#40: Dan Hensley and Matt Starkey on the Steemit vs. Justin Sun Crypto War

episode. Welcome to the show.

war. If you ever heard of the steam and or steem it x Justin sun, that is the guy from Tron, crypto war and wanted to know what really went down. This episode is for you, as Matt and Dan were literally on the forefront of this war and were spearheading the troops and actually made it happen. I can't wait to hear the actual story, what happened from the inside. So instead of asking questions I'm going to give you fellas the

floor. And I will intervene when I believe it's appropriate just to sort of maybe give it a bit of details here or there. But with that being said, Before we get into the actual nitty gritty, and the full story would one of you please step up to the plate and just give us a quick little TLDR the sparknotes of what happened with this steem x Justin sun shitshow.

him and the community. Funds are actually stolen. Lots of things happen. And we ended up forking as a community, the open source software, the price rose, hire than steams. And then we saw that, you know, the real values with the community, not in how much money you have not in centralized entities trying to control web three. So that's the TLDR.

code and all that. And what happened was, there was sort of a sneaky launch, where they were able to mine a bunch of tokens before anyone else knew how, and you know, we call that a ninja mine or, you know, better known as a pre mine. So they had about 80% of the supply before others could fairly mine. And the community didn't like that it was always a stick in the mud.

But, you know, they were sort of benevolent in a way they weren't really attacking and then it was sort of an elephant room, the distribution started to get bigger and bigger and the community never really came together to do the fork. So it was always contentious that pre mine. And as times going on, you know, where the technology is being built out, the communities getting bigger and bigger. And, you know, the founder Ned Scott at the time, Dan Larimer had left the project, really for

that pre mine reason. He was totally against it in the way it was being used. Ned Scott was the founder. He promised to put it into a Dao, which is basically a decentralized autonomous organization. It's controlled by code no one else. The reason he did that first was because The code wasn't available yet, the technology wasn't available. So as sort of a promise to the community, and we were going to hold them to

it. And as we started to get closer to the agreement and hashing it out, he's he really went quiet. He didn't go to what we call steam Fest, which is the annual event. He didn't go to that when he went to all the others. And people notice you know what's going on, then we start hearing rumors. And then literally overnight, we hear that that pre mine and the steem at EAC company, which is a site, a front end built on top of the steam blockchain was then sold

to Tron, Justin sun. Didn't tell even the witnesses didn't tell any of the employees. It was a complete ghost move. No one knew it but Ned and him. So the market couldn't react, no one could really do anything. And then immediately you see the notion of Oh, you know, there's going to be a steam migration to Tron. All the steam apps are going to be moving to Tron. And of course, we were a steam app at the time as 3speak. And we're like, well, that's kind of funny. You're just telling us

what we're going to do. You haven't talked to any of us. And you're saying that all these plans are going to happen. And that's when really the negotiations, you know, really starting to talk to Justin Sun. And I'll let Matt jump in here because he was a really big part of the back and forth, the politics before, you know, the hard fork actually happened.

Certainly, universities are interested in listening to this type stuff, because the techniques that we used in this blockchain war, are going to be used in the future to wage wars between communities, almost for sure. I'm like almost sure about

it. But, you know, hopefully, as we move into the future, we go away from hot wars, you're going to have these immutable blockchain communities that are backed by their own Sustainable Economies that are going to go head to head to each other against each other, and they're going to try and take over each other. And this really is a perfect example of that happening and being defended against and then being the offense making their move and the defense making them move.

And it was just, it was an insane time. It was an insane experience. And we all learned a lot from it. I think there's a lot from it for everyone else to be learned from it. This whole thing's open source. It's happened out in the open. Everything, all the history is there on the blockchain so people can go see and check what Dan and I talk about in this court. And it's just, it's super, super interesting for me, and I'm really happy to be able to give my take on what

happened. From where Dan just left it off and yeah, basically, Justin Sun took a load of the tokens on the stodgy deal that Dan just described, then used his power to, along with some of the exchanges. The rumor is that they didn't know that they were being used, because of course, some of the tokens on the chain is stored on the exchanges, so they use their power with the custodial accounts. Combined with Justin suns, it was enough to take over the chain and

install his own witnesses. So Justin Sun had enough witnesses of his own running. We believe they're all running on one computer which is incredibly unstable for blockchain. And he basically voted himself into to control the majority of the chain, the majority consensus on

the chain. To kind of cut a long story short, we're 3speak Dan and I and a few of the guys that work on our team, we're trying to build immutable video content, so people can't at least it's very very difficult to be censored with video content now it's distributed stored in a distributed way. And of course with Justin sun censoring people using his dominatory stake that he held along with the exchanges on

steem. There's no way that Dan and I could tangibly run a free speech system while he was censoring every post that people were posting about to communicate with each other on how to defend steem against his takeover. And this is actually critical. It's one of the critical points. These chains when they get attacked and taken over. You have to have a communication method that is not censored because um, we you know, we did a lot of communication through discord a lot communication through slack.

But if you're in a situation where those two entities are working against you as well, which luckily we weren't in, you're screwed, right? Because you can't communicate on chain you can't communicate on, you can't trust the entities that you're communicating on outside the chain. And so this is one of the beauties of hive that has this communication system.

struggle to communicate. So you actually absolutely have to have this distributed communication system, which is one of the things that hive now is. It's very difficult to censor people in hive now.

chain. But we allowed as many people to get off and power down as possible. And then hive was born, and then the community. So if we didn't have hive, and we would have collapsed at first there would have been, in my opinion, we would have been scattered because you're talking to people worldwide, from all over the globe that don't have discord don't have telegram, they just you know, because hive is accessible and open source apps from your phone, anyone can get on, it's their own bank

account. So it was vital to have that life.

and we moved to the fork. And the fork had already been worked on incredibly fast by the guys behind the team that built the fork. And what happened is is the reason the fork stayed stable is because they took everyone's balances on hive. And whoever wasn't supporting Justin Sun and Justin sun himself, they maintained their balances on hive that they had on steem, and everyone that was supporting Justin sun, they zeroed their

balances. And they moved Justin Suns balance to this DAO with this decentralized hive fund that then can be accessed by the community and distributed based on proposals. So as a result, we basically took away all of Justin Sun's power on the high fork, so that we then had a stable guaranteed method of communication and we could continue our blockchain community and the whole community practically I'd say about 95% of the community at least moved across to hive from

Steam. Because no one wanted the tyranny you know, everyone wanted balance.

way. And the new chain goes on its own way and then they become two separate forks of the same previous road, let's say. And of course weith delegated proof of stake chains. If the whole community moves across to the other chain, to the new fork, it basically makes the old fork dead in the water. So you can have some old oligarchy running it. But if the community is not there, it's basically a dead chain, which is what steem has

become. And there's still a few people trying to run a make money on there and just sort of try to do what he can to keep it afloat but it's really, the great thing now is a year on hive has developed so many cool interesting open source things that it's almost like night and day compared to steem now, it's a different chain. There's no way that steem can come back very quickly and adapt a lot of things that hives done. And it's just genuine community. The community is the layer zero,

right? You've got the layer one which is the blockchain technology and the distributed system. But below that people forget, you have to have these insane, crazy communities that are going to work for six weeks straight, never sleep, you know, push, push, push until we get the fork and then everyone's gonna move across. You know, that's where the power of these chains are. That's how you win.

exchanges as well. So it was going up against an absolute behemoth. I would say that's an appropriate way to put it.

That was a big red flag. But even at the end of the day, we tried to salvage it, we had you know, private call face to face with Justin and, you know, just basically would say one thing while doing another. It was the art of war in every single way. And he played it pretty well to

his extent. But at the end of day, it was a battle he couldn't win because he's trying to capture what is an essence error, it's open source software, run voluntarily by a community, that community just been through a very long three year bear market, the price was really low. You know, people weren't really there for the money they were there because it was an interesting novel technology. And they wanted to toy around with it, with their own apps with their own little

hobby project. So it was just a community of hobbyists but what happens is he came and he just, in the way he came about it tried to force it just sort of pissed everyone off. And I was alluding to earlier, we never really had the reason as a community to fork. It was like, yeah, the threat is there, but it's sort of just idle and it's not you know, it's like if the fire is not on your ass, and you're not running sort of

thing. And it was this alien takeover like event where it was like everyone came together because in this community there's a lot of people don't like each other. You know, but when this came I was like, well, you're attacking our place. So we combined together and that was what gave everyone motivation to fork out that pre mine which was the thorn in the

side of everything. But of course, when we were playing Hodor we're keeping that wall up and we were doing everything we could once we started to power down because we didn't want to support that chain when to sell and you know, buy more hive support the hive ecosystem once he got a dominant grip over it, that's when this things started to get really crazy. At first it started with the whale freeze

account. The reason for it is they didn't really have good coders so if they could have stole the money right then, I believe they would have but they were just like okay, let's just freeze them from selling steam basically. All the whale accounts, stop them. People who have interacted with the chain in like three years. So it had nothing to do with like politics, it was just a pure money grab because they could. And then once they figured out how to steal the money, that's

when it got crazy. They did a secret hard fork, didn't show the code. It was closed. Ran that and then it was sort of like a heart racing moment because you know, it's like a million dollars with the crypto it's a lot of money. I bought this, you know, but I spent millions of dollars on my stake. So either way, it's a lot of money to me and you know, seeing that list and I was on the list I was like holy shit they're going to hard fork my balance

out in like two days. And there's really nothing I can do about it right because we powered down enough to where you had dominant control. I thought the last line of defense was the exchanges surely wouldn't accept this. Surely they'll just say no you can f off, either you do a different code or we're not gonna accept this fork. And you know when binance was the first to accept it. That was the big blow. That was when I was like,

Alright, it's over. Like there's no you know, binance has it that means yeah, one by one, they all accepted it and it was just theft. It was about 6 million USD at the time worth from all the other people, including myself. And then the craziest thing happened was on the day, he did it. He got white hacked by one of the, you know, whatever happened, we still to this day don't know what happened. But what happened was they hard forked all the.... that means they changed the

code. They took the token balances out of the wallet and put them in a new wallet that they just created. But as soon as they hit that wallet, somebody sent it to bitrix basically calling them a hacker, Justin Sun a hacker and saying stealing is bad, and to return the funds. And now there's this big legal war going on, which is a first in crypto where you know, the courts actually what's going to happen with these funds because bitrix is not an

intermediary. They're like oh well we have what's now worth a lot of money. Especially since the Bull Run happened and started to turn into over $10 million, and they're holding it and they're sort of like what do we do? So now the courts are going to decide it so yeah, it's just a very,

knows who he was. But he was someone on the inside of Justin's team that managed to work out what he was going to do, and had the keys to the account. It looks like it might even have been who knows, but it might have been the person that created the account who's planning to send the money to in the first place on his behalf? And it's just like, no, this isn't happening. Sent the steam to bittrex and Bitrex then is a neutral party kind of.

so interesting. As soon as people realized he was gonna start abusing his stake, the whole community, like Dan was saying, the whole community three years ago just came in and voted put all their stake into voting the old witnesses right? The original witnesses to try to keep the original chain in check. So it was like an immune system like auto kicking in and just everyone all of a sudden the voting power required to control the chain was to vote new witnesses into the chain to

therefore control the chain. It was much higher than it used to be much much higher. So he had to recalculate. He was like, he was clear like shit, I haven't got enough steam to actually do this. And it was a couple of days they were looking around. I think it was in conjunction with the old CEO of steem Inc. There's no way Justin could have worked all this out for himself so quickly. But they must have taken a look at the the custodial stake on binance and Wahby and a couple of other

exchanges. By the way you're talking about five 7 10 percent of all the suppliers is on these accounts, right? Because so many people using it for exchanging. So what they did is they powered that stuff up. Now, whether or not they are responsible for that is in question. When you fuck around with hive, you fuck around with a bunch of like, hardcore hackers, right? And I'm not just talking about computer code hackers, I'm just talking

about people. The people are in general, like, your typical, like hacky type, you know, don't fuck with us digitally kind of thing. So we all like, again, like a swarm of bees like came out and like we were tweeting like crazy finding out every piece of information we could. And what happened was, there was a certain point where the exchanges powered up, which they should never have done, which is like the equivalent of staking. You should never have staked custodial funds like they do on

Eos unfortunately. They have that and the you know, the exchanges have got quite an influence there because they've locked in their stake and they vote with it which on hive, we don't allow. But on steem, he did this and all of a sudden you're like holy shit if these exchanges now vote for his witnesses, his witnesses will get back in again because I'll have the backing not only of Justin Sun but of the exchanges

as well. And that frickin happened and his witness nodes went back in because we basically got rid of them by the whole kind of community coming together to vote for them for the right witnesses. And then because he got his tapes and plus the exchanges. So a couple of days go on and we're trying to try to figure out how the hell we can get around this Can we come to a deal or whatever it's going to be this people in the community don't want to do a deal with him. They're trying to

do the fork already. And so one of the guys I'm not gonna name his name, I'm sure we'll find out when the movie is made of this, but he got talking in a quiet friendly way to one of the very senior ladies on one of the exchanges. I don't know how he did it, but he managed to get her to talk. And I mean, there's recordings of this, you know, there's recordings of many things in this episode. And it's very damning to many, many people in the industry in fact.

happen. On hive, it's different because we're very decentralized, but on steem back in the day, when they control 30% of the supply, of course, they're the dominant people so they kind of kind of dictate what hard forks go through. And so they submitted this code, and Justin just said to them run this we're going to go through the hard fork you guys got to run this code. And because they already know him. my understanding is that they accepted the code, whether or not they checked it, I don't

know. But they ran the code. And what it did is the code automatically powered up IE state, their custodial supplies, which are held on behalf of hive-ians who are holding balances on exchanges. Powered that shit up and automatically voted for Justin sun sock puppet witnesses that then took over the chain. And so the plausible deniability by the exchanges is that they didn't know

necessarily what this was. They trusted Justin and Justin gave them some code that automatically made them vote against the best wishes of the people who were holding the steam inside the exchanges. And so as a result, they got the edge back again and managed to just about take over the witness the witness pool and then control the chain. Yeah, what's crazy about that is, so I had about 3 million

hive locked on binance. So when you stake on hive, the reason is different from other depot's systems is you have a three month commitment. So it's very hard for exchange lock users funds for three months. That's why it's not attractive to them at all. And the exchanges even said, Well, what is this we didn't know it's going to be three months. The trick was what he... This is the deal. Like I don't have proof. But this is what I believe from the evidence I have. The exchanges knew what

was up. They were going to hard fork the code and implement an instant power down for the exchanges and the exchanges agreed to it on that premise. They just say they blindly accepted code, okay, then you shouldn't be in business regardless. So that's even worse. But at least that's not illegal, right. So um, but of course, that didn't happen because the resistance happened and all of that, but I had 3 million steam locked on binance that was then powered up and used against me that I couldn't

withdraw. So imagine that I'm using this exchange and they locked my funds, I can't withdraw it for months. And they not only that, they use it to overpower the network, which then results in me getting my funds stolen, that I bought from binance it. And wait, by the way we keep we can go into how this wouldn't happen on hive, you know, all these things have been fixed on hive now. So it's much, much more secure chain, but we can go into that a bit later.

were calling our bluff. And they again, also were trying to work out whether we were calling their bluff, we're coming up with several different types of deals for the various parties trades. And then he said if we knew anybody because they just who had separated now on the chain, you had the kind of 85% of the community went across. They hated the idea of just having having control of the chain and they started working on the fork and more in support

of the high fork. Then you had some of the factions of the community that were pissed off at the original chain. And they wanted to negotiate with Justin wanted out. And they said they'd sell it at cost. I turned them to get power so that they could have influence over steem that they didn't have over steem before Justin came and they

weren't gonna move to hive. And then me and Dan were kind of in down because I was like, Well, I'm not gonna like these funds the middle of that where we were trying to you know, it's like herding cats You know, you're trying to find out who on the old community that's now leaving, which of those people want to try to help to see if we can get rid of Justin on steem

in some way. See if we can push them away or to see If we can get him to limit his control over the chain because of course having 30% in supply you're not

in decentralized chain. Now you've got some other pump and dumpers that we're negotiating with and just getting them all together to try to work out how we can come back to some type of normalcy on Steam with everyone all is you know is like a Western is like a Western shoot or Mexican shootout, you know, everyone's kind of looking at each other no one knew what was going to happen next. Everyone's changing their minds. are meant for the community, so I'm not gonna buy it and then

have this stigma in my head. So yeah, they were really desperate. That's for sure.

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conundrum of this shit show? And how would you go forward about this? If you were starting a blockchain? What pieces would you put in place to not make this happen again?

using this technology. And what happens basically is if you are part of the wealthy elite on these chains in this analogy, and you are perceived and seem to be abusing the community and not following its best interests and behaving like a dictator, the chain will be forked to a new chain and the community will zero your balance on the new chain and it will leave the old chain leaving your old chain

dead and desolate, right. So this is a way for the poor, for the common people to hold the rich to account to some limited extent. And the hive steem battle is proof that now the community can move where it wants to move, and effectively take your balance, if you're abusing and distributed to the community, you know, of course, that's not going to be the norm because the community doesn't want to have that perception,

right. But if it does happen, there's proof that you're a rich person, you're not investing in the community, you're not investing in the people, then you can, you know, in your ultimate, you end up abusing the people, then you can face some serious consequences to that. And this is proof of that, you know. That, to me is the overall overriding kind of story of this, you know, that finally, we have a technology where the common people can hold the rich to account.

Yeah, and just to build off of that, you can't buy a community. This is all open source technology, that means the IP is now more so worthless, it's more so the network effect behind it, you're going to see more and more proof of stake, you'll hear that word that just basically means you use tokens to vote, the more tokens you have, the more influence you have over network. People like this, because it's green, it's faster. And you know, it's very

versatile. So you're gonna see a lot of proof of stake networks, delegated proof of stake networks, as we evolve into web three, what's going to happen is you're going to see abuse of powers have their stake revoked on the community chain, as you saw with hyper sustainment, because this technology is incredibly expensive to build. And that's why you see these big raises Icos, and they raise, and they keep a lot of the tokens

for themselves. But as those you know, those pre mines, as you call it, as they become dictators, or going against the best wishes of the community, the community can say, Hey, we have enough resources, we can take this technology, we can fork it, make an identical copy of it, call it something else move over there. And now we do not have to accept those rules, because we will just slash their balances, this is going to

become a big thing. And people can really study what happened between steam hive and Tron as a real blueprint of how to hold these large actors to account who tried to control these future networks. A couple of other things that hive did to prevent the takeover from some Justin Sun and in the future. So the weak point was the fact that it had this 30% pre mined still with a single

centralized entity. And you see this all over blockchain, almost every single token, the top 100 has got a significant portion of its tokens with a centralized entity. And they're all saying, oh, we're going to decentralize, we're working towards decentralization. This is an incredibly weak, vulnerable points. And it's a corruptible attack vector on these chains. And people just to kind of brush this off like it's nothing.

However, as the chains become successful as we couldn't, they become influential and start working against the interests of the system. So for example, with steem, it had a big free speech thing, right, it was very much anti censorship. And, of course, country's backing, people are just concerned. They want censorship. So they've got a vested interest in taking that 30% pre mined, and preventing people from having their free

speech on the chain. So hive, having distributed that to the community with a decentralized hard fork proposal system. They also what they did is if you ever want to do that again, so if you want to buy a lot of hive and then use it to vote to potentially take over the chain, you have you have to wait for I think it's 30 days or a month, right? Where you can't use that stake to vote after you've

staked it or powered it up. So what it does is as a community sees a big guy coming in to buy a load of steem, or should I say a load of hive, and he, you know, just coming to my wall kind of thing, is this a shady actor? Is he benevolent? Is he got bad intentions? It gives it gives the community time to act before they potentially get taken over. Whereas with steem, as soon as just Justin Sun had that 30% it was there was no time. Time was done But he

started voting, you know. So that's one of the things that have been changed in hive to make it much more difficult. And because The largest distribution on hive is 3%. You need about roughly 40% of the supply. So that means somebody would have to go by 30% plus off the market that would make everyone on the chain very rich, and we would see their attack coming from a mile away.

And we would say oh well, if your attacker will just fork again and we have all of this money and will ruin your chain. And it's a positive feedback loop for the community. Every time you attack it. It makes it more powerful.

team. What other value prop could you use to like, put in all this blood, sweat and tears and not get equity? You know what I mean? Like it's I get where you guys are coming from but as a founder, what would you do to to ensure that you have a lot of light at the end of the tunnel?

call getting Justin suned. They don't have to worry about their token balance being attacked, because let's say it lives on the Ethereum network or lives on a big network that's really hard to attack. But if you're a layer one, it becomes increasingly difficult because it's a trust game at that point. You would have to say, look at our track record, this is what we're going

to do with the funds. And unlike in the steem days, when it first originated, we have technology now that can hold them to account where they can say, hey, we'll lock this in a DAO, and then we can have votes if we earn the tokens. And that's sort of the way that you can, as a founder, you can say, hey, look, we're not going to take anything, but if you think we deserve it, then you can forgive you can, you know, vote on that? Some of those sort of angles I would say?

mine. And this is why Bitcoin is so good, because it is decentralized. This is the very reason why it is decentralized because there was a fair opportunity given. So basically, what you're doing is you're building open source software, you're giving it away for free, and then what you're doing is you're now going to compete and provide value to that chain. And the more value you provide to that chain, the more money reward, you're gonna be able to

get. On a level equal playing field to everybody else, even if they didn't build any of the system themselves. That's how you get a decentralized system. That's how you avoid being a security. That's how you make sure that you basically can turn around and say, Look, we are decentralized, you know. Going on to what Dan said there that I just want to touch on that a little bit, because I think it's really important, there's two ways to do this, that I'm aware

of. One is you create a separate balance in the chain for a fund. So in the same way that steems ninja mine was moved across onto hive and set as a proposal system so that the community could get access to those funds based on community votes, or again, all decentralized, all based on stake. There's no centralized entity behind this. So what you can do is, then you can say, well, we're the founders, we've got zero tokens, because we gave them what we

gave away in a distribution. And now there's like a proof of brain distribution where people based on your stakes proof of stake basically, based on your stake, you can distribute more

stake. So what you say to people is, Hey, can you vote for me in the proposal system, and actually fund us X amount per year, in the token that the community has created, you know, and oftentimes the community, I believe, will say, Yes, because the community appreciate the work you've already done for free to get to that point, right. So the vested community has a vested interest to vote for those proposals to get that

money distributed to you. But the whole point is there at that point, it's a distributed decision. And it's not a centralized decision. The other thing that you can do is, and this is one of the things we'll we'll do on 3 speak with our Creator tokens, and I don't think hardly anyone's thinking about this. We can talk about immutable accounts and accounts being owned outside the system, so they can't be taken away from content creators anymore, that's already happening on 3 speak and

hive. And what happens is then these accounts, because I want to distribute labor, no CEO, no company behind them, there's a whole distributed ledger of accounts system, they can then run their own tokens. So now you can have content creators with their own tokens. And the problem is, if you're a content creator, you think from this centralized mentality, again, I'm going to give myself 5% of

my own tokens. So when I float a million tokens on the market when I make $5 million, you know, in one night, sounds very lucrative, very nice, right, but it's gonna get you in trouble with the SEC. And certainly, it makes the distribution system more centralized and more vulnerable to attack. So all you do instead is you use a system like hive, which has been decentralized in an organic way, even after a war has happened on it, right. So there's no Central Party there anymore. There's no

Corporation behind it. It's been distributed for five years in a proof of brains proof of stake distribution process. So it's very well distributed. So as a result, you as a content creator can have some criteria within that community and drop your tokens to those community members that meet a certain criteria. Are they active, you know, have they got A certain balance already, whatever it is you decide to drop to, but you drop zero to yourself as a

content creator, right. So there's no way that you control any distribution for tokens. But then what you do is, on chains like hive and speak network, you create content on those chains, because there's zero fees, they're very fast transaction times, three second transaction times, it's very cheap to run and to create content on those chains, and then distribute currency distribute new

inflation to that contents. So what's gonna happen in the future, I believe, is that the content creators will create their own tokens, but they will get zero for themselves, they will have no control over the distribution of tokens. But their community members who would dedicate community members who already have been in their community for a long time, will be able to get access to those

tokens. And then what they'll do is they'll use their stake to vote on the content creators contents in a distributed community decision way without a centralized entity behind the token. And over time, the original content creators content will gain value, because it will have these tokens backing them. From the new inflation distributed to these pieces of content, that community votes for themselves.

And so over time, you'll get the content creators because their community follow them, the original creators are going to end up with a certain proportion

of the supply. But it won't be done in a centralized security driven way or be done in a distributed decentralized way where they'll have to be a short period of time where the content creator trust their own community, to keep voting for their content so that they can get a, you know, an influential supply of their own tokens so that they can vote on governance decisions in their own

communities later. And that would then keep them away from the centralized models that we're all currently using the blockchain.

the accounts, right? Because the followers are listed on these block chains, you can't just delete the follower accounts. It's the same principle as Bitcoin being a transaction method. The speak network and hive are a content delivery method for using the same principles as Bitcoin. So basically, this information is stored on these chains, immutably, and as a result, you can then run currencies on these

communities as well. So we're going to have in the near future are content creators integrating this technology, it's web three, they're going to own their own accounts, they're going to own their own communities, they're going to have their own distributed currencies, and their followers are going to be backing all of this, they're going to be stored pits, all the cons is going to be stored peer to peer. So there's no centralized entity they're relying on in any phase of the

content creation process. And as a result, they're basically going to be become communities of their own right, kind of almost like independent nations on the internet. Right, where everything they use is either self hosted or distributed. They're gonna have economies if they've got 100,000 followers, you're talking about the economy, sustainable economy, the size of a small town, you know. When these things are going to start, they're going to become powerful people, I

believe. These currencies going to become powerful and influential, they're not debt backed, the distributed based on value created via the content.

So yeah, I mean, it's going to be a very, very interesting future, a complete contrast to the current Facebook and Twitter censorship is going on left, right and center where even if you're a great content creator, you're very successful, you'reou really a little bitch, because you've got to watch your tongue you go, be careful what you say, you know, because of anything you say, anytime now, they just delete the 1 million follower community overnight, and what are you going to do? There's

nothing you can do. Whereas this is the opposite. This takes away that control from big tech and puts it onto a distributed layer, which isn't controlled by

any centralized organization. So as a result of the decisions as to whether the account gets deleted, the decisions as to whether the followership gets gets censored or shadow banned, is going to be on a distributed decision by the community rather than just on someone like jack Dorsey or Mark Zuckerberg who may not just simply, who may want to do that just basic based on disagreeing with your politics, you know, that's where we move in and to me it's incredibly exciting because it

is a polar opposite of what we have currently.

takes one, right? The technology is incredibly new, it's novel, people, it's difficult, you're taking a complete shift from, well, we own you everything and your content. And if you forget your password, it's fine, we can just pat you on the butt, to hardcore self ownership, don't lose the keys. And you know, we're building to a way where it looks and feels like web two, except it's web three on the back end. And that just takes time, but you're seeing big content creators make the move.

They're still, you know, sort of poking around how to fully use this, you see the NFT craze, and they're basically tokenizing themselves? Well, now you're gonna, you know, the next thing is you're gonna start hearing a lot about community tokens. And that's basically communities tokenizing, creating, you know, turning their memes and NFTs, finding self sovereign ways to become self sustainable. And it only takes one to look over, you know, we have an example of a

Leo finance.io. That's a community built on hive, you know, it's about a 5 million market cap token, they have a small niche following, but that just shows you the power of an organized tokenized community, where every transaction, everything on the inside is a positive feedback loop because, you know, buy sell pressure, bringing more people in creates

a bigger network effect. And you're gonna see these people with millions of followers say, holy crap, I can tokenize myself and have 100 million market cap token overnight. That's going to become incredibly lucrative. So it's not so much Oh, you know, you just have to bite the bullet on user experience is going to be well, wow, this is way better business models that web two just can't offer.

tools. So not only are you going to get content creators moving across the platforms, like Hive, 3speak, and speak network, but you're going to end up seeing content creators embed this technology into their own websites. And the important thing about that is that once they upload a video on their own website, that then is stored in a distributed community, peer to peer, and then the rest of the websites built on that whole network and get access to that content and present it to their

own front ends. So it creates the potential for a huge network effect. And then on top of that, when the platform's themselves, so we're looking at like a bittubes, we're looking at, you know, Odyssey, peer tube, all these are the alternative tech platforms, right? What we're building currently, and we are giving ourselves none of the token, right, we are not going to drop ourselves any other token, we want this to be distributed in a fair

opportunity mining process. So we're going to build these tools, we're going to build content creator tokens, immutable communities, immutable accounts, NFT systems into these things, this is all being built at the moment, we're looking at a six to eight month, rollout time. And instead of all of these alternative platforms, doing that on their own, and then running the blockchain systems behind that, which is a pain in the ass, we basically

done it for them. And they're going to be able to implement this technology into their own platforms. And then without without having to do hardly any dev work for themselves, you know, and they gonna be able to go compete fairly, basically do exactly what they do at the moment, but use that information to mine, the tokens, the governance tokens inside the speak network, and compete again, like Satoshi did with his compatriots in a fair level playing field with the people

that created the system. And then hopefully, will you know all the value creators to the content creators, the content creators, sites, and the platforms themselves will all have a vested interests in a distributed content system, that basically allows them to live on web three and give the middle finger to the current web two and not have to care in the world anymore about what Zuckerberg thinks about them, or whether AWS is going to delete their account or whatever, you

know. Those days are over and then Welcome to the new days, you know, and so, it for me, it's super, super exciting, and it certainly represents a massive light at the end of the tunnel, where these walls feel like they're clipped. I don't know how you feel But to me, it feels like that. The walls are closing in, if you're a web two person, and just a person, the world in general mode feels like the walls are closing like crazy, you know, with all this crazy stuff going on in the

world. And this web three technology gives you the opportunity to get out of that system become self reliant, and rely upon your community only in an immutable decentralized way.

to go? Is it something you'd be interested in? Not again, not necessarily even with 3speak, just the whole principle of owning your own account, owning your own community outside of a centralized platform, and not having to worry about effectively turning the web two platforms into traffic funnels

their real life. I do quite enjoy Twitter because I believe that Twitter is a phenomenal source to learn new stuff and to just stay on top of things, have that constant news feed and with Twitter at least you can actually choose who you're getting info from. So you can follow right wing people left wing people if you want to go politics. You can choose and curate your newsfeed how you want.

the world? And I'm like, holy shit, I you know, imagine the reach that I would have right now if I got on when I should have? Who knows that very well could happen. As of right now Twitter is working. It's great for a company, it's great for crypto news, all the other socials are working great as

well. But again, there's also that risk where if any of these guys if Zuck or Dorsey or anyone God knows who's running Tik tok, but if any of them wanted to actually cancel us, you're right, they could in a heartbeat, and it wouldn't decimate our business, but it would be very tough to get that back up and running. I wish I had a better answer for you, gentlemen. But again, as of right now, just kind of stick with the status flow. But again, I have some friends who have

couple 100,000 followers. And this is something that when I've spoken to them about this, they are very, very concerned. Because again, they're making hundreds of 1000s, and some of the millions of dollars a year. And it's only because of these platforms. It's like an e commerce company I used to work for. If it weren't for Facebook, we would have been decimated because if without Facebook ads and Instagram ads, a little fun

stat for you. There's not one e commerce unicorn in the history of e commerce companies, that is scaled to become a unicorn without Facebook or Instagram ads. It's a matter of life or death. It's craziness.

What I want to do is come along and say, Look, we've built all this for you is done, you have to pay nothing, you have to do nothing different to what you're already doing. You just integrate this technology, you don't even have to run a blockchain. And you have an equal opportunity to mine the tokens as well as what we do, because we're not going to give

ourselves any of the tokens. So it's like, you know, we want to turn into a no brainer to the point where we have a couple of bigger platforms start using this stuff. And then by default, we have their content creators. And in theory, they shouldn't even really know that they're using the technology, it will just be there kind of ticking away underneath the hood. And they'll just be presented with several options to select from.

getting high views. And we're gonna see that trend continue and that they start to communicate with each other in a way where Twitter's like, No, you can't communicate with us, the alt platforms like we're open source, and then before you know it 234 or five band together, and it starts to become, because it's all awareness, it's all attention.

And then once the creators can make more money on the alt platforms, that's when it'll be a great migration, because then the centralized entities can't undercut web three, because web three, there's no CEO to pay. And if there's no CEO pay, that's like the bottom line, and web two just has to throw up their hand and say, Well, I'm not gonna work for free.

security by definition. And they're going to really struggle to get away with not being classes securities on all these years, because, of course, they're going to try to create content creator tokens for their content creators, but how on earth they're going to be able to achieve doing it without... because the reason that we're not worried about it is because we aren't, speak network, that backs 3 speak, that 3 speak is built upon, isn't a centralized entity, right? 3 speak isn't

going to release any tokens. But the speak network will be the network that's run on multiple distributed nodes all over the world that creates these tokens. And how's the SEC? How can you be a community that creates a token, then be classed as a security is impossible?

just unacceptable. So as a result, you're going to get this web three move where on web three, you own your own account outright, you own your community outright, you have tokens attached those communities, the whole thing's run on a web three protocol that is distributed and not backed by any centralized entity. So as a result that protocol can't be sued like you can't sue the internet, right? The Internet, web is a protocol. And there is no company that

backs it. But you have all these platforms built on top of the web. Well, web threes have very similar effects, similar thing, except that the users themselves are able to take self sovereignty and own their own data and their own information,

their own communities. And then release tokens in on these distributed decentralized layers that can't be, the SEC is going to struggle, because there's no centralized entity that they can approach, you know, if it's on a distributed protocol, and these protocols are very well distributed, you can see from Bitcoin and various other chains that these things are decentralized and distributed. There are no companies backing these things, they are

effectively unstoppable. So that's where web three is going you know, and that to me is incredibly exciting work.

as one account, you own it. The sites become skins to a gamer, they've known that as skins to you know, a normal person probably noticed the front end, basically, the sites run skin deep, they don't own your account, they don't own your content. And what this does against the people who own the account, incredible leverage

over the sites. So it's just a complete flip on, you know, on the ownership, so you're just gonna see a much better user experience when you can have 100 different sites logged in from the same account, same follower list, same communities, you can choose what you do, and you know, I have a saying, you know, CEOs dissolve into protocols, gatekeepers dissolve into communities. And that's what's gonna happen. Instead of one entity running, everything is going to be very community

driven. And those communities are going to have to abide by the law of the land. If they're breaking the law, they're going to have to be held responsible. But it's going to be the community that size now, not one entity. So

to that. Hopefully they can throw in a part about when you came on the crypto news pod. Maybe I can get in there too. But regardless, this was amazing. Thank you so much. Before you guys go, and Matt, I know you said you didn't want to plug but as part of the pod you Come on, tell great stories, and give insights to our guests. And in return, they get to see where you are at. So the floor is yours, please tell us where they can find you online, and everywhere else on the web?

as well 3speak. And then I guess on the other side, we have 3speak.tv, which is our main website that runs videos upon the hive blockchain and the speak network. And then we've got speak network, spk.network is our protocol that we're going to run our video platforms on. And any of you guys can also run your own platforms in your own

systems on that as well. In the very near future, probably two to three months from now we're going to have claim drop, so anyone who holds hive will be able to receive an equivalent amount of tokens of miner tokens for the speak network. So the speak token will start at zero balance for everyone. But the miner tokens that you require to mine the speak token will be dropped to hive holders. Because hive such a decentralized, blockchain has been distributed

for five years now. And we feel it's a really great place to give a good opportunity to many, many people all over the world to get a chance to be part of this system, and part of the governance. So please, please, please get involved in that if you are interested in freedom and web three and holding these web Two accounts to account

we will see you shortly. Bye for now.