#665.5- CultXCosmic: BLOOD TIES 3

Oh, bel there, Trigger Warren.

This podcast may include explicit content that will take you out of your.

Comfort zone and make you question reality.

Listeners, discretion is advised.

Hello, and welcome back to the show. This is Blood Ties Part three and I am, of course really excited about this one. We left it on kind of a cliffhanger in the last one, a little bit about what we were going to talk about today, and it's some more of the inconsistencies with John Wayne Gacy and Ted Bundy. And of course we have Colby on this episode again. Hello, how are you Colby?

Tired?

Tired of me? Tired of life? Are you feeling suicidal? Are you having direk thoughts?

You should work for suicide hot line like Ted Bundy.

Yeah, you'd get off on it. So I'm going to start us off with a quote as usual. So the quote is quote like, you have a job. I have a job. He has a job. His job is killing people. That's what he was trained to do. In quote that comes from Cynthia Hayden, a djur in the Richard Ramirez trial, commenting on the convicted nightstalker. And I'm I mean, how can you sum it up.

Any better than that did she say this too?

I don't know. It just says Adjur in the Richard Ramirez trial commenting on him.

Where did you get the quote?

Program to Kill? I feel like, yeah, I was gonna say, I don't feel like David McGowan would put it in there if it was a fake quote.

Right, And I'm sure he said where it came from. I was just curious. I'm like, what what the context of the quote was.

Yeah, I don't know, but it's interesting to say the least. I feel like in the Program Him to Kill series, I spent a lot of time trying to set the ground for what we're going to talk about today, and I think what people were waiting to hear in the Program to Kill series is what we're going to talk about today.

Well, let's go get them so they could hear this.

Yeah. So I want to first start us off taking a little bit closer look at some of the weirdness with John Wayne Gacy and as a teenager, John Wayne Gacy worked in Las Vegas at both a mortuary and

Maybe he just liked skin on skin, cuddles.

With cold stiff Maybe that's why he was in there because the dead bodies had cold stiff ones.

Is that how it works?

He was gay? After you die? Did your dick still stand up?

I doubt it.

You think it's flaccid.

I'll let you know when I died.

Well, I'm just saying clearly he was into necrophilia, or he was molesting the dead bodies. I don't know if he was actually fucking him because he was gay, he could have fucked the dead ass though.

Why were they wearing clothes anyway? Do you usually have clothes on in the morgue.

In a mortuary? Isn't that where they get him dressed up to like for funerals?

Okay, so it wasn't a morgan. It was a mortuary that makes sense.

So maybe, yeah. I mean, can you imagine all those people's dead loved ones getting molested by jaycy after they're did?

I can if you want me to.

So. In the nineteen sixties, John lived in Waterloo, Iowa, where he owned several businesses, including four restaurants, a clothing design firm, and a motel. During that period of his life, he joined the j CS and quickly forged a bond with the man who soon became the local chapter president. This particular JC chapter was known at the time to be involved in prostitution, pornography, and various other crimes of vice.

So is it like the Rotary Club?

I guess so. I mean it was the sixties. I don't think there is such a thing as j c's anymore. But so he's getting involved.

Interesting how gay cy jc's.

He puts the gay and gay seeds. It's gross, I know, But so this particular chapter of the Jac's was involved in prostitution, pornography, and various other crimes.

So I mean is this child because if they're just like involved in prostitution and pornography, other crimes, advice that might be like gambling Black America gambling or.

Yeah, I mean it's not really specific on.

That, but I mean we've been talking so much in these series, in your past series about child pornography rings.

Mm hm, so I just the distinction isn't made there, So.

Yeah, it's not, but I mean, you get we could probably use our imagination with what that really because it's a nonprofit organization and we know what John Wayne Gacy was getting up to later in his life, so I can only imagine even if it was like regular prostitution and pornography, though it's like the CIA and like organized crime and shit, it's just I mean, two birds of a feather really, So, a local prosecutor identified Gacy's motel,

Well, and this is interesting because all of the narrative I've ever read, you know, and the low hanging mainstream true crime stuff.

It was always an emphasis on young men, you know, not men, but teenage boys. And this is saying he had both sexes work in his.

Businesses well, and then he set up this social club, and I mean.

He also seemed to take offense. It was something you mentioned.

I think in the last episode that people would refer to him as gay.

He would correct them and say he was bisexual.

He could have been. You know what the crazy thing is, like if a lot of the murders weren't really him, then there's probably a bunch more victims we never found out about, Like he could have killed other girls and like whoever. But they only found the bodies that were under his house.

Thirty three or right to shitload of bodies for under one.

House, No I know. So On March eleventh, nineteen sixty eight, Donald Borhe's junior, the son of a JC and former Iowa state representative, gave a statement to police alleging that Gaysey had assaulted and sodomized him. So he assaulted and sodomized the son of one of the oh the former

And then he so you're basically asking if the father may have been compliant.

Yeah, could be, or do you think this was.

I mean, he either had access to the kid, whether the father knew about it or not. But yeah, speculating, we do know that goes on.

Mm hmm. That's what's just kind of came to my mind because he, like we said before, he met the first lady and like was so respected and shit like that, and like maybe he's just let him do it. I don't know. But in early May, Gaysey was indided by a grand jury, though no further action was taken for several months about the assault asotomy of this JC kid.

A snitch.

Yeah, he is a fucking snitch. But the thing is he's talking about all this, and then his motel has found out to be upfront for like gay sex and straight sex or whatever, and he's got all these politician friends. I think that whoever the dad was of that kid let him do it, and maybe Gasey did something to piss him off, and then he was like, I'm telling everybody you raped my son.

What do you think I mean, that's possible.

Because they do what do we always talk about, They use kids as blackmail in political circles. So who's to say that he didn't get a hold of this kid his dad let him get train on and then they fucking took a video or something of him because he's

It's weird that it's on the record too. Did you think that would piece of evidence like this would be well known. Of course, we know they do sweep.

It under the rug.

When brought before a judge, Gaisey threw himself at the mercy of the court and entered a guilty plea on the assault asodomy of this kid. On December third, nineteen sixty eight. He was sentenced to a ten year term. He served less than two of those years, earning parole on June eighteenth, nineteen seventy. While in prison, he somehow managed to always have money, cigars and civilian shirts, all difficult commodities to attain for most prisoners.

So he had somebody giving him some commissary.

Yeah or well, and you know what I always say, if you want to know if they're involved in some shit, just look at their sentence. He was sentenced to ten years and he served less than two, and then it was really straight back out onto the street. And somebody was giving him all this money and shit while he was in there. So clearly he's not just a psycho. To me, this doesn't say I'm a low nut psycho serial killer. This screams I'm on a team.

Yeah.

And according to some reports, Gacy received electro shock and a version therapy while incarcerated, allegedly to cure him of his homosexuality, which is in American Horror Story Season two as uh huh. You remember when they take what's her name and they do a version therapy and they do something they make her throw up every time she watches gay porn or something. And I said this earlier on

It's got it all aliens, pedophiles. Mm hmm.

I mean, I think it is.

But pedophile aliens maybe, mm hmmm. Season twist.

So, just eight months after his release, he was again arrested, this time for disorderly conduct despite the vibe violation. Just eight months after that, he was released from parole. Another eight months after that, on the summer solstice of nineteen seventy two, he was again arrested and charged with aggravated battery and reckless conduct. Gaysey had allegedly offered a young man a ride on June seventh, identified himself as a

Well, and it's weird too, because he did I don't know if it was like volunteer work with the police, but he had established a relationship with the local police and did ride alongs and stuff, so maybe that was just like.

Oh, you think they did that as like a joke or like a nickname Gasey, Yeah, nickname, whether jokingly or otherwise, I don't know.

It could be something to that effect.

Well. I also thought, and you know this because I talk about it all the time, all the eights eight months after he was released from parole, eight months after that he was arrested again, I thought there was another aid in there.

Maybe he kicked him in clubbed him eight times.

Yeah, But anyways, I always find the eight to be really oh yeah. Eight months after his release. Eight months after that release from parole, Oh so yeah, there is three eighths in there. So anyways, he continues his murder spree and gets arrested again, and while his home was being searched, Gasey was taken to Holy Family Hospital for a medical examination, allegedly due to complaints of chest pains.

I mean, one thing that con validated is he obviously, just from what you were saying a little bit earlier, he was protected from on high by somebody. And it also makes me wonder that being the case. He blabbed the first time they took him in mm.

Hmm about all this other stuff that he was into with, you know, upper echelon of his.

Community, wife swapping.

And then well you know that one's not illegal, but the prostitution and the pornography, depending on what kind of pornography it was, but black market gambling in the legs. But you know, he's blabbing about that and then he starts doing this. Almost makes me wonder why he got to live up until his execution. But they never sent like a Jack Ruby type character after him to just pop him and shut him up.

I mean, does that make you think he was lying?

It doesn't necessarily mean he's lying. It's just like maybe he said enough or left enough out of what he was saying, because he would say what was going on, but he wouldn't drop names. He just alluded to the fact that he didn't work alone, he had associates, YadA, YadA. It's just strange to me because usually, like you get these guys, even when they, you know, spill the beans on everything they've done, they won't finger.

Others and they won't leave you alive usually, or they'll suicide you and take you somewhere.

Well, you would figure that like Epstein protocol, but I don't know.

Look at Charlie Manson, despite what we all think may have happened or may not have happened that night, he had a code of not being a snitch.

That he took rather seriously. Whether that was just part of his role or whatever.

But this is it just kind of Casey's always been one of those that is a part of all this stuff going on. But he's got or he's lacking certain markers, like he doesn't have military experience. He's one of the only ones out of all these major cigarette serial killers. But he does have political yeah, political, and you know, definitely organized shoulders with the mob, the police, other of these I don't know, processed church type organizations that all that kind of tie everybody together.

But he don't know, he just always seemed like an anomaly to me.

M m yeah. And the clown thing, well.

Yeah, I mean he's he's like one of those reasons that everybody's scared of clowns.

We have John Wayne Gacy and then Pennywise.

Who was also into kids.

Yeah, and I never knew if perhaps King I haven't heard one way or the other true inspiration from he.

Had to killer clown Yeah. Yeah. But so this instance where he's blabbing a little bit. So this interrogation was cut short by a Sergeant Long and then later resumed with two attorneys at Gaysey's side. No further mention was made of any accomplices, and the issue does not appear to have been pursued thereafter. So it kind of for me, if I'm just gonna say an opinion, I think that he was being honest about the accomplices.

Yeah, And I'm not saying he wasn't.

No, I know you're not. Just if I had it, like make an opinion out of the information provided, I'm gonna say I think he was telling the truth about the accomplices.

Yeah, and I mean he ruffled feathers, but apparently not enough to take him out.

Then he got to see I don't know how many years in prison. I don't know the exactly.

I don't know how long they let him sit in there for.

They get it was a while because.

By the time Jeffrey Dahmer was caught in the mid nineties or I guess that was early nineties. Still, that was a pretty significant amount of time because you know, there's the famous synchronicity of the eclipse with Dahmer getting baptized and Casey get yeah, Casey getting executed. So, yeah, he was in there for you know, between ten and twenty years.

Do you think if you keep them in there long enough, they'll just start saying crazy shit so they can get out of their cell, like Charles Manson.

Well, also the ship that Bundy pulled when.

He oh god, I won't even get me started on that.

They stayed that execution like fucking a dozen times or some shit, and.

Then he blamed it all on pornography.

Well, yeah, he wanted his ex girlfriend to show up and he would I'll tell where these bodies are, but only her, And it was just like, I don't know a circus really, But yeah, it kind of seems like Gaycy near the end of his life kind of just took his fate.

He get the Gaysy tapes, right, and that was like his chance to say shit. And he didn't say anything about composes and stuff in those tapes, so they either got him good and shut up on that or he lied.

Well I had listened to I think I would think I have mentioned this in this series already, But it's another set of tapes that a young journalist independently started reaching out. And the whole thing that was funny was this guy knew that Gasey wanted to fuck him, and they would He would kind of just like laugh it off and change the subject.

But anyway he couldn't just flat out turn him down. He'd be like, so you're gonna come pay me a visit and we're gonna fuck. Like I would be like, well, let's talk about this.

But anyway, he got him to allude to some things, much like what Gasey had been saying when he was you know, taken in, but he never really would get specific about it, and he would kind of change the subject back.

To like wanting to fuck the guy.

Yeah, and they were just playing this weird tennis game. But yeah, it does seem for the most part, he really never said anything significant other than he didn't work alone.

Well, there is just a little bit of substantial proof to back up the theory that he wasn't working alone, because the homicide rate in the Chicago area soared following Gaysey's arrest, possibly indicating that a large cleanup operation ensued, and on December twenty eighth, a week after John's arrest, a fresh body was fished from the des Plains River.

Well even just with the time span they'd have to be. They're still happening today.

Mm hmm. I think there was just one in outside of Austin, Texas, and earlier in this year, Yeah, there was. There's a lot, a lot of interesting theories on Smiley faced killers. It's all. It's kind of rescissent of.

Zodiac where they didn't really just at any point come up with just one figurehead to take the blame for it all. It's almost like a cautionary tell, like your son's going to a college party that don't walk home drunk alone, you end up in the river.

I mean right, yeah, I mean do you think there could have been like Gaysey could have been part of a weird smiley face cult.

Well, I mean possibly, but his oh was getting these kids back to his house and having the bodies, you know, stashed away under his floorboards.

Or whatever, And.

That doesn't really fit the smiley face killer, not saying he couldn't have been out there having fun doing that too.

Well, no, I'm saying they could have been working in tandem.

Yeah, and he could have been helping out.

But you know, who knows, just saying if there's multiple assailants, it's like I said, they might each have a style. Right, And Gaysey gets locked up and there's still bodies piling up. Now they're finding them in the fucking river.

So well, Chicago's never been a stranger to weird violent crimes.

Well, here we here we go with another point too. Although Gaysey confessed to being a mass murderer, he had very little knowledge of the crimes to which he confessed. He claimed, for instance, that all of the victims were strangled, but forensic evidence suggested that at least thirteen of them had been suffocated. He provided a map of the locations of the bodies under his house that press reports claimed

Yeah, think of season five of Dexter, and if anybody out there hasn't seen that, it's it opens up with Dexter finding a guy who's killing women and storing them in formaldehyde in barrels, and he kills the guy and then he finds a victim who survived and she lets him know that he's just like the clean up guy.

They bring him the girls to put out of their misery. So Gasey's house could have been such a place where they know they've got this stick fuck who likes to choke.

Boys, and they my god, through the ringer and then they take them there. He has his fun finishes them off.

Then maybe there's a team of people three or four putting bodies under the house.

Oh my god, that's a brilliant theory.

Well it's just a theory.

Because he is like a garbage disposal.

Yeah, I mean, he's.

A big, fat, sweaty gross.

Literally looks like he could be a garbage.

Man, Like he's throws. So they do all this stuff to these kids and then they kind of take them back to Gacy's house. He finishes them off, and then like maybe he buries some maybe they bury.

Some kind of thing. I mean, who knows, damn.

And Gacy was able to recall sketchy details of only five of the killings. Of the other twenty eight, he had no memory at all. He claimed that the murders began in nineteen seventy four, but then later stated that the first occurred in January nineteen seventy two. He attributed all of the murders to an alter personality that he referred to as Jack Hanley, Which brings me to another point. Do you think that he doesn't remember killing all of

It is either could be the case.

But also when you get a guy like this, he's just running out the mouth every chance he got before he was in curged rated indefinitely, a guy like that, you know he might have just a tactic of his was like, maybe if I'm a little fuzzy on the details, I could you know, you could get a stay of execution, possibly by an insanity play. And so he starts being fuzzy with the details, and then he starts claiming that

I could go either way on that, yeah, because you would want to do anything you could to stay alive, even if it was like another month.

Right.

So then I don't know the laws in Illinois, but you could get a stay of execution based on insanity in some states. Yeah, I assume that that's a possibility there. They're a pretty liberal judicial system.

Well that's pretty much all I wanted to touch on with Gasey. Do you have anything else, like you feel like we left out before we move on?

I mean, I can't think of anything that is pressing that we didn't talk about.

It just seems like this what the information that I just provided you never sees the light of day as far as documentaries are concerned, but leans more towards the program to kill idea for sure.

Yeah.

And I mean, just to even assume, knowing everything we know, if you've been listening up to this point through all these series, the official narrative is always going to be a narrative and if they're selling the loan nut I know model to us when it comes to every single one of these serial killers. Yeah, Gaysey's definitely not someone

I don't know. The guy liked to talk.

He was he would talk to anybody who who started a correspondence with him.

Behind bars, he probably talked to his fucking self. Yeah, like legit insane stuff.

Hey, John h Yeah, yeah, Jack. What was his name, Jack Hanley?

Yeah, Jack Jack. Yeah.

Mainly the imagination is certainly lacking there. My name was John, and then I had an alter ego.

I'd be like, it's Jack. I mean, if you grew up with the name.

So bland as John, you'd be like, yeah, Pedro Hanley.

But no, it's just Jack. It's just Jack, John and Jack.

John and Jack. Yeah, if you had an altar, would what would you name them?

Tony Tony.

That's right, you do have an altar.

Tony's blackout line alter alter ego.

Yeah, he he uh, he's fun that about Tony. Do I have one?

Wouldn't you like to know?

I would like to know, so I kind of want to switch gears a little bit and move on to our next serial killer, Ted Bundy.

He didn't look like anybody's notion of somebody who would tear apart young girls.

When pat Buddy, I've never spoken to anybody about this. I am looking for an opportunity to tell the story as past I can.

Person of this type chooses his duke for a reason possession control files.

There was something unique about tense brain. He talked in terms of a voice in his head, and this voice would start saying things about women.

Yet very blue eyes when he really got to go, and his eyes went absolutely black.

Murder, leaving the cherson of this type hungry unfulfilled, would also leave him with the obviously irrational belief that the next time he did it he would be fulfilled, and the next time he did it he would be fulfilled, or the next time he did it he would be fulfilled. Theodore Bundy has escaped, suspected of dozens of sex killings in Washington State, Idaho, Utah, and Colorado.

I think things are going to work out That's about all I have to say.

Monday is acting as an own lawyer.

What is unusual to see is that many of the onlookers are women.

You a little scared when you.

Look at him.

He just doesn't look like the type to kill combany real killer.

Theodore Bundy has escaped once again, one of the FBI's most wanted man.

He was charming and looking Mark, sure you have the right guy.

I mean, I thought it animal and I'm not crazy.

I'm a bit personality, the normal.

Individual, interesting motherfucker, and I have a little bit of information. I feel like if anybody is up to speed with true crime stuff, they already kind of know about the mainstream his victims and stuff like that. So I want to just talk about some of the stuff that you're not going to find in the Netflix documentary. So Ted Bundy's mom, Louise, legally changed Ted's name from Theodore Robert Cowell to Theodore Robert Nelson for no discernible reason whatsoever.

Well, I don't know, you're saying his mom's.

Louise, but he only knew her as his mom, So I'm taking it this is his grandmother. Yeah, so she gets Ted his name is Theodore Robert Cowell and then she changes it to Theodore Robert Nelson, and then she ends up getting married to uh Bundy and changes his name again to Bundy. But there's this weirdness like he doesn't have a birth certificate and stuff like that. There's almost no record of him ever being born.

Yeah, he's It's We've maybe said this already, but it's strikingly similar to Jack Nicholson's story, Jack Nicholson's mom. And when you say that Ted Bundy's mom was his sister, don't think that, like his sister was impregnated and gave birth to him. He thought his mom was his sister because she had him so young. I mean, just in case that, you know, confused some people.

Bit.

Yeah, so he was raised by his grandmother, thought his grandmother was his mom.

I mean, did he ever know the truth about.

That way later in life? Yeah?

I think Jack Nicholson was thirty seven years.

Old when he yeah, so so was Ted Bundy, and they.

He said, played by Jack Nicholson.

Dude, I said that, and somebody got mad as fuck at me.

Oh, let's not have some fun and kick around some crazy ideas. I mean, it sounds like you're marrying yourself too.

Do you want to know? It's ironic? I said it on Dangerous World podcast and I got fucking attacked as fuck after I said that, and they were showing me all these ry no no, no, no, no, oh yeah listeners Ryan's listeners, because they were like, look at this picture Jack Nicholson, and look at this picture of Ted Bundy. But it's like we were talking to our guest that we had on earlier. There's characters, and I feel like they're interchangeable. Sometimes they get swapped out and shit and

Yeah, it's all strange.

So this Johnny Culpepper Bundy, by the way, was a former Navy man and himself and a bunch of his family members were employed at a military hospital at a joint Army slash Air Force complex. So this was taking place in the early seventies, and so we were talking about Jack Nicholson, we might as well say, like, this is more Laurel Kenyony type shit with Ted.

With the military connections, I mean a military hospitals, bases, daycares.

Seemed to be some very nefarious stuff being covered up with these places.

Yeah, and so Ted attended Woodrow Wilson High School in Tacoma, Washington, at least according to his former classmates, he did. But here's the thing that cannot be verified, since all records of Bundy's enrollment there have strangely disappeared, just like it's sucking birth certificate.

Well, was there ever a birth certificate?

Like see a fucking homunculous baby?

You're acting like, I mean, I'm not saying you're saying this, but the way this is worded, that his enrollment records disappeared.

But did they ever exist? It's not like they went in there and cleaned.

This guy up, right, I surely said, but I mean they don't exist.

So but did they at one point?

Because that's kind of what they try to say about Bob Lazar when his story about all this a UFO shit. They went and looked at where he claimed to have gone to school and they're like, oh my gosh, they got.

Rid of all the records I was even here. But with with Ted Bundy.

Mounculus, the way you put it, I'm picturing like you just found a kid or you were handed this kid might not even be your daughter's kid, but you raised this kid for whatever reason. I mean, they're saying that it's the daughter's kid of this woman who raised him.

Louise, But we don't know that.

We don't know what the fuck Louise was into, and maybe this is one of those kids that.

They yeah, manipulated and then gave to a handler.

Whoever Louise is That to me makes more sense than the sister getting pregnant.

Right, I'm not saying she did it.

I mean there's the tell tale always his real mom was a prostitute. She would service her clientele right in the presence of young Ted. But it also makes you wonder, like, how long did she even have him? In this narrative and this story, how long did this woman have this kid? But she was pulling tricks while he was in the same you know.

Studio before the grandma got him.

Yeah, but it just seems like in this story, the grandma would have taken him immediately. I don't know unless.

Unless it's like we were saying, and it's all just a story.

Yeah, like why is this old woman have this young kid? And you know, you could say, oh, it was her daughter's kid, really, but.

For some reason she ends up with him. She changes his name twice, she shack, She fucking pairs up with this was it Navy?

Yeah he maybe guy and.

Changes her his name to his name Johnny Culpepper Bundy to Yeah.

So weirdness, right, I mean, did the guy adopt him? Not that I know of. So and so here's the thing. In July of nineteen seventy three, Bundy flew to the San Francisco area, just as the dusk was settling from the fucking spree of Zodiac ritual murders that had terrorized the city. Interesting timing, not really.

You know, your your one preak shows kind of losing it. It's zest with the crowd. You gotta get them something new. So it makes perfect sense they would fla Bundy in there.

But it's like we were saying in the very first episode, all those other serial killers were the training wheels for bringing in like the Bundies and shit. We don't even know where Bundy fucking came from, honestly, right, like literally he just dropped off at this That's how.

I like got a cover story with lots of holes in.

Then, just after his return to Washington, women began disappearing from the Seattle Tacoma area. Before that time, the Seattle area had experienced very few murders, but that was about to change drastically. So my other theory is, did he go to San Francisco to get trained because there were no murders going on at all. He flies to San

Well, and then you referred it makes me think of.

The crime scenes and True Detective that a lot of the stuff that Bundy was first doing, the twigs.

And berries, the twigs and berries.

So you know, that sounds like all that random shit that started popping off in the Santa Cruz Hills where you have these like almost ludicrous to the amount of being like bad TV, just fucking coult slaughters m It's just they're just going through the fucking mountains around that Santa Cruz area.

But I mean maybe he was a part of that.

Maybe that was like they saw the Phoenix program's success in Vietnam and then they come back here and they're like, we could just do this here, and you know, Santa Cruz, San Francisco, that whole area, and now like we need to expand, we need some new franchises. We could get this Ted guy to manage the Seattle area. You know, he could just be put loose there.

Mm hm. And July nineteen seventy three when he flew to San Francis Cisco, that was a year after William Colby came back. Yeah, so God only knows now. The body of the first victim attributed to Bundy was found on December sixth, nineteen seventy three. Catherine Mary Divine. She had last been seen two weeks earlier getting into a pickup truck after running away from home. The man from whom she will accepted the ride was not Ted Bundy,

Well, the whole animal thing.

Yes, predatory animals will go for the liver, like with the when a wolf pack takes down and elk. The alpha gets the liver, but you just don't stop eating. Oh we got the lungs and the liver and what else is missing?

The heart?

M h.

Yeah, animals don't just like go for the gourmet and then just leave the scraps.

So that's kind of weird. Also, the other.

Question was, well, she got into a truck. Witness confirmed was not Ted Bundy, right, but they attributed this as his very first victim. None of the other victims they found that were attributed to Tad Bundy had missing organs. So where was this? This was in the Seattle area, okay, seventy three. So next to disappear was Linda Heey in the morning hours of February first, nineteen seventy four. According to the official version of events, Linda was abducted from

I mean, are you suggesting that this may have been done somewhere else? Or yeah, maybe.

Not at all, because maybe not at all.

Their blood.

They said that there was blood on her mattress, but I looked at the pictures. Definitely could have been period blood. To me, it could have been old blood.

That was it.

Mm hmmm.

And she was allegedly bludgeoned.

Mm hmmm.

I mean, if you nick your forehead, it bleeds like a stuck pig. So to have your fucking skull bashed the fuck in makes me, Hey, you're gonna make some noises.

No signs of a struggle too, didn't wake a single person.

Well, god knows, when you kill somebody, you want to take him out then return to make the bed.

That makes a hell of a lot of sense, but it just does it.

So he's cleaning up her room for her, Yeah, after killing her. He didn't want to. That's any other rap with your roommates.

Grabbed, hung her night gown up, grabbed her the dead body, a change of clothes, So can we say maybe Linda and heally, is it real?

I don't know.

Do you think she's a character because she was also on.

The news, right, I don't think she would have to be fake to be a part of all this.

No, she wasn't like a news anchor, right.

So when you say she was on the news, you.

Well like a character, so you should tell.

You know, you keep alluding to the episode that we did earlier for our other shows. We did kind of a swapcast thing with a guest who's not quite to the level of human vibrations but also very much on the wagon that much of this stuff is not only exaggerated, but you know, sometimes just straight up created. So yeah, if she's like a newscaster, some I mean newscasters are at least like, in small pockets, celebrities of type.

I mean you'll see them out at dinner and you're like, oh my god, she's on the news.

So I mean, yeah, who knows she could have been a character because the fact that.

They found this bashed in skull and identified it off of one tooth, and the type of forensics they were doing in the seventies wasn't like they took DNA from that tooth. They just said, this looks like one of Linda's teeth. This must be Linda.

Well, many people, especially I don't know.

This was the seventies, so it might not have been as common, But most people have dental records, and it's supposed to be one of the most.

You know, tight form of science.

It's not like DNA science, which is flawed in lots of ways, but your dental records are supposed to be pretty spot on, almost.

Like fingerprints, like one tooth do you think.

I don't know the extent of it, but I do know that they have identified bodies burned beyond record. I mean it could have been but whether it was her being killed at all or not being killed at this house, the fact that.

They want to paint.

The narrative that this is where the murder took place, but they didn't even bother to like go stage a crime scene. This woman disappears a skull that couldn't have been hers, I mean, based on so what was it the mom said?

The mom said, the positive identification of this skull was based on a single tooth.

So is she saying that in like a doubtful way yeah, okay.

I mean, I think if it was your kids.

So she's like, you'd want more than that in the depths.

Of woe, like to the level of Johnny Gosh's mom perhaps, and she doesn't buy the bullshit their feet in her Yeah, it's very sketchy, And the fact that it's supposed to be one of Bundy's first victims is kind of weird too, because you know.

It seems meticulous for someone who's just getting started, that's for fucking sure.

If that's the funny thing about Bundy is he seemed to start meticulous, and near the end of his reign he was going into a goddamn dormitory with a hammer and just fucking.

Going all out dismastic.

It's in whack a mole. Yeah, fucking arcade.

Well, so, okay, if this was even Bundy, right, So that's another theory.

If it was Bundy, somebody went out of their way to make this look like something it wasn't.

Right.

This is also.

Interesting now, the Pacific Northwest was also dealing with another emerging problem in the spring of nineteen seventy four, which was an abundance of what we're referred to as cattle mutilations. Conspiracy theories, frequently involving UFOs and alien experimentation floated around, but many police investigators and independent researchers linked those occurrences to local satanic cult activity because they would secretly love to

Always We've had cattle mutilations and serial killers since the seventies.

It's never like stopped.

What do you think it is because it's so close to Seattle or what? What do you mean this Pacific Northwest like where we are in like Oregon, the I five murders and all that. Do you think like, well, it comes from there, and like trickles.

Down, we happen to be damn near sin Point between Portland and San Francisco. And then Seattle's only a few hours in car north of Portland.

So you're saying we could be victims of a potential future serial killer.

I mean, you don't give them any ideas. If they want to shut you up.

I've donet let the cat out of the bag.

I mean, I can see the I five from our window.

Oh god, the I five is the freeway we take when we take the freeway.

I'm just learning this. So on July third, nineteen seventy four, a law enforcement summit was held in Olympia, Washington that was attended by one hundred representatives from Washington and Oregon.

Well, all it kind of is reminiscent of me to how the military always seems to know who they're going to be fighting in what area way before the war actually breaks out. So it's like, yeah, they're gearing up knowing that this is going to be the next big thing they're fighting against. Why do they know that at this early on? It's this It's nineteen seventy four, still, I mean, this is definitely enough time has passed since the Manson killings.

This is five years later, and.

You think they were being on the offensive or defensive? I mean, or do you think that they were planning this shit?

Well, I don't think it would have gone down to that.

The level of all the law enforcement people, I think that they're definitely role players in this game, most.

Of them, probably unwittingly.

You know, they're just little ponds in the grand scheme of things. But yeah, whoever set this meeting up or summit, it was, yeah, here's the next thing for you.

This is going to be an issue by nineteen eighty, there's gonna be twenty by in nineteen ninety, there could be hundreds.

Yeah, no joke, it's almost also like when Fauci and all these fuckers meet up and they're.

Like the World Economic Forum.

No, no, no, not even them.

It's just like these drills that they run like at John Hopkins University.

Like what if there was a pandemic type shit. Yeah, that's that's what it felt.

Like, preparing for what we know is going to happen.

Yeah. When I read that about the summit, I was thinking, this is, you know, like a rehearsal for the big show.

Like, yeah, they're having a little pepp rally.

Yeah. So, each of the seven girls that disappeared, Katherine Divine, Linda and Healey, Donna Manson, Susan Rancourt, Kathleen Parks, Brenda Ball, and Susanne Hawkins had vanished without a single clue having been left behind. There were no witnesses and no forensic evidence to tie anyone to any of the crime scenes. In some of the cases, it couldn't even be determined

Well, you also got to take into consideration the fact that the serial killer phenomenon being slightly new.

Do they even have like advanced for in teams? Why would a local police station even be able to deal with something that's never been an issue before? Because that's very true.

You're not having these murders left and right until the late seventies, late sixties through the mid seventies where it really.

Starts to take off.

Having a summit like this would be like, and now we need all this money too to fight this new emergence of all these serial killers. So I think pretty much nice back in the day, the FBI would just step in.

Yeah, they weren't equipped to handle it on the local level.

Yeah, I mean you always bring up good points. That gets me to thinking about shit, because how about this. Not only is there no good forensics and shit like to in, no good crime scene investigating, like they don't even know what they're doing. Really, they could have been

That that would be just at first glance, not a bad theory.

I don't In all of the documentaries, you only ever see adult pictures of them. There's no pictures of them as babies, there's no pictures of them as kids.

One of them's a local news celebrity.

Mm hmm, what if and that sucks for Let's just say they are real, and like, there's victims family members out there that would be like fuck you, But like what if they were what if they were all fake?

If you're a victim family member who would like to reach out and say fuck you Julia, you can go to cosmicpeach dot com send her an email, and if you don't get any keep going with the theory.

But yeah, so I mean to disappear without a trace, and I don't know, like in all of the documentaries, it's only one family member that's like, yeah, they were taken and they can find crisis actors really easy, and shit, you know they've done that a million times.

Oh and you know we always talk about how back when they first start doing these staged events slash false flags. They didn't have Internet sleuths willing to tear it apart the minute the shit gets put out. They're gonna look for holes in the story. They're gonna look for inconsistencies.

They're gonna look for Oh, this person also showed up at the Boston marathon bombing. She was the one that was there at the Parkland school shooting. She was also at Sandy Hook. Back then, they didn't have anything going on like that, so they could be so sloppy and just, yeah, disappear people who never really existed in the first place.

Is something that would be easy to pull off.

You're not going to have people come out and say, anybody who knew them come forward and talk to me so I can verify if I think this person's real or not.

I mean, that's just can you imagine in the seventies the level of.

Oh yeah, thoughts, oh yeah, it was non existent.

Really, I mean, you would just most people would just take.

They said it, so therefore it is true.

Yeah, it's on the news, and I don't know anybody that knows this person. But look, they just interviewed somebody who said they were their friend and they're crying, so this is real.

Yeah, and they also made Ted Bunny you have to be like a handsome, good looking get dude and like, look,

I mean, the timing of it or the lack of like witness testimony, and also the witness testimon Well that does.

Stand is calling this guy a blonde.

There's several layers to this, because let's go with this. They hold the summit and they say, all these girls are gone missing, what are we going to do about it? Just days later they got a name for this guy.

And they're also showing you how easy this happens.

Look, you can be abducted right in the middle of a fucking please conference or pretty much police picnic policic. I mean, yeah, they're off duty, they're probably tying one on, eating lots of food and not really acting like they're on the job.

But it's just not a good look.

Also, out of thousands of people that were at the park, one of them said he was a sandy, blondheaded person. The other witnesses varied on what he looked like.

And well, remember Ted could change what he looked like just by wanting to.

According to the.

Lot in the Dead Puss Smell.

Yeah, yeah, he's walking around in a cloud of stench.

Now, how about this if they if these girls didn't even exist and they just had some people like, Hey, so you saw a guy today that well, I mean, what do you think about that?

I mean, it's always a possibility in my mind that these things are orchestrated.

Especially when.

I don't know you you have this legendary serial killer, Ted Bundy, where this is just the start of it, and there's already so many inconsistencies in it. And when you get near the end of Ted's killing spree, he's killing people like two counties apart in Florida, where to clean up the crime of his first killing and then get to it. Even in the best traffic scenario where there's no delay, he still couldn't have done it.

So this shit continues throughout his entire story.

It seems to be, you know, all these holes in the story from day one and then all the way to the end.

Yeah, I'm actually gonna touch on one of those closer to the end of the episode, because it's just so. It's like you were saying, it's just almost impossible for this stuff to all have been him. But like, why the fuck would this stealthy killer choose to show his face before thousands of potential witnesses, and why would he

Good question.

And they're having this picnic and shit, like you would think a motherfucker would have noticed him, or he would have been in like a photo bomb like some lawyer's waldo type shit somewhere, and get this shit. One witness saw a girl matching Denise Naslin's description ride off from

You just broke the case. Ted was the day Them's all alone. He was a trance and I would have got away with it too if it wasn't for you pesty podcasters.

So there are witnesses that say they see someone that looked exactly like Denise Nasalin right off and obviously struggling with a biker gang. And then Denise Naslyn's mother writes something for her memorial that says, God, forgive them for what they've done.

Why why angels?

Yeah, I mean it is the seventies. It's I don't know, it's just all to me. It's like a bunch of random shit that they've like placed on.

Biker gangs play a significant and interesting role in a lot of this stuff, going back to the Laurel Canyon and San Francisco music scenes. They rubbed shoulders with a lot of these other people who are kind of tied into all this other stuff.

Hunter s.

Thompson, the stabbing at the Three Rolling Stones concert, Oh, the Fremont Yeah, or the ultramont so and you know, biker gangs were a prominent feature of the sixties and seventies.

But it is something that pops up a lot in weird places.

It's almost like, you know, when you're looking at a staged scene of chaos, they always strategically place shoes and something to.

Do with firefighters. But it's like the fucking biker gangs play a weird.

Role they're in. They're always like.

In the LSD movement, they were in like all the big underground drug markets in the seventies too.

Well, I was gonna say, it's like they're always in the background somewhere, you know.

Yeah, they're like foot soldiers.

So the fact that she was taken off from this picnic by a biker gang doesn't seem that insignificant.

No, we're random and so following the like some mammish disappearances, the task force tracking the Seattle killer was dubbed the Ted Squad, and.

It'll be a killer fucking movie, Ted Squad. I could see like Robert Rodriguez directing a Tarantino executive producing Ted Squad.

It would be a cool movie, just like Jim Morrison and Charles Manson, like the real story, the real Ted Bundy. You know.

Uh.

And one of the very first teds ever reported to the task force was none other than Theodore Robert.

But so they're just going around looking at any Ted Nick could find.

Yeah, they were also looking at any Volkswagon they could find, because they said that he drove a volts Wagon.

So wasn't it the Shining Book had the Volkswagen being yellow and Kubrick changed it to red?

Or was it the vice versa?

So Kubrick made the change to the yellow bug that to me always made.

If that doesn't make you think of Ted Bundy.

And Jack Nicholson Ted Bundy.

Again, that's why I brought that up.

Literally, the connections are weird.

Jack Nicholson's almost like a Forrest, gumpy and kind of player in a lot of this ship. I mean I always said, if you could get anybody to be honest with you that's still alive today and get him to spill the beans on all this, Jack Nicholson would be a good one.

Get alone in a room with some I would love to pick his brain.

Yeah, I mean it sounds like he's kind of on the decline mentally lately. I've heard a lot of weird stuff about he's just kind of looking or acting crazy.

Isn't he like a million years old?

Well, he would be eighty close to it.

But so.

Here's a question for you, babe. You know how they say Ted Bundy's appearance could change and it's like he was a completely different person. What if it was because he was a completely different person.

That's always been on the forefront of my mind when people say shit like that, like, yeah, he's a chameleon, like sometimes it didn't even look like the same guy. I mean that was the direct quote from a direct from a neighbor of his in Florida.

Uh huh.

And just for him to like say shit like that if that's real witness testimony.

Yeah, we talk about like body doubles and stuff all the time, and or many people playing one role.

Have you seen a young picture of Jack Nicholson young? How young like when he first got started?

Oh yeah, I mean I loved those I literally getting.

Him to look like Ted Bundy. Yeah, the skinny bridge on the nose and like the dapper kind of pushed over hair and at the beach they said he had sandy blonde hair, right, And Jack Nicholson had sandy blonde hair, did he didn't he?

I think it's always been on the more brunette side, But fucking hair color is easy to deal with. I don't know, you know, it's not ever a theory that I really gave too much credence to. It was always fun to just kick it around. But there are weird ties. Even in Program to Kill, McGowan made the comparison. He's talking about Jack Nicholson and weird sceninges inside the Canyon, and he.

References this his second book, Program to Kill.

When he's talking about Jack Nicholson, he's saying, this is very reminiscent of Ted Bundy's story.

So he he made a loose connection.

I don't think he was trying to take it to where we are.

I'll only take it there because why not.

I mean, I can't with why not? Because they do a lot of shit.

They use actors, they use created personas to push shit like this and oftentimes, like we've talked about Morrison being a literal actor and Morrison being you know, yeah, maybe that was his real name.

But Ted Bundy's literally came out of thin air.

So yeah, and with this whole Ted Squad thing, his name was actually turned in by his friend who we mentioned before in the last episode, the true crime author and Rule, who by the way, attended the fucking law enforcement summit we spoke about earlier, and they pretty much announced that they needed to find the bad guy who was abducting bitches, and Rule was in attendance. And then she was the first one to give his name to the police. And she was friends with him, Okay, and then.

Where this creative story.

That's what I'm saying. She's an author anyway, she likes stories. And then Ted would also later be reported by his fiance Liz Deadpuss enthusiast Captford. But while we're talking about and Rule, I want to go over a couple points here because it's important. In the late sixties, Bundy briefly dated Kathy Swindler, daughter of Herb Swindler, who would later become head of homicide with the Seattle Police Department during the beginning of the murder spree. He was also, of course,

Yeah, these are small circles.

Literally. Anne Rule had at least second hand connections to two Bundy victims. Denise Naslin that disappeared from Lake Samamish babysat for a friend of hers, and Brenda Ball was an acquaintance of her daughters. So Anne Rule is the first she attends the summit. She works with Bundy. She is a true crime author, She's good with stories and shit, and she knows two of the victims, and fucking I mean, it's.

Just what she's speared to me, constructing the whole thing to help her writing career.

It's not to help her writing career.

I bet she's a true crime novelist. She's basically creating or she's right in the middle of all the shit that's going on.

That's going to be the main thing she's probably gonna write about for the rest of her life.

I mean, I don't know her work outside of this stuff.

I've read a ton of her book.

Her claim to fame is this.

Yeah, so the Stranger beside Me.

If this was some cheesy, fucking eighties action movie, think of Basic Instinct.

You know that was the premise, was that Sharon Stone's character was a mystery novelist. I'm not necessarily saying that's what I think is going on, but it is just weird that she's she knows him, she has connections to the victims, and she's at this summit and days later, this other thing happens, and then she reports him to the TED squad.

Yep.

Awfully weird places to be for a woman who's not related.

To any of it. Yeah, no, I know, I don't even know why she was there.

Well, I mean, at the conference, I can understand why she was there, But she just happens to be in all these weird places and tight end with all these people of various aspects of this of this Bundy saga.

And you know, she does kind of play a part in what happens after he gets arrested, because she was one of the ones that was Like, she's guilty of sensationalizing him too, you know, So if she's a part of the beginning, she's a part of like the after too, like the aftermath of it, writing books and going on TV talking about interviews of his character and this stranger beside me and all this stuff. Like she made a celebrity out of him, you know, she was one of.

The first ones and herself mm hmmm, I mean she's making herself famous.

Yeah. Another interesting point is that anthropologist Daris Swindler, who'd worked on identifying some of Bundy's victims in Washington, happened to be in Tallahassee on the night of the kya Omega murders.

Why is an anthropologist helping identify victims?

Is that just.

Like that's just happened to be what he does. He's an anthropologist, he's not like a.

And he's related to Kathy Swindler, the girl he dated. Where is it. Yeah, he's related to Kathy Swindler, the one he dated, and Herb Swindler, the one who became the head of homicide during the murders Free and he's in Tallahassee on the night of the Kyomega murders.

See.

That's always the things you gotta look for is people that keep I mean this is literally on the opposite corner of the United States.

Yeah, and right in Washington, Washington, and then he shows up in Tallahassee on the night of the Kyomega murders.

Yeah.

I mean, these kind of things are the one They're the ones that make me think the most that you can say it and say it and say it and say it till you're blue in the face. You can't believe in coincidences when they keep happening.

In the most convenient ways. There are there is such a thing as coincidence, but not usually in this kind of shit.

Well, and to even drive that point home further about coincidences, Bundy was born on the twenty fourth of November, executed on the twenty fourth of January, and his inmate ID zero six nine zero six three sums up to twenty four. So we have three twenty fours, four five, six, six sixty six. Are you getting Jamatria, No, I'm saying four plus two is six, so six six six, I'm.

Just saying, hey, it is. So does Ted Bundy really the devil?

I don't know. I think it's all part of the game. You know, it's like a joke to them, the twenty fourth, twenty fourth. His number is the twenty fourth. What do you think I might look for stuff in numbers?

Yeah, I on my show, my co host, he's really big into another numerical patterns, whether it be numerology, Jamatria, goa Matria.

He'll correct me if I say it wrong, But yeah, I like, I think they're fun. But I don't put as much stock in that kind of shit as I do the other shit. We were just talking about where this guy's here and he happens to help identify the bodies, and then wouldn't you know it, he just happens to be in Tallahassee the night though. That shit, to me is more interesting than like, I'll look at all these numbers shit, and yeah, I'm probably that even was planned out by somebody.

But I think you're right about like looking for the connections with this guy identifying the victims and stuff.

Well, and it's not just him. I mean, throughout all these stories, there's very conveniently placed people that play crucial roles in totally unrelated things or a big, big like mass operation like Ted Bundy where it is related, but still like the just the small chances that he would be at those two places. He's a character in all this.

Yep.

So those are the patterns I like to point out. The numbers thing is fun, don't.

Yeah, no, I think it is at least and you know how I am about the eights. So it was later determined that both girls who disappeared from Lake Samamish had been strangled or bludg into death, but that was a largely speculative conclusion. Only the girl's skulls and a few assorted bones were ever found, and actually the fact that only the skulls of the girls were ever found further fueled the belief that the killings were somehow cult related.

I mean, it is.

A strange city. I've been there and just all of the innovation that's taken place there, Peck industry, lots of the corporate shit started there, and it's just it's an oddly placed city, kind of nustled off of the Pugot Sound or is it fugit, but it's I felt like that city shouldn't be there the way it's built.

And San Francisco is very similar.

There's just hills where they build these roads that are just just like you're on a roller coaster. It's not a good place to learn how to drive stick shift. And it's just like, what is it about these certain focal points that have chosen you know, maybe Freemasons knew something about this is where a town needs to be or whatever. Have fun with your imagination on That could be a number of reasons, but there's a reason certain cities.

Are where they are.

Eugene, Oregon's another great example of that. There's some kind of frequency with Eugene, Oregon where the Russians and the CIA were using it as a focal point to test all this weird technology on us on each other. But getting back to the point of Seattle, the music scene also, and just you go to Seattle and surrounding areas and it's just foggy and dreary, and then there's Heroin and fucking Starbucks, and it's just a weird feeling that you feel it when you're there.

Anyway, I'm speaking for myself, but I've.

Heard other people say that, like, if you want to be if you fucking want to cure a depression, you don't move to Seattle.

Well, yeah, and they filmed a lot of Twilight there for that reason.

Was that in Seattle or Portland.

They filmed it some in Portland and.

Some in Seattle, and Portland to me, is very similar in the dreariness, it's not quite the same. I mean, the atmosphere is similar, but Seattle just seems weird, like the energy's off. Yeah, probably like Eugene.

I lived in Eugene for about six months.

Did your nipples get hard, Well, they're always hard. Did you feel weird?

Though?

I thought it was the strangest city I've ever lived in. I actually drove a two am to six am paper route and there was like another city that just emerged at night. Like I kind of started believing vampires after I lived in there. You just see weird shit.

At night, and like skin walkers, no.

Just like people that seem out of place.

And I'm not talking about junkies, they're just like they're different. Yeah, And it's it's weird because I mean I was driving in all different parts of the city and wherever you went, every night, I would see something weird. And I just got to thinking, like after years after I lived there, and I learned all of this stuff that Jeremiah was researching for an episode we did, He's talking about Eugene, and it's just like, God, that makes all sorts of sense to me that that's where they were.

Doing that Well, whatever experiments they were conducting could have fucking made fucking vampires out of these people.

Well, and also phonetically eugenics you can't spell you eugenics. Yeah, eugene is literally the.

First several genics.

It's the first several letters of that word. I don't know if that's why it's named that. Oh my god, I didn't come up with that, by the way.

Well, you know, uh, you know when I figured out vampires.

Morial when you watch Twilight.

No, when I started researching Nicholas Cage, I think he's a vampire.

Well, there's that movie where's running down the street going.

He played a vampire recently?

Well he supposed Yeah, it was the remake Rinfield. Yeah, so Nicholas Cage also might be a time traveler.

But if he's a vampire, he'd be immortal.

That would explain why have you seen his.

Civil War era portrait?

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. But if he's a vampire, you know, yeah.

He could have just turned. I mean, Nicholas Cages even when he was young, he looked old. Yeah, he's always had that Nicholas Cage hairline. Uh huh, he's a Coppola. Yes, if there's a bank fucking family of vampire.

Well, I found his tombstone and it's in New Orleans and it's a big white pyramid cage. No, it had some weird Latin shit on it.

But it's a picture of him. Like, what do you mean you found his tomb?

He bought the tombstone ahead of time.

Oh, it's yeah, and he bought it like in the seventeen hundreds.

And it's white marble and it has weird Latin shit on it. It's the most culty looking thing I've ever seen. Do you wanna do you want to see it?

Let's keep going that you can show me after.

Yeah. Well, anyways, kind of getting back to the weirdness with Ted. Many people at the time were convinced that an offshoot of the Charles Manson family had moved to the Seattle area and had begun a new reign of terror led by fucking Ted quote unquote, because they hadn't identified Ted Bundy yet, and so people were coming to their own conclusions. There's cattle mutilations and all this other

Well, and what if Ted.

Was himself a member of the family whoever Ted is because he did come down to the Bay area m hm, and that was in the seventies.

But I don't do you know that the year he was born Ted? Uh huh. I'm assuming it would have been late forties, forty six, forty six, so he easily would have been old enough to be wrapped up in all that stuff.

Oh my gosh. He died at forty two.

So that's another that's also twenty four in reverse.

Yeah, so there you go.

I'm sold it's all about twenty four.

Well, so, some on the police force were convinced that there was cult involvement in the murders, and a hefty file on occult activities in the area had been assembled, referred to as File one zero zero four. But of course the occult theories were ridiculed by county police and prosecutors. But they did the same thing with the Manson murders. So Ted eventually moved to Utah to attend law school at the University of Utah, where he worked as a

Is going down, Well, whether I mean that right there. He would have had to have.

Nabbed her, stored her somewhere, went on this hunting trip, which oftentimes.

Those can last up to a week.

Mm hmm.

So he gets back and then just finishes her off or yet has nothing to do with them. But like you're saying, it's not his.

M at all.

No, And because if you put her somewhere for a week while you were on the hunting trip, she would have cried, She would have scratched Claude escape. He could have had her somewhere secure and like drug Yeah, or so she's not crying.

I mean he had gone for several days, he would have had to given her access to water. But yeah, we're entertaining that. Yeah, it doesn't mean it wasn't him, but it doesn't sound likely either.

No, and she happens to be the daughter of the chief of police.

Yeah, I don't know.

It could have been a targeted type of thing too, like a like a hit or a message to that guy, or he's involved.

In some shit.

Mm hmm.

So Melissa's disappearance was followed by that of Laura Amy, who vanished on Halloween night nineteen seventy four. Amy was also reportedly held for up to a week before her murder, and yet the hair on her strangled and bludgeoned corpse had been freshly shampooed just before or just after her death. Forensic tests revealed that she had been drunk at the

Yeah, reminiscent of Zodiac.

Yeah. There were indications that Laura had some awareness that her life was in danger. Her mother reported that she had said to her a few weeks before her death, out of the blue, quote, mother, at my funeral, I don't want to be buried in addressed end quote? Is this just a spiritual thing? Like she knew she was

Yeah, the mo o and styles the same, but the victims are women.

Yeah, And what I was getting at is it a spiritual thing or did she know something? Is Laura Amy told her mom that she was going to die, like right before she died.

Well, she was talking about her funeral. Did she know it was going to be that week?

Well, we don't know what the fuck she was into.

People say weird shit like that, but it is. It is strange that she said it at that time.

Do you think it's a coincidence.

I don't know, Probably not.

So we're going to get a little bit more into what Colby was talking about earlier with this last couple with these last couple points here. So, the night of November eighth, nineteen seventy four was supposedly a very busy night for Ted Bundy. He first allegedly attempt to abduct a girl by the name of Carol Deranch from a

And everybody knows that Volkswagens don't go one hundred miles per hour.

No way, no fucking way. But I mean, it's like you were saying, there's no way, and it gets the same way in Florida, obviously, But this is the first time, Yeah, in the timelines not adding up, and.

I don't remember the exact logistics of it, but the one in Florida, one of the murders does seem like Ted's emo, if there even is one. But what we're told is.

And then the other one that they also pinned on him. It was a scenario a lot like this.

It was like two different counties and the victim, victim b she was like a little girl, I think like Kimberly. She was like twelve twelve, And that wasn't something that he had done. And I'm not saying that he wasn't capable of all sorts of evil, but the fact that he that was pinned on him with this other one, it's a lot like the one you just talked about, and.

It didn't match any of the victims.

Well, it's just what you see throughout his story, inconsistencies, oles, weird people showing up in multiple places throughout, like an anthropologist identifying bodies. Nobody knows that's.

What anthropologists do, right, And so it's not like.

They were digging up lost societies, right, Like, why was this guy identify helping identify bodies?

It doesn't make sense. And there was an interview. I don't know if you did you watch the Ted Bundy tapes.

I didn't.

I mean I probably.

Already that I may have tried them out, but a lot of that Netflix stuff I just got fed up with.

It just was so.

Uh, mainstream there not even that it was just redundant. You could have had like ten episodes b.

One like they draw it out.

Yeah, and it's just like a lot of stuff already knew. But anyway you were gonna Well, there was.

An interview that was in the tapes where they asked him, have you ever done anything to hurt anybody? And the way that he answers the question is like, well, it's not me kind of, but I mean he says like, well, I've never directly done anything to hurt anybody, is how he said it. That's how he said it. Ever, I've never directly done anything.

So he's saying he's a patsy. Yeah, I don't know.

He also supposedly wanted to confess to a lot of it and helped find other bodies.

Even though he never did.

Yeah, it was like we said earlier, he was, yeah, putting off that old fucking date with death.

M Well, these times that we're talking about were recorded in police logs, so it was well known to the members of the Ted squad that it wouldn't have even been fucking possible for Bundy to essentially be in two places at once. But even still, they pretended as though both crimes were the work of the elusive Ted, even after a drama teacher at the second crime scene positively identified a drug dealer who was also the initial suspect

Life.

Well, yes, I should just ask how are you doing out here?

So short question deserving a long answer. I'm doing well. I feel good.

Yeah, working hard in my case, you need a lot more sun and a lot more fresh air.

But other than that, I'm doing okay.

Do you get fresh air?

Sam, do you get out well?

I get to go to the library.

It's a fifty yard walk from here, across this, across the parking.

Lot to the library. That's my fresh air.

Ted, when you left salt Let, when you were extra douted, you wish you to stay in and saying you feel it everything will turn on or right that you are in this.

Do you still feel that?

Mm mm yeah, yeah, more than ever.

Uh.

There's always one thing that amazed me. As you know, I covered your trial and I was there every day when you uh, when the judge fan you guilty mm of uh second degree kidnapping, you never showed any emotion. Do you know for somebody who believes he is so innocent, why was there no emotion?

My attorney, John I co John O'Connell is so a like and I've always mused over just how I should behave what's the right way for Ted money to behave and make sure that people get the right impression.

And I just behaved the way I feel it is right. Okay, let me take.

The day of March first first, nineteen seventy six, the day that the judge rendered this verdict in my case.

First, I didn't show any emotion because.

You know what am I supposed to do? Am I gonna jump up on the table. Am I gonna scream?

That's what I felt like doing. I heard my mother cry. Uh. It's an emotional time. I don't even like to think of that day.

But I wasn't gonna give these people who went out and built a case around the non existent eyewitness other than any uh an eyewitness snification was built.

By the police.

I wasn't gonna give them satisfactions seeing me break down and uh sure, I'm man, I'm showing emotion right now because inside that man. Uh, But I've kept it together because there's no point in destroying myself. I had got to keep myself together. I have got to stay calm. I've got to keep my presence of mind because as long as.

I do that, I'm gonna beat these people. And that's the way I feel.

Uh.

I showed no emotion.

I felt emotion, Believe me. Now the irony comes here.

When Carol Deroche, the kidnapping victim from Utah, came to testify in this preliminary hearing here, I was beside myself with rage. Uh, she is turning into a professional witnesses. As far as I'm concerned, she has a prosecution witness.

And when I heard her go through that routine.

That I had heard three times before, I had restrained myself every time.

I couldn't do it this time. And I told my atturney.

I says, I'm gonna get up, and I cut up, and I pointed to Judge and I pointed at her and I said, she's lying. She's lied three times before and she's lying now. And I'd helped it. And he pulled me down and he says, listening.

He says, you can't do that, and I says, okay, But I had to do it for once. For once, they had to do it.

And do you know something, people say Ted Bundy didn't show any emotion. There must be something in that. I showed emotion, you know what people said. See, you really can't get violent and angry. Uh, there's no wi right way for me to act. I act and I don't care what people think about how I'd act. I act according to the way I think is right and best

Not with this interview were underd interviews t.

Do you believe.

A person from the media m other people here?

Do you believe that we created you?

That that that it's that it's our fault that we created this image of of the mass murder?

Is that?

Is that what you're saying to us?

Well, I think in the course of doing your job, you did not at a not in a malign way, not not not in a a personal vendetta against me. But in the course of of of publishing the uh material UH and broadcasts and material coming out of the Saltly County Sheriff's Office or the Salty County Prosecutor's office,

Does John Connell called the Bundy Monster.

That's what he called it, Leota, So I suggested that to John we oughta get Mattel to make little dogs that walk, and say I knew the Bundy Monster.

Tell me I should this. You totally believe you're innocent. I'm not questioning that.

My question to you is how did it come to be the Ted Bundy MM could be involved in some of these things and has now been charged, conviction, convicted, wants is now facing first screen murder charges and as you know, I was being suspected in in other murders.

How did Ted Bundy come out? Where did it come from?

That's a very long story, and I could really can't be If I knew the answers to that question, I wouldn't be.

Sitting here right now. I'd be back in Salt Lake with a new trial. And one day I'll have those new Uh. One day I'll have those answers, and one day I'll have a new trial.

Okay, But I don't know why, Okay, I I can't begin to understand why. I know that there's a lot of uh, police ego on the line.

I know that a lot of men.

In the Detective's division in sol the County Sheriff's office, jobs are on the line.

I know that it's it's a long time ago.

It ceased to be an issue as whether or not I was innocent or guilty. The issue is now is can we pentant on it? Can we can we follow through and this A and maintain a.

Rep reputation as law enforcement officers.

And I'll tell you, as long as they attempt to keep their heads in the stand about me, there's gonna be people turning up in canyons, and they're gonna be people being shot in Salt Lake City because the police there aren't willing to accept what I think they know, and they know that I didn't do these things.

If you'll have to admit there's a there's a a hell of a lot of circumstantial evidence, at least circumstantial it seems to somebody who has read simply read the newspapers and articles.

No, I won't admit that. No, there's uh, I I don't call it ser.

It's not circumstantial as far as I'm concerned, and I I don't really know exactly what you're referring to and I don't really wanna discuss it, but uh it, I don't care what they's anybody says or or the uh the suspicions anyone harbors on the basis of that misinformation. And indeed that's what I call it, circumstantial uh information perhaps been misinformation.

As far as I'm concerned.

UH A lot of people trying to pin a lot of stuff on somebody because UH, you know it's convenient. But uh do you think you're gonna set up Well, I don't think there's any broad scheme, UH, but I think one begins to I would have to infer that, uh, based on some of the police activity I think following November of seventy five, you have to say that there is a general uh.

Design amongst police.

Officers and several jurisdictions to to do whatever they could. And I think a statement recently made by UH a sheriff in Utah, in Utah County, I believe he said they walked out in some of those meetings because it was just clear that they were just gonn They had one thing on their mind and they were gonna do anything to prove it.

And I think this trial would show exactly what they've done. Uh.

I'm not gonna sit here and say people have purjured themselves, but I think that will come out.

Are you angry?

Sure?

I get angry. Uh, you're very very un angry and indignant.

I don't like being locked up for something I didn't do, and I don't like my liberty taken away.

And I don't like being treated like an animal. And I don't like like people walking around and ugly me like I'm some sort of waydough because I'm not. Uh.

You know, I'm perfectly happy with the person I am and I've always been.

There's nothing not a I mean.

I uh yeah, I don't pay my telephone bills on time, and I don't write my mother uh as many letters as I should. There are all kinds of things I can improve about myself, but weird don't know this.

Uh.

I feel good about myself. I'm happy with myself.

It don't change you.

Stayed tech BONDI twenty four hours a day.

Well, gee, that name sounds funny. You know you hear ted Bundy in so many different contexts.

I stay me.

Okay, what happens if you're in prison five years and nothing like what has happened in the past happens again.

Who do you mean, I mean any any of the things that you have been accused.

Of any one by any window, by rumor, by the police departments or whatever. What if there are no killings or no kidnappings.

It's already happened, hasn't it. I've heard some reports.

I you know, I remember the the incidents between between five and eight which are similar to the ones which the the police have had the nerve to try to associate with me. It's gonna continue to happen in Salt Lake in Utah until those police start to wise up and stopt st stop counting their chickens before they had. I think it's a terribly dangerous mentality to try to pin something on somebody who who they might. They believe

What do you conjure up about the man that they're after or the real man who did.

These things man or man person's persons.

I don't know, I really have. I can't even begin to understand the mentality.

You are not guilty.

I'm not guilty.

Does that include the time I stole a comic book when I was five years old? I am not guilty of the terriages which have been filed against me and the allegations and the allegations of the room or I don't know all of what you're speaking about, like a it's too broad and I can't get into it in any detail. Uh, but I'm satisfied with with my blanket statement.

That I'm innocent.

Uh.

No man is truly innocent.

Uh.

I mean we all just transgressed in somewhere in our lives.

And as I say, I, I've been uh impolite, and there are things I regret having done in my life.

But then nothing like the the things I think that you're referring to. You ever physically harmed.

Anyone, ever physically harmed anyone, No no, you know, uh.

Again, not in the context. I think that you're you're speaking.

Of being as strange.

When you're a strange, faces look ugly.

When you're a.

Lone woman seeing with kid. When you're unworded, streets are run even when you're down. When you're a strange, faces got out of the rain. When you're strange, no one remembers the name when you're strange. When you're strange, When you're strain, eat well a strain. When you're a stranger, faces not done. Let when you're alone when the same week, when you're unwonted, streets are.

Round eva when you're down.

Hello, and welcome Cosmic Peach podcast, where we go cosmic all over your feet.

He was also asked where Rob Peaste was, to which that's peaced. I fucking know it's peaced because I watched the documentary.

Also asked.

Who's that guy one of his victims, but they.

Didn't have a body yet.

No.

Yeah, oh, I thought you were saying I said the last name.

No, I just name came out of nowhere.

So let me.

Rephrase it for the listener.

What do you want to call it?

Like when he got baptized?

Yeah, it's a word I'm trying to find. It's an easy word. Told h, I'm tired.

But well, not coincidence.

It's not a coincidence.

It's like, oh my god, when she's been tapping at the same time synchronous.

Yes, parting or is that dexter it's texter.

I thought it was you.

That's definitely a chicken furt.

Yeah, it smells like.

Mother chape. This breaths marijuana. Instance, she just sticks some popery and dexter fearble.

Oh my god, that's so disgusting to bring the stink out so happy with.

Text to your disgusting fuck, Can at least leave the room actually fucking burden?

Okay, I do think I'll want it puffed, though, let me take some pressure. I'm scared because that's the thickest part of it.

This actually, the resonating stuff gets you way harder because it's a concentrated brand. Are you okay, baby, enough to bob your eyes? Oh? Anyway, I'm not saying that's when I shut.

The help me down.

M cool mm hmm, se mm hmm.

Zero last time, Hello, and welcome back to the show.