Him, Max Kazer, this is Gary Leland and you're listening episode one forty three of the Crypto Cousins podcast. Feed your interest in bitcoin and cryptocurrencies by joining Hall of Fame podcaster Gary Leland on the Crypto Cousins Podcast. And remember we are all cousins in the world of crypto. This week's price of bitcoin nine thousand, one hundred and twenty eight dollars. That's down four hundred and ninety nine dollars, are five point two percent over the past seven days.
Max, How you doing great, Gary, Good to see you. You know, I haven't seen you since Las Vegas before lockdown. Yeah. Yeah, you know, Tone just barely got that in. It's un confiscatable. What do you get that in by like a week? Maybe? Yeah. We were just staying ahead of the waves, staying ahead of this tsunami, staying ahead of it the pandemic as it went global. You know, we were wow y times. Now we're all on lockdown. Yeah. I think
we met before that on the roof at Christians in San Francisco. That's where I met you and Stacy originally. That was a good time. Also, a lot of good meat there. That was a good program there at the I think that was Bitcoin magazine. Yeah, Bitcoin twenty nineteen. It is a shame they had to cancel twenty twenty. I was really looking forward to that, really really bad welcome to the show. Like I said, I was, you know, doing some research on you before you came on the
show, because I've known you and I watched your show a lot. You know, you and Stacy on the show a lot, but I didn't. I've never really researched you or found anything out about you personally. I just knew from watching the show that you've been in the financial markets for quite a while. But you've been doing the Kaiser Reports since like two thousand and nine.
Yeah, that's correct, sit out the nine Kaiser Report. Before that, we were doing television shows kind of thematically the same for BBC and other networks around the world. So we've been doing TV for fifteen sixteen years. We've been doing podcasting for probably seventeen years. It's all usually the same theme, the same you know, banksters, bankers, global finance and taking an insider's look at what goes on at banks and how do they really make money
and what really happens. Because I worked on Wall Street for many years, and Stacy brought her TV producing chops to the game, and so we put those two together. That's the formula that's worked now for a long time. We all seem to make a perfect couple, and you both seem to me. I mean, I've only mentioned person twice to both really nice people. So I guess y'all have a good life together there in your hide away wherever
you guys are in seclusion at Well, yeah, that's great. You know, we're traveling really a NonStop for our seventeen years really, so now we're you know, now we're on the lockdown. So that's but that's working out great too. So you know, we always figure out a way to make it work. So let me ask you a question. How did you get into bitcoin originally? I know you probably get asked this a lot, but I don't know, and my audience may not know. But you found it
early, I think because you were telling people to get it. I think I've heard you say you were telling people to get it at like fifty cents or something, a dollar a dollar. So we heard about it in twenty eleven on Kaiser Report, we had John Mtonis was on the show and he introduced us to it. And you know, I have a patent for digital scarcity that that was filed in nineteen ninety six, and it covers virtual currencies,
digital scarcity, digital market making, digital securities, digital securities. And so I already knew about this concept of digital scarcity and how it applies to networks and markets, and that was sold was part of the business called the Hollywood Stock Exchange, and the Hollywood Stock Exchange, the business that I created was sold in two thousand and one to Cantor Fitzgerald on Wall Street, and they they use that patent to trade derivatives and other types of virtual securities.
So that's so. And I saw the heard about bitcoin to twenty eleven. I was immediately figured that, wow, you know, this is such a such an improvement over my attempt to create digital scarcity. So you already knew then when you saw bitcoin, it just made sense to you already. You didn't have to sit there. You know. Most and I'm not sure, but I assume you're close to my age. I'm sixty five, so I
assume you're a boomer. Most boomers I meet just can't even get a concept to what bitcoin is I don't want to say there's stupid, but they have a hard time with the concept of money that's not backed by anything, even though the dollars not backed by anything, so they have they seem to have a hard time with that. But you right away got it because you were already involved in that world. I guess, well, yeah, I mean, it's not the question of what backs the dollar. The question is what
backs gold? Really, that's the question. When you ask about what backs bitcoin, you have to ask, well, what backs gold? I mean, the dollars nowhere part of the conversation. We already know that that's not even worth discussing early. But what backs gold is the question, and what backs bitcoin? So yeah, when I saw it in twenty eleven, I already had this idea of digital scarcity and been working on that for a number
of years. Of course, bitcoin has distributed digital scarcity, right, So that is a whole nother technological breakthrough and a whole nother suite of technology, and the stack that is the bitcoin stack, is multilayered and has a lot going on. So I mean I had an affinity for it right away. But it's not to say that I understood it immediately. You know, it still takes quite a bit of work to dig into the tech stack and get familiar with it. But nobody needs really to go down that rabbit hole now
because it's been around for eleven years. It's established itself. Just like the tcp IP protocol runs the Internet. People don't question that, they just accept it. Nobody knows how that works. If you ask a million people on the Internet today to explain tcp IP, you would get a million blank stairs, right. They don't have any idea how it works. So nobody really needs to know how bitcoin works at this point. The fact is that it
does work. It's challenging gold and we see now those global hashwark where countries the game theory that's baked into the protocol has jumped to the sovereign level. So now you've got Venezuela and Iran are now getting into bitcoin in a big way. This will bring in other players, and now you've got countries mining bitcoin strategically increase this is the security, and then that increases the price. So you know, we're in this new twenty twenty period where we're going to
see some fireworks. Well, you've covered a lot of stuff there. I really enjoying this conversation. I want to go back to first though, what you said, because I found that real interesting. What backs goal? Let's go into a conversation on that real quick. Tell me more about that conversation. What back's gold? I mean because to me, I always say when people, well we're telling me and they compare it to gold, you know, well, I know gold is scarce. I go, I don't know.
They've been mining that stuff since before Jesus was born and doesn't looks like they're running out yet. And now they're talking about meteors and stuff. So what back's goal? What's the tell me that has had that conversation. Well, gold is scarce, and it is scarce. It's distributed scarcity, right, gold is scarce, then you find it all over the world, and then it has other properties like it's portable, it's desirable, it's bungeible,
it's divisible, it's impossible to counterfeit. And so you had that all up and it becomes money. And it's been money for thousands of years after many trials and earth. They've been in many types of attempts to create money, but only one is really evolved to be the main money now. You know, up until bitcoin and that has been gold, and it is. The scarcity factor is a huge factor. If you know there are there's there's an attack vector if you will, I mean there could be meteors with gold,
there could be meteor mining, there could be mining in ocean water. There's a lot of gold in the oceans that could be somehow mined or converted harvested as gold, and the supply would would go up. But the market doesn't price those things in the market is aware of that, but at the moment, it doesn't give it a price because it's not a risk that is worth
impacting the price of gold. If in fact there was if those things became to existence, if suddenly meteor mining of gold was viable at a cost that was practical, then you would start to see that reflected in the price of gold. But for all intents and purposes, at the moment, the scarcity factor of gold is primary driver of what makes it money, and you find that with bigcoin as well. You don't have that with fiat money. Obviously, there's no scarcity at all in fiat money. So that's why it's not
really money. It's a current it's a state currency, it's a government currency. You can it's a medium of exchange, but it's not technically money like gold and bitcoin are money. But as gold gets to if gold reaches three thousand dollars four thousand dollars an ounce, that opens up a revenue of gold that was too expensive to get before. And now I guess that gold starts getting mined, and that's kind of an attack factor that brings a price down. Well, I mean sure, I mean you get to the stock to
flow model, right, so as it applies to gold. That's where stock to flow was first applied to gold. The amount of you know, the mining of gold around the world is constrained to some degree by the fact that there are fewer and fewer big gold deposits that are being found. The one in South Africa, the gold mine there, I think it's the biggest in the world, is so deep they're you know, starting to hit lava right there. They've they've gone down pretty much as far as they can go down.
So you've got this concept of peak gold. It's fine, it's hard to find gold deposits. They're not finding big ones anymore. A lot of it's already been pulled out of the ground. If the price goes up,
then you do have more mining activity and that would impact the price. All those things have been going on for hundreds of years, thousands of years, and that's but at the net result is gold has been a good store of value and good money for a long time, and it's you have to focus maybe less on the supply issue of gold and focus more on the supply issue of fiat money. Right. So, if the world was on a gold
standard, you would have a much different type of economic reality. But since we're on a paper money standard, that the paper money is exploding exponentially.
Even if the supply of gold were to suddenly double in a day, the supply of paper money would expand by one hundred x. You know, in the next you know, the supply of paper money is expanding exponentially, right, I mean the Fed printed six trillion dollars in a weekend just a few days ago, right, I mean, So even if the if goal discoveries increased by a noticeable amount, you know, two percent, let's say the average of supply expands from two or three percent, let's say it goes to
five percent or six percent, Right, it doubles, which would be an extraordinary increase in gold mining if it doubled. But the paper money is expanding by leaps and bounds many many multiples of that. And that's why we own goal is to protect us against paper money. It maintains its store of value. Right, So you're not owning gold, just own gold. You're owning gold because we live in a fiat paper world. That's why we own gold.
That's why we own Pitpoint. So whatever the supply issues might be with gold, keep in mind that the supply issues for paper money are extraordinarily much more, you know, voluminous. Well, but noticetate you just made about Iran and Venezuela now getting into bitcoin, I think that's a pretty big topic there. I mean I've been seeing articles like yesterday in Venezuela you can now get passports with bitcoin. I mean, it's starting to work into societies.
How would you think that's going to affect bitcoin and the United States in long run? It's great because it built into the Bitcoin protocol. Is that game theory? And these in the mining space where the global mining center of gravity you know, has moved around east being Eastern Europe now it's uh, there's there was a big concentration in China that's breaking up, and we're seeing more
happening in the United States. And so because that's the game theory, as as in operation, people are willing to take a risk mining and throw resources at it because of the greed factor. That's a human nature that will never not be with us. And then now it's jumped up to the sovereign level. So states like Venezuela and Iran who have been subjected to censorship with the US dollar transactions, either censoring the swift system for moving money around or sanctions
this type of thing. They are trying to figure out how to escape the US dollar a gemony. And in the case of Venezuela, of course, they first experimented with the petru, which was their own cryptocurrency, which they've realized that actually is never going to work, and now they've migrated to Bitcoin, which is exactly what we predicted would happen. This is what is happening. In the case of Iran, I think they've got three percent of the
global hash rate at the moment. They realize that it's a strategic reserve and it's a way they bypassed US dollar sanctions, and it's a way to get hard money and they have cheap energy, so they figured it out. So you know, the world history, you know, is very dynamic. You know, the winners, today's winners or tomorrow's losers. Right, we can't just as you're a winner today doesn't mean you're going to be a winner tomorrow.
Just because America has had an empire for one hundred hundred years, one hundred you know, certainly since World War Two, let's call it seventy years, doesn't mean America's gonna have an empire next month. Right, Things change? Yeah, the Roman Empire lasted five hundred years and it's still disappeared, right, Yeah, things change. And similarly, they messed around with their currency, didn't they the denarius, right, and that brought down that Rome.
So America is fooling around it with the US dollar, the world reserve currency, and that's not good that we know from history that usually ends catastrophic, catastrophically. So I know that both Iran and Venezuela have been left out of or attacked by the financial system, like they can't use swift in things. But also you know, both of those countries have cheap energy. So do you think now that we see countries with cheap energy mining that would move
to Saudi Arabia and those countries next where they have cheap energy. I think so. I think that's a good way to look at it, because the other countries if they look at it around and they look at Venezuela and they say, wait a minute, if these two start controlling a bigger piece of the global hash ray, they could be the richest countries of the world.
We can't let that happen, right, that's game theory. So yeah, maybe Saudi Arabia pops in and says, hey, let's start mining bitcoin, and at some point you're going to have part of the G seven countries or G twenty country is going to say, hey, you know, we got to get in on this. You know, maybe a Germany or somebody. They'll subsidize the mining. But that's where we're headed, and that's what's happening in twenty twenty. I think that's going to be the biggest story of twenty
twenty, is the global hash war, as I call it. So, how would the US you think approach that? Would they just start mining? Try to figure out a way to shut it down with a fifty one percent attack, or would they just say print the hell out of this money and start buying bitcoin. Right, Well, you can't shut it down with a fifty one percent attack, and I'll get to that in a second. What they'll do is it will be like that Sputnik moment where America entered the space
race. Right first, Russia put up a satellite. Then America said, oh my god, we can't let them win the space race, and so we put a man on the moon. America will wake up probably at some point and say, wait a minute, we can't lose the global hash war, because that's the most important thing going in the world today. So they will put a lot of money at it. Hopefully they'll be able to and
the economy won't be completely destroyed before they make that decision. But if they can print six trillion dollars to bail out some dodgy bankers on Wall Street and do that in a weekend, right, I mean they can print six trillion dollars to go mind bitcoin? Well, I would think they can print six tree and just go buy it. Well, then they can buy it,
right, they can mind it. They can buy it. Sure. Now as far as the fifty one percent attack goes, there's no possibility of a fifty one percent attack at this point from any country or any group of countries. Again, getting back to games theory, the way the protocol is designed is it attracts people to attack it. And that's part of the way it works, because it increases the security of the protocol in fact, which is
but by having all this additional computational resources thrown at the mining process. And then this of course drives a price higher. So the price of that fifty one percent attack keeps going higher because you keep attacking it. So the more you attack it, the higher the price of the coin goes. The more expensive the attack becomes, and you never get to the point where you can afford to make the attack. So I fully invite every country in the world
to attack it. This is how we get to four or five hundred thousand dollars a coin. You need the United States to do something stupid like say we're going to attack bitcoin. That'd be awesome because we'd be at two hundred thousand on bitcoin the next day. That would be sweet to agree. That would be very happy if that happened for sure. Hey, before we go any further, I want to make sure everybody listening knows about bit block Boom, the Bitcoin conference coming to Dallas, Texas. And I call it a
bitcoin conference because it's not a crypto conference or an all team Prince. It's a bitcoin conference. But go to bitblockboom dot com and take a look and see what you think. This will be our third year. So bitblock boom dot com. Max, something you've talked a lot about. You and Stacey talked a lot about on the show that I'm not sure I completely understand.
And that's one of the things I'm reason I'm asking is to educate myself, which I do a lot of these shows to educate myself and hopefully other people get educated at the same time. Explain to me the Contillion effect. I'm not sure that I have that down, and I'd like to understand that allreat
Well. It's based on an economist by that name of Contillion, and he observed that when government prints money, it's not evenly distributed, doesn't go out evenly across the economy, goes to basically those who are friends of the government
or the friends of the bankers. First they have use of the money immediately, and in the case of let's say the banks on Wall Street, they would take that money that the government prints and buy back their own stock and then that makes their executive stock options go up by thousands of percentage points in
a month. So that's what happens first, And the money stays in that very close circle, right, It stays in the bank, and it stays in the executives of the bank, and they create the multi gazillion dollar bonus for themselves based on that free money. Then there will be a need for that group of people who just became instabillionaires to hire some cooks, and hire
some chauffeurs, and hire more gardeners for their estates. Right, And then that's when the money reaches those people, So that a trickle down effect.
Yeah, it gets diluted. It gets constantly deluted. The contilling effect is that the money purchasing power gets diluted as it works, as it's distributed out to the periphery of the economy, and it creates a wealth gap in an income gap because the first users of it are able to engineer extraordinary wealth gains, and by the by time it gets down to the gardeners and the chefs and the people running the taxi drivers. They don't have the same opportunity.
They're just now at this point hand them out existence. And it would an example be of that is how much money the banks and corporations got it right now while the average person got twelve hundred bucks or whatever. Right, the bank's got billions, hundreds of billions, and the average person got twelve hundred bucks. Right. So that's a good example right there, right and months
have gone by. It's not like it's been a week. It's been months and they've only got in twelve hundred dollars and he can't go to work. They're locked down. In the two thousand or an eight crisis, you had a huge bailout of the banks, not the debtors, but the creditors. That's a good tillion effect. They said, the creditors are at risk of going out of business even though they made all these faulty, dodgy loans.
So we're going to print a bunch of money and bail them out, but it won't circulate through the economy to create any kind of wealth for anybody else. And we see that in the money velocity chart. So the money velocity chart for the past twenty years has gone straight down. It's almost getting near zero. That's the impact of the containing effect. It doesn't circulate, doesn't get it doesn't escape the immediate circle of the bankers and their friends, primarily
other bankers. So the central bank comes to the rescue, but to rescue certain people. Basically, yeah, as in it a capitalist economy, there's a competition going on. It's called competitive free market economics. And the competitive economy ends up with some losers, people who are not competitive, and they
get weeded out. For example, banks that made bad loans. They if it were a free market, capitalist economy, they would go out of business, and then those banks would be replaced by new banks, and hopefully new banks would know how to run a bank better and do a better job. But in the United States, bad banks are rewarded for failure, and bad
corporations now are rewarded for failure with free money. So you have almost twenty percent of the SMP five hundred or corporations whose interest costs on their debts are greater than there are profits, and the response by the central bank is to keep rewarding them with more debt money, more debt money to actually increase their debts. Why do they do that because they get a fee packaging all these bad debts and training them back and forth. And it's a multi one hundred
trillion dollars industry that generates a few percentage points and fees. But two percent on a one hundred tillion dollars bond sale is you know, is real money. Yeah, it's a lot of money. Yeah, it's real money. It's two trillion dollars, right, So if you could make two trillion dollars by selling one hundred tillion dollars with the worthless government debt or corporate debt, you know, without any restrictions or legal ramifications you why not because of the
way this money has been handled. I mean, you know, this whole situation and printing money giving it to the people that are closest to the top, the people at the bottom getting watered down money, as you say,
or not getting much at all. Anyway, that's pretty much causing inflation and justice and what we're seeing happening right now in the world, like in Seattle, you know, of taking the six block area, all the unrest because people don't have any money and they're getting pissed off and they figure out what's going on. Is that what we're looking at, is that the effect of what's happening, well, I mean it's just a roller back for a second.
So you mentioned inflation, and you know this is a widely misused term, as is deflation. And the problem is deflation. And let me explain. So the bond market is in America hasn't been this high in the two hundred and forty years that America has existed. The bond market in the UK has not been in this this high, and this kind of a the bubble
that the bond sovereign bond markets in in over three hundred years. So the fuel this multi hundred year bond bubble requires this perpetual infusion of more debt money. Right, all Fiat money is debt, and it's all being created to support this ever growing global bond bubble of debt. And that's deflationary because it
has an enormous weight on the global economy of being indebted. It's just like any an individual would want to you know, if you're in a lot of debt, it's it's difficult to you know, operate to become profitable well in the planet Earth. You know, is the debt the GDP for the global economy is like over three hundred percent, and that's growing quite rapidly. In America now that debt to GDP is well over one hundred percent. So it's
a debt. It's a deflationary that these debts are constantly going bad, right every day. Insolvent American government debt. The problem is that because of its because it's becoming insolvent. So the government creates more debt money to hide the fact that to try to kick the can down the road and damask the insolvency. It's an insolvency problem. They claim it's a liquidity problem, but it's
not. It's an insolvency problem. So the American economy is insolvent. The global economy is insolvent because of deflation, because it went bankrupt, because it because it died in two thousand and eight. And the cure has been more debt deflation. Now we talk about prices going up, that's something else that's the result of price gauging and market failure. The reason healthcare in America is
up so much is because of market failure and price gauging and extortion. The reason the student costs in America are so high is because of extortion, larcenistic behavior of banks, mafia pricing, monopoly saying, and market failure. It's not inflation in the sense that the economy is heating up, wages are going up, and there's u and bond markets are trading down. That's not. That's not what's happening. That would be inflation. That's not. That's not
what's happening. We're happening is a deflationary, rolling, deflationary catastrophe that's being met with a tsunami of more debt money and ruining competition, ruining the economy, and giving rise to a mafia black market economy of healthcare executives, university executives, and other and other folks that are operating like an unlicensed you know, mafia. The mafia pricing is what is what people are seeing and they say, well, that's inflation. Just to be clear, that's not inflation
in the classical economic sense. That's inflation. Like if you have to borrow money from a gangster and he charges you a lot for that money, you wouldn't say to the gangster stop being so inflationary. You know, he'd be like, give me my money or I'm going to blow your head off. Right, It's not like pause Prugman or Noriel Roubini. You know, it's they're gangsters. So when you say, oh, why is my healthcare going through the roof, it's because you've got gangsters. They're not economists. They're
not operating in a free market economy. Yeah. I always said when I put my kids through school, I was always amazed because it was going up ten percent a year, and I always going to wait a second, I understand this. That land's paid for. Many of those buildings have been paid for for twenty years. They're tax free, they don't pay taxes because they're states switching. What in the hell is going up so much over there to make this go up ten percent every year. It's just because they wanted more
money extortion. Yeah, there was no other reason except they wanted money. And the same thing you're saying is the true for medical The faculty by large is not making more money the students once they graduate, they are not really making any money. So why is the cost of education going up? You know, we know that because it subsidized through the government through styly May and student lung you facilities, and that's subsidized by central bankers who are being given
trillions of dollars of free money. And now we're back to the contilling effect right now. I want to go over something else. I heard you. I think I heard you today. I'm not sure if this was your latest
episode. Last week, I interviewed Isaiah Jackson with Black Bitcoin and Black America, and I heard you making a statement on a show, one of your shows of the last few days that the number one thing you were agreeing with Isaiah, basically, the number one thing that's going to help America is buying bitcoin and taking many away from the bankers. That that's going to cause more damage and more good to Black America than burning statues. I think is what
she said. I don't know if I got that correct, but you were just making a point that buying bitcoin would be and that's what Isaiah says, that buying bitcoin would be a great thing to help out not blacks, with everybody right in the case of black Lives Matter and the civil rights movement in America that's been active for more than two hundred years. He's going back to slavery days that extend back to before even the creation of the United States.
One big problem the black community has had, and all people of color have had and minorities have had in the United States, is that their wealth is confiscated. Quite often, certainly in the black community, their wealth is confiscated. We've seen in the two thousand and eight housing crisis, the black homeowners were unusual. You know, they were eviscerated from banks make they made fraudulent
loans to these families. And then when the government came around and they bailed out the bankers having made those frauds on the loans, and they took the homes away from black community and lo and behold, you know the biggest landlord in the American now is Berkshire Hathaway. You know Warren Buffett, who inherited suddenly as a gift from the federal government thousands and thousands of housing units.
I guess because he sent them an as Christmas card or something. I'm not sure when I Warren Buffett is always getting these gifts from the government, but there it is. So Bitcoin is unconfiscatable. So if you want unconfiscatable wealth that nobody can take away from you, and you want to build store of value, and you want to build wealth that bitcoin offers unconfiscatable wealth. This is the first time ever in history that we've had the ability to save our
wealth in an unconfiscatable store of value. That's my message, and I've been saying that since twenty eleven when a bitcoin was a dollar. You know, I reached out to the black community immediately and said, you know, this is something that the black community should be looking at quite seriously because the protests are not working and trying to get into political power, it's not working. You know, it's not working. Nothing's working. But this will work definitely.
And just like people in Venezuela or elsewhere in the world are figuring out that they need to get out of US dollar a geminy, so too in America black community is figuring out, you know what, we're oppressed by the US dollar fiasas them as well, and the only way to stop the oppression is to have our own individual sovereignty, and the only way to do that is bitcoin. You know, you're seeing signs now are I've seen Twitter posts
of signs bitcoin, you know, rallies. I saw a person talking about it at the end of the day at a rally, I mean Isaiah Tom about it. So I think the word is starting to move through America that bitcoin is a needed item to help us stay secure and sovereign, or keep the people sovereign. I guess is what we want to say. Yeah, I want to ask you a question. What's the deal with your Twitter handle? You lost your Twitter handle? You got it back. I don't understand
what happened there. Yeah, it's hard to figure out. Well, back in September of twenty nineteen, my Twitter handle stopped working for me. I went through all the usual customer support. It just hit a blank wall and then nothing would happen. And my belief is that somehow that's a bug on Twitter's part. There. It looked to me like a databased contention issue, or somehow I got trapped in a loop, a databased contention loop, and
I just wasn't getting anywhere to get this thing working. You know. I sent them two dozen roses in a box of chocolates to Twitter headquarters and I said, you know, can you resolve this software issue you have on your on your end because it's annoying. Then did you actually send them roses and jo yeah yeah, yeah, oh yeah from one eight hundred flowers, which uh yeah, it's pretty easy to do. So I sent it to Twitter
headquarters. Then a couple of weeks later, I was talking to my friends at Swan Bitcoin, yeah, which is kind of a startup, and I'm now working with them, and they're like, let me see what I can do. So they got on the case. They well I'm not sure exactly what they did, but lo and behold, the error was was fixed and everything was working fine. So that was a few weeks ago, so I
just started working again. You know, I'm winning the early advisors would Swan, So I'm a big believer in Swan And a matter of fact, they just got one of my best friends set up on Swan because I couldn't get him into bitcoin. I kept telling him and telling him, I said, look, just start buying one hundred dollars worth of this a month or a week or whatever, so you have some skin in the game and then you'll start watching it. I think that helps people a lot when they just get
some skin in the game. And I think that's a good way to get some skin in the game without having to watch it without having to watch the market, and you start seeing what's happening. It's the easiest way on ramp to bitcoin is Swan Bitcoin, and it's cheaper than anybody else. It's a great company. They got great content, great educational materials. People who are running it are you know, really hardcore bitcoiners, great folks, And yes,
I can totally recommend it to anybody. No coiners, you know, potential bitcoiners. As you say, you know, you can just sign up to buy ten dollars a week or one hundred dollars a month or something, and you know what's what's your downside? There? Nothing really, But once you start to get into it, then it starts to work on you. I always say that you don't change bitcoin. Bitcoin changes you. Once you allow yourself to be influenced by the magic of the protocol, stuff happens.
Well, I think you're right on there. Once you start getting involved with it, you go down that rabbit hole, whether you want to or not, you start getting I think, so yeah, yeah, ye. Before we shut off and go out of here, where can people follow you? Where can I find your show? Give me the scoops? Because I actually didn't watch your show until I met you in California. And then I started seeing your show and I said, oh, that's the people I met in
California. That's how I know what I mean. I'm going, oh, I know them, I met them. Let's see what there are shows about. And then I became kind of addicted to your show, and so tell people where they can get addicted at. Well. Of course, my Twitter handle Max Kayser. Stacy's Twitter handle is Stacy Herbert, and The Kaiser Report has a Twitter handle at Kaiser Report. And most people just watch it on YouTube, so if you do Kaiser Report search on YouTube, you can find
it. It's also dubbed into Spanish now for three or four years, and it has huge following in Spanish speaking countries. Really, it's just taken off incredibly. We get hundreds of thousands of Yews every episode dubbed into Spanish. That's because in the Spanish speaking world, like in Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, the message of what we're saying hard money in bitcoin, it's real people there in America is going to be probably the last country to really join the
bitcoin bandwagon, because this is the empire, right. The people in Rome were the last to really appreciate the barbarians were attacking, right, they didn't believe it. Marie Antoinette was in denial up until that last cut of the sword. Right. The people who run the empire are never of the last two to understand. Yeah, even Hitler and his bunker. I think he was still planning to win right before he pulled the trigger to blow his brains
out, right, but the head of denial was still there. So in the US, it's like, no, the US dollar is never going to topple. It's the We're the king. We're never gonna lose. But you know I don't. It's the if, the if the US dollar is what you're hoping is what you're banking. You know, he got some he got
some problems. People look at me like I'm crazy when I make any kind of statement that correlates that though at all, that says something like, you know, I think that you know, we were looking at buying a house and my friend asks, and you know, I think we're just gonna wait like a year. This is just way too volatible market right now for us to be buying a house, and maybe to get those houses at thirty percent off in a year with the way everything's going, and you looked at me
like I was crazy. I mean, what are you talking about? And that's why do you not keep up with what's going on? I mean, yeah, Well, I mean, like I said, this is not where you're gonna find except for the community in America because they need it, because they've been suppressed and oppressed by the dollar for the entire existence here. So they they you know, they're getting it. They get it that this is
where we're going to see a big move. So before we get out of here, first of all, I appreciate you taking the time to come on. I really do. Um. I was wanting to ask you those questions A lot of times are questions I want to know. So I figure I'm pretty average, Joe. I figure if I like somethin or I'm curious about something, there are a lot of other people probably that are curious too. Well. We also have a lot of fun when we're together, Gary,
we're at these various events and stuff. We really usually in the green room hobnobbing and sharing notes and you know, having some fun. And it was a pleasure being on your podcast. Well, I appreciate you coming on the podcast. I really do, and yeah, that's the only issue, you know. I told my wife earlier in the year, I said, I'm going to go to more events this year than I've ever been to, and I had here all set up. I think by now it's going to be
at like ten events. And I've gone to one which I saw you at, was Tones conference. So this year didn't turn out anything like I planned, that's for sure. I appreciate you taking the time though to come on the show. Hopefully I get to see you. It's something soon sounds good. Thank you, my friend. I hope you've enjoyed today's show, and I want to give a big thank you to all my cousins out there for
listening and subscribe. If you haven't subscribed yet, just go to cryptocusins dot com and you'll see the links for all the places that you can subscribe here, and you want to take a second leave a great review or a four star rating. Even while you're at it, I also recommend you go to crypto podcast dot com and see all my other podcasts and websites for the world of bitcoin. There's a lot of no look at. Thanks for listening to
the Crypto Cousins podcast. Please share the show with your friends. They can subscribe by going to cryptocusins dot com slash subscribe, and if you want to know more about Gary, just go to Gary Leland dot com. Make sure and join Gary and all the cryptocusins every week for a new episode of the Crypto Cousins podcast. The Crypto Cousins podcast and the information included in the podcast are not intended as investment advice. Investing in any cryptocurrency is risky and you
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