares what they believed in?
They weren't hurting anybody, and they were keeping to themselves out there, and it was like, yeah, they had some guns, but they weren't preparing for battle.
No, And a lot of the stuff was just away to generate revenue. They were buying and selling legal guns for gun shows and there they had a lot of little side of operations on how they were making money and how they were maintaining out there. They didn't have fucking electricity. They had electricity. They didn't have running water.
They didn't have running water, but they did have electric.
They had electricity.
But honey, you know what I'm saying is like, who the fuck cares what they believed in? They weren't they were literally not hurting kids, and they were literally not hurting anyone. Well yeah, and I mean they make it sound like he was raping kids.
Well a lot of this they shift the focus onto David Koresh and if you want to get into some of the finer points on him, whether he said he was Jesus or not. I mean, they flat out gave this guy the chance to like explain what was going on in there during this what was it fifty.
Fifty one, day fifty one I believe.
Yeah, so have a standoff that's very reminiscent of Ruby Ridge, but this time there's so much more at stake, and this entire thing is out in the middle of a goddamn open desert and it's surrounded by media. From day one,
there's very little footage of the Ruby Ridge standoff. I mean the aftermath the reporters had kind of gotten there, but I mean they show you, like the white supremacists that are protesting at the bottom of the property, but they don't show you like constant news covers that Waco was getting. And at one point they were even like communicating with a live radio show by turning their satellite dish.
There was something that I didn't talk about in the Ruby Ridge standoff, Like remember Paul Harvey the rest of
the story. Guy, he's an AM radio guy. Anyway, he was like telling Randy Weaver to surrender, and then they brought a little robot with a phone on it because they were having a hard time hearing him and they were trying to negotiate, and they look out the window and there's a little robot on wheels, probably like from the moon landing, and it's got a phone on it, but it's got a fucking shotgun pointed it, like where you'd have to be to grab the phone.
Oh, so come and get his phone and we'll blow your fucking hand off.
Yeah. So anyway, I mean that was a little just a little circle back, but yeah, Waco was equally horrible, but I would I would argue that Ruby Ridge was the one that really showed me like you can be doing nothing to hurt somebody and just have the fucking governments surround you and kill your family and then they'll get away with it.
Dude, Mormons get away with more. Like David Koresh. They were like, well, he's got a bunch of wives and he's getting them all pregnant out there? Hello, has anybody watched Sister Wives? Like, fucking this is not a new
fucking phenomenon. A guy who's fucking a bunch of chicks and getting them pregnant, Like they were literally living peacefully on a fucking compound, fucking eating baloney sandwiches and reading the Bible and I get it, Like I don't like religious cults either, but no one was actually in danger at all.
Well, a cult are not a cult? Not a cult, but the word cult has a connotation to it where, oh, it's the ones that we don't like and they're doing things that are weird, and we paint them in this light, and then they're a cult. When we all fucking do cult shit all day, every day of our lives, we're
all involved in that kind of stuff. But when it's this one thing where you get like this anti government sentiment and like really right leaning ideologies and Christian based ideologies, that combination freaks them the fuck out for some reason.
Let me tell, let me ask you something. Did you ever watch any of the series on like Warren Jeffs and what he was doing on the More and Compounds?
I mean, I know about it. I never like dove into it.
Where is the fucking siege on Zion. He's a religious cult leader that was literally raping twelve and thirteen year olds, had like forty wives. He was also doing weird stuff with guns and like just totally illegal shit. But there was no fucking siege on fucking Zion.
Well, if you look at it from that perspective, then I would say that there's probably a lot of fucking ATF agents out there using what you just said, saying we need a bigger budget. Look at this one got under our radar.
No, but I'm sorry they wait, Like why did? I'm trying to give people perspective as to Yeah, you might have not agreed with what David Koresh and what the branch Davidians were all about, but they weren't. The people who were there were not in danger. They were there
of their own free will. He was practicing similar religious beliefs as some Mormons that have their own TV show that nobody's fucking sieging on their asses, and like they literally just showed up and started killing women and children because they needed to fucking prove that the ATF could be valuable in some capacity.
Well, yeah, and it's almost like they didn't expect it. I mean, I'm not saying it's almost like I believe they did not expect this to just be Ruby Ridge two point zero. In fact, they were using it to say, see, Ruby Ridge was just a one off fuck up, but if it wasn't for us, this kind of stuff would go undetected all the time. Instead, they get the same goddamn thing. And the negotiator, who was both on Ruby Ridge and Waco, he even told those guys like you
fucking can't do it like this again. It's just gonna be worse. It's gonna be another Ruby Ridge. And I mean in the show, I don't think I told you this. They make it look like that guy sticks around till right before they go in. He fucking THEYDN got him out of there like twenty something days into it.
Are you serious?
Yeah?
I think for like dramatic effect in the show, his big outbursts was like right before they go in with the tanks. But but it's.
Like you said, with Ruby Ridge, the ATF made the Branch Davidian's prophecy come true. Yeah, they said the government's gonna show up here with tanks and they're gonna kill us all.
I mean, they didn't say it with tanks, but they did say, like, we're gonna be surrounded, and this is the fifth Seal because Koresh the reason he got all this attention is because he memorized the entire Bible, and he deciphered the Seventh Seals or the Seventh Seals in ways that biblical scholars wanted to prove him wrong. And then they fucking end up like uprooting their lives and moving on to the compound because they were so enamored by his ability to decipher the Bible.
So do you like, going back to what I said at the beginning of this episode, I find a weird spirituality thing with both of these cases, both with Weaver and with Waco, Like their prophecies actually fucking came true. Well, you think it's self fulfilling prophecy or do you think there's something else going on?
I mean, like I said, it's a spiritual dance. And I think that when you have two opposing forces just kind of like floating around each other, they're gonna bump into each other every once in a while. And for whatever reason, the United States government has proven time and time again, that they will be the one to fucking initiate it, like they know you're out there and they're gonna fucking challenge you.
But so it's like David wasn't wrong.
No.
I even said on an episode of Disinformation, like what if Koresh was Jesus?
Like I know he never said mistake, Like.
I'm not saying I think Koresh was Jesus, But imagine Jesus comes back. You think we're not just gonna kill him again. I think we would. And I don't mean we, I mean the powers that be would.
The Powers that be definitely would.
So I mean they did say that, you know I'm paraphrasing them.
He said it was a Messiah. He didn't say it was Jesus.
Yeah, And he even explained the difference. He tried to like downplay like I'm the second Coming. He called himself the Lamb of God. He called himself a Messiah. But the translation apparently of Messiah isn't like Jesus. There's messiahs. It's not all the Christ. But anyway, uh, I agree
with you entirely. Like these guys have it in their heads that they're going to be surrounded by Babylon and going to be fired upon, And then that just comes true because on both fucking issues, if you'll look, the similarities are just crazy. They're both fucking permitting errors for gun things. And it wasn't a permitting error with Ruby Ridge. It was a goddamn one oh one case of entrapment.
Like they couldn't have tried any harder to make this guy break the fucking law, and they all but forced it. I mean, they knew he was vulnerable, they knew he needed cash, he knew it was stupid.
But didn't they send even an undercover agent into Waco to try to get David on some shit and they couldn't even get him on that.
They sent an ATF agent undercover inside and like the second or third time he was there, he showed them a gun with a modified trigger, and Koresh handed it back to him and said that's illegal. Don't ever bring something like that in here again. And they were thinking Koresh would be like, oh cool, let me show you all my illegal guns, and that.
Just goes to show you how fuckingum they.
And Koresh, you know, wasn't in a vulnerable state where he slid into the trap. But that same agent even told the ATF that they had been tipped off by this guy that was on a mail route. He was a mailman and he had a fucking dad or a son or somebody in the compound, and he went and tipped him off. That undercover agent told the FBI and the ATF don't fucking go in there. They know you're coming. He met him in the driveway in the show. I don't know if that was you know historically.
Actually there was a there was a video where David poked his head out and was like, don't shoot, don't shoot, let's talk about this, and they fucking open fired on him.
He said there's women and children in here, don't fire.
And they were like, oh, what'd you say, literally shot him.
They shot the dog, and then somebody from one of the windows. Here's gunshots coming from the ATF, and they shoot back and then they fire a shot. It's kind of weird too, how Randy gets clipped in the shoulder and it was his daughter was treating his gun wound, and you know, her mom's face was obliterated. But the Kevin Harris guy, he had a fucking massive like just the it wasn't. It didn't go clean through and he had the shrapnel. But both Koresh and Weaver were shot
and survived. And I mean it's weird because Koresh was in pretty bad shape for a while.
He got shot in the stomach.
He was convinced he was dying, and he got like a voice message out to his mom at one point saying he thought he was dying, but he miraculously rose. And you think the fucker's in there, aren't, Like, maybe he's Jesus.
That's I mean, theyde literally.
Even though he likes fucking my wife and rub it into my face, he just might be the second Coming.
It's like I said before, am I gonna go join the branch Davidians now? But they weren't really doing anything that was absurdly outside of like Mormonism that everyone seems to be fucking okay with. And they were like, didn't he have like a band too?
Yeah, that was one of his other ways.
Of like generating revenue.
I mean, I don't know if they got paid, but he had a band and they would go play shows. That's how he met David Thibodeau, one of the survivors of the siege, who actually, like is a really good source if you want to hear the other side of the story. I think he was supposed to go on the White Rabbit podcast. I hope that still happens, because.
That is well, can I just they end up killing all they end up at the end of this siege, they end up pretty much catching the whole bitch on fire, and they kill all the women and children, and David kills himself, right.
You know that part of the show. I don't know if the if they if they really did that, but I guess they probably wouldn't have just put that in there. See to me, I all my really deep dives went into Ruby Ridge, the Waco stuff. I'm a little blurry on whether that part was true or not, but yeah, they'd make it look like.
They just didn't want to burn up so they just killed themselves.
And maybe they did.
But okay, let's just both agree and say this. Do not watch the documentary on Netflix if you want accurate information about Wago, because I watched half an episode of the mini series on Netflix about Wago and I about came up out of my skin. It glorifies the ATF agents. They're all sitting around fucking crying and shit. And what did I tell you? I said, the only thing you need to do in an HBO or Netflix documentary to sell it to people is have some good background music
and some good video footage. And that's exactly the fuck what they did. They played all these fucking sob stories from the ATF agents. They played a fucking sad song in the background. What does it say? Look, he died at thirty three? Oh my god, did it say he killed himself?
No, if you just go to the Wikipedia, it says he died of a gunshot wound in unclear circumstances. The compound was a siege.
He said, they'd know ever killed themselves.
I know.
Do you think they did that just to like to sketch their names?
Because, like I said, my brief that rabbit hole dive into Waco was years ago. And in that show when they he gets one of his followers to shoot him in the head and then the guy shoots himself. I always thought that I would have remembered that, So I don't think.
So that was a fucking artistic liberty they took in the show. He said, we'll never kill ourselves.
Well, you know, if your ass is on fire, you might change your mind if you got a gun.
Yeah, I know, But they lied about everything else. Why not lie about that? What if he went down heroically in a blaze just to prove a point and they fucking shamed him, like fucking how they did Marilyn Monroe and said she killed herself and she was fucking on pills and shit, and they took all of her clothes off. Well, and let's it's a humiliation.
Rich. Take an opportunity here to just talk about what kind of guy David Koresh was, because I don't want to glorify him as much as I'm telling you that he didn't deserve to fucking get swarmed by the United States government and fired upon. I will also say he was doing some shady shit, in my opinion, nothing that warranted this. But the guy was kind of a creep.
What was he doing?
I mean, he was marrying underage girls, like how underage, but underage to the point where if in Texas, by Texas law, the parents were all in there and did give their consent and that was enough for legal standing.
So you think he was a creep?
I do think he was a creep. I don't think that you can sit there and tell all your buddies that I just got a message from God and he wants me to bear the burden of intercourse. You guys don't have to do it anymore, but I get to fuck all your wives. All the kids in there were his.
Kids said, I don't think it was at all normal what they were doing, like I would just go sign up for I'm just saying that he wasn't doing anything outside of what fucking Mormons do and get away with it.
I don't they all.
Marry thirteen year olds too, and fucking nobody's sieging on them.
No, I'm not saying that. I don't think that. You know, it's a little weird what I'm saying to you.
He was probably a heat, but I'm just saying, if you're gonna see John Waco, you need a seege on every Mormon household.
Well, he also had an I'm not you know, the whole underage girl things one thing, But he also had an opportunity to end this, and his ego got the better of him and he wanted to get the message on tape. The FBI ended up just losing patience with him, but they had negotiated a surrender, and rather than just come out at that minute like everybody wanted, he said he had to get his sermon fucking recorded and typed out or whatever it was.
That I will say, is just your typical ego to say it is Once again, I can say all that.
At the same time, it does not fucking mean that you get to go in there and kill him because he's not doing what you tell him to do. But if he really cared about his kids and maybe his religious beliefs were like, fuck, we're better off, you know, if they do just fucking kill us, who knows what was going through this guy's head.
You also have to think about fifty one days into this, he's nobody in there's thinking clearly.
They're all dehydrated, delirias, all delirious, fucking bleeding from a gunshot wound. Yeah, and he keeps saying, like, you guys keep lying, Why do I believe that we're gonna come out? I mean, the first thing they did was start arresting everybody and separating them from their kids. When they were
letting like a trickle of them out. So I you know, who's to say I wouldn't have done exactly what he did in that situation, but had he been selfless and put everybody in there above himself, especially those kids, they would be alive today.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why you do not join cults. How does this lead into the Okac bombing though.
Because after this, the FBI and the ATF like, look, they made themselves look really good in the eyes of this fucking public trial they had, they fucking prosecute the surviving adults of Waco, and they end up successfully prosecuting them. And then you get to they go to jail.
Yeah, Thibodeau goes to jail.
No Thibodeau, So maybe he was I don't think so.
Why does Thibodeau get off? You know, I saw pictures of the real Thibodeaux, and he was a good looking guy when he was in the cult. Here's a list of the ones that were prosecuted.
Yeah, they're convicted of firearms charges and murder.
So they serve time. Yeah, eight cult members serve time. Oh my god, it's this. They were prosecuted for various crimes, including murder and conspiracy.
No, I mean, the story just gets more bleak the more it goes. But so you asked how this ties into the OKC bombing, Well, the fall guy McVeigh. The official narrative is that he did this in memory of Ruby Ridge and Waco, and in fact, he did it on the two year anniversary of the siege at Waco ending.
He did it on the two year anniversary of the siege of Waco.
Ending the day that they went in and killed everybody, and that was April nineteenth of ninety three.
But that's like the mainstream, yeah, But also so under the like on the other side of the curtain, you have the FBI really fucking arming up harder than ever on militia groups after Waco because they drug this thing through the courts.
They made these survivors look like they were guilty of murder and stockpiling weapons. And there was all of this fucking white militia activity going on, like like white nationalist stuff, And there was this place called Eloheim City and it was infiltrated heavily by the FBI. Now this is where McVeigh comes into it. So the mainstream story is is this guy is this he's just like this kind of one of big army grunt guy his whole life, and then he yeah, and then he has these high aspirations
of becoming a Green Beret. You know, he wanted to be in their army since he was a little kid. As he gets older, he's like, God, I could be like Roundbo. So he enters the program, and the official narrative is that he fucking you know, passed the first test. And then he goes in there and he hikes and gets all these blisters on his feet and gives up and he fucking drops out and says it, says it's the biggest shame of his life. He can't cut it.
And then he leaves that and you know, leaves the military and becomes this disgruntled, fucking guy who wants to bring it all down, and he gets radicalized and he falls into this white national shit a while, like the ruby rich shit that they're trying to spend. And so he ends up at this place that I mentioned, Eloheim City, and he meets this other guy, Terry Nichols. Fuck is that his name sounds right? And they planned this thing and it's just all set up to look like McVeigh
acted alone but had a sidekick. That kind of I think he ended up getting multiple life sentences. Of course, McVeigh was executed, but when you start looking at this from a conspiratorial angle, it gets way more fucking interesting because apparently mcveigh's story is that he fucking excelled so much at the Green Beret program that they pulled him and like four or five other guys might have been as many as ten. They excelled to the point where they were like, you guys are going to be a
special unit. You were going to fake a discharge from the army and you will be used for assassinations, covert ops and all this shit. Now he's been up until the day is well.
That makes way fucking more since.
Well, so if you want to really get into this, I recommend what's his name, James Corbett. You guys, you know James Corbett is. He's this Canadian guy who moved over to Japan to teach English and now he's like this fucking huge conspiracy guy. He has a YouTube channel that's like fifteen years old, but he makes great documentaries.
He does weekly podcasts, and he did a fifty seven minute you know, it's under an hour, and it's all about this other narrative of Timothy McVay, And there is physical fucking documentation that like really heavily suggests that McVeigh was telling the truth.
Of course he was.
And there's this John Doe two that kept popping up in the news right after the rider truck exploded. And then security footage shows this guy that wasn't Terry Nichols. Fuck McVeigh parks the rider truck in front of the building, gets out, walks away, This guy in the passenger who isn't Terry Nichols passenger side, he gets out, goes out, gets in the back with the bomb, gets out, walks away, comes back again, and then leaves and as soon as he does, it blows up.
Oh for fox sake.
Now, in the meantime, Timmy the McVeigh, his getaway car doesn't have fucking license plates. He gets maybe two miles away from it from the incident and gets pulled over right away. And at this point we have like a basic Lee Hervey Oswald thing.
So he's a patsy.
Yeah, he was a patsy. He was on a mission and probably didn't know the extent of his like final destination.
Oh my god.
So I mean there's a lot of details in that are missing, but that's basically like and you.
Know, I've went and I've walked the Oklahoma City bombing memorial, and just like with nine to eleven and a lot of these memorial sites, there's a reflection pool and there is the exact time when the bomb went off, and it's all lit up in white marble, and it's just really ritualistic looking. They have a chair to represent every like a big chair to represent every dead adult, and then they have these little tiny chairs to represent every dead child, and it's just I don't know.
Well and think about it like this.
Oh, and they have a marble statue of Jesus turning his back away from the bombing site in like crying in shape.
David Koresh, I guess. So. One thing I always kind of wonder is if McVeigh was inspired by the Ruby Rich standoff and Waco where he's disgusted the innocent kids were killed. Why the fuck would he go blow up something right next to a daycare? Daycare?
So the daycare was inside the building. Yeah, that makes a ton of sense, Right, I'm so sad about these kids dying that I'm gonna go blow some.
Up and if you start looking into like the real weeds on this, you get into all sorts of nine to eleven type shit, like people claiming they saw undercover and military like marit militarily. Is that even an adjective? Dressed men putting shit like fucking Sea four stuff up under the pillars and shit like that. Yeah, witness testimony.
Building seven shit.
I mean, it's just it just reeks of the same playbook over and over. Luckily we didn't find any you know, passports that survived oh boy fires, but uh, you get everything else pretty much.
I will say, go in and visiting the memorial and seeing that statue of Jesus with his back turn to it, is like, why would you even do that? Why would you even build a statue of Jesus with his back turned like he can't even look at it because it's so awful, Like, Okay, that's who fucking who fucking decided to create that shit?
Probably Tony Podesta, you know what I mean.
It's like Jesus turned his back on it.
That's a verse of the Bible that I did not read, And Jesus gave the cold shoulder.
To the bombing victims.
Jesus turned his childer it.
But I guess is there anything else you wanted to add before we take a short break?
I don't think so. I mean go government, Yeah, Usa, Usa, You guys, you're so fucking badass. I can't even handle it. Keep doing what you do, boo.
All right, with that being said, let's take a quick break and we will be back right after this.
Hey everyone, it's Haila from the Unfiltered Rice podcast and I'm here to tell y'all a little about the nineties. Julia is doing a new series on this and she asked me to drop a couple things about growing up at that time. Friends, since I am old, but it was it was a cool time to be around.
You know.
We had the meshing of the music world. The hairbands were going out, Nirvana.
Was going in.
We had awesome rap songs. We also had some.
Weird songs like you could not go anywhere without the damn Bodyguard song I Will Always Love You, And every time it came on it was just so cringey.
And I know it's a pretty song, but I just.
Don't do slow songs and it was really sappy.
So that was not fun. But hey, we got things like the Offspring. We got things like Nirvana. We got Insane in the membrane and regulate us, so you know, we can't really complain there. We also had some awesome movies, you know, like a few good Men, the Matrix, like Complete Iconic and little did I know how much that would play into my future Dracula and I really liked the show called American Me. And probably a lot of people think that's weird because it doesn't really fit me,
but hey, I could relate. Also, there was big, big things on TV.
Right.
We had the La Riots, we had Rodney King, we had OJ. Everywhere you went, like every single TV, in every restaurant, in every I don't know, everywhere you went, it was OJ was on TV. So I was super glad when that one was over. To be honest, I find it fascinating now, but then I just wasn't about it. When you're trying to eat, you're going out to the training table, you know, it was awesome place to go.
They need to bring you your fry sauce.
If you're from Utah like I am, and if you guys are from Utah, you just laughed a little bit. I also loved Big Boys, JB's and that went out of business too, I means some of the old iconic things and Utah Noodle Company in Ogden. If you guys are from Utah, you probably know that place, and I had a lot of good memories there, so you know, these are just a few things that I thought were awesome. I also was really into country line dancing.
For all of you that may not know.
Even though I low key listened to rap on this side and kept out a secret, I was a huge cowgirl, like.
Wore brush coppers every day to school.
So yeah, that's yeah.
I had ropers in every color.
It was all ridiculous.
But glad that phase is over.
But there's always going to be a little cowgirl in me. So anyways, that's a little about my nineties experience, and I hope this is a fun and awesome little blip about my life and grown up in the nineties. So catch me on the next one and see me at the Unfiltered Griys podcast all about more months, murder and Mayhem. You don't want to miss it?
Are you having a rectile? This Moncton. Everybody who listens to conspiracy podcast needs Bonder pills.
Red and we are back, and during the quick break, Colby and I decided that I've tried to jam so much information into this Part three that we're probably gonna have to go ahead and do a part four. But before we wrap things up, I do want Kolby to talk about something that is actually integral to our love story.
We're gonna go out with a bang, a shotgun bang to be specific. Don't laugh it is. That's the death of a generation.
One of your heroes, right Kurt Cobain.
Okay, Kurt Cobain was a great musician and probably an asshole, but he didn't deserve what he got well.
And the reason I say it's integral to our love story is because it was one. It was the first episode that we did together apart from being in like a group or like a swapcast, and we did an episode on Kurt and Courtney, and I was really not very familiar with all the conspiracy surrounding Kurt. I knew that it probably wasn't as the mainstream narrative would love us to believe that he had shot himself in the head with shotgun. But Colby does a great job of
making it make more sense. So I'll let you take the reins, give us the cliffs notes on Kurt and Courtney.
Maybe, I mean, I could give a very condensed version without all the details, because I did freshen up on Ruby Ridge, and we've been kind of in the Waco thing for a while. I don't know that I've looked into Kobaan for a couple of years since we recorded it. But I mean the reason you and I wanted to cover is because it was trying to be demonstrable on Courtney loved being a baitas sex kitten and kind of like holding the reins of Laurel Canyon too. Point zero.
Going over, we go first with the post punk movement in Europe, where she spent some time handing out LSD with CIA handlers and fucking members of Echo and the Bunnyman and the Pogues and probably leaving some people out. And then she comes.
Back to.
The States, you know, and her like even a little more backstory. Her dad was the manager of the Warlocks who later became the Grateful Dead, likely a handler of sorts himself, and he is the daughter or the father of probably one of the most I don't know. You talk about Marylyn a lot and I think my Marilynd has to be Courtney and her story is not even over. But you just look at this woman in the nineties, and she was everywhere, and she wreaked havoc wherever she went.
And you know, whether it was part of the plan in her mission to infiltrate the grunge scene like she did, I mean, I got to think at least some of it was. But Nirvana was the vehicle that you know, the Laurel Canyon esque puppeteers picked to kind of just take a broom and get rid of all the fucking
gay ass hair metal that was dominating the scene. And you know, they were an underground band for a significant amount of time, and you can't take that from Nirvana, but they definitely were used to usher in the version of grunge that mainstream likes to talk about, because you can go back to the eighties in Seattle and there was a real big underground movement going on to the point where it did get the attention of you know whoever is at the helm of all of this, to
the point where Nirvana became this overnight sensation with their second album and Anybody Alive in the nineties remembers that because when you hear a Nirvana song, it just speaks to everything that was going on in mainstream society. You had all this like self loathing, confusion, and it was going from goth into this newer thing. Emo quite wasn't a thing yet, but everybody started fucking dressing like they lived in the Pacific Northwest and flannel, you know, denim
work bootsies. Yeah, like all of a sudden, all these industrial workers, they were in style. They've been dressing like that their entire lives. And then they turn on MTV and they see these fucking guys with the guitars, dressed like they're getting ready to hop in a logging truck, right, And it really did usher in like the I'm so depressed, I just want to do heroin and kill myself and I mean, fuck Nirvana. It just sucks that that's kind
of like the epitome of what they brought. But the music speaks for itself, and we always talk about separate in the art from the artist. Yes, now, I don't know exactly what you want to get into with like his death.
But well it wasn't the first time she tried to kill him, because he went somewhere on a trip, right, and he was roofied. They said he was going to roofie himself to death.
Yeah, he was in Rome. And this was very likely the first attempt at taking Kurt's life, and he survived by all accounts.
Did you want to die like that? Yeah, I mean, like, who's roofying themselves to death?
Well, And that's the other thing is, if you want to just backtrack a little bit, Kurt had like really bad stomach problems and he ended up getting addicted to Heroin after he met Courtney, and he ended up quitting Heroin before they were, you know, going through their big thing where he was trying to divorce her before the
second attempt was successful. But in this first one, she was there the whole time, and she ended up like kind of staging this thing where she expected him to die and she was going to be by his side. But he pulled through, and by many accounts, he was never the same after that. He had some kind of oxygen deprivation side effects, and he also entered like the most peaceful and happy stage of his life after that,
and he was trying to get away from her. And if you guys want like a big detailed presentation of this. The episode that I was on with Cosmic Patch here was what how many years ago, like a year and a half ago.
Yeah, I don't know, I don't remember, maybe two years ago.
Yeah, it was kind of a swapcast. It was called I mean, we lay out all of the details on all of this and how it led to his death, and that.
I think I called it Kurt and Courtney smells like homicide.
I called mine loves the four letter, And it's just I don't know, I think many people out there who lived through the nineties can't think of the nineties without Nirvana being there.
Well, And so the suicide note we talk about in that show because it sounded more like, uh, I'm breaking up with Nirvana better than a suicide letter. And it seemed to us by reading it that fucking Courtney either wrote the end half of it, or she wrote like she wrote some of it.
She wrote probably the beginning of it and the very end of it.
Like she found something in his notebook where he was talking about breaking up with Nirvana, and she kind of like added a top in a bottom and made it a suicide note.
And she had the big spectacle of reading it on TV and crying. It's kind of like those fucking atf agents and the Waco Netflix documentary.
If you if you look at the at the crime scene itself, he had shoes on, right, but in order to do what he did, he would have had to pull the trigger with his toe.
Yeah, and he had so much Heroin in his system.
That nobody's thinking that shit through.
Well, you're shitting there, od and to death and you're like, I should probably just finish the job with.
The shotgun, but then and then also put my.
Shoe back on, right.
I mean, there's like I said that all the tires were slashed on his car.
Well, there was so much. I mean, like I said in your an episode.
Splash my own tires, take my shoe off, od on heroin, shoot myself in the face with the shotgun, then put my shoe back on before I succumb to the big bullet wound in my head.
And there's all these people that were kind of you know in the orbit of Curtain Courtney at the end, that were very unsavory people, many of them there when it happened. The guy that did it that I think did it. Fuck, I don't even remember his name now, but he was kind of always a presence with Courtney and Kurt, and she had a lot of people that
she kind of controlled. And you know, you can go down rabbit holes on Kristin Path, the bass player of her band hole who pretty much it's evident at this point that Curtin Kristen had a plan to like work musically together. But if you look a little deeper, it looks like they may have had a little romance and she was taking out what less than Tuma or fuck, I don't remember.
It might have been well she fucking turned up dead too.
Yeah, what she was getting ready to move out of La. Well.
The thing is, Babe, is like anyone around Courtney seems to fucking have all these tragedies if they get in her way.
Yeah.
I mean she had goons that were like current and ex police officers that she would pay to kick the shit out of people that pissed her off.
I mean, I mean she's like literally the Scarlet Horre.
Yeah.
But I do want to in our next episode together, I want to touch on like maybe some John Benet stuff. I want to touch on some more Franklin scandal and McMartin stuff, because those were both big nineties things that I don't feel like get enough attention as being nineties things.
Well, I think that because mainly the Franklin stuff was eighties.
Well, it trickled over in Ada.
I mean, it's definitely worth touching on, and we could even like give a little teaser about stuff we're going to do together. Regarding Hunter s Thompson, Oh, Hunter s Thompson, Yeah, well you get into the Franklin scandal, it's just yeah, it does spill over into the nineties even though it was an eighties thing.
I also want to kind of get into Princess Die and Heaven's Gate Cult, which I have a lot of information I want to talk to you about with Heaven's eight But it's like you said when we were on the break, all of these topics are deserving of a certain amount of time, and I don't want to try to cram too much stuff into this episode. But I know you loved Nirvana. I was kind of a fan. I was not as much as Colby.
Oh I still. I mean, they're just any album you throw on. There's not a bad song, and it does suck that Cobaine seemed to be somebody who would have just remained relevant no matter what he did. And he just had a passion, and it's why he was used as, you know, the spearhead of the grunge movement and the tragedy that they chose to write, you know, he was a main character in it. I do think a lot
of these people in Laurel Canyon were spared. I think Kerr Goobain definitely did die, you know, it's those things that I think was staged.
I think he definitely did die too. And he's also mentioned in season one of American Horror Story with the Kid that it's like a call him Bye esque and he also mentions that his idol is Kurt Cobain and I don't know that season. It's like I always fucking say, I think we're living in a season of American Horror Story, probably the most interesting one because we're living like a combination of all the seasons put together.
It's a big American Horror Story. Snowball just keeps rolling down the hill and getting bigger.
Yeah. But so with that being said, we're gonna take the last break and we will be back next week with part four of the nineties Night. I hope to see you there. Thanks everyone for listening, and I'll catch you on the.
Next one, Tata.
So, since the audio recording just won't work for me this morning, I've decided to send a video, so let's go all right. So, as far as what I can remember, as far as in the nineties is concerned, the quintessidential soundtrack of the nineties was red Hot Chili Pepper scar Tissue and the entirety of the soundtrack from D two
to the Mighty Ducks. I stand by that this was this was the only music that even resonated at all with me in the nineties, and as far as my fondest memories, and I know it's become a meme and it's become very you know, stereotypical, but the facts are the facts.
Me and my boys staying over at one.
Of my friend's houses, who you know, had a Nintendo sixty four. He was the only guy on the street that had won and he had just gotten the new game, Golden Eye, which was the first first person shooter ever, and we would stay up all night long just binging on Surgeon Dorito's and not the three D Doritos. Honestly, the regular Dorito's but still just gallons of surge and we would go ham on this Nintendo sixty.
Four four hours.
And I could also say as far as the.
Least fond memories of the nineties was actually because of my upbringing.
And I'll explain so, John Binney Ramsey.
Got pretty big in the nineties, and my mother, being my mother, became the ultimate helicopter mom, and we thought that she was crazy for that. At the time, there was an arcade at the Mall Louisiana where they parents would dropped their kids off and they would go shop and then they would come back and the kids would have.
A blast and it was all good.
My mother was of the belief that that could not happen. She couldn't let us go to restrooms by ourselves at movie theaters, she couldn't let us do anything like that, because what if somebody's in there waiting for you.
And we thought she was crazy. Hindsight twenty twenty. Mom knew what was up very early on.
And I gotta say, though, I know that while everybody says that the nineties ended with Y two K, I respectfully disagree for me anyway, as far as the.
Time frame of the nineties.
It ended with me in February of two thousand and one when Dale Earnhardt Sr.
Went into the wall.
I was watching the race that day with my dad, and that was pretty much when I felt the innocence.
And the old ways.
Died with him that day when he swooped in to try to get out to get Jeff Gordon out of the way so Dale Junior could take the whim and instead hit the wall face first at two hundred miles an hour.
That was it. That was it.
A bit of my childhood died that day. And yeah, I will say the nineties overall was a good time, but had its wildness with it. And I also can remember fond memories of my parents with their cellular phones, not cell phones, cellulars, and they were They had Singular wireless and if anybody can remember, Singular wireless got bought out by AT and T and it was that little
orange figure on it and whatever. But I remember thinking that this was the wildest thing because my parents would be sitting in the kitchen talking on their cell phone while we had a landline.
Two feet away from them, and somehow that was deemed normal. Oh and a.
Pager on their hips, so they had all of this going on, and it's not like they were like business types at all. I think this was their version of, like in the nineties, keeping up with the Joneses. But uh yeah, And I remember we had to get a secondary landline just so we could use the internet and the phone at the same time.
And we thought that was like hot shit.
But yeah, the.
Nineties were definitely an era unto themselves.
And you will know my name is the law.
But I lay my tender upon.
As a.
Welcome to Gudburger home out the Goodburger.
Can't I take yards? You can take the manager.
Sit right there, I'll tell you how it became.
The prince of a town called bel Air.
Cobain's body was found in a house in Seattle on Friday morning. He was dead of an apparently self inflicted shotgun blast to the head.
We have reports from Paris the Dinah, Princess of Wales has been killed in a car accidents.
Your body back, straights back, all right.