#650- CultXCosmic: Blood Ties pt.1

Oh, be the.

Trigger.

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Hello, and welcome back to the show. This is the Brain and new mini series Blood Ties, And as I kind of gave like a hint about in the recap show, this series is going to be more about serial killers and Charles Manson and some of the bigger serial killers that I didn't mention in the previous series, the Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, Zodiac. We're going to be taking a little bit closer look at them. So, as we always do,

Thanks for asking me?

Are you?

I'm good and yeah, I'm just really excited to get into this one. It's something that Colby and I had talked about before. We both read Program to Kill and we talk about it all the time, but it's better to dig into it a little bit for the series, just because I think it's something that is obvious but not a lot of people talk about. And there is a lot of documentaries and a lot of movies that convince people it's one way, but it's actually not that

Well, right off the bat of forgetting that, I think that David Fincher's pretty well known to take movies that are semi true and give the mainstream version of them, like Social.

Network, Because in that movie, like I said, I like it, I think it's a good movie. But I think if you didn't know anything about Zodiac and then you watched that, you would think like, oh, well that's probably Yeah.

I mean, Zodiac, out of all the ones we're going to be talking about that you just listed, is the one I probably know the least about. But I always kind of had my own opinion on what that whole thing was. Yeah, I think that movie's definitely trying to rap a nice little bow on it.

Yeah, well, do you think that it was one guy?

No?

Okay, well, that's good. Then we can at least agree on that before we really get into it. But so I'm gonna read us a quote and it's Otis Tool and Henry Lee Lucas, and it was a conversation they were having. I got this from Henry Lee Lucas's book, and right before we started recording, I watched the the trailer for The Confession Killer on Netflix, and again I feel like they do a great job like not telling the truth about shit.

Look at Henry.

He's pleasant, he's non threatening, and actually a killing machine.

A killing machine. None of the film Serial Murderers approaches the record of Henry Lee Lucas.

Henry Lee Lucas has killed one hundred women at least three hundred and sixty people.

Lucas was a drifter who murdered at random during an eight year spree. Either they found the world's worst serial killer or that was the biggest hoasts in American criminal justice history. I would give him a pencil. He would sit there and drop pictures and describe what they were wearing, how they were killers, shootings, strangulations, knife ands.

I've killed them in every way. There is no Lucas was confessing to the unsolved murder.

But before him, I started getting calls from law enforcement all over, people say why, why are you doing it? It was making him feel as though he was contributing. They didn't treat him as a killer, but as a friend.

Oh, you got to handcuff. Henry never lived so good. Every day, Roddy move, strawberry milkshake. It was like he was a movie star.

From that point, it went to hell in a hand basket quick.

What I'd been believing for all these years was Henry did it. There is not one shred of evidence to show that Lucas killed my mother.

The police work was less than competent. There's a lot of emotions with that.

One hundred and ninety seven cases were closed that should still be open.

We were up against very powerful people.

I don't know. If someone has something to hip, nobody else gonna solve and macept me. He was playing them like a Voley and.

The lied, lied, lied. If Lucas didn't kill all those people.

Who did, it was a piece of shit documentary that was like half accurate, well.

If I remember correctly, because I watched about half of it before I got sick of it. They kind of do talk about the fact that Henry Le Lucas took credit for.

A lot of shit he didn't do right, But they made it to where like he was just a fucking retard, right, and that's why he did it. Like they could just be like, oh, we'll get you chicken nugget meal if you confess to this one.

Well, I was kind of surprised that they even went that far admitting that he wasn't the prolific serial killer that we all thought he was.

Yeah, I mean, I say it all the time. The Netflix documentaries are like the worst things to watch if you're trying to learn some shit about this stuff. But the quote is otis tool. He said, I've been meaning to ask you that time when I cooked some of these people, why'd I do that? Henry Lee Lucas. I think it was just the hands doing it. I know a lot of things we've done in human sight are impossible to believe. Otis tool. When we took him out and cut him up. Remember one time I said, I

I don't know. You told me this was from his book, Henry Lucas's book, which I didn't even know existed. And I do think that while there might be some truth to this, he also was probably playing into the legend built around.

Him, like he was okay with people thinking he was a prolific monster because it made him someone.

Well, he definitely seemed to bask in the limelight.

Yeah for sure, for a milkshake and cigarettes.

But he wasn't afraid of looking like, yeah, the devil to mainstream societies.

What do you think about otis tool? Though he liked ribs and he was a cannibal.

And well, I know the Otis tool. Like if you read Program to Kill, he wasn't just a country bump fuck kind of guy.

And his parents and his mom dressed him like a girl.

And yeah, the whole nine, the yeah formula.

So they obviously came up a lot in my Program to Kill series. But I'm honestly, I feel like I'm beating a dead horse sometimes when I talk about the two of them, they're a prime example of what we're talking about. But I do think there is a ritualistic component to some of the stuff that they get up to. Like they're saying like it's the force of the devil. Do you think, I mean, what do you think about that? Because I think that there's an element of truth to that.

If the devil's the CIA.

Do you think that they were like programmed and that's it, there was no ritualistic aspect to it.

Well, I think there's ritual aspects to the programming.

Yeah, well, I mean I guess that opens us up to start talking about Charles Manson then, since you brought up the CIA, because I have some notes here and we're going to just go through them and talk about

Well, yeah, because our government was formed by old school secret societies, and if they're you know, carrying into semi modern day the sixties, what they were into from the beginning, of course, there would be a lot of that.

Well, the reason that I put this in my notes is because despite having served most of his adult life in prison.

And most of his you know, like past the age of twelve, this is incarcerated.

So a lot of these programs they look for people where they go to mental institutions and they go to fucking prisons or or fucking Manson. Fucking was that Boystown at one point.

Yeah, I mean it's obvious that Manson had some hooks in him from the beginning, where he got the attention of, you know, the people that would grab a hold of him and turn him into what he was. It's debatable. I mean, there's a lot of good stuff and a lot of research and different books, but if this guy from the age of twelve was in and out of the system, it could have started.

As he was primed. Yeah, it was prime They.

Noticed that this guy was smart and charismatic and had a flare.

For the celebrity, and so spring of the following year, nineteen sixty eight, Manson loaded his new followers into a bus and took them on the road, settling into the Los Angeles area, where Charlie somehow established numerous prominent contacts in the entertainment industry, which a lot of people know about because we even on the recap show, Dennis Wilson was brought up. But he was best siesed with all of them. They make it out like he wasn't he

Well, there was a lot of people I see reading ahead that Neil Young. Neil Young really thought that Charlie had something. Yeah, and he admits it.

Yeah, I should. I should probably just read his quote then, because he told an interviewer that quote. A lot of pretty well known musicians around LA knew him, though they'd probably deny it now end quote.

Yeah. I at some point I was researching Frank Zappa and it man, if I remember right, it seemed like Frank was one of the ones who got a bad vibe from him, didn't want him around. But there was others, like you mentioned Dennis Wilson who held parties and also let Charlie and some of his girls stay there for like weeks weeks.

Like almost like move in with him.

Kind of, Yeah, they did take over, but at one point Dennis physically removed them from his house. He got sick of it. But at what point?

And like he was like footing the bill for like all of their fucking escapades and shit too, because they were like just they would just wander around the canyon kind of. You know.

Something I wanted to say when you were talking about Manson loading up his followers into a bus. This is a formula you see again with Ken Kesey and the Mary Pranksters, where you have a likely CIA connected guy loading up some freaks and then going on whatever mission was assigned to them.

Mm hm. And Neil Young, by the way, knew Charlie and his girls really well and actually tried to get the head of Warner Brothers to sign the aspiring singer songwriter. And it wasn't he. I highlighted his name in my notes because you know better than I do. But wasn't Neil Young one of the vaccine pusher. Fucking yeah he got.

I didn't do a beef with Spotify over them platforming Joe Rogan and then removed like the forty nine percent of his catalog that he owns. But he since came crawling back. But yeah, he was definitely.

Because people were just gonna leave Spotify over that. Well, I mean, because he's just like the end all be all.

Neil Young has always thought pretty highly of himself, and he probably did think he had more sway than he actually did, and he found out the hard way.

But he was one of those vaccine pusher, like you get the turn, Yeah, basically so. And he was eating Charlie's.

Ass apparently probably tasted like chicken.

Cat chicken, all right, So just so happens this same year, on December twentieth, nineteen sixty eight, year the Winter Solstice, the first of the Zodiac murders rocked the San Francisco area. A man was shot once in the head at point blank range with a twenty two and his female companion was shot multiple times with the same weapon, and a detective working the case noted that the male victim had recently learned of a major drug deal that was about to go down, and he had been talking openly about

Well, I think you're both right, and what better way to like utilize somebody to the full capacity, like if you can sensationalize violence. And it's been said by many of us in the community that the modern day serial killer is the school shooter or just a mass shooter in general, because you can take these people, have them take out specific targets in certain instances, like one of the people that got killed in Buffalo, New York, that shooting that they tried to make a race thing. I

Shut up.

Just so weird that he happened to be a victim in this random mass shooting.

But yeah, oh my god, serial.

Killers in the sixties and seventies, definitely, I think Jonathan's onto something there with like the sensationalized like mass terror and with you know what we think of today with mass shootings.

Yeah, but they're also taking out target of course. And I so, do you think that there's any correlation between all this Manson stuff happening and then December of that same year the first Zodiac murder?

What do you mean by that?

Leg So, could they be linked in some way because it was.

Like some of Manson's victims were actually.

Well, I guess it wasn't the same year. Oh no, it was, because it was spring of nineteen sixty eight. Manson loaded his followers into bus and took him on the road. And then December of that same year, the

Well, not to mention that Manson frequented the Free Sex Clinic in Hayde Ashbury, where he may have very well repped shoulders with Jolly West, who's like the forest Gump of the CIA.

Really.

Yeah, so this is if you get into to like some of the research that Tom O'Neill did for his book Chaos, which say what you want about that book, a lot of people are starting to call it out for certain elements of like keeping the lid on certain things. And this is news to me, and it kind of sucks because I thought that was one of the best Manson books ever written. But anyway, he all but links Manson and Jolly West with the Free Sex Clinic. So Manson was going up and down the entire coast.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying like la.

So in that time for him, he definitely would have possibly been.

And we really don't know who the Zodiac is, Like I think it's multiple assailants, but who used to say he wasn't one of them.

I was gonna say, I don't even know if there was a Zodiac. It was just a convenient way to like, like what Jonathan was talking about, scare the shit out of people. But also, yeah, they were.

With this guy with like the paper bag over his head in the fucking Apron and like, but I will actually get into that.

Like the letters and shit that were sent to the newspapers, which is covered extensively in the Fincher movie Zodiac.

But doesn't that make for a good movie though? The way that it went down.

It was the Yeah, so it was a movie. It was people turning into nightly news to see the next cipher or to try to figure out the cipher of the next or of the most recent letter that the zodiaccent.

Like people got obsessed with it.

It was like instead of fucking Sunday Morning Cross where it puzzles over coffee, it was like, let's see if we can I mean, and in the movie, it's like a person who is.

A big fat fot that worked out a fucking mechanic place.

Well, no, no, I'm saying there was someone who called in after watching the news and thought that he had broken the code.

Oh, a lot of people thought that they broke the code. They were like obsessing over it, actually.

And I mean that could be a whole part of it. You get the population the TV watchers fixated on.

This shit and trying to decipher codes and shit. Yeah, but I'm I do have in my notes. It would later be speculated that the Zodiac killings actually began in the Los Angeles area on the eve of Halloween nineteen sixty six, just a few months after the rampages of Richard Speck, which I spoke about in the last episode of program Ticket No. Part five. That's the one that was out of order that people were having a hard time finding. I talked about Richard spec and Charles Whitman.

Your thoughts on that, well, if you take a look at win serial killers started allegedly popping up, it was after a lot of men had come home from the Vietnam War had been enlisted in you know, missions such as the Phoenix program where they would teach these and I think that, you know, you could probably put Dahmer

But they were besties. Yeah, and he ran the fucking Franklin fucking cover up exactly.

So a lot of people came home from the war having just been set loose to you know, go savage on the villages to send a message to the viet Cong, and they were doing unspeakable acts and they were you know, put there by the United States military, and so a lot of these guys they had the on switch flipped and then they come home and you think they're going to be able to switch that shit off. Most of these people just needed a little shove into the right

One of those crazy fucks that came home from the Phoenix program and they did a little bit extra shit to them.

I don't even know if it was like used. I think they were used for the purpose in the war, but then when they came home, they couldn't stop. And so I think a lot of these Zodiac killings could have just been randomlydom people and they're trying to keep a lid on like what stofoo? That's one I mean, that's one theory.

Sure no. Yeah, So with that first victim, Scherry Joe Bates, the one that was nearly decapitated, the circumstances of her murder suggested that she knew her killer and had spent a portion of the evening with him before the attack. And just like the Zodiac murders, what was said to be a confession was received in the mail following her fucking murder. But no one connects Shrry Joe Bates to

He did it.

It was something similar with this one, But they don't link Sharry Joe Bates with the rest of the Zodiac murders. And they also said they said that Cherry obviously must have known her killer and Darlene the quote unquote first one. First Zodiac murder victim also knew her killer. So it's like you said, is it people that they know it? Just like fucking random fucking crazy ass dudes or or chicks, or is it someone else?

Dear editor, this is the murderer of the two teenagers last Christmas at Lake Herman and the girl on the fourth of July.

I want you to print this cipher on the front page of your paper.

He wants his code in the afternoon edition, May Smith.

Does you have like got two to finish?

The Zodiac killer has come to San Francisco.

Another letter, school children make nice targets.

He gave himself a name, Greek horse code, astrological signs. This guy's used them all.

I like killing people because man is the most dangerous animal of all.

Just one do that.

I like puzzles.

I do them a morning. Got any hard suspects? About ninety and l or come up to around five hundred. You've got four crime scenes, not a single usable print.

You can't think of this case in normal police terms.

He's breaking the pattern.

Then I said you were a cartoonist.

Oh yeah, what are you doing at a gun range. I just want to help. What are you some kind of boy scout? Eagle scout, actually first class. I've been thinking.

It was her evidence, Robert.

I mean, there's no evidence. You have him seen with the ciphers, the military boot prints, the bloody not circumstantial.

Why do you need to do this because nobody else will day you made a mistake.

Get it from the window, Paul, Are you okay?

No?

What'd you do it?

Put your face out there for him to see? Hello?

Who is this?

Zodiac? Was my job? It's not yours. He's still out there.

Dave.

Killing is his compulsion.

It drives him, It's in his blood.

She's what squirrels the Zodiac speaking.

I've begun.

I can give you a left of the service station tours go around helping people in the night.

I'm not the Zodiac, and if I was, I certainly wouldn't tell you.

Are you sure there's nobody else in the house.

Everywhere? So the beginning of the Zodiac movie starts with this Darling Farren and Michael Magoo How did I say it? Mijeau and they get in the car. It's an epic scene because she's way older than him. It almost looks like she's like maybe thirty and he's like fifteen, and she picks him up, and they're supposed to be going to this lover's lane and then the lights they see lights behind them in the car and the guy gets out. He shoots Mijau like eight times and then shoots Darlene

No surprise there, So you're saying it was a jolted X lover.

Well, she said she witnessed a murder by a man, but wouldn't say who the man was, and then she starts receiving packages from her ex husband from Mexico. So I'm starting to think, like, maybe this murder she witnessed, like her ex husband murdered someone and she.

Told her friend it was someone that had been.

Following her, and then yeah, he had been following her. And what's also interesting is that they make it like Darlene was romantically interested in Michael Migeaux, but like I said he was He was like a teenager and she was like in her thirties.

Maybe, but I.

Mean, wouldn't it make more sense though? Maybe she was in like distress or something and like instead of a lover's lane situation, like he left his lights on his TV on his front door wide open. I mean, was that normal in the sixties though, to just leave with all your fucking door open and everything, or like.

Well, potentially whoever the killer was could have known that those two were together went to the dude's.

House, Michael Majoe's house.

Looking for Michael Magoo and Darlene and then left the door open. I mean, who knows well.

Majoe later told investigators that he and Darlene were followed immediately upon leaving Darlene's house, but he changed his story several times. But Joe went into hiding and shortly after the shootings, police received a call from a man claiming credit for Darlene's murder, and the call was placed from a payphone just outside the sheriff's station. That was in the movie where he calls and it's like raining and he gets on the payphone and he's like, it's me.

Vaguely? It's been a while since I've seen.

The movie, but we should watch it tonight.

Is that your pick?

I don't want to use my one pick on that though. That should just be a dual pick that we decide on together.

You can't tell me what I pick on our duel pic. How do picks work?

How do duel picks work?

Then we had to pick it together. Yeah, and you just volunteered my movie.

I volunteered it.

Yeah, we were. If we were gonna watch it, we should have watched it before recording this.

But you remember enough about it though, right? It was a long motherfucker too.

Yeah, I owned the movie and I love it.

I love it too. I think it's really good. But you know, they they kind of mentioned in the movie that my Joe kept changing his story. But why would he have a reason to change his story unless he was hiding something, the truth about something.

Well, he clearly was in fear for his life, whether.

It was Darlene's crazy ex or.

The Zodiac Killer. However you want to look at it, there would be a lot of reasons to walk back certain things in your testimony.

Well, if we're going with or you're full of shit, he got shot like twelve times, right, But I'm saying, like, if we're going with multiple assailants for the Zodiac and not just one guy, I think this was an another one that just got grouped in there, like Sherry Joe, Like they don't say the Zodiac killed her, but like that was just a random one that they let slide. So I think this Darlene fair and One could just be a random shooting because he kept changing his moo.

Well, who's sending the letter? If we don't know, then that's the main thing. Like if there if some of our speculation is accurate and there isn't just one one killer known as the Zodiac, then yeah, this could have been a syop. And like we said previously, the people that do the syops definitely have occult rituals guiding them.

Mm hmm, so they love to put that shit in there.

Or if it was just one guy doing all this, yeah, he could have been a cult ritualist as well.

The series of letters were laced with codes that suggested that the writer had a background in naval intelligence, bringing the Office of Naval Intelligence onto the case. Other agencies that investigated the Zodiac killings included the FBI, the US Postal Service, the California Department of Justice, and four local police agencies.

You know you've done fucked up when you get investigated by the US Postals. Don't fire around.

They carry guns, you know.

Oh yeah, they'll shoot your The co host on my show, Jeremiah, he's talked extensively about.

The Postal Service. They'll shoot, they will decapitate.

There was one That's why they call it going postal?

Was it that like a post office person that like, wait, crazy just shot a bunch of people though, Yeah.

And one bad apple made a whole fucking h what do you call it?

Hmm? Cliche or yeah, catchphrase? But so on August fourth, nineteen sixty nine, The killer supplied his moniker in a letter that began this is the Zodiac speaking. Just days later, on the nights of August eighth and ninth, the Manson family committed two of the most notorious multiple murders in the nation's history, the Tate Lobyanca slings. The Manson killings were part of a weekend orgy of violence in Los Angeles that saw the city record twenty nine known homicides in just four days.

That's like a normal weekend in fucking Chicago.

Spin serious, But you see, like it's odd that they're running kind of parallel, the Zodiac killings and the Manson killings, and they started in the same year, they're around the same area. They all could be random, as I was saying before, like the one chicks X and the other chick whatever, But it just seems in August eighth and August ninth, and Zodiac wants his letter out August first,

Well, I've obsessed over the Charles Manson killings for years, and just my overall scoping opinion on a lot of this stuff is pretty recent. And I will preface this by saying that I'm not human vibrations where I think every single thing that you ever hear about on the news is fake and staged. But I do think there's a lot to that when it comes to certain things. Within the last couple of years, I've been convinced that

That, and I thought about it.

After about two minutes of talking to the guy that I was interviewing who laid that theory out for me, it all just kind of made a lot of sense, especially with some of the stuff he said and then I kind of took that line of thought as well as the Laurel Canyon formula, where you have an intelligence assets from the United States military involved and it's a parent. It's a lot like I'm not saying, a parent, like

Oh he's a Vietnam vet.

And an intelligence asset. So a lot of the stuff that happened that night, it just seems like a spectacle like thrown out there for us.

Do you think Sharon Tate is dead?

I don't think either way. Of course she existed, but either way, she was either set up to be murdered in that ritualistic fashion. I mean, anybody who's looked into the Manson killings at all knows that that house in particular was targeted. But Manson himself knew that Terry Melcher didn't live there anymore, but he still said to do it. And whether Manson gave order or not, if they even really happened, I think it could be a thing that

Exploding, oh right, all.

Sorts of stuff where you see a lot of these people are still alive and so.

But do you think Sharantate is still alive?

If I had to guess, I would say I wouldn't be surprised either way. It to me does look like a staged event.

What was my argument when you told me that the first time and I freaked out.

I think you were a little too married to your research to look at it from a new angle. I don't know exactly what your argument was, but it was.

Really it was lame.

It was weird. No, it wasn't lame. I mean, this is a lot for anybody to hear.

Who because I think, like the West Memphis three, I fought you harder on than the Sharantate. I think I gave in on the Sharon Tate before the West Memphis three because I do think that those little boys are dead.

Well, if you watch the Paradise Lost trilogy on HBO, that to me is a blueprint of a staged event. Come to fruition to like, jam it down our throats. Here's what happened. The Satanic Panic was a thing that was sensationalized, and then the reaction to the Satanic Panic, and then you have all these celebrities cozying up with fucking god, what's his name, Damien.

Eccles, and he they are close with him.

I mean there was like Eddie Vedder doing songs with him while he was still in prison, and Johnny Depp getting matching tattoos. Yeah, and I've heard him go on Duncan Trussel's podcast and all these guys want to suck his dick now, regardless of whether you think he was innocent or not, he take it a step further. It's like,

So but you do think it's theatrical though, Like what.

About whether it's they're dead or not, and whether the murders really happened. Yeah, you could take an event and then sensationalize it to get the most out of it that you can, or you could have just planned the motherfucker from the beginning.

So but what about the Lobbyanka murders?

See that one. I don't think that would have been famous at all if Sharon Tate and the and the crew there with like.

So, if you do think the Lobyanka's happened and it was part of this, well.

Like I said, the only reason we even know about the Labyanca slains is because the murders that happened.

So the Tates was to like usher in the terror of the Lobyankas.

No I just think that whether the Labyanka Slains were Mansoner or not, that Yeah, it's just like a footnote. It's like an asterisk on the on the Tate killings, because, like I said, if the Tate killing hadn't happened, we would never hear.

Well, you know, if you look at it for like a lot of people want to put this on Manson so bad because it like it's like once upon a time in Hollywood, Like it makes a great story and it's very it's like a very well written screenplay.

Well, and if you just take Charles Manson himself, you have a guy who's been in and out of the system. He's associated with multiple gangs. Yeah, he's he's constantly being released after being pulled over for and like with underage girls and fucking bust full of drugs. This guy could not stay out of the fucking like shit that was going on, even though there's no way he should have

Though? Because if you were to tell me that a someone like Sharon Tate was married to an occultist filmmaker like Roman Polanski and then you watch Rosemary's Baby and then you see what happens to her. I'd be more likely to think he had fucking something to do with it than Manson.

Well, if you've ever read Chaos, it talks about a fuck I think it was like a film reel that Roman Polansky had in his possession, and it was like his fucking occultist buddies running a train on Sharon Tates. Oh my god. The best thing about Chaos is he discredits Bugliosi and all his bullshit that he put into his book Helter Skelter. This is this guy that prosecuted Manson and he wanted like rock star fame, and this

All over the place. It's all over there.

So yeah, I just say, like, you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to these kind of things, because the spider web can go in so many directions on this. And so after all the research I've done into the Manson killings, it's like to even have like a concrete theory, it's just.

Kind of, you know, like you almost can't have one.

You can if you want to, and there are people that do, but man, the more I've read into it, the more or it just seems to me like there is a lot to this that we'll never know.

Yeah, and I'm pretty sure like that was one of our first arguments.

It was our first fighting except cure. We're fighting about serial killers, Charles Manson, satanic slayings of kids in the woods, when most people are fighting about who's going to take out the trash.

I was actually I was compelled by your argument, which is why I know, like when you hear something and you're like, oh damn, that makes a lot of sense.

It just and it's just it's just one theory, Like I said, I know.

But it makes a lot of sense.

And then you know, a lot of theories do make a lot of sense. Some of them don't make any sense, and they could be the real ones. You don't fucking know. Like you can't be married to any of this shit. You can do your best to stream together extensive research and look into everything. Anybody prominent who's like lived like Tom O'Neill twenty years writing one fucking book, or just a lot of podcasters.

Yeah, no, podcasters always have like we always have something to say, whether or not people. I think people should really do their own research into a lot of this stuff before they just like, especially if they're Netflix documentary HBO documentary watchers.

Yeah, and I think a lot of your listeners and especially listeners to these series that you're doing for the boys at the Coult, then you will inevitably be compelled to do your own research. If you've set through pediphocracy, Uncle Sam wants your kids programmed to kill And if you made it this far, I'm assuming you've also looked into it on your own. And if you haven't, we probably you probably should.

Yeah, you probably should if they've made it this far. Their troopers though we let you, yes, But actually I have a fun fact for you. Roman Polanski actually brought in to assist in his own investigation of the killings this fucking famous psychic, fucking guy named Peter Herkos. And Peter Herkos had earlier made a high profile appearance alongside of f Lee Bailey in the Boston strangler case.

So I actually, is that how Polanski knew who he was or really like Buds?

Well, that's what I'm why I think it's interesting is is this more theater shit? Because I think the Boston stranglers are also fucking Cia, right, So if this Herkos guy was involved in the Boston strangler case, and then Roman Polansky somehow knows him and gets him involved in the Tait case, then I feel, like I said earlier, and like what you were alluding to, that this is a great piece of fiction.

Well, and not to mention that even in the instance that Polanski wasn't involved in the theater behind it, he had a lot of fucking reason to make people think that he was very you know, just grief stricken and trying to solve this on his own. When in fact, he just lucked out that he wasn't there if this shit really happened.

Or did he have something to do with it, because a lot of people think he did well, his friends well.

And also you brought up like a lot of these are like set up hits with drug shit, and there is a lot of evidence that there was stuff going on at these parties that Tate's crew with like j. C. Bring and a couple other people that were there, Mama Cass and oh yeah, and the Folgers Heiress. Like a lot of these people were notorious junkies who were hanging out with devil worshipers and they like had this weird crossing.

And making movies and shit.

Yes, and there was like drug debts, they were unpaid and you know, then you have the FBI probably sitting right outside this if it really did happen, I mean, there's a lot of people who have talked about that. I think Sam's brought them up on his show. But so.

This circle of people that he was hanging out with also is just really it says a lot because at the time of the Manson murders, this Peter her Coast guy was involved in organizing a black Arts festival scheduled for Halloween Day nineteen sixty nine, and the events other organizers were Timothy Leary and Anton Levy, who were scheduled to host the festival before it was canceled.

So two other assets, that's what.

But they're they're all so and Polanski somehow knows this Peter Herkos guy who's a psychic medium who hosts black arts festivals with Antson Levey and fucking he gets called in to the Tate fucking like. This is why I think it's such a theatrical like fucking like, but it's all Manson, Like you know what I mean, It can't just be Manson.

Or was it at all?

Or was it at all?

I mean to me, Manson was used up and whether he had anything to do with what happened that night, It's like, we can throw this guy under the bus now. And he also during many prison interviews and letters with people and he was incarcerated the final time, he mentioned that like if you even knew as deep as this goes and I and he would always allude to it, but at the end he'd say he would never rat anybody out, but he.

Would say like like if you knew like I'm not the monster, like he would say stuff like that.

I mean he said a lot of stuff.

He said a lot of cracked out shit, Like.

I think a lot of his stuff was probably part of the show. But after you're fucking rotten in a cage for decades on end, you might start spitting a little truth and trying to like give a little bit of breadcrumbs to the people who really.

Want to look into it, Like weave in truths with lies and shit.

Well, I think that in the beginning the whole trial spectacle, it was like a script.

Yeah, the Manson family with their frick their fucking their swastikas and ship.

Yeah, I mean, did he even know where he was going at that point? Like he could have thought like, hey, maybe I play along with this play this staged performance, and then I get extracted at the end, and maybe he did, and they put in a fucking body double or some fucking like if you want to start getting into like that, there's a lot lot of these people like Diddy right now, his fucking mugshot is a different

I don't know, Well, they found a pretty decent lookalike for once upon a time in Hollywood. It's not like it's hard to fucking find a fucking white guy with crazy face.

And you could get anybody like short and easily to look like Charles.

That's what I'm saying. It's not like he's very distinguishable in any way. But so the month after the Tatelabyanca killings and just after the autumnal equinox, the Zodiac was apparently back to work as a man and woman were stabbed multiple times in a San Francisco area park. Is this curious timing? And again I put that in my notes because I feel like a lot of these murders

Yeah, for such a fucking badass killer, he kind of sucks at finishing the job.

Yeah, like you would. He's like the least badass of all serial killers. Like he's leaving fucking people alive.

Remember in Mickey and Mallory knock saga from Nashalbaring Killers, they always leave one person in line to tell the tell you.

Think that's what it is, though, I mean.

Because part of the mythology of it. At least you know.

What's crazy that you just said that, because I put it in my notes that despite the fact that it took nearly an hour for the ambulance to respond to a call, as this dude in this chick, we're fucking bleeding to death, and the man fucking survives in what has to be the only known case of a serial killer showing up for work dressed in a logo bearing costume.

It was a fat, tall white guy.

Well, he was wearing a fucking hood and a fucking apron with the zodiac symbol on it.

My ass.

And and so if this is the same person why did he shoot the first couple and then stabbed to death the second couple? He changes his mo and now he's acquired a costume, and they did find a military issue boot print that was connected to like the US naval bases on the West coast, and he made another call that was out, this was me. I did it after that one.

Well, you know, if you want to go out on a limb here with some of this psychology stuff that whether the intelligence agencies or whoever the fuck is putting this shit all together, if they know that there's a bunch of fucked up people in California, you start one killing and you're going to get a bunch of fucked up people from the Vietnam War. Maybe start doing copycat killings.

Right, But don't you think it's odd though that the first couple was shot and then the second couple was knifed and the dude always survives, and like, you've showed up in a costume, I mean second time.

It's a formula for sure, any but he changed up. No, but I'm saying, like just the whole thing with leaving a survivor. Oh yeah, and like it's a couple.

Yeah, that's part was the same. But then they threw all those random like the one guy was a taxi driver that got shot and then at some point he said he was going to blow up a bus.

Yeah, that one was always.

Weird, you know. It's like so it was actually on October eleventh, nineteen sixty nine, one day shy of the birthday of Alistair Crowley. The taxi driver was shot once in the head, but he apparently changed the kind of gun he used and at for San Francisco area crime scenes. The Zodiac quote unquote had used a different weapon at each crime scene, which is something that they do in the Uh, the training programs is they tell you to do a clean shot to the head. I wish you

Well, if you look at the the manuals for hits when you're talking about these intelligence.

Agencies, opportunities or weapons of opportunity and a clean shot.

To the head, and usually it's a twenty two or because you get the bounce around. Yeah and so yeah, a lot of these guys would be military people. So the fact that they might have had like a bunch of weapons to choose from could be a thing.

M h.

So I'm not singing that that to me exactly makes it seem like it's not the same person, just because you know who was this guy? Was he ex military, he's got military boots. Yeah, he could have like a fucking arsenal in his house.

But you know who I had suggested was the Zodiac killer? If it was one guy? Right?

Yes, who Michael?

Yeah, So I did put a few notes in here, and we'll see if I can convince you.

Oh, I've always thought that that guy was capable of anything.

Yeah, Well, so the taxi driver, the so called Zodiac Killer. He picked him up on Mason Street and then drove him to an address in the Presidio Heights area of the city where he shot him once in the head Cia style. And there were these kids and this is also in the movie that witnessed the murder of the taxi driver and they called the police with a description of the Zodiac Killer, but for unexplained reasons, the police

I mean it could. It also makes me think of that scene in The Cable Guy where Jim Carrey fucks up somebody. I think it's Owen Wilson actually that the girls on a date with he fucks them up in the bathroom, and then the sketch rendering is like a black guy.

I mean, that's that's what they do usually. Though he was black, I swear, Hey, you know what who else they did that with Salmonio. Yeah, he was fucking stabbed in an alley and they said that it was a black guy.

Everybody looks black that night.

No, they literally, Okay, I was gonna say, they literally blamed it on a black guy.

But it was like, honey, they're always blaming black guys.

They're always blaming black guys. But you know this to me, like the kids literally said to the police, there is a he looks like this, he just shot this taxi driver outside of our house. And the police dispatcher goes, there's a black male, Like, I mean, that's just a classic, like literally to throw them off so they wouldn't be

Here there's a nigram mouse on the.

You know that fucking hairstyle that Michael Achino had with the fucking he did that to like look like Mickey Mouse.

Well, I know that Sean McCann says that, and I feel like I've seen it somewhere else, but it might have been him that I heard it from. Yeah, but yeah, I have heard that. Sean McKennon says that, But the fucking pointed eyebrows and shit too.

That to me looks like the Devil.

But I mean, it's very cartoonish. But so.

It was two days after the taxi driver that a new letter from the Zodiac claimed credit for the killing and threatened a attack on a school bus by blowing it.

Up, which just doesn't fit.

It doesn't fit it at all. No, and that's why there are theories that Ted Kazinski was the Zodiac killer.

I've heard that too.

I don't think that fits at all.

No, he's Terrence McKenna.

Now some people might remember this from the movie, but I think that it's really interesting because October twenty second, nineteen sixty nine, somebody identifying himself as the Zodiac called and requested to speak to either F. E. F Lee Bailey or San Francisco attorney Melvin Belli, And in a fucking theatrical turn of events, the man calling himself Sam ended up having a live chat on the air the ci A linked BELLI. Eight years later we would have

Well, if you look into Marie what was his last name, Terry, his his work and it is one of the best documentaries.

I've seen on the Ultimate Evil, Well.

It wasn't even called That's that's the name of his book. It was like, I don't know, I remember what they've they changed the name for the Netflix series, But that is actually one of the things that made David McGowan want to write Program to Kill It was Mary Terry's work. So you get him going out on a limb really, but he did have some evidence to back it up that Sam through the processed church Let's connected to the

I mean, it just to me proves again that this was all theater, even having this so called Zodiac guy and like, you remember the other night when you played something and I was like, is that the Art Bell Show because it was so sensationalized a guy calling in about.

The Yeah, it was the closing track on Tool.

Okay, yeah, And I was like, oh, is that from the Art Bell Show? Because that was so popular and

Your thoughts, well, I just it's funny that these other murder charges were unrelated when they're all pretty fucking unrelated.

But like they get away with certain things, like these two scientologists are found stabbed fifty fucking times a piece.

I mean, there is a risk to join the Church of Scientology.

That's a good one.

I mean think about that though, Like a lot of the stuff that goes on in Hollywood is so intricately linked with the Church of Scientology, and a lot of people do know that but it goes way back, and I mean if no one out there, if you're if you are interested in the scientology stuff. The movie The Master that Paul Thomas Anderson made where Philip Seymour Hoffman plays the like l Ron Hubbard esque character.

Mm hmm.

I mean it just it kind of just shows you, like the web that was weaved. And as Sam Tripley always says, like the Church of Scientology very well could have been like a naval intelligence operation. It's got many markings for that. Well.

I covered it a little bit on Program to Kill Part six when I did like the history of a lot of these things in like occult groups, and the basis of scientology is Alster Crowley.

Yeah, I mean Hubbard was running around with those guys Parsons. What's the Nazis' name that started NASA Werner.

Von Bron Warner von Bron.

So yeah, I mean the Church of Scientology. It's so weird because it's so secretive. Until South Park made their episodes, often I didn't see it.

Well, l is it good? Is it honest and truthful?

Well, it just repeats that Tom Cruise is trapped in.

A closet over and over, But so they did consider this this Manson disciple fucking Zodiac suspect. And so again we kind of see like the Manson killings in the Manson family, I mean, alongside Zodiac in certain regards.

Well yeah, and it's just like you pointed out earlier the dates m h. It's almost like you have a Psya up in La and Asia op in the Bay Area and they are in tandem.

And so with that, do you kind of think do you kind of see like like if Zodiac was multiple assailants, like one guy was the knife guy, one guy was like the gun guy, one guy was like the bomb guy. Does that sound stupid?

I mean not necessarily, Like if you.

Were going to kill someone, if they were like, hey we got a couple of people. We want you to go stab them up or like go kill them and you're like, oh, well I'll knife them.

Well, like we were talking about earlier, it's weapons of opportunity. So yeah, it's not always going to be the same.

Like one guy was real theatrical. He was like I'm gonna knife them and I'm gonna wear a costume.

Yeah yeah, yeah, he probably had his own theme song.

I wonder how that went. So there was this guy, his name was Stanley Baker, and he murdered this person. And when they arrested him, he said, I have a problem. I'm a cannibal. And he fucking pulled this fucking nod off human finger out of his fucking pocket, and he literally confessed his involvement in a number of other murders that he claimed he committed as a member of the process spawned for pie cult. Have you heard of it?

I think from mm.

Hmm, And I also mentioned it in the last episode of Program to Kill, and police were able to confirm his complicity in a particularly brutal mutilation murder in San Francisco thanks to his having left behind a bloody fingerprint, but somehow California courts still declined to prosecute Baker for the homicide, with the ridiculous claim that he had been denied a speedy trial, despite his confessed involvement in a number of murders, and despite the fact that the murder

By guards, all at the same time.

They were all in his ass.

Well, I mean, it's weird that it seems very Henry le Lucas, But.

That's probably why I put that in my notes, because it seems as though some people, especially when they end up being cannibals and shit like Henry Lee Lucas in Otice Tool, they get protected from on high. He didn't have a speedy trial, so he gets off the hook. He ripped a man's heart out.

A good reason, wasn't speedy enough or like.

So they find his bloody fingerprints. They're able to connect him to multiple burders and his own confession, and then he confesses and he rips a man's heart out, and he has a fucking person's not off finger in his pocket, and he gets fourteen years and fucking that's it. That's all she wrote. He says he's part.

Of Colts too, and then started his own.

And then started his own cult and somehow has weapons in jail.

I mean, if they found eleven, imagine how many of they didn't find.

Well, I'm just saying like, that's pretty fucked up, and they're usually connected when they're protected from on high like that, of course. But so in the late nineteen sixties and early nineteen seventies, not only did Stanley Baker, who's ripping people's hearts out and chewing their fucking fingers off, and Charlie Manson migrate away from San Francisco, many other disenchanted hippies and flower children did as well.

Yeah, so to me, you get northern California is like the mecca. It's like the birthplace of the serial killer movement. And how can that be coincidental? You have many many you have many military intelligence operations going on there, you know, including like the acid movement, and it's also where a lot of these fuckers came from, and Michael Lokino as well.

Mmmmm, that's where I mean, California should just fall off the fucking map at this point.

It's cozy, learn just swim.

Like I feel like you go there and you just die Laurel Canyon death.

Well, we're only fourteen miles above there.

You think if we go visit, we'll get taped Bobby on Good, No, we're not famous enough.

You'll probably be it.

We'll be one of those nameless.

Spaces like the Stanley Hotel.

Do you want to be the male Black Dahlia?

Only if I can survive to tell the tale.

Now with your fucking dick cut off and your fucking.

The medical industry is very it's the advancements are amazing.

They can put your body back together if it's like hacked in in many pieces.

I could just be like a torso and a wheelchair.

You'll have a colostomy back.

I always wanted one.

I'm not changing it. We'll have to get home nurse. Most of these motherfuckers ended up in Santa Cruz.

Let's where the last boys to place is. It didn't got the name of that vampire movie?

Yeah, Santa Cruz. Okay, well that makes sense.

It's the vampire.

And so a lot of them began to operate small portable pill factories in the remote parts of the forest, turning out LSD and amphetamines for the city market, free of police harassment.

Well, puck, yeah, it was keeping those guys in work.

M HM. Also, seemingly random, motiveless killings quickly began to plague Santa Cruz, and on October nineteenth, nineteen seventy, in a case closely mirroring the slaughter at the Tate House the year before, John Lindley Frasier allegedly acts alone killed all the occupants of a home in Santa Cruz, including

Yeah, And a lot of people kind of cross the stories there because he was I think sixteen when he went to Harvard, so he was like sixteen or seventeen when he got into the mk lter experiments. His didn't have anything to do with LSD. They actually just had him like right, out like humiliating fears.

He had, and then damn and then they.

Just like chastised him until he broke and we all know where that led.

Yeah, he looked like a crazy motherfucker there at the end too. He just died recently. He died this year, didn't he.

I think it was a couple of years, or like last year.

Maybe it was last year, but so curiously, just over a week after the Fraser killings, a Halloween card was received from the Zodiac, and more cards and letters followed,

Yeah.

Yeah, and fucking soon after Frasier's rampage, women began going missing from around the Santa Cruz area. As early as autumn of nineteen sixty eight, reports began surfacing of grizzly occult sacrifices being performed in the surrounding mountains, and by the summer of nineteen seventy two, it was clear that Santa Cruz had a fucking problem. Mutilated bodies began showing up in the hills. By the time nine teen seventy three, world around, the bodies were piling up at an alarming rate.

They were like the cocin Pepsi of serial murder.

Do you know much about these two?

Uh? In passing? Neither one of them might really dove headfirst into.

They're definitely, like you said, like Henry Lee and Otis, but like if they never teamed up, like they were very similar and honestly, they have a really high body count for a lot of people, you know when you say serial killer, Like, what are the names people think of? Ted Bundy, Jeff Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy, Like those are

I like to eat.

It.

Fucked the pieces, babe, Oh my god, how do you cannibalize them and then sexually violate them anyways, unless.

You like they're getting wined and dined, babe.

You're just as twisted it fucked up as I am.

More so so.

This asshole. Fucking Mullen was credited with dispatching thirteen victims in just four months from October thirteenth nineteen seventy two through February thirteenth, nineteen seventy three, Mullen admitted to having a strong interest in the occult, a fact made evident

Yeah, I would just say Charles Manson and the Zodiac. You get those four dudes in the middle. Yeah, I don't think anybody knows who those are. If they're just like you know, they're true crime hobbyists. Those names aren't gonna come up a lot. Stanley Baker, Edmund Kemper, Herbert Mullen, John Lindley.

Frasier, like you don't hear about them.

Yeah, they're definitely not as big as Manson and Zodiac.

But do you think this was the training wheels for what was going to become the tied Bundy's and the Jeffrey Dahmins.

And then the hotbed area being northern California of course, right would be kind of where I mean, you had a lot of these like satanic ritual abuse stuff happening with kids, and Michael Lochino also who he keep masking.

Was that happening that was happening around this same time too though, right? Yeah, so you have that and this.

Well, I mean I think like the lid getting blown off of all the sex abuse scandals with the military bases and preschools was much.

Later than this, but it's the same area.

I mean, if you look at Michael Achino's past himself, as a child. It's it was going on way before any of this, So yeah, I think it's safe to say that it was the breeding ground for it.

And also what was taking place in this in this era is something that you and I love to talk about, which is Laurel Canyon.

Yeah, you had in this area, the one everybody knew about for the longest time before McGowan's work would be just the the LSD music scene with all of the fucking tell tale c A connections and just the basic psyop. I mean, for fuck's sake, you had Courtney Love's dad back there.

Do you feel like it's a hard one. It's like, when I first found out about the Laurel Canyon connections, it was hard for me to believe that all of the people that I grew up loving so much could be like this could all.

Just be.

For me controlled I guess, yeah, it's hard. So it's like even harder to believe that they're running multiple programs at the same time, or it's actually easier to believe that they're running multiple programs at the same time. You got the Laurel Canyon, you got counterculture movement happening, you have all this pedophilia shit going down, and then you

Yeah, I mean this definitely took off in California, but you had like Tavistock with the Beatles and like the Tennessee music scene. A lot of this stuff was happening way before this. But it's almost like they just went fucking hogwild in California, like they were.

Just given it was the birthplace.

Yeah. Well, it was like an experiment on many levels and a multi.

Layer, like a five layer burrito of like CIA programs.

Yeah, but I think a lot of blowback happened from it too, because if you look at like, yeah, you mentioned earlier, none of this shit outside Santa Cruz was sensationalized now the Manson killings, where it's almost like America just had an overload with the Manson stuff and it wasn't They didn't either, They didn't feel the need to blow it up in the media like they did Manson

It's pretty fun.

Could it be blowback or was it part of the plan too, where it was just like, you know, that was our rough draft. We'll just throw this one away. I don't know.

Now to kind of give the listeners a little hint on what we're going to be talking about in our next episode together.

And a hint for me too, is that.

Another serial killer was said to be at work not far away. During the same timeframe, the bodies of at least fourteen young women and girls were found nude and with their belongings missing in northern California between December nineteen sixty nine and December nineteen seventy three. In the immediate vicinity of each of the bodies was found an elaborate witchcraft symbol of twigs and rocks that was mentioned in a very well researched book I read called The Deliberate

Yeah, that's not well known.

I mean, and like I said, I do think that the fucking Manson Stanley Baker, Edmund Kimper, Herbert Mullen, John Linley, Free Zodiac, like they were the training wheels for like these bigger projects that they were working on. Because then it all of a sudden we get fucking Ted Bundy. And then was it not long after that? Who was right after Ted Bundy? Maybe like dom No gay Sy and then Dahmer because Dahmer was like nineties, I.

Mean maybe as far back as the seventies and eighties. They've tried to link a lot of stuff to him.

Mm hmmm.

I mean he's another you know, military baby.

Yeah, I mean sure.

They've tried to say that there was stuff in Germany, I believe where he was stationed that went unsolved. Well, he was there, so he could have been getting his fucking fingers wet long before the Netflix shit talked.

About Did you watch any of those which ones like the Netflix on you did? We talk talked about it on on Ted Bundy and Jeff Hmer, the Ted Bundy tapes around.

I mean, I see a lot of that stuff. I'll start and I don't, I don't. I mean a lot of it's just regurgitated. And I mean back when I was a teenager, I read all the serial Killer books and the tapes. I mean, they're interesting, but it seems to me like Netflix really wants to draw this shit out, yeah, ties or whatever.

Yeah.

I did find the fictionalized version with Evan Peters to be.

Oh of Jeff Dahmer phenomenal. Oh yeah, now that was one that was like, I do think they snuck some woke shit.

Oh. They definitely tried to make it a race thing.

Yeah they did.

There was that element to it. But he didn't fucking discriminate.

Oh no, he had an Alaoesian kid, He had black guys, white guys.

He had.

They talked about the kid in the in the in the show, Yeah, what was his name, conorrac synthis.

In foam.

Say that five times then.

But you know, I think that they do kind of make celebrities out of these motherfuckers, not.

Just kind of God's out of them.

They are kind of like idols a little and so you know, can I ask you something from a man's perspective and like you just give me your honest answer. Okay, So I watched a documentary and actually, when I came to visit you the first time, I really wanted you to watch it with me. And maybe we'll get around to it one day. It's on Amazon Prime, but it's it's Ted Bundy's long term girlfriend giving her account of how she saw things unfolding.

And this is the one that like talked to him right before he got executed. Yeah.

Her name is Elizabeth Klepford and she actually turned him in and that was in the the zach Efron movies too. Yeah, Now, if he was doing this stuff and he was necrofiling and obviously he's got these fucking twigs and berry fucking witchcraft symbols and doing all this ship up in the mountains, some of the girls were decapitated, some of them like

An accomplice for all right now, But that's.

What I'm saying. It would make more sense that she never got a yeast infection, never got a UTI. I don't know he's she never said that though she never she was like, oh, I would have never known he was with the dead bodies. You would have had to, right, because like, if you're fucking a dead vagina.

Going to me from a man's perspective.

Like, no, I'm saying, like, do you think she would have gotten an infection from that? Or do you think I.

Mean, I'm not a doctor, but it seems risky.

And also if she never got a hint of anything right, either she's retarded or she was in on it.

Or she's acting. I mean, look at this, because it made me think of it earlier when you first said it, and I talked about blowback earlier. If anybody hasn't seen the first season of True Detective, Oh, it's so good. These iconography type killings where they leave certain.

Symbols twigs and berries.

The reason that would have been covered up and not talked about and sensationalized like the rest of the Bundy stuff is because it was a bunch of people doing it boo, And I mean McGowan even alludes to in Programmed to Kill that a lot of the murders that they pinned on Bundy couldn't have been him, And then there was murders that he may have been involved in

Well, he was political and he was Mormon, so he's got that going for him.

You know, if you want to party, those political Mormons are the ones to hang out with.

Yeah, the ones who also liked to necrophile fucking dead person. But I mean to summon all up, I think like that we're getting a good picture of like the beginning of this serial killer with.

This definitely, like you said, this was going on in a time where they didn't even have a name for it yet.

Yeah. But so if this is the first time you've heard Colby, congrats you've just leveled up in your conspiracy theory game. And with that being said, there is one very important vital piece of information I need you to learn, just as soon as humanly possible.

People a strange When you're.

A strange, faces look uglue when you're own lone women seeing what kid when your own.

Low streets around.

Even when you're down, when you're strange, when you strange, No, when we met as wrenn. When you stray, when you're strange, stray eat both stray when you're a stranger. Face is not done when you're all lone.

When let's see why good ready?

In Fun four three, you don't say two ruine.

Fly? I like it? Actually? Do you think this is good between the both of us? Like this distance?

I might just get closer to the talk.

Okay, all the girls in.

Your audience are pick Oh my god, hot cinnamon.

That is gonna start burning if you don't wipe a dog all right, I.

Sneak someday zoom. It's gonna cancel all of us and released unedited.

Transcripts of us.

It's saying disinformations.

Fucked, It's ready home, I gonna pass. This is the one that the Zodiac Murder opens. The Zodiac movie opens with, but I don't remember how to say this guy's last name, nomje. I knew because they made a joke about it in the Zodiac that nobody could pronounce his last name and they kept calling him mgu and it's Mijou, Michael Mjou.

I mean, how far are we going to get into the Manson murders in this.

Episode as far as you want?

Well, is there like an episode or coming up that's gonna be specifically.

About I'm going to really I'm gonna so I think we should talk about it like in this one or later.

Oh my god, why am I blanking? I am too?

Whereon bron Warner von Broun.

What's his name that wrote did Ilter my Pulter Skelter Bulgosi?

I think it's I always said Bulgosi.

I'm dead. I'm look it up, look up, Skelter'll start that sentence over?

Are you having some bays? I changed my my HST team.

It was Buglios Vincent. Your name was Orlando. I'm Brad